Brainstorming Thread: Objectives for Developers Conference - Next Week!

[David E Jones]

NOTE: This thread is mean to cover topics/objectives for the  
conference only. For information about registration please contact me  
directly.

The Developers Conference starts one week from today, so I guess it's  
about time to start getting a final list of objectives put together.

A number of different things have been discussed and I have a bunch  
of emails saved from these, but rather than sending out my list so  
far I'd like to start out first with a "brainstorming thread".

So, please respond to this with whatever you think would be good to  
work on during the developers conference.

Even if you aren't planning on or able to participate we want your  
feedback. Of course, as is always the case with a community driven  
project like OFBiz this is a meritocracy so those actually working on  
things (on-site or remotely) are the ones who will be deciding on  
what to work on. As I write that I actually feel silly, because how  
else could it be?

-David

[Adrian Crum]

I'm sure everyone knows what my answer is...

UI Refactoring - removing embedded styling from markup.

I like the idea of including those who want to participate but can't be
physically present. The more hands we have coding, the more we can get done.

-Adrian


David E. Jones wrote:

>
> NOTE: This thread is mean to cover topics/objectives for the  conference
> only. For information about registration please contact me  directly.
>
> The Developers Conference starts one week from today, so I guess it's  
> about time to start getting a final list of objectives put together.
>
> A number of different things have been discussed and I have a bunch  of
> emails saved from these, but rather than sending out my list so  far I'd
> like to start out first with a "brainstorming thread".
>
> So, please respond to this with whatever you think would be good to  
> work on during the developers conference.
>
> Even if you aren't planning on or able to participate we want your  
> feedback. Of course, as is always the case with a community driven  
> project like OFBiz this is a meritocracy so those actually working on  
> things (on-site or remotely) are the ones who will be deciding on  what
> to work on. As I write that I actually feel silly, because how  else
> could it be?
>
> -David
>

[byersa]

David,

Is Andrew Z going to be there? Will work on the content management system be
a suitable topic? If not I would like to work on automated testing or
project management. The work that Andrew Sykes did on integrating Selenium
with OFBiz is quite impressive (
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-680). It would be nice to see
some more work done on it.

-Al

On 2/26/07, David E. Jones <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> NOTE: This thread is mean to cover topics/objectives for the
> conference only. For information about registration please contact me
> directly.
>
> The Developers Conference starts one week from today, so I guess it's
> about time to start getting a final list of objectives put together.
>
> A number of different things have been discussed and I have a bunch
> of emails saved from these, but rather than sending out my list so
> far I'd like to start out first with a "brainstorming thread".
>
> So, please respond to this with whatever you think would be good to
> work on during the developers conference.
>
> Even if you aren't planning on or able to participate we want your
> feedback. Of course, as is always the case with a community driven
> project like OFBiz this is a meritocracy so those actually working on
> things (on-site or remotely) are the ones who will be deciding on
> what to work on. As I write that I actually feel silly, because how
> else could it be?
>
> -David
>
>
>

[Tim Ruppert]

Andrew Z will be there for the second half of the week.  

My list would look like 

1. Automated testing (thanks Mr. Sykes for your work done on this)

2. Content management

3. Ajax and Dojo - specifically for helping make the admin tools work more easily for clients

Cheers,

TIm

--

Tim Ruppert

HotWax Media

http://www.hotwaxmedia.com

o:801.649.6594

f:801.649.6595

On Feb 26, 2007, at 7:01 PM, Al Byers wrote:

David,

Is Andrew Z going to be there? Will work on the content management system be

a suitable topic? If not I would like to work on automated testing or

project management. The work that Andrew Sykes did on integrating Selenium

with OFBiz is quite impressive (

https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-680). It would be nice to see

some more work done on it.

-Al

On 2/26/07, David E. Jones <[hidden email]> wrote:

NOTE: This thread is mean to cover topics/objectives for the

conference only. For information about registration please contact me

directly.

The Developers Conference starts one week from today, so I guess it's

about time to start getting a final list of objectives put together.

A number of different things have been discussed and I have a bunch

of emails saved from these, but rather than sending out my list so

far I'd like to start out first with a "brainstorming thread".

So, please respond to this with whatever you think would be good to

work on during the developers conference.

Even if you aren't planning on or able to participate we want your

feedback. Of course, as is always the case with a community driven

project like OFBiz this is a meritocracy so those actually working on

things (on-site or remotely) are the ones who will be deciding on

what to work on. As I write that I actually feel silly, because how

else could it be?

-David

[Brett]

My vote would be the ofbiz test framework if someone is going to be
there to lead it.  I can only attend Friday, but I will be active on
the mailing list and getting updates from subversion throughout the
week.  I think we could get a lot done in a week of concentrated
effort.


Brett

On 2/26/07, Tim Ruppert <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Andrew Z will be there for the second half of the week.
>
> My list would look like
>
> 1. Automated testing (thanks Mr. Sykes for your work done on this)
> 2. Content management
> 3. Ajax and Dojo - specifically for helping make the admin tools work more
> easily for clients
>
>
> Cheers,
> TIm
>
> --
> Tim Ruppert
> HotWax Media
> http://www.hotwaxmedia.com
>
> o:801.649.6594
> f:801.649.6595
>
>
>
> On Feb 26, 2007, at 7:01 PM, Al Byers wrote:
>
> David,
>
> Is Andrew Z going to be there? Will work on the content management system be
> a suitable topic? If not I would like to work on automated testing or
> project management. The work that Andrew Sykes did on integrating Selenium
> with OFBiz is quite impressive (
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-680). It would
> be nice to see
> some more work done on it.
>
> -Al
>
> On 2/26/07, David E. Jones <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> NOTE: This thread is mean to cover topics/objectives for the
> conference only. For information about registration please contact me
> directly.
>
> The Developers Conference starts one week from today, so I guess it's
> about time to start getting a final list of objectives put together.
>
> A number of different things have been discussed and I have a bunch
> of emails saved from these, but rather than sending out my list so
> far I'd like to start out first with a "brainstorming thread".
>
> So, please respond to this with whatever you think would be good to
> work on during the developers conference.
>
> Even if you aren't planning on or able to participate we want your
> feedback. Of course, as is always the case with a community driven
> project like OFBiz this is a meritocracy so those actually working on
> things (on-site or remotely) are the ones who will be deciding on
> what to work on. As I write that I actually feel silly, because how
> else could it be?
>
> -David
>
>
>
>
>
>

[byersa]

Tim,

Do you know what content management topics would be tackled?

Do you happen to know when Andrew will arrive? Wed or Thu?

-Al

On 2/26/07, Tim Ruppert <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Andrew Z will be there for the second half of the week.
> My list would look like
>
> 1. Automated testing (thanks Mr. Sykes for your work done on this)
> 2. Content management
> 3. Ajax and Dojo - specifically for helping make the admin tools work more
> easily for clients
>
> Cheers,
> TIm
> --
> Tim Ruppert
> HotWax Media
> http://www.hotwaxmedia.com
>
> o:801.649.6594
> f:801.649.6595
>
>
> On Feb 26, 2007, at 7:01 PM, Al Byers wrote:
>
> David,
>
> Is Andrew Z going to be there? Will work on the content management system
> be
> a suitable topic? If not I would like to work on automated testing or
> project management. The work that Andrew Sykes did on integrating Selenium
> with OFBiz is quite impressive (
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-680). It would be nice to see
> some more work done on it.
>
> -Al
>
> On 2/26/07, David E. Jones <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
>
> NOTE: This thread is mean to cover topics/objectives for the
> conference only. For information about registration please contact me
> directly.
>
> The Developers Conference starts one week from today, so I guess it's
> about time to start getting a final list of objectives put together.
>
> A number of different things have been discussed and I have a bunch
> of emails saved from these, but rather than sending out my list so
> far I'd like to start out first with a "brainstorming thread".
>
> So, please respond to this with whatever you think would be good to
> work on during the developers conference.
>
> Even if you aren't planning on or able to participate we want your
> feedback. Of course, as is always the case with a community driven
> project like OFBiz this is a meritocracy so those actually working on
> things (on-site or remotely) are the ones who will be deciding on
> what to work on. As I write that I actually feel silly, because how
> else could it be?
>
> -David
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Tim Ruppert]

Andrew arrives on Wednesday.  As for the topics tackled on CMS - I would say we'd start with what Andrew contributed last week and building out functionality that would get us closer to something rivaling Drupal, Joomla, etc.

Currently, attached to a WebSite, you can add pages, with can populate different pre-defined templates with editable content.  This allows you to build a site in the system, all from content records, without ever editing the controller file - here, here!

To get to a larger set of functionality, we would need to implement something that provides greater structure management, permissions, etc.  I believe that most of the groundwork is already there for this, so we'll just see where this sits on everyone's priority list and pluck of tasks to get us there.

Cheers,

Tim

--

Tim Ruppert

HotWax Media

http://www.hotwaxmedia.com

o:801.649.6594

f:801.649.6595

On Feb 26, 2007, at 10:47 PM, Al Byers wrote:

Tim,

Do you know what content management topics would be tackled?

Do you happen to know when Andrew will arrive? Wed or Thu?

-Al

On 2/26/07, Tim Ruppert <[hidden email]> wrote:

Andrew Z will be there for the second half of the week.

My list would look like

1. Automated testing (thanks Mr. Sykes for your work done on this)

2. Content management

3. Ajax and Dojo - specifically for helping make the admin tools work more

easily for clients

Cheers,

TIm

--

Tim Ruppert

HotWax Media

http://www.hotwaxmedia.com

o:801.649.6594

f:801.649.6595

On Feb 26, 2007, at 7:01 PM, Al Byers wrote:

David,

Is Andrew Z going to be there? Will work on the content management system

be

a suitable topic? If not I would like to work on automated testing or

project management. The work that Andrew Sykes did on integrating Selenium

with OFBiz is quite impressive (

https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-680). It would be nice to see

some more work done on it.

-Al

On 2/26/07, David E. Jones <[hidden email]> wrote:

NOTE: This thread is mean to cover topics/objectives for the

conference only. For information about registration please contact me

directly.

The Developers Conference starts one week from today, so I guess it's

about time to start getting a final list of objectives put together.

A number of different things have been discussed and I have a bunch

of emails saved from these, but rather than sending out my list so

far I'd like to start out first with a "brainstorming thread".

So, please respond to this with whatever you think would be good to

work on during the developers conference.

Even if you aren't planning on or able to participate we want your

feedback. Of course, as is always the case with a community driven

project like OFBiz this is a meritocracy so those actually working on

things (on-site or remotely) are the ones who will be deciding on

what to work on. As I write that I actually feel silly, because how

else could it be?

-David

[Jacopo Cappellato]

Unfortunately I'm not in the condition to participate to the conference,
however since you ask for brainstorming here is my list:

1) implement printing/document distribution features (bulk printing,
print queues, print status management etc...)
2) set up the framework and PoC for datewarehouse features
3) refactor/improve the way an order can be edited after it is stored:
more control on reservations, payment transactions, editing of
quantities, adjustments etc...

For #1 and #2, see my notes here: http://docs.ofbiz.org/x/2QI

If there is some interest on some of these I will do my best to remotely
participate to the effort.

Jacopo


David E. Jones wrote:

>
> NOTE: This thread is mean to cover topics/objectives for the conference
> only. For information about registration please contact me directly.
>
> The Developers Conference starts one week from today, so I guess it's
> about time to start getting a final list of objectives put together.
>
> A number of different things have been discussed and I have a bunch of
> emails saved from these, but rather than sending out my list so far I'd
> like to start out first with a "brainstorming thread".
>
> So, please respond to this with whatever you think would be good to work
> on during the developers conference.
>
> Even if you aren't planning on or able to participate we want your
> feedback. Of course, as is always the case with a community driven
> project like OFBiz this is a meritocracy so those actually working on
> things (on-site or remotely) are the ones who will be deciding on what
> to work on. As I write that I actually feel silly, because how else
> could it be?
>
> -David
>

[Joe Eckard]

Maybe we could use the freenode #ofbiz channel to bring more people  
in for the conference... if not for day-to-day use then maybe for a  
few scheduled recaps or Q&A sessions?

-Joe

On Feb 27, 2007, at 6:41 AM, Jacopo Cappellato wrote:

> Unfortunately I'm not in the condition to participate to the  
> conference, however since you ask for brainstorming here is my list:
>
> 1) implement printing/document distribution features (bulk  
> printing, print queues, print status management etc...)
> 2) set up the framework and PoC for datewarehouse features
> 3) refactor/improve the way an order can be edited after it is  
> stored: more control on reservations, payment transactions, editing  
> of quantities, adjustments etc...
>
> For #1 and #2, see my notes here: http://docs.ofbiz.org/x/2QI
>
> If there is some interest on some of these I will do my best to  
> remotely participate to the effort.
>
> Jacopo
>
>
> David E. Jones wrote:
>> NOTE: This thread is mean to cover topics/objectives for the  
>> conference only. For information about registration please contact  
>> me directly.
>> The Developers Conference starts one week from today, so I guess  
>> it's about time to start getting a final list of objectives put  
>> together.
>> A number of different things have been discussed and I have a  
>> bunch of emails saved from these, but rather than sending out my  
>> list so far I'd like to start out first with a "brainstorming  
>> thread".
>> So, please respond to this with whatever you think would be good  
>> to work on during the developers conference.
>> Even if you aren't planning on or able to participate we want your  
>> feedback. Of course, as is always the case with a community driven  
>> project like OFBiz this is a meritocracy so those actually working  
>> on things (on-site or remotely) are the ones who will be deciding  
>> on what to work on. As I write that I actually feel silly, because  
>> how else could it be?
>> -David
>

[Tim Ruppert]

That's not a bad idea at all Joe.  I few of us are pretty much on there all the time anyways.

Cheers,

Tim

--

Tim Ruppert

HotWax Media

http://www.hotwaxmedia.com

o:801.649.6594

f:801.649.6595

On Feb 27, 2007, at 8:49 AM, Joe Eckard wrote:

Maybe we could use the freenode #ofbiz channel to bring more people in for the conference... if not for day-to-day use then maybe for a few scheduled recaps or Q&A sessions?

-Joe

On Feb 27, 2007, at 6:41 AM, Jacopo Cappellato wrote:

Unfortunately I'm not in the condition to participate to the conference, however since you ask for brainstorming here is my list:

1) implement printing/document distribution features (bulk printing, print queues, print status management etc...)

2) set up the framework and PoC for datewarehouse features

3) refactor/improve the way an order can be edited after it is stored: more control on reservations, payment transactions, editing of quantities, adjustments etc...

For #1 and #2, see my notes here: http://docs.ofbiz.org/x/2QI

If there is some interest on some of these I will do my best to remotely participate to the effort.

Jacopo

David E. Jones wrote:

NOTE: This thread is mean to cover topics/objectives for the conference only. For information about registration please contact me directly.

The Developers Conference starts one week from today, so I guess it's about time to start getting a final list of objectives put together.

A number of different things have been discussed and I have a bunch of emails saved from these, but rather than sending out my list so far I'd like to start out first with a "brainstorming thread".

So, please respond to this with whatever you think would be good to work on during the developers conference.

Even if you aren't planning on or able to participate we want your feedback. Of course, as is always the case with a community driven project like OFBiz this is a meritocracy so those actually working on things (on-site or remotely) are the ones who will be deciding on what to work on. As I write that I actually feel silly, because how else could it be?

-David

[Amit Shinde]

Heres my list of interests -

1.> Content Management
2.> Testing frameworks
3.> Refactor Order Creation/ Editing
4.> Though not related to improvement of the existing framework, I am
interested in laying framework for Human Resource Management specifically
for recruitment management as part of the ERP Suite. There are very few open
source softwares for recruiting management and I think an application on
OFBiz would be perfect. The only good and easy-to-use open source projects
on this are http://www.catsone.net and http://www.vectrics.com


-Amit

-----Original Message-----
From: David E. Jones [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 5:08 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Brainstorming Thread: Objectives for Developers Conference -
Next Week!



NOTE: This thread is mean to cover topics/objectives for the
conference only. For information about registration please contact me
directly.

The Developers Conference starts one week from today, so I guess it's
about time to start getting a final list of objectives put together.

A number of different things have been discussed and I have a bunch
of emails saved from these, but rather than sending out my list so
far I'd like to start out first with a "brainstorming thread".

So, please respond to this with whatever you think would be good to
work on during the developers conference.

Even if you aren't planning on or able to participate we want your
feedback. Of course, as is always the case with a community driven
project like OFBiz this is a meritocracy so those actually working on
things (on-site or remotely) are the ones who will be deciding on
what to work on. As I write that I actually feel silly, because how
else could it be?

-David

[Ray Barlow]

Personally I think it is very much time for automated testing to take
hold of this project. It's all to easy for a small change to dangerously
ripple through without it being picked up straight away and with the
increased interest and developers across the community the amount of
time saved could be substantial.

Seeing the CMS system become a working example of an easy to use user
module would be icing on the cake for customer site management.

Ray


David E. Jones wrote:

>
> NOTE: This thread is mean to cover topics/objectives for the
> conference only. For information about registration please contact me
> directly.
>
> The Developers Conference starts one week from today, so I guess it's
> about time to start getting a final list of objectives put together.
>
> A number of different things have been discussed and I have a bunch of
> emails saved from these, but rather than sending out my list so far
> I'd like to start out first with a "brainstorming thread".
>
> So, please respond to this with whatever you think would be good to
> work on during the developers conference.
>
> Even if you aren't planning on or able to participate we want your
> feedback. Of course, as is always the case with a community driven
> project like OFBiz this is a meritocracy so those actually working on
> things (on-site or remotely) are the ones who will be deciding on what
> to work on. As I write that I actually feel silly, because how else
> could it be?
>
> -David
>

[Andrew Sykes]

Al,

Thanks for the vote of confidence on Selenium, and generally for keeping
this effort alive, very much appreciated - I'm getting a bit maxed out,
so struggling to keep it going.

My plan - for what it's worth, was to write an auto-install for Selenium
to work around licensing of some of the libs while keeping the bar low
for usage by newbies.

Some util for unzipping will be needed for this, and if it was generic
could be reused for compressing and uncompressing things like big entity
xml data files.

Any takers?

- Andrew


On Mon, 2007-02-26 at 19:01 -0700, Al Byers wrote:

> David,
>
> Is Andrew Z going to be there? Will work on the content management system be
> a suitable topic? If not I would like to work on automated testing or
> project management. The work that Andrew Sykes did on integrating Selenium
> with OFBiz is quite impressive (
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-680). It would be nice to see
> some more work done on it.
>
> -Al
>
> On 2/26/07, David E. Jones <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >
> > NOTE: This thread is mean to cover topics/objectives for the
> > conference only. For information about registration please contact me
> > directly.
> >
> > The Developers Conference starts one week from today, so I guess it's
> > about time to start getting a final list of objectives put together.
> >
> > A number of different things have been discussed and I have a bunch
> > of emails saved from these, but rather than sending out my list so
> > far I'd like to start out first with a "brainstorming thread".
> >
> > So, please respond to this with whatever you think would be good to
> > work on during the developers conference.
> >
> > Even if you aren't planning on or able to participate we want your
> > feedback. Of course, as is always the case with a community driven
> > project like OFBiz this is a meritocracy so those actually working on
> > things (on-site or remotely) are the ones who will be deciding on
> > what to work on. As I write that I actually feel silly, because how
> > else could it be?
> >
> > -David
> >
> >
> >

--
Kind Regards
Andrew Sykes <[hidden email]>
Sykes Development Ltd
http://www.sykesdevelopment.com

[byersa]

Andrew,

Others may feel differently, but I thought it was sufficiently easy to
install and, to be honest, lowering the bar for newbies is not one of my
biggest priorities. I think it is more important to make it easier for
developers to write tests and so I would like to throw open the question of
what does that entail? I don't really know. I do know that in some cases,
"automation == ease". Are there places where we can automate things?

I also have a question about remote service interface. I did not have time
to look at it in as much depth. I understand that you can select return
parameters to use in the input to the next service call, but is there a way
to specify input parameters to the initial service call? Can we make a
service call from Selenium? I just got as far as the one screen where the
user enters the services name and "pool". What is pool?

How about take down? Is that something that you usually want to do in these
sorts of tests? I guess I mean rolling back transactions. Does OFBiz already
have some sort of cascading remove capability? I know that there are
"related remove" methods.

-Al

On 2/28/07, Andrew Sykes <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Al,
>
> Thanks for the vote of confidence on Selenium, and generally for keeping
> this effort alive, very much appreciated - I'm getting a bit maxed out,
> so struggling to keep it going.
>
> My plan - for what it's worth, was to write an auto-install for Selenium
> to work around licensing of some of the libs while keeping the bar low
> for usage by newbies.
>
> Some util for unzipping will be needed for this, and if it was generic
> could be reused for compressing and uncompressing things like big entity
> xml data files.
>
> Any takers?
>
> - Andrew
>
>
> On Mon, 2007-02-26 at 19:01 -0700, Al Byers wrote:
> > David,
> >
> > Is Andrew Z going to be there? Will work on the content management
> system be
> > a suitable topic? If not I would like to work on automated testing or
> > project management. The work that Andrew Sykes did on integrating
> Selenium
> > with OFBiz is quite impressive (
> > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-680). It would be nice to
> see
> > some more work done on it.
> >
> > -Al
> >
> > On 2/26/07, David E. Jones <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > NOTE: This thread is mean to cover topics/objectives for the
> > > conference only. For information about registration please contact me
> > > directly.
> > >
> > > The Developers Conference starts one week from today, so I guess it's
> > > about time to start getting a final list of objectives put together.
> > >
> > > A number of different things have been discussed and I have a bunch
> > > of emails saved from these, but rather than sending out my list so
> > > far I'd like to start out first with a "brainstorming thread".
> > >
> > > So, please respond to this with whatever you think would be good to
> > > work on during the developers conference.
> > >
> > > Even if you aren't planning on or able to participate we want your
> > > feedback. Of course, as is always the case with a community driven
> > > project like OFBiz this is a meritocracy so those actually working on
> > > things (on-site or remotely) are the ones who will be deciding on
> > > what to work on. As I write that I actually feel silly, because how
> > > else could it be?
> > >
> > > -David
> > >
> > >
> > >
> --
> Kind Regards
> Andrew Sykes <[hidden email]>
> Sykes Development Ltd
> http://www.sykesdevelopment.com
>
>

[byersa]

David,

This is slightly OT, but this is where people are reading on the conf. There
is not all that much to do in Ephraim, but I was wondering how close or far
interesting hikes or walks would be. I would suggest that anyone who is
interested bring a pair of good hiking or walking shoes. That is as good a
place to discuss OFBiz as any.

-Al

On 2/26/07, David E. Jones <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> NOTE: This thread is mean to cover topics/objectives for the
> conference only. For information about registration please contact me
> directly.
>
> The Developers Conference starts one week from today, so I guess it's
> about time to start getting a final list of objectives put together.
>
> A number of different things have been discussed and I have a bunch
> of emails saved from these, but rather than sending out my list so
> far I'd like to start out first with a "brainstorming thread".
>
> So, please respond to this with whatever you think would be good to
> work on during the developers conference.
>
> Even if you aren't planning on or able to participate we want your
> feedback. Of course, as is always the case with a community driven
> project like OFBiz this is a meritocracy so those actually working on
> things (on-site or remotely) are the ones who will be deciding on
> what to work on. As I write that I actually feel silly, because how
> else could it be?
>
> -David
>
>
>

[David E Jones]

There are good places to walk nearby here, but this time of year the  
hills and mountains are either snowy or muddy...

Actually, according to the weather forecast the temperatures look  
pretty nice next week, like high 40's and low 50's, in the valley at  
least. If anyone wants to drive a bit there are nice places to the  
south, but that would be a full-day trip... So yeah, if anyone wants  
to hike just bring a good jacket and some boots... and look forward  
mud or snow... ;) I walk in the mountains quite a bit, even this time  
of year, and it's nice but the right gear makes the difference  
between a good walk and a good bit of discomfort.

Of course, we can also walk around town here and such. There are also  
other things we can do for diversion here, including the bowling  
alley down the road that we went to during the post-conference  
training last Nov.

If all else fails, there's a good ding-hose we can jump on at a gas  
station about a block away!

-David


On Feb 28, 2007, at 5:44 PM, Al Byers wrote:

> David,
>
> This is slightly OT, but this is where people are reading on the  
> conf. There
> is not all that much to do in Ephraim, but I was wondering how  
> close or far
> interesting hikes or walks would be. I would suggest that anyone  
> who is
> interested bring a pair of good hiking or walking shoes. That is as  
> good a
> place to discuss OFBiz as any.
>
> -Al
>
> On 2/26/07, David E. Jones <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> NOTE: This thread is mean to cover topics/objectives for the
>> conference only. For information about registration please contact me
>> directly.
>>
>> The Developers Conference starts one week from today, so I guess it's
>> about time to start getting a final list of objectives put together.
>>
>> A number of different things have been discussed and I have a bunch
>> of emails saved from these, but rather than sending out my list so
>> far I'd like to start out first with a "brainstorming thread".
>>
>> So, please respond to this with whatever you think would be good to
>> work on during the developers conference.
>>
>> Even if you aren't planning on or able to participate we want your
>> feedback. Of course, as is always the case with a community driven
>> project like OFBiz this is a meritocracy so those actually working on
>> things (on-site or remotely) are the ones who will be deciding on
>> what to work on. As I write that I actually feel silly, because how
>> else could it be?
>>
>> -David
>>
>>
>>

[Andrew Sykes]

Al,

Writing tests with Selenium is particularly easy if you install the
SeleniumIDE (for FireFox). Writing a test is then as simple a clicking
record.

The "Run Service" addition does allow you to add results to the session
and then populate the next "Run Service" with them. In conjunction with
Selenium, initial parameters would be recorded in the test case. If you
need more flexibility, just pair up a bsh with the ftl where the test
case is recorded - some work/thought is needed around this to make it
work well.

I should have clarified my comment about lowering the bar for newbies.
In my opinion, there are two reasons why this is important.
1/ Automated testing is a really important thing for technology managers
when they are evaluating, I'd hate to think that we lose adopters
because checking automated testing features is just too much hassle.
2/ Selenium automation can be slowed down, a few people have mentioned
to me via the ML and privately that they would like to be able to record
a sequence of actions for didactic purposes (e.g. "how do I create a
variant product?"), for this to be practical the bar needs to be very
low!

Let me know what you think.
- Andrew

On Wed, 2007-02-28 at 17:41 -0700, Al Byers wrote:

> Andrew,
>
> Others may feel differently, but I thought it was sufficiently easy to
> install and, to be honest, lowering the bar for newbies is not one of my
> biggest priorities. I think it is more important to make it easier for
> developers to write tests and so I would like to throw open the question of
> what does that entail? I don't really know. I do know that in some cases,
> "automation == ease". Are there places where we can automate things?
>
> I also have a question about remote service interface. I did not have time
> to look at it in as much depth. I understand that you can select return
> parameters to use in the input to the next service call, but is there a way
> to specify input parameters to the initial service call? Can we make a
> service call from Selenium? I just got as far as the one screen where the
> user enters the services name and "pool". What is pool?
>
> How about take down? Is that something that you usually want to do in these
> sorts of tests? I guess I mean rolling back transactions. Does OFBiz already
> have some sort of cascading remove capability? I know that there are
> "related remove" methods.
>
> -Al
>
> On 2/28/07, Andrew Sykes <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Al,
> >
> > Thanks for the vote of confidence on Selenium, and generally for keeping
> > this effort alive, very much appreciated - I'm getting a bit maxed out,
> > so struggling to keep it going.
> >
> > My plan - for what it's worth, was to write an auto-install for Selenium
> > to work around licensing of some of the libs while keeping the bar low
> > for usage by newbies.
> >
> > Some util for unzipping will be needed for this, and if it was generic
> > could be reused for compressing and uncompressing things like big entity
> > xml data files.
> >
> > Any takers?
> >
> > - Andrew
> >
> >
> > On Mon, 2007-02-26 at 19:01 -0700, Al Byers wrote:
> > > David,
> > >
> > > Is Andrew Z going to be there? Will work on the content management
> > system be
> > > a suitable topic? If not I would like to work on automated testing or
> > > project management. The work that Andrew Sykes did on integrating
> > Selenium
> > > with OFBiz is quite impressive (
> > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-680). It would be nice to
> > see
> > > some more work done on it.
> > >
> > > -Al
> > >
> > > On 2/26/07, David E. Jones <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > NOTE: This thread is mean to cover topics/objectives for the
> > > > conference only. For information about registration please contact me
> > > > directly.
> > > >
> > > > The Developers Conference starts one week from today, so I guess it's
> > > > about time to start getting a final list of objectives put together.
> > > >
> > > > A number of different things have been discussed and I have a bunch
> > > > of emails saved from these, but rather than sending out my list so
> > > > far I'd like to start out first with a "brainstorming thread".
> > > >
> > > > So, please respond to this with whatever you think would be good to
> > > > work on during the developers conference.
> > > >
> > > > Even if you aren't planning on or able to participate we want your
> > > > feedback. Of course, as is always the case with a community driven
> > > > project like OFBiz this is a meritocracy so those actually working on
> > > > things (on-site or remotely) are the ones who will be deciding on
> > > > what to work on. As I write that I actually feel silly, because how
> > > > else could it be?
> > > >
> > > > -David
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > --
> > Kind Regards
> > Andrew Sykes <[hidden email]>
> > Sykes Development Ltd
> > http://www.sykesdevelopment.com
> >
> >

--
Kind Regards
Andrew Sykes <[hidden email]>
Sykes Development Ltd
http://www.sykesdevelopment.com

[byersa]

Andrew,

I agree that those are good reasons to automate the install. But to be
honest again, you seem to know what needs to be done and are probably the
best person to do it :0) Maybe I can help outside of the conference. I will
sit in on the testing group early in the week, but will be transitioning to
the content management group later in the week. I will wait to see what that
testing group has in mind and make sure the current state of Selenium is
presented. As has been stated, the things that will get done will be those
things that the attendees are most interested in.

I am pretty sure that one of the main goals is to cover as much of OFBiz as
possible with JUnit test - though we are not doing a very good job of
getting the agendas out before the meeting.

-Al

On 3/1/07, Andrew Sykes <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Al,
>
> Writing tests with Selenium is particularly easy if you install the
> SeleniumIDE (for FireFox). Writing a test is then as simple a clicking
> record.
>
> The "Run Service" addition does allow you to add results to the session
> and then populate the next "Run Service" with them. In conjunction with
> Selenium, initial parameters would be recorded in the test case. If you
> need more flexibility, just pair up a bsh with the ftl where the test
> case is recorded - some work/thought is needed around this to make it
> work well.
>
> I should have clarified my comment about lowering the bar for newbies.
> In my opinion, there are two reasons why this is important.
> 1/ Automated testing is a really important thing for technology managers
> when they are evaluating, I'd hate to think that we lose adopters
> because checking automated testing features is just too much hassle.
> 2/ Selenium automation can be slowed down, a few people have mentioned
> to me via the ML and privately that they would like to be able to record
> a sequence of actions for didactic purposes (e.g. "how do I create a
> variant product?"), for this to be practical the bar needs to be very
> low!
>
> Let me know what you think.
> - Andrew
>
> On Wed, 2007-02-28 at 17:41 -0700, Al Byers wrote:
> > Andrew,
> >
> > Others may feel differently, but I thought it was sufficiently easy to
> > install and, to be honest, lowering the bar for newbies is not one of my
> > biggest priorities. I think it is more important to make it easier for
> > developers to write tests and so I would like to throw open the question
> of
> > what does that entail? I don't really know. I do know that in some
> cases,
> > "automation == ease". Are there places where we can automate things?
> >
> > I also have a question about remote service interface. I did not have
> time
> > to look at it in as much depth. I understand that you can select return
> > parameters to use in the input to the next service call, but is there a
> way
> > to specify input parameters to the initial service call? Can we make a
> > service call from Selenium? I just got as far as the one screen where
> the
> > user enters the services name and "pool". What is pool?
> >
> > How about take down? Is that something that you usually want to do in
> these
> > sorts of tests? I guess I mean rolling back transactions. Does OFBiz
> already
> > have some sort of cascading remove capability? I know that there are
> > "related remove" methods.
> >
> > -Al
> >
> > On 2/28/07, Andrew Sykes <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > > Al,
> > >
> > > Thanks for the vote of confidence on Selenium, and generally for
> keeping
> > > this effort alive, very much appreciated - I'm getting a bit maxed
> out,
> > > so struggling to keep it going.
> > >
> > > My plan - for what it's worth, was to write an auto-install for
> Selenium
> > > to work around licensing of some of the libs while keeping the bar low
> > > for usage by newbies.
> > >
> > > Some util for unzipping will be needed for this, and if it was generic
> > > could be reused for compressing and uncompressing things like big
> entity
> > > xml data files.
> > >
> > > Any takers?
> > >
> > > - Andrew
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, 2007-02-26 at 19:01 -0700, Al Byers wrote:
> > > > David,
> > > >
> > > > Is Andrew Z going to be there? Will work on the content management
> > > system be
> > > > a suitable topic? If not I would like to work on automated testing
> or
> > > > project management. The work that Andrew Sykes did on integrating
> > > Selenium
> > > > with OFBiz is quite impressive (
> > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-680). It would be nice
> to
> > > see
> > > > some more work done on it.
> > > >
> > > > -Al
> > > >
> > > > On 2/26/07, David E. Jones <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > NOTE: This thread is mean to cover topics/objectives for the
> > > > > conference only. For information about registration please contact
> me
> > > > > directly.
> > > > >
> > > > > The Developers Conference starts one week from today, so I guess
> it's
> > > > > about time to start getting a final list of objectives put
> together.
> > > > >
> > > > > A number of different things have been discussed and I have a
> bunch
> > > > > of emails saved from these, but rather than sending out my list so
> > > > > far I'd like to start out first with a "brainstorming thread".
> > > > >
> > > > > So, please respond to this with whatever you think would be good
> to
> > > > > work on during the developers conference.
> > > > >
> > > > > Even if you aren't planning on or able to participate we want your
> > > > > feedback. Of course, as is always the case with a community driven
> > > > > project like OFBiz this is a meritocracy so those actually working
> on
> > > > > things (on-site or remotely) are the ones who will be deciding on
> > > > > what to work on. As I write that I actually feel silly, because
> how
> > > > > else could it be?
> > > > >
> > > > > -David
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > --
> > > Kind Regards
> > > Andrew Sykes <[hidden email]>
> > > Sykes Development Ltd
> > > http://www.sykesdevelopment.com
> > >
> > >
> --
> Kind Regards
> Andrew Sykes <[hidden email]>
> Sykes Development Ltd
> http://www.sykesdevelopment.com
>
>

[byersa]

Andrew,

I meant to ask if you had come across this means for turning Selenium into a
load testing tool:
http://ez.no/community/articles/testing_ez_publish_with_selenium/performance_testing

-Al

On 3/1/07, Al Byers <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Andrew,
>
> I agree that those are good reasons to automate the install. But to be
> honest again, you seem to know what needs to be done and are probably the
> best person to do it :0) Maybe I can help outside of the conference. I will
> sit in on the testing group early in the week, but will be transitioning to
> the content management group later in the week. I will wait to see what that
> testing group has in mind and make sure the current state of Selenium is
> presented. As has been stated, the things that will get done will be those
> things that the attendees are most interested in.
>
> I am pretty sure that one of the main goals is to cover as much of OFBiz
> as possible with JUnit test - though we are not doing a very good job of
> getting the agendas out before the meeting.
>
> -Al
>
> On 3/1/07, Andrew Sykes <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Al,
> >
> > Writing tests with Selenium is particularly easy if you install the
> > SeleniumIDE (for FireFox). Writing a test is then as simple a clicking
> > record.
> >
> > The "Run Service" addition does allow you to add results to the session
> > and then populate the next "Run Service" with them. In conjunction with
> > Selenium, initial parameters would be recorded in the test case. If you
> > need more flexibility, just pair up a bsh with the ftl where the test
> > case is recorded - some work/thought is needed around this to make it
> > work well.
> >
> > I should have clarified my comment about lowering the bar for newbies.
> > In my opinion, there are two reasons why this is important.
> > 1/ Automated testing is a really important thing for technology managers
> > when they are evaluating, I'd hate to think that we lose adopters
> > because checking automated testing features is just too much hassle.
> > 2/ Selenium automation can be slowed down, a few people have mentioned
> > to me via the ML and privately that they would like to be able to record
> > a sequence of actions for didactic purposes (e.g. "how do I create a
> > variant product?"), for this to be practical the bar needs to be very
> > low!
> >
> > Let me know what you think.
> > - Andrew
> >
> > On Wed, 2007-02-28 at 17:41 -0700, Al Byers wrote:
> > > Andrew,
> > >
> > > Others may feel differently, but I thought it was sufficiently easy to
> >
> > > install and, to be honest, lowering the bar for newbies is not one of
> > my
> > > biggest priorities. I think it is more important to make it easier for
> > > developers to write tests and so I would like to throw open the
> > question of
> > > what does that entail? I don't really know. I do know that in some
> > cases,
> > > "automation == ease". Are there places where we can automate things?
> > >
> > > I also have a question about remote service interface. I did not have
> > time
> > > to look at it in as much depth. I understand that you can select
> > return
> > > parameters to use in the input to the next service call, but is there
> > a way
> > > to specify input parameters to the initial service call? Can we make a
> >
> > > service call from Selenium? I just got as far as the one screen where
> > the
> > > user enters the services name and "pool". What is pool?
> > >
> > > How about take down? Is that something that you usually want to do in
> > these
> > > sorts of tests? I guess I mean rolling back transactions. Does OFBiz
> > already
> > > have some sort of cascading remove capability? I know that there are
> > > "related remove" methods.
> > >
> > > -Al
> > >
> > > On 2/28/07, Andrew Sykes <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Al,
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for the vote of confidence on Selenium, and generally for
> > keeping
> > > > this effort alive, very much appreciated - I'm getting a bit maxed
> > out,
> > > > so struggling to keep it going.
> > > >
> > > > My plan - for what it's worth, was to write an auto-install for
> > Selenium
> > > > to work around licensing of some of the libs while keeping the bar
> > low
> > > > for usage by newbies.
> > > >
> > > > Some util for unzipping will be needed for this, and if it was
> > generic
> > > > could be reused for compressing and uncompressing things like big
> > entity
> > > > xml data files.
> > > >
> > > > Any takers?
> > > >
> > > > - Andrew
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, 2007-02-26 at 19:01 -0700, Al Byers wrote:
> > > > > David,
> > > > >
> > > > > Is Andrew Z going to be there? Will work on the content management
> > > > system be
> > > > > a suitable topic? If not I would like to work on automated testing
> > or
> > > > > project management. The work that Andrew Sykes did on integrating
> > > > Selenium
> > > > > with OFBiz is quite impressive (
> > > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-680). It would be nice
> > to
> > > > see
> > > > > some more work done on it.
> > > > >
> > > > > -Al
> > > > >
> > > > > On 2/26/07, David E. Jones <[hidden email] > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > NOTE: This thread is mean to cover topics/objectives for the
> > > > > > conference only. For information about registration please
> > contact me
> > > > > > directly.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The Developers Conference starts one week from today, so I guess
> > it's
> > > > > > about time to start getting a final list of objectives put
> > together.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A number of different things have been discussed and I have a
> > bunch
> > > > > > of emails saved from these, but rather than sending out my list
> > so
> > > > > > far I'd like to start out first with a "brainstorming thread".
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So, please respond to this with whatever you think would be good
> > to
> > > > > > work on during the developers conference.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Even if you aren't planning on or able to participate we want
> > your
> > > > > > feedback. Of course, as is always the case with a community
> > driven
> > > > > > project like OFBiz this is a meritocracy so those actually
> > working on
> > > > > > things (on-site or remotely) are the ones who will be deciding
> > on
> > > > > > what to work on. As I write that I actually feel silly, because
> > how
> > > > > > else could it be?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -David
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Kind Regards
> > > > Andrew Sykes <[hidden email]>
> > > > Sykes Development Ltd
> > > > http://www.sykesdevelopment.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > --
> > Kind Regards
> > Andrew Sykes <[hidden email] >
> > Sykes Development Ltd
> > http://www.sykesdevelopment.com
> >
> >
>

[Andrew Sykes]

Al,

That's an interesting article and selenium-goto sounds like a useful
addition, although we do already have some of this flexibility by just
wrapping a chunk of tests in an ftl loop - although you can imagine how
that could quickly get out of hand!

The only thing that seems odd to me is the idea that you would stress
the application with a different tool, but I guess Selenium is a bit
limited in what it can do in this respect.

Whether this happens at the conference or outside it, I'd very much
welcome your collaboration with this, as I've already had to make a lot
of decisions about the layout of this work that would seem better
addressed collaboratively.

Thanks again.
- Andrew


On Thu, 2007-03-01 at 21:52 -0700, Al Byers wrote:

> Andrew,
>
> I meant to ask if you had come across this means for turning Selenium into a
> load testing tool:
> http://ez.no/community/articles/testing_ez_publish_with_selenium/performance_testing
>
> -Al
>
> On 3/1/07, Al Byers <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Andrew,
> >
> > I agree that those are good reasons to automate the install. But to be
> > honest again, you seem to know what needs to be done and are probably the
> > best person to do it :0) Maybe I can help outside of the conference. I will
> > sit in on the testing group early in the week, but will be transitioning to
> > the content management group later in the week. I will wait to see what that
> > testing group has in mind and make sure the current state of Selenium is
> > presented. As has been stated, the things that will get done will be those
> > things that the attendees are most interested in.
> >
> > I am pretty sure that one of the main goals is to cover as much of OFBiz
> > as possible with JUnit test - though we are not doing a very good job of
> > getting the agendas out before the meeting.
> >
> > -Al
> >
> > On 3/1/07, Andrew Sykes <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > > Al,
> > >
> > > Writing tests with Selenium is particularly easy if you install the
> > > SeleniumIDE (for FireFox). Writing a test is then as simple a clicking
> > > record.
> > >
> > > The "Run Service" addition does allow you to add results to the session
> > > and then populate the next "Run Service" with them. In conjunction with
> > > Selenium, initial parameters would be recorded in the test case. If you
> > > need more flexibility, just pair up a bsh with the ftl where the test
> > > case is recorded - some work/thought is needed around this to make it
> > > work well.
> > >
> > > I should have clarified my comment about lowering the bar for newbies.
> > > In my opinion, there are two reasons why this is important.
> > > 1/ Automated testing is a really important thing for technology managers
> > > when they are evaluating, I'd hate to think that we lose adopters
> > > because checking automated testing features is just too much hassle.
> > > 2/ Selenium automation can be slowed down, a few people have mentioned
> > > to me via the ML and privately that they would like to be able to record
> > > a sequence of actions for didactic purposes (e.g. "how do I create a
> > > variant product?"), for this to be practical the bar needs to be very
> > > low!
> > >
> > > Let me know what you think.
> > > - Andrew
> > >
> > > On Wed, 2007-02-28 at 17:41 -0700, Al Byers wrote:
> > > > Andrew,
> > > >
> > > > Others may feel differently, but I thought it was sufficiently easy to
> > >
> > > > install and, to be honest, lowering the bar for newbies is not one of
> > > my
> > > > biggest priorities. I think it is more important to make it easier for
> > > > developers to write tests and so I would like to throw open the
> > > question of
> > > > what does that entail? I don't really know. I do know that in some
> > > cases,
> > > > "automation == ease". Are there places where we can automate things?
> > > >
> > > > I also have a question about remote service interface. I did not have
> > > time
> > > > to look at it in as much depth. I understand that you can select
> > > return
> > > > parameters to use in the input to the next service call, but is there
> > > a way
> > > > to specify input parameters to the initial service call? Can we make a
> > >
> > > > service call from Selenium? I just got as far as the one screen where
> > > the
> > > > user enters the services name and "pool". What is pool?
> > > >
> > > > How about take down? Is that something that you usually want to do in
> > > these
> > > > sorts of tests? I guess I mean rolling back transactions. Does OFBiz
> > > already
> > > > have some sort of cascading remove capability? I know that there are
> > > > "related remove" methods.
> > > >
> > > > -Al
> > > >
> > > > On 2/28/07, Andrew Sykes <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Al,
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks for the vote of confidence on Selenium, and generally for
> > > keeping
> > > > > this effort alive, very much appreciated - I'm getting a bit maxed
> > > out,
> > > > > so struggling to keep it going.
> > > > >
> > > > > My plan - for what it's worth, was to write an auto-install for
> > > Selenium
> > > > > to work around licensing of some of the libs while keeping the bar
> > > low
> > > > > for usage by newbies.
> > > > >
> > > > > Some util for unzipping will be needed for this, and if it was
> > > generic
> > > > > could be reused for compressing and uncompressing things like big
> > > entity
> > > > > xml data files.
> > > > >
> > > > > Any takers?
> > > > >
> > > > > - Andrew
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, 2007-02-26 at 19:01 -0700, Al Byers wrote:
> > > > > > David,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Is Andrew Z going to be there? Will work on the content management
> > > > > system be
> > > > > > a suitable topic? If not I would like to work on automated testing
> > > or
> > > > > > project management. The work that Andrew Sykes did on integrating
> > > > > Selenium
> > > > > > with OFBiz is quite impressive (
> > > > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-680). It would be nice
> > > to
> > > > > see
> > > > > > some more work done on it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -Al
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 2/26/07, David E. Jones <[hidden email] > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > NOTE: This thread is mean to cover topics/objectives for the
> > > > > > > conference only. For information about registration please
> > > contact me
> > > > > > > directly.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The Developers Conference starts one week from today, so I guess
> > > it's
> > > > > > > about time to start getting a final list of objectives put
> > > together.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > A number of different things have been discussed and I have a
> > > bunch
> > > > > > > of emails saved from these, but rather than sending out my list
> > > so
> > > > > > > far I'd like to start out first with a "brainstorming thread".
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So, please respond to this with whatever you think would be good
> > > to
> > > > > > > work on during the developers conference.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Even if you aren't planning on or able to participate we want
> > > your
> > > > > > > feedback. Of course, as is always the case with a community
> > > driven
> > > > > > > project like OFBiz this is a meritocracy so those actually
> > > working on
> > > > > > > things (on-site or remotely) are the ones who will be deciding
> > > on
> > > > > > > what to work on. As I write that I actually feel silly, because
> > > how
> > > > > > > else could it be?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -David
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Kind Regards
> > > > > Andrew Sykes <[hidden email]>
> > > > > Sykes Development Ltd
> > > > > http://www.sykesdevelopment.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > --
> > > Kind Regards
> > > Andrew Sykes <[hidden email] >
> > > Sykes Development Ltd
> > > http://www.sykesdevelopment.com
> > >
> > >
> >

--
Kind Regards
Andrew Sykes <[hidden email]>
Sykes Development Ltd
http://www.sykesdevelopment.com