Dev - ASF - JIRA

[davidnwelton]

I opened this up, but you guys (specifically, whoever runs JIRA on
your side) need to add some information to make sure the
infrastructure guys can act on it.

https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-713

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[David E. Jones]

Is this something we should do before we move the code base over? For  
the SVN move there seem to be 2 major things to be done:

- remove LGPL dependencies (and Minerva since there's no way we'll  
get a license grant for that)

- get license grant documents from all we need to (which may be all  
current and past contributors, so this could take some time)

If I understand it right we can take care of the license grant issue  
after going into incubation, but we shouldn't be putting questionable  
code or libraries into the ASF repository. Does that sound right?

For the Jira migration: it looks like there is an option to backup to  
XML, but it backs up the entire database and not just one project  
(and we have quite a few projects on that server)... So I'm not sure  
how that will work.

-David


On Feb 6, 2006, at 1:23 PM, David Welton wrote:

> I opened this up, but you guys (specifically, whoever runs JIRA on
> your side) need to add some information to make sure the
> infrastructure guys can act on it.
>
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-713
>
> --
> David N. Welton
>  - http://www.dedasys.com/davidw/
>
> Linux, Open Source Consulting
>  - http://www.dedasys.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/dev

 
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[davidnwelton]

> Is this something we should do before we move the code base over? For
> the SVN move there seem to be 2 major things to be done:

Yeah, I think doing JIRA and the mailing lists first is a good way of
getting started with interacting with the ASF.  They should be easy to
do pretty much atomically, and all you have to do on your side is
change the links on the web site.

> - remove LGPL dependencies (and Minerva since there's no way we'll
> get a license grant for that)

The dependencies themselves are ok as long as you're still in
incubation, but LGPL code itself should not go into the ASF's SVN!

> - get license grant documents from all we need to (which may be all
> current and past contributors, so this could take some time)

That is something else that should go to the legal list, I think,
because I don't understand what the ramifications are of, say, not
being able to find someone.

> If I understand it right we can take care of the license grant issue
> after going into incubation, but we shouldn't be putting questionable
> code or libraries into the ASF repository. Does that sound right?

Right, but do get started on the licensing stuff, that is in some ways
the most important bit of this process as far as the ASF is concerned.
 You don't get SVN accounts until you do the iCLA's, so that's the
very first thing to do, and it's not that bad - just fill out the
form, read it, sign it, and fax it.

> For the Jira migration: it looks like there is an option to backup to
> XML, but it backs up the entire database and not just one project
> (and we have quite a few projects on that server)... So I'm not sure
> how that will work.

You might start attaching this information to the JIRA issue I opened
- perhaps someone on that end has an idea of how things can be done
smoothly.

--
David N. Welton
 - http://www.dedasys.com/davidw/

Linux, Open Source Consulting
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[Martin van den Bemt]

>
>>- remove LGPL dependencies (and Minerva since there's no way we'll
>>get a license grant for that)
>
>
> The dependencies themselves are ok as long as you're still in
> incubation, but LGPL code itself should not go into the ASF's SVN!

While in incbuator this is not a problem, though you cannot put that in an ASF release (just using
roller as a reference). Jackrabbit has similar issues (Hibernate dependency), but they decided not
to put in the release (or something similar)

Mvgr,
Martin
 
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[Jacopo Cappellato]

Hi Martin,

are you saying that, while in Incubator, we could also put LGPLed jars
in the SVN repository, if we don't make an OFBiz release?

This would be interesting for the very first days of incubation.

Jacopo

Martin van den Bemt wrote:

>>> - remove LGPL dependencies (and Minerva since there's no way we'll
>>> get a license grant for that)
>>
>> The dependencies themselves are ok as long as you're still in
>> incubation, but LGPL code itself should not go into the ASF's SVN!
>
> While in incbuator this is not a problem, though you cannot put that in an ASF release (just using
> roller as a reference). Jackrabbit has similar issues (Hibernate dependency), but they decided not
> to put in the release (or something similar)
>
> Mvgr,
> Martin
>  
> _______________________________________________
> Dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/dev
>

 
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[Jacopo Cappellato]

I did some more research on this and it seems that it is possible to put
LGPLed jars in the Incubator's svn server; see for example the "Roller"
project jars:
http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/roller/trunk/contrib/lib/

For example the JSPWiki.jar is LGPL licensed, as clearly stated here:

http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/roller/trunk/README.txt

Even if I think that removing all the LGPL jars is still one of the high
priority tasks, this will probably simplify things for the very first
steps in the Incubator...

What do you think of this?

Jacopo


Jacopo Cappellato wrote:

> Hi Martin,
>
> are you saying that, while in Incubator, we could also put LGPLed jars
> in the SVN repository, if we don't make an OFBiz release?
>
> This would be interesting for the very first days of incubation.
>
> Jacopo
>
> Martin van den Bemt wrote:
>>>> - remove LGPL dependencies (and Minerva since there's no way we'll
>>>> get a license grant for that)
>>> The dependencies themselves are ok as long as you're still in
>>> incubation, but LGPL code itself should not go into the ASF's SVN!
>> While in incbuator this is not a problem, though you cannot put that in an ASF release (just using
>> roller as a reference). Jackrabbit has similar issues (Hibernate dependency), but they decided not
>> to put in the release (or something similar)
>>
>> Mvgr,
>> Martin
>>  
>> _______________________________________________
>> Dev mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/dev
>>
>
>  
> _______________________________________________
> Dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/dev
>

 
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[davidnwelton]

On 2/8/06, Jacopo Cappellato <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I did some more research on this and it seems that it is possible to put
> LGPLed jars in the Incubator's svn server; see for example the "Roller"
> project jars:
> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/roller/trunk/contrib/lib/
>
> For example the JSPWiki.jar is LGPL licensed, as clearly stated here:
>
> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/roller/trunk/README.txt
>
> Even if I think that removing all the LGPL jars is still one of the high
> priority tasks, this will probably simplify things for the very first
> steps in the Incubator...
>
> What do you think of this?

I was going by what Leo Simmons said here:

"No. It needs to happen prior to making any kind of release, and no LGPL
code or binaries should touch our SVN. But working on removing such a
dependency while within the incubator is okay."

Depends on what you guys want to do, but I think it would be easiest
to resolve things in your own subversion so that there are no other
issues ("hey, who do I ask to get this working!?"), but it depends on
what sort of timeline you foresee, as well, which I can't really
estimate.  This would make things simpler, also.

--
David N. Welton
 - http://www.dedasys.com/davidw/

Linux, Open Source Consulting
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[David E. Jones]

On Feb 8, 2006, at 12:43 AM, David Welton wrote:

> On 2/8/06, Jacopo Cappellato <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I did some more research on this and it seems that it is possible  
>> to put
>> LGPLed jars in the Incubator's svn server; see for example the  
>> "Roller"
>> project jars:
>> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/roller/trunk/contrib/lib/
>>
>> For example the JSPWiki.jar is LGPL licensed, as clearly stated here:
>>
>> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/roller/trunk/README.txt
>>
>> Even if I think that removing all the LGPL jars is still one of  
>> the high
>> priority tasks, this will probably simplify things for the very first
>> steps in the Incubator...
>>
>> What do you think of this?
>
> I was going by what Leo Simmons said here:
>
> "No. It needs to happen prior to making any kind of release, and no  
> LGPL
> code or binaries should touch our SVN. But working on removing such a
> dependency while within the incubator is okay."
>
> Depends on what you guys want to do, but I think it would be easiest
> to resolve things in your own subversion so that there are no other
> issues ("hey, who do I ask to get this working!?"), but it depends on
> what sort of timeline you foresee, as well, which I can't really
> estimate.  This would make things simpler, also.

I think it might be better to resolve these issues in our own SVN  
repository where it's a little more flexible. I'm hoping we can get  
these resolved quickly, but I'm not sure how long... I think it  
depends on the approach we take and if we run into any issues with  
Geronimo or whatever...

-David



 
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[Ross Gardler-2]

Jacopo Cappellato wrote:
> Hi Martin,
>
> are you saying that, while in Incubator, we could also put LGPLed jars
> in the SVN repository, if we don't make an OFBiz release?
>
> This would be interesting for the very first days of incubation.

Hello OfBiz devs. Let me give a two line intro before addressing the above:

I am an ASF member who has been drawn to your project for two reasons:

1) I've been evaluating OfBiz for use in an internal project
2) Whilst doing my evaluation the OfBiz proposal landed in the ASF incubator

It looks like we will be using OfBiz at some point in the future, going
into the incubator is likely to be the deciding factor. I therefore
figured I should dive in early and see if I could help with the move to
the ASF in some small way.

Now, to the above question regarding LGPL code. There is always allot of
confusion about this kind of thing. The ASF have a mailing list
specifically for answering such queries ([hidden email]), but
you should try and answer them within your own communities/PMC first.

Now, I am no lawyer and I am a newcomer to the incubator, but I can pass
on my own (potentially flawed) understanding of the situation:

My answer is that *no* code that is under an incompatible license (to
ASL2) can be placed in any ASF repository (including incubator). This
applies to source code and to binaries.

The reason being that devs and users assume that anything that comes out
of the ASF repositories is compatible with the ASL2 and they will often
fail to check the license terms of all materials - trusting to the
oversight of the ASF.

Therefore, my take is that you can have dependencies on LGPL stuff. But
the LGPL code must be downloaded separately, not from the ASF repos.

I hope this helps.

Ross
 
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[J Aaron Farr]

On 2/8/06, David E. Jones <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I think it might be better to resolve these issues in our own SVN
> repository where it's a little more flexible. I'm hoping we can get
> these resolved quickly, but I'm not sure how long... I think it
> depends on the approach we take and if we run into any issues with
> Geronimo or whatever...

You can use whatever approach works best for you.  I've seen projects
do it different ways.  Don't think that you have to rush to get your
code into Apache's SVN repository or get rid of any of your existing
infrastructure right away.

My suggestion is to list out what infrastructure peices you have and
the dependencies between them and then start working through them one
at a time.  For example, we might want to start with mailing lists,
then JIRA, then SVN, then the site.  Or the other way around.

It's up to you as a community to decide the best order.  I'm just here
to make sure things go smoothly.

Now that I think of it, I don't think I've introduced myself to the
OFBiz dev community...  My name's J Aaron Farr and I'm a member of the
ASF and current Chair of Apache Excalibur.  I volunteered to help with
the Apache Incubation process for OFBiz.  Feel free to contact me with
any concerns!

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[David E. Jones]

Jeff Turner commented on the Infrastructure Jira issue for a OFBiz  
ASF Jira project and migrating the data from our Jira instance. He  
recommended that we do a "backup" and then he could restore it there  
in a separate instance of Jira that would be just for OFBiz. This  
would be temporary until we can find a way to migrate the issues.

Given that this appears to be the only option, and this isn't a very  
good option because we also have private client data on the Undersun  
Jira server (the one the OFBIZ Jira project is on now), I'm thinking  
we should table this for now and work on the mailing lists, SVN and  
other such resources.

Hopefully we can sooner or later get some help from Atlassian to do  
this migration. I don't know if they have tools for this already or  
if this would have to be written...

-David


On Feb 7, 2006, at 3:10 AM, David Welton wrote:

>> Is this something we should do before we move the code base over? For
>> the SVN move there seem to be 2 major things to be done:
>
> Yeah, I think doing JIRA and the mailing lists first is a good way of
> getting started with interacting with the ASF.  They should be easy to
> do pretty much atomically, and all you have to do on your side is
> change the links on the web site.
>
>> - remove LGPL dependencies (and Minerva since there's no way we'll
>> get a license grant for that)
>
> The dependencies themselves are ok as long as you're still in
> incubation, but LGPL code itself should not go into the ASF's SVN!
>
>> - get license grant documents from all we need to (which may be all
>> current and past contributors, so this could take some time)
>
> That is something else that should go to the legal list, I think,
> because I don't understand what the ramifications are of, say, not
> being able to find someone.
>
>> If I understand it right we can take care of the license grant issue
>> after going into incubation, but we shouldn't be putting questionable
>> code or libraries into the ASF repository. Does that sound right?
>
> Right, but do get started on the licensing stuff, that is in some ways
> the most important bit of this process as far as the ASF is concerned.
>  You don't get SVN accounts until you do the iCLA's, so that's the
> very first thing to do, and it's not that bad - just fill out the
> form, read it, sign it, and fax it.
>
>> For the Jira migration: it looks like there is an option to backup to
>> XML, but it backs up the entire database and not just one project
>> (and we have quite a few projects on that server)... So I'm not sure
>> how that will work.
>
> You might start attaching this information to the JIRA issue I opened
> - perhaps someone on that end has an idea of how things can be done
> smoothly.
>
> --
> David N. Welton
>  - http://www.dedasys.com/davidw/
>
> Linux, Open Source Consulting
>  - http://www.dedasys.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/dev

 
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[davidnwelton]

> Given that this appears to be the only option, and this isn't a very
> good option because we also have private client data on the Undersun
> Jira server (the one the OFBIZ Jira project is on now), I'm thinking
> we should table this for now and work on the mailing lists, SVN and
> other such resources.

Sure, that makes sense.  I have a request open for mailing list
creation.  I can open the SVN request too, but to do much of anything
useful with it, we'll have to wait until Jim processes you guys' iCLA
forms, so that you have accounts.

> Hopefully we can sooner or later get some help from Atlassian to do
> this migration. I don't know if they have tools for this already or
> if this would have to be written...

Talking to them sounds like a wise course of action at this point.

--
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 - http://www.dedasys.com/davidw/

Linux, Open Source Consulting
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[Jacopo Cappellato]

Will the svn commit logs list be automatically set up as soon as the SVN
server is set up?
Or will we need to ask for its creation?

I really could not live without it :-)

Jacopo

David Welton wrote:

>> Given that this appears to be the only option, and this isn't a very
>> good option because we also have private client data on the Undersun
>> Jira server (the one the OFBIZ Jira project is on now), I'm thinking
>> we should table this for now and work on the mailing lists, SVN and
>> other such resources.
>
> Sure, that makes sense.  I have a request open for mailing list
> creation.  I can open the SVN request too, but to do much of anything
> useful with it, we'll have to wait until Jim processes you guys' iCLA
> forms, so that you have accounts.
>
>> Hopefully we can sooner or later get some help from Atlassian to do
>> this migration. I don't know if they have tools for this already or
>> if this would have to be written...
>
> Talking to them sounds like a wise course of action at this point.
>
> --
> David N. Welton
>  - http://www.dedasys.com/davidw/
>
> Linux, Open Source Consulting
>  - http://www.dedasys.com/
>  
> _______________________________________________
> Dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/dev
>

 
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