[PROPOSITION] Demos: replace old by trunk framework only

[Jacques Le Roux]

Hi,

The proposition is in the title.

With the changes I'm introducing with OFBIZ-9241 there will few differences in UI (and presence of js files) between the framework only and the
framework+plugins

I must add:

  * since the old is often no longer supported and a release of it is always available (today R13) for users. I think removing the old demo is maybe
    not a big deal.
  * I found several cases where people, new to OFBiz, considered OFBiz as what we call the framework, and were considering the plugins as optional.

What do you think?

Jacques

[taher]

Makes sense. However, i note reading in the JIRA that "we can simply hide
the button when the ecommerce component is not present". That sounds like
logic that points outwards which is a bad design IMHO.

Anyway, I think it is a reasonable step to take. +1

On Mon, Aug 20, 2018, 5:31 PM Jacques Le Roux <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> The proposition is in the title.
>
> With the changes I'm introducing with OFBIZ-9241 there will few
> differences in UI (and presence of js files) between the framework only and
> the
> framework+plugins
>
> I must add:
>
>   * since the old is often no longer supported and a release of it is
> always available (today R13) for users. I think removing the old demo is
> maybe
>     not a big deal.
>   * I found several cases where people, new to OFBiz, considered OFBiz as
> what we call the framework, and were considering the plugins as optional.
>
> What do you think?
>
> Jacques
>
>

[Jacques Le Roux]

Le 20/08/2018 à 16:53, Taher Alkhateeb a écrit :
> Makes sense. However, i note reading in the JIRA that "we can simply hide
> the button when the ecommerce component is not present". That sounds like
> logic that points outwards which is a bad design IMHO.
I could not find a better way yet, I'm all ears for ideas.

> Anyway, I think it is a reasonable step to take. +1
I attached a patch for today at OFBIZ-9241

Jacques

>
> On Mon, Aug 20, 2018, 5:31 PM Jacques Le Roux <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> The proposition is in the title.
>>
>> With the changes I'm introducing with OFBIZ-9241 there will few
>> differences in UI (and presence of js files) between the framework only and
>> the
>> framework+plugins
>>
>> I must add:
>>
>>    * since the old is often no longer supported and a release of it is
>> always available (today R13) for users. I think removing the old demo is
>> maybe
>>      not a big deal.
>>    * I found several cases where people, new to OFBiz, considered OFBiz as
>> what we call the framework, and were considering the plugins as optional.
>>
>> What do you think?
>>
>> Jacques
>>
>>

[Nicolas Malin-2]

I agree. +1


On 20/08/2018 19:01, Jacques Le Roux wrote:

> Le 20/08/2018 à 16:53, Taher Alkhateeb a écrit :
>> Makes sense. However, i note reading in the JIRA that "we can simply
>> hide
>> the button when the ecommerce component is not present". That sounds
>> like
>> logic that points outwards which is a bad design IMHO.
> I could not find a better way yet, I'm all ears for ideas.
>
>> Anyway, I think it is a reasonable step to take. +1
> I attached a patch for today at OFBIZ-9241
>
> Jacques
>
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 20, 2018, 5:31 PM Jacques Le Roux
>> <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> The proposition is in the title.
>>>
>>> With the changes I'm introducing with OFBIZ-9241 there will few
>>> differences in UI (and presence of js files) between the framework
>>> only and
>>> the
>>> framework+plugins
>>>
>>> I must add:
>>>
>>>    * since the old is often no longer supported and a release of it is
>>> always available (today R13) for users. I think removing the old
>>> demo is
>>> maybe
>>>      not a big deal.
>>>    * I found several cases where people, new to OFBiz, considered
>>> OFBiz as
>>> what we call the framework, and were considering the plugins as
>>> optional.
>>>
>>> What do you think?
>>>
>>> Jacques
>>>
>>>
>
>

[taher]

Simple, don't put any logic that points outwards from the framework. That
is sort of why we split repositories in the first place.

On Mon, Aug 20, 2018, 8:00 PM Jacques Le Roux <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Le 20/08/2018 à 16:53, Taher Alkhateeb a écrit :
> > Makes sense. However, i note reading in the JIRA that "we can simply hide
> > the button when the ecommerce component is not present". That sounds like
> > logic that points outwards which is a bad design IMHO.
> I could not find a better way yet, I'm all ears for ideas.
>
> > Anyway, I think it is a reasonable step to take. +1
> I attached a patch for today at OFBIZ-9241
>
> Jacques
>
> >
> > On Mon, Aug 20, 2018, 5:31 PM Jacques Le Roux <
> [hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> The proposition is in the title.
> >>
> >> With the changes I'm introducing with OFBIZ-9241 there will few
> >> differences in UI (and presence of js files) between the framework only
> and
> >> the
> >> framework+plugins
> >>
> >> I must add:
> >>
> >>    * since the old is often no longer supported and a release of it is
> >> always available (today R13) for users. I think removing the old demo is
> >> maybe
> >>      not a big deal.
> >>    * I found several cases where people, new to OFBiz, considered OFBiz
> as
> >> what we call the framework, and were considering the plugins as
> optional.
> >>
> >> What do you think?
> >>
> >> Jacques
> >>
> >>
>
>

[Jacques Le Roux]

Of course, but I like to be able to get from the backend to the frontend when it's possible.
I don't see any troubles keeping them once it's handled that way, but theoretical ones .

Of course if the community prefers to remove them it's far easier and was what I wanted to do initially before having this idea of hiding links

Jacques


Le 21/08/2018 à 01:03, Taher Alkhateeb a écrit :

> Simple, don't put any logic that points outwards from the framework. That
> is sort of why we split repositories in the first place.
>
> On Mon, Aug 20, 2018, 8:00 PM Jacques Le Roux <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> Le 20/08/2018 à 16:53, Taher Alkhateeb a écrit :
>>> Makes sense. However, i note reading in the JIRA that "we can simply hide
>>> the button when the ecommerce component is not present". That sounds like
>>> logic that points outwards which is a bad design IMHO.
>> I could not find a better way yet, I'm all ears for ideas.
>>
>>> Anyway, I think it is a reasonable step to take. +1
>> I attached a patch for today at OFBIZ-9241
>>
>> Jacques
>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 20, 2018, 5:31 PM Jacques Le Roux <
>> [hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> The proposition is in the title.
>>>>
>>>> With the changes I'm introducing with OFBIZ-9241 there will few
>>>> differences in UI (and presence of js files) between the framework only
>> and
>>>> the
>>>> framework+plugins
>>>>
>>>> I must add:
>>>>
>>>>     * since the old is often no longer supported and a release of it is
>>>> always available (today R13) for users. I think removing the old demo is
>>>> maybe
>>>>       not a big deal.
>>>>     * I found several cases where people, new to OFBiz, considered OFBiz
>> as
>>>> what we call the framework, and were considering the plugins as
>> optional.
>>>> What do you think?
>>>>
>>>> Jacques
>>>>
>>>>
>>

[Michael Brohl-3]

Hi Jacques,

for my comments on
https://issues.apache.org/jira/projects/OFBIZ/issues/OFBIZ-9241 see Jira.

For the proposal, I think we should provide the demo with the framwork +
plugins. It shows the portential of the whole ecosystem and I see no
reason why we should not make it available?

Regards,

Michael Brohl
ecomify GmbH
www.ecomify.de


Am 20.08.18 um 16:31 schrieb Jacques Le Roux:

> Hi,
>
> The proposition is in the title.
>
> With the changes I'm introducing with OFBIZ-9241 there will few
> differences in UI (and presence of js files) between the framework
> only and the framework+plugins
>
> I must add:
>
>  * since the old is often no longer supported and a release of it is
> always available (today R13) for users. I think removing the old demo
> is maybe
>    not a big deal.
>  * I found several cases where people, new to OFBiz, considered OFBiz
> as what we call the framework, and were considering the plugins as
> optional.
>
> What do you think?
>
> Jacques
>
>

[Michael Brohl-3]

We should neither simply remove those links nor should we have anything
hard coded.

Let's look for a smarter solution. No need to hurry, better take some
time to implement something sustainable.

Regards,

Michael Brohl
ecomify GmbH
www.ecomify.de


Am 21.08.18 um 07:00 schrieb Jacques Le Roux:

> Of course, but I like to be able to get from the backend to the
> frontend when it's possible.
> I don't see any troubles keeping them once it's handled that way, but
> theoretical ones .
>
> Of course if the community prefers to remove them it's far easier and
> was what I wanted to do initially before having this idea of hiding links
>
> Jacques
>
>
> Le 21/08/2018 à 01:03, Taher Alkhateeb a écrit :
>> Simple, don't put any logic that points outwards from the framework.
>> That
>> is sort of why we split repositories in the first place.
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 20, 2018, 8:00 PM Jacques Le Roux
>> <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Le 20/08/2018 à 16:53, Taher Alkhateeb a écrit :
>>>> Makes sense. However, i note reading in the JIRA that "we can
>>>> simply hide
>>>> the button when the ecommerce component is not present". That
>>>> sounds like
>>>> logic that points outwards which is a bad design IMHO.
>>> I could not find a better way yet, I'm all ears for ideas.
>>>
>>>> Anyway, I think it is a reasonable step to take. +1
>>> I attached a patch for today at OFBIZ-9241
>>>
>>> Jacques
>>>
>>>> On Mon, Aug 20, 2018, 5:31 PM Jacques Le Roux <
>>> [hidden email]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> The proposition is in the title.
>>>>>
>>>>> With the changes I'm introducing with OFBIZ-9241 there will few
>>>>> differences in UI (and presence of js files) between the framework
>>>>> only
>>> and
>>>>> the
>>>>> framework+plugins
>>>>>
>>>>> I must add:
>>>>>
>>>>>     * since the old is often no longer supported and a release of
>>>>> it is
>>>>> always available (today R13) for users. I think removing the old
>>>>> demo is
>>>>> maybe
>>>>>       not a big deal.
>>>>>     * I found several cases where people, new to OFBiz, considered
>>>>> OFBiz
>>> as
>>>>> what we call the framework, and were considering the plugins as
>>> optional.
>>>>> What do you think?
>>>>>
>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>

[Jacques Le Roux]

See my answer in the Jira, we can't tolerate NPEs, they are already there for too long

Being smart is cool, being smart and clean is better ;)

Jacques


Le 21/08/2018 à 08:57, Michael Brohl a écrit :

> We should neither simply remove those links nor should we have anything hard coded.
>
> Let's look for a smarter solution. No need to hurry, better take some time to implement something sustainable.
>
> Regards,
>
> Michael Brohl
> ecomify GmbH
> www.ecomify.de
>
>
> Am 21.08.18 um 07:00 schrieb Jacques Le Roux:
>> Of course, but I like to be able to get from the backend to the frontend when it's possible.
>> I don't see any troubles keeping them once it's handled that way, but theoretical ones .
>>
>> Of course if the community prefers to remove them it's far easier and was what I wanted to do initially before having this idea of hiding links
>>
>> Jacques
>>
>>
>> Le 21/08/2018 à 01:03, Taher Alkhateeb a écrit :
>>> Simple, don't put any logic that points outwards from the framework. That
>>> is sort of why we split repositories in the first place.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 20, 2018, 8:00 PM Jacques Le Roux <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Le 20/08/2018 à 16:53, Taher Alkhateeb a écrit :
>>>>> Makes sense. However, i note reading in the JIRA that "we can simply hide
>>>>> the button when the ecommerce component is not present". That sounds like
>>>>> logic that points outwards which is a bad design IMHO.
>>>> I could not find a better way yet, I'm all ears for ideas.
>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, I think it is a reasonable step to take. +1
>>>> I attached a patch for today at OFBIZ-9241
>>>>
>>>> Jacques
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Aug 20, 2018, 5:31 PM Jacques Le Roux <
>>>> [hidden email]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The proposition is in the title.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> With the changes I'm introducing with OFBIZ-9241 there will few
>>>>>> differences in UI (and presence of js files) between the framework only
>>>> and
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> framework+plugins
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I must add:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     * since the old is often no longer supported and a release of it is
>>>>>> always available (today R13) for users. I think removing the old demo is
>>>>>> maybe
>>>>>>       not a big deal.
>>>>>>     * I found several cases where people, new to OFBiz, considered OFBiz
>>>> as
>>>>>> what we call the framework, and were considering the plugins as
>>>> optional.
>>>>>> What do you think?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>
>
>

[taher]

Again, hiding is not a solution and is correcting an error with another
error.

-1

On Tue, Aug 21, 2018, 10:37 AM Jacques Le Roux <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> See my answer in the Jira, we can't tolerate NPEs, they are already there
> for too long
>
> Being smart is cool, being smart and clean is better ;)
>
> Jacques
>
>
> Le 21/08/2018 à 08:57, Michael Brohl a écrit :
> > We should neither simply remove those links nor should we have anything
> hard coded.
> >
> > Let's look for a smarter solution. No need to hurry, better take some
> time to implement something sustainable.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Michael Brohl
> > ecomify GmbH
> > www.ecomify.de
> >
> >
> > Am 21.08.18 um 07:00 schrieb Jacques Le Roux:
> >> Of course, but I like to be able to get from the backend to the
> frontend when it's possible.
> >> I don't see any troubles keeping them once it's handled that way, but
> theoretical ones .
> >>
> >> Of course if the community prefers to remove them it's far easier and
> was what I wanted to do initially before having this idea of hiding links
> >>
> >> Jacques
> >>
> >>
> >> Le 21/08/2018 à 01:03, Taher Alkhateeb a écrit :
> >>> Simple, don't put any logic that points outwards from the framework.
> That
> >>> is sort of why we split repositories in the first place.
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Aug 20, 2018, 8:00 PM Jacques Le Roux <
> [hidden email]>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Le 20/08/2018 à 16:53, Taher Alkhateeb a écrit :
> >>>>> Makes sense. However, i note reading in the JIRA that "we can simply
> hide
> >>>>> the button when the ecommerce component is not present". That sounds
> like
> >>>>> logic that points outwards which is a bad design IMHO.
> >>>> I could not find a better way yet, I'm all ears for ideas.
> >>>>
> >>>>> Anyway, I think it is a reasonable step to take. +1
> >>>> I attached a patch for today at OFBIZ-9241
> >>>>
> >>>> Jacques
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Mon, Aug 20, 2018, 5:31 PM Jacques Le Roux <
> >>>> [hidden email]>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Hi,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The proposition is in the title.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> With the changes I'm introducing with OFBIZ-9241 there will few
> >>>>>> differences in UI (and presence of js files) between the framework
> only
> >>>> and
> >>>>>> the
> >>>>>> framework+plugins
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I must add:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>     * since the old is often no longer supported and a release of
> it is
> >>>>>> always available (today R13) for users. I think removing the old
> demo is
> >>>>>> maybe
> >>>>>>       not a big deal.
> >>>>>>     * I found several cases where people, new to OFBiz, considered
> OFBiz
> >>>> as
> >>>>>> what we call the framework, and were considering the plugins as
> >>>> optional.
> >>>>>> What do you think?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Jacques
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>

[Jacques Le Roux]

OK, that your and Michael's opinions. So you prefer NPEs in code than hiding them when necessary?

What others think?

Jacques


Le 21/08/2018 à 09:45, Taher Alkhateeb a écrit :

> Again, hiding is not a solution and is correcting an error with another
> error.
>
> -1
>
> On Tue, Aug 21, 2018, 10:37 AM Jacques Le Roux <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> See my answer in the Jira, we can't tolerate NPEs, they are already there
>> for too long
>>
>> Being smart is cool, being smart and clean is better ;)
>>
>> Jacques
>>
>>
>> Le 21/08/2018 à 08:57, Michael Brohl a écrit :
>>> We should neither simply remove those links nor should we have anything
>> hard coded.
>>> Let's look for a smarter solution. No need to hurry, better take some
>> time to implement something sustainable.
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Michael Brohl
>>> ecomify GmbH
>>> www.ecomify.de
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 21.08.18 um 07:00 schrieb Jacques Le Roux:
>>>> Of course, but I like to be able to get from the backend to the
>> frontend when it's possible.
>>>> I don't see any troubles keeping them once it's handled that way, but
>> theoretical ones .
>>>> Of course if the community prefers to remove them it's far easier and
>> was what I wanted to do initially before having this idea of hiding links
>>>> Jacques
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Le 21/08/2018 à 01:03, Taher Alkhateeb a écrit :
>>>>> Simple, don't put any logic that points outwards from the framework.
>> That
>>>>> is sort of why we split repositories in the first place.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Aug 20, 2018, 8:00 PM Jacques Le Roux <
>> [hidden email]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Le 20/08/2018 à 16:53, Taher Alkhateeb a écrit :
>>>>>>> Makes sense. However, i note reading in the JIRA that "we can simply
>> hide
>>>>>>> the button when the ecommerce component is not present". That sounds
>> like
>>>>>>> logic that points outwards which is a bad design IMHO.
>>>>>> I could not find a better way yet, I'm all ears for ideas.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anyway, I think it is a reasonable step to take. +1
>>>>>> I attached a patch for today at OFBIZ-9241
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 20, 2018, 5:31 PM Jacques Le Roux <
>>>>>> [hidden email]>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The proposition is in the title.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> With the changes I'm introducing with OFBIZ-9241 there will few
>>>>>>>> differences in UI (and presence of js files) between the framework
>> only
>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> framework+plugins
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I must add:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>      * since the old is often no longer supported and a release of
>> it is
>>>>>>>> always available (today R13) for users. I think removing the old
>> demo is
>>>>>>>> maybe
>>>>>>>>        not a big deal.
>>>>>>>>      * I found several cases where people, new to OFBiz, considered
>> OFBiz
>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>> what we call the framework, and were considering the plugins as
>>>>>> optional.
>>>>>>>> What do you think?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>

[taher]

I did not say I prefer NPEs, don't put words in my mouth.

On Tue, Aug 21, 2018, 11:09 AM Jacques Le Roux <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> OK, that your and Michael's opinions. So you prefer NPEs in code than
> hiding them when necessary?
>
> What others think?
>
> Jacques
>
>
> Le 21/08/2018 à 09:45, Taher Alkhateeb a écrit :
> > Again, hiding is not a solution and is correcting an error with another
> > error.
> >
> > -1
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 21, 2018, 10:37 AM Jacques Le Roux <
> [hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> See my answer in the Jira, we can't tolerate NPEs, they are already
> there
> >> for too long
> >>
> >> Being smart is cool, being smart and clean is better ;)
> >>
> >> Jacques
> >>
> >>
> >> Le 21/08/2018 à 08:57, Michael Brohl a écrit :
> >>> We should neither simply remove those links nor should we have anything
> >> hard coded.
> >>> Let's look for a smarter solution. No need to hurry, better take some
> >> time to implement something sustainable.
> >>> Regards,
> >>>
> >>> Michael Brohl
> >>> ecomify GmbH
> >>> www.ecomify.de
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Am 21.08.18 um 07:00 schrieb Jacques Le Roux:
> >>>> Of course, but I like to be able to get from the backend to the
> >> frontend when it's possible.
> >>>> I don't see any troubles keeping them once it's handled that way, but
> >> theoretical ones .
> >>>> Of course if the community prefers to remove them it's far easier and
> >> was what I wanted to do initially before having this idea of hiding
> links
> >>>> Jacques
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Le 21/08/2018 à 01:03, Taher Alkhateeb a écrit :
> >>>>> Simple, don't put any logic that points outwards from the framework.
> >> That
> >>>>> is sort of why we split repositories in the first place.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Mon, Aug 20, 2018, 8:00 PM Jacques Le Roux <
> >> [hidden email]>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Le 20/08/2018 à 16:53, Taher Alkhateeb a écrit :
> >>>>>>> Makes sense. However, i note reading in the JIRA that "we can
> simply
> >> hide
> >>>>>>> the button when the ecommerce component is not present". That
> sounds
> >> like
> >>>>>>> logic that points outwards which is a bad design IMHO.
> >>>>>> I could not find a better way yet, I'm all ears for ideas.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Anyway, I think it is a reasonable step to take. +1
> >>>>>> I attached a patch for today at OFBIZ-9241
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Jacques
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 20, 2018, 5:31 PM Jacques Le Roux <
> >>>>>> [hidden email]>
> >>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Hi,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> The proposition is in the title.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> With the changes I'm introducing with OFBIZ-9241 there will few
> >>>>>>>> differences in UI (and presence of js files) between the framework
> >> only
> >>>>>> and
> >>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>> framework+plugins
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I must add:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>      * since the old is often no longer supported and a release of
> >> it is
> >>>>>>>> always available (today R13) for users. I think removing the old
> >> demo is
> >>>>>>>> maybe
> >>>>>>>>        not a big deal.
> >>>>>>>>      * I found several cases where people, new to OFBiz,
> considered
> >> OFBiz
> >>>>>> as
> >>>>>>>> what we call the framework, and were considering the plugins as
> >>>>>> optional.
> >>>>>>>> What do you think?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Jacques
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>
> >>
>
>

[Gil Portenseigne]

I've not analysed the issue in details, but an in-middle solution should
be to remove the problematic links from trunk, and fill a new Jira for
implementing it in the better way :).
Gil

Le mardi 21 août 2018 à 10:10:03 (+0200), Jacques Le Roux a écrit :

> OK, that your and Michael's opinions. So you prefer NPEs in code than hiding them when necessary?
>
> What others think?
>
> Jacques
>
>
> Le 21/08/2018 à 09:45, Taher Alkhateeb a écrit :
> > Again, hiding is not a solution and is correcting an error with another
> > error.
> >
> > -1
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 21, 2018, 10:37 AM Jacques Le Roux <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > See my answer in the Jira, we can't tolerate NPEs, they are already there
> > > for too long
> > >
> > > Being smart is cool, being smart and clean is better ;)
> > >
> > > Jacques
> > >
> > >
> > > Le 21/08/2018 à 08:57, Michael Brohl a écrit :
> > > > We should neither simply remove those links nor should we have anything
> > > hard coded.
> > > > Let's look for a smarter solution. No need to hurry, better take some
> > > time to implement something sustainable.
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > > Michael Brohl
> > > > ecomify GmbH
> > > > www.ecomify.de
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Am 21.08.18 um 07:00 schrieb Jacques Le Roux:
> > > > > Of course, but I like to be able to get from the backend to the
> > > frontend when it's possible.
> > > > > I don't see any troubles keeping them once it's handled that way, but
> > > theoretical ones .
> > > > > Of course if the community prefers to remove them it's far easier and
> > > was what I wanted to do initially before having this idea of hiding links
> > > > > Jacques
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Le 21/08/2018 à 01:03, Taher Alkhateeb a écrit :
> > > > > > Simple, don't put any logic that points outwards from the framework.
> > > That
> > > > > > is sort of why we split repositories in the first place.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Mon, Aug 20, 2018, 8:00 PM Jacques Le Roux <
> > > [hidden email]>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Le 20/08/2018 à 16:53, Taher Alkhateeb a écrit :
> > > > > > > > Makes sense. However, i note reading in the JIRA that "we can simply
> > > hide
> > > > > > > > the button when the ecommerce component is not present". That sounds
> > > like
> > > > > > > > logic that points outwards which is a bad design IMHO.
> > > > > > > I could not find a better way yet, I'm all ears for ideas.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Anyway, I think it is a reasonable step to take. +1
> > > > > > > I attached a patch for today at OFBIZ-9241
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Jacques
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Mon, Aug 20, 2018, 5:31 PM Jacques Le Roux <
> > > > > > > [hidden email]>
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The proposition is in the title.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > With the changes I'm introducing with OFBIZ-9241 there will few
> > > > > > > > > differences in UI (and presence of js files) between the framework
> > > only
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > framework+plugins
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I must add:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >      * since the old is often no longer supported and a release of
> > > it is
> > > > > > > > > always available (today R13) for users. I think removing the old
> > > demo is
> > > > > > > > > maybe
> > > > > > > > >        not a big deal.
> > > > > > > > >      * I found several cases where people, new to OFBiz, considered
> > > OFBiz
> > > > > > > as
> > > > > > > > > what we call the framework, and were considering the plugins as
> > > > > > > optional.
> > > > > > > > > What do you think?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Jacques
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > >
>

[Jacques Le Roux]

Le 21/08/2018 à 11:10, Gil Portenseigne a écrit :
> I've not analysed the issue in details, but an in-middle solution should
> be to remove the problematic links from trunk,
That's what I thought initially, and created OFBIZ-9241 for that. Then I thought we could simply hide them when the ecommerce component is not used,
rather than removing them. Because they are useful, but I have not a strong opinion about that.

It seems Deepak and Michael have other ideas, let's see what will come from them. I mean in term of patches for review...

Jacques

> and fill a new Jira for
> implementing it in the better way :).
> Gil
>
> Le mardi 21 août 2018 à 10:10:03 (+0200), Jacques Le Roux a écrit :
>> OK, that your and Michael's opinions. So you prefer NPEs in code than hiding them when necessary?
>>
>> What others think?
>>
>> Jacques
>>
>>
>> Le 21/08/2018 à 09:45, Taher Alkhateeb a écrit :
>>> Again, hiding is not a solution and is correcting an error with another
>>> error.
>>>
>>> -1
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 21, 2018, 10:37 AM Jacques Le Roux <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> See my answer in the Jira, we can't tolerate NPEs, they are already there
>>>> for too long
>>>>
>>>> Being smart is cool, being smart and clean is better ;)
>>>>
>>>> Jacques
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Le 21/08/2018 à 08:57, Michael Brohl a écrit :
>>>>> We should neither simply remove those links nor should we have anything
>>>> hard coded.
>>>>> Let's look for a smarter solution. No need to hurry, better take some
>>>> time to implement something sustainable.
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Michael Brohl
>>>>> ecomify GmbH
>>>>> www.ecomify.de
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Am 21.08.18 um 07:00 schrieb Jacques Le Roux:
>>>>>> Of course, but I like to be able to get from the backend to the
>>>> frontend when it's possible.
>>>>>> I don't see any troubles keeping them once it's handled that way, but
>>>> theoretical ones .
>>>>>> Of course if the community prefers to remove them it's far easier and
>>>> was what I wanted to do initially before having this idea of hiding links
>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Le 21/08/2018 à 01:03, Taher Alkhateeb a écrit :
>>>>>>> Simple, don't put any logic that points outwards from the framework.
>>>> That
>>>>>>> is sort of why we split repositories in the first place.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 20, 2018, 8:00 PM Jacques Le Roux <
>>>> [hidden email]>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Le 20/08/2018 à 16:53, Taher Alkhateeb a écrit :
>>>>>>>>> Makes sense. However, i note reading in the JIRA that "we can simply
>>>> hide
>>>>>>>>> the button when the ecommerce component is not present". That sounds
>>>> like
>>>>>>>>> logic that points outwards which is a bad design IMHO.
>>>>>>>> I could not find a better way yet, I'm all ears for ideas.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Anyway, I think it is a reasonable step to take. +1
>>>>>>>> I attached a patch for today at OFBIZ-9241
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 20, 2018, 5:31 PM Jacques Le Roux <
>>>>>>>> [hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The proposition is in the title.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> With the changes I'm introducing with OFBIZ-9241 there will few
>>>>>>>>>> differences in UI (and presence of js files) between the framework
>>>> only
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> framework+plugins
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I must add:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>       * since the old is often no longer supported and a release of
>>>> it is
>>>>>>>>>> always available (today R13) for users. I think removing the old
>>>> demo is
>>>>>>>>>> maybe
>>>>>>>>>>         not a big deal.
>>>>>>>>>>       * I found several cases where people, new to OFBiz, considered
>>>> OFBiz
>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>> what we call the framework, and were considering the plugins as
>>>>>>>> optional.
>>>>>>>>>> What do you think?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>

[Julien NICOLAS]

Hi all,

My opinion is to hide the link instead of delete it. I don't know if we
have other link in this case but it could be important to keep it in
source code. It could be convenient to have it for replacement by the
good solution

But in the same time, we need to think about inter-webapp connection.
How a menu from webapp A could be extended by webapp B without putting
code in webapp A.

It could be interesting to have a new tool bar in product to manage
ecommerce when ecommerce is installed. If we have this kind of feature,
it could work as well for OOTB webapp like product and stock, party and
order, etc.

Julien.


Le 21/08/2018 à 10:10, Jacques Le Roux a écrit :

> OK, that your and Michael's opinions. So you prefer NPEs in code than
> hiding them when necessary?
>
> What others think?
>
> Jacques
>
>
> Le 21/08/2018 à 09:45, Taher Alkhateeb a écrit :
>> Again, hiding is not a solution and is correcting an error with another
>> error.
>>
>> -1
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 21, 2018, 10:37 AM Jacques Le Roux
>> <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> See my answer in the Jira, we can't tolerate NPEs, they are already
>>> there
>>> for too long
>>>
>>> Being smart is cool, being smart and clean is better ;)
>>>
>>> Jacques
>>>
>>>
>>> Le 21/08/2018 à 08:57, Michael Brohl a écrit :
>>>> We should neither simply remove those links nor should we have
>>>> anything
>>> hard coded.
>>>> Let's look for a smarter solution. No need to hurry, better take some
>>> time to implement something sustainable.
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Michael Brohl
>>>> ecomify GmbH
>>>> www.ecomify.de
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Am 21.08.18 um 07:00 schrieb Jacques Le Roux:
>>>>> Of course, but I like to be able to get from the backend to the
>>> frontend when it's possible.
>>>>> I don't see any troubles keeping them once it's handled that way, but
>>> theoretical ones .
>>>>> Of course if the community prefers to remove them it's far easier and
>>> was what I wanted to do initially before having this idea of hiding
>>> links
>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Le 21/08/2018 à 01:03, Taher Alkhateeb a écrit :
>>>>>> Simple, don't put any logic that points outwards from the framework.
>>> That
>>>>>> is sort of why we split repositories in the first place.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 20, 2018, 8:00 PM Jacques Le Roux <
>>> [hidden email]>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Le 20/08/2018 à 16:53, Taher Alkhateeb a écrit :
>>>>>>>> Makes sense. However, i note reading in the JIRA that "we can
>>>>>>>> simply
>>> hide
>>>>>>>> the button when the ecommerce component is not present". That
>>>>>>>> sounds
>>> like
>>>>>>>> logic that points outwards which is a bad design IMHO.
>>>>>>> I could not find a better way yet, I'm all ears for ideas.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Anyway, I think it is a reasonable step to take. +1
>>>>>>> I attached a patch for today at OFBIZ-9241
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 20, 2018, 5:31 PM Jacques Le Roux <
>>>>>>> [hidden email]>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The proposition is in the title.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> With the changes I'm introducing with OFBIZ-9241 there will few
>>>>>>>>> differences in UI (and presence of js files) between the
>>>>>>>>> framework
>>> only
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> framework+plugins
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I must add:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>      * since the old is often no longer supported and a
>>>>>>>>> release of
>>> it is
>>>>>>>>> always available (today R13) for users. I think removing the old
>>> demo is
>>>>>>>>> maybe
>>>>>>>>>        not a big deal.
>>>>>>>>>      * I found several cases where people, new to OFBiz,
>>>>>>>>> considered
>>> OFBiz
>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>> what we call the framework, and were considering the plugins as
>>>>>>> optional.
>>>>>>>>> What do you think?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>
>

[Jacques Le Roux]

Thanks Julien,

At this stage, after 2 days, we already have diverse answers and it's hard to see a clear answer/consensus from that.
So after this [PROPOSITION] I'll start 2 [VOTE]s, for:

 1. Demos: replace old by trunk framework only?
 2. Hide, remove or let as is UI links in framework (including applications) to plugins?

BTW Julien, no need to put me in copy, I assiduously follow the OFBiz MLs ;)

Jacques


Le 22/08/2018 à 10:13, Julien NICOLAS a écrit :

> Hi all,
>
> My opinion is to hide the link instead of delete it. I don't know if we have other link in this case but it could be important to keep it in source
> code. It could be convenient to have it for replacement by the good solution
>
> But in the same time, we need to think about inter-webapp connection. How a menu from webapp A could be extended by webapp B without putting code in
> webapp A.
>
> It could be interesting to have a new tool bar in product to manage ecommerce when ecommerce is installed. If we have this kind of feature, it could
> work as well for OOTB webapp like product and stock, party and order, etc.
>
> Julien.
>
>
> Le 21/08/2018 à 10:10, Jacques Le Roux a écrit :
>> OK, that your and Michael's opinions. So you prefer NPEs in code than hiding them when necessary?
>>
>> What others think?
>>
>> Jacques
>>
>>
>> Le 21/08/2018 à 09:45, Taher Alkhateeb a écrit :
>>> Again, hiding is not a solution and is correcting an error with another
>>> error.
>>>
>>> -1
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 21, 2018, 10:37 AM Jacques Le Roux <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> See my answer in the Jira, we can't tolerate NPEs, they are already there
>>>> for too long
>>>>
>>>> Being smart is cool, being smart and clean is better ;)
>>>>
>>>> Jacques
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Le 21/08/2018 à 08:57, Michael Brohl a écrit :
>>>>> We should neither simply remove those links nor should we have anything
>>>> hard coded.
>>>>> Let's look for a smarter solution. No need to hurry, better take some
>>>> time to implement something sustainable.
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Michael Brohl
>>>>> ecomify GmbH
>>>>> www.ecomify.de
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Am 21.08.18 um 07:00 schrieb Jacques Le Roux:
>>>>>> Of course, but I like to be able to get from the backend to the
>>>> frontend when it's possible.
>>>>>> I don't see any troubles keeping them once it's handled that way, but
>>>> theoretical ones .
>>>>>> Of course if the community prefers to remove them it's far easier and
>>>> was what I wanted to do initially before having this idea of hiding links
>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Le 21/08/2018 à 01:03, Taher Alkhateeb a écrit :
>>>>>>> Simple, don't put any logic that points outwards from the framework.
>>>> That
>>>>>>> is sort of why we split repositories in the first place.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 20, 2018, 8:00 PM Jacques Le Roux <
>>>> [hidden email]>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Le 20/08/2018 à 16:53, Taher Alkhateeb a écrit :
>>>>>>>>> Makes sense. However, i note reading in the JIRA that "we can simply
>>>> hide
>>>>>>>>> the button when the ecommerce component is not present". That sounds
>>>> like
>>>>>>>>> logic that points outwards which is a bad design IMHO.
>>>>>>>> I could not find a better way yet, I'm all ears for ideas.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Anyway, I think it is a reasonable step to take. +1
>>>>>>>> I attached a patch for today at OFBIZ-9241
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 20, 2018, 5:31 PM Jacques Le Roux <
>>>>>>>> [hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The proposition is in the title.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> With the changes I'm introducing with OFBIZ-9241 there will few
>>>>>>>>>> differences in UI (and presence of js files) between the framework
>>>> only
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> framework+plugins
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I must add:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>      * since the old is often no longer supported and a release of
>>>> it is
>>>>>>>>>> always available (today R13) for users. I think removing the old
>>>> demo is
>>>>>>>>>> maybe
>>>>>>>>>>        not a big deal.
>>>>>>>>>>      * I found several cases where people, new to OFBiz, considered
>>>> OFBiz
>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>> what we call the framework, and were considering the plugins as
>>>>>>>> optional.
>>>>>>>>>> What do you think?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>
>

[Michael Brohl-3]

Jacques,

just 2 days are not much for discussion in an open source community.
Please have in mind that people might not have the time to think about
and answer to the discussion in such a short timeframe. Most of us are
working full time.

I see no need to hurry and propose to put down the vote and wait for at
least a week to see if there are additional opinions.

Thanks,

Michael


Am 22.08.18 um 14:02 schrieb Jacques Le Roux:

> Thanks Julien,
>
> At this stage, after 2 days, we already have diverse answers and it's
> hard to see a clear answer/consensus from that.
> So after this [PROPOSITION] I'll start 2 [VOTE]s, for:
>
> 1. Demos: replace old by trunk framework only?
> 2. Hide, remove or let as is UI links in framework (including
> applications) to plugins?
>
> BTW Julien, no need to put me in copy, I assiduously follow the OFBiz
> MLs ;)
>
> Jacques
>
>
> Le 22/08/2018 à 10:13, Julien NICOLAS a écrit :
>> Hi all,
>>
>> My opinion is to hide the link instead of delete it. I don't know if
>> we have other link in this case but it could be important to keep it
>> in source code. It could be convenient to have it for replacement by
>> the good solution
>>
>> But in the same time, we need to think about inter-webapp connection.
>> How a menu from webapp A could be extended by webapp B without
>> putting code in webapp A.
>>
>> It could be interesting to have a new tool bar in product to manage
>> ecommerce when ecommerce is installed. If we have this kind of
>> feature, it could work as well for OOTB webapp like product and
>> stock, party and order, etc.
>>
>> Julien.
>>
>>
>> Le 21/08/2018 à 10:10, Jacques Le Roux a écrit :
>>> OK, that your and Michael's opinions. So you prefer NPEs in code
>>> than hiding them when necessary?
>>>
>>> What others think?
>>>
>>> Jacques
>>>
>>>
>>> Le 21/08/2018 à 09:45, Taher Alkhateeb a écrit :
>>>> Again, hiding is not a solution and is correcting an error with
>>>> another
>>>> error.
>>>>
>>>> -1
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Aug 21, 2018, 10:37 AM Jacques Le Roux
>>>> <[hidden email]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> See my answer in the Jira, we can't tolerate NPEs, they are
>>>>> already there
>>>>> for too long
>>>>>
>>>>> Being smart is cool, being smart and clean is better ;)
>>>>>
>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Le 21/08/2018 à 08:57, Michael Brohl a écrit :
>>>>>> We should neither simply remove those links nor should we have
>>>>>> anything
>>>>> hard coded.
>>>>>> Let's look for a smarter solution. No need to hurry, better take
>>>>>> some
>>>>> time to implement something sustainable.
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Michael Brohl
>>>>>> ecomify GmbH
>>>>>> www.ecomify.de
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Am 21.08.18 um 07:00 schrieb Jacques Le Roux:
>>>>>>> Of course, but I like to be able to get from the backend to the
>>>>> frontend when it's possible.
>>>>>>> I don't see any troubles keeping them once it's handled that
>>>>>>> way, but
>>>>> theoretical ones .
>>>>>>> Of course if the community prefers to remove them it's far
>>>>>>> easier and
>>>>> was what I wanted to do initially before having this idea of
>>>>> hiding links
>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Le 21/08/2018 à 01:03, Taher Alkhateeb a écrit :
>>>>>>>> Simple, don't put any logic that points outwards from the
>>>>>>>> framework.
>>>>> That
>>>>>>>> is sort of why we split repositories in the first place.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 20, 2018, 8:00 PM Jacques Le Roux <
>>>>> [hidden email]>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Le 20/08/2018 à 16:53, Taher Alkhateeb a écrit :
>>>>>>>>>> Makes sense. However, i note reading in the JIRA that "we can
>>>>>>>>>> simply
>>>>> hide
>>>>>>>>>> the button when the ecommerce component is not present". That
>>>>>>>>>> sounds
>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>> logic that points outwards which is a bad design IMHO.
>>>>>>>>> I could not find a better way yet, I'm all ears for ideas.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Anyway, I think it is a reasonable step to take. +1
>>>>>>>>> I attached a patch for today at OFBIZ-9241
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 20, 2018, 5:31 PM Jacques Le Roux <
>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The proposition is in the title.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> With the changes I'm introducing with OFBIZ-9241 there will few
>>>>>>>>>>> differences in UI (and presence of js files) between the
>>>>>>>>>>> framework
>>>>> only
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> framework+plugins
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I must add:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>      * since the old is often no longer supported and a
>>>>>>>>>>> release of
>>>>> it is
>>>>>>>>>>> always available (today R13) for users. I think removing the
>>>>>>>>>>> old
>>>>> demo is
>>>>>>>>>>> maybe
>>>>>>>>>>>        not a big deal.
>>>>>>>>>>>      * I found several cases where people, new to OFBiz,
>>>>>>>>>>> considered
>>>>> OFBiz
>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>> what we call the framework, and were considering the plugins as
>>>>>>>>> optional.
>>>>>>>>>>> What do you think?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

[Jacques Le Roux]

Hi Michael,

OK, no problems

Jacques


Le 22/08/2018 à 15:51, Michael Brohl a écrit :

> Jacques,
>
> just 2 days are not much for discussion in an open source community. Please have in mind that people might not have the time to think about and
> answer to the discussion in such a short timeframe. Most of us are working full time.
>
> I see no need to hurry and propose to put down the vote and wait for at least a week to see if there are additional opinions.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Michael
>
>
> Am 22.08.18 um 14:02 schrieb Jacques Le Roux:
>> Thanks Julien,
>>
>> At this stage, after 2 days, we already have diverse answers and it's hard to see a clear answer/consensus from that.
>> So after this [PROPOSITION] I'll start 2 [VOTE]s, for:
>>
>> 1. Demos: replace old by trunk framework only?
>> 2. Hide, remove or let as is UI links in framework (including applications) to plugins?
>>
>> BTW Julien, no need to put me in copy, I assiduously follow the OFBiz MLs ;)
>>
>> Jacques
>>
>>
>> Le 22/08/2018 à 10:13, Julien NICOLAS a écrit :
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> My opinion is to hide the link instead of delete it. I don't know if we have other link in this case but it could be important to keep it in
>>> source code. It could be convenient to have it for replacement by the good solution
>>>
>>> But in the same time, we need to think about inter-webapp connection. How a menu from webapp A could be extended by webapp B without putting code
>>> in webapp A.
>>>
>>> It could be interesting to have a new tool bar in product to manage ecommerce when ecommerce is installed. If we have this kind of feature, it
>>> could work as well for OOTB webapp like product and stock, party and order, etc.
>>>
>>> Julien.
>>>
>>>
>>> Le 21/08/2018 à 10:10, Jacques Le Roux a écrit :
>>>> OK, that your and Michael's opinions. So you prefer NPEs in code than hiding them when necessary?
>>>>
>>>> What others think?
>>>>
>>>> Jacques
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Le 21/08/2018 à 09:45, Taher Alkhateeb a écrit :
>>>>> Again, hiding is not a solution and is correcting an error with another
>>>>> error.
>>>>>
>>>>> -1
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Aug 21, 2018, 10:37 AM Jacques Le Roux <[hidden email]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> See my answer in the Jira, we can't tolerate NPEs, they are already there
>>>>>> for too long
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Being smart is cool, being smart and clean is better ;)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Le 21/08/2018 à 08:57, Michael Brohl a écrit :
>>>>>>> We should neither simply remove those links nor should we have anything
>>>>>> hard coded.
>>>>>>> Let's look for a smarter solution. No need to hurry, better take some
>>>>>> time to implement something sustainable.
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Michael Brohl
>>>>>>> ecomify GmbH
>>>>>>> www.ecomify.de
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Am 21.08.18 um 07:00 schrieb Jacques Le Roux:
>>>>>>>> Of course, but I like to be able to get from the backend to the
>>>>>> frontend when it's possible.
>>>>>>>> I don't see any troubles keeping them once it's handled that way, but
>>>>>> theoretical ones .
>>>>>>>> Of course if the community prefers to remove them it's far easier and
>>>>>> was what I wanted to do initially before having this idea of hiding links
>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Le 21/08/2018 à 01:03, Taher Alkhateeb a écrit :
>>>>>>>>> Simple, don't put any logic that points outwards from the framework.
>>>>>> That
>>>>>>>>> is sort of why we split repositories in the first place.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 20, 2018, 8:00 PM Jacques Le Roux <
>>>>>> [hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Le 20/08/2018 à 16:53, Taher Alkhateeb a écrit :
>>>>>>>>>>> Makes sense. However, i note reading in the JIRA that "we can simply
>>>>>> hide
>>>>>>>>>>> the button when the ecommerce component is not present". That sounds
>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>>> logic that points outwards which is a bad design IMHO.
>>>>>>>>>> I could not find a better way yet, I'm all ears for ideas.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Anyway, I think it is a reasonable step to take. +1
>>>>>>>>>> I attached a patch for today at OFBIZ-9241
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 20, 2018, 5:31 PM Jacques Le Roux <
>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The proposition is in the title.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> With the changes I'm introducing with OFBIZ-9241 there will few
>>>>>>>>>>>> differences in UI (and presence of js files) between the framework
>>>>>> only
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> framework+plugins
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I must add:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>      * since the old is often no longer supported and a release of
>>>>>> it is
>>>>>>>>>>>> always available (today R13) for users. I think removing the old
>>>>>> demo is
>>>>>>>>>>>> maybe
>>>>>>>>>>>>        not a big deal.
>>>>>>>>>>>>      * I found several cases where people, new to OFBiz, considered
>>>>>> OFBiz
>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>> what we call the framework, and were considering the plugins as
>>>>>>>>>> optional.
>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you think?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

[Jacques Le Roux]

Hi Michael,

My proposition is to replace old by framework only, not to remove framework+plugins.

Jacques


Le 21/08/2018 à 08:54, Michael Brohl a écrit :

> Hi Jacques,
>
> for my comments on https://issues.apache.org/jira/projects/OFBIZ/issues/OFBIZ-9241 see Jira.
>
> For the proposal, I think we should provide the demo with the framwork + plugins. It shows the portential of the whole ecosystem and I see no reason
> why we should not make it available?
>
> Regards,
>
> Michael Brohl
> ecomify GmbH
> www.ecomify.de
>
>
> Am 20.08.18 um 16:31 schrieb Jacques Le Roux:
>> Hi,
>>
>> The proposition is in the title.
>>
>> With the changes I'm introducing with OFBIZ-9241 there will few differences in UI (and presence of js files) between the framework only and the
>> framework+plugins
>>
>> I must add:
>>
>>  * since the old is often no longer supported and a release of it is always available (today R13) for users. I think removing the old demo is maybe
>>    not a big deal.
>>  * I found several cases where people, new to OFBiz, considered OFBiz as what we call the framework, and were considering the plugins as optional.
>>
>> What do you think?
>>
>> Jacques
>>
>>
>
>

[taher]

Hi Julien,

Good ideas, and this is a good start to try and tackle the problem.
Whatever we do, we must not keep "ghosts" or things that are waiting
for specific outside plugins. The framework should _never_ know
anything about the outside. This is a fundamental architectural
concept in any layered software system.

I'm ready to help if needed, and I think there are many ways to fix
this problem. As you said one way is to extend webapps, another is
perhaps to optionally include freemarker templates that match a
certain pattern if they exist. In other words, you provide a generic
plugin-like mechanism for enhancing the system, but the direction is
_always_ from the outside to the inside, and not the other way around.
And that is what I mean with a root-cause analysis and solutions.

So I'm all for a generic solution, but not for hard-wiring any
component or any link that is specific to a certain component. That is
definitely a code smell and beats the entire purpose of splitting the
repositories in the first place.
On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 11:13 AM Julien NICOLAS
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Hi all,
>
> My opinion is to hide the link instead of delete it. I don't know if we
> have other link in this case but it could be important to keep it in
> source code. It could be convenient to have it for replacement by the
> good solution
>
> But in the same time, we need to think about inter-webapp connection.
> How a menu from webapp A could be extended by webapp B without putting
> code in webapp A.
>
> It could be interesting to have a new tool bar in product to manage
> ecommerce when ecommerce is installed. If we have this kind of feature,
> it could work as well for OOTB webapp like product and stock, party and
> order, etc.
>
> Julien.
>
>
> Le 21/08/2018 à 10:10, Jacques Le Roux a écrit :
> > OK, that your and Michael's opinions. So you prefer NPEs in code than
> > hiding them when necessary?
> >
> > What others think?
> >
> > Jacques
> >
> >
> > Le 21/08/2018 à 09:45, Taher Alkhateeb a écrit :
> >> Again, hiding is not a solution and is correcting an error with another
> >> error.
> >>
> >> -1
> >>
> >> On Tue, Aug 21, 2018, 10:37 AM Jacques Le Roux
> >> <[hidden email]>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> See my answer in the Jira, we can't tolerate NPEs, they are already
> >>> there
> >>> for too long
> >>>
> >>> Being smart is cool, being smart and clean is better ;)
> >>>
> >>> Jacques
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Le 21/08/2018 à 08:57, Michael Brohl a écrit :
> >>>> We should neither simply remove those links nor should we have
> >>>> anything
> >>> hard coded.
> >>>> Let's look for a smarter solution. No need to hurry, better take some
> >>> time to implement something sustainable.
> >>>> Regards,
> >>>>
> >>>> Michael Brohl
> >>>> ecomify GmbH
> >>>> www.ecomify.de
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Am 21.08.18 um 07:00 schrieb Jacques Le Roux:
> >>>>> Of course, but I like to be able to get from the backend to the
> >>> frontend when it's possible.
> >>>>> I don't see any troubles keeping them once it's handled that way, but
> >>> theoretical ones .
> >>>>> Of course if the community prefers to remove them it's far easier and
> >>> was what I wanted to do initially before having this idea of hiding
> >>> links
> >>>>> Jacques
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Le 21/08/2018 à 01:03, Taher Alkhateeb a écrit :
> >>>>>> Simple, don't put any logic that points outwards from the framework.
> >>> That
> >>>>>> is sort of why we split repositories in the first place.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Mon, Aug 20, 2018, 8:00 PM Jacques Le Roux <
> >>> [hidden email]>
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Le 20/08/2018 à 16:53, Taher Alkhateeb a écrit :
> >>>>>>>> Makes sense. However, i note reading in the JIRA that "we can
> >>>>>>>> simply
> >>> hide
> >>>>>>>> the button when the ecommerce component is not present". That
> >>>>>>>> sounds
> >>> like
> >>>>>>>> logic that points outwards which is a bad design IMHO.
> >>>>>>> I could not find a better way yet, I'm all ears for ideas.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Anyway, I think it is a reasonable step to take. +1
> >>>>>>> I attached a patch for today at OFBIZ-9241
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Jacques
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 20, 2018, 5:31 PM Jacques Le Roux <
> >>>>>>> [hidden email]>
> >>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Hi,
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> The proposition is in the title.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> With the changes I'm introducing with OFBIZ-9241 there will few
> >>>>>>>>> differences in UI (and presence of js files) between the
> >>>>>>>>> framework
> >>> only
> >>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>> framework+plugins
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I must add:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>      * since the old is often no longer supported and a
> >>>>>>>>> release of
> >>> it is
> >>>>>>>>> always available (today R13) for users. I think removing the old
> >>> demo is
> >>>>>>>>> maybe
> >>>>>>>>>        not a big deal.
> >>>>>>>>>      * I found several cases where people, new to OFBiz,
> >>>>>>>>> considered
> >>> OFBiz
> >>>>>>> as
> >>>>>>>>> what we call the framework, and were considering the plugins as
> >>>>>>> optional.
> >>>>>>>>> What do you think?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Jacques
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >
> >
>