LoadDefault vs LoadDemo was [Re: Should we do binary releases?]

[Jacques Le Roux]

[PS to ALL: please forget the previous same message in the old thread when answering. I again forgot to create a new thread with a new brand message
and not a copy from the old thread. Also when answering you can remove "was [Re: Should we do binary releases?]" in the subject, thanks!]

Hi Pierre,

You did not get a clear answer about LoadDefault here. Actually I think you got at least one from Taher elsewhere but I miss it.

Anyway, I answer only to this part ("LoadDefault vs LoadDemo") inline below.

Le 26/08/2016 à 18:27, Pierre Smits a écrit :
> [snip]
> Why should we consider loading the demo dataset as ready to run OOTB.
> If adopters want to experience how OFBiz is with demo data, we can redirect
> them to our demo sites.

Or locally they would use a new loadDemo (currently named loadDefault)

> Ready OOTB consists of making everything needed available to the user to
> start OFBiz and use as defined, but nothing more. That doesn't mean
> including the demo dataset. The seed and seed-initial datasets are enough
> for that.

We would have the new LoadDefault doing, as documented in build.gradle:

#### load ext data
Load seed, seed-initial and ext data; meant for manual/generic
testing, development, or going into production with a derived
system based on stock OFBiz where the ext data basically
replaces the demo data
`gradlew "ofbiz --load-data readers=seed,seed-initial,ext"`

So users could possibly and *initially* add their ext data. This new LoadDefault target should be used *once*, because of *seed-initial*

The old LoadDefault would be renamed LoadDemo

Note that when using this new LoadDefault the ecommerce application would not work OOTB (no product store)

For the backend I think a default could be to get into the setup webapp, but this component would need more work, and more work is needed anyway
For instance an admin (or a prividleged user) is necessary to get into the backend (AFAIK only the system user created with seed data but w/o
password).  It could be created within a start task as suggest below. This start task eventually calling the ofbiz task.

> Creating the 1-statement experience(./ofbiz start) entails that the command
> does everything needed (check build, and build if ofbiz.jar is not
> available, load data and start) so that the adopter can go to the provided
> localhost url in his browser and see that it working and start using it.

Most new users would indeed appreciate that but would also feel frustrated compared to what is currently recommended at
http://ofbiz.apache.org/download.html
So we would need to simply but clearly explain the 2 options there (and in readme, etc.)

> And with respect to configuration thereafter: the project has done
> everything to make that experience as pleasant/least complex as possible:
> it provides an excellent set of functions to upload configuration data
> files and/or single record adjustment in the webtools component. Every
> component (even accounting) consist of functions to work with them as
> intended.
>
> Comparing OFBiz to HTTPD or Tomcat is not like comparing apples and oranges:
> Run their defaults and what you get is the following out of the box:
>
>     - Apache HTTPD:
> https://assets.digitalocean.com/articles/lamp_1404/default_apache.png
>     - Apache Tomcat:
> https://assets.digitalocean.com/articles/tomcat8_1604/splashscreen.png
>
> With those products also, more needs to be done afterwards to have them
> working as desired. Same thing there.

OFBiz is not the same than HTTPD or TOMCAT, it's (at least) one layer higher and that's what the demo data provide.
  I though agree the demo data does not provide a sufficient OOTB experience when you start working toward production, so loadDefault seems misnamed

Jacques
 

[Pierre Smits]

Jacques,

The community has gone through tremendous efforts to make the experience of
loading and importing adopter specific data as pleasant as possible. See
all the functions in the webtools component under *xmldsdump* (what does
that mean?): https://ofbiz-vm2.apache.org:8443/webtools/control/xmldsdump

Let us leverage that in our communications. In stead of having the user go
through cryptic gradle commands (in readme files and other - and
potentially conflicting - documentation in website and wiki) in order to
have a easy production setup implemented.

Best regards,

Pierre Smits

ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>
OFBiz based solutions & services

OFBiz Extensions Marketplace
http://oem.ofbizci.net/oci-2/

On Mon, Nov 21, 2016 at 12:46 PM, Jacques Le Roux <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> [PS to ALL: please forget the previous same message in the old thread when
> answering. I again forgot to create a new thread with a new brand message
> and not a copy from the old thread. Also when answering you can remove "was
> [Re: Should we do binary releases?]" in the subject, thanks!]
>
>
> Hi Pierre,
>
> You did not get a clear answer about LoadDefault here. Actually I think
> you got at least one from Taher elsewhere but I miss it.
>
> Anyway, I answer only to this part ("LoadDefault vs LoadDemo") inline
> below.
>
> Le 26/08/2016 à 18:27, Pierre Smits a écrit :
>
>> [snip]
>> Why should we consider loading the demo dataset as ready to run OOTB.
>> If adopters want to experience how OFBiz is with demo data, we can
>> redirect
>> them to our demo sites.
>>
>
> Or locally they would use a new loadDemo (currently named loadDefault)
>
> Ready OOTB consists of making everything needed available to the user to
>> start OFBiz and use as defined, but nothing more. That doesn't mean
>> including the demo dataset. The seed and seed-initial datasets are enough
>> for that.
>>
>
> We would have the new LoadDefault doing, as documented in build.gradle:
>
> #### load ext data
> Load seed, seed-initial and ext data; meant for manual/generic
> testing, development, or going into production with a derived
> system based on stock OFBiz where the ext data basically
> replaces the demo data
> `gradlew "ofbiz --load-data readers=seed,seed-initial,ext"`
>
> So users could possibly and *initially* add their ext data. This new
> LoadDefault target should be used *once*, because of *seed-initial*
>
> The old LoadDefault would be renamed LoadDemo
>
> Note that when using this new LoadDefault the ecommerce application would
> not work OOTB (no product store)
>
> For the backend I think a default could be to get into the setup webapp,
> but this component would need more work, and more work is needed anyway
> For instance an admin (or a prividleged user) is necessary to get into the
> backend (AFAIK only the system user created with seed data but w/o
> password).  It could be created within a start task as suggest below. This
> start task eventually calling the ofbiz task.
>
> Creating the 1-statement experience(./ofbiz start) entails that the command
>> does everything needed (check build, and build if ofbiz.jar is not
>> available, load data and start) so that the adopter can go to the provided
>> localhost url in his browser and see that it working and start using it.
>>
>
> Most new users would indeed appreciate that but would also feel frustrated
> compared to what is currently recommended at
> http://ofbiz.apache.org/download.html
> So we would need to simply but clearly explain the 2 options there (and in
> readme, etc.)
>
> And with respect to configuration thereafter: the project has done
>> everything to make that experience as pleasant/least complex as possible:
>> it provides an excellent set of functions to upload configuration data
>> files and/or single record adjustment in the webtools component. Every
>> component (even accounting) consist of functions to work with them as
>> intended.
>>
>> Comparing OFBiz to HTTPD or Tomcat is not like comparing apples and
>> oranges:
>> Run their defaults and what you get is the following out of the box:
>>
>>     - Apache HTTPD:
>> https://assets.digitalocean.com/articles/lamp_1404/default_apache.png
>>     - Apache Tomcat:
>> https://assets.digitalocean.com/articles/tomcat8_1604/splashscreen.png
>>
>> With those products also, more needs to be done afterwards to have them
>> working as desired. Same thing there.
>>
>
> OFBiz is not the same than HTTPD or TOMCAT, it's (at least) one layer
> higher and that's what the demo data provide.
>  I though agree the demo data does not provide a sufficient OOTB
> experience when you start working toward production, so loadDefault seems
> misnamed
>
> Jacques
>
>