About the new Rainbow Stone theme and Tomahawk

[Jacques Le Roux]

Hi All,

Julien, who created the  new Rainbow Stone theme (OFBIZ-6843), privately asked me (translation from French):

<<Last time you said you like the theme Tomahawk. So I was wondering out of curiosity what makes you like this theme?>>

Actually the question for me is more why I prefer Tomahawk(and its predecessors) over Flat Grey. I put apart the Bizzness time theme because, in my
opinion, it has still some issues (OFBIZ-2398). I know certain persons prefer it.

I somehow already answered this question at http://markmail.org/message/hpfgweo4v34glptq

The main point is it's often easier to read text of narrow lengths. For instance that's why (with other reasons) newspapers have multi-columns. And
also why TV prompters show few words by line. For prompters I guess the idea is also not to have journalists/presenters eyes moving (it's coupled with
rolling down text).

At least it's my opinion: it's easier to read a column of options than a line of options. Especially if the number of options is significant. Also
because the words forming the options are not a sentence and we (at least in LTR languages) are used to read sentences from Left to Right. And reading
words w/o relations between them in line confuses your brain.  So I don't know you, but it causes me headaches to find menu options in line like in
Flat Grey. When I find it easier in menu options in column like in Tomahawk, where I spot them almost instantly.

This said I think Julien already answered somehow to this point of view. Because his new theme integrates a mix of features we had so far:

  * tabs for 1st web apps (like in the 1st "theme" OFBiz had initially) and sub-menus
  * Drop-down menus for some of the (others) web apps

Thanks for the effort Julien: impressive!

You also asked
<<Do you have tracks that would allow me to take the best of what exists to put it in my theme?>>

Yes, there are some points we could improve in this new theme:

  * Actually having too much options in a vertical menu is almost as confusing as having menu options in a line. I like how main web apps were
    initially separated from others in the Bizzness time theme[1]. This way still exists in Tomahawk and I miss it in Rainbow Stone. Maybe we could
    have all the main web apps in tabs? I think the screens widths now allow it (OK not in pads or smartphone, but this is more about backend which I
    guess is most used on wide screens). Maybe, as you did, keep only few tabs and have 2 dropdown menus?
  * Where are shown the "Last system notes" ?

This said we still miss to have (an option?) the tabs sorted alphabetically (in each language) ;)

Also you should remove your avatar from the theme images provided ;) Is there a way for users to set their own? Also how can contributors from missing
countries propose their own flag? Ha, when you change to some languages nothing appears (like ES or NL).
There are certainly other trivial things I missed...

As a last note, I finally think choosing a them is more a subjective thing and, like Flat Grey, Rainbow Stone has the great advantage of supporting
RTL, a good mix really!

Sorry for the long post :)

Jacques
[1] Actually in R09.04 the specialpurpose web apps where in the footer.

[hoboy2]

CONTENTS DELETED

The author has deleted this message.

[Jacques Le Roux]

Le 04/02/2016 19:57, Jean-Luc Sylvestre a écrit :
> Allez Allez Traduit le :)

TraduiS le :p

Jacques

>
> On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 7:28 PM, Jacques Le Roux <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Julien, who created the  new Rainbow Stone theme (OFBIZ-6843), privately
>> asked me (translation from French):
>>
>> <<Last time you said you like the theme Tomahawk. So I was wondering out
>> of curiosity what makes you like this theme?>>
>>
>> Actually the question for me is more why I prefer Tomahawk(and its
>> predecessors) over Flat Grey. I put apart the Bizzness time theme because,
>> in my opinion, it has still some issues (OFBIZ-2398). I know certain
>> persons prefer it.
>>
>> I somehow already answered this question at
>> http://markmail.org/message/hpfgweo4v34glptq
>>
>> The main point is it's often easier to read text of narrow lengths. For
>> instance that's why (with other reasons) newspapers have multi-columns. And
>> also why TV prompters show few words by line. For prompters I guess the
>> idea is also not to have journalists/presenters eyes moving (it's coupled
>> with rolling down text).
>>
>> At least it's my opinion: it's easier to read a column of options than a
>> line of options. Especially if the number of options is significant. Also
>> because the words forming the options are not a sentence and we (at least
>> in LTR languages) are used to read sentences from Left to Right. And
>> reading words w/o relations between them in line confuses your brain.  So I
>> don't know you, but it causes me headaches to find menu options in line
>> like in Flat Grey. When I find it easier in menu options in column like in
>> Tomahawk, where I spot them almost instantly.
>>
>> This said I think Julien already answered somehow to this point of view.
>> Because his new theme integrates a mix of features we had so far:
>>
>>   * tabs for 1st web apps (like in the 1st "theme" OFBiz had initially) and
>> sub-menus
>>   * Drop-down menus for some of the (others) web apps
>>
>> Thanks for the effort Julien: impressive!
>>
>> You also asked
>> <<Do you have tracks that would allow me to take the best of what exists
>> to put it in my theme?>>
>>
>> Yes, there are some points we could improve in this new theme:
>>
>>   * Actually having too much options in a vertical menu is almost as
>> confusing as having menu options in a line. I like how main web apps were
>>     initially separated from others in the Bizzness time theme[1]. This way
>> still exists in Tomahawk and I miss it in Rainbow Stone. Maybe we could
>>     have all the main web apps in tabs? I think the screens widths now
>> allow it (OK not in pads or smartphone, but this is more about backend
>> which I
>>     guess is most used on wide screens). Maybe, as you did, keep only few
>> tabs and have 2 dropdown menus?
>>   * Where are shown the "Last system notes" ?
>>
>> This said we still miss to have (an option?) the tabs sorted
>> alphabetically (in each language) ;)
>>
>> Also you should remove your avatar from the theme images provided ;) Is
>> there a way for users to set their own? Also how can contributors from
>> missing countries propose their own flag? Ha, when you change to some
>> languages nothing appears (like ES or NL).
>> There are certainly other trivial things I missed...
>>
>> As a last note, I finally think choosing a them is more a subjective thing
>> and, like Flat Grey, Rainbow Stone has the great advantage of supporting
>> RTL, a good mix really!
>>
>> Sorry for the long post :)
>>
>> Jacques
>> [1] Actually in R09.04 the specialpurpose web apps where in the footer.
>>
>>

[Jacques Le Roux]

OK I think I will open a Jira for this theme improvements

Jacques

Le 04/02/2016 21:16, Jacques Le Roux a écrit :

> Le 04/02/2016 19:57, Jean-Luc Sylvestre a écrit :
>> Allez Allez Traduit le :)
>
> TraduiS le :p
>
> Jacques
>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 7:28 PM, Jacques Le Roux <
>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> Julien, who created the  new Rainbow Stone theme (OFBIZ-6843), privately
>>> asked me (translation from French):
>>>
>>> <<Last time you said you like the theme Tomahawk. So I was wondering out
>>> of curiosity what makes you like this theme?>>
>>>
>>> Actually the question for me is more why I prefer Tomahawk(and its
>>> predecessors) over Flat Grey. I put apart the Bizzness time theme because,
>>> in my opinion, it has still some issues (OFBIZ-2398). I know certain
>>> persons prefer it.
>>>
>>> I somehow already answered this question at
>>> http://markmail.org/message/hpfgweo4v34glptq
>>>
>>> The main point is it's often easier to read text of narrow lengths. For
>>> instance that's why (with other reasons) newspapers have multi-columns. And
>>> also why TV prompters show few words by line. For prompters I guess the
>>> idea is also not to have journalists/presenters eyes moving (it's coupled
>>> with rolling down text).
>>>
>>> At least it's my opinion: it's easier to read a column of options than a
>>> line of options. Especially if the number of options is significant. Also
>>> because the words forming the options are not a sentence and we (at least
>>> in LTR languages) are used to read sentences from Left to Right. And
>>> reading words w/o relations between them in line confuses your brain.  So I
>>> don't know you, but it causes me headaches to find menu options in line
>>> like in Flat Grey. When I find it easier in menu options in column like in
>>> Tomahawk, where I spot them almost instantly.
>>>
>>> This said I think Julien already answered somehow to this point of view.
>>> Because his new theme integrates a mix of features we had so far:
>>>
>>>   * tabs for 1st web apps (like in the 1st "theme" OFBiz had initially) and
>>> sub-menus
>>>   * Drop-down menus for some of the (others) web apps
>>>
>>> Thanks for the effort Julien: impressive!
>>>
>>> You also asked
>>> <<Do you have tracks that would allow me to take the best of what exists
>>> to put it in my theme?>>
>>>
>>> Yes, there are some points we could improve in this new theme:
>>>
>>>   * Actually having too much options in a vertical menu is almost as
>>> confusing as having menu options in a line. I like how main web apps were
>>>     initially separated from others in the Bizzness time theme[1]. This way
>>> still exists in Tomahawk and I miss it in Rainbow Stone. Maybe we could
>>>     have all the main web apps in tabs? I think the screens widths now
>>> allow it (OK not in pads or smartphone, but this is more about backend
>>> which I
>>>     guess is most used on wide screens). Maybe, as you did, keep only few
>>> tabs and have 2 dropdown menus?
>>>   * Where are shown the "Last system notes" ?
>>>
>>> This said we still miss to have (an option?) the tabs sorted
>>> alphabetically (in each language) ;)
>>>
>>> Also you should remove your avatar from the theme images provided ;) Is
>>> there a way for users to set their own? Also how can contributors from
>>> missing countries propose their own flag? Ha, when you change to some
>>> languages nothing appears (like ES or NL).
>>> There are certainly other trivial things I missed...
>>>
>>> As a last note, I finally think choosing a them is more a subjective thing
>>> and, like Flat Grey, Rainbow Stone has the great advantage of supporting
>>> RTL, a good mix really!
>>>
>>> Sorry for the long post :)
>>>
>>> Jacques
>>> [1] Actually in R09.04 the specialpurpose web apps where in the footer.
>>>
>>>
>

[Jacques Le Roux]

Done: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-6881

Jacques

Le 04/02/2016 21:37, Jacques Le Roux a écrit :

> OK I think I will open a Jira for this theme improvements
>
> Jacques
>
> Le 04/02/2016 21:16, Jacques Le Roux a écrit :
>> Le 04/02/2016 19:57, Jean-Luc Sylvestre a écrit :
>>> Allez Allez Traduit le :)
>>
>> TraduiS le :p
>>
>> Jacques
>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 7:28 PM, Jacques Le Roux <
>>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi All,
>>>>
>>>> Julien, who created the  new Rainbow Stone theme (OFBIZ-6843), privately
>>>> asked me (translation from French):
>>>>
>>>> <<Last time you said you like the theme Tomahawk. So I was wondering out
>>>> of curiosity what makes you like this theme?>>
>>>>
>>>> Actually the question for me is more why I prefer Tomahawk(and its
>>>> predecessors) over Flat Grey. I put apart the Bizzness time theme because,
>>>> in my opinion, it has still some issues (OFBIZ-2398). I know certain
>>>> persons prefer it.
>>>>
>>>> I somehow already answered this question at
>>>> http://markmail.org/message/hpfgweo4v34glptq
>>>>
>>>> The main point is it's often easier to read text of narrow lengths. For
>>>> instance that's why (with other reasons) newspapers have multi-columns. And
>>>> also why TV prompters show few words by line. For prompters I guess the
>>>> idea is also not to have journalists/presenters eyes moving (it's coupled
>>>> with rolling down text).
>>>>
>>>> At least it's my opinion: it's easier to read a column of options than a
>>>> line of options. Especially if the number of options is significant. Also
>>>> because the words forming the options are not a sentence and we (at least
>>>> in LTR languages) are used to read sentences from Left to Right. And
>>>> reading words w/o relations between them in line confuses your brain.  So I
>>>> don't know you, but it causes me headaches to find menu options in line
>>>> like in Flat Grey. When I find it easier in menu options in column like in
>>>> Tomahawk, where I spot them almost instantly.
>>>>
>>>> This said I think Julien already answered somehow to this point of view.
>>>> Because his new theme integrates a mix of features we had so far:
>>>>
>>>>   * tabs for 1st web apps (like in the 1st "theme" OFBiz had initially) and
>>>> sub-menus
>>>>   * Drop-down menus for some of the (others) web apps
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the effort Julien: impressive!
>>>>
>>>> You also asked
>>>> <<Do you have tracks that would allow me to take the best of what exists
>>>> to put it in my theme?>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes, there are some points we could improve in this new theme:
>>>>
>>>>   * Actually having too much options in a vertical menu is almost as
>>>> confusing as having menu options in a line. I like how main web apps were
>>>>     initially separated from others in the Bizzness time theme[1]. This way
>>>> still exists in Tomahawk and I miss it in Rainbow Stone. Maybe we could
>>>>     have all the main web apps in tabs? I think the screens widths now
>>>> allow it (OK not in pads or smartphone, but this is more about backend
>>>> which I
>>>>     guess is most used on wide screens). Maybe, as you did, keep only few
>>>> tabs and have 2 dropdown menus?
>>>>   * Where are shown the "Last system notes" ?
>>>>
>>>> This said we still miss to have (an option?) the tabs sorted
>>>> alphabetically (in each language) ;)
>>>>
>>>> Also you should remove your avatar from the theme images provided ;) Is
>>>> there a way for users to set their own? Also how can contributors from
>>>> missing countries propose their own flag? Ha, when you change to some
>>>> languages nothing appears (like ES or NL).
>>>> There are certainly other trivial things I missed...
>>>>
>>>> As a last note, I finally think choosing a them is more a subjective thing
>>>> and, like Flat Grey, Rainbow Stone has the great advantage of supporting
>>>> RTL, a good mix really!
>>>>
>>>> Sorry for the long post :)
>>>>
>>>> Jacques
>>>> [1] Actually in R09.04 the specialpurpose web apps where in the footer.
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>

[Julien NICOLAS]

Jacques,

Thanks for this detailed email.
My answer in-line.

Le 04/02/2016 19:28, Jacques Le Roux a écrit :

> Hi All,
>
> Julien, who created the  new Rainbow Stone theme (OFBIZ-6843),
> privately asked me (translation from French):
>
> <<Last time you said you like the theme Tomahawk. So I was wondering
> out of curiosity what makes you like this theme?>>
>
> Actually the question for me is more why I prefer Tomahawk(and its
> predecessors) over Flat Grey. I put apart the Bizzness time theme
> because, in my opinion, it has still some issues (OFBIZ-2398). I know
> certain persons prefer it.
>
> I somehow already answered this question at
> http://markmail.org/message/hpfgweo4v34glptq
>
> The main point is it's often easier to read text of narrow lengths.
> For instance that's why (with other reasons) newspapers have
> multi-columns. And also why TV prompters show few words by line. For
> prompters I guess the idea is also not to have journalists/presenters
> eyes moving (it's coupled with rolling down text).
>
> At least it's my opinion: it's easier to read a column of options than
> a line of options. Especially if the number of options is significant.
> Also because the words forming the options are not a sentence and we
> (at least in LTR languages) are used to read sentences from Left to
> Right. And reading words w/o relations between them in line confuses
> your brain.  So I don't know you, but it causes me headaches to find
> menu options in line like in Flat Grey. When I find it easier in menu
> options in column like in Tomahawk, where I spot them almost instantly.
>
> This said I think Julien already answered somehow to this point of
> view. Because his new theme integrates a mix of features we had so far:
>
>  * tabs for 1st web apps (like in the 1st "theme" OFBiz had initially)
> and sub-menus
>  * Drop-down menus for some of the (others) web apps
>
> Thanks for the effort Julien: impressive!

Thanks but the reality is not really the same. The reason is quite
simple. Except admin (and developers of course), users don't need to
have all application menu. If you are purchase manager, you are using
purchase management. If you are production manager, only production, etc.
But I admit that it's a war between people who want a vertical menu and
people who want an horizontal one. I prefer vertical for several reasons
but I like the fixed vertical menu instead of drop down menu. I have a
lot of reason but I lose the war against my colleague :)

> You also asked
> <<Do you have tracks that would allow me to take the best of what
> exists to put it in my theme?>>
>
> Yes, there are some points we could improve in this new theme:
>
>  * Actually having too much options in a vertical menu is almost as
> confusing as having menu options in a line. I like how main web apps were
>    initially separated from others in the Bizzness time theme[1]. This
> way still exists in Tomahawk and I miss it in Rainbow Stone. Maybe we
> could
>    have all the main web apps in tabs? I think the screens widths now
> allow it (OK not in pads or smartphone, but this is more about backend
> which I
>    guess is most used on wide screens). Maybe, as you did, keep only
> few tabs and have 2 dropdown menus?

Starting the previous facts, the "more" (+) dropdown menu don't need to
be there. It's even better to not have this drop down menu.
I set by default to 9 entries because of the customer specifications
need to show it on a 1360px width screen and a quite big company logo.
For me the improvement could be to set number of main application easier :)
>  * Where are shown the "Last system notes" ?
You're true! I just remove it (because of the customer specifications
again...) I've an idea to show it easily.
> This said we still miss to have (an option?) the tabs sorted
> alphabetically (in each language) ;)
Yes it could be better to have it sorted alphabetically. In another
hand, integration could define the menu sorting. Using "position"
parameters in ofbiz-component.xml
Alphabetical sort is not really the best choice for a good UX but the
default choice at least.

>
> Also you should remove your avatar from the theme images provided ;)
Ho! Yes! it's everywhere in my application setting, so I don't see it
any more ;)
> Is there a way for users to set their own?
Yes of course, It's already available in OFBiz but never used. Just
define a party content "Logo image url" for your user party.
> Also how can contributors from missing countries propose their own
> flag? Ha, when you change to some languages nothing appears (like ES
> or NL).
> There are certainly other trivial things I missed...
No, you're true. I had a new css management to have all flag. But it's
working with this format : FR_fr
I manage specific algorithm for FR and EN but all other languages have
to be managed.
>
> As a last note, I finally think choosing a them is more a subjective
> thing and, like Flat Grey, Rainbow Stone has the great advantage of
> supporting RTL, a good mix really!
I don't test rtl yet, so maybe it could be interesting if people use rtl
languages can try it.
And definitely yes, choosing a theme is more a subjective thing, you're
true.
>
> Sorry for the long post :)
No, it's very interesting as always. Thanks again Jacques :)

Julien.
>
> Jacques
> [1] Actually in R09.04 the specialpurpose web apps where in the footer.
>
>

[Jacques Le Roux]

Le 04/02/2016 22:58, Julien NICOLAS a écrit :

> Jacques,
>
> Thanks for this detailed email.
> My answer in-line.
>
> Le 04/02/2016 19:28, Jacques Le Roux a écrit :
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Julien, who created the  new Rainbow Stone theme (OFBIZ-6843), privately asked me (translation from French):
>>
>> <<Last time you said you like the theme Tomahawk. So I was wondering out of curiosity what makes you like this theme?>>
>>
>> Actually the question for me is more why I prefer Tomahawk(and its predecessors) over Flat Grey. I put apart the Bizzness time theme because, in my
>> opinion, it has still some issues (OFBIZ-2398). I know certain persons prefer it.
>>
>> I somehow already answered this question at http://markmail.org/message/hpfgweo4v34glptq
>>
>> The main point is it's often easier to read text of narrow lengths. For instance that's why (with other reasons) newspapers have multi-columns. And
>> also why TV prompters show few words by line. For prompters I guess the idea is also not to have journalists/presenters eyes moving (it's coupled
>> with rolling down text).
>>
>> At least it's my opinion: it's easier to read a column of options than a line of options. Especially if the number of options is significant. Also
>> because the words forming the options are not a sentence and we (at least in LTR languages) are used to read sentences from Left to Right. And
>> reading words w/o relations between them in line confuses your brain.  So I don't know you, but it causes me headaches to find menu options in line
>> like in Flat Grey. When I find it easier in menu options in column like in Tomahawk, where I spot them almost instantly.
>>
>> This said I think Julien already answered somehow to this point of view. Because his new theme integrates a mix of features we had so far:
>>
>>  * tabs for 1st web apps (like in the 1st "theme" OFBiz had initially) and sub-menus
>>  * Drop-down menus for some of the (others) web apps
>>
>> Thanks for the effort Julien: impressive!
> Thanks but the reality is not really the same. The reason is quite simple. Except admin (and developers of course), users don't need to have all
> application menu. If you are purchase manager, you are using purchase management. If you are production manager, only production, etc.

Should not roles handle this aspect? If you are purchase manager, you should see only purchase management, etc. It should work at any menu level or
tabs when used for applications.

> But I admit that it's a war between people who want a vertical menu and people who want an horizontal one. I prefer vertical for several reasons but
> I like the fixed vertical menu instead of drop down menu. I have a lot of reason but I lose the war against my colleague :)

Sincerely from my perspective the better UI we got so far regarding menus is in the Bootstrap theme. Notably when looking at ordermgr, accounting or
facility where you have a quick access to all menus when they take almost any space on screen. We could even introduce a 2nd menu level. For instance
in facility where some entries in the 1st ("Facilities") menu could be grouped, not only in instance  app of course.

>> You also asked
>> <<Do you have tracks that would allow me to take the best of what exists to put it in my theme?>>
>>
>> Yes, there are some points we could improve in this new theme:
>>
>>  * Actually having too much options in a vertical menu is almost as confusing as having menu options in a line. I like how main web apps were
>>    initially separated from others in the Bizzness time theme[1]. This way still exists in Tomahawk and I miss it in Rainbow Stone. Maybe we could
>>    have all the main web apps in tabs? I think the screens widths now allow it (OK not in pads or smartphone, but this is more about backend which I
>>    guess is most used on wide screens). Maybe, as you did, keep only few tabs and have 2 dropdown menus?
> Starting the previous facts, the "more" (+) dropdown menu don't need to be there. It's even better to not have this drop down menu.
> I set by default to 9 entries because of the customer specifications need to show it on a 1360px width screen and a quite big company logo.
> For me the improvement could be to set number of main application easier :)

So how will you show the current menu entries?

>>  * Where are shown the "Last system notes" ?
> You're true! I just remove it (because of the customer specifications again...) I've an idea to show it easily.
>> This said we still miss to have (an option?) the tabs sorted alphabetically (in each language) ;)
> Yes it could be better to have it sorted alphabetically. In another hand, integration could define the menu sorting. Using "position" parameters in
> ofbiz-component.xml
> Alphabetical sort is not really the best choice for a good UX but the default choice at least.

That would be perfect, and even better if not theme dependent. I just created https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-6883 for that

>
>>
>> Also you should remove your avatar from the theme images provided ;)
> Ho! Yes! it's everywhere in my application setting, so I don't see it any more ;)
>> Is there a way for users to set their own?
> Yes of course, It's already available in OFBiz but never used. Just define a party content "Logo image url" for your user party.
>> Also how can contributors from missing countries propose their own flag? Ha, when you change to some languages nothing appears (like ES or NL).
>> There are certainly other trivial things I missed...
> No, you're true. I had a new css management to have all flag. But it's working with this format : FR_fr
> I manage specific algorithm for FR and EN but all other languages have to be managed.
>>
>> As a last note, I finally think choosing a them is more a subjective thing and, like Flat Grey, Rainbow Stone has the great advantage of supporting
>> RTL, a good mix really!
> I don't test rtl yet, so maybe it could be interesting if people use rtl languages can try it.

I tested, since Rainbow Stone inherits from Flat Grey it works the same, at least as far as I tested.

Thanks

Jacques

> And definitely yes, choosing a theme is more a subjective thing, you're true.
>>
>> Sorry for the long post :)
> No, it's very interesting as always. Thanks again Jacques :)
>
> Julien.
>>
>> Jacques
>> [1] Actually in R09.04 the specialpurpose web apps where in the footer.
>>
>>
>
>

[Julien NICOLAS]

Le 05/02/2016 13:22, Jacques Le Roux a écrit :

>
>
> Le 04/02/2016 22:58, Julien NICOLAS a écrit :
>> Jacques,
>>
>> Thanks for this detailed email.
>> My answer in-line.
>>
>> Le 04/02/2016 19:28, Jacques Le Roux a écrit :
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> Julien, who created the  new Rainbow Stone theme (OFBIZ-6843),
>>> privately asked me (translation from French):
>>>
>>> <<Last time you said you like the theme Tomahawk. So I was wondering
>>> out of curiosity what makes you like this theme?>>
>>>
>>> Actually the question for me is more why I prefer Tomahawk(and its
>>> predecessors) over Flat Grey. I put apart the Bizzness time theme
>>> because, in my opinion, it has still some issues (OFBIZ-2398). I
>>> know certain persons prefer it.
>>>
>>> I somehow already answered this question at
>>> http://markmail.org/message/hpfgweo4v34glptq
>>>
>>> The main point is it's often easier to read text of narrow lengths.
>>> For instance that's why (with other reasons) newspapers have
>>> multi-columns. And also why TV prompters show few words by line. For
>>> prompters I guess the idea is also not to have
>>> journalists/presenters eyes moving (it's coupled with rolling down
>>> text).
>>>
>>> At least it's my opinion: it's easier to read a column of options
>>> than a line of options. Especially if the number of options is
>>> significant. Also because the words forming the options are not a
>>> sentence and we (at least in LTR languages) are used to read
>>> sentences from Left to Right. And reading words w/o relations
>>> between them in line confuses your brain. So I don't know you, but
>>> it causes me headaches to find menu options in line like in Flat
>>> Grey. When I find it easier in menu options in column like in
>>> Tomahawk, where I spot them almost instantly.
>>>
>>> This said I think Julien already answered somehow to this point of
>>> view. Because his new theme integrates a mix of features we had so far:
>>>
>>>  * tabs for 1st web apps (like in the 1st "theme" OFBiz had
>>> initially) and sub-menus
>>>  * Drop-down menus for some of the (others) web apps
>>>
>>> Thanks for the effort Julien: impressive!
>> Thanks but the reality is not really the same. The reason is quite
>> simple. Except admin (and developers of course), users don't need to
>> have all application menu. If you are purchase manager, you are using
>> purchase management. If you are production manager, only production,
>> etc.
>
> Should not roles handle this aspect? If you are purchase manager, you
> should see only purchase management, etc. It should work at any menu
> level or tabs when used for applications.

Yes, this is exactly the reason I don't manage this part. I count on the
integrator to properly manage security group and roles and hide
application that is not needed by user.
And all pending menus that can't be display in the 9 available cell, are
pushed in the + dropdown menu.

>
>> But I admit that it's a war between people who want a vertical menu
>> and people who want an horizontal one. I prefer vertical for several
>> reasons but I like the fixed vertical menu instead of drop down menu.
>> I have a lot of reason but I lose the war against my colleague :)
>
> Sincerely from my perspective the better UI we got so far regarding
> menus is in the Bootstrap theme. Notably when looking at ordermgr,
> accounting or facility where you have a quick access to all menus when
> they take almost any space on screen. We could even introduce a 2nd
> menu level. For instance in facility where some entries in the 1st
> ("Facilities") menu could be grouped, not only in instance  app of
> course.

The reason of this horizontal menu is very simple. This is for this
reason I lost the war horizontal VS vertical menu. For a quick access to
the software, I schedule to allow a dropdown menu of the 2nd level menu
on application hover. (See MenuFirstProposal.png in
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-6881)
If you have 2 dropdown with hover management, it's quite frustrating
when you lost your menu for 1px too high (low, right or left) pointer
movement.
The other improvement is to have a sticky menu (maybe lighter than the
big one) I don't know.
In summary, I think I'll develop some other menu type to match with
people taste :)

>
>>> You also asked
>>> <<Do you have tracks that would allow me to take the best of what
>>> exists to put it in my theme?>>
>>>
>>> Yes, there are some points we could improve in this new theme:
>>>
>>>  * Actually having too much options in a vertical menu is almost as
>>> confusing as having menu options in a line. I like how main web apps
>>> were
>>>    initially separated from others in the Bizzness time theme[1].
>>> This way still exists in Tomahawk and I miss it in Rainbow Stone.
>>> Maybe we could
>>>    have all the main web apps in tabs? I think the screens widths
>>> now allow it (OK not in pads or smartphone, but this is more about
>>> backend which I
>>>    guess is most used on wide screens). Maybe, as you did, keep only
>>> few tabs and have 2 dropdown menus?
>> Starting the previous facts, the "more" (+) dropdown menu don't need
>> to be there. It's even better to not have this drop down menu.
>> I set by default to 9 entries because of the customer specifications
>> need to show it on a 1360px width screen and a quite big company logo.
>> For me the improvement could be to set number of main application
>> easier :)
>
> So how will you show the current menu entries?

All other application are listed in the + dropdown menu (mixing main and
secondary applications). 9 first must be the more useful applications to
be very effective.

>
>>>  * Where are shown the "Last system notes" ?
>> You're true! I just remove it (because of the customer specifications
>> again...) I've an idea to show it easily.
>>> This said we still miss to have (an option?) the tabs sorted
>>> alphabetically (in each language) ;)
>> Yes it could be better to have it sorted alphabetically. In another
>> hand, integration could define the menu sorting. Using "position"
>> parameters in ofbiz-component.xml
>> Alphabetical sort is not really the best choice for a good UX but the
>> default choice at least.
>
> That would be perfect, and even better if not theme dependent. I just
> created https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-6883 for that

+1

>
>>
>>>
>>> Also you should remove your avatar from the theme images provided ;)
>> Ho! Yes! it's everywhere in my application setting, so I don't see it
>> any more ;)
>>> Is there a way for users to set their own?
>> Yes of course, It's already available in OFBiz but never used. Just
>> define a party content "Logo image url" for your user party.
>>> Also how can contributors from missing countries propose their own
>>> flag? Ha, when you change to some languages nothing appears (like ES
>>> or NL).
>>> There are certainly other trivial things I missed...
>> No, you're true. I had a new css management to have all flag. But
>> it's working with this format : FR_fr
>> I manage specific algorithm for FR and EN but all other languages
>> have to be managed.
>>>
>>> As a last note, I finally think choosing a them is more a subjective
>>> thing and, like Flat Grey, Rainbow Stone has the great advantage of
>>> supporting RTL, a good mix really!
>> I don't test rtl yet, so maybe it could be interesting if people use
>> rtl languages can try it.
>
> I tested, since Rainbow Stone inherits from Flat Grey it works the
> same, at least as far as I tested.

Good :)

>
> Thanks
>
> Jacques
>
>> And definitely yes, choosing a theme is more a subjective thing,
>> you're true.
>>>
>>> Sorry for the long post :)
>> No, it's very interesting as always. Thanks again Jacques :)
>>
>> Julien.
>>>
>>> Jacques
>>> [1] Actually in R09.04 the specialpurpose web apps where in the footer.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>

[Nicolas Malin-2]

Le 05/02/2016 14:05, Julien NICOLAS a écrit :

> The reason of this horizontal menu is very simple. This is for this
> reason I lost the war horizontal VS vertical menu. For a quick access
> to the software, I schedule to allow a dropdown menu of the 2nd level
> menu on application hover. (See MenuFirstProposal.png in
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-6881)
> If you have 2 dropdown with hover management, it's quite frustrating
> when you lost your menu for 1px too high (low, right or left) pointer
> movement.
> The other improvement is to have a sticky menu (maybe lighter than the
> big one) I don't know.
> In summary, I think I'll develop some other menu type to match with
> people taste :)

Just a flying idea : Why not trying to use html5 contextual menu ?

[Jacques Le Roux]

Le 05/02/2016 14:08, Nicolas Malin a écrit :
> Le 05/02/2016 14:05, Julien NICOLAS a écrit :
>> The reason of this horizontal menu is very simple. This is for this reason I lost the war horizontal VS vertical menu. For a quick access to the
>> software, I schedule to allow a dropdown menu of the 2nd level menu on application hover. (See MenuFirstProposal.png in
>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-6881)
>> If you have 2 dropdown with hover management, it's quite frustrating when you lost your menu for 1px too high (low, right or left) pointer movement.

Yes this issue exists indeed in themes so far. It's really annoying in Business Time. At least you can avoid it, once used to, in the Tomahawk family.

>> The other improvement is to have a sticky menu (maybe lighter than the big one) I don't know.
>> In summary, I think I'll develop some other menu type to match with people taste :)
> Just a flying idea : Why not trying to use html5 contextual menu

Contextual menus are really a cool feature, and now HTML5 is not that new, so yes why not? But I'm not sure it fits for this kind of menus (upper
levels) and how is it really contextual?

Jacques