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[QUESTION] Should we keep the Webhelp as is?

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Jacques Le Roux

[QUESTION] Should we keep the Webhelp as is?

Administrator

Hi All,

With https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-7906 "Have a Gradle build file for the cmssite component" Pierre Smits suggests to put back the jars
needed by the Webhelp .

We already discussed lengthy about Webhelp solution and I know some persons are not for it, at least as it's currently integrated in OFBiz.

Within https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-6644 "Webhelp umbrella task" Sharan said 4 days ago "I'd like to look at the Webhelp again in
relation to the new trunk with Gradle to see how it could be incorporated."

I also know that the Nereides team (Nicolas and Gil are among them) has a beside solution (called addon) based on the Webhelp work. There is also a
Webhelp branch https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/ofbiz/branches/webhelp-2012-12-07 .

So I'd like to know what are the opinions of the community members about this subject. Should we?

1) Keep the Webhelp as is in OFBiz, improve and really use it (so begin by applying OFBIZ-7906 patch)

2) Put the Webhelp in a (next coming) plugin component (ie out of the cmssite component). This would release the dependency to the cmssite component
but I fear this needs more work but I'd need confirmation from the Nereides team.

3) Drop the Webhelp

I hope nobody is for the point 3, because I remember the hard work we did with Tom (Burns) and the current help is ugly compared with what the Webhelp
can deliver (ie more than what we saw already which was already a great achievement IMO)

Thanks in advance for your feedback

Jacques

taher

Re: [QUESTION] Should we keep the Webhelp as is?

Hi Jacques,

This is one area where the discussion on the plugin system becomes
important (currently being discussed in another thread). Therefore, I
highly recommend we take a decision on the plugin system proposal to make
such decisions easier, not only for webhelp but other components as well.

The best option to me is to have the webhelp as a plugin where development
happens in /plugins. Whenever any component reaches enough stability,
features and user-base, then we can later upgrade it from a plugin to a
core component.

However, this option requires first approving the plugin system proposal as
I mentioned.

Taher Alkhateeb

On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 11:31 AM, Jacques Le Roux <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> With https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-7906 "Have a Gradle
> build file for the cmssite component" Pierre Smits suggests to put back the
> jars needed by the Webhelp .
>
> We already discussed lengthy about Webhelp solution and I know some
> persons are not for it, at least as it's currently integrated in OFBiz.
>
> Within https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-6644 "Webhelp umbrella
> task" Sharan said 4 days ago "I'd like to look at the Webhelp again in
> relation to the new trunk with Gradle to see how it could be incorporated."
>
> I also know that the Nereides team (Nicolas and Gil are among them) has a
> beside solution (called addon) based on the Webhelp work. There is also a
> Webhelp branch
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/ofbiz/branches/webhelp-2012-12-07 .
>
> So I'd like to know what are the opinions of the community members about
> this subject. Should we?
>
> 1) Keep the Webhelp as is in OFBiz, improve and really use it (so begin by
> applying OFBIZ-7906 patch)
>
> 2) Put the Webhelp in a (next coming) plugin component (ie out of the
> cmssite component). This would release the dependency to the cmssite
> component but I fear this needs more work but I'd need confirmation from
> the Nereides team.
>
> 3) Drop the Webhelp
>
> I hope nobody is for the point 3, because I remember the hard work we did
> with Tom (Burns) and the current help is ugly compared with what the
> Webhelp can deliver (ie more than what we saw already which was already a
> great achievement IMO)
>
> Thanks in advance for your feedback
>
> Jacques
>
>

Sharan-F

Re: [QUESTION] Should we keep the Webhelp as is?

In reply to this post by Jacques Le Roux

Hi Jacques

My preference would be the second option - to make the Webhelp into
some type of plug in, as that makes it more flexible, for languages etc.

I did do an initial analysis of the latest version of the Webhelp addon
from Nereide with all the files it uses but I need a developer to help
me implement it as I don't have the technical knowledge to do it. I did
have access to their repo so can check again for any updates. I'd be
happy to work on it but wouldn't be confident doing any code changes. so
would need to work with someone.

Thanks
Sharan

On 20/07/16 10:31, Jacques Le Roux wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> With https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-7906 "Have a Gradle
> build file for the cmssite component" Pierre Smits suggests to put
> back the jars needed by the Webhelp .
>
> We already discussed lengthy about Webhelp solution and I know some
> persons are not for it, at least as it's currently integrated in OFBiz.
>
> Within https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-6644 "Webhelp
> umbrella task" Sharan said 4 days ago "I'd like to look at the Webhelp
> again in relation to the new trunk with Gradle to see how it could be
> incorporated."
>
> I also know that the Nereides team (Nicolas and Gil are among them)
> has a beside solution (called addon) based on the Webhelp work. There
> is also a Webhelp branch
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/ofbiz/branches/webhelp-2012-12-07 .
>
> So I'd like to know what are the opinions of the community members
> about this subject. Should we?
>
> 1) Keep the Webhelp as is in OFBiz, improve and really use it (so
> begin by applying OFBIZ-7906 patch)
>
> 2) Put the Webhelp in a (next coming) plugin component (ie out of the
> cmssite component). This would release the dependency to the cmssite
> component but I fear this needs more work but I'd need confirmation
> from the Nereides team.
>
> 3) Drop the Webhelp
>
> I hope nobody is for the point 3, because I remember the hard work we
> did with Tom (Burns) and the current help is ugly compared with what
> the Webhelp can deliver (ie more than what we saw already which was
> already a great achievement IMO)
>
> Thanks in advance for your feedback
>
> Jacques
>

Pierre Smits

Re: [QUESTION] Should we keep the Webhelp as is?

I get more and more the impression from this 'plugin development' reference
in this tread and the other thread(s) (
http://ofbiz.markmail.org/message/6r4qnuu5v2c2aes2) that there is a vision
that revolves around something not living in the trunk branch of the OFBiz
repo.

If I am correct, we should revisit the discussion of separate repos for
components (Ron called it sub projects).

The whole idea behind the code of web help integration into cmssite led to:

- pre-emptive code implementation in trunk/specialpurpose/cmssite
- a dev branch being created to work on the new feature

If people want to work on having a proof of concept or a new feature, they
should do in outside forks, dev branches, etc before the community decides
on the added value to our adopters (meaning: to have it in trunk) and what
more needs to be done before before it can live in trunk.

The trunk should not be regarded as the development environment of any
contributor regarding new features and wishes. We should have learned by
now that all these pre-emptive code implementations lead to unused
bloatware, that (often) lead to clean-up expeditions afterwards.

Best regards,

Pierre Smits

ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>
OFBiz based solutions & services

OFBiz Extensions Marketplace
http://oem.ofbizci.net/oci-2/

On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 10:58 AM, Sharan Foga <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Jacques
>
> My preference would be the second option - to make the Webhelp into some
> type of plug in, as that makes it more flexible, for languages etc.
>
> I did do an initial analysis of the latest version of the Webhelp addon
> from Nereide with all the files it uses but I need a developer to help me
> implement it as I don't have the technical knowledge to do it. I did have
> access to their repo so can check again for any updates. I'd be happy to
> work on it but wouldn't be confident doing any code changes. so would need
> to work with someone.
>
> Thanks
> Sharan
>
>
>
> On 20/07/16 10:31, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> With https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-7906 "Have a Gradle
>> build file for the cmssite component" Pierre Smits suggests to put back the
>> jars needed by the Webhelp .
>>
>> We already discussed lengthy about Webhelp solution and I know some
>> persons are not for it, at least as it's currently integrated in OFBiz.
>>
>> Within https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-6644 "Webhelp
>> umbrella task" Sharan said 4 days ago "I'd like to look at the Webhelp
>> again in relation to the new trunk with Gradle to see how it could be
>> incorporated."
>>
>> I also know that the Nereides team (Nicolas and Gil are among them) has a
>> beside solution (called addon) based on the Webhelp work. There is also a
>> Webhelp branch
>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/ofbiz/branches/webhelp-2012-12-07 .
>>
>> So I'd like to know what are the opinions of the community members about
>> this subject. Should we?
>>
>> 1) Keep the Webhelp as is in OFBiz, improve and really use it (so begin
>> by applying OFBIZ-7906 patch)
>>
>> 2) Put the Webhelp in a (next coming) plugin component (ie out of the
>> cmssite component). This would release the dependency to the cmssite
>> component but I fear this needs more work but I'd need confirmation from
>> the Nereides team.
>>
>> 3) Drop the Webhelp
>>
>> I hope nobody is for the point 3, because I remember the hard work we did
>> with Tom (Burns) and the current help is ugly compared with what the
>> Webhelp can deliver (ie more than what we saw already which was already a
>> great achievement IMO)
>>
>> Thanks in advance for your feedback
>>
>> Jacques
>>
>>
>

Jacopo Cappellato-5

Re: [QUESTION] Should we keep the Webhelp as is?

In reply to this post by Jacques Le Roux

My preference is either #2 or #3

Jacopo

On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 10:31 AM, Jacques Le Roux <
[hidden email]> wrote:

Scott Gray-3

Re: [QUESTION] Should we keep the Webhelp as is?

I haven't been watching closely enough to have a preference. There's
millions of jira comments and Jacques alludes to some of the work being in
the trunk already, but there's also a branch? A summary of where we are
right now would be handy. I'm sure I remember objecting to compile-time
documentation builds in response to Tom's work way back when, but I can't
seem to find that discussion on the tickets.

Regards
Scott

On 22 July 2016 at 01:06, Jacopo Cappellato <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> My preference is either #2 or #3
>
> Jacopo
>
> On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 10:31 AM, Jacques Le Roux <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Hi All,
> >
> > With https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-7906 "Have a Gradle
> > build file for the cmssite component" Pierre Smits suggests to put back
> the
> > jars needed by the Webhelp .
> >
> > We already discussed lengthy about Webhelp solution and I know some
> > persons are not for it, at least as it's currently integrated in OFBiz.
> >
> > Within https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-6644 "Webhelp
> umbrella
> > task" Sharan said 4 days ago "I'd like to look at the Webhelp again in
> > relation to the new trunk with Gradle to see how it could be
> incorporated."
> >
> > I also know that the Nereides team (Nicolas and Gil are among them) has a
> > beside solution (called addon) based on the Webhelp work. There is also a
> > Webhelp branch
> > https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/ofbiz/branches/webhelp-2012-12-07 .
> >
> > So I'd like to know what are the opinions of the community members about
> > this subject. Should we?
> >
> > 1) Keep the Webhelp as is in OFBiz, improve and really use it (so begin
> by
> > applying OFBIZ-7906 patch)
> >
> > 2) Put the Webhelp in a (next coming) plugin component (ie out of the
> > cmssite component). This would release the dependency to the cmssite
> > component but I fear this needs more work but I'd need confirmation from
> > the Nereides team.
> >
> > 3) Drop the Webhelp
> >
> > I hope nobody is for the point 3, because I remember the hard work we did
> > with Tom (Burns) and the current help is ugly compared with what the
> > Webhelp can deliver (ie more than what we saw already which was already a
> > great achievement IMO)
> >
> > Thanks in advance for your feedback
> >
> > Jacques
> >
> >
>

Sharan-F

Re: [QUESTION] Should we keep the Webhelp as is?

Hi Scott

I can probably provide a quick summary.

The French team took the code from the branch, updated it and then
turned it into an OFBiz addon which lives in their ofbizextra
repository. They highlighted that their addon should be treated as the
latest code. There are some dependencies with some of their other OFBiz
addons that they created (e.g. portlet widget...) and it is managed by
Ivy and their Addon Manager application.

You are also right in the sense that the help documents need to be
compiled into HTML at build time to be able to be displayed. (I've been
recently using the Webhelp addon in relation to another project using
13.07. :-)

One of the reasons I thought the plugin option would be good - is
because it effectively is one already as it was never integrated into
the trunk.

Thanks
Sharan

On 21/07/16 15:18, Scott Gray wrote:

> I haven't been watching closely enough to have a preference. There's
> millions of jira comments and Jacques alludes to some of the work being in
> the trunk already, but there's also a branch? A summary of where we are
> right now would be handy. I'm sure I remember objecting to compile-time
> documentation builds in response to Tom's work way back when, but I can't
> seem to find that discussion on the tickets.
>
> Regards
> Scott
>
> On 22 July 2016 at 01:06, Jacopo Cappellato <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> My preference is either #2 or #3
>>
>> Jacopo
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 10:31 AM, Jacques Le Roux <
>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> With https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-7906 "Have a Gradle
>>> build file for the cmssite component" Pierre Smits suggests to put back
>> the
>>> jars needed by the Webhelp .
>>>
>>> We already discussed lengthy about Webhelp solution and I know some
>>> persons are not for it, at least as it's currently integrated in OFBiz.
>>>
>>> Within https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-6644 "Webhelp
>> umbrella
>>> task" Sharan said 4 days ago "I'd like to look at the Webhelp again in
>>> relation to the new trunk with Gradle to see how it could be
>> incorporated."
>>> I also know that the Nereides team (Nicolas and Gil are among them) has a
>>> beside solution (called addon) based on the Webhelp work. There is also a
>>> Webhelp branch
>>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/ofbiz/branches/webhelp-2012-12-07 .
>>>
>>> So I'd like to know what are the opinions of the community members about
>>> this subject. Should we?
>>>
>>> 1) Keep the Webhelp as is in OFBiz, improve and really use it (so begin
>> by
>>> applying OFBIZ-7906 patch)
>>>
>>> 2) Put the Webhelp in a (next coming) plugin component (ie out of the
>>> cmssite component). This would release the dependency to the cmssite
>>> component but I fear this needs more work but I'd need confirmation from
>>> the Nereides team.
>>>
>>> 3) Drop the Webhelp
>>>
>>> I hope nobody is for the point 3, because I remember the hard work we did
>>> with Tom (Burns) and the current help is ugly compared with what the
>>> Webhelp can deliver (ie more than what we saw already which was already a
>>> great achievement IMO)
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance for your feedback
>>>
>>> Jacques
>>>
>>>

Jacques Le Roux

Re: [QUESTION] Should we keep the Webhelp as is?

Administrator

In reply to this post by Scott Gray-3

What we have in trunk is not the work suggested by Tom. Tom's work is only in the webhelp-2012-12-07 branch, and in a Neereides addon.

So I proposed to enhance the current (ugly) help by incorporating the branch or (preferably?) Neereides addon. This is my point 1, the 2 other points
are unrelated with the branch and concern only the current help.

The point 2 is a proposition to have the current help in its own component and not mixed with cmssite (a wish). This could be done before and/or
independently from enhancing the current help.

The point 3 is a proposition to remove the current help

Then in the conclusion (flashback to point 1) I hoped we would not completely drop the current help because, even if ugly, IIRW Tom's work enhances
the current help. So it would be needed for the merge, but I'd have to check that (was in 2012):
http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?view=revision&revision=1418622

I hope it clarifies what I must say was not very clear

Jacques

Le 21/07/2016 à 15:18, Scott Gray a écrit :

Nicolas Malin-2

Re: [QUESTION] Should we keep the Webhelp as is?

In reply to this post by Jacques Le Roux

Hi

Le 20/07/2016 à 10:31, Jacques Le Roux a écrit :

My apologies but Nereide don't use the webhelp. The latest analyze that
I realized conclude that I useful but don't respect some basic OFBiz
aspect :
* don't use content to manage the content
* don't respect the component isolation

>
> So I'd like to know what are the opinions of the community members
> about this subject. Should we?
>
> 1) Keep the Webhelp as is in OFBiz, improve and really use it (so
> begin by applying OFBIZ-7906 patch)
>
> 2) Put the Webhelp in a (next coming) plugin component (ie out of the
> cmssite component). This would release the dependency to the cmssite
> component but I fear this needs more work but I'd need confirmation
> from the Nereides team.

+1 to put on extension/plugin/somethinglikethat and analyze a second
step when it's more ofbiz compliant ;)

>
> 3) Drop the Webhelp
>
> I hope nobody is for the point 3, because I remember the hard work we
> did with Tom (Burns) and the current help is ugly compared with what
> the Webhelp can deliver (ie more than what we saw already which was
> already a great achievement IMO)
>
> Thanks in advance for your feedback
>
> Jacques
>