Can we remove the MinML2.jar file?

[Jacopo Cappellato]

After removing the framwork/webapp/lib/MinML2.jar file I could build and
run succesfully OFBiz.

Can we remove it? For what is it used that jar?

Jacopo

[David E Jones]

Weeding out jar files is a tricky business... that one, for example,  
is used by itext if I remember right and is a runtime dependency.  
Removing it would cause problems for certain things.

-David


On Apr 6, 2007, at 5:37 AM, Jacopo Cappellato wrote:

> After removing the framwork/webapp/lib/MinML2.jar file I could  
> build and run succesfully OFBiz.
>
> Can we remove it? For what is it used that jar?
>
> Jacopo
>

[Jacopo Cappellato]

David,

yeah dependencies can be a nightmare... and maybe we should even try to
document them in some way somewhere.
However, PDF are printing fine even without the MinML2.jar and so
possibly the jar was needed by an older version of iText.
What do you think?

Jacopo


David E. Jones wrote:

>
> Weeding out jar files is a tricky business... that one, for example, is
> used by itext if I remember right and is a runtime dependency. Removing
> it would cause problems for certain things.
>
> -David
>
>
> On Apr 6, 2007, at 5:37 AM, Jacopo Cappellato wrote:
>
>> After removing the framwork/webapp/lib/MinML2.jar file I could build
>> and run succesfully OFBiz.
>>
>> Can we remove it? For what is it used that jar?
>>
>> Jacopo
>>
>

[Jacopo Cappellato]

And now I'm also running the latest itext-2.0.1.jar instead of the older
version in the trunk (itext-1.3.6.jar) and everything seems good.
Should we plan to update also the iText jar?

Jacopo

Jacopo Cappellato wrote:

> David,
>
> yeah dependencies can be a nightmare... and maybe we should even try to
> document them in some way somewhere.
> However, PDF are printing fine even without the MinML2.jar and so
> possibly the jar was needed by an older version of iText.
> What do you think?
>
> Jacopo
>
>
> David E. Jones wrote:
>>
>> Weeding out jar files is a tricky business... that one, for example,
>> is used by itext if I remember right and is a runtime dependency.
>> Removing it would cause problems for certain things.
>>
>> -David
>>
>>
>> On Apr 6, 2007, at 5:37 AM, Jacopo Cappellato wrote:
>>
>>> After removing the framwork/webapp/lib/MinML2.jar file I could build
>>> and run succesfully OFBiz.
>>>
>>> Can we remove it? For what is it used that jar?
>>>
>>> Jacopo
>>>
>>
>

[David E Jones]

We have a lot of libraries in OFBiz, and it's a pretty major effort  
to keep them all updated but certainly something we need and want to do.

Sometimes it is hard to test the updated library, and that is the  
case with itext since most of the stuff that uses it is buried in  
things like the CompDoc stuff in the Content Manager and running  
through a test scenario to use itext to combine PDF documents is  
somewhat involved. In these circumstances we can kind of go either  
way, either:

1. leave the old version so that it will more likely work the next  
time someone uses it
2. update to the latest version so that new things and things in  
general will more likely work, and version dependencies between  
libraries in OFBiz won't as likely become a problem

So, for this one they both have pluses and minuses. The best thing is  
to update and test everything that uses it, but that takes a lot of  
time and effort (both finding everything that uses it, and running  
the tests).

In other words, it's up to you, I'm fine with either way and somewhat  
favor #2...

-David


On Apr 6, 2007, at 9:08 AM, Jacopo Cappellato wrote:

> And now I'm also running the latest itext-2.0.1.jar instead of the  
> older version in the trunk (itext-1.3.6.jar) and everything seems  
> good.
> Should we plan to update also the iText jar?
>
> Jacopo
>
> Jacopo Cappellato wrote:
>> David,
>> yeah dependencies can be a nightmare... and maybe we should even  
>> try to document them in some way somewhere.
>> However, PDF are printing fine even without the MinML2.jar and so  
>> possibly the jar was needed by an older version of iText.
>> What do you think?
>> Jacopo
>> David E. Jones wrote:
>>>
>>> Weeding out jar files is a tricky business... that one, for  
>>> example, is used by itext if I remember right and is a runtime  
>>> dependency. Removing it would cause problems for certain things.
>>>
>>> -David
>>>
>>>
>>> On Apr 6, 2007, at 5:37 AM, Jacopo Cappellato wrote:
>>>
>>>> After removing the framwork/webapp/lib/MinML2.jar file I could  
>>>> build and run succesfully OFBiz.
>>>>
>>>> Can we remove it? For what is it used that jar?
>>>>
>>>> Jacopo
>>>>
>>>
>
>

[cjhowe]

Most other apache communities vote on jar changes, this allows not only
the opportunity to voice concerns but because of how mailing lists are
archived allow people to find a relative time frame of potentially
important changes which helps track down bugs.  For some reason Apache
OFBiz doesn't vote on these sorts of things.  Apache OFBiz -dev mailing
list has had a total of 10 threads with the term [VOTE] in the subject
(8 of which in regards to test releases)

I'd like it if we could discuss this policy adoption for the Apache
OFBiz project and then vote on adhering to it.

In regards to the parent thread...
Because of the "black boxiness" of jar use, shouldn't there be an
actual _reason to add, update, or delete a jar that relates to how it's
used in the community project?

If there's a feature desired, an important bug addressed, or noticeable
increased efficiency, then great, we should vote on upgrading.
However,
I don't think it's necessarily wise to be updating for updating sake.
Especially given the number of external dependencies Apache OFBiz has


--- "David E. Jones" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> We have a lot of libraries in OFBiz, and it's a pretty major effort  
> to keep them all updated but certainly something we need and want to
> do.
>
> Sometimes it is hard to test the updated library, and that is the  
> case with itext since most of the stuff that uses it is buried in  
> things like the CompDoc stuff in the Content Manager and running  
> through a test scenario to use itext to combine PDF documents is  
> somewhat involved. In these circumstances we can kind of go either  
> way, either:
>
> 1. leave the old version so that it will more likely work the next  
> time someone uses it
> 2. update to the latest version so that new things and things in  
> general will more likely work, and version dependencies between  
> libraries in OFBiz won't as likely become a problem
>
> So, for this one they both have pluses and minuses. The best thing is
>  
> to update and test everything that uses it, but that takes a lot of  
> time and effort (both finding everything that uses it, and running  
> the tests).
>
> In other words, it's up to you, I'm fine with either way and somewhat
>  
> favor #2...
>
> -David
>
>
> On Apr 6, 2007, at 9:08 AM, Jacopo Cappellato wrote:
>
> > And now I'm also running the latest itext-2.0.1.jar instead of the
>
> > older version in the trunk (itext-1.3.6.jar) and everything seems  
> > good.
> > Should we plan to update also the iText jar?
> >
> > Jacopo
> >
> > Jacopo Cappellato wrote:
> >> David,
> >> yeah dependencies can be a nightmare... and maybe we should even  
> >> try to document them in some way somewhere.
> >> However, PDF are printing fine even without the MinML2.jar and so
>
> >> possibly the jar was needed by an older version of iText.
> >> What do you think?
> >> Jacopo
> >> David E. Jones wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Weeding out jar files is a tricky business... that one, for  
> >>> example, is used by itext if I remember right and is a runtime  
> >>> dependency. Removing it would cause problems for certain things.
> >>>
> >>> -David
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Apr 6, 2007, at 5:37 AM, Jacopo Cappellato wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> After removing the framwork/webapp/lib/MinML2.jar file I could  
> >>>> build and run succesfully OFBiz.
> >>>>
> >>>> Can we remove it? For what is it used that jar?
> >>>>
> >>>> Jacopo
> >>>>
> >>>
> >
> >
>
>

[Jacopo Cappellato]

Chris Howe wrote:
> ...
> In regards to the parent thread...
> Because of the "black boxiness" of jar use, shouldn't there be an
> actual _reason to add, update, or delete a jar that relates to how it's
> used in the community project?
>

In my opinion it would be great if we could stay up-to-date with the
latest stable release, even if we don't have particular issues with the
older jars (the reasons are that newer releases are generally better
than older ones, you can get more support in case of problems, and
sometimes continuous small upgrades are less expensive than big ones).

However I know it's not always possible, mainly for two reasons:
1) jars interdependencies
2) lack of resources in the community (updating and testing could take a
lot of time)


> If there's a feature desired, an important bug addressed, or noticeable
> increased efficiency, then great, we should vote on upgrading.
> However,
> I don't think it's necessarily wise to be updating for updating sake.
> Especially given the number of external dependencies Apache OFBiz has
>

I don't think that the issue of dependencies external to the Apache
OFBiz project is a big one... if someone is building an external
application he should pick the jars to use and not rely on the ones
distributed with OFBiz.

For example, if it is true that the MinML2.jar is no more used by OFBiz
(both framework and applications) we should really remove it. If someone
has built a custom component based on the MinML2.jar (?) he will have to
package the jar in its own custom component and we have no way to
prevent this from happening.

Jacopo

[cjhowe]

--- Jacopo Cappellato <[hidden email]> wrote:

> > If there's a feature desired, an important bug addressed, or
> noticeable
> > increased efficiency, then great, we should vote on upgrading.
> > However,
> > I don't think it's necessarily wise to be updating for updating
> sake.
> > Especially given the number of external dependencies Apache OFBiz
> has
> >
>
> I don't think that the issue of dependencies external to the Apache
> OFBiz project is a big one... if someone is building an external
> application he should pick the jars to use and not rely on the ones
> distributed with OFBiz.
>
> For example, if it is true that the MinML2.jar is no more used by
> OFBiz
> (both framework and applications) we should really remove it. If
> someone
> has built a custom component based on the MinML2.jar (?) he will have
> to
> package the jar in its own custom component and we have no way to
> prevent this from happening.

I agree here, when I said "external dependencies" I was referring to
the libraries that Apache OFBiz itself depends  on, those listed in the
LICENSE file, not the libraries custom applications depend on.  

[Jacopo Cappellato]

David, all,

please see my comments inline:

David E. Jones wrote:

>
> We have a lot of libraries in OFBiz, and it's a pretty major effort to
> keep them all updated but certainly something we need and want to do.
>
> Sometimes it is hard to test the updated library, and that is the case
> with itext since most of the stuff that uses it is buried in things like
> the CompDoc stuff in the Content Manager and running through a test
> scenario to use itext to combine PDF documents is somewhat involved. In
> these circumstances we can kind of go either way, either:
>
> 1. leave the old version so that it will more likely work the next time
> someone uses it
> 2. update to the latest version so that new things and things in general
> will more likely work, and version dependencies between libraries in
> OFBiz won't as likely become a problem
>

I've searched for the string "lowagie" (part of the package name for the
classes in the iText jar) and the only classes that are using them are:

org.ofbiz.content.compdoc.CompDocServices
org.ofbiz.content.survey.SurveyServices

They both compile fine with the new upgraded iText jar but I don't know
how to test them.
Could you please give me any pointers?
I'd like to verify if they run properly with the new jar and also try to
remove the MinML2.jar file...

Thanks,

Jacopo

> So, for this one they both have pluses and minuses. The best thing is to
> update and test everything that uses it, but that takes a lot of time
> and effort (both finding everything that uses it, and running the tests).
>
> In other words, it's up to you, I'm fine with either way and somewhat
> favor #2...
>
> -David
>
>
> On Apr 6, 2007, at 9:08 AM, Jacopo Cappellato wrote:
>
>> And now I'm also running the latest itext-2.0.1.jar instead of the
>> older version in the trunk (itext-1.3.6.jar) and everything seems good.
>> Should we plan to update also the iText jar?
>>
>> Jacopo
>>
>> Jacopo Cappellato wrote:
>>> David,
>>> yeah dependencies can be a nightmare... and maybe we should even try
>>> to document them in some way somewhere.
>>> However, PDF are printing fine even without the MinML2.jar and so
>>> possibly the jar was needed by an older version of iText.
>>> What do you think?
>>> Jacopo
>>> David E. Jones wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Weeding out jar files is a tricky business... that one, for example,
>>>> is used by itext if I remember right and is a runtime dependency.
>>>> Removing it would cause problems for certain things.
>>>>
>>>> -David
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 6, 2007, at 5:37 AM, Jacopo Cappellato wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> After removing the framwork/webapp/lib/MinML2.jar file I could
>>>>> build and run succesfully OFBiz.
>>>>>
>>>>> Can we remove it? For what is it used that jar?
>>>>>
>>>>> Jacopo
>>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>

[David E Jones]

I'm pretty sure iText (or something) depended on MinML2 even though I  
don't believe anything in OFBiz uses it directly.

To test it the easiest thing is probably to create a CompDoc Template  
with 2 PDF place holders, then create an instance of that CompDoc and  
upload 2 PDFs, then have it generate the combined PDF. That will use  
iText to create the combined output file.

-David


On May 1, 2007, at 6:26 AM, Jacopo Cappellato wrote:

> David, all,
>
> please see my comments inline:
>
> David E. Jones wrote:
>> We have a lot of libraries in OFBiz, and it's a pretty major  
>> effort to keep them all updated but certainly something we need  
>> and want to do.
>> Sometimes it is hard to test the updated library, and that is the  
>> case with itext since most of the stuff that uses it is buried in  
>> things like the CompDoc stuff in the Content Manager and running  
>> through a test scenario to use itext to combine PDF documents is  
>> somewhat involved. In these circumstances we can kind of go either  
>> way, either:
>> 1. leave the old version so that it will more likely work the next  
>> time someone uses it
>> 2. update to the latest version so that new things and things in  
>> general will more likely work, and version dependencies between  
>> libraries in OFBiz won't as likely become a problem
>
> I've searched for the string "lowagie" (part of the package name  
> for the classes in the iText jar) and the only classes that are  
> using them are:
>
> org.ofbiz.content.compdoc.CompDocServices
> org.ofbiz.content.survey.SurveyServices
>
> They both compile fine with the new upgraded iText jar but I don't  
> know how to test them.
> Could you please give me any pointers?
> I'd like to verify if they run properly with the new jar and also  
> try to remove the MinML2.jar file...
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jacopo
>
>
>> So, for this one they both have pluses and minuses. The best thing  
>> is to update and test everything that uses it, but that takes a  
>> lot of time and effort (both finding everything that uses it, and  
>> running the tests).
>> In other words, it's up to you, I'm fine with either way and  
>> somewhat favor #2...
>> -David
>> On Apr 6, 2007, at 9:08 AM, Jacopo Cappellato wrote:
>>> And now I'm also running the latest itext-2.0.1.jar instead of  
>>> the older version in the trunk (itext-1.3.6.jar) and everything  
>>> seems good.
>>> Should we plan to update also the iText jar?
>>>
>>> Jacopo
>>>
>>> Jacopo Cappellato wrote:
>>>> David,
>>>> yeah dependencies can be a nightmare... and maybe we should even  
>>>> try to document them in some way somewhere.
>>>> However, PDF are printing fine even without the MinML2.jar and  
>>>> so possibly the jar was needed by an older version of iText.
>>>> What do you think?
>>>> Jacopo
>>>> David E. Jones wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Weeding out jar files is a tricky business... that one, for  
>>>>> example, is used by itext if I remember right and is a runtime  
>>>>> dependency. Removing it would cause problems for certain things.
>>>>>
>>>>> -David
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 6, 2007, at 5:37 AM, Jacopo Cappellato wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> After removing the framwork/webapp/lib/MinML2.jar file I could  
>>>>>> build and run succesfully OFBiz.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Can we remove it? For what is it used that jar?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jacopo
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>

[Jacopo Cappellato]

David,

testing the following link is the same?

https://demo.hotwaxmedia.com/content/control/GenContentPdf?contentId=CDI1103&caSequenceNum=30

I'm having some problems (caused by my lack of knowledge on the content
component) setting up what you have described.

Jacopo

David E. Jones wrote:

>
> I'm pretty sure iText (or something) depended on MinML2 even though I
> don't believe anything in OFBiz uses it directly.
>
> To test it the easiest thing is probably to create a CompDoc Template
> with 2 PDF place holders, then create an instance of that CompDoc and
> upload 2 PDFs, then have it generate the combined PDF. That will use
> iText to create the combined output file.
>
> -David
>

[Jacopo Cappellato]

By the way I've finally tracked down digging in the commit logs (from
sourceforge!) from where the MinML2.jar file came.
It was in the Datavision distribution.

I'm adding this runtime dependency to the page:

http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBADMIN/Libraries+Included+in+OFBiz

and I will upgrade soon iText to the latest version.

Is it ok?

Jacopo


Jacopo Cappellato wrote:

> David,
>
> testing the following link is the same?
>
> https://demo.hotwaxmedia.com/content/control/GenContentPdf?contentId=CDI1103&caSequenceNum=30 
>
>
> I'm having some problems (caused by my lack of knowledge on the content
> component) setting up what you have described.
>
> Jacopo
>
> David E. Jones wrote:
>>
>> I'm pretty sure iText (or something) depended on MinML2 even though I
>> don't believe anything in OFBiz uses it directly.
>>
>> To test it the easiest thing is probably to create a CompDoc Template
>> with 2 PDF place holders, then create an instance of that CompDoc and
>> upload 2 PDFs, then have it generate the combined PDF. That will use
>> iText to create the combined output file.
>>
>> -David
>>
>

[David E Jones]

Yeah, something like that. I noticed you put in the new version of  
iText, and that's great. I don't know if the demo.hwm.com server  
refreshed this morning before or after that, but if it worked in your  
local tests then we should be good.

-David


On May 2, 2007, at 1:32 AM, Jacopo Cappellato wrote:

> David,
>
> testing the following link is the same?
>
> https://demo.hotwaxmedia.com/content/control/GenContentPdf?
> contentId=CDI1103&caSequenceNum=30
>
> I'm having some problems (caused by my lack of knowledge on the  
> content component) setting up what you have described.
>
> Jacopo
>
> David E. Jones wrote:
>> I'm pretty sure iText (or something) depended on MinML2 even  
>> though I don't believe anything in OFBiz uses it directly.
>> To test it the easiest thing is probably to create a CompDoc  
>> Template with 2 PDF place holders, then create an instance of that  
>> CompDoc and upload 2 PDFs, then have it generate the combined PDF.  
>> That will use iText to create the combined output file.
>> -David
>
>

[PhantomsHorridC]

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