OFBiz themes gallery on Confluence

[Bruno Busco]

Hi devs,
I am writing a new maincss.css file and I will submit when finished.

I think that several other users/developers will write (or have already)
their .css files.
Since the graphical theme is something very subjective it will be difficult
to agree with a unique theme and have it committed on SVN.
So I propose to open a OFBiz Theme Gallery on confluence where all users can
upload their own theme with a little screenshot.
All users could then browse the available theme, download it and copy on
their ofbiz installation.

The standard theme format to uploaded could be a folder that contains the
maincss.css file and relative gif files.

What do you think about?

Many thanks,
Bruno

[Ashish Vijaywargiya]

Bruno,

I like your idea.

--
Ashish

On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 1:37 AM, Bruno Busco <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi devs,
> I am writing a new maincss.css file and I will submit when finished.
>
> I think that several other users/developers will write (or have already)
> their .css files.
> Since the graphical theme is something very subjective it will be difficult
> to agree with a unique theme and have it committed on SVN.
> So I propose to open a OFBiz Theme Gallery on confluence where all users
> can
> upload their own theme with a little screenshot.
> All users could then browse the available theme, download it and copy on
> their ofbiz installation.
>
> The standard theme format to uploaded could be a folder that contains the
> maincss.css file and relative gif files.
>
> What do you think about?
>
> Many thanks,
> Bruno
>

[Ashish Vijaywargiya]

Sorry for writing again on this.
But I see a loopwhole in this.

Suppose you are creating new maincss.css file.
Someone has downloaded your file and kept your file in images directory and
removes the old one.
Now if user take update of Ofbiz on regular basis or we can say after
certain duration of time.
And if someone introduce a new class in Stylesheet file and uses it
extensively in some section so in this
case your file(maincss.css created by you) might not be having those new
classes entries.
So the layout will not be consistent.

What do you think about it Bruno ?

--
Ashish



On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 1:49 AM, Ashish Vijaywargiya <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Bruno,
>
> I like your idea.
>
> --
> Ashish
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 1:37 AM, Bruno Busco <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi devs,
>> I am writing a new maincss.css file and I will submit when finished.
>>
>> I think that several other users/developers will write (or have already)
>> their .css files.
>> Since the graphical theme is something very subjective it will be
>> difficult
>> to agree with a unique theme and have it committed on SVN.
>> So I propose to open a OFBiz Theme Gallery on confluence where all users
>> can
>> upload their own theme with a little screenshot.
>> All users could then browse the available theme, download it and copy on
>> their ofbiz installation.
>>
>> The standard theme format to uploaded could be a folder that contains the
>> maincss.css file and relative gif files.
>>
>> What do you think about?
>>
>> Many thanks,
>> Bruno
>>
>
>

[Bruno Busco]

Ashish,
thank you for your comments.
Well, of course if the themes are taken from the gallery there should be a
information on the theme that tells you with which release of Ofbiz it can
be used (now we could go with the SVN rev until we have the next release).

For the file overwritting we could think to have the theme in a special
folder (this is how many CMS do, for example Drupal).
So for example we could have:
/framework/images/webapp/images/themes/theme1/maincss.css
/framework/images/webapp/images/themes/theme2/maincss.css

the themesX folder should never be committed. And then have a UI that let us
specify which theme between the availables must be used (this, as suggested,
could be in the user preferences).

-Bruno


2008/7/11 Ashish Vijaywargiya <[hidden email]>:

> Sorry for writing again on this.
> But I see a loopwhole in this.
>
> Suppose you are creating new maincss.css file.
> Someone has downloaded your file and kept your file in images directory and
> removes the old one.
> Now if user take update of Ofbiz on regular basis or we can say after
> certain duration of time.
> And if someone introduce a new class in Stylesheet file and uses it
> extensively in some section so in this
> case your file(maincss.css created by you) might not be having those new
> classes entries.
> So the layout will not be consistent.
>
> What do you think about it Bruno ?
>
> --
> Ashish
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 1:49 AM, Ashish Vijaywargiya <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Bruno,
> >
> > I like your idea.
> >
> > --
> > Ashish
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 1:37 AM, Bruno Busco <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Hi devs,
> >> I am writing a new maincss.css file and I will submit when finished.
> >>
> >> I think that several other users/developers will write (or have already)
> >> their .css files.
> >> Since the graphical theme is something very subjective it will be
> >> difficult
> >> to agree with a unique theme and have it committed on SVN.
> >> So I propose to open a OFBiz Theme Gallery on confluence where all users
> >> can
> >> upload their own theme with a little screenshot.
> >> All users could then browse the available theme, download it and copy on
> >> their ofbiz installation.
> >>
> >> The standard theme format to uploaded could be a folder that contains
> the
> >> maincss.css file and relative gif files.
> >>
> >> What do you think about?
> >>
> >> Many thanks,
> >> Bruno
> >>
> >
> >
>

[Ashish Vijaywargiya]

Comments Inline :-

On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 2:15 AM, Bruno Busco <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Ashish,
> thank you for your comments.
> Well, of course if the themes are taken from the gallery there should be a
> information on the theme that tells you with which release of Ofbiz it can
> be used (now we could go with the SVN rev until we have the next release).
>

If this is the case that you are thinking then I am fine with the desired
approach.


>
> For the file overwritting we could think to have the theme in a special
> folder (this is how many CMS do, for example Drupal).
> So for example we could have:
> /framework/images/webapp/images/themes/theme1/maincss.css
> /framework/images/webapp/images/themes/theme2/maincss.css


+1


>
>
> the themesX folder should never be committed. And then have a UI that let
> us
> specify which theme between the availables must be used (this, as
> suggested,
> could be in the user preferences).
>
+1

>
> -Bruno
>
>
> 2008/7/11 Ashish Vijaywargiya <[hidden email]>:
>
> > Sorry for writing again on this.
> > But I see a loopwhole in this.
> >
> > Suppose you are creating new maincss.css file.
> > Someone has downloaded your file and kept your file in images directory
> and
> > removes the old one.
> > Now if user take update of Ofbiz on regular basis or we can say after
> > certain duration of time.
> > And if someone introduce a new class in Stylesheet file and uses it
> > extensively in some section so in this
> > case your file(maincss.css created by you) might not be having those new
> > classes entries.
> > So the layout will not be consistent.
> >
> > What do you think about it Bruno ?
> >
> > --
> > Ashish
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 1:49 AM, Ashish Vijaywargiya <
> > [hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > Bruno,
> > >
> > > I like your idea.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Ashish
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 1:37 AM, Bruno Busco <[hidden email]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> Hi devs,
> > >> I am writing a new maincss.css file and I will submit when finished.
> > >>
> > >> I think that several other users/developers will write (or have
> already)
> > >> their .css files.
> > >> Since the graphical theme is something very subjective it will be
> > >> difficult
> > >> to agree with a unique theme and have it committed on SVN.
> > >> So I propose to open a OFBiz Theme Gallery on confluence where all
> users
> > >> can
> > >> upload their own theme with a little screenshot.
> > >> All users could then browse the available theme, download it and copy
> on
> > >> their ofbiz installation.
> > >>
> > >> The standard theme format to uploaded could be a folder that contains
> > the
> > >> maincss.css file and relative gif files.
> > >>
> > >> What do you think about?
> > >>
> > >> Many thanks,
> > >> Bruno
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> >
>

[Jacques Le Roux]

Bruno, Ashish,

Having them in separated directories, why not introduce a property in general.properties file (or somewhere else) to select the
theme at will, default being the one we use currently ?

Jacques

From: "Bruno Busco" <[hidden email]>

> Ashish,
> thank you for your comments.
> Well, of course if the themes are taken from the gallery there should be a
> information on the theme that tells you with which release of Ofbiz it can
> be used (now we could go with the SVN rev until we have the next release).
>
> For the file overwritting we could think to have the theme in a special
> folder (this is how many CMS do, for example Drupal).
> So for example we could have:
> /framework/images/webapp/images/themes/theme1/maincss.css
> /framework/images/webapp/images/themes/theme2/maincss.css
>
> the themesX folder should never be committed. And then have a UI that let us
> specify which theme between the availables must be used (this, as suggested,
> could be in the user preferences).
>
> -Bruno
>
>
> 2008/7/11 Ashish Vijaywargiya <[hidden email]>:
>
>> Sorry for writing again on this.
>> But I see a loopwhole in this.
>>
>> Suppose you are creating new maincss.css file.
>> Someone has downloaded your file and kept your file in images directory and
>> removes the old one.
>> Now if user take update of Ofbiz on regular basis or we can say after
>> certain duration of time.
>> And if someone introduce a new class in Stylesheet file and uses it
>> extensively in some section so in this
>> case your file(maincss.css created by you) might not be having those new
>> classes entries.
>> So the layout will not be consistent.
>>
>> What do you think about it Bruno ?
>>
>> --
>> Ashish
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 1:49 AM, Ashish Vijaywargiya <
>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> > Bruno,
>> >
>> > I like your idea.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Ashish
>> >
>> >
>> > On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 1:37 AM, Bruno Busco <[hidden email]>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Hi devs,
>> >> I am writing a new maincss.css file and I will submit when finished.
>> >>
>> >> I think that several other users/developers will write (or have already)
>> >> their .css files.
>> >> Since the graphical theme is something very subjective it will be
>> >> difficult
>> >> to agree with a unique theme and have it committed on SVN.
>> >> So I propose to open a OFBiz Theme Gallery on confluence where all users
>> >> can
>> >> upload their own theme with a little screenshot.
>> >> All users could then browse the available theme, download it and copy on
>> >> their ofbiz installation.
>> >>
>> >> The standard theme format to uploaded could be a folder that contains
>> the
>> >> maincss.css file and relative gif files.
>> >>
>> >> What do you think about?
>> >>
>> >> Many thanks,
>> >> Bruno
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>

[Ashish Vijaywargiya]

+1

On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 4:21 AM, Jacques Le Roux <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Bruno, Ashish,
>
> Having them in separated directories, why not introduce a property in
> general.properties file (or somewhere else) to select the theme at will,
> default being the one we use currently ?
>
> Jacques
>
> From: "Bruno Busco" <[hidden email]>
>
>  Ashish,
>> thank you for your comments.
>> Well, of course if the themes are taken from the gallery there should be a
>> information on the theme that tells you with which release of Ofbiz it can
>> be used (now we could go with the SVN rev until we have the next release).
>>
>> For the file overwritting we could think to have the theme in a special
>> folder (this is how many CMS do, for example Drupal).
>> So for example we could have:
>> /framework/images/webapp/images/themes/theme1/maincss.css
>> /framework/images/webapp/images/themes/theme2/maincss.css
>>
>> the themesX folder should never be committed. And then have a UI that let
>> us
>> specify which theme between the availables must be used (this, as
>> suggested,
>> could be in the user preferences).
>>
>> -Bruno
>>
>>
>> 2008/7/11 Ashish Vijaywargiya <[hidden email]>:
>>
>>  Sorry for writing again on this.
>>> But I see a loopwhole in this.
>>>
>>> Suppose you are creating new maincss.css file.
>>> Someone has downloaded your file and kept your file in images directory
>>> and
>>> removes the old one.
>>> Now if user take update of Ofbiz on regular basis or we can say after
>>> certain duration of time.
>>> And if someone introduce a new class in Stylesheet file and uses it
>>> extensively in some section so in this
>>> case your file(maincss.css created by you) might not be having those new
>>> classes entries.
>>> So the layout will not be consistent.
>>>
>>> What do you think about it Bruno ?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ashish
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 1:49 AM, Ashish Vijaywargiya <
>>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Bruno,
>>> >
>>> > I like your idea.
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Ashish
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 1:37 AM, Bruno Busco <[hidden email]>
>>> > wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Hi devs,
>>> >> I am writing a new maincss.css file and I will submit when finished.
>>> >>
>>> >> I think that several other users/developers will write (or have
>>> already)
>>> >> their .css files.
>>> >> Since the graphical theme is something very subjective it will be
>>> >> difficult
>>> >> to agree with a unique theme and have it committed on SVN.
>>> >> So I propose to open a OFBiz Theme Gallery on confluence where all
>>> users
>>> >> can
>>> >> upload their own theme with a little screenshot.
>>> >> All users could then browse the available theme, download it and copy
>>> on
>>> >> their ofbiz installation.
>>> >>
>>> >> The standard theme format to uploaded could be a folder that contains
>>> the
>>> >> maincss.css file and relative gif files.
>>> >>
>>> >> What do you think about?
>>> >>
>>> >> Many thanks,
>>> >> Bruno
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>
>

[Adrian Crum]

At the last developers conference, I had suggested to David Jones that
we have a "CSS Style Sheet Shootout" - where different OFBiz developers
could submit their themes to Jira and we could vote on them. The one
with the most votes would get committed to the project. At the time
there was too much embedded styling in the project - so it wouldn't work
and, consequently, nothing was done. Things are different now and
changing the style of the whole project is easier. So, I'm in agreement
with that aspect of this thread.

Where I have a problem with this thread has already been mentioned -
having multiple themes in the trunk will become a support nightmare. My
preference would be to have the *capability* to switch themes built into
the framework, but only have one theme in the trunk. Anyone wanting to
supply additional themes could do so on their own. It could even develop
into a cottage industry.

-Adrian

Ashish Vijaywargiya wrote:

> +1
>
> On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 4:21 AM, Jacques Le Roux <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Bruno, Ashish,
>>
>> Having them in separated directories, why not introduce a property in
>> general.properties file (or somewhere else) to select the theme at will,
>> default being the one we use currently ?
>>
>> Jacques
>>
>> From: "Bruno Busco" <[hidden email]>
>>
>>  Ashish,
>>> thank you for your comments.
>>> Well, of course if the themes are taken from the gallery there should be a
>>> information on the theme that tells you with which release of Ofbiz it can
>>> be used (now we could go with the SVN rev until we have the next release).
>>>
>>> For the file overwritting we could think to have the theme in a special
>>> folder (this is how many CMS do, for example Drupal).
>>> So for example we could have:
>>> /framework/images/webapp/images/themes/theme1/maincss.css
>>> /framework/images/webapp/images/themes/theme2/maincss.css
>>>
>>> the themesX folder should never be committed. And then have a UI that let
>>> us
>>> specify which theme between the availables must be used (this, as
>>> suggested,
>>> could be in the user preferences).
>>>
>>> -Bruno
>>>
>>>
>>> 2008/7/11 Ashish Vijaywargiya <[hidden email]>:
>>>
>>>  Sorry for writing again on this.
>>>> But I see a loopwhole in this.
>>>>
>>>> Suppose you are creating new maincss.css file.
>>>> Someone has downloaded your file and kept your file in images directory
>>>> and
>>>> removes the old one.
>>>> Now if user take update of Ofbiz on regular basis or we can say after
>>>> certain duration of time.
>>>> And if someone introduce a new class in Stylesheet file and uses it
>>>> extensively in some section so in this
>>>> case your file(maincss.css created by you) might not be having those new
>>>> classes entries.
>>>> So the layout will not be consistent.
>>>>
>>>> What do you think about it Bruno ?
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Ashish
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 1:49 AM, Ashish Vijaywargiya <
>>>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Bruno,
>>>>>
>>>>> I like your idea.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Ashish
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 1:37 AM, Bruno Busco <[hidden email]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi devs,
>>>>>> I am writing a new maincss.css file and I will submit when finished.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think that several other users/developers will write (or have
>>>> already)
>>>>>> their .css files.
>>>>>> Since the graphical theme is something very subjective it will be
>>>>>> difficult
>>>>>> to agree with a unique theme and have it committed on SVN.
>>>>>> So I propose to open a OFBiz Theme Gallery on confluence where all
>>>> users
>>>>>> can
>>>>>> upload their own theme with a little screenshot.
>>>>>> All users could then browse the available theme, download it and copy
>>>> on
>>>>>> their ofbiz installation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The standard theme format to uploaded could be a folder that contains
>>>> the
>>>>>> maincss.css file and relative gif files.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What do you think about?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Many thanks,
>>>>>> Bruno
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>

[David E Jones]

This is really much easier than it seems, and actually a couple of  
weeks ago I got a couple of people at Hotwax started working on some  
themes and some HTML/CSS enhancements to make the skinning more  
flexible.

The plan we're thinking of is to use the existing the ProdCatalog  
stylesheet field to change the stylesheet, and possible extend that to  
support multiple stylesheets. With this approach all you have to do to  
add a theme is add a hot-deploy component that contains your CSS and  
image files in a webapp, and some data file with the ProdCatalog  
records that would probably be the same as the main demo ProdCatalog  
and be attached to the same store and categories, but with a different  
stylesheet. In this way you could also have different sets of products  
though, which would allow you to easily do some cool demo catalogs/
sites for different sets and types of products.

-David


On Jul 11, 2008, at 9:20 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:

> At the last developers conference, I had suggested to David Jones  
> that we have a "CSS Style Sheet Shootout" - where different OFBiz  
> developers could submit their themes to Jira and we could vote on  
> them. The one with the most votes would get committed to the  
> project. At the time there was too much embedded styling in the  
> project - so it wouldn't work and, consequently, nothing was done.  
> Things are different now and changing the style of the whole project  
> is easier. So, I'm in agreement with that aspect of this thread.
>
> Where I have a problem with this thread has already been mentioned -  
> having multiple themes in the trunk will become a support nightmare.  
> My preference would be to have the *capability* to switch themes  
> built into the framework, but only have one theme in the trunk.  
> Anyone wanting to supply additional themes could do so on their own.  
> It could even develop into a cottage industry.
>
> -Adrian
>
> Ashish Vijaywargiya wrote:
>> +1
>> On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 4:21 AM, Jacques Le Roux <
>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Bruno, Ashish,
>>>
>>> Having them in separated directories, why not introduce a property  
>>> in
>>> general.properties file (or somewhere else) to select the theme at  
>>> will,
>>> default being the one we use currently ?
>>>
>>> Jacques
>>>
>>> From: "Bruno Busco" <[hidden email]>
>>>
>>> Ashish,
>>>> thank you for your comments.
>>>> Well, of course if the themes are taken from the gallery there  
>>>> should be a
>>>> information on the theme that tells you with which release of  
>>>> Ofbiz it can
>>>> be used (now we could go with the SVN rev until we have the next  
>>>> release).
>>>>
>>>> For the file overwritting we could think to have the theme in a  
>>>> special
>>>> folder (this is how many CMS do, for example Drupal).
>>>> So for example we could have:
>>>> /framework/images/webapp/images/themes/theme1/maincss.css
>>>> /framework/images/webapp/images/themes/theme2/maincss.css
>>>>
>>>> the themesX folder should never be committed. And then have a UI  
>>>> that let
>>>> us
>>>> specify which theme between the availables must be used (this, as
>>>> suggested,
>>>> could be in the user preferences).
>>>>
>>>> -Bruno
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2008/7/11 Ashish Vijaywargiya <[hidden email]>:
>>>>
>>>> Sorry for writing again on this.
>>>>> But I see a loopwhole in this.
>>>>>
>>>>> Suppose you are creating new maincss.css file.
>>>>> Someone has downloaded your file and kept your file in images  
>>>>> directory
>>>>> and
>>>>> removes the old one.
>>>>> Now if user take update of Ofbiz on regular basis or we can say  
>>>>> after
>>>>> certain duration of time.
>>>>> And if someone introduce a new class in Stylesheet file and uses  
>>>>> it
>>>>> extensively in some section so in this
>>>>> case your file(maincss.css created by you) might not be having  
>>>>> those new
>>>>> classes entries.
>>>>> So the layout will not be consistent.
>>>>>
>>>>> What do you think about it Bruno ?
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Ashish
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 1:49 AM, Ashish Vijaywargiya <
>>>>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Bruno,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I like your idea.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Ashish
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 1:37 AM, Bruno Busco <[hidden email]
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi devs,
>>>>>>> I am writing a new maincss.css file and I will submit when  
>>>>>>> finished.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think that several other users/developers will write (or have
>>>>> already)
>>>>>>> their .css files.
>>>>>>> Since the graphical theme is something very subjective it will  
>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>> difficult
>>>>>>> to agree with a unique theme and have it committed on SVN.
>>>>>>> So I propose to open a OFBiz Theme Gallery on confluence where  
>>>>>>> all
>>>>> users
>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>> upload their own theme with a little screenshot.
>>>>>>> All users could then browse the available theme, download it  
>>>>>>> and copy
>>>>> on
>>>>>>> their ofbiz installation.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The standard theme format to uploaded could be a folder that  
>>>>>>> contains
>>>>> the
>>>>>>> maincss.css file and relative gif files.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What do you think about?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Many thanks,
>>>>>>> Bruno
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>

[Adrian Crum]

David,

That's great news! Will there also be a way to select the theme for the
back office applications?

-Adrian

David E Jones wrote:

>
> This is really much easier than it seems, and actually a couple of weeks
> ago I got a couple of people at Hotwax started working on some themes
> and some HTML/CSS enhancements to make the skinning more flexible.
>
> The plan we're thinking of is to use the existing the ProdCatalog
> stylesheet field to change the stylesheet, and possible extend that to
> support multiple stylesheets. With this approach all you have to do to
> add a theme is add a hot-deploy component that contains your CSS and
> image files in a webapp, and some data file with the ProdCatalog records
> that would probably be the same as the main demo ProdCatalog and be
> attached to the same store and categories, but with a different
> stylesheet. In this way you could also have different sets of products
> though, which would allow you to easily do some cool demo catalogs/sites
> for different sets and types of products.
>
> -David
>
>
> On Jul 11, 2008, at 9:20 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>
>> At the last developers conference, I had suggested to David Jones that
>> we have a "CSS Style Sheet Shootout" - where different OFBiz
>> developers could submit their themes to Jira and we could vote on
>> them. The one with the most votes would get committed to the project.
>> At the time there was too much embedded styling in the project - so it
>> wouldn't work and, consequently, nothing was done. Things are
>> different now and changing the style of the whole project is easier.
>> So, I'm in agreement with that aspect of this thread.
>>
>> Where I have a problem with this thread has already been mentioned -
>> having multiple themes in the trunk will become a support nightmare.
>> My preference would be to have the *capability* to switch themes built
>> into the framework, but only have one theme in the trunk. Anyone
>> wanting to supply additional themes could do so on their own. It could
>> even develop into a cottage industry.
>>
>> -Adrian
>>
>> Ashish Vijaywargiya wrote:
>>> +1
>>> On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 4:21 AM, Jacques Le Roux <
>>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> Bruno, Ashish,
>>>>
>>>> Having them in separated directories, why not introduce a property in
>>>> general.properties file (or somewhere else) to select the theme at
>>>> will,
>>>> default being the one we use currently ?
>>>>
>>>> Jacques
>>>>
>>>> From: "Bruno Busco" <[hidden email]>
>>>>
>>>> Ashish,
>>>>> thank you for your comments.
>>>>> Well, of course if the themes are taken from the gallery there
>>>>> should be a
>>>>> information on the theme that tells you with which release of Ofbiz
>>>>> it can
>>>>> be used (now we could go with the SVN rev until we have the next
>>>>> release).
>>>>>
>>>>> For the file overwritting we could think to have the theme in a
>>>>> special
>>>>> folder (this is how many CMS do, for example Drupal).
>>>>> So for example we could have:
>>>>> /framework/images/webapp/images/themes/theme1/maincss.css
>>>>> /framework/images/webapp/images/themes/theme2/maincss.css
>>>>>
>>>>> the themesX folder should never be committed. And then have a UI
>>>>> that let
>>>>> us
>>>>> specify which theme between the availables must be used (this, as
>>>>> suggested,
>>>>> could be in the user preferences).
>>>>>
>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2008/7/11 Ashish Vijaywargiya <[hidden email]>:
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry for writing again on this.
>>>>>> But I see a loopwhole in this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Suppose you are creating new maincss.css file.
>>>>>> Someone has downloaded your file and kept your file in images
>>>>>> directory
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> removes the old one.
>>>>>> Now if user take update of Ofbiz on regular basis or we can say after
>>>>>> certain duration of time.
>>>>>> And if someone introduce a new class in Stylesheet file and uses it
>>>>>> extensively in some section so in this
>>>>>> case your file(maincss.css created by you) might not be having
>>>>>> those new
>>>>>> classes entries.
>>>>>> So the layout will not be consistent.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What do you think about it Bruno ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Ashish
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 1:49 AM, Ashish Vijaywargiya <
>>>>>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bruno,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I like your idea.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Ashish
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 1:37 AM, Bruno Busco <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi devs,
>>>>>>>> I am writing a new maincss.css file and I will submit when
>>>>>>>> finished.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think that several other users/developers will write (or have
>>>>>> already)
>>>>>>>> their .css files.
>>>>>>>> Since the graphical theme is something very subjective it will be
>>>>>>>> difficult
>>>>>>>> to agree with a unique theme and have it committed on SVN.
>>>>>>>> So I propose to open a OFBiz Theme Gallery on confluence where all
>>>>>> users
>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>> upload their own theme with a little screenshot.
>>>>>>>> All users could then browse the available theme, download it and
>>>>>>>> copy
>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>> their ofbiz installation.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The standard theme format to uploaded could be a folder that
>>>>>>>> contains
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> maincss.css file and relative gif files.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What do you think about?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Many thanks,
>>>>>>>> Bruno
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>
>

[David E Jones]

Good question/point.... We're mainly just looking at skinning the  
ecommerce application, ie the OOTB templates.

Something similar for the internal apps would be interesting... are  
you thinking of something like a personal preference? For that we  
could do something like specify or upload your own stylesheet (that  
would override any styles desired in the default one), or perhaps even  
get fancier and allow people to specify certain things that would go  
into a dynamically generated stylesheet of some sort to override the  
main stylesheet...

-David


On Jul 11, 2008, at 9:47 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:

> David,
>
> That's great news! Will there also be a way to select the theme for  
> the back office applications?
>
> -Adrian
>
> David E Jones wrote:
>> This is really much easier than it seems, and actually a couple of  
>> weeks ago I got a couple of people at Hotwax started working on  
>> some themes and some HTML/CSS enhancements to make the skinning  
>> more flexible.
>> The plan we're thinking of is to use the existing the ProdCatalog  
>> stylesheet field to change the stylesheet, and possible extend that  
>> to support multiple stylesheets. With this approach all you have to  
>> do to add a theme is add a hot-deploy component that contains your  
>> CSS and image files in a webapp, and some data file with the  
>> ProdCatalog records that would probably be the same as the main  
>> demo ProdCatalog and be attached to the same store and categories,  
>> but with a different stylesheet. In this way you could also have  
>> different sets of products though, which would allow you to easily  
>> do some cool demo catalogs/sites for different sets and types of  
>> products.
>> -David
>> On Jul 11, 2008, at 9:20 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>> At the last developers conference, I had suggested to David Jones  
>>> that we have a "CSS Style Sheet Shootout" - where different OFBiz  
>>> developers could submit their themes to Jira and we could vote on  
>>> them. The one with the most votes would get committed to the  
>>> project. At the time there was too much embedded styling in the  
>>> project - so it wouldn't work and, consequently, nothing was done.  
>>> Things are different now and changing the style of the whole  
>>> project is easier. So, I'm in agreement with that aspect of this  
>>> thread.
>>>
>>> Where I have a problem with this thread has already been mentioned  
>>> - having multiple themes in the trunk will become a support  
>>> nightmare. My preference would be to have the *capability* to  
>>> switch themes built into the framework, but only have one theme in  
>>> the trunk. Anyone wanting to supply additional themes could do so  
>>> on their own. It could even develop into a cottage industry.
>>>
>>> -Adrian
>>>
>>> Ashish Vijaywargiya wrote:
>>>> +1
>>>> On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 4:21 AM, Jacques Le Roux <
>>>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>> Bruno, Ashish,
>>>>>
>>>>> Having them in separated directories, why not introduce a  
>>>>> property in
>>>>> general.properties file (or somewhere else) to select the theme  
>>>>> at will,
>>>>> default being the one we use currently ?
>>>>>
>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>
>>>>> From: "Bruno Busco" <[hidden email]>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ashish,
>>>>>> thank you for your comments.
>>>>>> Well, of course if the themes are taken from the gallery there  
>>>>>> should be a
>>>>>> information on the theme that tells you with which release of  
>>>>>> Ofbiz it can
>>>>>> be used (now we could go with the SVN rev until we have the  
>>>>>> next release).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For the file overwritting we could think to have the theme in a  
>>>>>> special
>>>>>> folder (this is how many CMS do, for example Drupal).
>>>>>> So for example we could have:
>>>>>> /framework/images/webapp/images/themes/theme1/maincss.css
>>>>>> /framework/images/webapp/images/themes/theme2/maincss.css
>>>>>>
>>>>>> the themesX folder should never be committed. And then have a  
>>>>>> UI that let
>>>>>> us
>>>>>> specify which theme between the availables must be used (this, as
>>>>>> suggested,
>>>>>> could be in the user preferences).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2008/7/11 Ashish Vijaywargiya <[hidden email]>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sorry for writing again on this.
>>>>>>> But I see a loopwhole in this.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Suppose you are creating new maincss.css file.
>>>>>>> Someone has downloaded your file and kept your file in images  
>>>>>>> directory
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> removes the old one.
>>>>>>> Now if user take update of Ofbiz on regular basis or we can  
>>>>>>> say after
>>>>>>> certain duration of time.
>>>>>>> And if someone introduce a new class in Stylesheet file and  
>>>>>>> uses it
>>>>>>> extensively in some section so in this
>>>>>>> case your file(maincss.css created by you) might not be having  
>>>>>>> those new
>>>>>>> classes entries.
>>>>>>> So the layout will not be consistent.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What do you think about it Bruno ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Ashish
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 1:49 AM, Ashish Vijaywargiya <
>>>>>>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bruno,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I like your idea.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Ashish
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 1:37 AM, Bruno Busco <[hidden email]
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi devs,
>>>>>>>>> I am writing a new maincss.css file and I will submit when  
>>>>>>>>> finished.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I think that several other users/developers will write (or  
>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> already)
>>>>>>>>> their .css files.
>>>>>>>>> Since the graphical theme is something very subjective it  
>>>>>>>>> will be
>>>>>>>>> difficult
>>>>>>>>> to agree with a unique theme and have it committed on SVN.
>>>>>>>>> So I propose to open a OFBiz Theme Gallery on confluence  
>>>>>>>>> where all
>>>>>>> users
>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>> upload their own theme with a little screenshot.
>>>>>>>>> All users could then browse the available theme, download it  
>>>>>>>>> and copy
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>> their ofbiz installation.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The standard theme format to uploaded could be a folder that  
>>>>>>>>> contains
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> maincss.css file and relative gif files.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What do you think about?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Many thanks,
>>>>>>>>> Bruno
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>

[Adrian Crum]

Well, the system we implemented here is set up with an XML file that has
a selection of themes and where their files can be found. The XML file
is also used to present the user with a menu of styles to choose from.
Their selection is kept in user preferences.

I like your idea better though. Maybe the user preference could contain
the primary key of a ProdCatalog record. The new MyPage component could
have an area that displays all ProdCatalog records for the user to
choose from.

-Adrian

David E Jones wrote:

>
> Good question/point.... We're mainly just looking at skinning the
> ecommerce application, ie the OOTB templates.
>
> Something similar for the internal apps would be interesting... are you
> thinking of something like a personal preference? For that we could do
> something like specify or upload your own stylesheet (that would
> override any styles desired in the default one), or perhaps even get
> fancier and allow people to specify certain things that would go into a
> dynamically generated stylesheet of some sort to override the main
> stylesheet...
>
> -David
>
>
> On Jul 11, 2008, at 9:47 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>
>> David,
>>
>> That's great news! Will there also be a way to select the theme for
>> the back office applications?
>>
>> -Adrian
>>
>> David E Jones wrote:
>>> This is really much easier than it seems, and actually a couple of
>>> weeks ago I got a couple of people at Hotwax started working on some
>>> themes and some HTML/CSS enhancements to make the skinning more
>>> flexible.
>>> The plan we're thinking of is to use the existing the ProdCatalog
>>> stylesheet field to change the stylesheet, and possible extend that
>>> to support multiple stylesheets. With this approach all you have to
>>> do to add a theme is add a hot-deploy component that contains your
>>> CSS and image files in a webapp, and some data file with the
>>> ProdCatalog records that would probably be the same as the main demo
>>> ProdCatalog and be attached to the same store and categories, but
>>> with a different stylesheet. In this way you could also have
>>> different sets of products though, which would allow you to easily do
>>> some cool demo catalogs/sites for different sets and types of products.
>>> -David
>>> On Jul 11, 2008, at 9:20 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>> At the last developers conference, I had suggested to David Jones
>>>> that we have a "CSS Style Sheet Shootout" - where different OFBiz
>>>> developers could submit their themes to Jira and we could vote on
>>>> them. The one with the most votes would get committed to the
>>>> project. At the time there was too much embedded styling in the
>>>> project - so it wouldn't work and, consequently, nothing was done.
>>>> Things are different now and changing the style of the whole project
>>>> is easier. So, I'm in agreement with that aspect of this thread.
>>>>
>>>> Where I have a problem with this thread has already been mentioned -
>>>> having multiple themes in the trunk will become a support nightmare.
>>>> My preference would be to have the *capability* to switch themes
>>>> built into the framework, but only have one theme in the trunk.
>>>> Anyone wanting to supply additional themes could do so on their own.
>>>> It could even develop into a cottage industry.
>>>>
>>>> -Adrian
>>>>
>>>> Ashish Vijaywargiya wrote:
>>>>> +1
>>>>> On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 4:21 AM, Jacques Le Roux <
>>>>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>> Bruno, Ashish,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Having them in separated directories, why not introduce a property in
>>>>>> general.properties file (or somewhere else) to select the theme at
>>>>>> will,
>>>>>> default being the one we use currently ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From: "Bruno Busco" <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ashish,
>>>>>>> thank you for your comments.
>>>>>>> Well, of course if the themes are taken from the gallery there
>>>>>>> should be a
>>>>>>> information on the theme that tells you with which release of
>>>>>>> Ofbiz it can
>>>>>>> be used (now we could go with the SVN rev until we have the next
>>>>>>> release).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For the file overwritting we could think to have the theme in a
>>>>>>> special
>>>>>>> folder (this is how many CMS do, for example Drupal).
>>>>>>> So for example we could have:
>>>>>>> /framework/images/webapp/images/themes/theme1/maincss.css
>>>>>>> /framework/images/webapp/images/themes/theme2/maincss.css
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the themesX folder should never be committed. And then have a UI
>>>>>>> that let
>>>>>>> us
>>>>>>> specify which theme between the availables must be used (this, as
>>>>>>> suggested,
>>>>>>> could be in the user preferences).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2008/7/11 Ashish Vijaywargiya <[hidden email]>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sorry for writing again on this.
>>>>>>>> But I see a loopwhole in this.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Suppose you are creating new maincss.css file.
>>>>>>>> Someone has downloaded your file and kept your file in images
>>>>>>>> directory
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> removes the old one.
>>>>>>>> Now if user take update of Ofbiz on regular basis or we can say
>>>>>>>> after
>>>>>>>> certain duration of time.
>>>>>>>> And if someone introduce a new class in Stylesheet file and uses it
>>>>>>>> extensively in some section so in this
>>>>>>>> case your file(maincss.css created by you) might not be having
>>>>>>>> those new
>>>>>>>> classes entries.
>>>>>>>> So the layout will not be consistent.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What do you think about it Bruno ?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Ashish
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 1:49 AM, Ashish Vijaywargiya <
>>>>>>>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bruno,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I like your idea.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Ashish
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 1:37 AM, Bruno Busco
>>>>>>>>> <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi devs,
>>>>>>>>>> I am writing a new maincss.css file and I will submit when
>>>>>>>>>> finished.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I think that several other users/developers will write (or have
>>>>>>>> already)
>>>>>>>>>> their .css files.
>>>>>>>>>> Since the graphical theme is something very subjective it will be
>>>>>>>>>> difficult
>>>>>>>>>> to agree with a unique theme and have it committed on SVN.
>>>>>>>>>> So I propose to open a OFBiz Theme Gallery on confluence where
>>>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>> users
>>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>>> upload their own theme with a little screenshot.
>>>>>>>>>> All users could then browse the available theme, download it
>>>>>>>>>> and copy
>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>> their ofbiz installation.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The standard theme format to uploaded could be a folder that
>>>>>>>>>> contains
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> maincss.css file and relative gif files.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What do you think about?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Many thanks,
>>>>>>>>>> Bruno
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>
>

[Bruno Busco]

I was originally thinking to the backoffice theme only but of course what
you are now proposing is FAR better.

The only thing that I would like to add is that the backoffice theme
selection should be not dependent on the product application but only on the
user preferences system.

-Bruno

2008/7/11 Adrian Crum <[hidden email]>:

> Well, the system we implemented here is set up with an XML file that has a
> selection of themes and where their files can be found. The XML file is also
> used to present the user with a menu of styles to choose from. Their
> selection is kept in user preferences.
>
> I like your idea better though. Maybe the user preference could contain the
> primary key of a ProdCatalog record. The new MyPage component could have an
> area that displays all ProdCatalog records for the user to choose from.
>
>
> -Adrian
>
> David E Jones wrote:
>
>>
>> Good question/point.... We're mainly just looking at skinning the
>> ecommerce application, ie the OOTB templates.
>>
>> Something similar for the internal apps would be interesting... are you
>> thinking of something like a personal preference? For that we could do
>> something like specify or upload your own stylesheet (that would override
>> any styles desired in the default one), or perhaps even get fancier and
>> allow people to specify certain things that would go into a dynamically
>> generated stylesheet of some sort to override the main stylesheet...
>>
>> -David
>>
>>
>> On Jul 11, 2008, at 9:47 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>
>>  David,
>>>
>>> That's great news! Will there also be a way to select the theme for the
>>> back office applications?
>>>
>>> -Adrian
>>>
>>> David E Jones wrote:
>>>
>>>> This is really much easier than it seems, and actually a couple of weeks
>>>> ago I got a couple of people at Hotwax started working on some themes and
>>>> some HTML/CSS enhancements to make the skinning more flexible.
>>>> The plan we're thinking of is to use the existing the ProdCatalog
>>>> stylesheet field to change the stylesheet, and possible extend that to
>>>> support multiple stylesheets. With this approach all you have to do to add a
>>>> theme is add a hot-deploy component that contains your CSS and image files
>>>> in a webapp, and some data file with the ProdCatalog records that would
>>>> probably be the same as the main demo ProdCatalog and be attached to the
>>>> same store and categories, but with a different stylesheet. In this way you
>>>> could also have different sets of products though, which would allow you to
>>>> easily do some cool demo catalogs/sites for different sets and types of
>>>> products.
>>>> -David
>>>> On Jul 11, 2008, at 9:20 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> At the last developers conference, I had suggested to David Jones that
>>>>> we have a "CSS Style Sheet Shootout" - where different OFBiz developers
>>>>> could submit their themes to Jira and we could vote on them. The one with
>>>>> the most votes would get committed to the project. At the time there was too
>>>>> much embedded styling in the project - so it wouldn't work and,
>>>>> consequently, nothing was done. Things are different now and changing the
>>>>> style of the whole project is easier. So, I'm in agreement with that aspect
>>>>> of this thread.
>>>>>
>>>>> Where I have a problem with this thread has already been mentioned -
>>>>> having multiple themes in the trunk will become a support nightmare. My
>>>>> preference would be to have the *capability* to switch themes built into the
>>>>> framework, but only have one theme in the trunk. Anyone wanting to supply
>>>>> additional themes could do so on their own. It could even develop into a
>>>>> cottage industry.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>
>>>>> Ashish Vijaywargiya wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> +1
>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 4:21 AM, Jacques Le Roux <
>>>>>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bruno, Ashish,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Having them in separated directories, why not introduce a property in
>>>>>>> general.properties file (or somewhere else) to select the theme at
>>>>>>> will,
>>>>>>> default being the one we use currently ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: "Bruno Busco" <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ashish,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> thank you for your comments.
>>>>>>>> Well, of course if the themes are taken from the gallery there
>>>>>>>> should be a
>>>>>>>> information on the theme that tells you with which release of Ofbiz
>>>>>>>> it can
>>>>>>>> be used (now we could go with the SVN rev until we have the next
>>>>>>>> release).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For the file overwritting we could think to have the theme in a
>>>>>>>> special
>>>>>>>> folder (this is how many CMS do, for example Drupal).
>>>>>>>> So for example we could have:
>>>>>>>> /framework/images/webapp/images/themes/theme1/maincss.css
>>>>>>>> /framework/images/webapp/images/themes/theme2/maincss.css
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the themesX folder should never be committed. And then have a UI
>>>>>>>> that let
>>>>>>>> us
>>>>>>>> specify which theme between the availables must be used (this, as
>>>>>>>> suggested,
>>>>>>>> could be in the user preferences).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2008/7/11 Ashish Vijaywargiya <[hidden email]>:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sorry for writing again on this.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But I see a loopwhole in this.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Suppose you are creating new maincss.css file.
>>>>>>>>> Someone has downloaded your file and kept your file in images
>>>>>>>>> directory
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> removes the old one.
>>>>>>>>> Now if user take update of Ofbiz on regular basis or we can say
>>>>>>>>> after
>>>>>>>>> certain duration of time.
>>>>>>>>> And if someone introduce a new class in Stylesheet file and uses it
>>>>>>>>> extensively in some section so in this
>>>>>>>>> case your file(maincss.css created by you) might not be having
>>>>>>>>> those new
>>>>>>>>> classes entries.
>>>>>>>>> So the layout will not be consistent.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What do you think about it Bruno ?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Ashish
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 1:49 AM, Ashish Vijaywargiya <
>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  Bruno,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I like your idea.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Ashish
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 1:37 AM, Bruno Busco <
>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>  Hi devs,
>>>>>>>>>>> I am writing a new maincss.css file and I will submit when
>>>>>>>>>>> finished.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I think that several other users/developers will write (or have
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> already)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> their .css files.
>>>>>>>>>>> Since the graphical theme is something very subjective it will be
>>>>>>>>>>> difficult
>>>>>>>>>>> to agree with a unique theme and have it committed on SVN.
>>>>>>>>>>> So I propose to open a OFBiz Theme Gallery on confluence where
>>>>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> users
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>>>> upload their own theme with a little screenshot.
>>>>>>>>>>> All users could then browse the available theme, download it and
>>>>>>>>>>> copy
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> their ofbiz installation.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The standard theme format to uploaded could be a folder that
>>>>>>>>>>> contains
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> maincss.css file and relative gif files.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> What do you think about?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Many thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>> Bruno
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>
>>

[David E Jones]

The ProdCatalog thingy is really only for the ecommerce site. For  
manager application styling and preferences it would be serious hack...

-David


On Jul 11, 2008, at 9:58 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:

> Well, the system we implemented here is set up with an XML file that  
> has a selection of themes and where their files can be found. The  
> XML file is also used to present the user with a menu of styles to  
> choose from. Their selection is kept in user preferences.
>
> I like your idea better though. Maybe the user preference could  
> contain the primary key of a ProdCatalog record. The new MyPage  
> component could have an area that displays all ProdCatalog records  
> for the user to choose from.
>
> -Adrian
>
> David E Jones wrote:
>> Good question/point.... We're mainly just looking at skinning the  
>> ecommerce application, ie the OOTB templates.
>> Something similar for the internal apps would be interesting... are  
>> you thinking of something like a personal preference? For that we  
>> could do something like specify or upload your own stylesheet (that  
>> would override any styles desired in the default one), or perhaps  
>> even get fancier and allow people to specify certain things that  
>> would go into a dynamically generated stylesheet of some sort to  
>> override the main stylesheet...
>> -David
>> On Jul 11, 2008, at 9:47 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>> David,
>>>
>>> That's great news! Will there also be a way to select the theme  
>>> for the back office applications?
>>>
>>> -Adrian
>>>
>>> David E Jones wrote:
>>>> This is really much easier than it seems, and actually a couple  
>>>> of weeks ago I got a couple of people at Hotwax started working  
>>>> on some themes and some HTML/CSS enhancements to make the  
>>>> skinning more flexible.
>>>> The plan we're thinking of is to use the existing the ProdCatalog  
>>>> stylesheet field to change the stylesheet, and possible extend  
>>>> that to support multiple stylesheets. With this approach all you  
>>>> have to do to add a theme is add a hot-deploy component that  
>>>> contains your CSS and image files in a webapp, and some data file  
>>>> with the ProdCatalog records that would probably be the same as  
>>>> the main demo ProdCatalog and be attached to the same store and  
>>>> categories, but with a different stylesheet. In this way you  
>>>> could also have different sets of products though, which would  
>>>> allow you to easily do some cool demo catalogs/sites for  
>>>> different sets and types of products.
>>>> -David
>>>> On Jul 11, 2008, at 9:20 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>> At the last developers conference, I had suggested to David  
>>>>> Jones that we have a "CSS Style Sheet Shootout" - where  
>>>>> different OFBiz developers could submit their themes to Jira and  
>>>>> we could vote on them. The one with the most votes would get  
>>>>> committed to the project. At the time there was too much  
>>>>> embedded styling in the project - so it wouldn't work and,  
>>>>> consequently, nothing was done. Things are different now and  
>>>>> changing the style of the whole project is easier. So, I'm in  
>>>>> agreement with that aspect of this thread.
>>>>>
>>>>> Where I have a problem with this thread has already been  
>>>>> mentioned - having multiple themes in the trunk will become a  
>>>>> support nightmare. My preference would be to have the  
>>>>> *capability* to switch themes built into the framework, but only  
>>>>> have one theme in the trunk. Anyone wanting to supply additional  
>>>>> themes could do so on their own. It could even develop into a  
>>>>> cottage industry.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>
>>>>> Ashish Vijaywargiya wrote:
>>>>>> +1
>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 4:21 AM, Jacques Le Roux <
>>>>>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>> Bruno, Ashish,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Having them in separated directories, why not introduce a  
>>>>>>> property in
>>>>>>> general.properties file (or somewhere else) to select the  
>>>>>>> theme at will,
>>>>>>> default being the one we use currently ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: "Bruno Busco" <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ashish,
>>>>>>>> thank you for your comments.
>>>>>>>> Well, of course if the themes are taken from the gallery  
>>>>>>>> there should be a
>>>>>>>> information on the theme that tells you with which release of  
>>>>>>>> Ofbiz it can
>>>>>>>> be used (now we could go with the SVN rev until we have the  
>>>>>>>> next release).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For the file overwritting we could think to have the theme in  
>>>>>>>> a special
>>>>>>>> folder (this is how many CMS do, for example Drupal).
>>>>>>>> So for example we could have:
>>>>>>>> /framework/images/webapp/images/themes/theme1/maincss.css
>>>>>>>> /framework/images/webapp/images/themes/theme2/maincss.css
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the themesX folder should never be committed. And then have a  
>>>>>>>> UI that let
>>>>>>>> us
>>>>>>>> specify which theme between the availables must be used  
>>>>>>>> (this, as
>>>>>>>> suggested,
>>>>>>>> could be in the user preferences).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2008/7/11 Ashish Vijaywargiya <[hidden email]>:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sorry for writing again on this.
>>>>>>>>> But I see a loopwhole in this.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Suppose you are creating new maincss.css file.
>>>>>>>>> Someone has downloaded your file and kept your file in  
>>>>>>>>> images directory
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> removes the old one.
>>>>>>>>> Now if user take update of Ofbiz on regular basis or we can  
>>>>>>>>> say after
>>>>>>>>> certain duration of time.
>>>>>>>>> And if someone introduce a new class in Stylesheet file and  
>>>>>>>>> uses it
>>>>>>>>> extensively in some section so in this
>>>>>>>>> case your file(maincss.css created by you) might not be  
>>>>>>>>> having those new
>>>>>>>>> classes entries.
>>>>>>>>> So the layout will not be consistent.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What do you think about it Bruno ?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Ashish
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 1:49 AM, Ashish Vijaywargiya <
>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Bruno,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I like your idea.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Ashish
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 1:37 AM, Bruno Busco <[hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi devs,
>>>>>>>>>>> I am writing a new maincss.css file and I will submit when  
>>>>>>>>>>> finished.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I think that several other users/developers will write (or  
>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>> already)
>>>>>>>>>>> their .css files.
>>>>>>>>>>> Since the graphical theme is something very subjective it  
>>>>>>>>>>> will be
>>>>>>>>>>> difficult
>>>>>>>>>>> to agree with a unique theme and have it committed on SVN.
>>>>>>>>>>> So I propose to open a OFBiz Theme Gallery on confluence  
>>>>>>>>>>> where all
>>>>>>>>> users
>>>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>>>> upload their own theme with a little screenshot.
>>>>>>>>>>> All users could then browse the available theme, download  
>>>>>>>>>>> it and copy
>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>> their ofbiz installation.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The standard theme format to uploaded could be a folder  
>>>>>>>>>>> that contains
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> maincss.css file and relative gif files.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> What do you think about?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Many thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>> Bruno
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>

[Jacques Le Roux]

BTW I have added a comment about recent UI discussions in
http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBADMIN/User+Interface+Layout+Best+Practices?focusedCommentId=4729#comment-4729
It's already out of date :o) But I think it still can help

Jacques

From: "Bruno Busco" <[hidden email]>

>I was originally thinking to the backoffice theme only but of course what
> you are now proposing is FAR better.
>
> The only thing that I would like to add is that the backoffice theme
> selection should be not dependent on the product application but only on the
> user preferences system.
>
> -Bruno
>
> 2008/7/11 Adrian Crum <[hidden email]>:
>
>> Well, the system we implemented here is set up with an XML file that has a
>> selection of themes and where their files can be found. The XML file is also
>> used to present the user with a menu of styles to choose from. Their
>> selection is kept in user preferences.
>>
>> I like your idea better though. Maybe the user preference could contain the
>> primary key of a ProdCatalog record. The new MyPage component could have an
>> area that displays all ProdCatalog records for the user to choose from.
>>
>>
>> -Adrian
>>
>> David E Jones wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Good question/point.... We're mainly just looking at skinning the
>>> ecommerce application, ie the OOTB templates.
>>>
>>> Something similar for the internal apps would be interesting... are you
>>> thinking of something like a personal preference? For that we could do
>>> something like specify or upload your own stylesheet (that would override
>>> any styles desired in the default one), or perhaps even get fancier and
>>> allow people to specify certain things that would go into a dynamically
>>> generated stylesheet of some sort to override the main stylesheet...
>>>
>>> -David
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jul 11, 2008, at 9:47 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>
>>>  David,
>>>>
>>>> That's great news! Will there also be a way to select the theme for the
>>>> back office applications?
>>>>
>>>> -Adrian
>>>>
>>>> David E Jones wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> This is really much easier than it seems, and actually a couple of weeks
>>>>> ago I got a couple of people at Hotwax started working on some themes and
>>>>> some HTML/CSS enhancements to make the skinning more flexible.
>>>>> The plan we're thinking of is to use the existing the ProdCatalog
>>>>> stylesheet field to change the stylesheet, and possible extend that to
>>>>> support multiple stylesheets. With this approach all you have to do to add a
>>>>> theme is add a hot-deploy component that contains your CSS and image files
>>>>> in a webapp, and some data file with the ProdCatalog records that would
>>>>> probably be the same as the main demo ProdCatalog and be attached to the
>>>>> same store and categories, but with a different stylesheet. In this way you
>>>>> could also have different sets of products though, which would allow you to
>>>>> easily do some cool demo catalogs/sites for different sets and types of
>>>>> products.
>>>>> -David
>>>>> On Jul 11, 2008, at 9:20 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> At the last developers conference, I had suggested to David Jones that
>>>>>> we have a "CSS Style Sheet Shootout" - where different OFBiz developers
>>>>>> could submit their themes to Jira and we could vote on them. The one with
>>>>>> the most votes would get committed to the project. At the time there was too
>>>>>> much embedded styling in the project - so it wouldn't work and,
>>>>>> consequently, nothing was done. Things are different now and changing the
>>>>>> style of the whole project is easier. So, I'm in agreement with that aspect
>>>>>> of this thread.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Where I have a problem with this thread has already been mentioned -
>>>>>> having multiple themes in the trunk will become a support nightmare. My
>>>>>> preference would be to have the *capability* to switch themes built into the
>>>>>> framework, but only have one theme in the trunk. Anyone wanting to supply
>>>>>> additional themes could do so on their own. It could even develop into a
>>>>>> cottage industry.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ashish Vijaywargiya wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> +1
>>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 4:21 AM, Jacques Le Roux <
>>>>>>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bruno, Ashish,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Having them in separated directories, why not introduce a property in
>>>>>>>> general.properties file (or somewhere else) to select the theme at
>>>>>>>> will,
>>>>>>>> default being the one we use currently ?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From: "Bruno Busco" <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ashish,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> thank you for your comments.
>>>>>>>>> Well, of course if the themes are taken from the gallery there
>>>>>>>>> should be a
>>>>>>>>> information on the theme that tells you with which release of Ofbiz
>>>>>>>>> it can
>>>>>>>>> be used (now we could go with the SVN rev until we have the next
>>>>>>>>> release).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> For the file overwritting we could think to have the theme in a
>>>>>>>>> special
>>>>>>>>> folder (this is how many CMS do, for example Drupal).
>>>>>>>>> So for example we could have:
>>>>>>>>> /framework/images/webapp/images/themes/theme1/maincss.css
>>>>>>>>> /framework/images/webapp/images/themes/theme2/maincss.css
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> the themesX folder should never be committed. And then have a UI
>>>>>>>>> that let
>>>>>>>>> us
>>>>>>>>> specify which theme between the availables must be used (this, as
>>>>>>>>> suggested,
>>>>>>>>> could be in the user preferences).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 2008/7/11 Ashish Vijaywargiya <[hidden email]>:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sorry for writing again on this.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> But I see a loopwhole in this.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Suppose you are creating new maincss.css file.
>>>>>>>>>> Someone has downloaded your file and kept your file in images
>>>>>>>>>> directory
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> removes the old one.
>>>>>>>>>> Now if user take update of Ofbiz on regular basis or we can say
>>>>>>>>>> after
>>>>>>>>>> certain duration of time.
>>>>>>>>>> And if someone introduce a new class in Stylesheet file and uses it
>>>>>>>>>> extensively in some section so in this
>>>>>>>>>> case your file(maincss.css created by you) might not be having
>>>>>>>>>> those new
>>>>>>>>>> classes entries.
>>>>>>>>>> So the layout will not be consistent.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What do you think about it Bruno ?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Ashish
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 1:49 AM, Ashish Vijaywargiya <
>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>  Bruno,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I like your idea.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> Ashish
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 1:37 AM, Bruno Busco <
>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  Hi devs,
>>>>>>>>>>>> I am writing a new maincss.css file and I will submit when
>>>>>>>>>>>> finished.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I think that several other users/developers will write (or have
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> already)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> their .css files.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Since the graphical theme is something very subjective it will be
>>>>>>>>>>>> difficult
>>>>>>>>>>>> to agree with a unique theme and have it committed on SVN.
>>>>>>>>>>>> So I propose to open a OFBiz Theme Gallery on confluence where
>>>>>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> users
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>>>>> upload their own theme with a little screenshot.
>>>>>>>>>>>> All users could then browse the available theme, download it and
>>>>>>>>>>>> copy
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> their ofbiz installation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The standard theme format to uploaded could be a folder that
>>>>>>>>>>>> contains
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> maincss.css file and relative gif files.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you think about?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Many thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Bruno
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>

[Adrian Crum]

Agreed. But do we want duplicate implementations?

Maybe we can come up with a framework implementation that eCommerce
builds on. Let's say the framework has a system of selecting themes.
Then in eCommerce, instead of specifying a stylesheet in the
ProdCatalog, you could specify a theme. The framework theme-handling
code would then use the appropriate style sheet.

What do you think?

-Adrian

David E Jones wrote:

>
> The ProdCatalog thingy is really only for the ecommerce site. For
> manager application styling and preferences it would be serious hack...
>
> -David
>
>
> On Jul 11, 2008, at 9:58 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>
>> Well, the system we implemented here is set up with an XML file that
>> has a selection of themes and where their files can be found. The XML
>> file is also used to present the user with a menu of styles to choose
>> from. Their selection is kept in user preferences.
>>
>> I like your idea better though. Maybe the user preference could
>> contain the primary key of a ProdCatalog record. The new MyPage
>> component could have an area that displays all ProdCatalog records for
>> the user to choose from.
>>
>> -Adrian
>>
>> David E Jones wrote:
>>> Good question/point.... We're mainly just looking at skinning the
>>> ecommerce application, ie the OOTB templates.
>>> Something similar for the internal apps would be interesting... are
>>> you thinking of something like a personal preference? For that we
>>> could do something like specify or upload your own stylesheet (that
>>> would override any styles desired in the default one), or perhaps
>>> even get fancier and allow people to specify certain things that
>>> would go into a dynamically generated stylesheet of some sort to
>>> override the main stylesheet...
>>> -David
>>> On Jul 11, 2008, at 9:47 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>> David,
>>>>
>>>> That's great news! Will there also be a way to select the theme for
>>>> the back office applications?
>>>>
>>>> -Adrian
>>>>
>>>> David E Jones wrote:
>>>>> This is really much easier than it seems, and actually a couple of
>>>>> weeks ago I got a couple of people at Hotwax started working on
>>>>> some themes and some HTML/CSS enhancements to make the skinning
>>>>> more flexible.
>>>>> The plan we're thinking of is to use the existing the ProdCatalog
>>>>> stylesheet field to change the stylesheet, and possible extend that
>>>>> to support multiple stylesheets. With this approach all you have to
>>>>> do to add a theme is add a hot-deploy component that contains your
>>>>> CSS and image files in a webapp, and some data file with the
>>>>> ProdCatalog records that would probably be the same as the main
>>>>> demo ProdCatalog and be attached to the same store and categories,
>>>>> but with a different stylesheet. In this way you could also have
>>>>> different sets of products though, which would allow you to easily
>>>>> do some cool demo catalogs/sites for different sets and types of
>>>>> products.
>>>>> -David
>>>>> On Jul 11, 2008, at 9:20 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>> At the last developers conference, I had suggested to David Jones
>>>>>> that we have a "CSS Style Sheet Shootout" - where different OFBiz
>>>>>> developers could submit their themes to Jira and we could vote on
>>>>>> them. The one with the most votes would get committed to the
>>>>>> project. At the time there was too much embedded styling in the
>>>>>> project - so it wouldn't work and, consequently, nothing was done.
>>>>>> Things are different now and changing the style of the whole
>>>>>> project is easier. So, I'm in agreement with that aspect of this
>>>>>> thread.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Where I have a problem with this thread has already been mentioned
>>>>>> - having multiple themes in the trunk will become a support
>>>>>> nightmare. My preference would be to have the *capability* to
>>>>>> switch themes built into the framework, but only have one theme in
>>>>>> the trunk. Anyone wanting to supply additional themes could do so
>>>>>> on their own. It could even develop into a cottage industry.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ashish Vijaywargiya wrote:
>>>>>>> +1
>>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 4:21 AM, Jacques Le Roux <
>>>>>>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Bruno, Ashish,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Having them in separated directories, why not introduce a
>>>>>>>> property in
>>>>>>>> general.properties file (or somewhere else) to select the theme
>>>>>>>> at will,
>>>>>>>> default being the one we use currently ?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From: "Bruno Busco" <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ashish,
>>>>>>>>> thank you for your comments.
>>>>>>>>> Well, of course if the themes are taken from the gallery there
>>>>>>>>> should be a
>>>>>>>>> information on the theme that tells you with which release of
>>>>>>>>> Ofbiz it can
>>>>>>>>> be used (now we could go with the SVN rev until we have the
>>>>>>>>> next release).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> For the file overwritting we could think to have the theme in a
>>>>>>>>> special
>>>>>>>>> folder (this is how many CMS do, for example Drupal).
>>>>>>>>> So for example we could have:
>>>>>>>>> /framework/images/webapp/images/themes/theme1/maincss.css
>>>>>>>>> /framework/images/webapp/images/themes/theme2/maincss.css
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> the themesX folder should never be committed. And then have a
>>>>>>>>> UI that let
>>>>>>>>> us
>>>>>>>>> specify which theme between the availables must be used (this, as
>>>>>>>>> suggested,
>>>>>>>>> could be in the user preferences).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 2008/7/11 Ashish Vijaywargiya <[hidden email]>:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sorry for writing again on this.
>>>>>>>>>> But I see a loopwhole in this.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Suppose you are creating new maincss.css file.
>>>>>>>>>> Someone has downloaded your file and kept your file in images
>>>>>>>>>> directory
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> removes the old one.
>>>>>>>>>> Now if user take update of Ofbiz on regular basis or we can
>>>>>>>>>> say after
>>>>>>>>>> certain duration of time.
>>>>>>>>>> And if someone introduce a new class in Stylesheet file and
>>>>>>>>>> uses it
>>>>>>>>>> extensively in some section so in this
>>>>>>>>>> case your file(maincss.css created by you) might not be having
>>>>>>>>>> those new
>>>>>>>>>> classes entries.
>>>>>>>>>> So the layout will not be consistent.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What do you think about it Bruno ?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Ashish
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 1:49 AM, Ashish Vijaywargiya <
>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Bruno,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I like your idea.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> Ashish
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 1:37 AM, Bruno Busco
>>>>>>>>>>> <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi devs,
>>>>>>>>>>>> I am writing a new maincss.css file and I will submit when
>>>>>>>>>>>> finished.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I think that several other users/developers will write (or have
>>>>>>>>>> already)
>>>>>>>>>>>> their .css files.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Since the graphical theme is something very subjective it
>>>>>>>>>>>> will be
>>>>>>>>>>>> difficult
>>>>>>>>>>>> to agree with a unique theme and have it committed on SVN.
>>>>>>>>>>>> So I propose to open a OFBiz Theme Gallery on confluence
>>>>>>>>>>>> where all
>>>>>>>>>> users
>>>>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>>>>> upload their own theme with a little screenshot.
>>>>>>>>>>>> All users could then browse the available theme, download it
>>>>>>>>>>>> and copy
>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>> their ofbiz installation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The standard theme format to uploaded could be a folder that
>>>>>>>>>>>> contains
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> maincss.css file and relative gif files.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you think about?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Many thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Bruno
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>
>

[David E Jones]

It depends on the requirements and what we want to design for each  
thing.

For ecommerce the common requirement is to let the people running the  
store decide what it will look like, with possibly different L&F for  
different sets of products (ie different catalogs).

Would (does?) anyone really want user selectable styling for ecommerce?

On the backend it's different altogether. Those are the tools  
employees, contractors, etc use on a regular basis and it might be  
nice to allow them to change certain colors, fonts, etc... just like  
you would do with your desktop and various applications on it.

Different requirements, different implementations and tools.

-David


On Jul 11, 2008, at 10:58 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:

> Agreed. But do we want duplicate implementations?
>
> Maybe we can come up with a framework implementation that eCommerce  
> builds on. Let's say the framework has a system of selecting themes.  
> Then in eCommerce, instead of specifying a stylesheet in the  
> ProdCatalog, you could specify a theme. The framework theme-handling  
> code would then use the appropriate style sheet.
>
> What do you think?
>
> -Adrian
>
> David E Jones wrote:
>> The ProdCatalog thingy is really only for the ecommerce site. For  
>> manager application styling and preferences it would be serious  
>> hack...
>> -David
>> On Jul 11, 2008, at 9:58 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>> Well, the system we implemented here is set up with an XML file  
>>> that has a selection of themes and where their files can be found.  
>>> The XML file is also used to present the user with a menu of  
>>> styles to choose from. Their selection is kept in user preferences.
>>>
>>> I like your idea better though. Maybe the user preference could  
>>> contain the primary key of a ProdCatalog record. The new MyPage  
>>> component could have an area that displays all ProdCatalog records  
>>> for the user to choose from.
>>>
>>> -Adrian
>>>
>>> David E Jones wrote:
>>>> Good question/point.... We're mainly just looking at skinning the  
>>>> ecommerce application, ie the OOTB templates.
>>>> Something similar for the internal apps would be interesting...  
>>>> are you thinking of something like a personal preference? For  
>>>> that we could do something like specify or upload your own  
>>>> stylesheet (that would override any styles desired in the default  
>>>> one), or perhaps even get fancier and allow people to specify  
>>>> certain things that would go into a dynamically generated  
>>>> stylesheet of some sort to override the main stylesheet...
>>>> -David
>>>> On Jul 11, 2008, at 9:47 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>> David,
>>>>>
>>>>> That's great news! Will there also be a way to select the theme  
>>>>> for the back office applications?
>>>>>
>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>
>>>>> David E Jones wrote:
>>>>>> This is really much easier than it seems, and actually a couple  
>>>>>> of weeks ago I got a couple of people at Hotwax started working  
>>>>>> on some themes and some HTML/CSS enhancements to make the  
>>>>>> skinning more flexible.
>>>>>> The plan we're thinking of is to use the existing the  
>>>>>> ProdCatalog stylesheet field to change the stylesheet, and  
>>>>>> possible extend that to support multiple stylesheets. With this  
>>>>>> approach all you have to do to add a theme is add a hot-deploy  
>>>>>> component that contains your CSS and image files in a webapp,  
>>>>>> and some data file with the ProdCatalog records that would  
>>>>>> probably be the same as the main demo ProdCatalog and be  
>>>>>> attached to the same store and categories, but with a different  
>>>>>> stylesheet. In this way you could also have different sets of  
>>>>>> products though, which would allow you to easily do some cool  
>>>>>> demo catalogs/sites for different sets and types of products.
>>>>>> -David
>>>>>> On Jul 11, 2008, at 9:20 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>> At the last developers conference, I had suggested to David  
>>>>>>> Jones that we have a "CSS Style Sheet Shootout" - where  
>>>>>>> different OFBiz developers could submit their themes to Jira  
>>>>>>> and we could vote on them. The one with the most votes would  
>>>>>>> get committed to the project. At the time there was too much  
>>>>>>> embedded styling in the project - so it wouldn't work and,  
>>>>>>> consequently, nothing was done. Things are different now and  
>>>>>>> changing the style of the whole project is easier. So, I'm in  
>>>>>>> agreement with that aspect of this thread.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Where I have a problem with this thread has already been  
>>>>>>> mentioned - having multiple themes in the trunk will become a  
>>>>>>> support nightmare. My preference would be to have the  
>>>>>>> *capability* to switch themes built into the framework, but  
>>>>>>> only have one theme in the trunk. Anyone wanting to supply  
>>>>>>> additional themes could do so on their own. It could even  
>>>>>>> develop into a cottage industry.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ashish Vijaywargiya wrote:
>>>>>>>> +1
>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 4:21 AM, Jacques Le Roux <
>>>>>>>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Bruno, Ashish,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Having them in separated directories, why not introduce a  
>>>>>>>>> property in
>>>>>>>>> general.properties file (or somewhere else) to select the  
>>>>>>>>> theme at will,
>>>>>>>>> default being the one we use currently ?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> From: "Bruno Busco" <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ashish,
>>>>>>>>>> thank you for your comments.
>>>>>>>>>> Well, of course if the themes are taken from the gallery  
>>>>>>>>>> there should be a
>>>>>>>>>> information on the theme that tells you with which release  
>>>>>>>>>> of Ofbiz it can
>>>>>>>>>> be used (now we could go with the SVN rev until we have the  
>>>>>>>>>> next release).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> For the file overwritting we could think to have the theme  
>>>>>>>>>> in a special
>>>>>>>>>> folder (this is how many CMS do, for example Drupal).
>>>>>>>>>> So for example we could have:
>>>>>>>>>> /framework/images/webapp/images/themes/theme1/maincss.css
>>>>>>>>>> /framework/images/webapp/images/themes/theme2/maincss.css
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> the themesX folder should never be committed. And then have  
>>>>>>>>>> a UI that let
>>>>>>>>>> us
>>>>>>>>>> specify which theme between the availables must be used  
>>>>>>>>>> (this, as
>>>>>>>>>> suggested,
>>>>>>>>>> could be in the user preferences).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 2008/7/11 Ashish Vijaywargiya  
>>>>>>>>>> <[hidden email]>:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Sorry for writing again on this.
>>>>>>>>>>> But I see a loopwhole in this.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Suppose you are creating new maincss.css file.
>>>>>>>>>>> Someone has downloaded your file and kept your file in  
>>>>>>>>>>> images directory
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> removes the old one.
>>>>>>>>>>> Now if user take update of Ofbiz on regular basis or we  
>>>>>>>>>>> can say after
>>>>>>>>>>> certain duration of time.
>>>>>>>>>>> And if someone introduce a new class in Stylesheet file  
>>>>>>>>>>> and uses it
>>>>>>>>>>> extensively in some section so in this
>>>>>>>>>>> case your file(maincss.css created by you) might not be  
>>>>>>>>>>> having those new
>>>>>>>>>>> classes entries.
>>>>>>>>>>> So the layout will not be consistent.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> What do you think about it Bruno ?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> Ashish
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 1:49 AM, Ashish Vijaywargiya <
>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Bruno,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I like your idea.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ashish
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 1:37 AM, Bruno Busco <[hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi devs,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am writing a new maincss.css file and I will submit  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> when finished.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think that several other users/developers will write  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (or have
>>>>>>>>>>> already)
>>>>>>>>>>>>> their .css files.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since the graphical theme is something very subjective  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it will be
>>>>>>>>>>>>> difficult
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to agree with a unique theme and have it committed on SVN.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> So I propose to open a OFBiz Theme Gallery on confluence  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> where all
>>>>>>>>>>> users
>>>>>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>>>>>> upload their own theme with a little screenshot.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> All users could then browse the available theme,  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> download it and copy
>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>>> their ofbiz installation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The standard theme format to uploaded could be a folder  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that contains
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> maincss.css file and relative gif files.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you think about?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Many thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bruno
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>

[Adrian Crum]

I think you missed something. Or maybe I wasn't clear enough.

eCommerce would work exactly like you described, the only difference
being instead of configuring a catalog or store to use a stylesheet, you
configure it to use a theme. User selected themes aren't used in eCommerce.

On the back office side, the user can select a theme and it is persisted
in user settings.

Both eCommerce and the back office apps would share common theme
selection code. What they do with the themes is what's different.

Thinking about it more, it would be better to specify themes in
eCommerce instead of specifying stylesheets - since a theme might
require more than a stylesheet change.

-Adrian

David E Jones wrote:

>
> It depends on the requirements and what we want to design for each thing.
>
> For ecommerce the common requirement is to let the people running the
> store decide what it will look like, with possibly different L&F for
> different sets of products (ie different catalogs).
>
> Would (does?) anyone really want user selectable styling for ecommerce?
>
> On the backend it's different altogether. Those are the tools employees,
> contractors, etc use on a regular basis and it might be nice to allow
> them to change certain colors, fonts, etc... just like you would do with
> your desktop and various applications on it.
>
> Different requirements, different implementations and tools.
>
> -David
>
>
> On Jul 11, 2008, at 10:58 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>
>> Agreed. But do we want duplicate implementations?
>>
>> Maybe we can come up with a framework implementation that eCommerce
>> builds on. Let's say the framework has a system of selecting themes.
>> Then in eCommerce, instead of specifying a stylesheet in the
>> ProdCatalog, you could specify a theme. The framework theme-handling
>> code would then use the appropriate style sheet.
>>
>> What do you think?
>>
>> -Adrian
>>
>> David E Jones wrote:
>>> The ProdCatalog thingy is really only for the ecommerce site. For
>>> manager application styling and preferences it would be serious hack...
>>> -David
>>> On Jul 11, 2008, at 9:58 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>> Well, the system we implemented here is set up with an XML file that
>>>> has a selection of themes and where their files can be found. The
>>>> XML file is also used to present the user with a menu of styles to
>>>> choose from. Their selection is kept in user preferences.
>>>>
>>>> I like your idea better though. Maybe the user preference could
>>>> contain the primary key of a ProdCatalog record. The new MyPage
>>>> component could have an area that displays all ProdCatalog records
>>>> for the user to choose from.
>>>>
>>>> -Adrian
>>>>
>>>> David E Jones wrote:
>>>>> Good question/point.... We're mainly just looking at skinning the
>>>>> ecommerce application, ie the OOTB templates.
>>>>> Something similar for the internal apps would be interesting... are
>>>>> you thinking of something like a personal preference? For that we
>>>>> could do something like specify or upload your own stylesheet (that
>>>>> would override any styles desired in the default one), or perhaps
>>>>> even get fancier and allow people to specify certain things that
>>>>> would go into a dynamically generated stylesheet of some sort to
>>>>> override the main stylesheet...
>>>>> -David
>>>>> On Jul 11, 2008, at 9:47 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>> David,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's great news! Will there also be a way to select the theme
>>>>>> for the back office applications?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>
>>>>>> David E Jones wrote:
>>>>>>> This is really much easier than it seems, and actually a couple
>>>>>>> of weeks ago I got a couple of people at Hotwax started working
>>>>>>> on some themes and some HTML/CSS enhancements to make the
>>>>>>> skinning more flexible.
>>>>>>> The plan we're thinking of is to use the existing the ProdCatalog
>>>>>>> stylesheet field to change the stylesheet, and possible extend
>>>>>>> that to support multiple stylesheets. With this approach all you
>>>>>>> have to do to add a theme is add a hot-deploy component that
>>>>>>> contains your CSS and image files in a webapp, and some data file
>>>>>>> with the ProdCatalog records that would probably be the same as
>>>>>>> the main demo ProdCatalog and be attached to the same store and
>>>>>>> categories, but with a different stylesheet. In this way you
>>>>>>> could also have different sets of products though, which would
>>>>>>> allow you to easily do some cool demo catalogs/sites for
>>>>>>> different sets and types of products.
>>>>>>> -David
>>>>>>> On Jul 11, 2008, at 9:20 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>>> At the last developers conference, I had suggested to David
>>>>>>>> Jones that we have a "CSS Style Sheet Shootout" - where
>>>>>>>> different OFBiz developers could submit their themes to Jira and
>>>>>>>> we could vote on them. The one with the most votes would get
>>>>>>>> committed to the project. At the time there was too much
>>>>>>>> embedded styling in the project - so it wouldn't work and,
>>>>>>>> consequently, nothing was done. Things are different now and
>>>>>>>> changing the style of the whole project is easier. So, I'm in
>>>>>>>> agreement with that aspect of this thread.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Where I have a problem with this thread has already been
>>>>>>>> mentioned - having multiple themes in the trunk will become a
>>>>>>>> support nightmare. My preference would be to have the
>>>>>>>> *capability* to switch themes built into the framework, but only
>>>>>>>> have one theme in the trunk. Anyone wanting to supply additional
>>>>>>>> themes could do so on their own. It could even develop into a
>>>>>>>> cottage industry.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ashish Vijaywargiya wrote:
>>>>>>>>> +1
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 4:21 AM, Jacques Le Roux <
>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Bruno, Ashish,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Having them in separated directories, why not introduce a
>>>>>>>>>> property in
>>>>>>>>>> general.properties file (or somewhere else) to select the
>>>>>>>>>> theme at will,
>>>>>>>>>> default being the one we use currently ?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> From: "Bruno Busco" <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ashish,
>>>>>>>>>>> thank you for your comments.
>>>>>>>>>>> Well, of course if the themes are taken from the gallery
>>>>>>>>>>> there should be a
>>>>>>>>>>> information on the theme that tells you with which release of
>>>>>>>>>>> Ofbiz it can
>>>>>>>>>>> be used (now we could go with the SVN rev until we have the
>>>>>>>>>>> next release).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> For the file overwritting we could think to have the theme in
>>>>>>>>>>> a special
>>>>>>>>>>> folder (this is how many CMS do, for example Drupal).
>>>>>>>>>>> So for example we could have:
>>>>>>>>>>> /framework/images/webapp/images/themes/theme1/maincss.css
>>>>>>>>>>> /framework/images/webapp/images/themes/theme2/maincss.css
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> the themesX folder should never be committed. And then have a
>>>>>>>>>>> UI that let
>>>>>>>>>>> us
>>>>>>>>>>> specify which theme between the availables must be used
>>>>>>>>>>> (this, as
>>>>>>>>>>> suggested,
>>>>>>>>>>> could be in the user preferences).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 2008/7/11 Ashish Vijaywargiya <[hidden email]>:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry for writing again on this.
>>>>>>>>>>>> But I see a loopwhole in this.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Suppose you are creating new maincss.css file.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Someone has downloaded your file and kept your file in
>>>>>>>>>>>> images directory
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> removes the old one.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Now if user take update of Ofbiz on regular basis or we can
>>>>>>>>>>>> say after
>>>>>>>>>>>> certain duration of time.
>>>>>>>>>>>> And if someone introduce a new class in Stylesheet file and
>>>>>>>>>>>> uses it
>>>>>>>>>>>> extensively in some section so in this
>>>>>>>>>>>> case your file(maincss.css created by you) might not be
>>>>>>>>>>>> having those new
>>>>>>>>>>>> classes entries.
>>>>>>>>>>>> So the layout will not be consistent.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you think about it Bruno ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ashish
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 1:49 AM, Ashish Vijaywargiya <
>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bruno,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I like your idea.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ashish
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 1:37 AM, Bruno Busco
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi devs,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am writing a new maincss.css file and I will submit when
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> finished.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think that several other users/developers will write (or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>> already)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their .css files.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since the graphical theme is something very subjective it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> difficult
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to agree with a unique theme and have it committed on SVN.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So I propose to open a OFBiz Theme Gallery on confluence
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where all
>>>>>>>>>>>> users
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> upload their own theme with a little screenshot.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All users could then browse the available theme, download
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it and copy
>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their ofbiz installation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The standard theme format to uploaded could be a folder
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that contains
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maincss.css file and relative gif files.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you think about?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Many thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bruno
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
>

[Jacques Le Roux]

From: "David E Jones" <[hidden email]>
>
> It depends on the requirements and what we want to design for each  
> thing.
>
> For ecommerce the common requirement is to let the people running the  
> store decide what it will look like, with possibly different L&F for  
> different sets of products (ie different catalogs).
>
> Would (does?) anyone really want user selectable styling for ecommerce?

It could be an option only for us, to demonstrate OFBiz power :D

Jacques
 

> On the backend it's different altogether. Those are the tools  
> employees, contractors, etc use on a regular basis and it might be  
> nice to allow them to change certain colors, fonts, etc... just like  
> you would do with your desktop and various applications on it.
>
> Different requirements, different implementations and tools.
>
> -David
>
>
> On Jul 11, 2008, at 10:58 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>
>> Agreed. But do we want duplicate implementations?
>>
>> Maybe we can come up with a framework implementation that eCommerce  
>> builds on. Let's say the framework has a system of selecting themes.  
>> Then in eCommerce, instead of specifying a stylesheet in the  
>> ProdCatalog, you could specify a theme. The framework theme-handling  
>> code would then use the appropriate style sheet.
>>
>> What do you think?
>>
>> -Adrian
>>
>> David E Jones wrote:
>>> The ProdCatalog thingy is really only for the ecommerce site. For  
>>> manager application styling and preferences it would be serious  
>>> hack...
>>> -David
>>> On Jul 11, 2008, at 9:58 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>> Well, the system we implemented here is set up with an XML file  
>>>> that has a selection of themes and where their files can be found.  
>>>> The XML file is also used to present the user with a menu of  
>>>> styles to choose from. Their selection is kept in user preferences.
>>>>
>>>> I like your idea better though. Maybe the user preference could  
>>>> contain the primary key of a ProdCatalog record. The new MyPage  
>>>> component could have an area that displays all ProdCatalog records  
>>>> for the user to choose from.
>>>>
>>>> -Adrian
>>>>
>>>> David E Jones wrote:
>>>>> Good question/point.... We're mainly just looking at skinning the  
>>>>> ecommerce application, ie the OOTB templates.
>>>>> Something similar for the internal apps would be interesting...  
>>>>> are you thinking of something like a personal preference? For  
>>>>> that we could do something like specify or upload your own  
>>>>> stylesheet (that would override any styles desired in the default  
>>>>> one), or perhaps even get fancier and allow people to specify  
>>>>> certain things that would go into a dynamically generated  
>>>>> stylesheet of some sort to override the main stylesheet...
>>>>> -David
>>>>> On Jul 11, 2008, at 9:47 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>> David,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's great news! Will there also be a way to select the theme  
>>>>>> for the back office applications?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>
>>>>>> David E Jones wrote:
>>>>>>> This is really much easier than it seems, and actually a couple  
>>>>>>> of weeks ago I got a couple of people at Hotwax started working  
>>>>>>> on some themes and some HTML/CSS enhancements to make the  
>>>>>>> skinning more flexible.
>>>>>>> The plan we're thinking of is to use the existing the  
>>>>>>> ProdCatalog stylesheet field to change the stylesheet, and  
>>>>>>> possible extend that to support multiple stylesheets. With this  
>>>>>>> approach all you have to do to add a theme is add a hot-deploy  
>>>>>>> component that contains your CSS and image files in a webapp,  
>>>>>>> and some data file with the ProdCatalog records that would  
>>>>>>> probably be the same as the main demo ProdCatalog and be  
>>>>>>> attached to the same store and categories, but with a different  
>>>>>>> stylesheet. In this way you could also have different sets of  
>>>>>>> products though, which would allow you to easily do some cool  
>>>>>>> demo catalogs/sites for different sets and types of products.
>>>>>>> -David
>>>>>>> On Jul 11, 2008, at 9:20 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>>> At the last developers conference, I had suggested to David  
>>>>>>>> Jones that we have a "CSS Style Sheet Shootout" - where  
>>>>>>>> different OFBiz developers could submit their themes to Jira  
>>>>>>>> and we could vote on them. The one with the most votes would  
>>>>>>>> get committed to the project. At the time there was too much  
>>>>>>>> embedded styling in the project - so it wouldn't work and,  
>>>>>>>> consequently, nothing was done. Things are different now and  
>>>>>>>> changing the style of the whole project is easier. So, I'm in  
>>>>>>>> agreement with that aspect of this thread.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Where I have a problem with this thread has already been  
>>>>>>>> mentioned - having multiple themes in the trunk will become a  
>>>>>>>> support nightmare. My preference would be to have the  
>>>>>>>> *capability* to switch themes built into the framework, but  
>>>>>>>> only have one theme in the trunk. Anyone wanting to supply  
>>>>>>>> additional themes could do so on their own. It could even  
>>>>>>>> develop into a cottage industry.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ashish Vijaywargiya wrote:
>>>>>>>>> +1
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 4:21 AM, Jacques Le Roux <
>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Bruno, Ashish,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Having them in separated directories, why not introduce a  
>>>>>>>>>> property in
>>>>>>>>>> general.properties file (or somewhere else) to select the  
>>>>>>>>>> theme at will,
>>>>>>>>>> default being the one we use currently ?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> From: "Bruno Busco" <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ashish,
>>>>>>>>>>> thank you for your comments.
>>>>>>>>>>> Well, of course if the themes are taken from the gallery  
>>>>>>>>>>> there should be a
>>>>>>>>>>> information on the theme that tells you with which release  
>>>>>>>>>>> of Ofbiz it can
>>>>>>>>>>> be used (now we could go with the SVN rev until we have the  
>>>>>>>>>>> next release).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> For the file overwritting we could think to have the theme  
>>>>>>>>>>> in a special
>>>>>>>>>>> folder (this is how many CMS do, for example Drupal).
>>>>>>>>>>> So for example we could have:
>>>>>>>>>>> /framework/images/webapp/images/themes/theme1/maincss.css
>>>>>>>>>>> /framework/images/webapp/images/themes/theme2/maincss.css
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> the themesX folder should never be committed. And then have  
>>>>>>>>>>> a UI that let
>>>>>>>>>>> us
>>>>>>>>>>> specify which theme between the availables must be used  
>>>>>>>>>>> (this, as
>>>>>>>>>>> suggested,
>>>>>>>>>>> could be in the user preferences).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 2008/7/11 Ashish Vijaywargiya  
>>>>>>>>>>> <[hidden email]>:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry for writing again on this.
>>>>>>>>>>>> But I see a loopwhole in this.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Suppose you are creating new maincss.css file.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Someone has downloaded your file and kept your file in  
>>>>>>>>>>>> images directory
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> removes the old one.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Now if user take update of Ofbiz on regular basis or we  
>>>>>>>>>>>> can say after
>>>>>>>>>>>> certain duration of time.
>>>>>>>>>>>> And if someone introduce a new class in Stylesheet file  
>>>>>>>>>>>> and uses it
>>>>>>>>>>>> extensively in some section so in this
>>>>>>>>>>>> case your file(maincss.css created by you) might not be  
>>>>>>>>>>>> having those new
>>>>>>>>>>>> classes entries.
>>>>>>>>>>>> So the layout will not be consistent.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you think about it Bruno ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ashish
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 1:49 AM, Ashish Vijaywargiya <
>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bruno,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I like your idea.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ashish
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 1:37 AM, Bruno Busco <[hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi devs,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am writing a new maincss.css file and I will submit  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when finished.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think that several other users/developers will write  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (or have
>>>>>>>>>>>> already)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their .css files.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since the graphical theme is something very subjective  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it will be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> difficult
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to agree with a unique theme and have it committed on SVN.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So I propose to open a OFBiz Theme Gallery on confluence  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where all
>>>>>>>>>>>> users
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> upload their own theme with a little screenshot.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All users could then browse the available theme,  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> download it and copy
>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their ofbiz installation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The standard theme format to uploaded could be a folder  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that contains
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maincss.css file and relative gif files.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you think about?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Many thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bruno
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>

[Bruno Busco]

Yes more than a stylesheet!

A theme should be a folder containing one or more css files and all the gif,
jpg used.
I have used sometime phptemplate and it is provided of a powerfull way to
override php functions by simply putting in the theme folder a php file with
a certain name where certain named functions where defined.
This causes the phptemplate engine to override the redeclared php function
and so let a theme change also the HTML part (not only the CSS).
I do not know if this is possible with freemarker but would be the best IMO.


2008/7/11 Adrian Crum <[hidden email]>:

> I think you missed something. Or maybe I wasn't clear enough.
>
> eCommerce would work exactly like you described, the only difference being
> instead of configuring a catalog or store to use a stylesheet, you configure
> it to use a theme. User selected themes aren't used in eCommerce.
>
> On the back office side, the user can select a theme and it is persisted in
> user settings.
>
> Both eCommerce and the back office apps would share common theme selection
> code. What they do with the themes is what's different.
>
> Thinking about it more, it would be better to specify themes in eCommerce
> instead of specifying stylesheets - since a theme might require more than a
> stylesheet change.
>
>
> -Adrian
>
> David E Jones wrote:
>
>>
>> It depends on the requirements and what we want to design for each thing.
>>
>> For ecommerce the common requirement is to let the people running the
>> store decide what it will look like, with possibly different L&F for
>> different sets of products (ie different catalogs).
>>
>> Would (does?) anyone really want user selectable styling for ecommerce?
>>
>> On the backend it's different altogether. Those are the tools employees,
>> contractors, etc use on a regular basis and it might be nice to allow them
>> to change certain colors, fonts, etc... just like you would do with your
>> desktop and various applications on it.
>>
>> Different requirements, different implementations and tools.
>>
>> -David
>>
>>
>> On Jul 11, 2008, at 10:58 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>
>>  Agreed. But do we want duplicate implementations?
>>>
>>> Maybe we can come up with a framework implementation that eCommerce
>>> builds on. Let's say the framework has a system of selecting themes. Then in
>>> eCommerce, instead of specifying a stylesheet in the ProdCatalog, you could
>>> specify a theme. The framework theme-handling code would then use the
>>> appropriate style sheet.
>>>
>>> What do you think?
>>>
>>> -Adrian
>>>
>>> David E Jones wrote:
>>>
>>>> The ProdCatalog thingy is really only for the ecommerce site. For
>>>> manager application styling and preferences it would be serious hack...
>>>> -David
>>>> On Jul 11, 2008, at 9:58 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Well, the system we implemented here is set up with an XML file that
>>>>> has a selection of themes and where their files can be found. The XML file
>>>>> is also used to present the user with a menu of styles to choose from. Their
>>>>> selection is kept in user preferences.
>>>>>
>>>>> I like your idea better though. Maybe the user preference could contain
>>>>> the primary key of a ProdCatalog record. The new MyPage component could have
>>>>> an area that displays all ProdCatalog records for the user to choose from.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>
>>>>> David E Jones wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Good question/point.... We're mainly just looking at skinning the
>>>>>> ecommerce application, ie the OOTB templates.
>>>>>> Something similar for the internal apps would be interesting... are
>>>>>> you thinking of something like a personal preference? For that we could do
>>>>>> something like specify or upload your own stylesheet (that would override
>>>>>> any styles desired in the default one), or perhaps even get fancier and
>>>>>> allow people to specify certain things that would go into a dynamically
>>>>>> generated stylesheet of some sort to override the main stylesheet...
>>>>>> -David
>>>>>> On Jul 11, 2008, at 9:47 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> David,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's great news! Will there also be a way to select the theme for
>>>>>>> the back office applications?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> David E Jones wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This is really much easier than it seems, and actually a couple of
>>>>>>>> weeks ago I got a couple of people at Hotwax started working on some themes
>>>>>>>> and some HTML/CSS enhancements to make the skinning more flexible.
>>>>>>>> The plan we're thinking of is to use the existing the ProdCatalog
>>>>>>>> stylesheet field to change the stylesheet, and possible extend that to
>>>>>>>> support multiple stylesheets. With this approach all you have to do to add a
>>>>>>>> theme is add a hot-deploy component that contains your CSS and image files
>>>>>>>> in a webapp, and some data file with the ProdCatalog records that would
>>>>>>>> probably be the same as the main demo ProdCatalog and be attached to the
>>>>>>>> same store and categories, but with a different stylesheet. In this way you
>>>>>>>> could also have different sets of products though, which would allow you to
>>>>>>>> easily do some cool demo catalogs/sites for different sets and types of
>>>>>>>> products.
>>>>>>>> -David
>>>>>>>> On Jul 11, 2008, at 9:20 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> At the last developers conference, I had suggested to David Jones
>>>>>>>>> that we have a "CSS Style Sheet Shootout" - where different OFBiz developers
>>>>>>>>> could submit their themes to Jira and we could vote on them. The one with
>>>>>>>>> the most votes would get committed to the project. At the time there was too
>>>>>>>>> much embedded styling in the project - so it wouldn't work and,
>>>>>>>>> consequently, nothing was done. Things are different now and changing the
>>>>>>>>> style of the whole project is easier. So, I'm in agreement with that aspect
>>>>>>>>> of this thread.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Where I have a problem with this thread has already been mentioned
>>>>>>>>> - having multiple themes in the trunk will become a support nightmare. My
>>>>>>>>> preference would be to have the *capability* to switch themes built into the
>>>>>>>>> framework, but only have one theme in the trunk. Anyone wanting to supply
>>>>>>>>> additional themes could do so on their own. It could even develop into a
>>>>>>>>> cottage industry.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ashish Vijaywargiya wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> +1
>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 4:21 AM, Jacques Le Roux <
>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Bruno, Ashish,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Having them in separated directories, why not introduce a
>>>>>>>>>>> property in
>>>>>>>>>>> general.properties file (or somewhere else) to select the theme
>>>>>>>>>>> at will,
>>>>>>>>>>> default being the one we use currently ?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Bruno Busco" <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Ashish,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> thank you for your comments.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, of course if the themes are taken from the gallery there
>>>>>>>>>>>> should be a
>>>>>>>>>>>> information on the theme that tells you with which release of
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ofbiz it can
>>>>>>>>>>>> be used (now we could go with the SVN rev until we have the next
>>>>>>>>>>>> release).
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> For the file overwritting we could think to have the theme in a
>>>>>>>>>>>> special
>>>>>>>>>>>> folder (this is how many CMS do, for example Drupal).
>>>>>>>>>>>> So for example we could have:
>>>>>>>>>>>> /framework/images/webapp/images/themes/theme1/maincss.css
>>>>>>>>>>>> /framework/images/webapp/images/themes/theme2/maincss.css
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> the themesX folder should never be committed. And then have a UI
>>>>>>>>>>>> that let
>>>>>>>>>>>> us
>>>>>>>>>>>> specify which theme between the availables must be used (this,
>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>> suggested,
>>>>>>>>>>>> could be in the user preferences).
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 2008/7/11 Ashish Vijaywargiya <[hidden email]>:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry for writing again on this.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> But I see a loopwhole in this.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Suppose you are creating new maincss.css file.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Someone has downloaded your file and kept your file in images
>>>>>>>>>>>>> directory
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> removes the old one.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now if user take update of Ofbiz on regular basis or we can say
>>>>>>>>>>>>> after
>>>>>>>>>>>>> certain duration of time.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> And if someone introduce a new class in Stylesheet file and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> uses it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> extensively in some section so in this
>>>>>>>>>>>>> case your file(maincss.css created by you) might not be having
>>>>>>>>>>>>> those new
>>>>>>>>>>>>> classes entries.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> So the layout will not be consistent.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you think about it Bruno ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ashish
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 1:49 AM, Ashish Vijaywargiya <
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Bruno,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I like your idea.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ashish
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 1:37 AM, Bruno Busco <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Hi devs,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am writing a new maincss.css file and I will submit when
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> finished.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think that several other users/developers will write (or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> already)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their .css files.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since the graphical theme is something very subjective it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> difficult
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to agree with a unique theme and have it committed on SVN.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So I propose to open a OFBiz Theme Gallery on confluence
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> users
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> upload their own theme with a little screenshot.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All users could then browse the available theme, download it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and copy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their ofbiz installation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The standard theme format to uploaded could be a folder that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contains
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maincss.css file and relative gif files.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you think about?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Many thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bruno
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>
>>