Implement different VAT Behaviour

[Adrian Stern-2]

Hi

For smaller businesses we have an alternative kind of VAT called
Saldosteuersatz (Balance based taxes). They work similar to regular VAT
with a few key differences.

On Regular VAT i have a sales order for products with a total amount of
100.- witch will create a 108.- invoice (+8% VAT). These 8% will be posted
to the Tax Account in GL. At the end of a periode i have to pay whatever
amount is inside this account.
108 -> Accounts Receivable (Debit)
8 -> Tax Payable

On Balance based taxes I am allowed to bill the customer with VAT-Rates but
are only obliged to pay taxes of 6% of the invoices total.
I have the same sales order for 100.- resulting in an invoice of 108.-. But
this time the 8% VAT shall not be posted to GL at all. In the end of the
year i have to pay 6% (Balance based tax rate) of the billed 108.-
resulting in a payment of 6.48.-.
108 -> Accounts Receivable (Debit) (Bill)
6.48 -> Tax Payable

*I would like to hear your opinions about how to best implement this.*

I could implement the 8% taxes with price rules (Default Price + 8%) and
implement the 6% as VAT. The problem here is that the resulting invoice
will show a total of (product price) + (price rule) + (Vat) -> 100 + 8 +
4.48 = 114.48 while i'am only allowed to invoice 108.-.

Correct would be:
1) A Bill for the amount of Product Price + VAT = 108.-
2) 6% of 108.- posted to the Tax account


Freundliche Grüsse

Adrian Stern
unchained - web solutions

[hidden email]
[phone]

[Pierre Smits]

Adrian,

Always keep in mind what the legal and fiscal requirements are that are
imposed on your company.

If I understand you posting correctly you are required to include tax  for
8% VAT regarding the net amount on the invoice to your customer. Your
customer must pay this 108% to you. I also understand that at the end of a
certain period you must submit your VAT tax statement pertaining the
invoice of 100. On that statement you have to declare 6% of 108 (100 +8%)
as the VAT due.

Now, the following question might help you to find the answer to your
question/request: what about the difference between the 8 mentioned on the
invoice and the 6,48 that you are required to pay to the tax authority? Are
you required to refund the customer, or is it some kind of subsidy scheme
in your country to further your company?

Anyway, I would suggest to avoid - as much as possible - increasing your
invoicing scheme and your gl setup with some complex price ruling mechanism
to get to the 6.48.
If you are expected (at periods end) to have only included VAT up to 6.48
you can either correct this manually then, or reduce the percentage through
specific tax categorisation of those product-customer combinations.

Tax is never easy!

Best regards,

Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com

[Adrian Stern-2]

Yes. Tax is not easy. You did understand me correctly and yes it is some
kind of subsidy scheme.

I'm afraid I cannot follow you. Let me racap.

Since i always bill the customer for the net amount plus 8% VAT - I should
configure that. This will fill my Tax account with the amounts due for the
different VAT Rates and also create me the correct invoice to bill the
customer.

But how would I correct this after? I would have to check each invoice by
hand (or create an export for calculation) and manually subtract this
amount from the tax account. This would be a lot of work. In addition,
would the balance be wrong most of the time since it includes the VAT Rates
and not the SSS Rate. I don't believe any accountant would like that.

What do you mean by "specific tax categorization of product-customer
combinations"? I assume you don't mean the "categories" tab from tax
authorities? So what do you mean more specifically by reducing the
percentage with it?

Freundliche Grüsse

Adrian Stern
unchained - web solutions

[hidden email]
[phone]

On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 1:32 PM, Pierre Smits <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Adrian,
>
> Always keep in mind what the legal and fiscal requirements are that are
> imposed on your company.
>
> If I understand you posting correctly you are required to include tax  for
> 8% VAT regarding the net amount on the invoice to your customer. Your
> customer must pay this 108% to you. I also understand that at the end of a
> certain period you must submit your VAT tax statement pertaining the
> invoice of 100. On that statement you have to declare 6% of 108 (100 +8%)
> as the VAT due.
>
> Now, the following question might help you to find the answer to your
> question/request: what about the difference between the 8 mentioned on the
> invoice and the 6,48 that you are required to pay to the tax authority? Are
> you required to refund the customer, or is it some kind of subsidy scheme
> in your country to further your company?
>
> Anyway, I would suggest to avoid - as much as possible - increasing your
> invoicing scheme and your gl setup with some complex price ruling mechanism
> to get to the 6.48.
> If you are expected (at periods end) to have only included VAT up to 6.48
> you can either correct this manually then, or reduce the percentage through
> specific tax categorisation of those product-customer combinations.
>
> Tax is never easy!
>
> Best regards,
>
> Pierre Smits
>
> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> Services and Retail & Trade
> http://www.orrtiz.com
>

[Pierre Smits]

Hi Adrian,

Please see my comment(s) inline.

Regards,

Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com

On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 3:30 PM, Adrian Stern <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Yes. Tax is not easy. You did understand me correctly and yes it is some
> kind of subsidy scheme.
>
> I'm afraid I cannot follow you. Let me racap.
>
> Since i always bill the customer for the net amount plus 8% VAT - I should
> configure that. This will fill my Tax account with the amounts due for the
> different VAT Rates and also create me the correct invoice to bill the
> customer.
>

Yes, in order to get correct invoicing and VAT collection from your
customer you have to set the tax category and the appropriate percentage
(8%). This will lead to GL transactions of the following kind:

Debtors (accounts receivable): 108 debit (asset)
VAT collected: 8 credit (liability)
Turnover on sales: 100 credit (income)

Nothing needs to be done additionally configuration wise.


>
> But how would I correct this after? I would have to check each invoice by
> hand (or create an export for calculation) and manually subtract this
> amount from the tax account. This would be a lot of work. In addition,
> would the balance be wrong most of the time since it includes the VAT Rates
> and not the SSS Rate. I don't believe any accountant would like that.
>

Now, whenever (at the end of each period) you have to submit your VAT
declaration to the Swiss tax authority, you have the following information
at your disposal to generate the statement:

Total VAT applicable turnover: 100
Total VAT collected: 8
Total VAT due (100 + 8) x 6%  = 6.42

So your GL transaction regarding this would/could be:
VAT Transfer account: 8 debit (countering the previous transaction entry,
rendering the balance to 0)
VAT due: 6.42 credit (liability)
VAT deferred 1.58 credit (income - subsidy aspect for small companies)

This would eliminate the need to implement the following:

>
> What do you mean by "specific tax categorization of product-customer
> combinations"? I assume you don't mean the "categories" tab from tax
> authorities? So what do you mean more specifically by reducing the
> percentage with it?
>
> Freundliche Grüsse
>
> Adrian Stern
> unchained - web solutions
>
> [hidden email]
> [phone]
>
> On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 1:32 PM, Pierre Smits <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Adrian,
> >
> > Always keep in mind what the legal and fiscal requirements are that are
> > imposed on your company.
> >
> > If I understand you posting correctly you are required to include tax
> for
> > 8% VAT regarding the net amount on the invoice to your customer. Your
> > customer must pay this 108% to you. I also understand that at the end of
> a
> > certain period you must submit your VAT tax statement pertaining the
> > invoice of 100. On that statement you have to declare 6% of 108 (100 +8%)
> > as the VAT due.
> >
> > Now, the following question might help you to find the answer to your
> > question/request: what about the difference between the 8 mentioned on
> the
> > invoice and the 6,48 that you are required to pay to the tax authority?
> Are
> > you required to refund the customer, or is it some kind of subsidy scheme
> > in your country to further your company?
> >
> > Anyway, I would suggest to avoid - as much as possible - increasing your
> > invoicing scheme and your gl setup with some complex price ruling
> mechanism
> > to get to the 6.48.
> > If you are expected (at periods end) to have only included VAT up to 6.48
> > you can either correct this manually then, or reduce the percentage
> through
> > specific tax categorisation of those product-customer combinations.
> >
> > Tax is never easy!
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Pierre Smits
> >
> > *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> > Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> > Based Manufacturing, Professional
> > Services and Retail & Trade
> > http://www.orrtiz.com
> >
>

[Adrian Stern-2]

Hi Pierre

As always tanks for your effort.

You say I've got this information at my disposal. In what form? Where? I'am
asking because I'm not sure if you're implying that I can use those values
in code or if I find them somewhere else.

One more Problem. I should've mentioned it from the start but there is more
than one SSS rate, just as there is more than one VAT rate. Depending on
the product/service sold i have to use one of these rates here
<http://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classified-compilation/20102858/index.html> to
calculate Total VAT due.

If i could get a split like:

   - Total VAT applicable turnover *rateA*: 100
   - Total VAT collected *rateA*: 8
   - Total VAT due *rateA* (100+8) x 6% = 6.42
   - -------------------------------------------------------------------
   - Total VAT applicable turnover *rateB*: 50
   - Total VAT collected *rateB*: 2.5
   - Total VAT due *rateB* (100+2.5) x 3% = 3.075

Like creating different Tax accounts to use for the different SSS rates.
Would such a setup be possible? How would I Access the VAT collected,
turnover, due information?

Freundliche Grüsse

Adrian Stern
unchained - web solutions

[hidden email]
[phone]

On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 4:36 PM, Pierre Smits <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hi Adrian,
>
> Please see my comment(s) inline.
>
> Regards,
>
> Pierre Smits
>
> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> Services and Retail & Trade
> http://www.orrtiz.com
>
> On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 3:30 PM, Adrian Stern <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Yes. Tax is not easy. You did understand me correctly and yes it is some
> > kind of subsidy scheme.
> >
> > I'm afraid I cannot follow you. Let me racap.
> >
> > Since i always bill the customer for the net amount plus 8% VAT - I
> should
> > configure that. This will fill my Tax account with the amounts due for
> the
> > different VAT Rates and also create me the correct invoice to bill the
> > customer.
> >
>
> Yes, in order to get correct invoicing and VAT collection from your
> customer you have to set the tax category and the appropriate percentage
> (8%). This will lead to GL transactions of the following kind:
>
> Debtors (accounts receivable): 108 debit (asset)
> VAT collected: 8 credit (liability)
> Turnover on sales: 100 credit (income)
>
> Nothing needs to be done additionally configuration wise.
>
>
> >
> > But how would I correct this after? I would have to check each invoice by
> > hand (or create an export for calculation) and manually subtract this
> > amount from the tax account. This would be a lot of work. In addition,
> > would the balance be wrong most of the time since it includes the VAT
> Rates
> > and not the SSS Rate. I don't believe any accountant would like that.
> >
>
> Now, whenever (at the end of each period) you have to submit your VAT
> declaration to the Swiss tax authority, you have the following information
> at your disposal to generate the statement:
>
> Total VAT applicable turnover: 100
> Total VAT collected: 8
> Total VAT due (100 + 8) x 6%  = 6.42
>
> So your GL transaction regarding this would/could be:
> VAT Transfer account: 8 debit (countering the previous transaction entry,
> rendering the balance to 0)
> VAT due: 6.42 credit (liability)
> VAT deferred 1.58 credit (income - subsidy aspect for small companies)
>
> This would eliminate the need to implement the following:
>
>
> >
> > What do you mean by "specific tax categorization of product-customer
> > combinations"? I assume you don't mean the "categories" tab from tax
> > authorities? So what do you mean more specifically by reducing the
> > percentage with it?
> >
> > Freundliche Grüsse
> >
> > Adrian Stern
> > unchained - web solutions
> >
> > [hidden email]
> > [phone]
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 1:32 PM, Pierre Smits <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Adrian,
> > >
> > > Always keep in mind what the legal and fiscal requirements are that are
> > > imposed on your company.
> > >
> > > If I understand you posting correctly you are required to include tax
> > for
> > > 8% VAT regarding the net amount on the invoice to your customer. Your
> > > customer must pay this 108% to you. I also understand that at the end
> of
> > a
> > > certain period you must submit your VAT tax statement pertaining the
> > > invoice of 100. On that statement you have to declare 6% of 108 (100
> +8%)
> > > as the VAT due.
> > >
> > > Now, the following question might help you to find the answer to your
> > > question/request: what about the difference between the 8 mentioned on
> > the
> > > invoice and the 6,48 that you are required to pay to the tax authority?
> > Are
> > > you required to refund the customer, or is it some kind of subsidy
> scheme
> > > in your country to further your company?
> > >
> > > Anyway, I would suggest to avoid - as much as possible - increasing
> your
> > > invoicing scheme and your gl setup with some complex price ruling
> > mechanism
> > > to get to the 6.48.
> > > If you are expected (at periods end) to have only included VAT up to
> 6.48
> > > you can either correct this manually then, or reduce the percentage
> > through
> > > specific tax categorisation of those product-customer combinations.
> > >
> > > Tax is never easy!
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > >
> > > Pierre Smits
> > >
> > > *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> > > Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> > > Based Manufacturing, Professional
> > > Services and Retail & Trade
> > > http://www.orrtiz.com
> > >
> >
>

[Pierre Smits]

Adrian,

No worries....

It seems to me that you're missing some vital knowledge regarding working
with the accounting module of OFBiz. I advise you to get the 'Getting
Started With Apache OFBiz Accounting' book, written by our fellow
contributor Sharan Foga. It will be a EURO 50,-- (or thereabouts) well
spent to get acquainted with the component.

For more details on the book, see:
http://www.lulu.com/shop/sharan-foga/getting-started-with-apache-ofbiz-accounting/paperback/product-21841766.html
, or contact Sharan.

Furthermore you can:

   - get in touch with someone who understands Swiss accounting and taxes
   and solicit his advice, and/or
   - get in touch with someone who understands accounting in relation to
   OFBiz and solicit support

to get your issue resolved. I am certain that such much be achievable.

Best regards,


Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com

On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 10:12 AM, Adrian Stern <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hi Pierre
>
> As always tanks for your effort.
>
> You say I've got this information at my disposal. In what form? Where? I'am
> asking because I'm not sure if you're implying that I can use those values
> in code or if I find them somewhere else.
>
> One more Problem. I should've mentioned it from the start but there is more
> than one SSS rate, just as there is more than one VAT rate. Depending on
> the product/service sold i have to use one of these rates here
> <http://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classified-compilation/20102858/index.html> to
> calculate Total VAT due.
>
> If i could get a split like:
>
>    - Total VAT applicable turnover *rateA*: 100
>    - Total VAT collected *rateA*: 8
>    - Total VAT due *rateA* (100+8) x 6% = 6.42
>    - -------------------------------------------------------------------
>    - Total VAT applicable turnover *rateB*: 50
>    - Total VAT collected *rateB*: 2.5
>    - Total VAT due *rateB* (100+2.5) x 3% = 3.075
>
> Like creating different Tax accounts to use for the different SSS rates.
> Would such a setup be possible? How would I Access the VAT collected,
> turnover, due information?
>
> Freundliche Grüsse
>
> Adrian Stern
> unchained - web solutions
>
> [hidden email]
> [phone]
>
> On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 4:36 PM, Pierre Smits <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Adrian,
> >
> > Please see my comment(s) inline.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Pierre Smits
> >
> > *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> > Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> > Based Manufacturing, Professional
> > Services and Retail & Trade
> > http://www.orrtiz.com
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 3:30 PM, Adrian Stern <[hidden email]
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Yes. Tax is not easy. You did understand me correctly and yes it is
> some
> > > kind of subsidy scheme.
> > >
> > > I'm afraid I cannot follow you. Let me racap.
> > >
> > > Since i always bill the customer for the net amount plus 8% VAT - I
> > should
> > > configure that. This will fill my Tax account with the amounts due for
> > the
> > > different VAT Rates and also create me the correct invoice to bill the
> > > customer.
> > >
> >
> > Yes, in order to get correct invoicing and VAT collection from your
> > customer you have to set the tax category and the appropriate percentage
> > (8%). This will lead to GL transactions of the following kind:
> >
> > Debtors (accounts receivable): 108 debit (asset)
> > VAT collected: 8 credit (liability)
> > Turnover on sales: 100 credit (income)
> >
> > Nothing needs to be done additionally configuration wise.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > But how would I correct this after? I would have to check each invoice
> by
> > > hand (or create an export for calculation) and manually subtract this
> > > amount from the tax account. This would be a lot of work. In addition,
> > > would the balance be wrong most of the time since it includes the VAT
> > Rates
> > > and not the SSS Rate. I don't believe any accountant would like that.
> > >
> >
> > Now, whenever (at the end of each period) you have to submit your VAT
> > declaration to the Swiss tax authority, you have the following
> information
> > at your disposal to generate the statement:
> >
> > Total VAT applicable turnover: 100
> > Total VAT collected: 8
> > Total VAT due (100 + 8) x 6%  = 6.42
> >
> > So your GL transaction regarding this would/could be:
> > VAT Transfer account: 8 debit (countering the previous transaction entry,
> > rendering the balance to 0)
> > VAT due: 6.42 credit (liability)
> > VAT deferred 1.58 credit (income - subsidy aspect for small companies)
> >
> > This would eliminate the need to implement the following:
> >
> >
> > >
> > > What do you mean by "specific tax categorization of product-customer
> > > combinations"? I assume you don't mean the "categories" tab from tax
> > > authorities? So what do you mean more specifically by reducing the
> > > percentage with it?
> > >
> > > Freundliche Grüsse
> > >
> > > Adrian Stern
> > > unchained - web solutions
> > >
> > > [hidden email]
> > > [phone]
> > >
> > > On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 1:32 PM, Pierre Smits <[hidden email]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Adrian,
> > > >
> > > > Always keep in mind what the legal and fiscal requirements are that
> are
> > > > imposed on your company.
> > > >
> > > > If I understand you posting correctly you are required to include tax
> > > for
> > > > 8% VAT regarding the net amount on the invoice to your customer. Your
> > > > customer must pay this 108% to you. I also understand that at the end
> > of
> > > a
> > > > certain period you must submit your VAT tax statement pertaining the
> > > > invoice of 100. On that statement you have to declare 6% of 108 (100
> > +8%)
> > > > as the VAT due.
> > > >
> > > > Now, the following question might help you to find the answer to your
> > > > question/request: what about the difference between the 8 mentioned
> on
> > > the
> > > > invoice and the 6,48 that you are required to pay to the tax
> authority?
> > > Are
> > > > you required to refund the customer, or is it some kind of subsidy
> > scheme
> > > > in your country to further your company?
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, I would suggest to avoid - as much as possible - increasing
> > your
> > > > invoicing scheme and your gl setup with some complex price ruling
> > > mechanism
> > > > to get to the 6.48.
> > > > If you are expected (at periods end) to have only included VAT up to
> > 6.48
> > > > you can either correct this manually then, or reduce the percentage
> > > through
> > > > specific tax categorisation of those product-customer combinations.
> > > >
> > > > Tax is never easy!
> > > >
> > > > Best regards,
> > > >
> > > > Pierre Smits
> > > >
> > > > *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> > > > Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> > > > Based Manufacturing, Professional
> > > > Services and Retail & Trade
> > > > http://www.orrtiz.com
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

[Adrian Stern-2]

Hi Pierre

I'm in the process of reading this book. So far i'm half way trough and it
did clarify most of my configuration issues.
The main issue lies in the internal workings of ofbiz which are not
documented too well.

Also there is a bit of a language barriere, which may be the main reason
for me asking back.

*For example:*
Total VAT applicable turnover: 100
Total VAT collected: 8
Total VAT due (100 + 8) x 6%  = 6.42

I know what those names mean and what the values represent. But i'm not
entierly sure if i have access (do they exist in ofbiz?) to those values to
work with. As far as i know there is only one value available which would
be "Total VAT collected" - i believe this represents the GlAccount where
the VAT billed to the customer is posted to.(Tax Authority GlAccount)
As to the other one, "Total VAT applicable turnover" - where would this be
stored? In what way would i access it?

*Second:*

Since there is more than one SSS rate involved i cannot post all the VAT
collected to the same account, because i have to calculate the "Total VAT
due" for only certain transactions.
For Example:

   - *rateA*: Beer without alcohol: SSS is 0.1
   - *rateB*: Beer with alcohol: SSS is 3.7

Thats the Reason for my previous example with the Accounts per SSS rate:

   - Total VAT applicable turnover *rateA*: 100
   - Total VAT collected *rateA*: 8
   - Total VAT due *rateA* (100+8) x 0.1% = x.zy
   - -------------------------------------------------------------------
   - Total VAT applicable turnover *rateB*: 50
   - Total VAT collected *rateB*: 2.5
   - Total VAT due *rateB* (100+2.5) x 3.7% = x.zy

Thus my idea of creating one Tax-Account per SSS rate to which all "VAT
collected" will be postet in regards to the SSS rate they need to be
further processed with.

For now i'm seeking a viable approach to later implemet the SSS Tax. If i
had those three accounts per SSS rate: *applicable turnover*, *collected*,
*due* i could calculate *due* by turnover and collected and as you
mentioned reset those two accounts to 0 while keeping *due* until the end
of the period.


Freundliche Grüsse

Adrian Stern
unchained - web solutions

[hidden email]
[phone]

On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 9:07 AM, Pierre Smits <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Adrian,
>
> No worries....
>
> It seems to me that you're missing some vital knowledge regarding working
> with the accounting module of OFBiz. I advise you to get the 'Getting
> Started With Apache OFBiz Accounting' book, written by our fellow
> contributor Sharan Foga. It will be a EURO 50,-- (or thereabouts) well
> spent to get acquainted with the component.
>
> For more details on the book, see:
>
> http://www.lulu.com/shop/sharan-foga/getting-started-with-apache-ofbiz-accounting/paperback/product-21841766.html
> , or contact Sharan.
>
> Furthermore you can:
>
>    - get in touch with someone who understands Swiss accounting and taxes
>    and solicit his advice, and/or
>    - get in touch with someone who understands accounting in relation to
>    OFBiz and solicit support
>
> to get your issue resolved. I am certain that such much be achievable.
>
> Best regards,
>
>
> Pierre Smits
>
> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> Services and Retail & Trade
> http://www.orrtiz.com
>
> On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 10:12 AM, Adrian Stern <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Pierre
> >
> > As always tanks for your effort.
> >
> > You say I've got this information at my disposal. In what form? Where?
> I'am
> > asking because I'm not sure if you're implying that I can use those
> values
> > in code or if I find them somewhere else.
> >
> > One more Problem. I should've mentioned it from the start but there is
> more
> > than one SSS rate, just as there is more than one VAT rate. Depending on
> > the product/service sold i have to use one of these rates here
> > <http://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classified-compilation/20102858/index.html>
> to
> > calculate Total VAT due.
> >
> > If i could get a split like:
> >
> >    - Total VAT applicable turnover *rateA*: 100
> >    - Total VAT collected *rateA*: 8
> >    - Total VAT due *rateA* (100+8) x 6% = 6.42
> >    - -------------------------------------------------------------------
> >    - Total VAT applicable turnover *rateB*: 50
> >    - Total VAT collected *rateB*: 2.5
> >    - Total VAT due *rateB* (100+2.5) x 3% = 3.075
> >
> > Like creating different Tax accounts to use for the different SSS rates.
> > Would such a setup be possible? How would I Access the VAT collected,
> > turnover, due information?
> >
> > Freundliche Grüsse
> >
> > Adrian Stern
> > unchained - web solutions
> >
> > [hidden email]
> > [phone]
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 4:36 PM, Pierre Smits <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Adrian,
> > >
> > > Please see my comment(s) inline.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Pierre Smits
> > >
> > > *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> > > Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> > > Based Manufacturing, Professional
> > > Services and Retail & Trade
> > > http://www.orrtiz.com
> > >
> > > On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 3:30 PM, Adrian Stern <
> [hidden email]
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Yes. Tax is not easy. You did understand me correctly and yes it is
> > some
> > > > kind of subsidy scheme.
> > > >
> > > > I'm afraid I cannot follow you. Let me racap.
> > > >
> > > > Since i always bill the customer for the net amount plus 8% VAT - I
> > > should
> > > > configure that. This will fill my Tax account with the amounts due
> for
> > > the
> > > > different VAT Rates and also create me the correct invoice to bill
> the
> > > > customer.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Yes, in order to get correct invoicing and VAT collection from your
> > > customer you have to set the tax category and the appropriate
> percentage
> > > (8%). This will lead to GL transactions of the following kind:
> > >
> > > Debtors (accounts receivable): 108 debit (asset)
> > > VAT collected: 8 credit (liability)
> > > Turnover on sales: 100 credit (income)
> > >
> > > Nothing needs to be done additionally configuration wise.
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > But how would I correct this after? I would have to check each
> invoice
> > by
> > > > hand (or create an export for calculation) and manually subtract this
> > > > amount from the tax account. This would be a lot of work. In
> addition,
> > > > would the balance be wrong most of the time since it includes the VAT
> > > Rates
> > > > and not the SSS Rate. I don't believe any accountant would like that.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Now, whenever (at the end of each period) you have to submit your VAT
> > > declaration to the Swiss tax authority, you have the following
> > information
> > > at your disposal to generate the statement:
> > >
> > > Total VAT applicable turnover: 100
> > > Total VAT collected: 8
> > > Total VAT due (100 + 8) x 6%  = 6.42
> > >
> > > So your GL transaction regarding this would/could be:
> > > VAT Transfer account: 8 debit (countering the previous transaction
> entry,
> > > rendering the balance to 0)
> > > VAT due: 6.42 credit (liability)
> > > VAT deferred 1.58 credit (income - subsidy aspect for small companies)
> > >
> > > This would eliminate the need to implement the following:
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > What do you mean by "specific tax categorization of product-customer
> > > > combinations"? I assume you don't mean the "categories" tab from tax
> > > > authorities? So what do you mean more specifically by reducing the
> > > > percentage with it?
> > > >
> > > > Freundliche Grüsse
> > > >
> > > > Adrian Stern
> > > > unchained - web solutions
> > > >
> > > > [hidden email]
> > > > [phone]
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 1:32 PM, Pierre Smits <
> [hidden email]>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Adrian,
> > > > >
> > > > > Always keep in mind what the legal and fiscal requirements are that
> > are
> > > > > imposed on your company.
> > > > >
> > > > > If I understand you posting correctly you are required to include
> tax
> > > > for
> > > > > 8% VAT regarding the net amount on the invoice to your customer.
> Your
> > > > > customer must pay this 108% to you. I also understand that at the
> end
> > > of
> > > > a
> > > > > certain period you must submit your VAT tax statement pertaining
> the
> > > > > invoice of 100. On that statement you have to declare 6% of 108
> (100
> > > +8%)
> > > > > as the VAT due.
> > > > >
> > > > > Now, the following question might help you to find the answer to
> your
> > > > > question/request: what about the difference between the 8 mentioned
> > on
> > > > the
> > > > > invoice and the 6,48 that you are required to pay to the tax
> > authority?
> > > > Are
> > > > > you required to refund the customer, or is it some kind of subsidy
> > > scheme
> > > > > in your country to further your company?
> > > > >
> > > > > Anyway, I would suggest to avoid - as much as possible - increasing
> > > your
> > > > > invoicing scheme and your gl setup with some complex price ruling
> > > > mechanism
> > > > > to get to the 6.48.
> > > > > If you are expected (at periods end) to have only included VAT up
> to
> > > 6.48
> > > > > you can either correct this manually then, or reduce the percentage
> > > > through
> > > > > specific tax categorisation of those product-customer combinations.
> > > > >
> > > > > Tax is never easy!
> > > > >
> > > > > Best regards,
> > > > >
> > > > > Pierre Smits
> > > > >
> > > > > *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> > > > > Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> > > > > Based Manufacturing, Professional
> > > > > Services and Retail & Trade
> > > > > http://www.orrtiz.com
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

[Pierre Smits]

Hi Adrian,

See my comments inline.

Regards,

Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com

On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 3:03 PM, Adrian Stern <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hi Pierre
>
> I'm in the process of reading this book. So far i'm half way trough and it
> did clarify most of my configuration issues.
> The main issue lies in the internal workings of ofbiz which are not
> documented too well.
>
> Also there is a bit of a language barriere, which may be the main reason
> for me asking back.
>
> *For example:*
> Total VAT applicable turnover: 100
> Total VAT collected: 8
> Total VAT due (100 + 8) x 6%  = 6.42
>
> I know what those names mean and what the values represent. But i'm not
> entierly sure if i have access (do they exist in ofbiz?) to those values to
> work with. As far as i know there is only one value available which would
> be "Total VAT collected" - i believe this represents the GlAccount where
> the VAT billed to the customer is posted to.(Tax Authority GlAccount)
> As to the other one, "Total VAT applicable turnover" - where would this be
> stored? In what way would i access it?
>

This would be equivalent to the gl account that you use to register your
sales to.

>
> *Second:*
>
> Since there is more than one SSS rate involved i cannot post all the VAT
> collected to the same account, because i have to calculate the "Total VAT
> due" for only certain transactions.
> For Example:
>
>    - *rateA*: Beer without alcohol: SSS is 0.1
>    - *rateB*: Beer with alcohol: SSS is 3.7
>
> Thats the Reason for my previous example with the Accounts per SSS rate:
>
>    - Total VAT applicable turnover *rateA*: 100
>    - Total VAT collected *rateA*: 8
>    - Total VAT due *rateA* (100+8) x 0.1% = x.zy
>    - -------------------------------------------------------------------
>    - Total VAT applicable turnover *rateB*: 50
>    - Total VAT collected *rateB*: 2.5
>    - Total VAT due *rateB* (100+2.5) x 3.7% = x.zy
>
> Thus my idea of creating one Tax-Account per SSS rate to which all "VAT
> collected" will be postet in regards to the SSS rate they need to be
> further processed with.
>

It seems to me that your predicament is equivalent to the following JIRA
issue: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5403


>
> For now i'm seeking a viable approach to later implemet the SSS Tax. If i
> had those three accounts per SSS rate: *applicable turnover*, *collected*,
> *due* i could calculate *due* by turnover and collected and as you
> mentioned reset those two accounts to 0 while keeping *due* until the end
> of the period.
>
> Have a look at balance and income statement generated by your OFBiz
implementation.

>
> Freundliche Grüsse
>
> Adrian Stern
> unchained - web solutions
>
> [hidden email]
> [phone]
>
> On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 9:07 AM, Pierre Smits <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>

[Adrian Stern-2]

Ok. Now i understand.

Overall it is a *yes* to the multi-account approach in the exact way
described above, but additionally with multiple debit-accounts also per SSS
rate. With this it is easy to calculate.
An existing drawback is the JIRA issue you mentioned, because due to that
it is not possible to post to multiple Tax-Accounts out of a single
Tax-Authority. Like the description mentions, its necessary to be able to
post to a tax-Account by Product Category.

Maybe it is possible to simply create multiple tax-Authorities per SSS-Rate
(nested ones) as a workaround?

Freundliche Grüsse

Adrian Stern
unchained - web solutions

[hidden email]
[phone]

On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 3:46 PM, Pierre Smits <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hi Adrian,
>
> See my comments inline.
>
> Regards,
>
> Pierre Smits
>
> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> Services and Retail & Trade
> http://www.orrtiz.com
>
> On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 3:03 PM, Adrian Stern <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Pierre
> >
> > I'm in the process of reading this book. So far i'm half way trough and
> it
> > did clarify most of my configuration issues.
> > The main issue lies in the internal workings of ofbiz which are not
> > documented too well.
> >
> > Also there is a bit of a language barriere, which may be the main reason
> > for me asking back.
> >
> > *For example:*
> > Total VAT applicable turnover: 100
> > Total VAT collected: 8
> > Total VAT due (100 + 8) x 6%  = 6.42
> >
> > I know what those names mean and what the values represent. But i'm not
> > entierly sure if i have access (do they exist in ofbiz?) to those values
> to
> > work with. As far as i know there is only one value available which would
> > be "Total VAT collected" - i believe this represents the GlAccount where
> > the VAT billed to the customer is posted to.(Tax Authority GlAccount)
> > As to the other one, "Total VAT applicable turnover" - where would this
> be
> > stored? In what way would i access it?
> >
>
> This would be equivalent to the gl account that you use to register your
> sales to.
>
>
> >
> > *Second:*
> >
> > Since there is more than one SSS rate involved i cannot post all the VAT
> > collected to the same account, because i have to calculate the "Total VAT
> > due" for only certain transactions.
> > For Example:
> >
> >    - *rateA*: Beer without alcohol: SSS is 0.1
> >    - *rateB*: Beer with alcohol: SSS is 3.7
> >
> > Thats the Reason for my previous example with the Accounts per SSS rate:
> >
> >    - Total VAT applicable turnover *rateA*: 100
> >    - Total VAT collected *rateA*: 8
> >    - Total VAT due *rateA* (100+8) x 0.1% = x.zy
> >    - -------------------------------------------------------------------
> >    - Total VAT applicable turnover *rateB*: 50
> >    - Total VAT collected *rateB*: 2.5
> >    - Total VAT due *rateB* (100+2.5) x 3.7% = x.zy
> >
> > Thus my idea of creating one Tax-Account per SSS rate to which all "VAT
> > collected" will be postet in regards to the SSS rate they need to be
> > further processed with.
> >
>
> It seems to me that your predicament is equivalent to the following JIRA
> issue: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5403
>
>
> >
> > For now i'm seeking a viable approach to later implemet the SSS Tax. If i
> > had those three accounts per SSS rate: *applicable turnover*,
> *collected*,
> > *due* i could calculate *due* by turnover and collected and as you
> > mentioned reset those two accounts to 0 while keeping *due* until the end
> > of the period.
> >
> > Have a look at balance and income statement generated by your OFBiz
> implementation.
>
>
>
> >
> > Freundliche Grüsse
> >
> > Adrian Stern
> > unchained - web solutions
> >
> > [hidden email]
> > [phone]
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 9:07 AM, Pierre Smits <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> >
>

[Pierre Smits]

Hi Adrian,

Having multiple (sub) tax authorities with each one product category and
percentage, and each pointing to a specific GL account is a work-around.

Regards,

Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com

On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 4:41 PM, Adrian Stern <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Ok. Now i understand.
>
> Overall it is a *yes* to the multi-account approach in the exact way
> described above, but additionally with multiple debit-accounts also per SSS
> rate. With this it is easy to calculate.
> An existing drawback is the JIRA issue you mentioned, because due to that
> it is not possible to post to multiple Tax-Accounts out of a single
> Tax-Authority. Like the description mentions, its necessary to be able to
> post to a tax-Account by Product Category.
>
> Maybe it is possible to simply create multiple tax-Authorities per SSS-Rate
> (nested ones) as a workaround?
>
> Freundliche Grüsse
>
> Adrian Stern
> unchained - web solutions
>
> [hidden email]
> [phone]
>
> On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 3:46 PM, Pierre Smits <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Adrian,
> >
> > See my comments inline.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Pierre Smits
> >
> > *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> > Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> > Based Manufacturing, Professional
> > Services and Retail & Trade
> > http://www.orrtiz.com
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 3:03 PM, Adrian Stern <[hidden email]
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Pierre
> > >
> > > I'm in the process of reading this book. So far i'm half way trough and
> > it
> > > did clarify most of my configuration issues.
> > > The main issue lies in the internal workings of ofbiz which are not
> > > documented too well.
> > >
> > > Also there is a bit of a language barriere, which may be the main
> reason
> > > for me asking back.
> > >
> > > *For example:*
> > > Total VAT applicable turnover: 100
> > > Total VAT collected: 8
> > > Total VAT due (100 + 8) x 6%  = 6.42
> > >
> > > I know what those names mean and what the values represent. But i'm not
> > > entierly sure if i have access (do they exist in ofbiz?) to those
> values
> > to
> > > work with. As far as i know there is only one value available which
> would
> > > be "Total VAT collected" - i believe this represents the GlAccount
> where
> > > the VAT billed to the customer is posted to.(Tax Authority GlAccount)
> > > As to the other one, "Total VAT applicable turnover" - where would this
> > be
> > > stored? In what way would i access it?
> > >
> >
> > This would be equivalent to the gl account that you use to register your
> > sales to.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > *Second:*
> > >
> > > Since there is more than one SSS rate involved i cannot post all the
> VAT
> > > collected to the same account, because i have to calculate the "Total
> VAT
> > > due" for only certain transactions.
> > > For Example:
> > >
> > >    - *rateA*: Beer without alcohol: SSS is 0.1
> > >    - *rateB*: Beer with alcohol: SSS is 3.7
> > >
> > > Thats the Reason for my previous example with the Accounts per SSS
> rate:
> > >
> > >    - Total VAT applicable turnover *rateA*: 100
> > >    - Total VAT collected *rateA*: 8
> > >    - Total VAT due *rateA* (100+8) x 0.1% = x.zy
> > >    -
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >    - Total VAT applicable turnover *rateB*: 50
> > >    - Total VAT collected *rateB*: 2.5
> > >    - Total VAT due *rateB* (100+2.5) x 3.7% = x.zy
> > >
> > > Thus my idea of creating one Tax-Account per SSS rate to which all "VAT
> > > collected" will be postet in regards to the SSS rate they need to be
> > > further processed with.
> > >
> >
> > It seems to me that your predicament is equivalent to the following JIRA
> > issue: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5403
> >
> >
> > >
> > > For now i'm seeking a viable approach to later implemet the SSS Tax.
> If i
> > > had those three accounts per SSS rate: *applicable turnover*,
> > *collected*,
> > > *due* i could calculate *due* by turnover and collected and as you
> > > mentioned reset those two accounts to 0 while keeping *due* until the
> end
> > > of the period.
> > >
> > > Have a look at balance and income statement generated by your OFBiz
> > implementation.
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Freundliche Grüsse
> > >
> > > Adrian Stern
> > > unchained - web solutions
> > >
> > > [hidden email]
> > > [phone]
> > >
> > > On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 9:07 AM, Pierre Smits <[hidden email]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> >
>