EZBiz

[ScottA]

Hi David et al,

I know back in late October you had posted about the idea of EZBiz and at the time, there appeared to be a great deal of enthusiasm. I was just wondering if anything ever came of it or if you have just had bigger fish to fry in the mean time?

Thanks in advance.

[David E. Jones-2]

The OFBiz EZBiz effort never really got off the ground. I put my work so far on the wiki in hopes that others would get involved, but that hasn't happened yet. I suppose I might some day try to develop the whole thing myself, but that was never my intention.

Maybe the best analogy for it is the story of The Little Red Hen. In the case of EZBiz however, there is no Little Red Hen to make the bread, just a bunch of us other animals (including me) who want to eat the bread.

-David


On Mar 11, 2010, at 2:56 PM, ScottA wrote:

>
> Hi David et al,
>
> I know back in late October you had posted about the idea of EZBiz and at
> the time, there appeared to be a great deal of enthusiasm. I was just
> wondering if anything ever came of it or if you have just had bigger fish to
> fry in the mean time?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/EZBiz-tp1589812p1589812.html
> Sent from the OFBiz - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

[chris snow-2]

I would like to help, but would need some expert guidance for a task this
big.

Cheers,

Chris

On 12 Mar 2010 20:13, "David E Jones" <[hidden email]> wrote:


The OFBiz EZBiz effort never really got off the ground. I put my work so far
on the wiki in hopes that others would get involved, but that hasn't
happened yet. I suppose I might some day try to develop the whole thing
myself, but that was never my intention.

Maybe the best analogy for it is the story of The Little Red Hen. In the
case of EZBiz however, there is no Little Red Hen to make the bread, just a
bunch of us other animals (including me) who want to eat the bread.

-David



On Mar 11, 2010, at 2:56 PM, ScottA wrote:

>
> Hi David et al,
>
> I know back in late October ...

[ScottA]

David,

This idea is of great interest to me and would mean a lot for my business. I'm running QB enterprise and a home grown system at the moment but we have a lot of double entry, etc and I'm hoping that QB will eventually take over my entire business from accounting to ecommerce. That said, I lack the skills to be able to participate in the development effort and therefore rely on the community.

However, while I am no Rockefeller I could contribute with some $ and I'd be willing to bet that there would be others that could see the benefit from your ideas and also contribute. Is there any way that you and the other committers could try to monetize some of the development that the user community would like to see versus having to engage the services of a single OFBiz provider? Call it a bounty system or whatever but it’s the only way I can see where I could help move the project forward.

Just an idea for what it’s worth since I would hate to see this idea fall by the wayside.

Thanks.

[BJ Freeman]

quick books and quick books online have set number of records.
so exporting just the Transaction for GL and reports is all that can be
done.


========================

BJ Freeman
http://bjfreeman.elance.com
Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=93>
Specialtymarket.com <http://www.specialtymarket.com/>

Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist

Chat  Y! messenger: bjfr33man
Linkedin
<http://www.linkedin.com/profile?viewProfile=&key=1237480&locale=en_US&trk=tab_pro>


ScottA sent the following on 3/12/2010 12:42 PM:

> David,
>
> This idea is of great interest to me and would mean a lot for my business.
> I'm running QB enterprise and a home grown system at the moment but we have
> a lot of double entry, etc and I'm hoping that QB will eventually take over
> my entire business from accounting to ecommerce. That said, I lack the
> skills to be able to participate in the development effort and therefore
> rely on the community.
>
> However, while I am no Rockefeller I could contribute with some $ and I'd be
> willing to bet that there would be others that could see the benefit from
> your ideas and also contribute. Is there any way that you and the other
> committers could try to monetize some of the development that the user
> community would like to see versus having to engage the services of a single
> OFBiz provider? Call it a bounty system or whatever but it’s the only way I
> can see where I could help move the project forward.
>
> Just an idea for what it’s worth since I would hate to see this idea fall by
> the wayside.
>
> Thanks.
>

[ScottA]

BJ, the point I was trying to make is that David's idea would allow me to dump QB all together. No worries about import/export\double entry. OfBiz would be a single solution for me. Short term it costs more but l;ong term adds value to my business.

[David E. Jones-2]

Scott,

The bounty approach is a great idea. The usual problem with this kind of thing is trying to estimate how much the whole effort will cost, or if split up then the risk that those sponsoring it can't get enough resources together to get software they can use out the other end.

With a bounty approach the expectations are pretty clear. A small part of the overall effort is implemented in exchange for a specific and pre-determined amount of money.

I think that would work great for this, especially once the design is pretty complete and well-enough vetted that there is a good deal of confidence that independently developed parts will function well together as the whole starts to come together.

How to bootstrap this is another question... and also perhaps where to set expectations for the total cost and time of development in order to both attract bounties and also be realistic enough to get things done. I suppose bounties for the design effort would work, but design efforts tend to be more difficult to estimate (well, IMO anyway).

Whatever the case it's great to see more interest in this and I also hope something comes of it.

-David


On Mar 12, 2010, at 1:42 PM, ScottA wrote:

>
> David,
>
> This idea is of great interest to me and would mean a lot for my business.
> I'm running QB enterprise and a home grown system at the moment but we have
> a lot of double entry, etc and I'm hoping that QB will eventually take over
> my entire business from accounting to ecommerce. That said, I lack the
> skills to be able to participate in the development effort and therefore
> rely on the community.
>
> However, while I am no Rockefeller I could contribute with some $ and I'd be
> willing to bet that there would be others that could see the benefit from
> your ideas and also contribute. Is there any way that you and the other
> committers could try to monetize some of the development that the user
> community would like to see versus having to engage the services of a single
> OFBiz provider? Call it a bounty system or whatever but it’s the only way I
> can see where I could help move the project forward.
>
> Just an idea for what it’s worth since I would hate to see this idea fall by
> the wayside.
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/EZBiz-tp1589812p1591114.html
> Sent from the OFBiz - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

[ScottA]

I’m surprised that there are so few comments on this thread. When you first posted back in October, over a dozen people, and most were regular committers,  had a great deal of interest.

I read the list and I constantly hear comments about attracting more users. I know that a lot of the contributors feel that if they provide a solid framework, they can make a living (and rightly so) out of customization and extending OFBiz to meet their clients’ needs but this tends to be larger organizations. My point of view says that if you have an accounting package as proposed, you would attract many small businesses. They would have a fully functioning accounting app that meets most of their needs for the present but as they grow, they would have the whole OFBiz framework to grow into. I can only go off of my experience. QuickBooks was one of very few options at the time when I started my business. I knew nothing of open source and chose a relatively cheap option at the time. Then I built a website. There were only a few orders a month so processing orders using my online system and then entering in QB was not a problem for my one man outfit. Then came the time when I needed to add staff and then I needed a payroll feature. Of course this is a subscription but no big deal. Then there was my accountant. Me having to send a CD back and forth and then merging any changes the accountant made. She had no direct access that OFBiz would give. As the company grew, I grew out of QB but to my surprise, Intuit have made it very difficult to get any meaningful data out of QB. So instead of going to another package, I just upgraded yet again to QB Enterprise.

What’s my point in this little saga? Well, I guess what I am trying to say is that I think an EZBiz addition would attract more small business. Devs would not get rich overnight but I believe that in one or two years, some of those small businesses turn into medium sized business. They are already using OFBiz so why not just extend it? I think the devs would get more work than they currently have because there would be so many more businesses using the product and instead of huge one off customizations, you would have many, many small businesses extending the basic EZBiz and starting to use the entire OFBiz framework. Imagine the enhancements to the project along the way.

Anyway, that’s my couple of cents worth and so I ask, if there is interest in this how do we move it forward from here and not just see the idea waste away?

[Matt Warnock]

+1, I could also participate in a bounty program.

On Sat, 2010-03-13 at 02:49 -0700, David E Jones wrote:

> Scott,
>
> The bounty approach is a great idea. The usual problem with this kind of thing is trying to estimate how much the whole effort will cost, or if split up then the risk that those sponsoring it can't get enough resources together to get software they can use out the other end.
>
> With a bounty approach the expectations are pretty clear. A small part of the overall effort is implemented in exchange for a specific and pre-determined amount of money.
>
> I think that would work great for this, especially once the design is pretty complete and well-enough vetted that there is a good deal of confidence that independently developed parts will function well together as the whole starts to come together.
>
> How to bootstrap this is another question... and also perhaps where to set expectations for the total cost and time of development in order to both attract bounties and also be realistic enough to get things done. I suppose bounties for the design effort would work, but design efforts tend to be more difficult to estimate (well, IMO anyway).
>
> Whatever the case it's great to see more interest in this and I also hope something comes of it.
>
> -David
>
>
> On Mar 12, 2010, at 1:42 PM, ScottA wrote:
>
> >
> > David,
> >
> > This idea is of great interest to me and would mean a lot for my business.
> > I'm running QB enterprise and a home grown system at the moment but we have
> > a lot of double entry, etc and I'm hoping that QB will eventually take over
> > my entire business from accounting to ecommerce. That said, I lack the
> > skills to be able to participate in the development effort and therefore
> > rely on the community.
> >
> > However, while I am no Rockefeller I could contribute with some $ and I'd be
> > willing to bet that there would be others that could see the benefit from
> > your ideas and also contribute. Is there any way that you and the other
> > committers could try to monetize some of the development that the user
> > community would like to see versus having to engage the services of a single
> > OFBiz provider? Call it a bounty system or whatever but it’s the only way I
> > can see where I could help move the project forward.
> >
> > Just an idea for what it’s worth since I would hate to see this idea fall by
> > the wayside.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > --
> > View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/EZBiz-tp1589812p1591114.html
> > Sent from the OFBiz - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

--
Matt Warnock <[hidden email]>
RidgeCrest Herbals, Inc.

[ScottA]

David,

If it makes a difference, I would be willing to pledge $5000 right now to get this effort started. Are there any others out there that would pledge either in money or time to push this along? Perhaps there are others who have already implemented something like this who could contribute the code back to the community? If so, please post on this thread.

Like I said earlier, there was so much enthusiasm when David first suggested this. What happened?

[Chris Snow-3]

I may be able to put some time into this.

ScottA wrote:

> David,
>
> If it makes a difference, I would be willing to pledge $5000 right now to
> get this effort started. Are there any others out there that would pledge
> either in money or time to push this along? Perhaps there are others who
> have already implemented something like this who could contribute the code
> back to the community? If so, please post on this thread.
>
> Like I said earlier, there was so much enthusiasm when David first suggested
> this. What happened?
>
>  

[Matt Warnock]

I will match his $5000.  

On Fri, 2010-03-19 at 09:56 -0800, ScottA wrote:

> David,
>
> If it makes a difference, I would be willing to pledge $5000 right now to
> get this effort started. Are there any others out there that would pledge
> either in money or time to push this along? Perhaps there are others who
> have already implemented something like this who could contribute the code
> back to the community? If so, please post on this thread.
>
> Like I said earlier, there was so much enthusiasm when David first suggested
> this. What happened?
>

--
Matt Warnock <[hidden email]>
RidgeCrest Herbals, Inc.

[David E. Jones-2]

This probably isn't going to sound very good, but $10k is about what I was estimating for my own cost to do what would be needed for development to begin (ie finish the design, review it with whoever will offer feedback, do a round or two of updates to the design, then task out the implementation). Once I scoped out about what just that would involve I gave up, it's a little more than I can take on (I guess I'm not _that_ interested in it... ;) ).

Of course, this could be done differently and people could bid on both the design and development of various pages, basically proposing each page as part of the bid (since there is only kind of a master list, and it's not complete). That might result in a more fragmented overall application, but if there is consistent enough review it doesn't have to be that way.

BTW, about the enthusiasm... I think it was more for the results and the general idea than for the work to design and build the thing. Maybe also there was a misunderstanding that I would be doing everything and it would magically appear over time, and yes that would be exciting!

-David


On Mar 19, 2010, at 5:36 PM, Matt Warnock wrote:

> I will match his $5000.  
>
> On Fri, 2010-03-19 at 09:56 -0800, ScottA wrote:
>> David,
>>
>> If it makes a difference, I would be willing to pledge $5000 right now to
>> get this effort started. Are there any others out there that would pledge
>> either in money or time to push this along? Perhaps there are others who
>> have already implemented something like this who could contribute the code
>> back to the community? If so, please post on this thread.
>>
>> Like I said earlier, there was so much enthusiasm when David first suggested
>> this. What happened?

[BJ Freeman]

I back David on the costs.
just to give an idea, my rate is lower than Davids and $10K is about 3
man weeks.

in projects I have been involved in from concept to finish is about
$170-450K

=========================
BJ Freeman
http://bjfreeman.elance.com
Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=93>
Specialtymarket.com <http://www.specialtymarket.com/>

Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist

Chat  Y! messenger: bjfr33man
Linkedin
<http://www.linkedin.com/profile?viewProfile=&key=1237480&locale=en_US&trk=tab_pro>


David E Jones sent the following on 3/22/2010 2:31 PM:

> This probably isn't going to sound very good, but $10k is about what I was estimating for my own cost to do what would be needed for development to begin (ie finish the design, review it with whoever will offer feedback, do a round or two of updates to the design, then task out the implementation). Once I scoped out about what just that would involve I gave up, it's a little more than I can take on (I guess I'm not _that_ interested in it... ;) ).
>
> Of course, this could be done differently and people could bid on both the design and development of various pages, basically proposing each page as part of the bid (since there is only kind of a master list, and it's not complete). That might result in a more fragmented overall application, but if there is consistent enough review it doesn't have to be that way.
>
> BTW, about the enthusiasm... I think it was more for the results and the general idea than for the work to design and build the thing. Maybe also there was a misunderstanding that I would be doing everything and it would magically appear over time, and yes that would be exciting!
>
> -David
>
>
> On Mar 19, 2010, at 5:36 PM, Matt Warnock wrote:
>
>> I will match his $5000.  
>>
>> On Fri, 2010-03-19 at 09:56 -0800, ScottA wrote:
>>> David,
>>>
>>> If it makes a difference, I would be willing to pledge $5000 right now to
>>> get this effort started. Are there any others out there that would pledge
>>> either in money or time to push this along? Perhaps there are others who
>>> have already implemented something like this who could contribute the code
>>> back to the community? If so, please post on this thread.
>>>
>>> Like I said earlier, there was so much enthusiasm when David first suggested
>>> this. What happened?
>
>

[David E. Jones-2]

Actually, my time estimate for the design/planning/etc was for 4-6 weeks.

Of course, I was talking about my own cost... I wouldn't work on someone else's stuff for that rate. :)

-David


On Mar 22, 2010, at 3:40 PM, BJ Freeman wrote:

> I back David on the costs.
> just to give an idea, my rate is lower than Davids and $10K is about 3
> man weeks.
>
> in projects I have been involved in from concept to finish is about
> $170-450K
>
> =========================
> BJ Freeman
> http://bjfreeman.elance.com
> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=93>
> Specialtymarket.com <http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>
> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>
> Chat  Y! messenger: bjfr33man
> Linkedin
> <http://www.linkedin.com/profile?viewProfile=&key=1237480&locale=en_US&trk=tab_pro>
>
>
> David E Jones sent the following on 3/22/2010 2:31 PM:
>> This probably isn't going to sound very good, but $10k is about what I was estimating for my own cost to do what would be needed for development to begin (ie finish the design, review it with whoever will offer feedback, do a round or two of updates to the design, then task out the implementation). Once I scoped out about what just that would involve I gave up, it's a little more than I can take on (I guess I'm not _that_ interested in it... ;) ).
>>
>> Of course, this could be done differently and people could bid on both the design and development of various pages, basically proposing each page as part of the bid (since there is only kind of a master list, and it's not complete). That might result in a more fragmented overall application, but if there is consistent enough review it doesn't have to be that way.
>>
>> BTW, about the enthusiasm... I think it was more for the results and the general idea than for the work to design and build the thing. Maybe also there was a misunderstanding that I would be doing everything and it would magically appear over time, and yes that would be exciting!
>>
>> -David
>>
>>
>> On Mar 19, 2010, at 5:36 PM, Matt Warnock wrote:
>>
>>> I will match his $5000.  
>>>
>>> On Fri, 2010-03-19 at 09:56 -0800, ScottA wrote:
>>>> David,
>>>>
>>>> If it makes a difference, I would be willing to pledge $5000 right now to
>>>> get this effort started. Are there any others out there that would pledge
>>>> either in money or time to push this along? Perhaps there are others who
>>>> have already implemented something like this who could contribute the code
>>>> back to the community? If so, please post on this thread.
>>>>
>>>> Like I said earlier, there was so much enthusiasm when David first suggested
>>>> this. What happened?
>>
>>
>
>

[ScottA]

I was in no way implying that $5000 or $10000 was what the project or your time was worth and I didn’t believe that you were going to be person working on this nor did I have any illusion that this was just going to appear in short order. I was merely trying to add my support in the limited way that I could to something that would have benefited me and other smaller businesses. I respect what you guys do, the time you commit to the project and I hope that my comments\enthusiasm were not taken in the wrong way. Thanks.

[David E. Jones-2]

Scott,

Don't worry, it wasn't taken in the wrong way at all (at least by me), and is in fact very generous and does a lot to increase the chances that this will actually get developed.

My comments were mostly me thinking out loud about what this involves and what is needed to get it started, and I'm not really sure how that will work out. The two main options I mentioned there were:

1. design the app, review and refine, taskify for implementation, then get bounties for specific tasks to help move it along

2. don't do anything preliminary, just have people create tasks and bid on them and solicit bounties; the tasks would include designs or partial designs with an estimate of how long to finish the design and implement whatever is included in the task

In either case the people offering the bounty would be in the unfortunate position of having to deal with a dozen (at least) hungry community members fighting for each task to get the bounty on it, critiquing the work done (which might be a good thing as long as designers, developers, and bounty raisers all stick with it through the ugly parts).

Again what I really don't know is how to get this whole thing boot-strapped. I suppose anyone could pop up and start writing up tasks that have bids in them, and then those offering bounty can choose which tasks they want to sponsor. For a more organized approach it might require those offering bounty to take some initiative and direct whatever they think would lead to the best result.

-David


On Mar 22, 2010, at 3:58 PM, ScottA wrote:

>
> I was in no way implying that $5000 or $10000 was what the project or your
> time was worth and I didn’t believe that you were going to be person working
> on this nor did I have any illusion that this was just going to appear in
> short order. I was merely trying to add my support in the limited way that I
> could to something that would have benefited me and other smaller
> businesses. I respect what you guys do, the time you commit to the project
> and I hope that my comments\enthusiasm were not taken in the wrong way.
> Thanks.
> --
> View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/EZBiz-tp1589812p1678377.html
> Sent from the OFBiz - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.