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Add comments on WorkEffortSkillStandard entity

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Tom

Add comments on WorkEffortSkillStandard entity

This is a reply to a subject on the dev list posted by Nicolas Malin.
Hope no one gets too upset because I am replying here but I can't get on dev list (it only replies to any request with "Remote host said: 552 spam score (7.5) exceeded threshold" )

Any way, Nicolas Malin asked for any thoughts about adding a comments field to the WorkEffortSkillStandard entity which associates a work effort with a skill.

Nick,

The comments could be placed on the skill itself if it does not change from work effort to work effort.

I have an improvement for the HumanrRes app allowing a user to add descriptions on a Skill and it's parent.

In documenting the HumanrRes it was apparent that the Skill form needed improvement. It didn't do much.
I made two improvements that have not been published:

1. In Global HR Settings the Skill feature is divided
into Skill and Parent Skill. Both Skill and Parent have a name and a
description.

This was done to improve the main Skill search screen.

2. The main Skill search is driven by a view, not the
Skill entity, which provides more search criteria for finding skills.

For example you can search by a Skill Group.

You could have a programmer group which could find resources with Java, HTML, Groovy skills in CA with over 2 Years experience etc.

These improvements are documented in my AWS Help Demo but not implemented in the demo.
The demo is at
https://ec2-23-20-150-243.compute-1.amazonaws.com:8443/humanres/control/main
Click the help icon to get help on any screen in HR

Or go directly to Help Screens:

Skill Groups
http://ec2-23-20-150-243.compute-1.amazonaws.com:8080/ofbizhelp/humanres_en/content/HUMANRES_EditSkillType.html

Skills
http://ec2-23-20-150-243.compute-1.amazonaws.com:8080/ofbizhelp/humanres_en/content/ch15s02.html

Search Skills
http://ec2-23-20-150-243.compute-1.amazonaws.com:8080/ofbizhelp/humanres_en/content/HUMANRES_FindPartySkills.html

Tom

Ted Byers

Re: Add comments on WorkEffortSkillStandard entity

Hi Tom,

On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 1:28 PM, Tom Burns <[hidden email]> wrote:

> This is a reply to a subject on the dev list posted by Nicolas Malin.
> Hope no one gets too upset because I am replying here but I can't get on
> dev list (it only replies to any request with "Remote host said: 552 spam
> score (7.5) exceeded threshold" )
>
> I, for one, am glad you resorted to posting it here, as the subject is of
interest to me.

> Any way, Nicolas Malin asked for any thoughts about adding a comments
> field to the WorkEffortSkillStandard entity which associates a work effort
> with a skill.
>
>
I have a thought for another few related extensions. First, there is, to
my mind, a need for something like a track record. Let's take the task of
writing code to support transaction processing through either a gateway or
directly through a processing bank. You could have one programmer with 20
years experience, who has done it once, or another with 5 years experience
who has done it a couple dozen times. If the latter had the details of his
work stored in OFBiz (task assigned, time actually taken, &c.), then we
ought to be able to see the average time to complete the task decreasing
nonlinearly (with each instance providing a diminiishing return wrt
effectiveness at completing the task. I see this as potentially useful in
terms of identifying continuing education requirements, and in assigning
tasks to the most capable person, or the peson who needs the extra
experience the most, depending on whatever other constraints may appkly in
the situation.

Related to this, is the task of estimating the effort required to complete
a task or project. What I have seen so far (and I have been studying
OFBiz, outside normal office hours, for only a few weeks), is that in
workeffort one can enter an estimate of time required, but where that
estimate comes from appears to be just a manager's guess. Based on my
decades of experience in software engineering, such guesstimates are always
wrong and, when made by marketing types rather than coders, excessively
optimistic. What I would like is a tool that handles two things. One that
facilitates funtional requirements analysis, which of course leads to a
list of requirements, and then the second thing the tool needs to do is
take the list of requirements and produce, from the workers' track records,
an estimate of expected value of the time required for each task, along
with it's upper 95% confidence limit.

One deficiency I see in the work effort page is that there is no way to
specify that certian quantities of consumables, from inventory, are
required to complete the task (such as shingles used by a roofer, or wood,
nails and screws used by a carpenter).

Finally, I would like to be able to relate tsks that end up being required
in support of warranty service to the original work effort that proved to
be faulty, so that a statistical model can be estimated to relate need for,
and cost of, warranty service to both workers doing the work and the
supplies used, so that one can take suitable corrective action whether the
deficincy is in the skills possessed by the labourers or in the quality of
supllies provided by suppliers.

Now, the question for you is, is any of this available now, and I just
haven't found it yet, or does it all have to be developed (as I suspect -
I will have to sort out what I will need to add to deal with the
complexities involved in contrators, sub-contractors, day labourers and
employees, &c.)? Do you have any thoughts on how best to realize support
for these ideas? I still have to navigate the OFBiz code, and refresh my
memory on how Java/JSP/JSF programming is best handled (it has been a
while). But perhaps you can point me to the directories and files I will
need to examine first, and the relevant tables inthe DB.

Thanks

Ted

Tom

Re: Add comments on WorkEffortSkillStandard entity

Ted,
You will not find everything you want OOB.

I recommend getting copy of The Data Model Resource Book: A Library of Universal Data Models for All Enterprises, Revised Edition, Volume 1 (see http://www.wiley.com/WileyCDA/WileyTitle/productCd-0471380237.html). Study the chapters on Work Effort, People and Organizations, and Products. You will find entities in the model to support your requirements. OFBiz has over 850 entities that implement the books models OOB.

In OFBiz study the Asset Maintenance, Manufacturing, Party, Project, SCRUM and Work Effort applications for inspiration on using the entities that touch on your problem.

Tom

________________________________
From: Ted Byers <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]; Tom Burns <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2012 2:26 PM
Subject: Re: Add comments on WorkEffortSkillStandard entity

Hi Tom,

On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 1:28 PM, Tom Burns <[hidden email]> wrote:

> This is a reply to a subject on the dev list posted by Nicolas Malin.
> Hope no one gets too upset because I am replying here but I can't get on
> dev list (it only replies to any request with "Remote host said: 552 spam
> score (7.5) exceeded threshold" )
>
> I, for one, am glad you resorted to posting it here, as the subject is of
interest to me.

> Any way, Nicolas Malin asked for any thoughts about adding a comments
> field to the WorkEffortSkillStandard entity which associates a work effort
> with a skill.
>
>
I have a thought for another few related extensions. First, there is, to
my mind, a need for something like a track record. Let's take the task of
writing code to support transaction processing through either a gateway or
directly through a processing bank. You could have one programmer with 20
years experience, who has done it once, or another with 5 years experience
who has done it a couple dozen times. If the latter had the details of his
work stored in OFBiz (task assigned, time actually taken, &c.), then we
ought to be able to see the average time to complete the task decreasing
nonlinearly (with each instance providing a diminiishing return wrt
effectiveness at completing the task. I see this as potentially useful in
terms of identifying continuing education requirements, and in assigning
tasks to the most capable person, or the peson who needs the extra
experience the most, depending on whatever other constraints may appkly in
the situation.

Related to this, is the task of estimating the effort required to complete
a task or project. What I have seen so far (and I have been studying
OFBiz, outside normal office hours, for only a few weeks), is that in
workeffort one can enter an estimate of time required, but where that
estimate comes from appears to be just a manager's guess. Based on my
decades of experience in software engineering, such guesstimates are always
wrong and, when made by marketing types rather than coders, excessively
optimistic. What I would like is a tool that handles two things. One that
facilitates funtional requirements analysis, which of course leads to a
list of requirements, and then the second thing the tool needs to do is
take the list of requirements and produce, from the workers' track records,
an estimate of expected value of the time required for each task, along
with it's upper 95% confidence limit.

One deficiency I see in the work effort page is that there is no way to
specify that certian quantities of consumables, from inventory, are
required to complete the task (such as shingles used by a roofer, or wood,
nails and screws used by a carpenter).

Finally, I would like to be able to relate tsks that end up being required
in support of warranty service to the original work effort that proved to
be faulty, so that a statistical model can be estimated to relate need for,
and cost of, warranty service to both workers doing the work and the
supplies used, so that one can take suitable corrective action whether the
deficincy is in the skills possessed by the labourers or in the quality of
supllies provided by suppliers.

Now, the question for you is, is any of this available now, and I just
haven't found it yet, or does it all have to be developed (as I suspect -
I will have to sort out what I will need to add to deal with the
complexities involved in contrators, sub-contractors, day labourers and
employees, &c.)? Do you have any thoughts on how best to realize support
for these ideas? I still have to navigate the OFBiz code, and refresh my
memory on how Java/JSP/JSF programming is best handled (it has been a
while). But perhaps you can point me to the directories and files I will
need to examine first, and the relevant tables inthe DB.

Thanks

Ted

Ted Byers

Re: Add comments on WorkEffortSkillStandard entity

On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 3:51 PM, Tom Burns <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Ted,
> You will not find everything you want OOB.
>
> I am not surprised at this.

> I recommend getting copy of The Data Model Resource Book: A Library of
> Universal Data Models for All Enterprises, Revised Edition, Volume 1 (see
> http://www.wiley.com/WileyCDA/WileyTitle/productCd-0471380237.html).
> Study the chapters on Work Effort, People and Organizations, and Products.
> You will find entities in the model to support your requirements. OFBiz has
> over 850 entities that implement the books models OOB.
>
> In OFBiz study the Asset Maintenance, Manufacturing, Party, Project, SCRUM
> and Work Effort applications for inspiration on using the entities that
> touch on your problem.
>
> Thanks Tom,

I have that book. ;-) In fact, it is one of three volumes, and I have all
3. But I haven't penetrated it very far yet.

I was hoping to wade through it all faster, but there is a lot of code.

Thanks

Ted

Tom

Re: Add comments on WorkEffortSkillStandard entity

Well if you follow my suggestions and you will reduce your reading by an order of magnitude!

________________________________
From: Ted Byers <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]; Tom Burns <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2012 5:03 PM
Subject: Re: Add comments on WorkEffortSkillStandard entity

On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 3:51 PM, Tom Burns <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Ted,
> You will not find everything you want OOB.
>
> I am not surprised at this.

olivier.heintz Neogia.org

Re: Add comments on WorkEffortSkillStandard entity

In reply to this post by Ted Byers

Hi,

We have in neogia addons repository some addons about project management
(base on existing ofbiz project-phase-task portlet done by Ant System).
Most of your requirements are cover.

These addons will be migrate in ofbizextra to be more visible and more
easy to install, but in my todo task, there are a lot of task before.

You can have a first look in fttp://demo.neogia.org/consultantb2b

Olivier

Le 04/10/2012 20:26, Ted Byers a écrit :

> Hi Tom,
>
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 1:28 PM, Tom Burns<[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> This is a reply to a subject on the dev list posted by Nicolas Malin.
>> Hope no one gets too upset because I am replying here but I can't get on
>> dev list (it only replies to any request with "Remote host said: 552 spam
>> score (7.5) exceeded threshold" )
>>
>> I, for one, am glad you resorted to posting it here, as the subject is of
> interest to me.
>
>
>> Any way, Nicolas Malin asked for any thoughts about adding a comments
>> field to the WorkEffortSkillStandard entity which associates a work effort
>> with a skill.
>>
>>
> I have a thought for another few related extensions. First, there is, to
> my mind, a need for something like a track record. Let's take the task of
> writing code to support transaction processing through either a gateway or
> directly through a processing bank. You could have one programmer with 20
> years experience, who has done it once, or another with 5 years experience
> who has done it a couple dozen times. If the latter had the details of his
> work stored in OFBiz (task assigned, time actually taken,&c.), then we
> ought to be able to see the average time to complete the task decreasing
> nonlinearly (with each instance providing a diminiishing return wrt
> effectiveness at completing the task. I see this as potentially useful in
> terms of identifying continuing education requirements, and in assigning
> tasks to the most capable person, or the peson who needs the extra
> experience the most, depending on whatever other constraints may appkly in
> the situation.
>
> Related to this, is the task of estimating the effort required to complete
> a task or project. What I have seen so far (and I have been studying
> OFBiz, outside normal office hours, for only a few weeks), is that in
> workeffort one can enter an estimate of time required, but where that
> estimate comes from appears to be just a manager's guess. Based on my
> decades of experience in software engineering, such guesstimates are always
> wrong and, when made by marketing types rather than coders, excessively
> optimistic. What I would like is a tool that handles two things. One that
> facilitates funtional requirements analysis, which of course leads to a
> list of requirements, and then the second thing the tool needs to do is
> take the list of requirements and produce, from the workers' track records,
> an estimate of expected value of the time required for each task, along
> with it's upper 95% confidence limit.
>
> One deficiency I see in the work effort page is that there is no way to
> specify that certian quantities of consumables, from inventory, are
> required to complete the task (such as shingles used by a roofer, or wood,
> nails and screws used by a carpenter).
>
> Finally, I would like to be able to relate tsks that end up being required
> in support of warranty service to the original work effort that proved to
> be faulty, so that a statistical model can be estimated to relate need for,
> and cost of, warranty service to both workers doing the work and the
> supplies used, so that one can take suitable corrective action whether the
> deficincy is in the skills possessed by the labourers or in the quality of
> supllies provided by suppliers.
>
> Now, the question for you is, is any of this available now, and I just
> haven't found it yet, or does it all have to be developed (as I suspect -
> I will have to sort out what I will need to add to deal with the
> complexities involved in contrators, sub-contractors, day labourers and
> employees,&c.)? Do you have any thoughts on how best to realize support
> for these ideas? I still have to navigate the OFBiz code, and refresh my
> memory on how Java/JSP/JSF programming is best handled (it has been a
> while). But perhaps you can point me to the directories and files I will
> need to examine first, and the relevant tables inthe DB.
>
> Thanks
>
> Ted
>

Ted Byers

Re: Add comments on WorkEffortSkillStandard entity

In reply to this post by Tom

On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 6:00 PM, Tom Burns <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Well if you follow my suggestions and you will reduce your reading by an
> order of magnitude!
>
>
> I understand that, and appreiate it; and I thank you.

> ________________________________
> From: Ted Byers <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]; Tom Burns <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2012 5:03 PM
> Subject: Re: Add comments on WorkEffortSkillStandard entity
>
> On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 3:51 PM, Tom Burns <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Ted,
> > You will not find everything you want OOB.
> >
> > I am not surprised at this.
>
>
> > I recommend getting copy of The Data Model Resource Book: A Library of
> > Universal Data Models for All Enterprises, Revised Edition, Volume 1
> (see
> > http://www.wiley.com/WileyCDA/WileyTitle/productCd-0471380237.html).
> > Study the chapters on Work Effort, People and Organizations, and
> Products.
> > You will find entities in the model to support your requirements. OFBiz
> has
> > over 850 entities that implement the books models OOB.
> >
> > In OFBiz study the Asset Maintenance, Manufacturing, Party, Project,
> SCRUM
> > and Work Effort applications for inspiration on using the entities that
> > touch on your problem.
> >
> > Thanks Tom,
>
> I have that book. ;-) In fact, it is one of three volumes, and I have all
> 3. But I haven't penetrated it very far yet.
>
> I was hoping to wade through it all faster, but there is a lot of code.
>
> Thanks
>
> Ted
>

--
R.E.(Ted) Byers, Ph.D.,Ed.D.
[hidden email]
CTO
Merchant Services Corp.
17665 Leslie st., unit 30
Newmarket , Ontario
L3Y 3E3

Ted Byers

Re: Add comments on WorkEffortSkillStandard entity

In reply to this post by olivier.heintz Neogia.org

On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 6:25 AM, olivier Heintz <[hidden email]>wrote:

> Hi,
>
> We have in neogia addons repository some addons about project management
> (base on existing ofbiz project-phase-task portlet done by Ant System).
> Most of your requirements are cover.
>
> These addons will be migrate in ofbizextra to be more visible and more
> easy to install, but in my todo task, there are a lot of task before.
>
> You can have a first look in fttp://demo.neogia.org/**consultantb2b<http://demo.neogia.org/consultantb2b>
>
> Olivier
>

Hi Oliver

Thanks.

That is interesting. Do you have a timeline when they will be migrated to
ofbizextra, so I can see the code, and do a gap analysis to determine
precisely what else I may need to add?

Thanks

Ted

olivier.heintz Neogia.org

Re: Add comments on WorkEffortSkillStandard entity

Le 08/10/2012 15:21, Ted Byers a écrit :

> On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 6:25 AM, olivier Heintz<[hidden email]>wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> We have in neogia addons repository some addons about project management
>> (base on existing ofbiz project-phase-task portlet done by Ant System).
>> Most of your requirements are cover.
>>
>> These addons will be migrate in ofbizextra to be more visible and more
>> easy to install, but in my todo task, there are a lot of task before.
>>
>> You can have a first look in fttp://demo.neogia.org/**consultantb2b<http://demo.neogia.org/consultantb2b>
>>
>> Olivier
>>
> Hi Oliver
>
> Thanks.
>
> That is interesting. Do you have a timeline when they will be migrated to
> ofbizextra,

unfortunately no, I have only a todo and iI do one after the other ;-)
before I should finish portletWidget branch to be able to easily use portlet
> so I can see the code, and do a gap analysis to determine
> precisely what else I may need to add?
but you can already see all the code, all neogia addons are on GPL or
Apache Licence.
To look the code, the better way is to install a ofbiz with all the
project addons.
With addons you will be able to look the code addons by addons or
directly in a ofbiz merge with them.

I can help you by mail, if you want, but i proposed to do it directly to
not disturb ofbiz mailing list with neogia process.

Olivier
> Thanks
>
> Ted
>