Branding

[Jacques Le Roux]

Hi all,

There as been a discussion recently about branding on the incubator ML
Re: Branding Guide clarification (was Re: to brand or not to brand?)

What is the status of OFBiz regarding this aspect ?

Jacques

[David E Jones]

That's for the incubator. It doesn't affect OFBiz which is now a graduated top level project, so the policies are rather different and pretty much separate and can be found on apache.org.

-David


Jacques Le Roux wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> There as been a discussion recently about branding on the incubator ML
> Re: Branding Guide clarification (was Re: to brand or not to brand?)
>
> What is the status of OFBiz regarding this aspect ?
>
> Jacques
>

[Jacques Le Roux]

Thanks David,

Sorry, actually I had not read the thread but it's title. I was thinking
on another subject.

It was about trademark. Have you any idea if somebody can use the OFBiz
brand without the PMC or ASF consent ?

This to be sure that nobody never will use the OFBiz name outside of our
project...

In other word, ASF protect us on the licence level, but what about the
trademark level ?

Thanks

Jacques

----- Message d'origine -----
De : "David E Jones" <[hidden email]>
À : <[hidden email]>
Envoyé : dimanche 27 mai 2007 16:34
Objet : Re: Branding


>
> That's for the incubator. It doesn't affect OFBiz which is now a
graduated top level project, so the policies are rather different and
pretty much separate and can be found on apache.org.
>
> -David
>
>
> Jacques Le Roux wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > There as been a discussion recently about branding on the incubator
ML
> > Re: Branding Guide clarification (was Re: to brand or not to brand?)
> >
> > What is the status of OFBiz regarding this aspect ?
> >
> > Jacques
> >

[David E Jones]

We've discussed this a bit before and nothing has changed since then. There is no registered trademark for OFBiz or "Apache OFBiz" or "The Open For Business Project" or anything else that I'm aware of related to the project.

The only restrictions are those listed in the Apache 2.0 license.

If we did try to register OFBiz or whatever as a trademark it would be very public and open just like everything else, and in fact getting people involved to help sponsor the effort and the legal costs and such would be necessary. A trademark is not something cheap to get started and it takes a LONG time to get finished, and a lot of effort including legal/government efforts and enforcement efforts.

I don't think there is any benefit in doing this, especially not one that justifies the initial and ongoing cost, so chances are this will never be done.

-David


Jacques Le Roux wrote:

> Thanks David,
>
> Sorry, actually I had not read the thread but it's title. I was thinking
> on another subject.
>
> It was about trademark. Have you any idea if somebody can use the OFBiz
> brand without the PMC or ASF consent ?
>
> This to be sure that nobody never will use the OFBiz name outside of our
> project...
>
> In other word, ASF protect us on the licence level, but what about the
> trademark level ?
>
> Thanks
>
> Jacques
>
> ----- Message d'origine -----
> De : "David E Jones" <[hidden email]>
> À : <[hidden email]>
> Envoyé : dimanche 27 mai 2007 16:34
> Objet : Re: Branding
>
>
>> That's for the incubator. It doesn't affect OFBiz which is now a
> graduated top level project, so the policies are rather different and
> pretty much separate and can be found on apache.org.
>> -David
>>
>>
>> Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> There as been a discussion recently about branding on the incubator
> ML
>>> Re: Branding Guide clarification (was Re: to brand or not to brand?)
>>>
>>> What is the status of OFBiz regarding this aspect ?
>>>
>>> Jacques
>>>
>

[Jacques Le Roux]

Thanks David,

And sorry not to have followed previous threads about this subject.

Jacques


>
> We've discussed this a bit before and nothing has changed since then.
There is no registered trademark for OFBiz or "Apache OFBiz" or "The
Open For Business Project" or anything else that I'm aware of related to
the project.
>
> The only restrictions are those listed in the Apache 2.0 license.
>
> If we did try to register OFBiz or whatever as a trademark it would be
very public and open just like everything else, and in fact getting
people involved to help sponsor the effort and the legal costs and such
would be necessary. A trademark is not something cheap to get started
and it takes a LONG time to get finished, and a lot of effort including
legal/government efforts and enforcement efforts.
>
> I don't think there is any benefit in doing this, especially not one
that justifies the initial and ongoing cost, so chances are this will
never be done.
>
> -David
>
>
> Jacques Le Roux wrote:
> > Thanks David,
> >
> > Sorry, actually I had not read the thread but it's title. I was
thinking
> > on another subject.
> >
> > It was about trademark. Have you any idea if somebody can use the
OFBiz
> > brand without the PMC or ASF consent ?
> >
> > This to be sure that nobody never will use the OFBiz name outside of
our
> > project...
> >
> > In other word, ASF protect us on the licence level, but what about
the

> > trademark level ?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Jacques
> >
> > ----- Message d'origine -----
> > De : "David E Jones" <[hidden email]>
> > À : <[hidden email]>
> > Envoyé : dimanche 27 mai 2007 16:34
> > Objet : Re: Branding
> >
> >
> >> That's for the incubator. It doesn't affect OFBiz which is now a
> > graduated top level project, so the policies are rather different

and
> > pretty much separate and can be found on apache.org.
> >> -David
> >>
> >>
> >> Jacques Le Roux wrote:
> >>> Hi all,
> >>>
> >>> There as been a discussion recently about branding on the
incubator
> > ML
> >>> Re: Branding Guide clarification (was Re: to brand or not to
brand?)
> >>>
> >>> What is the status of OFBiz regarding this aspect ?
> >>>
> >>> Jacques
> >>>
> >

[David E Jones]

No problem, it was at least a few months ago.

-David


Jacques Le Roux wrote:

> Thanks David,
>
> And sorry not to have followed previous threads about this subject.
>
> Jacques
>
>
>> We've discussed this a bit before and nothing has changed since then.
> There is no registered trademark for OFBiz or "Apache OFBiz" or "The
> Open For Business Project" or anything else that I'm aware of related to
> the project.
>> The only restrictions are those listed in the Apache 2.0 license.
>>
>> If we did try to register OFBiz or whatever as a trademark it would be
> very public and open just like everything else, and in fact getting
> people involved to help sponsor the effort and the legal costs and such
> would be necessary. A trademark is not something cheap to get started
> and it takes a LONG time to get finished, and a lot of effort including
> legal/government efforts and enforcement efforts.
>> I don't think there is any benefit in doing this, especially not one
> that justifies the initial and ongoing cost, so chances are this will
> never be done.
>> -David
>>
>>
>> Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>> Thanks David,
>>>
>>> Sorry, actually I had not read the thread but it's title. I was
> thinking
>>> on another subject.
>>>
>>> It was about trademark. Have you any idea if somebody can use the
> OFBiz
>>> brand without the PMC or ASF consent ?
>>>
>>> This to be sure that nobody never will use the OFBiz name outside of
> our
>>> project...
>>>
>>> In other word, ASF protect us on the licence level, but what about
> the
>>> trademark level ?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Jacques
>>>
>>> ----- Message d'origine -----
>>> De : "David E Jones" <[hidden email]>
>>> À : <[hidden email]>
>>> Envoyé : dimanche 27 mai 2007 16:34
>>> Objet : Re: Branding
>>>
>>>
>>>> That's for the incubator. It doesn't affect OFBiz which is now a
>>> graduated top level project, so the policies are rather different
> and
>>> pretty much separate and can be found on apache.org.
>>>> -David
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> There as been a discussion recently about branding on the
> incubator
>>> ML
>>>>> Re: Branding Guide clarification (was Re: to brand or not to
> brand?)
>>>>> What is the status of OFBiz regarding this aspect ?
>>>>>
>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>
>

[Ean Schuessler]

On Monday 28 May 2007 01:35:57 pm David E Jones wrote:

> We've discussed this a bit before and nothing has changed since then. There
> is no registered trademark for OFBiz or "Apache OFBiz" or "The Open For
> Business Project" or anything else that I'm aware of related to the
> project.
>
> The only restrictions are those listed in the Apache 2.0 license.
>
> If we did try to register OFBiz or whatever as a trademark it would be very
> public and open just like everything else, and in fact getting people
> involved to help sponsor the effort and the legal costs and such would be
> necessary. A trademark is not something cheap to get started and it takes a
> LONG time to get finished, and a lot of effort including legal/government
> efforts and enforcement efforts.
>
> I don't think there is any benefit in doing this, especially not one that
> justifies the initial and ongoing cost, so chances are this will never be
> done.

This would be additionally complicated by the fact that both IBM and American
Express are actively using the phrase "Open for Business" as marketing
campaigns. Amex uses it for their small business offerings and IBM,
ironically, for their Open Source efforts. I was both pleased and discouraged
that IBM was flying a huge banner that said "Open for Business" over their
booth at JavaOne.

--
Ean Schuessler, CTO
[hidden email]
214-720-0700 x 315
Brainfood, Inc.
http://www.brainfood.com

[David E Jones]

Ean Schuessler wrote:

> On Monday 28 May 2007 01:35:57 pm David E Jones wrote:
>> We've discussed this a bit before and nothing has changed since then. There
>> is no registered trademark for OFBiz or "Apache OFBiz" or "The Open For
>> Business Project" or anything else that I'm aware of related to the
>> project.
>>
>> The only restrictions are those listed in the Apache 2.0 license.
>>
>> If we did try to register OFBiz or whatever as a trademark it would be very
>> public and open just like everything else, and in fact getting people
>> involved to help sponsor the effort and the legal costs and such would be
>> necessary. A trademark is not something cheap to get started and it takes a
>> LONG time to get finished, and a lot of effort including legal/government
>> efforts and enforcement efforts.
>>
>> I don't think there is any benefit in doing this, especially not one that
>> justifies the initial and ongoing cost, so chances are this will never be
>> done.
>
> This would be additionally complicated by the fact that both IBM and American
> Express are actively using the phrase "Open for Business" as marketing
> campaigns. Amex uses it for their small business offerings and IBM,
> ironically, for their Open Source efforts. I was both pleased and discouraged
> that IBM was flying a huge banner that said "Open for Business" over their
> booth at JavaOne.

The platitudes of creativity are inspiring, no? Maybe I should get into marketing... ;)

At least we win the google test now: searching for "open for business" we get the first result!

I'm not sure what the deal is with IBM, that might just be some cute marketing thing. With AmEx they seem to have trademarked "OPEN"... there's a fun one to enforce!

-David

[Ean Schuessler]

On Tuesday 12 June 2007 10:09:47 am David E Jones wrote:
> The platitudes of creativity are inspiring, no? Maybe I should get into
> marketing... ;)
>
> At least we win the google test now: searching for "open for business" we
> get the first result!

You have a point there. Its rather impressive, really!

> I'm not sure what the deal is with IBM, that might just be some cute
> marketing thing. With AmEx they seem to have trademarked "OPEN"... there's
> a fun one to enforce!

Truth be told, I think the name "Apache ERP" would frighten Oracle and SAP
more than anything else.

--
Ean Schuessler, CTO
[hidden email]
214-720-0700 x 315
Brainfood, Inc.
http://www.brainfood.com

[Jacques Le Roux]

De : "Ean Schuessler" <[hidden email]>
>
> Truth be told, I think the name "Apache ERP" would frighten Oracle and
SAP
> more than anything else.

IMHO, it's a bit too early for that, but why not hink about something
like that (I mean marketing at large) ?

Jacques

[Tim Ruppert]

Gotta say I love the idea of Apache ERP being in the name somewhere.  Now, changing the name of the project - that would be tough, but adding the tagline would be a WIN, WIN!

Cheers,

Tim

--

Tim Ruppert

HotWax Media

http://www.hotwaxmedia.com

o:801.649.6594

f:801.649.6595

On Jun 12, 2007, at 10:19 AM, Ean Schuessler wrote:

On Tuesday 12 June 2007 10:09:47 am David E Jones wrote:

The platitudes of creativity are inspiring, no? Maybe I should get into

marketing... ;)

At least we win the google test now: searching for "open for business" we

get the first result!

You have a point there. Its rather impressive, really!

I'm not sure what the deal is with IBM, that might just be some cute

marketing thing. With AmEx they seem to have trademarked "OPEN"... there's

a fun one to enforce!

Truth be told, I think the name "Apache ERP" would frighten Oracle and SAP 

more than anything else.

-- 

Ean Schuessler, CTO

[hidden email]

214-720-0700 x 315

Brainfood, Inc.

http://www.brainfood.com

[Ean Schuessler]

On Tuesday 12 June 2007 11:54:56 am Jacques Le Roux wrote:
> IMHO, it's a bit too early for that, but why not hink about something
> like that (I mean marketing at large) ?

Is it really too early?

http://www.brainfood.com/ApacheERP.jpg

--
Ean Schuessler, CTO
[hidden email]
214-720-0700 x 315
Brainfood, Inc.
http://www.brainfood.com

[Tim Ruppert]

Pretty cool Ean.  I would have to vote against changing the official project name - but as I said before it's way catchy and would definitely catch the eye of the SAPs of the world.

Cheers,

Tim

--

Tim Ruppert

HotWax Media

http://www.hotwaxmedia.com

o:801.649.6594

f:801.649.6595

On Jun 12, 2007, at 7:35 PM, Ean Schuessler wrote:

On Tuesday 12 June 2007 11:54:56 am Jacques Le Roux wrote:

IMHO, it's a bit too early for that, but why not hink about something

like that (I mean marketing at large) ?

Is it really too early?

http://www.brainfood.com/ApacheERP.jpg

-- 

Ean Schuessler, CTO

[hidden email]

214-720-0700 x 315

Brainfood, Inc.

http://www.brainfood.com

[Ean Schuessler]

On Tuesday 12 June 2007 09:11:54 pm Tim Ruppert wrote:
> Pretty cool Ean.  I would have to vote against changing the official
> project name - but as I said before it's way catchy and would
> definitely catch the eye of the SAPs of the world.

Maybe its just a "theme"?

--
Ean Schuessler, CTO
[hidden email]
214-720-0700 x 315
Brainfood, Inc.
http://www.brainfood.com

[Tim Ruppert]

+1

Some might even call it a vertical (although a pretty wide one :) )

Cheers,

Tim

--

Tim Ruppert

HotWax Media

http://www.hotwaxmedia.com

o:801.649.6594

f:801.649.6595

On Jun 12, 2007, at 10:20 PM, Ean Schuessler wrote:

On Tuesday 12 June 2007 09:11:54 pm Tim Ruppert wrote:

Pretty cool Ean.  I would have to vote against changing the official

project name - but as I said before it's way catchy and would

definitely catch the eye of the SAPs of the world.

Maybe its just a "theme"?

-- 

Ean Schuessler, CTO

[hidden email]

214-720-0700 x 315

Brainfood, Inc.

http://www.brainfood.com

[Jacopo Cappellato]

Hi Ean,

this is interesting but I think that the Apache Software Foundation
wouldn't like the new name.
Even if it is true that, right now, OFBiz is the only one ERP project in
the ASF, in theory it is possible that in the future a new ERP project
(different from OFBiz) will join the Foundation; the ASF will maintain
neutrality and not endorse one (our) as the official ERP software from
Apache (as the name "Apache ERP" would suggest).

Jacopo



Ean Schuessler wrote:
> On Tuesday 12 June 2007 11:54:56 am Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>> IMHO, it's a bit too early for that, but why not hink about something
>> like that (I mean marketing at large) ?
>
> Is it really too early?
>
> http://www.brainfood.com/ApacheERP.jpg
>

[Jacques Le Roux]

+1

Jacques
  ----- Message d'origine -----
  De : Tim Ruppert
  À : [hidden email]
  Envoyé : mercredi 13 juin 2007 04:11
  Objet : Re: Branding


  Pretty cool Ean.  I would have to vote against changing the official project name - but as I said before it's way catchy and would definitely catch the eye of the SAPs of the world.



  Cheers,
  Tim
  --
  Tim Ruppert
  HotWax Media
  http://www.hotwaxmedia.com


  o:801.649.6594
  f:801.649.6595




  On Jun 12, 2007, at 7:35 PM, Ean Schuessler wrote:


    On Tuesday 12 June 2007 11:54:56 am Jacques Le Roux wrote:
      IMHO, it's a bit too early for that, but why not hink about something
      like that (I mean marketing at large) ?


    Is it really too early?


    http://www.brainfood.com/ApacheERP.jpg


    --
    Ean Schuessler, CTO
    [hidden email]
    214-720-0700 x 315
    Brainfood, Inc.
    http://www.brainfood.com