Price Rule simple question?

[Walter Vaughan]

I understand price rules pretty good [I think :(].

One category that I am not sure of is a party classification that gets 10% off
retail, 15% over a certain order amount, 20% off over an other amount, and so on
up to 30% off. I am pretty sure I would handle them with a global price rule of
-10 off of default prices, and apply a promotion based upon order amount to get
them the rest of their discounts.

What not clear would be how to use
https://host_name:8443/catalog/control/createProductPromoAction
I see that I can set a rule based upon Cart Subtotal
and there is an action for Order Percent Discount,
but it's not clear which box would get the value...?
Quantity,Item, or Party? None seem right

What really monkeys this up (my apologies to any monkeys on the list) is that
after I get this rule working, I have a exception for a category of products
that are limited to 10% regardless of amount of order total.

Any pointers will be greatly appreciated. Massive amounts of karma points will
be awarded for laser clear insight.

--
Walter

[David E Jones]

On Feb 17, 2007, at 9:15 AM, Walter Vaughan wrote:

> I understand price rules pretty good [I think :(].
>
> One category that I am not sure of is a party classification that  
> gets 10% off retail, 15% over a certain order amount, 20% off over  
> an other amount, and so on up to 30% off. I am pretty sure I would  
> handle them with a global price rule of -10 off of default prices,  
> and apply a promotion based upon order amount to get them the rest  
> of their discounts.
>
> What not clear would be how to use
> https://host_name:8443/catalog/control/createProductPromoAction
> I see that I can set a rule based upon Cart Subtotal
> and there is an action for Order Percent Discount,
> but it's not clear which box would get the value...?
> Quantity,Item, or Party? None seem right

Quantity would be the one where the value goes.

> What really monkeys this up (my apologies to any monkeys on the  
> list) is that after I get this rule working, I have a exception for  
> a category of products that are limited to 10% regardless of amount  
> of order total.

What is that actual error you are getting?

-David

[Walter Vaughan]

David E. Jones wrote:

> On Feb 17, 2007, at 9:15 AM, Walter Vaughan wrote:
>> One category that I am not sure of is a party classification that  
>> gets 10% off retail, 15% over a certain order amount, 20% off over  an
>> other amount, and so on up to 30% off. I am pretty sure I would  
>> handle them with a global price rule of -10 off of default prices,  
>> and apply a promotion based upon order amount to get them the rest  of
>> their discounts.
>>
>> What not clear would be how to use
>> https://host_name:8443/catalog/control/createProductPromoAction
>> I see that I can set a rule based upon Cart Subtotal
>> and there is an action for Order Percent Discount,
>> but it's not clear which box would get the value...?
>> Quantity,Item, or Party? None seem right
>
> Quantity would be the one where the value goes.

 From looking at the Demo data
(catalog/control/EditProductPromoRules?productPromoId=9011) the amount of
discount should be in the Amount: box

I still cannot get it working, but I'll keep fiddling around till I get it to
run a promotion based upon cart total and party classification.


>> What really monkeys this up (my apologies to any monkeys on the  list)
>> is that after I get this rule working, I have a exception for  a
>> category of products that are limited to 10% regardless of amount  of
>> order total.
>
> What is that actual error you are getting?

Its not an error yet :) What I can't wrap my head around it how to handle the
case where the customer is entitled to an additional discount based upon the
value of items in the cart, yet they are not entitled to recieve that additional
discount percentage for all the items in the cart.

                   10% off     5% Promo
Part    Retail     PriceRule   Qty   over $500 Total
A $10   $9 10 0 $90
A $10   $9 70 35 $595
B $10   $9 10 0 $90
B $10   $9           70 0        $630

So if a customer had 70 of partA and 70 of partB which is exempt from any more
discounting, their cart total should be $1225, not $1260

I guess I need to get a promo I created working, before I worry about the
exception to the promo :)

--
Walter

[David E Jones]

On Feb 18, 2007, at 5:22 AM, Walter Vaughan wrote:

>>> What really monkeys this up (my apologies to any monkeys on the  
>>> list) is that after I get this rule working, I have a exception  
>>> for  a category of products that are limited to 10% regardless of  
>>> amount  of order total.
>> What is that actual error you are getting?
>
> Its not an error yet :) What I can't wrap my head around it how to  
> handle the case where the customer is entitled to an additional  
> discount based upon the value of items in the cart, yet they are  
> not entitled to recieve that additional discount percentage for all  
> the items in the cart.
>
>   10% off     5% Promo
> Part    Retail     PriceRule   Qty   over $500 Total
> A $10   $9 10 0 $90
> A $10   $9 70 35 $595
> B $10   $9 10 0 $90
> B $10   $9           70 0        $630
>
> So if a customer had 70 of partA and 70 of partB which is exempt  
> from any more discounting, their cart total should be $1225, not $1260
>
> I guess I need to get a promo I created working, before I worry  
> about the exception to the promo :)

I'm really lost here... maybe I'm missing something obvious.

One thing I'm not clear about it where you are using price rules, and  
where you are using promotions. The two are very different.

I think what you are describing here is easiest to do with  
promotions. You can specify a category (or multiple categories) that  
are excluded from a promotion condition or action or in general.

-David

[David Shere]

The complication stems from the requirement:  If the total of the order
is over $500, we need to apply an additional discount, but only to
_certain items_, not the whole order.

If a dealer orders more than $500 in merchandise, they get an additional
  5% off of their "entire order", but because we don't want it to apply
to limited discount items (which, if discounted further than X% we make
no profit on), it's not really off of the entire order, it's off of the
items in the order that aren't limited discount items.

My understanding is that price rules apply to ITEMS, whereas promotions
apply to ORDERS.  We need a mechanism that can do both.  We either need
a price rule that can be employed only when a certain value is reached
in the cart, or a promotion that can be employed only on certain items
in the cart.

David E. Jones wrote:

>
> On Feb 18, 2007, at 5:22 AM, Walter Vaughan wrote:
>
>>>> What really monkeys this up (my apologies to any monkeys on the  
>>>> list) is that after I get this rule working, I have a exception for  
>>>> a category of products that are limited to 10% regardless of amount  
>>>> of order total.
>>> What is that actual error you are getting?
>>
>> Its not an error yet :) What I can't wrap my head around it how to
>> handle the case where the customer is entitled to an additional
>> discount based upon the value of items in the cart, yet they are not
>> entitled to recieve that additional discount percentage for all the
>> items in the cart.
>>
>>            10% off         5% Promo
>> Part    Retail     PriceRule   Qty   over $500         Total
>> A    $10       $9        10    0        $90  
>> A    $10       $9        70    35        $595
>> B    $10       $9        10    0        $90
>> B    $10       $9           70    0            $630
>>
>> So if a customer had 70 of partA and 70 of partB which is exempt from
>> any more discounting, their cart total should be $1225, not $1260
>>
>> I guess I need to get a promo I created working, before I worry about
>> the exception to the promo :)
>
> I'm really lost here... maybe I'm missing something obvious.
>
> One thing I'm not clear about it where you are using price rules, and
> where you are using promotions. The two are very different.
>
> I think what you are describing here is easiest to do with promotions.
> You can specify a category (or multiple categories) that are excluded
> from a promotion condition or action or in general.
>
> -David
>
>

--
David Shere
Information Technology Services
Steele Rubber Products
www.SteeleRubber.com

[Eric Schwartz-6]

hello david (sitting 10 ft away from me),

This is the way to get around the issue as i understand it. by looking at
the demo promotion "Test $ off products in category" i was able to figure
out how to give the appropriate discounts to the items in our categories.
The only difference is we needed to add a few conditions so the discounts
only applied if the cart sub total was at a  certain amount and the party
was in a particular classification. After i added the conditions we needed i
told it to include basically all the categories we have parts in but exclude
the parts in our LIMITED_DISC category.

The tricky part for me was that the place to include and exclude categories
is not obvious. It gives you the option to do that when creating the
conditions and actions but you really need to do it further down on the
page. i am not sure why you can specify this info in the conditions and
actions portion of the rules. It's directly under the portion of the page
for creating a new rule. Also you had to define categories to include.
excluding a category does not automatically mean include every category but
the one i chose to exclude. we have it working for now. I suppose we better
test it huh.


--
Eric Schwartz
Web Developer/IT Department
800.544.8665 ext 273
[hidden email]

"David Shere" <[hidden email]> wrote in message
news:ercak8$qlk$[hidden email]...

> The complication stems from the requirement:  If the total of the order is
> over $500, we need to apply an additional discount, but only to _certain
> items_, not the whole order.
>
> If a dealer orders more than $500 in merchandise, they get an additional
> 5% off of their "entire order", but because we don't want it to apply to
> limited discount items (which, if discounted further than X% we make no
> profit on), it's not really off of the entire order, it's off of the items
> in the order that aren't limited discount items.
>
> My understanding is that price rules apply to ITEMS, whereas promotions
> apply to ORDERS.  We need a mechanism that can do both.  We either need a
> price rule that can be employed only when a certain value is reached in
> the cart, or a promotion that can be employed only on certain items in the
> cart.
>
> David E. Jones wrote:
>>
>> On Feb 18, 2007, at 5:22 AM, Walter Vaughan wrote:
>>
>>>>> What really monkeys this up (my apologies to any monkeys on the  list)
>>>>> is that after I get this rule working, I have a exception for  a
>>>>> category of products that are limited to 10% regardless of amount  of
>>>>> order total.
>>>> What is that actual error you are getting?
>>>
>>> Its not an error yet :) What I can't wrap my head around it how to
>>> handle the case where the customer is entitled to an additional discount
>>> based upon the value of items in the cart, yet they are not entitled to
>>> recieve that additional discount percentage for all the items in the
>>> cart.
>>>
>>>            10% off         5% Promo
>>> Part    Retail     PriceRule   Qty   over $500         Total
>>> A    $10       $9        10    0        $90   A    $10       $9
>>> 70    35        $595
>>> B    $10       $9        10    0        $90
>>> B    $10       $9           70    0            $630
>>>
>>> So if a customer had 70 of partA and 70 of partB which is exempt from
>>> any more discounting, their cart total should be $1225, not $1260
>>>
>>> I guess I need to get a promo I created working, before I worry about
>>> the exception to the promo :)
>>
>> I'm really lost here... maybe I'm missing something obvious.
>>
>> One thing I'm not clear about it where you are using price rules, and
>> where you are using promotions. The two are very different.
>>
>> I think what you are describing here is easiest to do with promotions.
>> You can specify a category (or multiple categories) that are excluded
>> from a promotion condition or action or in general.
>>
>> -David
>>
>>
>
> --
> David Shere
> Information Technology Services
> Steele Rubber Products
> www.SteeleRubber.com
>
>

[David E Jones]

On Feb 19, 2007, at 11:56 AM, Eric Schwartz wrote:

> hello david (sitting 10 ft away from me),
>
> This is the way to get around the issue as i understand it. by  
> looking at
> the demo promotion "Test $ off products in category" i was able to  
> figure
> out how to give the appropriate discounts to the items in our  
> categories.
> The only difference is we needed to add a few conditions so the  
> discounts
> only applied if the cart sub total was at a  certain amount and the  
> party
> was in a particular classification. After i added the conditions we  
> needed i
> told it to include basically all the categories we have parts in  
> but exclude
> the parts in our LIMITED_DISC category.
>
> The tricky part for me was that the place to include and exclude  
> categories
> is not obvious. It gives you the option to do that when creating the
> conditions and actions but you really need to do it further down on  
> the
> page. i am not sure why you can specify this info in the conditions  
> and
> actions portion of the rules. It's directly under the portion of  
> the page
> for creating a new rule. Also you had to define categories to include.
> excluding a category does not automatically mean include every  
> category but
> the one i chose to exclude. we have it working for now. I suppose  
> we better
> test it huh.

If you associate products or categories with a condition or action  
they will apply only to that condition or action, whereas the ones on  
the bottom of the page apply to all conditions and actions.

-David

[Eric Schwartz-6]

David Wrote:

    If you associate products or categories with a condition or action they
will apply only to that condition or action, whereas the ones on the bottom
of the page apply to all conditions and actions.

-David
----------------------------------------------------------

this doesnt appear to work. i couldnt get setting the category in a
condition or action to change the way anything happend. it seems to ignore
it. do you have the same results?

[Tim Ruppert]

Eric, I have been VERY successful using these pricing rules in this way.  We use Features, Categories, Parties, etc - and not only do they work, we are able to put then in a tabular format that people can easily digest.

There definitely was some error checking going on, so I'd just make sure that you have what you think in the category and that when following the logic - everything checks out.

Cheers,

Tim

--

Tim Ruppert

HotWax Media

http://www.hotwaxmedia.com

o:801.649.6594

f:801.649.6595

On Feb 20, 2007, at 6:56 AM, Eric Schwartz wrote:

David Wrote:

    If you associate products or categories with a condition or action they

will apply only to that condition or action, whereas the ones on the bottom

of the page apply to all conditions and actions.

-David

----------------------------------------------------------

this doesnt appear to work. i couldnt get setting the category in a

condition or action to change the way anything happend. it seems to ignore

it. do you have the same results? 

[Eric Schwartz-6]

Tim Wrote:

Eric, I have been VERY successful using these pricing rules in this way.  We
use Features, Categories, Parties, etc - and not only do they work, we are
able to put then in a tabular format that people can easily digest.


There definitely was some error checking going on, so I'd just make sure
that you have what you think in the category and that when following the
logic - everything checks out.


Cheers,
Tim
---------------------------------------------------------

I agree, the pricing rules work great, its the promos in question. picking a
category to include or exclude in the conditions or actions portions doesnt
appear to work for me. i have never had an issue with not getting a desired
result with pricing rules.


--
Eric Schwartz
Web Developer/IT Department
800.544.8665 ext 273
[hidden email]

[David E Jones]

On Feb 20, 2007, at 6:56 AM, Eric Schwartz wrote:

> David Wrote:
>
>     If you associate products or categories with a condition or  
> action they
> will apply only to that condition or action, whereas the ones on  
> the bottom
> of the page apply to all conditions and actions.
>
> -David
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
> this doesnt appear to work. i couldnt get setting the category in a
> condition or action to change the way anything happend. it seems to  
> ignore
> it. do you have the same results?

Which condition or action type are you having problems with? Some of  
them don't look at the products/categories. It's pretty easy to look  
up exactly what they are doing in the ProductPromoWorker.java file.  
Just search for the condition or action ID you're wondering about.

-David