Dev - Kabuki AJAX toolkit

[Chris Juettner]

David,
I did a little investigation in Ofbiz for the rules engine component that
is briefly mentioned in the documentation but didn't find where it's implemented.
Where I'm going with this is I was thinking of trying to combine the use
of Ajax functionality with a rules engine to allow for flexible and scalable
form validation where by validation rules could be changed/added without
recompiling, which doesn't introduce a lot of new javascript code, provides
a nicer user experience, and may fix well within the Ofbiz boundaries.
Kubuki isn't out there yet, but there are some open source projects that
are that try to use these same concepts.  The rules engine that interests
me is Drools.  Any thoughts?

Thanks

Chris Juettner
Integral Business Solutions

>
> Chris,
>
> Yes, Kabuki is the one I was referring to. I'm not very familiar with
 
> the project (haven't looked into it much).
>
> The interesting thing about these various AJAX tool kits is that they
 
> all seem to have some sort of different set of widgets or controls to
 
> do different things. There are a lot of these things that could  
> potentially be used in OFBiz, and in a way this is pretty tricky. We

> could end up with a few different AJAX tool kits in used in OFBiz,  
> and while I don't think that's a bad thing, I also hope there isn't  
> too much overlap or redundancy that makes things less efficient to  
> maintain.
>
> But anyway, there are quite a few places for the tools mentioned that
 
> they could be used in the form widget, tree widget, and menu widget.

> In addition to these lots of things could be used in more custom  
> templates (FTL files) for more "rich" and purpose-specific pages.
>
> Form field validation in the client would be nice. I'm not sure if  
> AJAX is required for this except in certain cases where there is too

> much data to validate against and sending this to the client wouldn't
 
> work so well. This will take some work to implement, but a lot of  
> validation information is available in service and entity definitions
 
> (field sizes, required or not, data type, etc), and more could be  
> added to the form widget or something (though this would mean  
> validation in more than one place because it also must happen in the

> service, ie for things that aren't constrained in the service  
> definition but rather in the implementation).
>
> For searching I've seen mention of some cool things in other tools  
> like dynamic result tables that can scroll around getting data as  
> needed from the server and such. That would be a nice addition to the
 

> current functionality based on the Find and ListFind form pattern  
> that currently is used for static results and pagination and such.
>
> -David
>
>
> On Mar 1, 2006, at 8:17 AM, cmjuettner at eaglejetsys.com wrote:
>
> Hello,
> I have reviewed a couple of previous threads relating to the use of  
> Ajax
> in OFBIZ and have not really found any real discussion as to the  
> feasibility
> of applying the Ajax concepts to OFBIZ.  I am working with an  
> application
> that was built using the OFBIZ architecture as the underlying  
> platform and
> have been tasked with analyzing how to possibly use Ajax to enhance  
> the
> user experience.
>
> I saw a post from David that stated it might be interesting to look  
> into
> the new Apache incubator Ajax project client library.  I think  
> David was
> talking about the Kubuki project which originated from Zimbra. From  
> their
> website "Zimbra is a founding member as well as a key technology  
> contributor
> to the newly inaugurated Open Ajax Initiative. The goal of Open  
> Ajax is
> to make the delivery of rich Ajax user interfaces substantially  
> easier than
> it has been."
>
> I am going to look into the Kabuki Ajax Toolkit for our use and  
> would like
> to get input from the community as to what features and  
> capabilities this
> toolkit provides that may make it a candidate for use by OFBIZ.  
> I've only
> been working with OFBIZ for five months now, so your insight and  
> experience
> will be appreciated.
>
> One feature I'm looking into providing in our application is form  
> field
> validation (maybe configurable like Struts Validator) and/or search  
> screens.
>
> Chris Juettner
> Integral Business Solutions

 
_______________________________________________
Dev mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/dev

[David E. Jones]

Chris,

I don't think a rules engine is what you think it is... For server  
side validation we already have a number of tools in place and being  
regularly used (in the service engine and extensive ones in the  
simple-methods). A rules engine can't help on the client side.

The OFBiz Rule Engine was abandoned a while back due to a near  
complete lack of interest, and the maturation of viable open source  
alternatives (like Drools).

In general rule engines are good for a number of things, but they are  
not the silver bullet that some make them out to be, and because the  
term "rules engine" can mean so many things (ie the definition has  
been _thoroughly_ polluted over the years), it is common to see  
mention of application to contexts where it doesn't really work so well.

It is great for constraint based automation or knowledge analysis and  
such where a simple "if" statement simply won't do because you need  
to have multiple layers of induction or deduction to bridge between  
the facts you have and the facts you need.

This is usually most useful in automating more complex things that  
humans have a hard time with, like automatically assigning gates in  
an airport or automatically routing trucks and packages. They usually  
sit on top of a system and help with automation and decision making,  
rather than being an integral part of the basic operation of the system.

-David


On Mar 2, 2006, at 6:45 AM, [hidden email] wrote:

> David,
> I did a little investigation in Ofbiz for the rules engine  
> component that
> is briefly mentioned in the documentation but didn't find where  
> it's implemented.
> Where I'm going with this is I was thinking of trying to combine  
> the use
> of Ajax functionality with a rules engine to allow for flexible and  
> scalable
> form validation where by validation rules could be changed/added  
> without
> recompiling, which doesn't introduce a lot of new javascript code,  
> provides
> a nicer user experience, and may fix well within the Ofbiz boundaries.
> Kubuki isn't out there yet, but there are some open source projects  
> that
> are that try to use these same concepts.  The rules engine that  
> interests
> me is Drools.  Any thoughts?
>
> Thanks
>
> Chris Juettner
> Integral Business Solutions
>
>>
>> Chris,
>>
>> Yes, Kabuki is the one I was referring to. I'm not very familiar with
>
>> the project (haven't looked into it much).
>>
>> The interesting thing about these various AJAX tool kits is that they
>
>> all seem to have some sort of different set of widgets or controls to
>
>> do different things. There are a lot of these things that could
>> potentially be used in OFBiz, and in a way this is pretty tricky. We
>
>> could end up with a few different AJAX tool kits in used in OFBiz,
>> and while I don't think that's a bad thing, I also hope there isn't
>> too much overlap or redundancy that makes things less efficient to
>> maintain.
>>
>> But anyway, there are quite a few places for the tools mentioned that
>
>> they could be used in the form widget, tree widget, and menu widget.
>
>> In addition to these lots of things could be used in more custom
>> templates (FTL files) for more "rich" and purpose-specific pages.
>>
>> Form field validation in the client would be nice. I'm not sure if
>> AJAX is required for this except in certain cases where there is too
>
>> much data to validate against and sending this to the client wouldn't
>
>> work so well. This will take some work to implement, but a lot of
>> validation information is available in service and entity definitions
>
>> (field sizes, required or not, data type, etc), and more could be
>> added to the form widget or something (though this would mean
>> validation in more than one place because it also must happen in the
>
>> service, ie for things that aren't constrained in the service
>> definition but rather in the implementation).
>>
>> For searching I've seen mention of some cool things in other tools
>> like dynamic result tables that can scroll around getting data as
>> needed from the server and such. That would be a nice addition to the
>
>> current functionality based on the Find and ListFind form pattern
>> that currently is used for static results and pagination and such.
>>
>> -David
>>
>>
>> On Mar 1, 2006, at 8:17 AM, cmjuettner at eaglejetsys.com wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>> I have reviewed a couple of previous threads relating to the use of
>> Ajax
>> in OFBIZ and have not really found any real discussion as to the
>> feasibility
>> of applying the Ajax concepts to OFBIZ.  I am working with an
>> application
>> that was built using the OFBIZ architecture as the underlying
>> platform and
>> have been tasked with analyzing how to possibly use Ajax to enhance
>> the
>> user experience.
>>
>> I saw a post from David that stated it might be interesting to look
>> into
>> the new Apache incubator Ajax project client library.  I think
>> David was
>> talking about the Kubuki project which originated from Zimbra. From
>> their
>> website "Zimbra is a founding member as well as a key technology
>> contributor
>> to the newly inaugurated Open Ajax Initiative. The goal of Open
>> Ajax is
>> to make the delivery of rich Ajax user interfaces substantially
>> easier than
>> it has been."
>>
>> I am going to look into the Kabuki Ajax Toolkit for our use and
>> would like
>> to get input from the community as to what features and
>> capabilities this
>> toolkit provides that may make it a candidate for use by OFBIZ.
>> I've only
>> been working with OFBIZ for five months now, so your insight and
>> experience
>> will be appreciated.
>>
>> One feature I'm looking into providing in our application is form
>> field
>> validation (maybe configurable like Struts Validator) and/or search
>> screens.
>>
>> Chris Juettner
>> Integral Business Solutions
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/dev

 
_______________________________________________
Dev mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/dev