Cost Centers Accounts Screen

[Vikas Mayur-2]

In OFBiz demo data there are three cost centers namely cost center 1, 2 & 3. The GlAccountCategoryMember associate GL Accounts to a particular cost center. At the moment only three GL Accounts are added to these cost centers. When you go to Accounting > Global Gl Settings > Cost Centers screen it shows all the accounts that are related to the organization party Id while it should only show the accounts related to cost centers?

Regards
Vikas

[Pierre Smits]

Vikas,

New cost centers can be added through the 'GL Account Category' menu item.
See:

https://demo-trunk.ofbiz.apache.org:8443/accounting/control/FindGlAccountCategory

If you then go to 'Cost Centers', you'll see newly added cost centers (if
any), plus an overview of all assigned gl accounts. As a means to easily
manage percentual aspects of costs related to cost centers. As such it
makes sense.

If you want an overview per cost center, you'll have to go back to the 'GL
Account Category' menu item, select the cost center of choice and go to the
'GL Account Category Member' overview. See:

vhttps://
demo-trunk.ofbiz.apache.org:8443/accounting/control/EditGlAccountCategoryMember?glAccountCategoryId=9301

Regards,

Pierre

2012/5/29 Vikas Mayur <[hidden email]>

> In OFBiz demo data there are three cost centers namely cost center 1, 2 &
> 3. The GlAccountCategoryMember associate GL Accounts to a particular cost
> center. At the moment only three GL Accounts are added to these cost
> centers. When you go to Accounting > Global Gl Settings > Cost Centers
> screen it shows all the accounts that are related to the organization party
> Id while it should only show the accounts related to cost centers?
>
> Regards
> Vikas

[Vikas Mayur-2]

Ok, I'll work on a fix since all the gl accounts assigned to the parent organization 'Company' are showing up in the cost centers screen while the only accounts associated to cost centers should show up.

Thanks
Vikas

On May 29, 2012, at 2:57 PM, Pierre Smits wrote:

> Vikas,
>
> New cost centers can be added through the 'GL Account Category' menu item.
> See:
>
> https://demo-trunk.ofbiz.apache.org:8443/accounting/control/FindGlAccountCategory
>
> If you then go to 'Cost Centers', you'll see newly added cost centers (if
> any), plus an overview of all assigned gl accounts. As a means to easily
> manage percentual aspects of costs related to cost centers. As such it
> makes sense.
>
> If you want an overview per cost center, you'll have to go back to the 'GL
> Account Category' menu item, select the cost center of choice and go to the
> 'GL Account Category Member' overview. See:
>
> vhttps://
> demo-trunk.ofbiz.apache.org:8443/accounting/control/EditGlAccountCategoryMember?glAccountCategoryId=9301
>
> Regards,
>
> Pierre
>
> 2012/5/29 Vikas Mayur <[hidden email]>
>
>> In OFBiz demo data there are three cost centers namely cost center 1, 2 &
>> 3. The GlAccountCategoryMember associate GL Accounts to a particular cost
>> center. At the moment only three GL Accounts are added to these cost
>> centers. When you go to Accounting > Global Gl Settings > Cost Centers
>> screen it shows all the accounts that are related to the organization party
>> Id while it should only show the accounts related to cost centers?
>>
>> Regards
>> Vikas

[Pierre Smits]

Please don't.

Showing all accounts of the parent organisations was intentional, so
changes could be effected in one overview/screen/form.

2012/5/29 Vikas Mayur <[hidden email]>

> Ok, I'll work on a fix since all the gl accounts assigned to the parent
> organization 'Company' are showing up in the cost centers screen while the
> only accounts associated to cost centers should show up.
>
> Thanks
> Vikas
>
> On May 29, 2012, at 2:57 PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>
> > Vikas,
> >
> > New cost centers can be added through the 'GL Account Category' menu
> item.
> > See:
> >
> >
> https://demo-trunk.ofbiz.apache.org:8443/accounting/control/FindGlAccountCategory
> >
> > If you then go to 'Cost Centers', you'll see newly added cost centers (if
> > any), plus an overview of all assigned gl accounts. As a means to easily
> > manage percentual aspects of costs related to cost centers. As such it
> > makes sense.
> >
> > If you want an overview per cost center, you'll have to go back to the
> 'GL
> > Account Category' menu item, select the cost center of choice and go to
> the
> > 'GL Account Category Member' overview. See:
> >
> > vhttps://
> >
> demo-trunk.ofbiz.apache.org:8443/accounting/control/EditGlAccountCategoryMember?glAccountCategoryId=9301
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Pierre
> >
> > 2012/5/29 Vikas Mayur <[hidden email]>
> >
> >> In OFBiz demo data there are three cost centers namely cost center 1, 2
> &
> >> 3. The GlAccountCategoryMember associate GL Accounts to a particular
> cost
> >> center. At the moment only three GL Accounts are added to these cost
> >> centers. When you go to Accounting > Global Gl Settings > Cost Centers
> >> screen it shows all the accounts that are related to the organization
> party
> >> Id while it should only show the accounts related to cost centers?
> >>
> >> Regards
> >> Vikas
>
>

[Jacopo Cappellato-4]

Vikas, Pierre,

it would be useful if you both could provide a simple use case of the screen to highlight why you think it should work in that way; then we could take a more informed decision.

Jacopo

On May 31, 2012, at 10:05 AM, Pierre Smits wrote:

> Please don't.
>
> Showing all accounts of the parent organisations was intentional, so
> changes could be effected in one overview/screen/form.
>
> 2012/5/29 Vikas Mayur <[hidden email]>
>
>> Ok, I'll work on a fix since all the gl accounts assigned to the parent
>> organization 'Company' are showing up in the cost centers screen while the
>> only accounts associated to cost centers should show up.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Vikas
>>
>> On May 29, 2012, at 2:57 PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>>
>>> Vikas,
>>>
>>> New cost centers can be added through the 'GL Account Category' menu
>> item.
>>> See:
>>>
>>>
>> https://demo-trunk.ofbiz.apache.org:8443/accounting/control/FindGlAccountCategory
>>>
>>> If you then go to 'Cost Centers', you'll see newly added cost centers (if
>>> any), plus an overview of all assigned gl accounts. As a means to easily
>>> manage percentual aspects of costs related to cost centers. As such it
>>> makes sense.
>>>
>>> If you want an overview per cost center, you'll have to go back to the
>> 'GL
>>> Account Category' menu item, select the cost center of choice and go to
>> the
>>> 'GL Account Category Member' overview. See:
>>>
>>> vhttps://
>>>
>> demo-trunk.ofbiz.apache.org:8443/accounting/control/EditGlAccountCategoryMember?glAccountCategoryId=9301
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Pierre
>>>
>>> 2012/5/29 Vikas Mayur <[hidden email]>
>>>
>>>> In OFBiz demo data there are three cost centers namely cost center 1, 2
>> &
>>>> 3. The GlAccountCategoryMember associate GL Accounts to a particular
>> cost
>>>> center. At the moment only three GL Accounts are added to these cost
>>>> centers. When you go to Accounting > Global Gl Settings > Cost Centers
>>>> screen it shows all the accounts that are related to the organization
>> party
>>>> Id while it should only show the accounts related to cost centers?
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>> Vikas
>>
>>

[Vikas Mayur-2]

Pierre, I really don't know whether it was intentional to show all the accounts of the organization because I don't see any such discussion in the past except couple of jira issues. Perhaps the author of the code could throw some light.

Jacopo, I support the idea of just showing only the accounts related to the cost centers based on the following use case / theory. Let me know if you think otherwise.

Cost centers are part of the organization (could be division/department) which adds to the cost of an organization. Lets say the organization have three divisions namely Sales & Marketing, Customer Service & Operations where each division have a certain number of employees for its operation. Suppose, the organization gives health insurance to each employee which is an expense account. To know the cost (% of total expense) of health insurance by each division, the organization will setup three cost centers, one for each division. This would basically means that the health insurance account is now also associated to each cost center with an amount percentage of the total expense. There could be other accounts where the organization would like to know the expenses by each division / cost center and such accounts can also be associated to these cost centers.

Now, if there are any other accounts since all the accounts won't be just for expenses then why we would be needing those accounts on cost center? If, the organization need some of them at some point of time they can be added to cost centers in similar manner.

PS - I don't find any other way to know whether the cost center belongs to parent organization or any other internal organization except by looking at the gl account(s) of the organization which is/are associated to the cost centers via GlAccountCategoryMember entity. I believe we just setup cost centers through GlAccountCategory (with type COST CENTER) and the gl accounts associated to cost centers will denote which organization(s) are related to the cost centers. We perhaps need to simplify the service that generates the data for cost centers screen, it contains lot of iteration code to build a data in such a simple form.

Regards
Vikas

On May 31, 2012, at 7:46 PM, Jacopo Cappellato wrote:

> Vikas, Pierre,
>
> it would be useful if you both could provide a simple use case of the screen to highlight why you think it should work in that way; then we could take a more informed decision.
>
> Jacopo
>
> On May 31, 2012, at 10:05 AM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>
>> Please don't.
>>
>> Showing all accounts of the parent organisations was intentional, so
>> changes could be effected in one overview/screen/form.
>>
>> 2012/5/29 Vikas Mayur <[hidden email]>
>>
>>> Ok, I'll work on a fix since all the gl accounts assigned to the parent
>>> organization 'Company' are showing up in the cost centers screen while the
>>> only accounts associated to cost centers should show up.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Vikas
>>>
>>> On May 29, 2012, at 2:57 PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>>>
>>>> Vikas,
>>>>
>>>> New cost centers can be added through the 'GL Account Category' menu
>>> item.
>>>> See:
>>>>
>>>>
>>> https://demo-trunk.ofbiz.apache.org:8443/accounting/control/FindGlAccountCategory
>>>>
>>>> If you then go to 'Cost Centers', you'll see newly added cost centers (if
>>>> any), plus an overview of all assigned gl accounts. As a means to easily
>>>> manage percentual aspects of costs related to cost centers. As such it
>>>> makes sense.
>>>>
>>>> If you want an overview per cost center, you'll have to go back to the
>>> 'GL
>>>> Account Category' menu item, select the cost center of choice and go to
>>> the
>>>> 'GL Account Category Member' overview. See:
>>>>
>>>> vhttps://
>>>>
>>> demo-trunk.ofbiz.apache.org:8443/accounting/control/EditGlAccountCategoryMember?glAccountCategoryId=9301
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Pierre
>>>>
>>>> 2012/5/29 Vikas Mayur <[hidden email]>
>>>>
>>>>> In OFBiz demo data there are three cost centers namely cost center 1, 2
>>> &
>>>>> 3. The GlAccountCategoryMember associate GL Accounts to a particular
>>> cost
>>>>> center. At the moment only three GL Accounts are added to these cost
>>>>> centers. When you go to Accounting > Global Gl Settings > Cost Centers
>>>>> screen it shows all the accounts that are related to the organization
>>> party
>>>>> Id while it should only show the accounts related to cost centers?
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards
>>>>> Vikas
>>>
>>>
>

[Pierre Smits]

While Vikas does a great job explaining why there is a need for cost
centers, he doesn't address the issue of why the change should be
implemented.

Before the commit following functionalities were available:

   1. Create cost
centers<https://demo-trunk.ofbiz.apache.org:8443/accounting/control/FindGlAccountCategory>
   2. Get per cost center an overview of related GL Accounts and add new
   ones<https://demo-trunk.ofbiz.apache.org:8443/accounting/control/EditGlAccountCategoryMember?glAccountCategoryId=9301>
   3. Have one entry form where the administrator of a company, subsidiary
   or department could add, edit and delete associated GL for all cost centers
   available based on all GL Accounts available to said entity. Having this
   form the administrator only had to enter a percentage number for the
   appropriate cost center and when clicking the submit button the association
   (or mapping) between cost center and GL Account was created or modified.

After the commit the functionality of item 3 is reduced to only showing the
accounts for which a mapping has been created. If an administrator needs to
add a new mapping he/she than has to go to functionality 2 to create it,
and repeat that step over and over until all associations are created.

In a sense this reduction of functionality means a reduction of user
experience. Having been a financial controller for many years in various
SMEs and having worked with all kinds of administrators I know that ease of
use of functionalities is something that is always highly appreciated.

If Vikas wanted to provide an overview of only associated GL Accounts to
all cost centers, he should have added a new
functionality in stead of diminishing the existing one. Actually, having
one that is read-only (and/or exportable/printable) would make sense.

Regards,

Pierre


2012/6/1 Vikas Mayur <[hidden email]>

> Pierre, I really don't know whether it was intentional to show all the
> accounts of the organization because I don't see any such discussion in the
> past except couple of jira issues. Perhaps the author of the code could
> throw some light.
>
> Jacopo, I support the idea of just showing only the accounts related to
> the cost centers based on the following use case / theory. Let me know if
> you think otherwise.
>
> Cost centers are part of the organization (could be division/department)
> which adds to the cost of an organization. Lets say the organization have
> three divisions namely Sales & Marketing, Customer Service & Operations
> where each division have a certain number of employees for its operation.
> Suppose, the organization gives health insurance to each employee which is
> an expense account. To know the cost (% of total expense) of health
> insurance by each division, the organization will setup three cost centers,
> one for each division. This would basically means that the health insurance
> account is now also associated to each cost center with an amount
> percentage of the total expense. There could be other accounts where the
> organization would like to know the expenses by each division / cost center
> and such accounts can also be associated to these cost centers.
>
> Now, if there are any other accounts since all the accounts won't be just
> for expenses then why we would be needing those accounts on cost center?
> If, the organization need some of them at some point of time they can be
> added to cost centers in similar manner.
>
> PS - I don't find any other way to know whether the cost center belongs to
> parent organization or any other internal organization except by looking at
> the gl account(s) of the organization which is/are associated to the cost
> centers via GlAccountCategoryMember entity. I believe we just setup cost
> centers through GlAccountCategory (with type COST CENTER) and the gl
> accounts associated to cost centers will denote which organization(s) are
> related to the cost centers. We perhaps need to simplify the service that
> generates the data for cost centers screen, it contains lot of iteration
> code to build a data in such a simple form.
>
> Regards
> Vikas
>
> On May 31, 2012, at 7:46 PM, Jacopo Cappellato wrote:
>
> > Vikas, Pierre,
> >
> > it would be useful if you both could provide a simple use case of the
> screen to highlight why you think it should work in that way; then we could
> take a more informed decision.
> >
> > Jacopo
> >
> > On May 31, 2012, at 10:05 AM, Pierre Smits wrote:
> >
> >> Please don't.
> >>
> >> Showing all accounts of the parent organisations was intentional, so
> >> changes could be effected in one overview/screen/form.
> >>
> >> 2012/5/29 Vikas Mayur <[hidden email]>
> >>
> >>> Ok, I'll work on a fix since all the gl accounts assigned to the parent
> >>> organization 'Company' are showing up in the cost centers screen while
> the
> >>> only accounts associated to cost centers should show up.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks
> >>> Vikas
> >>>
> >>> On May 29, 2012, at 2:57 PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Vikas,
> >>>>
> >>>> New cost centers can be added through the 'GL Account Category' menu
> >>> item.
> >>>> See:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> https://demo-trunk.ofbiz.apache.org:8443/accounting/control/FindGlAccountCategory
> >>>>
> >>>> If you then go to 'Cost Centers', you'll see newly added cost centers
> (if
> >>>> any), plus an overview of all assigned gl accounts. As a means to
> easily
> >>>> manage percentual aspects of costs related to cost centers. As such it
> >>>> makes sense.
> >>>>
> >>>> If you want an overview per cost center, you'll have to go back to the
> >>> 'GL
> >>>> Account Category' menu item, select the cost center of choice and go
> to
> >>> the
> >>>> 'GL Account Category Member' overview. See:
> >>>>
> >>>> vhttps://
> >>>>
> >>>
> demo-trunk.ofbiz.apache.org:8443/accounting/control/EditGlAccountCategoryMember?glAccountCategoryId=9301
> >>>>
> >>>> Regards,
> >>>>
> >>>> Pierre
> >>>>
> >>>> 2012/5/29 Vikas Mayur <[hidden email]>
> >>>>
> >>>>> In OFBiz demo data there are three cost centers namely cost center
> 1, 2
> >>> &
> >>>>> 3. The GlAccountCategoryMember associate GL Accounts to a particular
> >>> cost
> >>>>> center. At the moment only three GL Accounts are added to these cost
> >>>>> centers. When you go to Accounting > Global Gl Settings > Cost
> Centers
> >>>>> screen it shows all the accounts that are related to the organization
> >>> party
> >>>>> Id while it should only show the accounts related to cost centers?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Regards
> >>>>> Vikas
> >>>
> >>>
> >
>
>

[Jacopo Cappellato-4]

Vikas,

could you please reply to these notes?

Thank you,

Jacopo

On Jun 2, 2012, at 11:01 AM, Pierre Smits wrote:

> While Vikas does a great job explaining why there is a need for cost
> centers, he doesn't address the issue of why the change should be
> implemented.
>
> Before the commit following functionalities were available:
>
>   1. Create cost
> centers<https://demo-trunk.ofbiz.apache.org:8443/accounting/control/FindGlAccountCategory>
>   2. Get per cost center an overview of related GL Accounts and add new
>   ones<https://demo-trunk.ofbiz.apache.org:8443/accounting/control/EditGlAccountCategoryMember?glAccountCategoryId=9301>
>   3. Have one entry form where the administrator of a company, subsidiary
>   or department could add, edit and delete associated GL for all cost centers
>   available based on all GL Accounts available to said entity. Having this
>   form the administrator only had to enter a percentage number for the
>   appropriate cost center and when clicking the submit button the association
>   (or mapping) between cost center and GL Account was created or modified.
>
> After the commit the functionality of item 3 is reduced to only showing the
> accounts for which a mapping has been created. If an administrator needs to
> add a new mapping he/she than has to go to functionality 2 to create it,
> and repeat that step over and over until all associations are created.
>
> In a sense this reduction of functionality means a reduction of user
> experience. Having been a financial controller for many years in various
> SMEs and having worked with all kinds of administrators I know that ease of
> use of functionalities is something that is always highly appreciated.
>
> If Vikas wanted to provide an overview of only associated GL Accounts to
> all cost centers, he should have added a new
> functionality in stead of diminishing the existing one. Actually, having
> one that is read-only (and/or exportable/printable) would make sense.
>
> Regards,
>
> Pierre
>
>
> 2012/6/1 Vikas Mayur <[hidden email]>
>
>> Pierre, I really don't know whether it was intentional to show all the
>> accounts of the organization because I don't see any such discussion in the
>> past except couple of jira issues. Perhaps the author of the code could
>> throw some light.
>>
>> Jacopo, I support the idea of just showing only the accounts related to
>> the cost centers based on the following use case / theory. Let me know if
>> you think otherwise.
>>
>> Cost centers are part of the organization (could be division/department)
>> which adds to the cost of an organization. Lets say the organization have
>> three divisions namely Sales & Marketing, Customer Service & Operations
>> where each division have a certain number of employees for its operation.
>> Suppose, the organization gives health insurance to each employee which is
>> an expense account. To know the cost (% of total expense) of health
>> insurance by each division, the organization will setup three cost centers,
>> one for each division. This would basically means that the health insurance
>> account is now also associated to each cost center with an amount
>> percentage of the total expense. There could be other accounts where the
>> organization would like to know the expenses by each division / cost center
>> and such accounts can also be associated to these cost centers.
>>
>> Now, if there are any other accounts since all the accounts won't be just
>> for expenses then why we would be needing those accounts on cost center?
>> If, the organization need some of them at some point of time they can be
>> added to cost centers in similar manner.
>>
>> PS - I don't find any other way to know whether the cost center belongs to
>> parent organization or any other internal organization except by looking at
>> the gl account(s) of the organization which is/are associated to the cost
>> centers via GlAccountCategoryMember entity. I believe we just setup cost
>> centers through GlAccountCategory (with type COST CENTER) and the gl
>> accounts associated to cost centers will denote which organization(s) are
>> related to the cost centers. We perhaps need to simplify the service that
>> generates the data for cost centers screen, it contains lot of iteration
>> code to build a data in such a simple form.
>>
>> Regards
>> Vikas
>>
>> On May 31, 2012, at 7:46 PM, Jacopo Cappellato wrote:
>>
>>> Vikas, Pierre,
>>>
>>> it would be useful if you both could provide a simple use case of the
>> screen to highlight why you think it should work in that way; then we could
>> take a more informed decision.
>>>
>>> Jacopo
>>>
>>> On May 31, 2012, at 10:05 AM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>>>
>>>> Please don't.
>>>>
>>>> Showing all accounts of the parent organisations was intentional, so
>>>> changes could be effected in one overview/screen/form.
>>>>
>>>> 2012/5/29 Vikas Mayur <[hidden email]>
>>>>
>>>>> Ok, I'll work on a fix since all the gl accounts assigned to the parent
>>>>> organization 'Company' are showing up in the cost centers screen while
>> the
>>>>> only accounts associated to cost centers should show up.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>> Vikas
>>>>>
>>>>> On May 29, 2012, at 2:57 PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Vikas,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> New cost centers can be added through the 'GL Account Category' menu
>>>>> item.
>>>>>> See:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>> https://demo-trunk.ofbiz.apache.org:8443/accounting/control/FindGlAccountCategory
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you then go to 'Cost Centers', you'll see newly added cost centers
>> (if
>>>>>> any), plus an overview of all assigned gl accounts. As a means to
>> easily
>>>>>> manage percentual aspects of costs related to cost centers. As such it
>>>>>> makes sense.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you want an overview per cost center, you'll have to go back to the
>>>>> 'GL
>>>>>> Account Category' menu item, select the cost center of choice and go
>> to
>>>>> the
>>>>>> 'GL Account Category Member' overview. See:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> vhttps://
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>> demo-trunk.ofbiz.apache.org:8443/accounting/control/EditGlAccountCategoryMember?glAccountCategoryId=9301
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pierre
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2012/5/29 Vikas Mayur <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In OFBiz demo data there are three cost centers namely cost center
>> 1, 2
>>>>> &
>>>>>>> 3. The GlAccountCategoryMember associate GL Accounts to a particular
>>>>> cost
>>>>>>> center. At the moment only three GL Accounts are added to these cost
>>>>>>> centers. When you go to Accounting > Global Gl Settings > Cost
>> Centers
>>>>>>> screen it shows all the accounts that are related to the organization
>>>>> party
>>>>>>> Id while it should only show the accounts related to cost centers?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>> Vikas
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>
>>

[thrivikram]

Hi

Please help me in finding the exact difference between the cost center and a billing account in ofbiz.