General questions
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Ian,
As discussed before, you would/could write whatever user docs you could just by using and testing OFBiz. For any other functionalities you can't easily figure out that way, you can then pop a quick question to me, and I'll do a 2-minute rip through the source codes to give you a definitive answer (aka a "source codes say so, and that's how it works" kinda answer). As for 10 minutes to know OFBiz, look through David's "overview of OFBiz framework". As for reading OFBiz like an open REFERENCE book, it has to do with the ability to rip through the source codes inside of minutes to conclusively figure out what buttons do what actions/effects. Jonathon Ian McNulty wrote: > Jonathon, > > Have just been thinking about what you've been saying about learning the > OFBiz framework inside of 10 minutes and how to read OFBiz 'like an open > REFERENCE book.' > > A short document describing exactly how to go about such a thing > couldn't take more than 10 minutes to read by definition, and probably > wouldn't take you much longer than that to write. > > I'd certainly be interested in reading such a thing and I bet a lot of > other people would too. It could be a major drawing point for our site. > > Just a thought! (Or a wish fulfilment on my part perhaps. Wading through > the 1000+ pages of awful, miserable rubbish generated by Les Austin, the > technical writer drafted in by David at apparently huge expense. Wishing > I could find something myself that I could put together in a couple of > hours rather than a couple of months!) > > Ian > > > > > Jonathon -- Improov wrote: >> Cedric, >> >> > Jonathon, a collaboration? Yes, why not? But I am sure I will not >> show you >> > much things because you are more experienced than me =) >> >> I started looking at OFBiz framework in Jan 07 (last month). I >> probably spent no more than a week(?) on learning OFBiz framework >> itself; much of my time was spent on data mapping and struggling(!!) >> with freeing my boss' data from legacy systems, and also on comparing >> OFBiz with other solutions (he kept knocking OFBiz big-time). I had no >> docs, no references (save xsd schemas), I even missed the cookbooks >> altogether (which really are quite skeletal, anyway). >> >> Believe me, OFBiz is easy to pick up. >> >> Somewhat exact time requirements (in case your boss asks): >> >> 1. 10 minutes to learn structure of OFBiz, so you know how to move >> around. >> >> 2. 1-2 minutes to look up anything related to OFBiz, since you'll be >> reading >> OFBiz like an open REFERENCE book. >> >> > there are questions about the use of screen/form widgets and >> > Beanshell/minilang. I am not well experienced but I don't know if >> developers >> > will like to learn these new things instead of working with what >> they know. >> >> As I mentioned in other threads, it IS possible to learn OFBiz inside >> of 10 minutes. >> >> But you could be right. IMHO, the lack of clear OFBiz framework >> references (not videos that are unsearchable) may be hindering the >> explosive growth of the OFBiz-enabled engineer population. Also IMHO, >> an explosion in the number of OFBiz-enabled engineers will likely feed >> back into OFBiz very rapidly. And further IMHO, David Jones (creator >> of OFBiz) will then probably have a whole army of willing volunteers >> to choose from (many open source projects employ ULTRA STRINGENT >> qualifying criteria to screen volunteers before making them >> committers; you do get many top brains in open source projects, so >> good that you/I probably can't ever argue with those). >> >> And finally, IMHO, I could be entirely wrong in above paragraph. I am >> not David Jones; I never created an open source project myself. >> >> Bottom line. OFBiz framework is solid (may need tweaks, but >> enhancements are on the way all the time). I'll be sorry if I missed it. >> >> Jonathon >> >> PRONZATO Cedric RD-BIZZ-GRE wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> Yes, you are all true! My approach is bottom-up learning. All of you >>> here seem to read in me like an opened book; I now know that OFBiz is >>> a training area for FBI Profilers. :) >>> >>> My aim (I think) was to fully understand the framework to be able to >>> change/replace/add new *core* functionalities and test them in a real >>> ecommerce environment. >>> Yet I never played with 'call to a service' or so as the documents >>> about that was enough clear. I said: All should be OK on this part. >>> Entity engine and Service engine are clear and in respect of all the >>> common and trusted laws of java development. (By the way is there any >>> plan to turn to the new standards? OFBiz was in advance in 2000 but >>> now much developer well knows Spring just to name one ...) >>> So after these 2 majors things there are questions about the use of >>> screen/form widgets and Beanshell/minilang. I am not well experienced >>> but I don't know if developers will like to learn these new things >>> instead of working with what they know. So I decided to not >>> investigate it much. >>> >>> Jonathon, a collaboration? Yes, why not? But I am sure I will not >>> show you much things because you are more experienced than me =) I >>> will check about what I am allowed to do with my company policy but I >>> am confidant as OFBiz is a personal choice not too much tied to a >>> project need. I stay you tuned. >>> >>> I now have to think about what is wrong on this approach, think about >>> what is the next thing I have to investigate ... >>> >>> Thank you all, >>> Regards, >>> Cédric >>> >>> -----Message d'origine----- >>> De : Jonathon -- Improov [mailto:[hidden email]] Envoyé : vendredi >>> 9 février 2007 20:12 >>> À : [hidden email] >>> Objet : Re: General questions >>> >>> Cedric, >>> >>> I get the same impression as Adrian too. >>> >>> Since you're from the R&D department, I suppose you're as much of a >>> freak as I am. I took apart OFBiz at the source code level too. >>> >>> Unless you're employing some language-processing heuristics in your >>> reverse-engineering, you'll be spending way too much time doing >>> brute-force studies from the bottom-up. Better to just learn from >>> playing with OFBiz framework (not the framework source codes), such >>> as service engine and entity engine, in this case. >>> >>> While it is true that learning by playing with the framework will >>> certainly be faster, I do admit it is not as easy as many would hope. >>> Technical references for working the OFBiz framework are not all in >>> one place, or even complete (mostly still in form of cookbooks at the >>> moment). Ie, there are no "javadocs equivalent" for the OFBiz >>> framework, except at >>> http://www.undersunconsulting.com/ecommerce/control/main . >>> >>> In fact, some folks here have never gotten around to using all of the >>> OFBiz framework. Some don't use screen/form widgets, but FTL instead. >>> Some use Beanshell rather than Minilang. >>> >>> I guess what I'm trying to say is this. Since you're from the R&D >>> department, it would be "within your scope" to learn the OFBiz >>> framework in any way possible, such as from studying the source codes >>> or playing with the framework itself. No use complaining what isn't >>> there; better to get things working somehow. >>> >>> For those not from the R&D department, though, then yes I do admit >>> OFBiz doesn't have a nice polished expensive "welcome mat/carpet" for >>> new users. >>> >>> If you do want to get help learning the OFBiz framework, you can >>> either work with me and write down all that I've discovered through >>> my own reverse-engineering, or you can employ some of the experts >>> here to teach you. I'll have to train some staff on OFBiz before I >>> sign off my current project, so your help here would be much >>> appreciated. >>> >>> Hope you enjoy OFBiz as much as I have. :) >>> >>> Jonathon >>> >>> Adrian Crum wrote: >>>> Cedric, >>>> >>>> I might be wrong, but I get the impression you are trying to >>>> approach OFBiz from the bottom up (examining java classes versus >>>> examining higher-level layers). I made that mistake when I first got >>>> involved with OFBiz. >>>> >>>> It would be better to look at things like the service engine, entity >>>> engine, screen widgets, etc. Get an idea of how the presentation >>>> layer works, then work your way down to the service layer, then down >>>> to the database schema, etc. >>>> >>>> Typically, the only reason anyone would want to get into the java >>>> source would be to fix a bug or make a modification at a very low >>>> level of the architecture "stack." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> PRONZATO Cedric RD-BIZZ-GRE wrote: >>>> >>>>> Re, >>>>> >>>>> Yes you are true but I think I didn't explained myself. >>>>> These questions may have been answered in the javadocs. I am sure >>>>> you know (you that architects of OFBiz) why you decided to make a >>>>> Container class and so on. >>>>> So perhaps a little enhancement of javadoc on foundation classes to >>>>> explain why and where to use it would be so nice. >>>>> >>>>> I hope I do not look like too much arrogant with my questions on >>>>> that thread "General questions"; I just expose the problems I was >>>>> faced to. >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> Cédric >>>>> >>>>> -----Message d'origine----- >>>>> De : David E. Jones [mailto:[hidden email]] Envoyé : vendredi >>>>> 9 février 2007 18:12 >>>>> À : [hidden email] >>>>> Objet : Re: General questions >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Feb 9, 2007, at 9:12 AM, PRONZATO Cedric RD-BIZZ-GRE wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> A related problem is how to do "framework" components, I mean >>>>>> patterns. I think about my SMSC component, I base my code on the >>>>>> mail container and questions arised: >>>>>> - When do I have to make my own xml language (ie. MCA for the mail >>>>>> container)? >>>>>> - When do I have to make a Container? I guess the answer is if you >>>>>> have to manage the lifetime (create/release connections, ...). >>>>>> - When do I have to make an Engine? >>>>>> - ... >>>>>> >>>>>> So I guess we can finish with the following statement: "How to >>>>>> *use* is quite well documented but how to *make* is a bit less". >>>>> >>>>> Have you ever found such a document for anything? >>>>> >>>>> My usual approach is generally something like: >>>>> >>>>> 1. understand everything that exists, or research anything that is >>>>> unclear 2. write something manually a number of times so you know >>>>> what is always the same, and what varies 3. see if a paramerized >>>>> tool would be helpful 4. apply a significant amount of "genius" >>>>> 5. apply even more "sweat" to try stuff 6. create an incredible >>>>> tool or service or however it is best implemented >>>>> >>>>> If there was a way to make creation deterministic, what would be >>>>> the point of creativity? >>>>> >>>>> -David >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > |
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In reply to this post by David E Jones
David,
David E. Jones wrote: > > You may have already guessed that this documentation was made for an > online system, not to go into PDFs. The reason they are in PDFs and we > won't let people access the online system anymore is that we don't > want to maintain and pay for the hosting and manually grant people > permission when they ask (and for the most part have not contributed > to the migration and editing effort as promised in order to get the > access). > > -David > By migration and editing effort do you mean transferring the PDFs into OFBiz End-User Documentation http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBENDUSER/Manager+References ? If so, I would like to try and help by migrating text and images from the PDFs into this space if that would be useful. I understand from http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-568 that this space requires special permissions. How would I go about getting that? My intention would be to start off getting to grips with the interface and layout policy by completing the Catalog section (currently less than half completed) if that would be acceptable. Ian |
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Hi Ian,
Ian McNulty wrote: > > I understand from http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-568 that > this space requires special permissions. How would I go about getting that? > You can create the new documents in the open wiki space, then we will review and move to the moderated space. Thanks, Jacopo |
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Hi Jacopo,
Thank you. Will do. Ian Jacopo Cappellato wrote: > Hi Ian, > > Ian McNulty wrote: >> >> I understand from http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-568 that >> this space requires special permissions. How would I go about getting >> that? >> > > You can create the new documents in the open wiki space, then we will > review and move to the moderated space. > > Thanks, > > Jacopo > > |
All Manager Reference PDFs Now Migrated to Wiki
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In reply to this post by Jacopo Cappellato
All,
David E. Jones wrote: > There is a lot of work to be done on editing and structuring and > reformatting the OFBiz documentation. In short, we need your help! I've just completed migration of the entire set of Undersun Manager Reference PDFs to the Wiki. I couldn't get access to the OFBiz End-User Documentation section so I've put them under my Confluence Home page at: http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/~ian@.../Manager+References or http://docs.ofbiz.org/x/0gQ Would somebody be kind enough to transfer them to their proper place at http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBENDUSER/Manager+References Currently there is only half of the Catalog Manager Reference in that location, so I decided to redo the whole of it from scratch for simplicity. On this 'first pass' through I have tried to preserve the original PDF structure where possible and haven't edited anything. Hopefully, now they have been transformed into an editable form they can be developed further. Ian Jacopo Cappellato wrote: > Ian, > > since a page location can be easily moved from one place to another, > you can just select what you prefer; maybe the best choice is to place > it under your Confluence Home page. > I'm a bit vague now but the doc site seems down at the moment... > > Jacopo > > > Ian McNulty wrote: >> Hi again Jacopo, >> >> I'd appreciate a bit more help on this please. >> >> I've managed to create a Confluence account and got to grips with the >> Wiki interface in just a couple of minutes but have been back and >> forward over the tree structure for more than an hour and a half now >> and am still unable to understand where to migrate the PDFs to. >> >> There seem to be at least 4 possible locations with various fragments >> of these documents already in place: >> >> Application Reference for Users >> <http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBIZ/Application+Reference+for+Users> >> >> * Application Reference for Manufacturing Manager Application (Tab) >> >> <http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBIZ/Application+Reference+for+Manufacturing+Manager+Application+%28Tab%29> >> >> * User Reference for Accounting Manager Application (Tab) >> >> <http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBIZ/User+Reference+for+Accounting+Manager+Application+%28Tab%29> >> >> o User Reference for Accounting Manager - Agreements (Tab) >> >> <http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBIZ/User+Reference+for+Accounting+Manager+-+Agreements+%28Tab%29> >> >> >> Sandbox <http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBIZ/Sandbox> >> >> * Application Screen Reference >> <http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBIZ/Application+Screen+Reference> >> >> * Accounting Screens Reference >> >> <http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBIZ/Accounting+Screens+Reference> >> * Catalog Screens Reference^ >> >> <http://docs.ofbiz.org/pages/createpage.action?spaceKey=OFBIZ&title=Catalog+Screens+Reference&linkCreation=true&fromPageId=452> >> >> * Content Screens Reference^ >> >> <http://docs.ofbiz.org/pages/createpage.action?spaceKey=OFBIZ&title=Content+Screens+Reference&linkCreation=true&fromPageId=452> >> >> * Example Screens Reference^ >> >> <http://docs.ofbiz.org/pages/createpage.action?spaceKey=OFBIZ&title=Example+Screens+Reference&linkCreation=true&fromPageId=452> >> >> * Facility Screens Reference^ >> >> <http://docs.ofbiz.org/pages/createpage.action?spaceKey=OFBIZ&title=Facility+Screens+Reference&linkCreation=true&fromPageId=452> >> >> * Manufacturing Screens Reference^ >> >> <http://docs.ofbiz.org/pages/createpage.action?spaceKey=OFBIZ&title=Manufacturing+Screens+Reference&linkCreation=true&fromPageId=452> >> >> * Marketing Screens Reference^ >> >> <http://docs.ofbiz.org/pages/createpage.action?spaceKey=OFBIZ&title=Marketing+Screens+Reference&linkCreation=true&fromPageId=452> >> >> * Order Screens Reference^ >> >> <http://docs.ofbiz.org/pages/createpage.action?spaceKey=OFBIZ&title=Order+Screens+Reference&linkCreation=true&fromPageId=452> >> >> * Party Screens Reference^ >> >> <http://docs.ofbiz.org/pages/createpage.action?spaceKey=OFBIZ&title=Party+Screens+Reference&linkCreation=true&fromPageId=452> >> >> * Shark Workflow Screens Reference^ >> >> <http://docs.ofbiz.org/pages/createpage.action?spaceKey=OFBIZ&title=Shark+Workflow+Screens+Reference&linkCreation=true&fromPageId=452> >> >> * WorkEffort Screens Reference >> >> <http://docs.ofbiz.org/pages/createpage.action?spaceKey=OFBIZ&title=WorkEffort+Screens+Reference&linkCreation=true&fromPageId=452> >> >> >> * CATALOG <http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBIZ/CATALOG> >> >> * Introduction <http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBIZ/Introduction> >> * Search Products >> <http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBIZ/Search+Products> >> * Browse Catalogs >> <http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBIZ/Browse+Catalogs> >> * Browse Categories >> <http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBIZ/Browse+Categories> >> * Category Products >> <http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBIZ/Category+Products> >> * Catalog Administration Main Page >> >> <http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBIZ/Catalog+Administration+Main+Page> >> * Catalog - Edit Product Catalog screens >> >> <http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBIZ/Catalog+-+Edit+Product+Catalog+screens> >> >> * Category - Edit Category screens >> >> <http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBIZ/Category+-+Edit+Category+screens> >> * Tab - Catalog Features^ >> >> <http://docs.ofbiz.org/pages/createpage.action?spaceKey=OFBIZ&title=Tab+-+Catalog+Features&linkCreation=true&fromPageId=250> >> >> * Tab - Catalog Promos^ >> >> <http://docs.ofbiz.org/pages/createpage.action?spaceKey=OFBIZ&title=Tab+-+Catalog+Promos&linkCreation=true&fromPageId=250> >> >> * Tab - Catalog PriceRules^ >> >> <http://docs.ofbiz.org/pages/createpage.action?spaceKey=OFBIZ&title=Tab+-+Catalog+PriceRules&linkCreation=true&fromPageId=250> >> >> * Tab - Catalog Stores^ >> >> <http://docs.ofbiz.org/pages/createpage.action?spaceKey=OFBIZ&title=Tab+-+Catalog+Stores&linkCreation=true&fromPageId=250> >> >> * Tab - Catalog Thesaurus^ >> >> <http://docs.ofbiz.org/pages/createpage.action?spaceKey=OFBIZ&title=Tab+-+Catalog+Thesaurus&linkCreation=true&fromPageId=250> >> >> * Tab - Catalog Reviews^ >> >> <http://docs.ofbiz.org/pages/createpage.action?spaceKey=OFBIZ&title=Tab+-+Catalog+Reviews&linkCreation=true&fromPageId=250> >> >> * Tab - Configurations >> >> <http://docs.ofbiz.org/pages/createpage.action?spaceKey=OFBIZ&title=Tab+-+Configurations&linkCreation=true&fromPageId=250> >> >> >> * OFBiz Applications User Manual >> >> <http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBIZ/OFBiz+Applications+User+Manual> >> o Catalogs <http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBIZ/Catalogs> >> >> >> Please advise which location I should migrate the PDFs to. >> >> Thanks in advance. >> >> Ian >> >> >> >> Jacopo Cappellato wrote: >>> Hi Ian, >>> >>> Ian McNulty wrote: >>>> >>>> I understand from http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-568 >>>> that this space requires special permissions. How would I go about >>>> getting that? >>>> >>> >>> You can create the new documents in the open wiki space, then we >>> will review and move to the moderated space. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Jacopo >>> >>> > > > > -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- mcnultyMEDIA 60 Birkdale Gardens Durham DH1 2UL t: +44 (0)191 384 4736 e: [hidden email] w: www.mcnultymedia.co.uk ============================================================================================== This communication is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s) named above and is confidential. Any form of distribution, copying, discussion or use of this communication, its contents, or any information contained herein without prior consent is strictly prohibited. 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