About OFBiz logo being ownership of ASF

[Jacques Le Roux]

HI All,

This is an *important message* to remind you that if you make available to public a "mirror" of Apache OFBiz web site (http://ofbiz.apache.org/) or an instance of Apache OFBiz,  you should never use the original ofbiz.ico, ofbiz.gif and ofbiz_logo.jpg files (any version of these files, old or present). These are strict ASF proprietary and should never be used by site publicly available ouf of proper ASF infrastructure (the Contegix servers used by Apache OFBiz for that are parts of ASF infra).

PMC members, I put a message at bottom of site main page, please check and if any problems chime in.

Thanks for your attention

Jacques

[Tim Ruppert]

Jacques, as I've said many times on this issue, Contegix is an approved ASF resource for Maven, so they've already been thru the hoops in question.  That being said, I have no documentation saying that they are official for OFBiz at this point, so I can understand this.  Not being able to show our own logo on our own demo server that the ASF cannot support at this point is a total joke and should be brought up in front of the PRC immediately.  

They need to support what we are trying to do with the project themselves, allow a vendor that they have approved for other projects be approved for this one, or get the heck out of the way so that we can help to push the project forward.  Let me know how those conversations go, but consider me very disappointed in this action.

Cheers,
Tim
--
Tim Ruppert
HotWax Media
http://www.hotwaxmedia.com

o:801.649.6594
f:801.649.6595

----- "Jacques Le Roux" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> HI All,
>
> This is an *important message* to remind you that if you make
> available to public a "mirror" of Apache OFBiz web site
> (http://ofbiz.apache.org/) or an instance of Apache OFBiz,  you should
> never use the original ofbiz.ico, ofbiz.gif and ofbiz_logo.jpg files
> (any version of these files, old or present). These are strict ASF
> proprietary and should never be used by site publicly available ouf of
> proper ASF infrastructure (the Contegix servers used by Apache OFBiz
> for that are parts of ASF infra).
>
> PMC members, I put a message at bottom of site main page, please check
> and if any problems chime in.
>
> Thanks for your attention
>
> Jacques

[Jacques Le Roux]

I reverted at Tim's demand (at r766342). Hopefully someone will come with a better way of showing this

The text I propose is

<<This is an important message to remind you that if you make available to public a "mirror" of Apache OFBiz web site

(http://ofbiz.apache.org/) or an instance of Apache OFBiz, you should never use the original ofbiz.ico, ofbiz.gif and

ofbiz_logo.jpg files (any version of these files, old or present). These are strict ASF proprietary and should never be

used by site publicly available ouf of proper ASF infrastructure (the Contegix servers used by Apache OFBiz for that are

parts of ASF infra).<br>

You must also show a prominent disclaimer that states the site is not associated with the Apache Software Foundation.<br>

Thanks for your attention>>

Maybe some English speaking people (mother tongue) may come with a better message also...

Jacques

PS : I think it's our duty to do this to prevent any future conflicts about this subject...

From: "Jacques Le Roux" <[hidden email]>
HI All,

This is an *important message* to remind you that if you make available to public a "mirror" of Apache OFBiz web site
(http://ofbiz.apache.org/) or an instance of Apache OFBiz,  you should never use the original ofbiz.ico, ofbiz.gif and
ofbiz_logo.jpg files (any version of these files, old or present). These are strict ASF proprietary and should never be used by site
publicly available ouf of proper ASF infrastructure (the Contegix servers used by Apache OFBiz for that are parts of ASF infra).

PMC members, I put a message at bottom of site main page, please check and if any problems chime in.

Thanks for your attention

Jacques

[Tim Ruppert]

I totally agree that we need to both:

1. Deal with their demands on the subject
2. Tease out why they are limiting us.

My vote, not that it's binding in any way, is to proceed with #2 while we come up with something that will work for us on #1.  Right now - having dead links and text jammed into the footer doesn't seem like a reasonable way forward to me - especially with all the community has put into making this look more professional.  Let's keep pushing this and figure a proper way forward.

Cheers,
Tim
--
Tim Ruppert
HotWax Media
http://www.hotwaxmedia.com

o:801.649.6594
f:801.649.6595

----- "Jacques Le Roux" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I reverted at Tim's demand (at r766342). Hopefully someone will come
> with a better way of showing this
>
> The text I propose is
>
> <<This is an important message to remind you that if you make
> available to public a "mirror" of Apache OFBiz web site
>
> (http://ofbiz.apache.org/) or an instance of Apache OFBiz, you should
> never use the original ofbiz.ico, ofbiz.gif and
>
> ofbiz_logo.jpg files (any version of these files, old or present).
> These are strict ASF proprietary and should never be
>
> used by site publicly available ouf of proper ASF infrastructure (the
> Contegix servers used by Apache OFBiz for that are
>
> parts of ASF infra).<br>
>
> You must also show a prominent disclaimer that states the site is not
> associated with the Apache Software Foundation.<br>
>
> Thanks for your attention>>
>
> Maybe some English speaking people (mother tongue) may come with a
> better message also...
>
> Jacques
>
> PS : I think it's our duty to do this to prevent any future conflicts
> about this subject...
>
> From: "Jacques Le Roux" <[hidden email]>
> HI All,
>
> This is an *important message* to remind you that if you make
> available to public a "mirror" of Apache OFBiz web site
> (http://ofbiz.apache.org/) or an instance of Apache OFBiz,  you should
> never use the original ofbiz.ico, ofbiz.gif and
> ofbiz_logo.jpg files (any version of these files, old or present).
> These are strict ASF proprietary and should never be used by site
> publicly available ouf of proper ASF infrastructure (the Contegix
> servers used by Apache OFBiz for that are parts of ASF infra).
>
> PMC members, I put a message at bottom of site main page, please check
> and if any problems chime in.
>
> Thanks for your attention
>
> Jacques

[Tim Ruppert]

Here I put in the information from each of the threads so they could be read easily.  The biggest issue I have with this is that entire idea of the ASF license in general.  If anyone can take all of the code that is provided here and go do whatever they want with it - how can the ASF say that we can't show the logo / assets that we built and donated to the community?  That's amazing that they would even care to tell you the truth.

I more than understand that they would want a disclaimer on stuff that they're not managing - and I'll be the first person to push that thru - but not being able to show the logo, etc - unless I'm really mistaken - is a bit too far IMO.  Anyways looking forward to more discussion on this.  Thanks everyone for humoring me.

Cheers,
Tim
--
Tim Ruppert
HotWax Media
http://www.hotwaxmedia.com

o:801.649.6594
f:801.649.6595

----- "Tim Ruppert" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I totally agree that we need to both:
>
> 1. Deal with their demands on the subject
> 2. Tease out why they are limiting us.
>
> My vote, not that it's binding in any way, is to proceed with #2 while
> we come up with something that will work for us on #1.  Right now -
> having dead links and text jammed into the footer doesn't seem like a
> reasonable way forward to me - especially with all the community has
> put into making this look more professional.  Let's keep pushing this
> and figure a proper way forward.
>
> Cheers,
> Tim
> --
> Tim Ruppert
> HotWax Media
> http://www.hotwaxmedia.com
>
> o:801.649.6594
> f:801.649.6595
>
> ----- "Jacques Le Roux" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > I reverted at Tim's demand (at r766342). Hopefully someone will
> come
> > with a better way of showing this
> >
> > The text I propose is
> >
> > <<This is an important message to remind you that if you make
> > available to public a "mirror" of Apache OFBiz web site
> >
> > (http://ofbiz.apache.org/) or an instance of Apache OFBiz, you
> should
> > never use the original ofbiz.ico, ofbiz.gif and
> >
> > ofbiz_logo.jpg files (any version of these files, old or present).
> > These are strict ASF proprietary and should never be
> >
> > used by site publicly available ouf of proper ASF infrastructure
> (the
> > Contegix servers used by Apache OFBiz for that are
> >
> > parts of ASF infra).<br>
> >
> > You must also show a prominent disclaimer that states the site is
> not
> > associated with the Apache Software Foundation.<br>
> >
> > Thanks for your attention>>
> >
> > Maybe some English speaking people (mother tongue) may come with a
> > better message also...
> >
> > Jacques
> >
> > PS : I think it's our duty to do this to prevent any future
> conflicts
> > about this subject...

----- "Tim Ruppert" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Jacques, as I've said many times on this issue, Contegix is an
> approved ASF resource for Maven, so they've already been thru the
> hoops in question.  That being said, I have no documentation saying
> that they are official for OFBiz at this point, so I can understand
> this.  Not being able to show our own logo on our own demo server that
> the ASF cannot support at this point is a total joke and should be
> brought up in front of the PRC immediately.  
>
> They need to support what we are trying to do with the project
> themselves, allow a vendor that they have approved for other projects
> be approved for this one, or get the heck out of the way so that we
> can help to push the project forward.  Let me know how those
> conversations go, but consider me very disappointed in this action.
>
> Cheers,
> Tim
> --
> Tim Ruppert
> HotWax Media
> http://www.hotwaxmedia.com
>
> o:801.649.6594
> f:801.649.6595
>
> ----- "Jacques Le Roux" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > HI All,
> >
> > This is an *important message* to remind you that if you make
> > available to public a "mirror" of Apache OFBiz web site
> > (http://ofbiz.apache.org/) or an instance of Apache OFBiz,  you
> should
> > never use the original ofbiz.ico, ofbiz.gif and ofbiz_logo.jpg
> files
> > (any version of these files, old or present). These are strict ASF
> > proprietary and should never be used by site publicly available ouf
> of
> > proper ASF infrastructure (the Contegix servers used by Apache
> OFBiz
> > for that are parts of ASF infra).
> >
> > PMC members, I put a message at bottom of site main page, please
> check
> > and if any problems chime in.
> >
> > Thanks for your attention
> >
> > Jacques

[Ross Gardler]

2009/4/18 Tim Ruppert <[hidden email]>:
> Here I put in the information from each of the threads so they could be read easily.  The biggest issue I have with this is that entire idea of the ASF license in general.  If anyone can take all of the code that is provided here and go do whatever they want with it - how can the ASF say that we can't show the logo / assets that we built and donated to the community?  That's amazing that they would even care to tell you the truth.

Read the licence:

"6. Trademarks. This License does not grant permission to use the
trade names, trademarks, service marks, or product names of the
Licensor, except as required for reasonable and customary use in
describing the origin of the Work and reproducing the content of the
NOTICE file. "

http://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0

It's about protecting the Apache brand from misuse. There are plenty
of people out there who would like to take the code and claim it is
there own without contributing back to the donating project.

There is nothing stopping someone taking the product, calling it
SuperBiz and prominently saying "SuperBiz is based on the ApacheOfBiz
project. SuperBiz.com are contributors to Apache OfBiz."


>
> I more than understand that they would want a disclaimer on stuff that they're not managing - and I'll be the first person to push that thru - but not being able to show the logo, etc - unless I'm really mistaken - is a bit too far IMO.  Anyways looking forward to more discussion on this.  Thanks everyone for humoring me.

The moment you it is served from non ASF hardware the ASF no longer
have any control over the management of that resource. Therefore there
can be no guarantee of the good management we find in ASF projects.

Ross

>
> Cheers,
> Tim
> --
> Tim Ruppert
> HotWax Media
> http://www.hotwaxmedia.com
>
> o:801.649.6594
> f:801.649.6595
>
> ----- "Tim Ruppert" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I totally agree that we need to both:
>>
>> 1. Deal with their demands on the subject
>> 2. Tease out why they are limiting us.
>>
>> My vote, not that it's binding in any way, is to proceed with #2 while
>> we come up with something that will work for us on #1.  Right now -
>> having dead links and text jammed into the footer doesn't seem like a
>> reasonable way forward to me - especially with all the community has
>> put into making this look more professional.  Let's keep pushing this
>> and figure a proper way forward.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Tim
>> --
>> Tim Ruppert
>> HotWax Media
>> http://www.hotwaxmedia.com
>>
>> o:801.649.6594
>> f:801.649.6595
>>
>> ----- "Jacques Le Roux" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> > I reverted at Tim's demand (at r766342). Hopefully someone will
>> come
>> > with a better way of showing this
>> >
>> > The text I propose is
>> >
>> > <<This is an important message to remind you that if you make
>> > available to public a "mirror" of Apache OFBiz web site
>> >
>> > (http://ofbiz.apache.org/) or an instance of Apache OFBiz, you
>> should
>> > never use the original ofbiz.ico, ofbiz.gif and
>> >
>> > ofbiz_logo.jpg files (any version of these files, old or present).
>> > These are strict ASF proprietary and should never be
>> >
>> > used by site publicly available ouf of proper ASF infrastructure
>> (the
>> > Contegix servers used by Apache OFBiz for that are
>> >
>> > parts of ASF infra).<br>
>> >
>> > You must also show a prominent disclaimer that states the site is
>> not
>> > associated with the Apache Software Foundation.<br>
>> >
>> > Thanks for your attention>>
>> >
>> > Maybe some English speaking people (mother tongue) may come with a
>> > better message also...
>> >
>> > Jacques
>> >
>> > PS : I think it's our duty to do this to prevent any future
>> conflicts
>> > about this subject...
>
> ----- "Tim Ruppert" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Jacques, as I've said many times on this issue, Contegix is an
>> approved ASF resource for Maven, so they've already been thru the
>> hoops in question.  That being said, I have no documentation saying
>> that they are official for OFBiz at this point, so I can understand
>> this.  Not being able to show our own logo on our own demo server that
>> the ASF cannot support at this point is a total joke and should be
>> brought up in front of the PRC immediately.
>>
>> They need to support what we are trying to do with the project
>> themselves, allow a vendor that they have approved for other projects
>> be approved for this one, or get the heck out of the way so that we
>> can help to push the project forward.  Let me know how those
>> conversations go, but consider me very disappointed in this action.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Tim
>> --
>> Tim Ruppert
>> HotWax Media
>> http://www.hotwaxmedia.com
>>
>> o:801.649.6594
>> f:801.649.6595
>>
>> ----- "Jacques Le Roux" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> > HI All,
>> >
>> > This is an *important message* to remind you that if you make
>> > available to public a "mirror" of Apache OFBiz web site
>> > (http://ofbiz.apache.org/) or an instance of Apache OFBiz,  you
>> should
>> > never use the original ofbiz.ico, ofbiz.gif and ofbiz_logo.jpg
>> files
>> > (any version of these files, old or present). These are strict ASF
>> > proprietary and should never be used by site publicly available ouf
>> of
>> > proper ASF infrastructure (the Contegix servers used by Apache
>> OFBiz
>> > for that are parts of ASF infra).
>> >
>> > PMC members, I put a message at bottom of site main page, please
>> check
>> > and if any problems chime in.
>> >
>> > Thanks for your attention
>> >
>> > Jacques
>

--
Ross Gardler

OSS Watch - supporting open source in education and research
http://www.oss-watch.ac.uk

[Jacques Le Roux]

Tim,

The point is (at least as I have understood) that for public accessible servers (no problems if you run it locally)
1) If you use a server part of ASF infrasctructure, you can use the Apache OFBiz logo images and you don't need to show a
disclaimer. This is for instance true for the Contegix server we use currently for demos (or at least partially and in process to be
completly true, if I have well followed news) and of course for the Apache server where http://ofbiz.apache.org/ stays.
2) If you don't use a server part of ASF infrasctructure, you cant' use the Apache OFBiz logo images and you need to show a
disclaimer. This is true for alternative demo servers for instance and on mine I have used this policy since Ted Husted's demand.

Hope it clarify things

Jacques

From: "Tim Ruppert" <[hidden email]>

> Here I put in the information from each of the threads so they could be read easily.  The biggest issue I have with this is that
> entire idea of the ASF license in general.  If anyone can take all of the code that is provided here and go do whatever they want
> with it - how can the ASF say that we can't show the logo / assets that we built and donated to the community?  That's amazing
> that they would even care to tell you the truth.
>
> I more than understand that they would want a disclaimer on stuff that they're not managing - and I'll be the first person to push
> that thru - but not being able to show the logo, etc - unless I'm really mistaken - is a bit too far IMO.  Anyways looking forward
> to more discussion on this.  Thanks everyone for humoring me.
>
> Cheers,
> Tim
> --
> Tim Ruppert
> HotWax Media
> http://www.hotwaxmedia.com
>
> o:801.649.6594
> f:801.649.6595
>
> ----- "Tim Ruppert" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I totally agree that we need to both:
>>
>> 1. Deal with their demands on the subject
>> 2. Tease out why they are limiting us.
>>
>> My vote, not that it's binding in any way, is to proceed with #2 while
>> we come up with something that will work for us on #1.  Right now -
>> having dead links and text jammed into the footer doesn't seem like a
>> reasonable way forward to me - especially with all the community has
>> put into making this look more professional.  Let's keep pushing this
>> and figure a proper way forward.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Tim
>> --
>> Tim Ruppert
>> HotWax Media
>> http://www.hotwaxmedia.com
>>
>> o:801.649.6594
>> f:801.649.6595
>>
>> ----- "Jacques Le Roux" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> > I reverted at Tim's demand (at r766342). Hopefully someone will
>> come
>> > with a better way of showing this
>> >
>> > The text I propose is
>> >
>> > <<This is an important message to remind you that if you make
>> > available to public a "mirror" of Apache OFBiz web site
>> >
>> > (http://ofbiz.apache.org/) or an instance of Apache OFBiz, you
>> should
>> > never use the original ofbiz.ico, ofbiz.gif and
>> >
>> > ofbiz_logo.jpg files (any version of these files, old or present).
>> > These are strict ASF proprietary and should never be
>> >
>> > used by site publicly available ouf of proper ASF infrastructure
>> (the
>> > Contegix servers used by Apache OFBiz for that are
>> >
>> > parts of ASF infra).<br>
>> >
>> > You must also show a prominent disclaimer that states the site is
>> not
>> > associated with the Apache Software Foundation.<br>
>> >
>> > Thanks for your attention>>
>> >
>> > Maybe some English speaking people (mother tongue) may come with a
>> > better message also...
>> >
>> > Jacques
>> >
>> > PS : I think it's our duty to do this to prevent any future
>> conflicts
>> > about this subject...
>
> ----- "Tim Ruppert" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Jacques, as I've said many times on this issue, Contegix is an
>> approved ASF resource for Maven, so they've already been thru the
>> hoops in question.  That being said, I have no documentation saying
>> that they are official for OFBiz at this point, so I can understand
>> this.  Not being able to show our own logo on our own demo server that
>> the ASF cannot support at this point is a total joke and should be
>> brought up in front of the PRC immediately.
>>
>> They need to support what we are trying to do with the project
>> themselves, allow a vendor that they have approved for other projects
>> be approved for this one, or get the heck out of the way so that we
>> can help to push the project forward.  Let me know how those
>> conversations go, but consider me very disappointed in this action.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Tim
>> --
>> Tim Ruppert
>> HotWax Media
>> http://www.hotwaxmedia.com
>>
>> o:801.649.6594
>> f:801.649.6595
>>
>> ----- "Jacques Le Roux" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> > HI All,
>> >
>> > This is an *important message* to remind you that if you make
>> > available to public a "mirror" of Apache OFBiz web site
>> > (http://ofbiz.apache.org/) or an instance of Apache OFBiz,  you
>> should
>> > never use the original ofbiz.ico, ofbiz.gif and ofbiz_logo.jpg
>> files
>> > (any version of these files, old or present). These are strict ASF
>> > proprietary and should never be used by site publicly available ouf
>> of
>> > proper ASF infrastructure (the Contegix servers used by Apache
>> OFBiz
>> > for that are parts of ASF infra).
>> >
>> > PMC members, I put a message at bottom of site main page, please
>> check
>> > and if any problems chime in.
>> >
>> > Thanks for your attention
>> >
>> > Jacques
>

[Tim Ruppert]

I hear you jacques - it doesn't make it any less ridiculous IMHO if they haven't provided the infra we need so we've got a server, hosted by an approved vendor, where we are making things happen for the project.

Cheers,
Tim
--
Tim Ruppert
HotWax Media
http://www.hotwaxmedia.com

o:801.649.6594
f:801.649.6595

----- Jacques Le Roux <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Tim,
>
> The point is (at least as I have understood) that for public accessible servers (no problems if you run it locally)
> 1) If you use a server part of ASF infrasctructure, you can use the Apache OFBiz logo images and you don't need to show a
> disclaimer. This is for instance true for the Contegix server we use currently for demos (or at least partially and in process to be
> completly true, if I have well followed news) and of course for the Apache server where http://ofbiz.apache.org/ stays.
> 2) If you don't use a server part of ASF infrasctructure, you cant' use the Apache OFBiz logo images and you need to show a
> disclaimer. This is true for alternative demo servers for instance and on mine I have used this policy since Ted Husted's demand.
>
> Hope it clarify things
>
> Jacques
>
> From: "Tim Ruppert" <[hidden email]>
> > Here I put in the information from each of the threads so they could be read easily.  The biggest issue I have with this is that
> > entire idea of the ASF license in general.  If anyone can take all of the code that is provided here and go do whatever they want
> > with it - how can the ASF say that we can't show the logo / assets that we built and donated to the community?  That's amazing
> > that they would even care to tell you the truth.
> >
> > I more than understand that they would want a disclaimer on stuff that they're not managing - and I'll be the first person to push
> > that thru - but not being able to show the logo, etc - unless I'm really mistaken - is a bit too far IMO.  Anyways looking forward
> > to more discussion on this.  Thanks everyone for humoring me.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Tim
> > --
> > Tim Ruppert
> > HotWax Media
> > http://www.hotwaxmedia.com
> >
> > o:801.649.6594
> > f:801.649.6595
> >
> > ----- "Tim Ruppert" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >> I totally agree that we need to both:
> >>
> >> 1. Deal with their demands on the subject
> >> 2. Tease out why they are limiting us.
> >>
> >> My vote, not that it's binding in any way, is to proceed with #2 while
> >> we come up with something that will work for us on #1.  Right now -
> >> having dead links and text jammed into the footer doesn't seem like a
> >> reasonable way forward to me - especially with all the community has
> >> put into making this look more professional.  Let's keep pushing this
> >> and figure a proper way forward.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Tim
> >> --
> >> Tim Ruppert
> >> HotWax Media
> >> http://www.hotwaxmedia.com
> >>
> >> o:801.649.6594
> >> f:801.649.6595
> >>
> >> ----- "Jacques Le Roux" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>
> >> > I reverted at Tim's demand (at r766342). Hopefully someone will
> >> come
> >> > with a better way of showing this
> >> >
> >> > The text I propose is
> >> >
> >> > <<This is an important message to remind you that if you make
> >> > available to public a "mirror" of Apache OFBiz web site
> >> >
> >> > (http://ofbiz.apache.org/) or an instance of Apache OFBiz, you
> >> should
> >> > never use the original ofbiz.ico, ofbiz.gif and
> >> >
> >> > ofbiz_logo.jpg files (any version of these files, old or present).
> >> > These are strict ASF proprietary and should never be
> >> >
> >> > used by site publicly available ouf of proper ASF infrastructure
> >> (the
> >> > Contegix servers used by Apache OFBiz for that are
> >> >
> >> > parts of ASF infra).<br>
> >> >
> >> > You must also show a prominent disclaimer that states the site is
> >> not
> >> > associated with the Apache Software Foundation.<br>
> >> >
> >> > Thanks for your attention>>
> >> >
> >> > Maybe some English speaking people (mother tongue) may come with a
> >> > better message also...
> >> >
> >> > Jacques
> >> >
> >> > PS : I think it's our duty to do this to prevent any future
> >> conflicts
> >> > about this subject...
> >
> > ----- "Tim Ruppert" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >> Jacques, as I've said many times on this issue, Contegix is an
> >> approved ASF resource for Maven, so they've already been thru the
> >> hoops in question.  That being said, I have no documentation saying
> >> that they are official for OFBiz at this point, so I can understand
> >> this.  Not being able to show our own logo on our own demo server that
> >> the ASF cannot support at this point is a total joke and should be
> >> brought up in front of the PRC immediately.
> >>
> >> They need to support what we are trying to do with the project
> >> themselves, allow a vendor that they have approved for other projects
> >> be approved for this one, or get the heck out of the way so that we
> >> can help to push the project forward.  Let me know how those
> >> conversations go, but consider me very disappointed in this action.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Tim
> >> --
> >> Tim Ruppert
> >> HotWax Media
> >> http://www.hotwaxmedia.com
> >>
> >> o:801.649.6594
> >> f:801.649.6595
> >>
> >> ----- "Jacques Le Roux" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>
> >> > HI All,
> >> >
> >> > This is an *important message* to remind you that if you make
> >> > available to public a "mirror" of Apache OFBiz web site
> >> > (http://ofbiz.apache.org/) or an instance of Apache OFBiz,  you
> >> should
> >> > never use the original ofbiz.ico, ofbiz.gif and ofbiz_logo.jpg
> >> files
> >> > (any version of these files, old or present). These are strict ASF
> >> > proprietary and should never be used by site publicly available ouf
> >> of
> >> > proper ASF infrastructure (the Contegix servers used by Apache
> >> OFBiz
> >> > for that are parts of ASF infra).
> >> >
> >> > PMC members, I put a message at bottom of site main page, please
> >> check
> >> > and if any problems chime in.
> >> >
> >> > Thanks for your attention
> >> >
> >> > Jacques
> >
>
>

[Tim Ruppert]

Thanks Ross - but this is not about whether or not I have an accurate understanding of the license, it's about whether or not it makes sense in any way - or if it actually helps the foundation push it's projects along.  If the ASF would happily manage all of the infrastructure that we need at a project level to provide the community - this would not be an issue - and is likely where this discussion ultimately needs to go.

As for whether or not we are hosting / providing services for this project that is as good as what is being provided elsewhere - I'd have to say we're doing a helluva good job at filling in where it's not provided yet :)

I'm going to be pushing two fronts on this because I think the fact that someone brought this up to us is a joke:

1. Trying to get the ASF infrastructure interested in helping us produce the same quality of documentation / demos / logs / builds availability that we are currently providing outside of the umbrella.

2. In parallel getting the box that is being donated (by an already approved Vendor supplying ASF resources for Maven) as an official resource, so this will end.

Looking forward to pushing this along these two paths in parallel so that this is no longer an issue for the project.

Cheers,
Tim
--
Tim Ruppert
HotWax Media
http://www.hotwaxmedia.com

o:801.649.6594
f:801.649.6595

----- "Ross Gardler" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> 2009/4/18 Tim Ruppert <[hidden email]>:
> > Here I put in the information from each of the threads so they could
> be read easily.  The biggest issue I have with this is that entire
> idea of the ASF license in general.  If anyone can take all of the
> code that is provided here and go do whatever they want with it - how
> can the ASF say that we can't show the logo / assets that we built and
> donated to the community?  That's amazing that they would even care to
> tell you the truth.
>
> Read the licence:
>
> "6. Trademarks. This License does not grant permission to use the
> trade names, trademarks, service marks, or product names of the
> Licensor, except as required for reasonable and customary use in
> describing the origin of the Work and reproducing the content of the
> NOTICE file. "
>
> http://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0
>
> It's about protecting the Apache brand from misuse. There are plenty
> of people out there who would like to take the code and claim it is
> there own without contributing back to the donating project.
>
> There is nothing stopping someone taking the product, calling it
> SuperBiz and prominently saying "SuperBiz is based on the ApacheOfBiz
> project. SuperBiz.com are contributors to Apache OfBiz."
>
>
> >
> > I more than understand that they would want a disclaimer on stuff
> that they're not managing - and I'll be the first person to push that
> thru - but not being able to show the logo, etc - unless I'm really
> mistaken - is a bit too far IMO.  Anyways looking forward to more
> discussion on this.  Thanks everyone for humoring me.
>
> The moment you it is served from non ASF hardware the ASF no longer
> have any control over the management of that resource. Therefore
> there
> can be no guarantee of the good management we find in ASF projects.
>
> Ross
>
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Tim
> > --
> > Tim Ruppert
> > HotWax Media
> > http://www.hotwaxmedia.com
> >
> > o:801.649.6594
> > f:801.649.6595
> >
> > ----- "Tim Ruppert" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >> I totally agree that we need to both:
> >>
> >> 1. Deal with their demands on the subject
> >> 2. Tease out why they are limiting us.
> >>
> >> My vote, not that it's binding in any way, is to proceed with #2
> while
> >> we come up with something that will work for us on #1.  Right now
> -
> >> having dead links and text jammed into the footer doesn't seem like
> a
> >> reasonable way forward to me - especially with all the community
> has
> >> put into making this look more professional.  Let's keep pushing
> this
> >> and figure a proper way forward.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Tim
> >> --
> >> Tim Ruppert
> >> HotWax Media
> >> http://www.hotwaxmedia.com
> >>
> >> o:801.649.6594
> >> f:801.649.6595
> >>
> >> ----- "Jacques Le Roux" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>
> >> > I reverted at Tim's demand (at r766342). Hopefully someone will
> >> come
> >> > with a better way of showing this
> >> >
> >> > The text I propose is
> >> >
> >> > <<This is an important message to remind you that if you make
> >> > available to public a "mirror" of Apache OFBiz web site
> >> >
> >> > (http://ofbiz.apache.org/) or an instance of Apache OFBiz, you
> >> should
> >> > never use the original ofbiz.ico, ofbiz.gif and
> >> >
> >> > ofbiz_logo.jpg files (any version of these files, old or
> present).
> >> > These are strict ASF proprietary and should never be
> >> >
> >> > used by site publicly available ouf of proper ASF infrastructure
> >> (the
> >> > Contegix servers used by Apache OFBiz for that are
> >> >
> >> > parts of ASF infra).<br>
> >> >
> >> > You must also show a prominent disclaimer that states the site
> is
> >> not
> >> > associated with the Apache Software Foundation.<br>
> >> >
> >> > Thanks for your attention>>
> >> >
> >> > Maybe some English speaking people (mother tongue) may come with
> a
> >> > better message also...
> >> >
> >> > Jacques
> >> >
> >> > PS : I think it's our duty to do this to prevent any future
> >> conflicts
> >> > about this subject...
> >
> > ----- "Tim Ruppert" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >> Jacques, as I've said many times on this issue, Contegix is an
> >> approved ASF resource for Maven, so they've already been thru the
> >> hoops in question.  That being said, I have no documentation
> saying
> >> that they are official for OFBiz at this point, so I can
> understand
> >> this.  Not being able to show our own logo on our own demo server
> that
> >> the ASF cannot support at this point is a total joke and should be
> >> brought up in front of the PRC immediately.
> >>
> >> They need to support what we are trying to do with the project
> >> themselves, allow a vendor that they have approved for other
> projects
> >> be approved for this one, or get the heck out of the way so that
> we
> >> can help to push the project forward.  Let me know how those
> >> conversations go, but consider me very disappointed in this
> action.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Tim
> >> --
> >> Tim Ruppert
> >> HotWax Media
> >> http://www.hotwaxmedia.com
> >>
> >> o:801.649.6594
> >> f:801.649.6595
> >>
> >> ----- "Jacques Le Roux" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>
> >> > HI All,
> >> >
> >> > This is an *important message* to remind you that if you make
> >> > available to public a "mirror" of Apache OFBiz web site
> >> > (http://ofbiz.apache.org/) or an instance of Apache OFBiz,  you
> >> should
> >> > never use the original ofbiz.ico, ofbiz.gif and ofbiz_logo.jpg
> >> files
> >> > (any version of these files, old or present). These are strict
> ASF
> >> > proprietary and should never be used by site publicly available
> ouf
> >> of
> >> > proper ASF infrastructure (the Contegix servers used by Apache
> >> OFBiz
> >> > for that are parts of ASF infra).
> >> >
> >> > PMC members, I put a message at bottom of site main page, please
> >> check
> >> > and if any problems chime in.
> >> >
> >> > Thanks for your attention
> >> >
> >> > Jacques
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Ross Gardler
>
> OSS Watch - supporting open source in education and research
> http://www.oss-watch.ac.uk

[BJ Freeman]

So the default theme can not be used on mirror for the Demo's?

Jacques Le Roux sent the following on 4/18/2009 7:41 AM:
> HI All,
>
> This is an *important message* to remind you that if you make available to public a "mirror" of Apache OFBiz web site (http://ofbiz.apache.org/) or an instance of Apache OFBiz,  you should never use the original ofbiz.ico, ofbiz.gif and ofbiz_logo.jpg files (any version of these files, old or present). These are strict ASF proprietary and should never be used by site publicly available ouf of proper ASF infrastructure (the Contegix servers used by Apache OFBiz for that are parts of ASF infra).
>
> PMC members, I put a message at bottom of site main page, please check and if any problems chime in.
>
> Thanks for your attention
>
> Jacques

[Jacques Le Roux]

From: "Ross Gardler" <[hidden email]>
[snip]
> It's about protecting the Apache brand from misuse. There are plenty
> of people out there who would like to take the code and claim it is
> there own without contributing back to the donating project.
>
> There is nothing stopping someone taking the product, calling it
> SuperBiz and prominently saying "SuperBiz is based on the ApacheOfBiz
> project. SuperBiz.com are contributors to Apache OfBiz."
[snip]

In my opininon this is a real problem and not the OFBiz demo server issue that, I think, will soon resolve since Contegix is already
an approved ASF infra provider for Maven (so why not for OFBiz ?).

For instance what is a contributor ? You can be considered a contributor because you made a very smal contribution 5 years ago (I
don't mean this case exists for OFBiz), isn'it ?

Jacques

[Jacques Le Roux]

Tim,

To be clear on this issue, I was not thinking about Contegix server, for me this will be resolved soon, but at what I called
"mirror" sites or non official demo servers. For me a "mirror" site is something like
http://www.ofbiz.fr/
http://www.ofbiz.de/
http://www.ofbiz.nl
etc. (I'm aware of theses sites because they were still in the community section on the OFBIz site main page one week ago, and BTW I
think this is sometning we should discuss also...)

As you can see, the 1st site (which is actually supported by the Neogia community) as answered my request some time ago : they don't
use the official Apache OFBIz logo (at list the one who used at this time) but the "Powered by OFBiz" image which is allowed. BTW my
request was not complete and I should have asked also for a disclaimer (not being ASF infra). So far that's what Ted Husted asked
referring to previous disussions at PRC (Apache Public Relations Committee). To be clear, at this stage I don't ask if it's right or
not, I comply. Then I can discuss...

The 2d and 3d site do not comply but I can't blame then since I made my request directly to the Neogia community but I'm not sure I
did the same to the other communities (and I'm not even sure that they are real communities, I mean a group of people and not a sole
person who takes the initiative).

I personnaly think that we should not allow this kind of "mirror" sites (not real mirrors I mean. Real mirrors should be allowed. I
may define real  mirrors if needed but I think it's obvious) but that we should provide, at least, an option for these communities
to write their own page(s) on the official site in their own language (to attract more users of these countries). Something like
Bruno Busco made for the eCommerce multiflex theme : classic with countries flags.

This said for "mirror" sites, It's approximatively the same for demo servers. I did it for mine (Les7arts) at
http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBIZ/Alternative+Demo+Servers. It was easier before 9.04 since now we have themes with different
version of logos. But I will do it also for the 9.04 ASAP...

BTW, for the sake of consistency, we will need a "Powered by OFBiz" image for the new logo too...

Hope this help to clarify the situation

Jacques


From: "Tim Ruppert" <[hidden email]>

> Jacques, as I've said many times on this issue, Contegix is an approved ASF resource for Maven, so they've already been thru the
> hoops in question.  That being said, I have no documentation saying that they are official for OFBiz at this point, so I can
> understand this.  Not being able to show our own logo on our own demo server that the ASF cannot support at this point is a total
> joke and should be brought up in front of the PRC immediately.
>
> They need to support what we are trying to do with the project themselves, allow a vendor that they have approved for other
> projects be approved for this one, or get the heck out of the way so that we can help to push the project forward.  Let me know
> how those conversations go, but consider me very disappointed in this action.
>
> Cheers,
> Tim
> --
> Tim Ruppert
> HotWax Media
> http://www.hotwaxmedia.com
>
> o:801.649.6594
> f:801.649.6595
>
> ----- "Jacques Le Roux" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> HI All,
>>
>> This is an *important message* to remind you that if you make
>> available to public a "mirror" of Apache OFBiz web site
>> (http://ofbiz.apache.org/) or an instance of Apache OFBiz,  you should
>> never use the original ofbiz.ico, ofbiz.gif and ofbiz_logo.jpg files
>> (any version of these files, old or present). These are strict ASF
>> proprietary and should never be used by site publicly available ouf of
>> proper ASF infrastructure (the Contegix servers used by Apache OFBiz
>> for that are parts of ASF infra).
>>
>> PMC members, I put a message at bottom of site main page, please check
>> and if any problems chime in.
>>
>> Thanks for your attention
>>
>> Jacques
>

[Jacques Le Roux]

Hi Bj,

Please see my new more elaborated explanation on the dev ML.

To resume : out of ASF material infrastructure you can't use an OFBiz logo (old or new, we have already an history of 3 logos, 2
being ASF's fo sure), you must provide a disclaimer (as the one here http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBIZ/Alternative+Demo+Servers)
and you may use a "Powered by OFBiz" logo if you want.

Thanks

Jacques

From: "BJ Freeman" <[hidden email]>

> So the default theme can not be used on mirror for the Demo's?
>
> Jacques Le Roux sent the following on 4/18/2009 7:41 AM:
>> HI All,
>>
>> This is an *important message* to remind you that if you make available to public a "mirror" of Apache OFBiz web site
>> (http://ofbiz.apache.org/) or an instance of Apache OFBiz,  you should never use the original ofbiz.ico, ofbiz.gif and
>> ofbiz_logo.jpg files (any version of these files, old or present). These are strict ASF proprietary and should never be used by
>> site publicly available ouf of proper ASF infrastructure (the Contegix servers used by Apache OFBiz for that are parts of ASF
>> infra).
>>
>> PMC members, I put a message at bottom of site main page, please check and if any problems chime in.
>>
>> Thanks for your attention
>>
>> Jacques
>

[Tim Ruppert]

Thanks for the clarification Jacques - much appreciated.

Cheers,
Tim
--
Tim Ruppert
HotWax Media
http://www.hotwaxmedia.com

o:801.649.6594
f:801.649.6595

----- "Jacques Le Roux" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Tim,
>
> To be clear on this issue, I was not thinking about Contegix server,
> for me this will be resolved soon, but at what I called
> "mirror" sites or non official demo servers. For me a "mirror" site is
> something like
> http://www.ofbiz.fr/
> http://www.ofbiz.de/
> http://www.ofbiz.nl
> etc. (I'm aware of theses sites because they were still in the
> community section on the OFBIz site main page one week ago, and BTW I
>
> think this is sometning we should discuss also...)
>
> As you can see, the 1st site (which is actually supported by the
> Neogia community) as answered my request some time ago : they don't
> use the official Apache OFBIz logo (at list the one who used at this
> time) but the "Powered by OFBiz" image which is allowed. BTW my
> request was not complete and I should have asked also for a disclaimer
> (not being ASF infra). So far that's what Ted Husted asked
> referring to previous disussions at PRC (Apache Public Relations
> Committee). To be clear, at this stage I don't ask if it's right or
> not, I comply. Then I can discuss...
>
> The 2d and 3d site do not comply but I can't blame then since I made
> my request directly to the Neogia community but I'm not sure I
> did the same to the other communities (and I'm not even sure that they
> are real communities, I mean a group of people and not a sole
> person who takes the initiative).
>
> I personnaly think that we should not allow this kind of "mirror"
> sites (not real mirrors I mean. Real mirrors should be allowed. I
> may define real  mirrors if needed but I think it's obvious) but that
> we should provide, at least, an option for these communities
> to write their own page(s) on the official site in their own language
> (to attract more users of these countries). Something like
> Bruno Busco made for the eCommerce multiflex theme : classic with
> countries flags.
>
> This said for "mirror" sites, It's approximatively the same for demo
> servers. I did it for mine (Les7arts) at
> http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBIZ/Alternative+Demo+Servers. It was
> easier before 9.04 since now we have themes with different
> version of logos. But I will do it also for the 9.04 ASAP...
>
> BTW, for the sake of consistency, we will need a "Powered by OFBiz"
> image for the new logo too...
>
> Hope this help to clarify the situation
>
> Jacques
>
>
> From: "Tim Ruppert" <[hidden email]>
> > Jacques, as I've said many times on this issue, Contegix is an
> approved ASF resource for Maven, so they've already been thru the
> > hoops in question.  That being said, I have no documentation saying
> that they are official for OFBiz at this point, so I can
> > understand this.  Not being able to show our own logo on our own
> demo server that the ASF cannot support at this point is a total
> > joke and should be brought up in front of the PRC immediately.
> >
> > They need to support what we are trying to do with the project
> themselves, allow a vendor that they have approved for other
> > projects be approved for this one, or get the heck out of the way so
> that we can help to push the project forward.  Let me know
> > how those conversations go, but consider me very disappointed in
> this action.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Tim
> > --
> > Tim Ruppert
> > HotWax Media
> > http://www.hotwaxmedia.com
> >
> > o:801.649.6594
> > f:801.649.6595
> >
> > ----- "Jacques Le Roux" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >> HI All,
> >>
> >> This is an *important message* to remind you that if you make
> >> available to public a "mirror" of Apache OFBiz web site
> >> (http://ofbiz.apache.org/) or an instance of Apache OFBiz,  you
> should
> >> never use the original ofbiz.ico, ofbiz.gif and ofbiz_logo.jpg
> files
> >> (any version of these files, old or present). These are strict ASF
> >> proprietary and should never be used by site publicly available ouf
> of
> >> proper ASF infrastructure (the Contegix servers used by Apache
> OFBiz
> >> for that are parts of ASF infra).
> >>
> >> PMC members, I put a message at bottom of site main page, please
> check
> >> and if any problems chime in.
> >>
> >> Thanks for your attention
> >>
> >> Jacques
> >

[David E Jones-3]

Jacques,

While I appreciate your concern the proper place to discuss things of  
a sensitive nature like this is on the PMC mailing list, and NOT out  
in public like this... especially on both the dev and user mailing  
lists at the same time (making a conversation even more cumbersome),  
and also not putting something like you did on the home page. If you  
look around I'm sure you'll notice that no other project has anything  
like that around.

This may need further discussion (on the private mailing list only  
please), but IMO your interpretation is incorrect of what Ted Husted  
wrote and what the Apache license says.

As an example of why a more public forum is not the place to discuss  
this, note that Tim also misunderstood what you wrote and it exploded  
into an unfortunate, distracting, and off-putting discussion.

To those reading in: please don't worry about this for now. If you  
need more information on the topic, look at what is written in  
official places on the apache.org site.

-David


On Apr 18, 2009, at 8:41 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:

> HI All,
>
> This is an *important message* to remind you that if you make  
> available to public a "mirror" of Apache OFBiz web site (http://ofbiz.apache.org/ 
> ) or an instance of Apache OFBiz,  you should never use the original  
> ofbiz.ico, ofbiz.gif and ofbiz_logo.jpg files (any version of these  
> files, old or present). These are strict ASF proprietary and should  
> never be used by site publicly available ouf of proper ASF  
> infrastructure (the Contegix servers used by Apache OFBiz for that  
> are parts of ASF infra).
>
> PMC members, I put a message at bottom of site main page, please  
> check and if any problems chime in.
>
> Thanks for your attention
>
> Jacques