OFBiz in Canada?
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Hello all!
Just wondering if some of the readers here were using OFBiz in Canada, or even better, in Quebec! My company is considering the use of OFBiz, and as such I'm in charge of researching on the matter. We would like to hear from your experience! Thank you all. :) Olivier Tremblay |
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Emforium(http://www.allinsoftware.com/), out of Waterloo Ontario is.
Good platform but it has a learning curve. A lot depends on how you want to use it. Our usage of ofbiz is very broad and deep. Not sure if you are thinking o using only ecommerce side of it or more or less. Harmeet ----- Original Message ----- From: "Olivier Tremblay" <[hidden email]> To: "OFBiz Newsletter" <[hidden email]> Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 10:03:27 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: OFBiz in Canada? Hello all! Just wondering if some of the readers here were using OFBiz in Canada, or even better, in Quebec! My company is considering the use of OFBiz, and as such I'm in charge of researching on the matter. We would like to hear from your experience! Thank you all. :) Olivier Tremblay |
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Actually, we're not sure how deep we want to use it, but we need it
for accounting, project management, and pretty much the whole business flow (which is, if I'm not mistaken, precisely the point of OFBiz). Le 2009-11-11 à 10:31, Harmeet Bedi a écrit : > Emforium(http://www.allinsoftware.com/), out of Waterloo Ontario is. > Good platform but it has a learning curve. A lot depends on how you > want to use it. Our usage of ofbiz is very broad and deep. Not sure > if you are thinking o using only ecommerce side of it or more or less. > > Harmeet > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Olivier Tremblay" <[hidden email]> > To: "OFBiz Newsletter" <[hidden email]> > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 10:03:27 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada > Eastern > Subject: OFBiz in Canada? > > Hello all! > > Just wondering if some of the readers here were using OFBiz in Canada, > or even better, in Quebec! My company is considering the use of OFBiz, > and as such I'm in charge of researching on the matter. We would like > to hear from your experience! > > Thank you all. :) > > Olivier Tremblay |
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My experience:
Ecommerce tends to be the main strength and focus of ofbiz. Ofbiz accounting is the most immature area. I gave up on ofbiz accounting and am now looking at OpenBravo / Adempiere. Ofbiz is a fantastic enterprise application development framework if you want to create your own apps. Ofbiz needs a lot of customization to fit to an individual business. There is very little documentation on the business processes within ofbiz so you will have to spend a lot of time working things out or pay for help. Olivier Tremblay wrote: > Actually, we're not sure how deep we want to use it, but we need it > for accounting, project management, and pretty much the whole business > flow (which is, if I'm not mistaken, precisely the point of OFBiz). > > Le 2009-11-11 à 10:31, Harmeet Bedi a écrit : > >> Emforium(http://www.allinsoftware.com/), out of Waterloo Ontario is. >> Good platform but it has a learning curve. A lot depends on how you >> want to use it. Our usage of ofbiz is very broad and deep. Not sure >> if you are thinking o using only ecommerce side of it or more or less. >> >> Harmeet >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Olivier Tremblay" <[hidden email]> >> To: "OFBiz Newsletter" <[hidden email]> >> Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 10:03:27 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada >> Eastern >> Subject: OFBiz in Canada? >> >> Hello all! >> >> Just wondering if some of the readers here were using OFBiz in Canada, >> or even better, in Quebec! My company is considering the use of OFBiz, >> and as such I'm in charge of researching on the matter. We would like >> to hear from your experience! >> >> Thank you all. :) >> >> Olivier Tremblay > |
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I'm not an accountant at all, I did explore the features but it looked
pretty good. Which features seemed lacking to you most? Le 2009-11-11 à 11:04, Christopher Snow a écrit : > My experience: > > Ecommerce tends to be the main strength and focus of ofbiz. > > Ofbiz accounting is the most immature area. I gave up on ofbiz > accounting and am now looking at OpenBravo / Adempiere. > > Ofbiz is a fantastic enterprise application development framework if > you want to create your own apps. > > Ofbiz needs a lot of customization to fit to an individual > business. There is very little documentation on the business > processes within ofbiz so you will have to spend a lot of time > working things out or pay for help. > > > > Olivier Tremblay wrote: >> Actually, we're not sure how deep we want to use it, but we need it >> for accounting, project management, and pretty much the whole >> business flow (which is, if I'm not mistaken, precisely the point >> of OFBiz). >> >> Le 2009-11-11 à 10:31, Harmeet Bedi a écrit : >> >>> Emforium(http://www.allinsoftware.com/), out of Waterloo Ontario is. >>> Good platform but it has a learning curve. A lot depends on how >>> you want to use it. Our usage of ofbiz is very broad and deep. Not >>> sure if you are thinking o using only ecommerce side of it or more >>> or less. >>> >>> Harmeet >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Olivier Tremblay" <[hidden email]> >>> To: "OFBiz Newsletter" <[hidden email]> >>> Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 10:03:27 AM GMT -05:00 US/ >>> Canada Eastern >>> Subject: OFBiz in Canada? >>> >>> Hello all! >>> >>> Just wondering if some of the readers here were using OFBiz in >>> Canada, >>> or even better, in Quebec! My company is considering the use of >>> OFBiz, >>> and as such I'm in charge of researching on the matter. We would >>> like >>> to hear from your experience! >>> >>> Thank you all. :) >>> >>> Olivier Tremblay >> > |
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The main problem I had with accounting is that for most of the
accounting features you had to use trunk, but trunk is unstable which is a problem when you are trying to learning something new. There was little documentation on the accounting component, and when something doesn't work you don't know if you are doing something wrong, if it's a bug, or if it's a feature. Olivier Tremblay wrote: > I'm not an accountant at all, I did explore the features but it looked > pretty good. Which features seemed lacking to you most? > > Le 2009-11-11 à 11:04, Christopher Snow a écrit : > >> My experience: >> >> Ecommerce tends to be the main strength and focus of ofbiz. >> >> Ofbiz accounting is the most immature area. I gave up on ofbiz >> accounting and am now looking at OpenBravo / Adempiere. >> >> Ofbiz is a fantastic enterprise application development framework if >> you want to create your own apps. >> >> Ofbiz needs a lot of customization to fit to an individual business. >> There is very little documentation on the business processes within >> ofbiz so you will have to spend a lot of time working things out or >> pay for help. >> >> >> >> Olivier Tremblay wrote: >>> Actually, we're not sure how deep we want to use it, but we need it >>> for accounting, project management, and pretty much the whole >>> business flow (which is, if I'm not mistaken, precisely the point of >>> OFBiz). >>> >>> Le 2009-11-11 à 10:31, Harmeet Bedi a écrit : >>> >>>> Emforium(http://www.allinsoftware.com/), out of Waterloo Ontario is. >>>> Good platform but it has a learning curve. A lot depends on how you >>>> want to use it. Our usage of ofbiz is very broad and deep. Not sure >>>> if you are thinking o using only ecommerce side of it or more or less. >>>> >>>> Harmeet >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Olivier Tremblay" <[hidden email]> >>>> To: "OFBiz Newsletter" <[hidden email]> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 10:03:27 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada >>>> Eastern >>>> Subject: OFBiz in Canada? >>>> >>>> Hello all! >>>> >>>> Just wondering if some of the readers here were using OFBiz in Canada, >>>> or even better, in Quebec! My company is considering the use of OFBiz, >>>> and as such I'm in charge of researching on the matter. We would like >>>> to hear from your experience! >>>> >>>> Thank you all. :) >>>> >>>> Olivier Tremblay >>> >> > |
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I wonder what will be decided. I need to be able to import from
Quickbooks too, so importation is a feature I'm looking for too. Hm. So many aspects to consider in such an enormous system. :P Le 2009-11-11 à 11:23, Christopher Snow a écrit : > The main problem I had with accounting is that for most of the > accounting features you had to use trunk, but trunk is unstable > which is a problem when you are trying to learning something new. > There was little documentation on the accounting component, and > when something doesn't work you don't know if you are doing > something wrong, if it's a bug, or if it's a feature. > > Olivier Tremblay wrote: >> I'm not an accountant at all, I did explore the features but it >> looked pretty good. Which features seemed lacking to you most? >> >> Le 2009-11-11 à 11:04, Christopher Snow a écrit : >> >>> My experience: >>> >>> Ecommerce tends to be the main strength and focus of ofbiz. >>> >>> Ofbiz accounting is the most immature area. I gave up on ofbiz >>> accounting and am now looking at OpenBravo / Adempiere. >>> >>> Ofbiz is a fantastic enterprise application development framework >>> if you want to create your own apps. >>> >>> Ofbiz needs a lot of customization to fit to an individual >>> business. There is very little documentation on the business >>> processes within ofbiz so you will have to spend a lot of time >>> working things out or pay for help. >>> >>> >>> >>> Olivier Tremblay wrote: >>>> Actually, we're not sure how deep we want to use it, but we need >>>> it for accounting, project management, and pretty much the whole >>>> business flow (which is, if I'm not mistaken, precisely the point >>>> of OFBiz). >>>> >>>> Le 2009-11-11 à 10:31, Harmeet Bedi a écrit : >>>> >>>>> Emforium(http://www.allinsoftware.com/), out of Waterloo Ontario >>>>> is. >>>>> Good platform but it has a learning curve. A lot depends on how >>>>> you want to use it. Our usage of ofbiz is very broad and deep. >>>>> Not sure if you are thinking o using only ecommerce side of it >>>>> or more or less. >>>>> >>>>> Harmeet >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Olivier Tremblay" <[hidden email]> >>>>> To: "OFBiz Newsletter" <[hidden email]> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 10:03:27 AM GMT -05:00 US/ >>>>> Canada Eastern >>>>> Subject: OFBiz in Canada? >>>>> >>>>> Hello all! >>>>> >>>>> Just wondering if some of the readers here were using OFBiz in >>>>> Canada, >>>>> or even better, in Quebec! My company is considering the use of >>>>> OFBiz, >>>>> and as such I'm in charge of researching on the matter. We would >>>>> like >>>>> to hear from your experience! >>>>> >>>>> Thank you all. :) >>>>> >>>>> Olivier Tremblay >>>> >>> >> > |
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Hello Christopher:
I'm wondering, since I've never had to use the OFBiz accounting features to run a business, if you have analyzed the ROI on learning and supporting another platform and software application such as OpenBravo vs. dealing with the gaps in OFBiz accounting. Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Regards, Ruth ---------------------------------------------------- [hidden email] http://www.myofbiz.com Olivier Tremblay wrote: > I wonder what will be decided. I need to be able to import from > Quickbooks too, so importation is a feature I'm looking for too. Hm. > So many aspects to consider in such an enormous system. :P > > Le 2009-11-11 à 11:23, Christopher Snow a écrit : > >> The main problem I had with accounting is that for most of the >> accounting features you had to use trunk, but trunk is unstable which >> is a problem when you are trying to learning something new. There >> was little documentation on the accounting component, and when >> something doesn't work you don't know if you are doing something >> wrong, if it's a bug, or if it's a feature. >> >> Olivier Tremblay wrote: >>> I'm not an accountant at all, I did explore the features but it >>> looked pretty good. Which features seemed lacking to you most? >>> >>> Le 2009-11-11 à 11:04, Christopher Snow a écrit : >>> >>>> My experience: >>>> >>>> Ecommerce tends to be the main strength and focus of ofbiz. >>>> >>>> Ofbiz accounting is the most immature area. I gave up on ofbiz >>>> accounting and am now looking at OpenBravo / Adempiere. >>>> >>>> Ofbiz is a fantastic enterprise application development framework >>>> if you want to create your own apps. >>>> >>>> Ofbiz needs a lot of customization to fit to an individual >>>> business. There is very little documentation on the business >>>> processes within ofbiz so you will have to spend a lot of time >>>> working things out or pay for help. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Olivier Tremblay wrote: >>>>> Actually, we're not sure how deep we want to use it, but we need >>>>> it for accounting, project management, and pretty much the whole >>>>> business flow (which is, if I'm not mistaken, precisely the point >>>>> of OFBiz). >>>>> >>>>> Le 2009-11-11 à 10:31, Harmeet Bedi a écrit : >>>>> >>>>>> Emforium(http://www.allinsoftware.com/), out of Waterloo Ontario is. >>>>>> Good platform but it has a learning curve. A lot depends on how >>>>>> you want to use it. Our usage of ofbiz is very broad and deep. >>>>>> Not sure if you are thinking o using only ecommerce side of it or >>>>>> more or less. >>>>>> >>>>>> Harmeet >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Olivier Tremblay" <[hidden email]> >>>>>> To: "OFBiz Newsletter" <[hidden email]> >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 10:03:27 AM GMT -05:00 >>>>>> US/Canada Eastern >>>>>> Subject: OFBiz in Canada? >>>>>> >>>>>> Hello all! >>>>>> >>>>>> Just wondering if some of the readers here were using OFBiz in >>>>>> Canada, >>>>>> or even better, in Quebec! My company is considering the use of >>>>>> OFBiz, >>>>>> and as such I'm in charge of researching on the matter. We would >>>>>> like >>>>>> to hear from your experience! >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you all. :) >>>>>> >>>>>> Olivier Tremblay >>>>> >>>> >>> >> > > |
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Hi Ruth,
I spend a lot of time learning. I am learning new systems all the time and to date I have implemented a multitude of opensource solutions . I enjoy learning, I enjoy new technologies. The knowledge I need I normally get from reading books. I have found that it is just not cost effective (i.e. time effective) to try to learn from trial and error, reading wikis or studying source code. I normally do not attend training courses because I can't afford the lost consulting time. Ebooks are great, you can print out a chapter, stick it in your back pocket and read it waiting for a train. In my mind, the best thing that has made ofbiz accessible to me are your books and the book from Jonathon Wong. Unfortunately these resources cover maybe 10% of the total knowledge needed to implement ofbiz. When looking at returns, as a contractor, I usually notice what skills the UK job boards are asking for. I have seen a few jobs recently asking for adempiere and compiere skills. I have not seen many jobs requiring ofbiz skills, but I do have a number of small companies that want bespoke enterprise application development that suits the ofbiz framework. As for investment cost: Adempiere functional implementation: ebook cost* - £20. Time to read - 40 hours. *http://www.packtpub.com/adempiere-3-4-erp-solutions/book Ofbiz functional implementation: training cost $$$$, additional time to learn from wiki, source code etc - 300 hours (this is a wild guess). Cheers, Chris Ruth Hoffman wrote: > Hello Christopher: > I'm wondering, since I've never had to use the OFBiz accounting > features to run a business, if you have analyzed the ROI on learning > and supporting another platform and software application such as > OpenBravo vs. dealing with the gaps in OFBiz accounting. > Any insight would be greatly appreciated. > Regards, > Ruth > ---------------------------------------------------- > [hidden email] > http://www.myofbiz.com > > > > > > Olivier Tremblay wrote: >> I wonder what will be decided. I need to be able to import from >> Quickbooks too, so importation is a feature I'm looking for too. Hm. >> So many aspects to consider in such an enormous system. :P >> >> Le 2009-11-11 à 11:23, Christopher Snow a écrit : >> >>> The main problem I had with accounting is that for most of the >>> accounting features you had to use trunk, but trunk is unstable >>> which is a problem when you are trying to learning something new. >>> There was little documentation on the accounting component, and >>> when something doesn't work you don't know if you are doing >>> something wrong, if it's a bug, or if it's a feature. >>> >>> Olivier Tremblay wrote: >>>> I'm not an accountant at all, I did explore the features but it >>>> looked pretty good. Which features seemed lacking to you most? >>>> >>>> Le 2009-11-11 à 11:04, Christopher Snow a écrit : >>>> >>>>> My experience: >>>>> >>>>> Ecommerce tends to be the main strength and focus of ofbiz. >>>>> >>>>> Ofbiz accounting is the most immature area. I gave up on ofbiz >>>>> accounting and am now looking at OpenBravo / Adempiere. >>>>> >>>>> Ofbiz is a fantastic enterprise application development framework >>>>> if you want to create your own apps. >>>>> >>>>> Ofbiz needs a lot of customization to fit to an individual >>>>> business. There is very little documentation on the business >>>>> processes within ofbiz so you will have to spend a lot of time >>>>> working things out or pay for help. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Olivier Tremblay wrote: >>>>>> Actually, we're not sure how deep we want to use it, but we need >>>>>> it for accounting, project management, and pretty much the whole >>>>>> business flow (which is, if I'm not mistaken, precisely the point >>>>>> of OFBiz). >>>>>> >>>>>> Le 2009-11-11 à 10:31, Harmeet Bedi a écrit : >>>>>> >>>>>>> Emforium(http://www.allinsoftware.com/), out of Waterloo Ontario >>>>>>> is. >>>>>>> Good platform but it has a learning curve. A lot depends on how >>>>>>> you want to use it. Our usage of ofbiz is very broad and deep. >>>>>>> Not sure if you are thinking o using only ecommerce side of it >>>>>>> or more or less. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Harmeet >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Olivier Tremblay" <[hidden email]> >>>>>>> To: "OFBiz Newsletter" <[hidden email]> >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 10:03:27 AM GMT -05:00 >>>>>>> US/Canada Eastern >>>>>>> Subject: OFBiz in Canada? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello all! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Just wondering if some of the readers here were using OFBiz in >>>>>>> Canada, >>>>>>> or even better, in Quebec! My company is considering the use of >>>>>>> OFBiz, >>>>>>> and as such I'm in charge of researching on the matter. We would >>>>>>> like >>>>>>> to hear from your experience! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you all. :) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Olivier Tremblay >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >> >> |
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Hi Chris:
Thanks for the info and the endorsement. One question: Do you consider long term operational costs (support and maintenance) when you bid a job? I'm trying to understand if there is any value in a single OFBiz solution vs. supporting multiple applications/databases. Or is that something that your client's don't really care about? Do you have any thoughts on that? re: Job boards. It is true that OFBiz doesn't seem to get much "air time". Ok, truth be told - here in the US - I don't think I've ever seen a job requirement for OFBiz. I certainly would be the first to respond to opportunities for OFBiz integrator/developers if I ever saw any. Writing books does not pay very well :-( I think the only thing that will cure this is time. The more new adopters we get, the more likely OFBiz will be brought into the enterprise and become mainstream. And then the secret will be out and everyone will be salivating all over it - just like the do with Spring and Hibernate. Regards, Ruth Christopher Snow wrote: > Hi Ruth, > > I spend a lot of time learning. I am learning new systems all the > time and to date I have implemented a multitude of opensource > solutions . I enjoy learning, I enjoy new technologies. The > knowledge I need I normally get from reading books. I have found that > it is just not cost effective (i.e. time effective) to try to learn > from trial and error, reading wikis or studying source code. I > normally do not attend training courses because I can't afford the > lost consulting time. Ebooks are great, you can print out a chapter, > stick it in your back pocket and read it waiting for a train. > > In my mind, the best thing that has made ofbiz accessible to me are > your books and the book from Jonathon Wong. Unfortunately these > resources cover maybe 10% of the total knowledge needed to implement > ofbiz. > > When looking at returns, as a contractor, I usually notice what skills > the UK job boards are asking for. I have seen a few jobs recently > asking for adempiere and compiere skills. I have not seen many jobs > requiring ofbiz skills, but I do have a number of small companies that > want bespoke enterprise application development that suits the ofbiz > framework. > > As for investment cost: > > Adempiere functional implementation: ebook cost* - £20. Time to read > - 40 hours. > *http://www.packtpub.com/adempiere-3-4-erp-solutions/book > > Ofbiz functional implementation: training cost $$$$, additional time > to learn from wiki, source code etc - 300 hours (this is a wild guess). > > Cheers, > > Chris > > > Ruth Hoffman wrote: >> Hello Christopher: >> I'm wondering, since I've never had to use the OFBiz accounting >> features to run a business, if you have analyzed the ROI on learning >> and supporting another platform and software application such as >> OpenBravo vs. dealing with the gaps in OFBiz accounting. >> Any insight would be greatly appreciated. >> Regards, >> Ruth >> ---------------------------------------------------- >> [hidden email] >> http://www.myofbiz.com >> >> >> >> >> >> Olivier Tremblay wrote: >>> I wonder what will be decided. I need to be able to import from >>> Quickbooks too, so importation is a feature I'm looking for too. Hm. >>> So many aspects to consider in such an enormous system. :P >>> >>> Le 2009-11-11 à 11:23, Christopher Snow a écrit : >>> >>>> The main problem I had with accounting is that for most of the >>>> accounting features you had to use trunk, but trunk is unstable >>>> which is a problem when you are trying to learning something new. >>>> There was little documentation on the accounting component, and >>>> when something doesn't work you don't know if you are doing >>>> something wrong, if it's a bug, or if it's a feature. >>>> >>>> Olivier Tremblay wrote: >>>>> I'm not an accountant at all, I did explore the features but it >>>>> looked pretty good. Which features seemed lacking to you most? >>>>> >>>>> Le 2009-11-11 à 11:04, Christopher Snow a écrit : >>>>> >>>>>> My experience: >>>>>> >>>>>> Ecommerce tends to be the main strength and focus of ofbiz. >>>>>> >>>>>> Ofbiz accounting is the most immature area. I gave up on ofbiz >>>>>> accounting and am now looking at OpenBravo / Adempiere. >>>>>> >>>>>> Ofbiz is a fantastic enterprise application development framework >>>>>> if you want to create your own apps. >>>>>> >>>>>> Ofbiz needs a lot of customization to fit to an individual >>>>>> business. There is very little documentation on the business >>>>>> processes within ofbiz so you will have to spend a lot of time >>>>>> working things out or pay for help. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Olivier Tremblay wrote: >>>>>>> Actually, we're not sure how deep we want to use it, but we need >>>>>>> it for accounting, project management, and pretty much the whole >>>>>>> business flow (which is, if I'm not mistaken, precisely the >>>>>>> point of OFBiz). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Le 2009-11-11 à 10:31, Harmeet Bedi a écrit : >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Emforium(http://www.allinsoftware.com/), out of Waterloo >>>>>>>> Ontario is. >>>>>>>> Good platform but it has a learning curve. A lot depends on how >>>>>>>> you want to use it. Our usage of ofbiz is very broad and deep. >>>>>>>> Not sure if you are thinking o using only ecommerce side of it >>>>>>>> or more or less. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Harmeet >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Olivier Tremblay" <[hidden email]> >>>>>>>> To: "OFBiz Newsletter" <[hidden email]> >>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 10:03:27 AM GMT -05:00 >>>>>>>> US/Canada Eastern >>>>>>>> Subject: OFBiz in Canada? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello all! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Just wondering if some of the readers here were using OFBiz in >>>>>>>> Canada, >>>>>>>> or even better, in Quebec! My company is considering the use of >>>>>>>> OFBiz, >>>>>>>> and as such I'm in charge of researching on the matter. We >>>>>>>> would like >>>>>>>> to hear from your experience! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thank you all. :) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Olivier Tremblay >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> > > |
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Hi Ruth,
I think there are two main issues which slow the adoption of ofbiz: 1 - lack of quality documentation 2 - the community focus The problem with the lack of quality documentation is well known and needs no further discusssion. In my experience, there is a problem with the ofbiz community focus. Communities such as those surrounding ubuntu and adempiere seem to be focused on making the product the best it can possibly be. Ofbiz community seems to be focused on making ofbiz generate as much consulting revenue as possible and not on making ofbiz a great shrink wrapped product. For example, end users having to use svn and patches so to keep their systems up to date is crazy. Also, end users typically want stability, yet the advice on the mailing lists is to Ofbiz to use trunk. I will say though that help on the mailing lists is fantastic (even if the same questions are answered over-and-over again due to the lack of documentation). I think that until the above issues are resolved, adoption of this fantastic framework will be slow. Cheers, Chris Ruth Hoffman wrote: > Hi Chris: > Thanks for the info and the endorsement. > > One question: Do you consider long term operational costs (support and > maintenance) when you bid a job? I'm trying to understand if there is > any value in a single OFBiz solution vs. supporting multiple > applications/databases. Or is that something that your client's don't > really care about? Do you have any thoughts on that? > > re: Job boards. It is true that OFBiz doesn't seem to get much "air > time". Ok, truth be told - here in the US - I don't think I've ever > seen a job requirement for OFBiz. I certainly would be the first to > respond to opportunities for OFBiz integrator/developers if I ever saw > any. Writing books does not pay very well :-( I think the only thing > that will cure this is time. The more new adopters we get, the more > likely OFBiz will be brought into the enterprise and become > mainstream. And then the secret will be out and everyone will be > salivating all over it - just like the do with Spring and Hibernate. > > Regards, > Ruth > > Christopher Snow wrote: >> Hi Ruth, >> >> I spend a lot of time learning. I am learning new systems all the >> time and to date I have implemented a multitude of opensource >> solutions . I enjoy learning, I enjoy new technologies. The >> knowledge I need I normally get from reading books. I have found >> that it is just not cost effective (i.e. time effective) to try to >> learn from trial and error, reading wikis or studying source code. I >> normally do not attend training courses because I can't afford the >> lost consulting time. Ebooks are great, you can print out a chapter, >> stick it in your back pocket and read it waiting for a train. >> >> In my mind, the best thing that has made ofbiz accessible to me are >> your books and the book from Jonathon Wong. Unfortunately these >> resources cover maybe 10% of the total knowledge needed to implement >> ofbiz. >> >> When looking at returns, as a contractor, I usually notice what >> skills the UK job boards are asking for. I have seen a few jobs >> recently asking for adempiere and compiere skills. I have not seen >> many jobs requiring ofbiz skills, but I do have a number of small >> companies that want bespoke enterprise application development that >> suits the ofbiz framework. >> >> As for investment cost: >> >> Adempiere functional implementation: ebook cost* - £20. Time to >> read - 40 hours. >> *http://www.packtpub.com/adempiere-3-4-erp-solutions/book >> >> Ofbiz functional implementation: training cost $$$$, additional >> time to learn from wiki, source code etc - 300 hours (this is a wild >> guess). >> >> Cheers, >> >> Chris >> >> >> Ruth Hoffman wrote: >>> Hello Christopher: >>> I'm wondering, since I've never had to use the OFBiz accounting >>> features to run a business, if you have analyzed the ROI on learning >>> and supporting another platform and software application such as >>> OpenBravo vs. dealing with the gaps in OFBiz accounting. >>> Any insight would be greatly appreciated. >>> Regards, >>> Ruth >>> ---------------------------------------------------- >>> [hidden email] >>> http://www.myofbiz.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Olivier Tremblay wrote: >>>> I wonder what will be decided. I need to be able to import from >>>> Quickbooks too, so importation is a feature I'm looking for too. >>>> Hm. So many aspects to consider in such an enormous system. :P >>>> >>>> Le 2009-11-11 à 11:23, Christopher Snow a écrit : >>>> >>>>> The main problem I had with accounting is that for most of the >>>>> accounting features you had to use trunk, but trunk is unstable >>>>> which is a problem when you are trying to learning something new. >>>>> There was little documentation on the accounting component, and >>>>> when something doesn't work you don't know if you are doing >>>>> something wrong, if it's a bug, or if it's a feature. >>>>> >>>>> Olivier Tremblay wrote: >>>>>> I'm not an accountant at all, I did explore the features but it >>>>>> looked pretty good. Which features seemed lacking to you most? >>>>>> >>>>>> Le 2009-11-11 à 11:04, Christopher Snow a écrit : >>>>>> >>>>>>> My experience: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ecommerce tends to be the main strength and focus of ofbiz. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ofbiz accounting is the most immature area. I gave up on ofbiz >>>>>>> accounting and am now looking at OpenBravo / Adempiere. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ofbiz is a fantastic enterprise application development >>>>>>> framework if you want to create your own apps. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ofbiz needs a lot of customization to fit to an individual >>>>>>> business. There is very little documentation on the business >>>>>>> processes within ofbiz so you will have to spend a lot of time >>>>>>> working things out or pay for help. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Olivier Tremblay wrote: >>>>>>>> Actually, we're not sure how deep we want to use it, but we >>>>>>>> need it for accounting, project management, and pretty much the >>>>>>>> whole business flow (which is, if I'm not mistaken, precisely >>>>>>>> the point of OFBiz). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Le 2009-11-11 à 10:31, Harmeet Bedi a écrit : >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Emforium(http://www.allinsoftware.com/), out of Waterloo >>>>>>>>> Ontario is. >>>>>>>>> Good platform but it has a learning curve. A lot depends on >>>>>>>>> how you want to use it. Our usage of ofbiz is very broad and >>>>>>>>> deep. Not sure if you are thinking o using only ecommerce side >>>>>>>>> of it or more or less. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Harmeet >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> From: "Olivier Tremblay" <[hidden email]> >>>>>>>>> To: "OFBiz Newsletter" <[hidden email]> >>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 10:03:27 AM GMT -05:00 >>>>>>>>> US/Canada Eastern >>>>>>>>> Subject: OFBiz in Canada? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hello all! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Just wondering if some of the readers here were using OFBiz in >>>>>>>>> Canada, >>>>>>>>> or even better, in Quebec! My company is considering the use >>>>>>>>> of OFBiz, >>>>>>>>> and as such I'm in charge of researching on the matter. We >>>>>>>>> would like >>>>>>>>> to hear from your experience! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thank you all. :) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Olivier Tremblay >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >> >> |
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On Nov 12, 2009, at 7:34 AM, Christopher Snow wrote: > Ofbiz community seems to be focused on making ofbiz generate as much > consulting revenue as possible and not on making ofbiz a great > shrink wrapped product. For example, end users having to use svn > and patches so to keep their systems up to date is crazy. I don't think that the focus of the OFBiz community is to make OFBiz a consulting revenue generator, nor I think that the absence of a stable recent release is a consequence of this. The awful truth, imo, is that maintaining a release is expensive (in terms of man hours) and the time contributed by the users of OFBiz (i.e. its community made of final users, consultants etc...) until now has not been enough to have a good release plan. Jacopo |
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Are you saying that there are now enough contributors to implement a
good release plan? Many thanks, Chris Jacopo Cappellato wrote: > > On Nov 12, 2009, at 7:34 AM, Christopher Snow wrote: > >> Ofbiz community seems to be focused on making ofbiz generate as much >> consulting revenue as possible and not on making ofbiz a great shrink >> wrapped product. For example, end users having to use svn and patches >> so to keep their systems up to date is crazy. > > I don't think that the focus of the OFBiz community is to make OFBiz a > consulting revenue generator, nor I think that the absence of a stable > recent release is a consequence of this. > The awful truth, imo, is that maintaining a release is expensive (in > terms of man hours) and the time contributed by the users of OFBiz > (i.e. its community made of final users, consultants etc...) until now > has not been enough to have a good release plan. > > Jacopo > |
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In reply to this post by Jacopo Cappellato-4
From: "Jacopo Cappellato" <[hidden email]>
> On Nov 12, 2009, at 7:34 AM, Christopher Snow wrote: > >> Ofbiz community seems to be focused on making ofbiz generate as much >> consulting revenue as possible and not on making ofbiz a great >> shrink wrapped product. For example, end users having to use svn >> and patches so to keep their systems up to date is crazy. > > I don't think that the focus of the OFBiz community is to make OFBiz a > consulting revenue generator, nor I think that the absence of a stable > recent release is a consequence of this. > The awful truth, imo, is that maintaining a release is expensive (in > terms of man hours) and the time contributed by the users of OFBiz > (i.e. its community made of final users, consultants etc...) until now > has not been enough to have a good release plan. > > Jacopo I totally agree with Jacopo, BTW it's a well known fact in the OFBiz community which has been repeated many times on this ML. Though this is slowly improving... Jacques |
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In reply to this post by Chris Snow-3
Yes we need more solid teams, this is improving...
Jacques From: "Christopher Snow" <[hidden email]> > Are you saying that there are now enough contributors to implement a > good release plan? > > Many thanks, > > Chris > > Jacopo Cappellato wrote: >> >> On Nov 12, 2009, at 7:34 AM, Christopher Snow wrote: >> >>> Ofbiz community seems to be focused on making ofbiz generate as much >>> consulting revenue as possible and not on making ofbiz a great shrink >>> wrapped product. For example, end users having to use svn and patches >>> so to keep their systems up to date is crazy. >> >> I don't think that the focus of the OFBiz community is to make OFBiz a >> consulting revenue generator, nor I think that the absence of a stable >> recent release is a consequence of this. >> The awful truth, imo, is that maintaining a release is expensive (in >> terms of man hours) and the time contributed by the users of OFBiz >> (i.e. its community made of final users, consultants etc...) until now >> has not been enough to have a good release plan. >> >> Jacopo >> > |
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In reply to this post by Jacques Le Roux
Not having a stable release is certainly a hindrance in OFBiz adapter.
Even though we have release branch, there is no released binaries which runs without development time tool chain. I can commit my time to: 1. Write ant target/Maven goals to create a binary only release. 2. Write an nice looking installer to install OFBiz with few mouse clicks. Thanks, Raj Jacques Le Roux wrote: > From: "Jacopo Cappellato" <[hidden email]> >> On Nov 12, 2009, at 7:34 AM, Christopher Snow wrote: >> >>> Ofbiz community seems to be focused on making ofbiz generate as >>> much consulting revenue as possible and not on making ofbiz a >>> great shrink wrapped product. For example, end users having to use >>> svn and patches so to keep their systems up to date is crazy. >> >> I don't think that the focus of the OFBiz community is to make OFBiz >> a consulting revenue generator, nor I think that the absence of a >> stable recent release is a consequence of this. >> The awful truth, imo, is that maintaining a release is expensive (in >> terms of man hours) and the time contributed by the users of OFBiz >> (i.e. its community made of final users, consultants etc...) until >> now has not been enough to have a good release plan. >> >> Jacopo > > > I totally agree with Jacopo, BTW it's a well known fact in the OFBiz > community which has been repeated many times on this ML. > Though this is slowly improving... > > Jacques > > |
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In reply to this post by Chris Snow-3
Chris,
it is just a matter of priorities most of the time driven by end customers. At least here, customers want certain features like reporting and SFA and want to know how the system works. We are creating the help files and a general OFBiz document generated from that. We also use the newer functions like email, myportal, selenium, ebay, Birt which are not fully available in the older releases and we enhance the system all the time. On the Antwebsystems.com system we install a new trunk version very frequently. We know very quickly if a version is stable, when not we go back or fix the problem as quick as we can. We use that experience for our customer sites. So for us, a shrink wrapped or older version we will not use, not for us and not for our customers and therefore have less interest creating or maintaining it. Regards, Hans On Thu, 2009-11-12 at 06:34 +0000, Christopher Snow wrote: > Hi Ruth, > > I think there are two main issues which slow the adoption of ofbiz: > > 1 - lack of quality documentation > 2 - the community focus > > The problem with the lack of quality documentation is well known and > needs no further discusssion. > > In my experience, there is a problem with the ofbiz community focus. > Communities such as those surrounding ubuntu and adempiere seem to be > focused on making the product the best it can possibly be. Ofbiz > community seems to be focused on making ofbiz generate as much > consulting revenue as possible and not on making ofbiz a great shrink > wrapped product. For example, end users having to use svn and patches > so to keep their systems up to date is crazy. Also, end users typically > want stability, yet the advice on the mailing lists is to Ofbiz to use > trunk. I will say though that help on the mailing lists is fantastic > (even if the same questions are answered over-and-over again due to the > lack of documentation). > > I think that until the above issues are resolved, adoption of this > fantastic framework will be slow. > > Cheers, > > Chris > > Ruth Hoffman wrote: > > Hi Chris: > > Thanks for the info and the endorsement. > > > > One question: Do you consider long term operational costs (support and > > maintenance) when you bid a job? I'm trying to understand if there is > > any value in a single OFBiz solution vs. supporting multiple > > applications/databases. Or is that something that your client's don't > > really care about? Do you have any thoughts on that? > > > > re: Job boards. It is true that OFBiz doesn't seem to get much "air > > time". Ok, truth be told - here in the US - I don't think I've ever > > seen a job requirement for OFBiz. I certainly would be the first to > > respond to opportunities for OFBiz integrator/developers if I ever saw > > any. Writing books does not pay very well :-( I think the only thing > > that will cure this is time. The more new adopters we get, the more > > likely OFBiz will be brought into the enterprise and become > > mainstream. And then the secret will be out and everyone will be > > salivating all over it - just like the do with Spring and Hibernate. > > > > Regards, > > Ruth > > > > Christopher Snow wrote: > >> Hi Ruth, > >> > >> I spend a lot of time learning. I am learning new systems all the > >> time and to date I have implemented a multitude of opensource > >> solutions . I enjoy learning, I enjoy new technologies. The > >> knowledge I need I normally get from reading books. I have found > >> that it is just not cost effective (i.e. time effective) to try to > >> learn from trial and error, reading wikis or studying source code. I > >> normally do not attend training courses because I can't afford the > >> lost consulting time. Ebooks are great, you can print out a chapter, > >> stick it in your back pocket and read it waiting for a train. > >> > >> In my mind, the best thing that has made ofbiz accessible to me are > >> your books and the book from Jonathon Wong. Unfortunately these > >> resources cover maybe 10% of the total knowledge needed to implement > >> ofbiz. > >> > >> When looking at returns, as a contractor, I usually notice what > >> skills the UK job boards are asking for. I have seen a few jobs > >> recently asking for adempiere and compiere skills. I have not seen > >> many jobs requiring ofbiz skills, but I do have a number of small > >> companies that want bespoke enterprise application development that > >> suits the ofbiz framework. > >> > >> As for investment cost: > >> > >> Adempiere functional implementation: ebook cost* - £20. Time to > >> read - 40 hours. > >> *http://www.packtpub.com/adempiere-3-4-erp-solutions/book > >> > >> Ofbiz functional implementation: training cost $$$$, additional > >> time to learn from wiki, source code etc - 300 hours (this is a wild > >> guess). > >> > >> Cheers, > >> > >> Chris > >> > >> > >> Ruth Hoffman wrote: > >>> Hello Christopher: > >>> I'm wondering, since I've never had to use the OFBiz accounting > >>> features to run a business, if you have analyzed the ROI on learning > >>> and supporting another platform and software application such as > >>> OpenBravo vs. dealing with the gaps in OFBiz accounting. > >>> Any insight would be greatly appreciated. > >>> Regards, > >>> Ruth > >>> ---------------------------------------------------- > >>> [hidden email] > >>> http://www.myofbiz.com > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Olivier Tremblay wrote: > >>>> I wonder what will be decided. I need to be able to import from > >>>> Quickbooks too, so importation is a feature I'm looking for too. > >>>> Hm. So many aspects to consider in such an enormous system. :P > >>>> > >>>> Le 2009-11-11 à 11:23, Christopher Snow a écrit : > >>>> > >>>>> The main problem I had with accounting is that for most of the > >>>>> accounting features you had to use trunk, but trunk is unstable > >>>>> which is a problem when you are trying to learning something new. > >>>>> There was little documentation on the accounting component, and > >>>>> when something doesn't work you don't know if you are doing > >>>>> something wrong, if it's a bug, or if it's a feature. > >>>>> > >>>>> Olivier Tremblay wrote: > >>>>>> I'm not an accountant at all, I did explore the features but it > >>>>>> looked pretty good. Which features seemed lacking to you most? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Le 2009-11-11 à 11:04, Christopher Snow a écrit : > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> My experience: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Ecommerce tends to be the main strength and focus of ofbiz. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Ofbiz accounting is the most immature area. I gave up on ofbiz > >>>>>>> accounting and am now looking at OpenBravo / Adempiere. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Ofbiz is a fantastic enterprise application development > >>>>>>> framework if you want to create your own apps. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Ofbiz needs a lot of customization to fit to an individual > >>>>>>> business. There is very little documentation on the business > >>>>>>> processes within ofbiz so you will have to spend a lot of time > >>>>>>> working things out or pay for help. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Olivier Tremblay wrote: > >>>>>>>> Actually, we're not sure how deep we want to use it, but we > >>>>>>>> need it for accounting, project management, and pretty much the > >>>>>>>> whole business flow (which is, if I'm not mistaken, precisely > >>>>>>>> the point of OFBiz). > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Le 2009-11-11 à 10:31, Harmeet Bedi a écrit : > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Emforium(http://www.allinsoftware.com/), out of Waterloo > >>>>>>>>> Ontario is. > >>>>>>>>> Good platform but it has a learning curve. A lot depends on > >>>>>>>>> how you want to use it. Our usage of ofbiz is very broad and > >>>>>>>>> deep. Not sure if you are thinking o using only ecommerce side > >>>>>>>>> of it or more or less. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Harmeet > >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>>>>> From: "Olivier Tremblay" <[hidden email]> > >>>>>>>>> To: "OFBiz Newsletter" <[hidden email]> > >>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 10:03:27 AM GMT -05:00 > >>>>>>>>> US/Canada Eastern > >>>>>>>>> Subject: OFBiz in Canada? > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Hello all! > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Just wondering if some of the readers here were using OFBiz in > >>>>>>>>> Canada, > >>>>>>>>> or even better, in Quebec! My company is considering the use > >>>>>>>>> of OFBiz, > >>>>>>>>> and as such I'm in charge of researching on the matter. We > >>>>>>>>> would like > >>>>>>>>> to hear from your experience! > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Thank you all. :) > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Olivier Tremblay > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >> > >> > Antwebsystems.com: Quality OFBiz services for competitive rates |
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In reply to this post by Jacques Le Roux
So it's the chicken-and-egg situtation?
There are not enough contributors to focus on making stable releases and documentation. But without stable releases and documentation, new contributors are not attracted to ofbiz. Jacques Le Roux wrote: > Yes we need more solid teams, this is improving... > > Jacques > > From: "Christopher Snow" <[hidden email]> >> Are you saying that there are now enough contributors to implement a >> good release plan? >> >> Many thanks, >> >> Chris >> >> Jacopo Cappellato wrote: >>> >>> On Nov 12, 2009, at 7:34 AM, Christopher Snow wrote: >>> >>>> Ofbiz community seems to be focused on making ofbiz generate as >>>> much consulting revenue as possible and not on making ofbiz a great >>>> shrink wrapped product. For example, end users having to use svn >>>> and patches so to keep their systems up to date is crazy. >>> >>> I don't think that the focus of the OFBiz community is to make OFBiz >>> a consulting revenue generator, nor I think that the absence of a >>> stable recent release is a consequence of this. >>> The awful truth, imo, is that maintaining a release is expensive (in >>> terms of man hours) and the time contributed by the users of OFBiz >>> (i.e. its community made of final users, consultants etc...) until >>> now has not been enough to have a good release plan. >>> >>> Jacopo >>> >> > |
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From: "Christopher Snow" <[hidden email]>
> So it's the chicken-and-egg situtation? No : it's improving and the curve is not exponential nor even quadratic but is more than flat. Actually this is very clear since we released 9.04 And maybe the new effort which may happend on SME will increase even more this curve http://markmail.org/thread/whm4uqjhcvwz6pvp Jacques > There are not enough contributors to focus on making stable releases > and documentation. But without stable releases and documentation, new > contributors are not attracted to ofbiz. > > > Jacques Le Roux wrote: >> Yes we need more solid teams, this is improving... >> >> Jacques >> >> From: "Christopher Snow" <[hidden email]> >>> Are you saying that there are now enough contributors to implement a >>> good release plan? >>> >>> Many thanks, >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> Jacopo Cappellato wrote: >>>> >>>> On Nov 12, 2009, at 7:34 AM, Christopher Snow wrote: >>>> >>>>> Ofbiz community seems to be focused on making ofbiz generate as >>>>> much consulting revenue as possible and not on making ofbiz a great >>>>> shrink wrapped product. For example, end users having to use svn >>>>> and patches so to keep their systems up to date is crazy. >>>> >>>> I don't think that the focus of the OFBiz community is to make OFBiz >>>> a consulting revenue generator, nor I think that the absence of a >>>> stable recent release is a consequence of this. >>>> The awful truth, imo, is that maintaining a release is expensive (in >>>> terms of man hours) and the time contributed by the users of OFBiz >>>> (i.e. its community made of final users, consultants etc...) until >>>> now has not been enough to have a good release plan. >>>> >>>> Jacopo >>>> >>> >> > |
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In reply to this post by rajsaini
Hi Raj,
This would be surely very appreciated! BTW what about OFBIZ-1560 ;o) Jacques From: "Raj Saini" <[hidden email]> > Not having a stable release is certainly a hindrance in OFBiz adapter. > Even though we have release branch, there is no released binaries which > runs without development time tool chain. I can commit my time to: > > 1. Write ant target/Maven goals to create a binary only release. > 2. Write an nice looking installer to install OFBiz with few mouse clicks. > > Thanks, > > Raj > > > Jacques Le Roux wrote: >> From: "Jacopo Cappellato" <[hidden email]> >>> On Nov 12, 2009, at 7:34 AM, Christopher Snow wrote: >>> >>>> Ofbiz community seems to be focused on making ofbiz generate as >>>> much consulting revenue as possible and not on making ofbiz a >>>> great shrink wrapped product. For example, end users having to use >>>> svn and patches so to keep their systems up to date is crazy. >>> >>> I don't think that the focus of the OFBiz community is to make OFBiz >>> a consulting revenue generator, nor I think that the absence of a >>> stable recent release is a consequence of this. >>> The awful truth, imo, is that maintaining a release is expensive (in >>> terms of man hours) and the time contributed by the users of OFBiz >>> (i.e. its community made of final users, consultants etc...) until >>> now has not been enough to have a good release plan. >>> >>> Jacopo >> >> >> I totally agree with Jacopo, BTW it's a well known fact in the OFBiz >> community which has been repeated many times on this ML. >> Though this is slowly improving... >> >> Jacques >> >> > |
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