Financial transaction - accounting transactions

[iwolf]

Hi,

I have a question regarding financial transaction, in detail the service "postFinAccountTransToGl".

When I create a "deposit" or a "withdraw" it creates the same accounting transactions except changing the type of accounting transaction.

Maybe I missunderstand the financial transactions. This is what I am trying to do:
A customer made a payment 100$. The bank subtracts a fee from my account 5$. I thought by making a transaction "withdraw" I could submit the fee to the appropriate glaccount and subtracting it from the financial account (2nd part is fine).
Goal:
Debit: 5$ Fees
Credit: 5$ Bank

Current situation:
Credit: 5$ Fees
Debit: 5$ Bank

Creating a deposit creates the same financial transactions.

When I create an adjustment with a negativ amount, the glaccounts are on the right side, but the value is negativ, which at the end leads to the same result.

I would be glad if someone could help me on this.

Best regards,
Ingo

[Sharan Foga]

Hi Ingo

So you've setup a financial account to mirror you bank account and when the customer payment comes in, it already has the fees taken out? Or does the whole customer amount come into the account as one figure and then the bank takes out their fee?

Also are you manually depositing (i.e creating deposits) for customer payments or are you letting OFBiz automatically do it when the customer pays?

Either way - I'll take a look and get back to you.

Thanks
Sharan

On 2018/03/21 10:33:30, Ingo Wolfmayr <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have a question regarding financial transaction, in detail the service "postFinAccountTransToGl".
>
> When I create a "deposit" or a "withdraw" it creates the same accounting transactions except changing the type of accounting transaction.
>
> Maybe I missunderstand the financial transactions. This is what I am trying to do:
> A customer made a payment 100$. The bank subtracts a fee from my account 5$. I thought by making a transaction "withdraw" I could submit the fee to the appropriate glaccount and subtracting it from the financial account (2nd part is fine).
> Goal:
> Debit: 5$ Fees
> Credit: 5$ Bank
>
> Current situation:
> Credit: 5$ Fees
> Debit: 5$ Bank
>
> Creating a deposit creates the same financial transactions.
>
> When I create an adjustment with a negativ amount, the glaccounts are on the right side, but the value is negativ, which at the end leads to the same result.
>
> I would be glad if someone could help me on this.
>
> Best regards,
> Ingo
>

[Paul Foxworthy]

Hi Ingo,

It's conventional to record a deposit to a bank account as a debit.

Have a look at
https://courses.lumenlearning.com/boundless-accounting/chapter/the-basics-of-accounting/
especially the "Perspective" section halfway down.

Debits and credits can be counter-intuitive. For an income or expense
account, they do what you'd expect: e.g. new income is a credit to an
income account. Assets and liabilities are different - an increase in an
asset is a *debit*. One think to think about this is that from the
perspective of the bank, your deposit is a liability - they owe you the
money and you may ask for it back in future. If they ever take out a bank
fee, the transaction would have a credit to the bank account (an asset) and
a debit to your bank fees account (an expense).

Cheers

Paul Foxworthy


On 21 March 2018 at 21:33, Ingo Wolfmayr <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have a question regarding financial transaction, in detail the service
> "postFinAccountTransToGl".
>
> When I create a "deposit" or a "withdraw" it creates the same accounting
> transactions except changing the type of accounting transaction.
>
> Maybe I missunderstand the financial transactions. This is what I am
> trying to do:
> A customer made a payment 100$. The bank subtracts a fee from my account
> 5$. I thought by making a transaction "withdraw" I could submit the fee to
> the appropriate glaccount and subtracting it from the financial account
> (2nd part is fine).
> Goal:
> Debit: 5$ Fees
> Credit: 5$ Bank
>
> Current situation:
> Credit: 5$ Fees
> Debit: 5$ Bank
>
> Creating a deposit creates the same financial transactions.
>
> When I create an adjustment with a negativ amount, the glaccounts are on
> the right side, but the value is negativ, which at the end leads to the
> same result.
>
> I would be glad if someone could help me on this.
>
> Best regards,
> Ingo
>

--
Coherent Software Australia Pty Ltd
PO Box 2773
Cheltenham Vic 3192
Australia

Phone: [phone]
Web: http://www.coherentsoftware.com.au/
Email: [hidden email]

[iwolf]

Hi Paul,

thanks for the information. I think I am doing exactely what you are saying:

Debit: 5$ Fees
Credit: 5$ Bank

Charges of bank (debit) / Bank (credit) --> decreases the bank liabilty - money the bank ows me.

Maybe I am going or thinking the wrong way: On the financial account I create a withdraw (Fin Account Trans Type Id) to decrease the bank liabilities on the financial account (bank). It should create the above accounting transaction entries.

Right now it is the other way round:
Bank (debit) / Charges of bank (credit)

Example:

Bank (debit) / Cash (credit)  --> Paying cash money to my bank account
Charges of bank (debit) / Bank (credit) --> the charge me for counting the money

Right now:
Bank (debit) / Cash (credit)  --> Paying cash money to my bank account
Bank (debit) / Charges of bank (credit) --> the charge me for counting the money - but increasing their liability?

Code from FinAccountGlPostServices:

<condition><if-compare field="finAccountTrans.finAccountTransTypeId" operator="equals" value="DEPOSIT"/></condition>
<set field="quickCreateAcctgTransAndEntries.creditGlAccountId" from-field="parameters.glAccountId"/>
<set field="quickCreateAcctgTransAndEntries.debitGlAccountId" from-field="glAccountId"/>
<set field="quickCreateAcctgTransAndEntries.acctgTransTypeId" value="RECEIPT"/>

<condition><if-compare field="finAccountTrans.finAccountTransTypeId" operator="equals" value="WITHDRAWAL"/></condition>
<set field="quickCreateAcctgTransAndEntries.debitGlAccountId" from-field="glAccountId"/>
<set field="quickCreateAcctgTransAndEntries.creditGlAccountId" from-field="parameters.glAccountId"/>
<set field="quickCreateAcctgTransAndEntries.acctgTransTypeId" value="PAYMENT_ACCTG_TRANS"/>

Best regards
Ingo

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Paul Foxworthy <[hidden email]>
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 22. März 2018 01:11
An: [hidden email]
Betreff: Re: Financial transaction - accounting transactions

Hi Ingo,

It's conventional to record a deposit to a bank account as a debit.

Have a look at
https://courses.lumenlearning.com/boundless-accounting/chapter/the-basics-of-accounting/
especially the "Perspective" section halfway down.

Debits and credits can be counter-intuitive. For an income or expense account, they do what you'd expect: e.g. new income is a credit to an income account. Assets and liabilities are different - an increase in an asset is a *debit*. One think to think about this is that from the perspective of the bank, your deposit is a liability - they owe you the money and you may ask for it back in future. If they ever take out a bank fee, the transaction would have a credit to the bank account (an asset) and a debit to your bank fees account (an expense).

Cheers

Paul Foxworthy


On 21 March 2018 at 21:33, Ingo Wolfmayr <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have a question regarding financial transaction, in detail the
> service "postFinAccountTransToGl".
>
> When I create a "deposit" or a "withdraw" it creates the same
> accounting transactions except changing the type of accounting transaction.
>
> Maybe I missunderstand the financial transactions. This is what I am
> trying to do:
> A customer made a payment 100$. The bank subtracts a fee from my
> account 5$. I thought by making a transaction "withdraw" I could
> submit the fee to the appropriate glaccount and subtracting it from
> the financial account (2nd part is fine).
> Goal:
> Debit: 5$ Fees
> Credit: 5$ Bank
>
> Current situation:
> Credit: 5$ Fees
> Debit: 5$ Bank
>
> Creating a deposit creates the same financial transactions.
>
> When I create an adjustment with a negativ amount, the glaccounts are
> on the right side, but the value is negativ, which at the end leads to
> the same result.
>
> I would be glad if someone could help me on this.
>
> Best regards,
> Ingo
>

--
Coherent Software Australia Pty Ltd
PO Box 2773
Cheltenham Vic 3192
Australia

Phone: [phone]
Web: http://www.coherentsoftware.com.au/
Email: [hidden email]

[iwolf]

Hi Sharan,

the fee has already been taken out and the whole processing is done manually.

Invoice is created via import.
Payment is created and assigned. --> Invoice paid.
Move fee from "bank glaccount" to "bank charges glaccount".

I do not want the invoice with an open amount in the system (write off), as the customer paid 100%. If there is another way I would be happy if you can share it.

Thanks a lot !

Best regards,
Ingo


-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Sharan Foga <[hidden email]>
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 21. März 2018 22:00
An: [hidden email]
Betreff: Re: Financial transaction - accounting transactions

Hi Ingo

So you've setup a financial account to mirror you bank account and when the customer payment comes in, it already has the fees taken out? Or does the whole customer amount come into the account as one figure and then the bank takes out their fee?

Also are you manually depositing (i.e creating deposits) for customer payments or are you letting OFBiz automatically do it when the customer pays?

Either way - I'll take a look and get back to you.

Thanks
Sharan

On 2018/03/21 10:33:30, Ingo Wolfmayr <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have a question regarding financial transaction, in detail the service "postFinAccountTransToGl".
>
> When I create a "deposit" or a "withdraw" it creates the same accounting transactions except changing the type of accounting transaction.
>
> Maybe I missunderstand the financial transactions. This is what I am trying to do:
> A customer made a payment 100$. The bank subtracts a fee from my account 5$. I thought by making a transaction "withdraw" I could submit the fee to the appropriate glaccount and subtracting it from the financial account (2nd part is fine).
> Goal:
> Debit: 5$ Fees
> Credit: 5$ Bank
>
> Current situation:
> Credit: 5$ Fees
> Debit: 5$ Bank
>
> Creating a deposit creates the same financial transactions.
>
> When I create an adjustment with a negativ amount, the glaccounts are on the right side, but the value is negativ, which at the end leads to the same result.
>
> I would be glad if someone could help me on this.
>
> Best regards,
> Ingo
>

[Sharan Foga]

Hi Ingo

I think you might be focussing on the money part too much rather than the accounting part. If you issue an invoice to a customer for 1000 Euros and they pay 1000 Euros based on that invoice, then it needs to be officially recorded that they paid all of it.

What you need to do is what I would call a sort of an invoice match followed by a payment breakdown (and at the moment you are missing the invoice match and are just doing the payment breakdown)

To fix it, you could look at matching the invoice with the customer paid amount (including the bank fees) before you process the bank fees transaction. So effectively you are re-creating the true customer payment, then doing the transaction to deduct the bank fees afterwards.

Thanks
Sharan


On 2018/03/22 09:54:07, Ingo Wolfmayr <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Sharan,
>
> the fee has already been taken out and the whole processing is done manually.
>
> Invoice is created via import.
> Payment is created and assigned. --> Invoice paid.
> Move fee from "bank glaccount" to "bank charges glaccount".
>
> I do not want the invoice with an open amount in the system (write off), as the customer paid 100%. If there is another way I would be happy if you can share it.
>
> Thanks a lot !
>
> Best regards,
> Ingo
>
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Sharan Foga <[hidden email]>
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 21. März 2018 22:00
> An: [hidden email]
> Betreff: Re: Financial transaction - accounting transactions
>
> Hi Ingo
>
> So you've setup a financial account to mirror you bank account and when the customer payment comes in, it already has the fees taken out? Or does the whole customer amount come into the account as one figure and then the bank takes out their fee?
>
> Also are you manually depositing (i.e creating deposits) for customer payments or are you letting OFBiz automatically do it when the customer pays?
>
> Either way - I'll take a look and get back to you.
>
> Thanks
> Sharan
>
> On 2018/03/21 10:33:30, Ingo Wolfmayr <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I have a question regarding financial transaction, in detail the service "postFinAccountTransToGl".
> >
> > When I create a "deposit" or a "withdraw" it creates the same accounting transactions except changing the type of accounting transaction.
> >
> > Maybe I missunderstand the financial transactions. This is what I am trying to do:
> > A customer made a payment 100$. The bank subtracts a fee from my account 5$. I thought by making a transaction "withdraw" I could submit the fee to the appropriate glaccount and subtracting it from the financial account (2nd part is fine).
> > Goal:
> > Debit: 5$ Fees
> > Credit: 5$ Bank
> >
> > Current situation:
> > Credit: 5$ Fees
> > Debit: 5$ Bank
> >
> > Creating a deposit creates the same financial transactions.
> >
> > When I create an adjustment with a negativ amount, the glaccounts are on the right side, but the value is negativ, which at the end leads to the same result.
> >
> > I would be glad if someone could help me on this.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Ingo
> >
>

[iwolf]

Hi Sharan,

this is what I am doing:

Step 1: Invoice 1000 €
Step 2: Payment 1000€ --> assigned to invoice. --> Invoice is finished ins status "paid". So far I am fine.
Step 3: Create transaction from financial account

But when I create the financial account transaction for the fee the accounting transactions are inverted - from my understanding.

I did a test on the demo trunk: Accounting --> FInancial Account --> Transaction --> Create New

1) Withdraw 10$:
DEBIT 111100 General Checking Account (10$) --> CREDIT 649000 Other Consulting Fees (10$) (the glaccount I have choosen)
2) Debit 10$:
DEBIT 111100 General Checking Account (10$) --> CREDIT 649000 Other Consulting Fees (10$)
3) Adjustment +10$:
DEBIT 111100 General Checking Account (10$) --> CREDIT 649000 Other Consulting Fees (10$)
4) Adjustment -10$:
CREDIT 111100 General Checking Account (-10$) -->DEBIT 649000 Other Consulting Fees (-10$)

From my understanding all financial transactions have the same accounting transaction result. This I do not understand. If I reduce the amount on my financial account (bank) doesn't this mean the available money on my bank account is reduced?

Thanks,
Ingo

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Sharan Foga <[hidden email]>
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 22. März 2018 13:14
An: [hidden email]
Betreff: Re: AW: Financial transaction - accounting transactions

Hi Ingo

I think you might be focussing on the money part too much rather than the accounting part. If you issue an invoice to a customer for 1000 Euros and they pay 1000 Euros based on that invoice, then it needs to be officially recorded that they paid all of it.

What you need to do is what I would call a sort of an invoice match followed by a payment breakdown (and at the moment you are missing the invoice match and are just doing the payment breakdown)

To fix it, you could look at matching the invoice with the customer paid amount (including the bank fees) before you process the bank fees transaction. So effectively you are re-creating the true customer payment, then doing the transaction to deduct the bank fees afterwards.

Thanks
Sharan


On 2018/03/22 09:54:07, Ingo Wolfmayr <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Sharan,
>
> the fee has already been taken out and the whole processing is done manually.
>
> Invoice is created via import.
> Payment is created and assigned. --> Invoice paid.
> Move fee from "bank glaccount" to "bank charges glaccount".
>
> I do not want the invoice with an open amount in the system (write off), as the customer paid 100%. If there is another way I would be happy if you can share it.
>
> Thanks a lot !
>
> Best regards,
> Ingo
>
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Sharan Foga <[hidden email]>
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 21. März 2018 22:00
> An: [hidden email]
> Betreff: Re: Financial transaction - accounting transactions
>
> Hi Ingo
>
> So you've setup a financial account to mirror you bank account and when the customer payment comes in, it already has the fees taken out? Or does the whole customer amount come into the account as one figure and then the bank takes out their fee?
>
> Also are you manually depositing (i.e creating deposits) for customer payments or are you letting OFBiz automatically do it when the customer pays?
>
> Either way - I'll take a look and get back to you.
>
> Thanks
> Sharan
>
> On 2018/03/21 10:33:30, Ingo Wolfmayr <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I have a question regarding financial transaction, in detail the service "postFinAccountTransToGl".
> >
> > When I create a "deposit" or a "withdraw" it creates the same accounting transactions except changing the type of accounting transaction.
> >
> > Maybe I missunderstand the financial transactions. This is what I am trying to do:
> > A customer made a payment 100$. The bank subtracts a fee from my account 5$. I thought by making a transaction "withdraw" I could submit the fee to the appropriate glaccount and subtracting it from the financial account (2nd part is fine).
> > Goal:
> > Debit: 5$ Fees
> > Credit: 5$ Bank
> >
> > Current situation:
> > Credit: 5$ Fees
> > Debit: 5$ Bank
> >
> > Creating a deposit creates the same financial transactions.
> >
> > When I create an adjustment with a negativ amount, the glaccounts are on the right side, but the value is negativ, which at the end leads to the same result.
> >
> > I would be glad if someone could help me on this.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Ingo
> >
>

[Pierre Smits]

HI Ingo,

Given you're examples:


   1. Withdrawal  - this should lead to a credit posting on the gl account
   for the financial account (please check the sub-ledger) and a credit
   posting for the opposing gl account
   2. Debit - this should lead to the debit posting on gl account for the
   financial account
   3. Adjustment (positive) - this should lead to the debit posting on the
   gl account for the financial account
   4. Adjustment (negative) - this should lead to the credit posting on the
   gl account for the financial account.

So 3 out of 4 are correct. It is even good to see that #3 and #4 are
processed correctly.

I would say  - at the moment -  #1 not working properly warrants a ticket.

Best regards,

Pierre Smits

ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>
OFBiz based solutions & services

OEM - The OFBiz Extensions Marketplace1
http://oem.ofbizci.net/oci-2/
1 not affiliated to (and not endorsed by) the OFBiz project

On Thu, Mar 22, 2018 at 5:11 PM, Ingo Wolfmayr <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hi Sharan,
>
> this is what I am doing:
>
> Step 1: Invoice 1000 €
> Step 2: Payment 1000€ --> assigned to invoice. --> Invoice is finished ins
> status "paid". So far I am fine.
> Step 3: Create transaction from financial account
>
> But when I create the financial account transaction for the fee the
> accounting transactions are inverted - from my understanding.
>
> I did a test on the demo trunk: Accounting --> FInancial Account -->
> Transaction --> Create New
>
> 1) Withdraw 10$:
> DEBIT 111100 General Checking Account (10$) --> CREDIT 649000 Other
> Consulting Fees (10$) (the glaccount I have choosen)
> 2) Debit 10$:
> DEBIT 111100 General Checking Account (10$) --> CREDIT 649000 Other
> Consulting Fees (10$)
> 3) Adjustment +10$:
> DEBIT 111100 General Checking Account (10$) --> CREDIT 649000 Other
> Consulting Fees (10$)
> 4) Adjustment -10$:
> CREDIT 111100 General Checking Account (-10$) -->DEBIT 649000 Other
> Consulting Fees (-10$)
>
> From my understanding all financial transactions have the same accounting
> transaction result. This I do not understand. If I reduce the amount on my
> financial account (bank) doesn't this mean the available money on my bank
> account is reduced?
>
> Thanks,
> Ingo
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Sharan Foga <[hidden email]>
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 22. März 2018 13:14
> An: [hidden email]
> Betreff: Re: AW: Financial transaction - accounting transactions
>
> Hi Ingo
>
> I think you might be focussing on the money part too much rather than the
> accounting part. If you issue an invoice to a customer for 1000 Euros and
> they pay 1000 Euros based on that invoice, then it needs to be officially
> recorded that they paid all of it.
>
> What you need to do is what I would call a sort of an invoice match
> followed by a payment breakdown (and at the moment you are missing the
> invoice match and are just doing the payment breakdown)
>
> To fix it, you could look at matching the invoice with the customer paid
> amount (including the bank fees) before you process the bank fees
> transaction. So effectively you are re-creating the true customer payment,
> then doing the transaction to deduct the bank fees afterwards.
>
> Thanks
> Sharan
>
>
> On 2018/03/22 09:54:07, Ingo Wolfmayr <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Hi Sharan,
> >
> > the fee has already been taken out and the whole processing is done
> manually.
> >
> > Invoice is created via import.
> > Payment is created and assigned. --> Invoice paid.
> > Move fee from "bank glaccount" to "bank charges glaccount".
> >
> > I do not want the invoice with an open amount in the system (write off),
> as the customer paid 100%. If there is another way I would be happy if you
> can share it.
> >
> > Thanks a lot !
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Ingo
> >
> >
> > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > Von: Sharan Foga <[hidden email]>
> > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 21. März 2018 22:00
> > An: [hidden email]
> > Betreff: Re: Financial transaction - accounting transactions
> >
> > Hi Ingo
> >
> > So you've setup a financial account to mirror you bank account and when
> the customer payment comes in, it already has the fees taken out? Or does
> the whole customer amount come into the account as one figure and then the
> bank takes out their fee?
> >
> > Also are you manually depositing (i.e creating deposits) for customer
> payments or are you letting OFBiz automatically do it when the customer
> pays?
> >
> > Either way - I'll take a look and get back to you.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Sharan
> >
> > On 2018/03/21 10:33:30, Ingo Wolfmayr <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I have a question regarding financial transaction, in detail the
> service "postFinAccountTransToGl".
> > >
> > > When I create a "deposit" or a "withdraw" it creates the same
> accounting transactions except changing the type of accounting transaction.
> > >
> > > Maybe I missunderstand the financial transactions. This is what I am
> trying to do:
> > > A customer made a payment 100$. The bank subtracts a fee from my
> account 5$. I thought by making a transaction "withdraw" I could submit the
> fee to the appropriate glaccount and subtracting it from the financial
> account (2nd part is fine).
> > > Goal:
> > > Debit: 5$ Fees
> > > Credit: 5$ Bank
> > >
> > > Current situation:
> > > Credit: 5$ Fees
> > > Debit: 5$ Bank
> > >
> > > Creating a deposit creates the same financial transactions.
> > >
> > > When I create an adjustment with a negativ amount, the glaccounts are
> on the right side, but the value is negativ, which at the end leads to the
> same result.
> > >
> > > I would be glad if someone could help me on this.
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > > Ingo
> > >
> >
>

[iwolf]

Hi Pierre,

thanks for you input.

About 4: this should lead to a positiv credit posting on the  gl account for the financial account. So -10$ becomes 10$.

Best regards,
Ingo

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Pierre Smits <[hidden email]>
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 22. März 2018 18:56
An: [hidden email]
Betreff: Re: AW: Financial transaction - accounting transactions

HI Ingo,

Given you're examples:


   1. Withdrawal  - this should lead to a credit posting on the gl account
   for the financial account (please check the sub-ledger) and a credit
   posting for the opposing gl account
   2. Debit - this should lead to the debit posting on gl account for the
   financial account
   3. Adjustment (positive) - this should lead to the debit posting on the
   gl account for the financial account
   4. Adjustment (negative) - this should lead to the credit posting on the
   gl account for the financial account.

So 3 out of 4 are correct. It is even good to see that #3 and #4 are processed correctly.

I would say  - at the moment -  #1 not working properly warrants a ticket.

Best regards,

Pierre Smits

ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>
OFBiz based solutions & services

OEM - The OFBiz Extensions Marketplace1
http://oem.ofbizci.net/oci-2/
1 not affiliated to (and not endorsed by) the OFBiz project

On Thu, Mar 22, 2018 at 5:11 PM, Ingo Wolfmayr <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hi Sharan,
>
> this is what I am doing:
>
> Step 1: Invoice 1000 €
> Step 2: Payment 1000€ --> assigned to invoice. --> Invoice is finished
> ins status "paid". So far I am fine.
> Step 3: Create transaction from financial account
>
> But when I create the financial account transaction for the fee the
> accounting transactions are inverted - from my understanding.
>
> I did a test on the demo trunk: Accounting --> FInancial Account -->
> Transaction --> Create New
>
> 1) Withdraw 10$:
> DEBIT 111100 General Checking Account (10$) --> CREDIT 649000 Other
> Consulting Fees (10$) (the glaccount I have choosen)
> 2) Debit 10$:
> DEBIT 111100 General Checking Account (10$) --> CREDIT 649000 Other
> Consulting Fees (10$)
> 3) Adjustment +10$:
> DEBIT 111100 General Checking Account (10$) --> CREDIT 649000 Other
> Consulting Fees (10$)
> 4) Adjustment -10$:
> CREDIT 111100 General Checking Account (-10$) -->DEBIT 649000 Other
> Consulting Fees (-10$)
>
> From my understanding all financial transactions have the same
> accounting transaction result. This I do not understand. If I reduce
> the amount on my financial account (bank) doesn't this mean the
> available money on my bank account is reduced?
>
> Thanks,
> Ingo
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Sharan Foga <[hidden email]>
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 22. März 2018 13:14
> An: [hidden email]
> Betreff: Re: AW: Financial transaction - accounting transactions
>
> Hi Ingo
>
> I think you might be focussing on the money part too much rather than
> the accounting part. If you issue an invoice to a customer for 1000
> Euros and they pay 1000 Euros based on that invoice, then it needs to
> be officially recorded that they paid all of it.
>
> What you need to do is what I would call a sort of an invoice match
> followed by a payment breakdown (and at the moment you are missing the
> invoice match and are just doing the payment breakdown)
>
> To fix it, you could look at matching the invoice with the customer
> paid amount (including the bank fees) before you process the bank fees
> transaction. So effectively you are re-creating the true customer
> payment, then doing the transaction to deduct the bank fees afterwards.
>
> Thanks
> Sharan
>
>
> On 2018/03/22 09:54:07, Ingo Wolfmayr <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Hi Sharan,
> >
> > the fee has already been taken out and the whole processing is done
> manually.
> >
> > Invoice is created via import.
> > Payment is created and assigned. --> Invoice paid.
> > Move fee from "bank glaccount" to "bank charges glaccount".
> >
> > I do not want the invoice with an open amount in the system (write
> > off),
> as the customer paid 100%. If there is another way I would be happy if
> you can share it.
> >
> > Thanks a lot !
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Ingo
> >
> >
> > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > Von: Sharan Foga <[hidden email]>
> > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 21. März 2018 22:00
> > An: [hidden email]
> > Betreff: Re: Financial transaction - accounting transactions
> >
> > Hi Ingo
> >
> > So you've setup a financial account to mirror you bank account and
> > when
> the customer payment comes in, it already has the fees taken out? Or
> does the whole customer amount come into the account as one figure and
> then the bank takes out their fee?
> >
> > Also are you manually depositing (i.e creating deposits) for
> > customer
> payments or are you letting OFBiz automatically do it when the
> customer pays?
> >
> > Either way - I'll take a look and get back to you.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Sharan
> >
> > On 2018/03/21 10:33:30, Ingo Wolfmayr <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I have a question regarding financial transaction, in detail the
> service "postFinAccountTransToGl".
> > >
> > > When I create a "deposit" or a "withdraw" it creates the same
> accounting transactions except changing the type of accounting transaction.
> > >
> > > Maybe I missunderstand the financial transactions. This is what I
> > > am
> trying to do:
> > > A customer made a payment 100$. The bank subtracts a fee from my
> account 5$. I thought by making a transaction "withdraw" I could
> submit the fee to the appropriate glaccount and subtracting it from
> the financial account (2nd part is fine).
> > > Goal:
> > > Debit: 5$ Fees
> > > Credit: 5$ Bank
> > >
> > > Current situation:
> > > Credit: 5$ Fees
> > > Debit: 5$ Bank
> > >
> > > Creating a deposit creates the same financial transactions.
> > >
> > > When I create an adjustment with a negativ amount, the glaccounts
> > > are
> on the right side, but the value is negativ, which at the end leads to
> the same result.
> > >
> > > I would be glad if someone could help me on this.
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > > Ingo
> > >
> >
>

[Pierre Smits]

Hi Ingo,

You're correct, and I apologise for not being clear enough and creating the
perception that the amount under example #4 should go into the gl account
as a negative (amount).

In general, double entry accounting is about posting positive amounts in gl
accounts, and any correction of an existing booking is done by reversing
the used gl accounts while using positive amounts and not negative amounts.
See following:


   - original booking

Db gl-account 100, amount 10 (positive amount, explicitly not using + or -)

Cr gl-account 200, amount 10


   - correction booking

Db gl-account 200, amount 5

Cr gl-account 100, amount 5

In the western accounting/financial control domain it is widely understood
that each booking always start with the debit postings and end with the
credit postings, as this stems from history (writing from left to right: in
the balance assets left and liabilities right, in the PL cost on the left
and income right).

But there are (accepted) viewpoints that any complete reversal of an
existing booking is done the same way as the original booking but with
original amounts transposed to negatives. In many automated accounting
system you see this happening with EoM temporary bookings (e.g. WIP
bookings related to Manufacturing, Projects, etc.).

Best regards,

Pierre Smits

ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>
OFBiz based solutions & services

OEM - The OFBiz Extensions Marketplace1
http://oem.ofbizci.net/oci-2/
1 not affiliated to (and not endorsed by) the OFBiz project

On Thu, Mar 22, 2018 at 9:22 PM, Ingo Wolfmayr <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hi Pierre,
>
> thanks for you input.
>
> About 4: this should lead to a positiv credit posting on the  gl account
> for the financial account. So -10$ becomes 10$.
>
> Best regards,
> Ingo
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Pierre Smits <[hidden email]>
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 22. März 2018 18:56
> An: [hidden email]
> Betreff: Re: AW: Financial transaction - accounting transactions
>
> HI Ingo,
>
> Given you're examples:
>
>
>    1. Withdrawal  - this should lead to a credit posting on the gl account
>    for the financial account (please check the sub-ledger) and a credit
>    posting for the opposing gl account
>    2. Debit - this should lead to the debit posting on gl account for the
>    financial account
>    3. Adjustment (positive) - this should lead to the debit posting on the
>    gl account for the financial account
>    4. Adjustment (negative) - this should lead to the credit posting on the
>    gl account for the financial account.
>
> So 3 out of 4 are correct. It is even good to see that #3 and #4 are
> processed correctly.
>
> I would say  - at the moment -  #1 not working properly warrants a ticket.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Pierre Smits
>
> ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>
> OFBiz based solutions & services
>
> OEM - The OFBiz Extensions Marketplace1
> http://oem.ofbizci.net/oci-2/
> 1 not affiliated to (and not endorsed by) the OFBiz project
>
> On Thu, Mar 22, 2018 at 5:11 PM, Ingo Wolfmayr <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Sharan,
> >
> > this is what I am doing:
> >
> > Step 1: Invoice 1000 €
> > Step 2: Payment 1000€ --> assigned to invoice. --> Invoice is finished
> > ins status "paid". So far I am fine.
> > Step 3: Create transaction from financial account
> >
> > But when I create the financial account transaction for the fee the
> > accounting transactions are inverted - from my understanding.
> >
> > I did a test on the demo trunk: Accounting --> FInancial Account -->
> > Transaction --> Create New
> >
> > 1) Withdraw 10$:
> > DEBIT 111100 General Checking Account (10$) --> CREDIT 649000 Other
> > Consulting Fees (10$) (the glaccount I have choosen)
> > 2) Debit 10$:
> > DEBIT 111100 General Checking Account (10$) --> CREDIT 649000 Other
> > Consulting Fees (10$)
> > 3) Adjustment +10$:
> > DEBIT 111100 General Checking Account (10$) --> CREDIT 649000 Other
> > Consulting Fees (10$)
> > 4) Adjustment -10$:
> > CREDIT 111100 General Checking Account (-10$) -->DEBIT 649000 Other
> > Consulting Fees (-10$)
> >
> > From my understanding all financial transactions have the same
> > accounting transaction result. This I do not understand. If I reduce
> > the amount on my financial account (bank) doesn't this mean the
> > available money on my bank account is reduced?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Ingo
> >
> > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > Von: Sharan Foga <[hidden email]>
> > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 22. März 2018 13:14
> > An: [hidden email]
> > Betreff: Re: AW: Financial transaction - accounting transactions
> >
> > Hi Ingo
> >
> > I think you might be focussing on the money part too much rather than
> > the accounting part. If you issue an invoice to a customer for 1000
> > Euros and they pay 1000 Euros based on that invoice, then it needs to
> > be officially recorded that they paid all of it.
> >
> > What you need to do is what I would call a sort of an invoice match
> > followed by a payment breakdown (and at the moment you are missing the
> > invoice match and are just doing the payment breakdown)
> >
> > To fix it, you could look at matching the invoice with the customer
> > paid amount (including the bank fees) before you process the bank fees
> > transaction. So effectively you are re-creating the true customer
> > payment, then doing the transaction to deduct the bank fees afterwards.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Sharan
> >
> >
> > On 2018/03/22 09:54:07, Ingo Wolfmayr <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > Hi Sharan,
> > >
> > > the fee has already been taken out and the whole processing is done
> > manually.
> > >
> > > Invoice is created via import.
> > > Payment is created and assigned. --> Invoice paid.
> > > Move fee from "bank glaccount" to "bank charges glaccount".
> > >
> > > I do not want the invoice with an open amount in the system (write
> > > off),
> > as the customer paid 100%. If there is another way I would be happy if
> > you can share it.
> > >
> > > Thanks a lot !
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > > Ingo
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > > Von: Sharan Foga <[hidden email]>
> > > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 21. März 2018 22:00
> > > An: [hidden email]
> > > Betreff: Re: Financial transaction - accounting transactions
> > >
> > > Hi Ingo
> > >
> > > So you've setup a financial account to mirror you bank account and
> > > when
> > the customer payment comes in, it already has the fees taken out? Or
> > does the whole customer amount come into the account as one figure and
> > then the bank takes out their fee?
> > >
> > > Also are you manually depositing (i.e creating deposits) for
> > > customer
> > payments or are you letting OFBiz automatically do it when the
> > customer pays?
> > >
> > > Either way - I'll take a look and get back to you.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > Sharan
> > >
> > > On 2018/03/21 10:33:30, Ingo Wolfmayr <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > I have a question regarding financial transaction, in detail the
> > service "postFinAccountTransToGl".
> > > >
> > > > When I create a "deposit" or a "withdraw" it creates the same
> > accounting transactions except changing the type of accounting
> transaction.
> > > >
> > > > Maybe I missunderstand the financial transactions. This is what I
> > > > am
> > trying to do:
> > > > A customer made a payment 100$. The bank subtracts a fee from my
> > account 5$. I thought by making a transaction "withdraw" I could
> > submit the fee to the appropriate glaccount and subtracting it from
> > the financial account (2nd part is fine).
> > > > Goal:
> > > > Debit: 5$ Fees
> > > > Credit: 5$ Bank
> > > >
> > > > Current situation:
> > > > Credit: 5$ Fees
> > > > Debit: 5$ Bank
> > > >
> > > > Creating a deposit creates the same financial transactions.
> > > >
> > > > When I create an adjustment with a negativ amount, the glaccounts
> > > > are
> > on the right side, but the value is negativ, which at the end leads to
> > the same result.
> > > >
> > > > I would be glad if someone could help me on this.
> > > >
> > > > Best regards,
> > > > Ingo
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

[iwolf]

Hi Pierre,

thanks for your input. I created a jira with a patch (OFBIZ-10308).

Best regards,
Ingo

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Pierre Smits <[hidden email]>
Gesendet: Freitag, 23. März 2018 08:32
An: [hidden email]
Betreff: Re: AW: Financial transaction - accounting transactions

Hi Ingo,

You're correct, and I apologise for not being clear enough and creating the perception that the amount under example #4 should go into the gl account as a negative (amount).

In general, double entry accounting is about posting positive amounts in gl accounts, and any correction of an existing booking is done by reversing the used gl accounts while using positive amounts and not negative amounts.
See following:


   - original booking

Db gl-account 100, amount 10 (positive amount, explicitly not using + or -)

Cr gl-account 200, amount 10


   - correction booking

Db gl-account 200, amount 5

Cr gl-account 100, amount 5

In the western accounting/financial control domain it is widely understood that each booking always start with the debit postings and end with the credit postings, as this stems from history (writing from left to right: in the balance assets left and liabilities right, in the PL cost on the left and income right).

But there are (accepted) viewpoints that any complete reversal of an existing booking is done the same way as the original booking but with original amounts transposed to negatives. In many automated accounting system you see this happening with EoM temporary bookings (e.g. WIP bookings related to Manufacturing, Projects, etc.).

Best regards,

Pierre Smits

ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>
OFBiz based solutions & services

OEM - The OFBiz Extensions Marketplace1
http://oem.ofbizci.net/oci-2/
1 not affiliated to (and not endorsed by) the OFBiz project

On Thu, Mar 22, 2018 at 9:22 PM, Ingo Wolfmayr <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hi Pierre,
>
> thanks for you input.
>
> About 4: this should lead to a positiv credit posting on the  gl
> account for the financial account. So -10$ becomes 10$.
>
> Best regards,
> Ingo
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Pierre Smits <[hidden email]>
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 22. März 2018 18:56
> An: [hidden email]
> Betreff: Re: AW: Financial transaction - accounting transactions
>
> HI Ingo,
>
> Given you're examples:
>
>
>    1. Withdrawal  - this should lead to a credit posting on the gl account
>    for the financial account (please check the sub-ledger) and a credit
>    posting for the opposing gl account
>    2. Debit - this should lead to the debit posting on gl account for the
>    financial account
>    3. Adjustment (positive) - this should lead to the debit posting on the
>    gl account for the financial account
>    4. Adjustment (negative) - this should lead to the credit posting on the
>    gl account for the financial account.
>
> So 3 out of 4 are correct. It is even good to see that #3 and #4 are
> processed correctly.
>
> I would say  - at the moment -  #1 not working properly warrants a ticket.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Pierre Smits
>
> ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>
> OFBiz based solutions & services
>
> OEM - The OFBiz Extensions Marketplace1 http://oem.ofbizci.net/oci-2/
> 1 not affiliated to (and not endorsed by) the OFBiz project
>
> On Thu, Mar 22, 2018 at 5:11 PM, Ingo Wolfmayr
> <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Sharan,
> >
> > this is what I am doing:
> >
> > Step 1: Invoice 1000 €
> > Step 2: Payment 1000€ --> assigned to invoice. --> Invoice is
> > finished ins status "paid". So far I am fine.
> > Step 3: Create transaction from financial account
> >
> > But when I create the financial account transaction for the fee the
> > accounting transactions are inverted - from my understanding.
> >
> > I did a test on the demo trunk: Accounting --> FInancial Account -->
> > Transaction --> Create New
> >
> > 1) Withdraw 10$:
> > DEBIT 111100 General Checking Account (10$) --> CREDIT 649000 Other
> > Consulting Fees (10$) (the glaccount I have choosen)
> > 2) Debit 10$:
> > DEBIT 111100 General Checking Account (10$) --> CREDIT 649000 Other
> > Consulting Fees (10$)
> > 3) Adjustment +10$:
> > DEBIT 111100 General Checking Account (10$) --> CREDIT 649000 Other
> > Consulting Fees (10$)
> > 4) Adjustment -10$:
> > CREDIT 111100 General Checking Account (-10$) -->DEBIT 649000 Other
> > Consulting Fees (-10$)
> >
> > From my understanding all financial transactions have the same
> > accounting transaction result. This I do not understand. If I reduce
> > the amount on my financial account (bank) doesn't this mean the
> > available money on my bank account is reduced?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Ingo
> >
> > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > Von: Sharan Foga <[hidden email]>
> > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 22. März 2018 13:14
> > An: [hidden email]
> > Betreff: Re: AW: Financial transaction - accounting transactions
> >
> > Hi Ingo
> >
> > I think you might be focussing on the money part too much rather
> > than the accounting part. If you issue an invoice to a customer for
> > 1000 Euros and they pay 1000 Euros based on that invoice, then it
> > needs to be officially recorded that they paid all of it.
> >
> > What you need to do is what I would call a sort of an invoice match
> > followed by a payment breakdown (and at the moment you are missing
> > the invoice match and are just doing the payment breakdown)
> >
> > To fix it, you could look at matching the invoice with the customer
> > paid amount (including the bank fees) before you process the bank
> > fees transaction. So effectively you are re-creating the true
> > customer payment, then doing the transaction to deduct the bank fees afterwards.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Sharan
> >
> >
> > On 2018/03/22 09:54:07, Ingo Wolfmayr <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > Hi Sharan,
> > >
> > > the fee has already been taken out and the whole processing is
> > > done
> > manually.
> > >
> > > Invoice is created via import.
> > > Payment is created and assigned. --> Invoice paid.
> > > Move fee from "bank glaccount" to "bank charges glaccount".
> > >
> > > I do not want the invoice with an open amount in the system (write
> > > off),
> > as the customer paid 100%. If there is another way I would be happy
> > if you can share it.
> > >
> > > Thanks a lot !
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > > Ingo
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > > Von: Sharan Foga <[hidden email]>
> > > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 21. März 2018 22:00
> > > An: [hidden email]
> > > Betreff: Re: Financial transaction - accounting transactions
> > >
> > > Hi Ingo
> > >
> > > So you've setup a financial account to mirror you bank account and
> > > when
> > the customer payment comes in, it already has the fees taken out? Or
> > does the whole customer amount come into the account as one figure
> > and then the bank takes out their fee?
> > >
> > > Also are you manually depositing (i.e creating deposits) for
> > > customer
> > payments or are you letting OFBiz automatically do it when the
> > customer pays?
> > >
> > > Either way - I'll take a look and get back to you.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > Sharan
> > >
> > > On 2018/03/21 10:33:30, Ingo Wolfmayr <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > I have a question regarding financial transaction, in detail the
> > service "postFinAccountTransToGl".
> > > >
> > > > When I create a "deposit" or a "withdraw" it creates the same
> > accounting transactions except changing the type of accounting
> transaction.
> > > >
> > > > Maybe I missunderstand the financial transactions. This is what
> > > > I am
> > trying to do:
> > > > A customer made a payment 100$. The bank subtracts a fee from my
> > account 5$. I thought by making a transaction "withdraw" I could
> > submit the fee to the appropriate glaccount and subtracting it from
> > the financial account (2nd part is fine).
> > > > Goal:
> > > > Debit: 5$ Fees
> > > > Credit: 5$ Bank
> > > >
> > > > Current situation:
> > > > Credit: 5$ Fees
> > > > Debit: 5$ Bank
> > > >
> > > > Creating a deposit creates the same financial transactions.
> > > >
> > > > When I create an adjustment with a negativ amount, the
> > > > glaccounts are
> > on the right side, but the value is negativ, which at the end leads
> > to the same result.
> > > >
> > > > I would be glad if someone could help me on this.
> > > >
> > > > Best regards,
> > > > Ingo
> > > >
> > >
> >
>