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mikeymwong

Question on Rouning tasks

Hi All,

One quick question.

With the current version of OfBiz is it possible to create a "Rounting Task"
which can simulate a job that can be done by multiple workers?

All I can do now is a Task with an estimate usage time which will be
multiply with the quantity to calculate the estimate job end time. I can't
configure the task to if I can assign 2 workers to that task and the
estimate end time should be cut to half.

Thanks
Mike

jonwimp

Re: Question on Rouning tasks

Mike,

Once you start a routing task (when inside the Production Run screen), you can "Declare" certain
numbers for the routing task. I believe you can set the completion time there. Let me know what
you found? Thanks.

Jonathon

Mike Wong wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> One quick question.
>
> With the current version of OfBiz is it possible to create a "Rounting Task"
> which can simulate a job that can be done by multiple workers?
>
> All I can do now is a Task with an estimate usage time which will be
> multiply with the quantity to calculate the estimate job end time. I can't
> configure the task to if I can assign 2 workers to that task and the
> estimate end time should be cut to half.
>
> Thanks
> Mike
>
>
>

mikeymwong

RE: Question on Rouning tasks

Jonathon,

I've checked that I can only declare the actual setup time and the actual
time but not the number of the routing tasks. And the "Calculated
Completion date" won't change after I confirmed the "Production Run".

The question is how can I plan for a Production run.

e.g.

If I assign 10 workers to one of the task and the job can be completed on
25th Jan. But if I assign 20 workers to 2 of the task the job can be
completed on 10th Jan.

So I can play with that to plan for my resources usage.

Thanks
Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: Jonathon -- Improov [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 7:41 PM
To: [hidden email]
Cc: Tom Anderson
Subject: Re: Question on Rouning tasks

Mike,

Once you start a routing task (when inside the Production Run screen), you
can "Declare" certain
numbers for the routing task. I believe you can set the completion time
there. Let me know what
you found? Thanks.

Jonathon

Mike Wong wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> One quick question.
>
> With the current version of OfBiz is it possible to create a "Rounting
Task"
> which can simulate a job that can be done by multiple workers?
>
> All I can do now is a Task with an estimate usage time which will be
> multiply with the quantity to calculate the estimate job end time. I
can't
> configure the task to if I can assign 2 workers to that task and the
> estimate end time should be cut to half.
>
> Thanks
> Mike
>
>
>

jonwimp

Re: Question on Rouning tasks

Mike,

There could be a bug, so that "Calculated Completion date" won't change. But I'm not sure, since
I'm not 100% familiar with all the business logics there.

What do you mean by "assign 20 workers to 2 of the task"? Every task in a production run is a
distinct step. The first task could be "gather all the raw materials". So if 10 workers can gather
the raw materials in 10 hours, 20 workers would do so in 5.

Likewise for the 2nd task, say "assemble the raw materials".

Jonathon

Mike Wong wrote:

> Jonathon,
>
> I've checked that I can only declare the actual setup time and the actual
> time but not the number of the routing tasks. And the "Calculated
> Completion date" won't change after I confirmed the "Production Run".
>
> The question is how can I plan for a Production run.
>
> e.g.
>
> If I assign 10 workers to one of the task and the job can be completed on
> 25th Jan. But if I assign 20 workers to 2 of the task the job can be
> completed on 10th Jan.
>
> So I can play with that to plan for my resources usage.
>
> Thanks
> Mike
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jonathon -- Improov [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 7:41 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Cc: Tom Anderson
> Subject: Re: Question on Rouning tasks
>
> Mike,
>
> Once you start a routing task (when inside the Production Run screen), you
> can "Declare" certain
> numbers for the routing task. I believe you can set the completion time
> there. Let me know what
> you found? Thanks.
>
> Jonathon
>
> Mike Wong wrote:
>> Hi All,
>>
>> One quick question.
>>
>> With the current version of OfBiz is it possible to create a "Rounting
> Task"
>> which can simulate a job that can be done by multiple workers?
>>
>> All I can do now is a Task with an estimate usage time which will be
>> multiply with the quantity to calculate the estimate job end time. I
> can't
>> configure the task to if I can assign 2 workers to that task and the
>> estimate end time should be cut to half.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Mike
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>

mikeymwong

RE: Question on Rouning tasks

Jonathon,

Yes, this is exactly what I want to achieve - "10 workers can gather
the raw materials in 10 hours, 20 workers would do so in 5"

As of now I can't figure out how to do it.

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: Jonathon -- Improov [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 10:08 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Question on Rouning tasks

Mike,

There could be a bug, so that "Calculated Completion date" won't change. But
I'm not sure, since
I'm not 100% familiar with all the business logics there.

What do you mean by "assign 20 workers to 2 of the task"? Every task in a
production run is a
distinct step. The first task could be "gather all the raw materials". So if
10 workers can gather
the raw materials in 10 hours, 20 workers would do so in 5.

Likewise for the 2nd task, say "assemble the raw materials".

Jonathon

Mike Wong wrote:

jonwimp

Re: Question on Rouning tasks

Mike,

I tried it myself. It seems that the "Calculated Completion Date", whether for the production run
or the individual routing tasks, will not change. (Can anyone familiar with this confirm this?).

To denote actual time spent, click on "Declare". In the field "Add Actual Task Time", key in the
actual time it would take (in seconds, sorry for big number!), say 60 (for 60 seconds). Your
"Actual Time" field will show 60 (seconds).

Then when you have an extra worker, you will then enter -30 into the field "Add Actual Task Time",
and your "Actual Time" field will now show 30 (seconds).

Note that your actual start time for the entire production run will be the time you start your
first routing task.

Sorry, it seems you can't specify the start time ("From Date") for each routing task. So, yeah, it
seems the value for "Actual Time" looks disembodied.

Yes, I know that it's irritating and counter-intuitive that the "Calculated Completion Date"
values don't show you the changes. Even the "From Date" and "To Date" for each routing task don't
seem to work at all.

But no worries! We can easily fix that! Or would you mind submitting a fix for that yourself?

Jonathon

Mike Wong wrote:

> Jonathon,
>
> Yes, this is exactly what I want to achieve - "10 workers can gather
> the raw materials in 10 hours, 20 workers would do so in 5"
>
> As of now I can't figure out how to do it.
>
> Mike
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jonathon -- Improov [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 10:08 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: Question on Rouning tasks
>
> Mike,
>
> There could be a bug, so that "Calculated Completion date" won't change. But
> I'm not sure, since
> I'm not 100% familiar with all the business logics there.
>
> What do you mean by "assign 20 workers to 2 of the task"? Every task in a
> production run is a
> distinct step. The first task could be "gather all the raw materials". So if
> 10 workers can gather
> the raw materials in 10 hours, 20 workers would do so in 5.
>
> Likewise for the 2nd task, say "assemble the raw materials".
>
> Jonathon
>
> Mike Wong wrote:
>> Jonathon,
>>
>> I've checked that I can only declare the actual setup time and the actual
>> time but not the number of the routing tasks. And the "Calculated
>> Completion date" won't change after I confirmed the "Production Run".
>>
>> The question is how can I plan for a Production run.
>>
>> e.g.
>>
>> If I assign 10 workers to one of the task and the job can be completed on
>> 25th Jan. But if I assign 20 workers to 2 of the task the job can be
>> completed on 10th Jan.
>>
>> So I can play with that to plan for my resources usage.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Mike
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Jonathon -- Improov [mailto:[hidden email]]
>> Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 7:41 PM
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Cc: Tom Anderson
>> Subject: Re: Question on Rouning tasks
>>
>> Mike,
>>
>> Once you start a routing task (when inside the Production Run screen), you
>> can "Declare" certain
>> numbers for the routing task. I believe you can set the completion time
>> there. Let me know what
>> you found? Thanks.
>>
>> Jonathon
>>
>> Mike Wong wrote:
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> One quick question.
>>>
>>> With the current version of OfBiz is it possible to create a "Rounting
>> Task"
>>> which can simulate a job that can be done by multiple workers?
>>>
>>> All I can do now is a Task with an estimate usage time which will be
>>> multiply with the quantity to calculate the estimate job end time. I
>> can't
>>> configure the task to if I can assign 2 workers to that task and the
>>> estimate end time should be cut to half.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Mike
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>

mikeymwong

RE: Question on Rouning tasks

Jonathon,

Thanks for the advice.

I just figure out another way to help me to have a more useful "Calculated
Completion Date" when I plan a production run.

I first create different tasks for the same purpose, e.g.

1) 10 workers to gather all the raw materials
2) 20 workers to gather all the raw materials

but each with a different "Estimated Run Time".

So that I can assign different tasks to the job and have it re-calculate the
"Calculated Completion Date" before I confirm the job.

My next question is how to reserve the fixed asset that has a job already
associated with. So as to prevent the fixed asset being occupy by more than
one job at one time.

Regarding the fix for the "Calculated Completion Date", I think the current
behavior is correct and is what we should expect.

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: Jonathon -- Improov [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 1:26 AM
To: [hidden email]; Tom Anderson
Subject: Re: Question on Rouning tasks

Mike,

I tried it myself. It seems that the "Calculated Completion Date", whether
for the production run
or the individual routing tasks, will not change. (Can anyone familiar with
this confirm this?).

To denote actual time spent, click on "Declare". In the field "Add Actual
Task Time", key in the
actual time it would take (in seconds, sorry for big number!), say 60 (for
60 seconds). Your
"Actual Time" field will show 60 (seconds).

Then when you have an extra worker, you will then enter -30 into the field
"Add Actual Task Time",
and your "Actual Time" field will now show 30 (seconds).

Note that your actual start time for the entire production run will be the
time you start your
first routing task.

Sorry, it seems you can't specify the start time ("From Date") for each
routing task. So, yeah, it
seems the value for "Actual Time" looks disembodied.

Yes, I know that it's irritating and counter-intuitive that the "Calculated
Completion Date"
values don't show you the changes. Even the "From Date" and "To Date" for
each routing task don't
seem to work at all.

But no worries! We can easily fix that! Or would you mind submitting a fix
for that yourself?

Jonathon

Mike Wong wrote:

But
> I'm not sure, since
> I'm not 100% familiar with all the business logics there.
>
> What do you mean by "assign 20 workers to 2 of the task"? Every task in a
> production run is a
> distinct step. The first task could be "gather all the raw materials". So
if

> 10 workers can gather
> the raw materials in 10 hours, 20 workers would do so in 5.
>
> Likewise for the 2nd task, say "assemble the raw materials".
>
> Jonathon
>
> Mike Wong wrote:
>> Jonathon,
>>
>> I've checked that I can only declare the actual setup time and the actual
>> time but not the number of the routing tasks. And the "Calculated
>> Completion date" won't change after I confirmed the "Production Run".
>>
>> The question is how can I plan for a Production run.
>>
>> e.g.
>>
>> If I assign 10 workers to one of the task and the job can be completed on
>> 25th Jan. But if I assign 20 workers to 2 of the task the job can be
>> completed on 10th Jan.
>>
>> So I can play with that to plan for my resources usage.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Mike
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Jonathon -- Improov [mailto:[hidden email]]
>> Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 7:41 PM
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Cc: Tom Anderson
>> Subject: Re: Question on Rouning tasks
>>
>> Mike,
>>
>> Once you start a routing task (when inside the Production Run screen),

you

>> can "Declare" certain
>> numbers for the routing task. I believe you can set the completion time
>> there. Let me know what
>> you found? Thanks.
>>
>> Jonathon
>>
>> Mike Wong wrote:
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> One quick question.
>>>
>>> With the current version of OfBiz is it possible to create a "Rounting
>> Task"
>>> which can simulate a job that can be done by multiple workers?
>>>
>>> All I can do now is a Task with an estimate usage time which will be
>>> multiply with the quantity to calculate the estimate job end time. I
>> can't
>>> configure the task to if I can assign 2 workers to that task and the
>>> estimate end time should be cut to half.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Mike
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>

jonwimp

Re: Question on Rouning tasks

Mike,

First of all, good to hear from you again! I'm currently in over my head customizing OFBiz for a
manufacturing operation. I think we can really help each other out! Welcome back!

Ask questions here frequently, so I can tell you what you don't know (if I know it). Also, try to
tell me what I don't know (that you know). In other words, "Help me Mike!". Thanks in advance. :)
That way, we won't waste time figuring things out that others have already discovered. All these
you are already doing. So, thanks!

To get you started, let me explain the terms I use:

Routing --- (aka ROUTING or Production Run template)
A collection of Routing Tasks (see below) to produce 0/more of a number
(1/more) of types of products. Here, you'll notice that you can use a single
Routing to produce a variety of types of products. Eg, you can use Routing
"Make_Soup_Noodle" to produce products "Spicy_Soup_Noodle" and
"Tangy_Soup_Noodle" and so on.

Routing Task --- (aka ROU_TASK or Task Run template)
A single task or step in the production of a product

Production Run --- (aka PROD_ORDER_HEADER)
An instance of a Routing, and also a collection of Task Runs (see below). So
you can have 10 Production Runs of the Routing "Make_Soup_Noodle" if you have
10 SO OrderItem(s) (SalesOrder order items) asking for soup noodles. NOTE:
Each Production Run can produce only a single type of product, but can produce
0/more.

Task Run --- (aka PROD_ORDER_TASK or ProductionRun RoutingTask on front-end)
An instance of a Routing Task.

Given the above, I'm also prompted to ask the community if it is possible to have a Routing Task
produce a product/component? Or are Production Runs the only way to produce anything at all? If
that's the case, we'll have to have a very nested tree of Production Runs just to produce
something as complicated as a bicycle with many subassemblies/components.

I suspect a Task Run can produce subassemblies/components. Can somebody confirm this?

> I just figure out another way to help me to have a more useful "Calculated
> Completion Date" when I plan a production run.
>
> I first create different tasks for the same purpose, e.g.
>
> 1) 10 workers to gather all the raw materials
> 2) 20 workers to gather all the raw materials
>
> but each with a different "Estimated Run Time".
>
> So that I can assign different tasks to the job and have it re-calculate the
> "Calculated Completion Date" before I confirm the job.

Question. You managed to assign different Routing Tasks to different Production Runs (say they're
instantiated from Routing "Make_Soup_Noodle")? I thought it was only possible to assign Routing
Tasks to Routings, and not to Production Runs.

Or did you mean you had to create 2 different Routings, one "Make_Soup_Noodle" and another
"Make_Soup_Noodle_Faster" in order to achieve the above? If so, that sounds counter-intuitive. Why
not try to fix OFBiz to allow for adjustments of production capacity inside a Production Run
(rather than inside the template which is the Routing itself)?

But if you think the above "workaround" serves you, I'd say go for it. I may be inclined to adopt
that "workaround" too. In that case, thanks for the hint, Mike! Good catch.

> My next question is how to reserve the fixed asset that has a job already
> associated with. So as to prevent the fixed asset being occupy by more than
> one job at one time.

I don't think you can. There is currently no logic to do so (correct me if I'm wrong). I never
thought about this. I think you're right that this should be standard logic in manufacturing. We
need to consider production capacity of every fixed asset (teams of human/robot workers,
factories, sewing machines, etc). No sewing machine can sew an infinite number of shirts at one
time (can there?).

I'll look into this. (I mean reserving/occupying fixed assets, not the Super Sewing Machine.)

> Regarding the fix for the "Calculated Completion Date", I think the current
> behavior is correct and is what we should expect.

It is? Why wouldn't you want the "Calculated Completion Date" to change to reflect any changes in
your Task Runs?

Jonathon

Mike Wong wrote:

> Jonathon,
>
> Thanks for the advice.
>
> I just figure out another way to help me to have a more useful "Calculated
> Completion Date" when I plan a production run.
>
> I first create different tasks for the same purpose, e.g.
>
> 1) 10 workers to gather all the raw materials
> 2) 20 workers to gather all the raw materials
>
> but each with a different "Estimated Run Time".
>
> So that I can assign different tasks to the job and have it re-calculate the
> "Calculated Completion Date" before I confirm the job.
>
> My next question is how to reserve the fixed asset that has a job already
> associated with. So as to prevent the fixed asset being occupy by more than
> one job at one time.
>
> Regarding the fix for the "Calculated Completion Date", I think the current
> behavior is correct and is what we should expect.
>
>
> Mike
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jonathon -- Improov [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 1:26 AM
> To: [hidden email]; Tom Anderson
> Subject: Re: Question on Rouning tasks
>
> Mike,
>
> I tried it myself. It seems that the "Calculated Completion Date", whether
> for the production run
> or the individual routing tasks, will not change. (Can anyone familiar with
> this confirm this?).
>
> To denote actual time spent, click on "Declare". In the field "Add Actual
> Task Time", key in the
> actual time it would take (in seconds, sorry for big number!), say 60 (for
> 60 seconds). Your
> "Actual Time" field will show 60 (seconds).
>
> Then when you have an extra worker, you will then enter -30 into the field
> "Add Actual Task Time",
> and your "Actual Time" field will now show 30 (seconds).
>
> Note that your actual start time for the entire production run will be the
> time you start your
> first routing task.
>
> Sorry, it seems you can't specify the start time ("From Date") for each
> routing task. So, yeah, it
> seems the value for "Actual Time" looks disembodied.
>
> Yes, I know that it's irritating and counter-intuitive that the "Calculated
> Completion Date"
> values don't show you the changes. Even the "From Date" and "To Date" for
> each routing task don't
> seem to work at all.
>
> But no worries! We can easily fix that! Or would you mind submitting a fix
> for that yourself?
>
> Jonathon
>
> Mike Wong wrote:
>> Jonathon,
>>
>> Yes, this is exactly what I want to achieve - "10 workers can gather
>> the raw materials in 10 hours, 20 workers would do so in 5"
>>
>> As of now I can't figure out how to do it.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Jonathon -- Improov [mailto:[hidden email]]
>> Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 10:08 PM
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: Question on Rouning tasks
>>
>> Mike,
>>
>> There could be a bug, so that "Calculated Completion date" won't change.
> But
>> I'm not sure, since
>> I'm not 100% familiar with all the business logics there.
>>
>> What do you mean by "assign 20 workers to 2 of the task"? Every task in a
>> production run is a
>> distinct step. The first task could be "gather all the raw materials". So
> if
>> 10 workers can gather
>> the raw materials in 10 hours, 20 workers would do so in 5.
>>
>> Likewise for the 2nd task, say "assemble the raw materials".
>>
>> Jonathon
>>
>> Mike Wong wrote:
>>> Jonathon,
>>>
>>> I've checked that I can only declare the actual setup time and the actual
>>> time but not the number of the routing tasks. And the "Calculated
>>> Completion date" won't change after I confirmed the "Production Run".
>>>
>>> The question is how can I plan for a Production run.
>>>
>>> e.g.
>>>
>>> If I assign 10 workers to one of the task and the job can be completed on
>>> 25th Jan. But if I assign 20 workers to 2 of the task the job can be
>>> completed on 10th Jan.
>>>
>>> So I can play with that to plan for my resources usage.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Jonathon -- Improov [mailto:[hidden email]]
>>> Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 7:41 PM
>>> To: [hidden email]
>>> Cc: Tom Anderson
>>> Subject: Re: Question on Rouning tasks
>>>
>>> Mike,
>>>
>>> Once you start a routing task (when inside the Production Run screen),
> you
>>> can "Declare" certain
>>> numbers for the routing task. I believe you can set the completion time
>>> there. Let me know what
>>> you found? Thanks.
>>>
>>> Jonathon
>>>
>>> Mike Wong wrote:
>>>> Hi All,
>>>>
>>>> One quick question.
>>>>
>>>> With the current version of OfBiz is it possible to create a "Rounting
>>> Task"
>>>> which can simulate a job that can be done by multiple workers?
>>>>
>>>> All I can do now is a Task with an estimate usage time which will be
>>>> multiply with the quantity to calculate the estimate job end time. I
>>> can't
>>>> configure the task to if I can assign 2 workers to that task and the
>>>> estimate end time should be cut to half.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>> Mike
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>

Jacopo Cappellato

Re: Question on Rouning tasks

Jonhaton,

>...
>
> Given the above, I'm also prompted to ask the community if it is
> possible to have a Routing Task produce a product/component? Or are
> Production Runs the only way to produce anything at all? If that's the
> case, we'll have to have a very nested tree of Production Runs just to
> produce something as complicated as a bicycle with many
> subassemblies/components.
>
> I suspect a Task Run can produce subassemblies/components. Can somebody
> confirm this?
>

if the subassemblies that are produced will never go into warehouse, and
will be consumed by the production run itself, then you should define
them as WIP (Work In Process) products: there is a service available
(sorry I don't remember its name) that given a finished product (or a
sales order item, or a shipment plan [*]) that will create one
production run for each of the WIP subassemblies and one production run
for the finished product all linked together (so that the production run
for the finished product product can only start after the lower level
ones are completed).

I don't have time to explain more about this shipment plan process (but
you'll find old posts about this in the archieves) but the basic idea is
that:
1) you enter some sales order (items) for products that need manufacturing
2) you create an empty shipment, then assign to it, using the "shipment
plan" panel in the shipment pages, the order items to it (that need
manufacturing): the shipment plan (and its estimated shipment date)
represents the goal that the manufacturing facility should fulfill; the
approved (I don't remember exactly the status, verify this) shipment
plans are shown in the Manufacturing-> shipment plan screen and from
there you can (with one click) create all the required production run
for the finished products (and all the production runs for the wips
attached to them, if any)

At least one of our customers is using this stuff, and they are using
some customized reports to verify materials availability (they were not
interested in workcenter scheduling)

search in the archives about these terms for example enter this text in
the google search input box: +shipment-plan site:ofbiz.org

Jacopo

PS: I'd suggest to create a new page in the open wiki space of OFBiz to
enter you notes about what you are implementing (or trying to
implement), etc... such as the definitions of production runs, tasks
etc... and also my notes (if they work for you) so that it will be
easier for others too to share information etc...

> ...
> > My next question is how to reserve the fixed asset that has a job
> already
> > associated with. So as to prevent the fixed asset being occupy by
> more than
> > one job at one time.
>
> I don't think you can. There is currently no logic to do so (correct me
> if I'm wrong). I never thought about this. I think you're right that
> this should be standard logic in manufacturing. We need to consider
> production capacity of every fixed asset (teams of human/robot workers,
> factories, sewing machines, etc). No sewing machine can sew an infinite
> number of shirts at one time (can there?).

Infinite capacity scheduling is the standard process in most
manufacturing processes (and ERP systems); finite scheduling is mostly
handled by external packages (sometimes tightly linked to the machines
to get realtime scheduling).
In OFBiz finite scheduling is NOT implemented.
In OFBiz infinite scheduling and production run management has been
implemented (not by me) a lot of time ago; no one of my customers is
really using infinite scheduling (so it could contain some bugs or
limitations, you'll have to test it) and about the production run
management, they are using it but in a rather simple way (so not
everything you see is truted to work ootb).

Jacopo

jonwimp

Re: Question on Rouning tasks

Jacopo,

Thanks for heads up on the WIP! Invaluable advice.

So you're saying that Task Runs (PROD_ORDER_TASK) can never produce anything by themselves (inside
context of a Production Run PROD_ORDER_HEADER)? Then what does the "Deliverable Products" tab in
"Edit Routing Task" function do?

Seems like the Manufacturing module is choke full of skeletal half-implemented concepts. Maybe we
should:

1. Round off all half-implemented concepts so newcomers don't have so many red
herrings to deal with.

2. Document all fully-implemented concepts so newcomers know that undocumented
concepts are either not there or not fully there.

What do you think?

I'm willing to help, as long as you continue to give me such invaluable pointers! I know you must
have forgotten many of the functionalities you coded. But as long as you point me the way, I can
take apart OFBiz quickly to document it. Deal?

Do note that I'm not exactly your average newcomer, so you don't have to expand on everything you
say. Just an idea will do. Like how Scott Gray pointed "Manufacturing Rules" and I kinda
documented on ML about your "Virtual BOMs" doing away with need for man extraneous "Manufacturing
Rules".

Please help. And thanks for all the help so far, and all you've done for Manufacturing module!

Jonathon

Jacopo Cappellato wrote:

> Jonhaton,
>
>> ...
>>
>> Given the above, I'm also prompted to ask the community if it is
>> possible to have a Routing Task produce a product/component? Or are
>> Production Runs the only way to produce anything at all? If that's the
>> case, we'll have to have a very nested tree of Production Runs just to
>> produce something as complicated as a bicycle with many
>> subassemblies/components.
>>
>> I suspect a Task Run can produce subassemblies/components. Can
>> somebody confirm this?
>>
>
> if the subassemblies that are produced will never go into warehouse, and
> will be consumed by the production run itself, then you should define
> them as WIP (Work In Process) products: there is a service available
> (sorry I don't remember its name) that given a finished product (or a
> sales order item, or a shipment plan [*]) that will create one
> production run for each of the WIP subassemblies and one production run
> for the finished product all linked together (so that the production run
> for the finished product product can only start after the lower level
> ones are completed).
>
>
> I don't have time to explain more about this shipment plan process (but
> you'll find old posts about this in the archieves) but the basic idea is
> that:
> 1) you enter some sales order (items) for products that need manufacturing
> 2) you create an empty shipment, then assign to it, using the "shipment
> plan" panel in the shipment pages, the order items to it (that need
> manufacturing): the shipment plan (and its estimated shipment date)
> represents the goal that the manufacturing facility should fulfill; the
> approved (I don't remember exactly the status, verify this) shipment
> plans are shown in the Manufacturing-> shipment plan screen and from
> there you can (with one click) create all the required production run
> for the finished products (and all the production runs for the wips
> attached to them, if any)
>
> At least one of our customers is using this stuff, and they are using
> some customized reports to verify materials availability (they were not
> interested in workcenter scheduling)
>
> search in the archives about these terms for example enter this text in
> the google search input box: +shipment-plan site:ofbiz.org
>
> Jacopo
>
> PS: I'd suggest to create a new page in the open wiki space of OFBiz to
> enter you notes about what you are implementing (or trying to
> implement), etc... such as the definitions of production runs, tasks
> etc... and also my notes (if they work for you) so that it will be
> easier for others too to share information etc...
>
>> ...
>> > My next question is how to reserve the fixed asset that has a job
>> already
>> > associated with. So as to prevent the fixed asset being occupy by
>> more than
>> > one job at one time.
>>
>> I don't think you can. There is currently no logic to do so (correct
>> me if I'm wrong). I never thought about this. I think you're right
>> that this should be standard logic in manufacturing. We need to
>> consider production capacity of every fixed asset (teams of
>> human/robot workers, factories, sewing machines, etc). No sewing
>> machine can sew an infinite number of shirts at one time (can there?).
>
> Infinite capacity scheduling is the standard process in most
> manufacturing processes (and ERP systems); finite scheduling is mostly
> handled by external packages (sometimes tightly linked to the machines
> to get realtime scheduling).
> In OFBiz finite scheduling is NOT implemented.
> In OFBiz infinite scheduling and production run management has been
> implemented (not by me) a lot of time ago; no one of my customers is
> really using infinite scheduling (so it could contain some bugs or
> limitations, you'll have to test it) and about the production run
> management, they are using it but in a rather simple way (so not
> everything you see is truted to work ootb).
>
> Jacopo
>
>
>
>

mikeymwong

RE: Question on Rouning tasks

In reply to this post by jonwimp

Jonathon,

Sure, I'm more than happy if I can give help to you and the community and
also I'm sure I'll post my question here and ask for help.

Yes, you're right. I'm talking about adding/editing Routing to the
Production run and this is only a workaround for my coming ofbiz
demonstration.

I didn't have time to think about what is the long term solution, may be
you're right we should amend the ofbiz code to allow user to enter a
capacity for each routing task. But I think this would be a big task,
right?

From what I see, the "Calculated Completion Date" is a date stated when the
job should be complete, an estimation. Then we can use the actual time to
do a comparison with the "Calculated Completion Date" to check how realistic
our estimation is.

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: Jonathon -- Improov [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 5:23 PM
To: [hidden email]
Cc: Tom Anderson; Ian McNulty
Subject: Re: Question on Rouning tasks

Mike,

First of all, good to hear from you again! I'm currently in over my head
customizing OFBiz for a
manufacturing operation. I think we can really help each other out! Welcome
back!

Ask questions here frequently, so I can tell you what you don't know (if I
know it). Also, try to
tell me what I don't know (that you know). In other words, "Help me Mike!".
Thanks in advance. :)
That way, we won't waste time figuring things out that others have already
discovered. All these
you are already doing. So, thanks!

To get you started, let me explain the terms I use:

Routing --- (aka ROUTING or Production Run template)
A collection of Routing Tasks (see below) to produce 0/more of a number
(1/more) of types of products. Here, you'll notice that you can use a
single
Routing to produce a variety of types of products. Eg, you can use Routing
"Make_Soup_Noodle" to produce products "Spicy_Soup_Noodle" and
"Tangy_Soup_Noodle" and so on.

Routing Task --- (aka ROU_TASK or Task Run template)
A single task or step in the production of a product

Production Run --- (aka PROD_ORDER_HEADER)
An instance of a Routing, and also a collection of Task Runs (see below).
So
you can have 10 Production Runs of the Routing "Make_Soup_Noodle" if you
have
10 SO OrderItem(s) (SalesOrder order items) asking for soup noodles. NOTE:
Each Production Run can produce only a single type of product, but can
produce
0/more.

Task Run --- (aka PROD_ORDER_TASK or ProductionRun RoutingTask on front-end)
An instance of a Routing Task.

Given the above, I'm also prompted to ask the community if it is possible to
have a Routing Task
produce a product/component? Or are Production Runs the only way to produce
anything at all? If
that's the case, we'll have to have a very nested tree of Production Runs
just to produce
something as complicated as a bicycle with many subassemblies/components.

I suspect a Task Run can produce subassemblies/components. Can somebody
confirm this?

> I just figure out another way to help me to have a more useful
"Calculated
> Completion Date" when I plan a production run.
>
> I first create different tasks for the same purpose, e.g.
>
> 1) 10 workers to gather all the raw materials
> 2) 20 workers to gather all the raw materials
>
> but each with a different "Estimated Run Time".
>
> So that I can assign different tasks to the job and have it re-calculate
the
> "Calculated Completion Date" before I confirm the job.

Question. You managed to assign different Routing Tasks to different
Production Runs (say they're
instantiated from Routing "Make_Soup_Noodle")? I thought it was only
possible to assign Routing
Tasks to Routings, and not to Production Runs.

Or did you mean you had to create 2 different Routings, one
"Make_Soup_Noodle" and another
"Make_Soup_Noodle_Faster" in order to achieve the above? If so, that sounds
counter-intuitive. Why
not try to fix OFBiz to allow for adjustments of production capacity inside
a Production Run
(rather than inside the template which is the Routing itself)?

But if you think the above "workaround" serves you, I'd say go for it. I may
be inclined to adopt
that "workaround" too. In that case, thanks for the hint, Mike! Good catch.

> My next question is how to reserve the fixed asset that has a job already
> associated with. So as to prevent the fixed asset being occupy by more
than
> one job at one time.

I don't think you can. There is currently no logic to do so (correct me if
I'm wrong). I never
thought about this. I think you're right that this should be standard logic
in manufacturing. We
need to consider production capacity of every fixed asset (teams of
human/robot workers,
factories, sewing machines, etc). No sewing machine can sew an infinite
number of shirts at one
time (can there?).

I'll look into this. (I mean reserving/occupying fixed assets, not the Super
Sewing Machine.)

> Regarding the fix for the "Calculated Completion Date", I think the
current
> behavior is correct and is what we should expect.

It is? Why wouldn't you want the "Calculated Completion Date" to change to
reflect any changes in
your Task Runs?

Jonathon

Mike Wong wrote:

the
> "Calculated Completion Date" before I confirm the job.
>
> My next question is how to reserve the fixed asset that has a job already
> associated with. So as to prevent the fixed asset being occupy by more
than
> one job at one time.
>
> Regarding the fix for the "Calculated Completion Date", I think the
current

> behavior is correct and is what we should expect.
>
>
> Mike
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jonathon -- Improov [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 1:26 AM
> To: [hidden email]; Tom Anderson
> Subject: Re: Question on Rouning tasks
>
> Mike,
>
> I tried it myself. It seems that the "Calculated Completion Date", whether
> for the production run
> or the individual routing tasks, will not change. (Can anyone familiar

with

> this confirm this?).
>
> To denote actual time spent, click on "Declare". In the field "Add Actual
> Task Time", key in the
> actual time it would take (in seconds, sorry for big number!), say 60 (for
> 60 seconds). Your
> "Actual Time" field will show 60 (seconds).
>
> Then when you have an extra worker, you will then enter -30 into the field
> "Add Actual Task Time",
> and your "Actual Time" field will now show 30 (seconds).
>
> Note that your actual start time for the entire production run will be the
> time you start your
> first routing task.
>
> Sorry, it seems you can't specify the start time ("From Date") for each
> routing task. So, yeah, it
> seems the value for "Actual Time" looks disembodied.
>
> Yes, I know that it's irritating and counter-intuitive that the

"Calculated

> Completion Date"
> values don't show you the changes. Even the "From Date" and "To Date" for
> each routing task don't
> seem to work at all.
>
> But no worries! We can easily fix that! Or would you mind submitting a fix
> for that yourself?
>
> Jonathon
>
> Mike Wong wrote:
>> Jonathon,
>>
>> Yes, this is exactly what I want to achieve - "10 workers can gather
>> the raw materials in 10 hours, 20 workers would do so in 5"
>>
>> As of now I can't figure out how to do it.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Jonathon -- Improov [mailto:[hidden email]]
>> Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 10:08 PM
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: Question on Rouning tasks
>>
>> Mike,
>>
>> There could be a bug, so that "Calculated Completion date" won't change.
> But
>> I'm not sure, since
>> I'm not 100% familiar with all the business logics there.
>>
>> What do you mean by "assign 20 workers to 2 of the task"? Every task in a
>> production run is a
>> distinct step. The first task could be "gather all the raw materials". So
> if
>> 10 workers can gather
>> the raw materials in 10 hours, 20 workers would do so in 5.
>>
>> Likewise for the 2nd task, say "assemble the raw materials".
>>
>> Jonathon
>>
>> Mike Wong wrote:
>>> Jonathon,
>>>
>>> I've checked that I can only declare the actual setup time and the

actual
>>> time but not the number of the routing tasks. And the "Calculated
>>> Completion date" won't change after I confirmed the "Production Run".
>>>
>>> The question is how can I plan for a Production run.
>>>
>>> e.g.
>>>
>>> If I assign 10 workers to one of the task and the job can be completed
on

>>> 25th Jan. But if I assign 20 workers to 2 of the task the job can be
>>> completed on 10th Jan.
>>>
>>> So I can play with that to plan for my resources usage.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Jonathon -- Improov [mailto:[hidden email]]
>>> Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 7:41 PM
>>> To: [hidden email]
>>> Cc: Tom Anderson
>>> Subject: Re: Question on Rouning tasks
>>>
>>> Mike,
>>>
>>> Once you start a routing task (when inside the Production Run screen),
> you
>>> can "Declare" certain
>>> numbers for the routing task. I believe you can set the completion time
>>> there. Let me know what
>>> you found? Thanks.
>>>
>>> Jonathon
>>>
>>> Mike Wong wrote:
>>>> Hi All,
>>>>
>>>> One quick question.
>>>>
>>>> With the current version of OfBiz is it possible to create a "Rounting
>>> Task"
>>>> which can simulate a job that can be done by multiple workers?
>>>>
>>>> All I can do now is a Task with an estimate usage time which will be
>>>> multiply with the quantity to calculate the estimate job end time. I
>>> can't
>>>> configure the task to if I can assign 2 workers to that task and the
>>>> estimate end time should be cut to half.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>> Mike
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>

jonwimp

Re: Question on Rouning tasks

Mike,

I hope all goes well with your demonstration.

And Mike, if your demonstration audience tells you anything like "functionalities seem incomplete,
awkward workarounds", don't worry. Tell them "OFBiz framework is solid and has tremendous
long-term benefits in terms of EXTENSIBILITY".

I'd be happy to demonstrate exactly why that is, put my money where my mouth is.

Objective? Tell them we've got the engine real solid, and putting the car body around it is more
trivial, not expensive.

Anyway, whatever happens, you can come back to report your success or to wail at us (or just me).
We'll help in whatever way we can.

Just come back. :)

Jonathon

Mike Wong wrote:

> Jonathon,
>
> Sure, I'm more than happy if I can give help to you and the community and
> also I'm sure I'll post my question here and ask for help.
>
> Yes, you're right. I'm talking about adding/editing Routing to the
> Production run and this is only a workaround for my coming ofbiz
> demonstration.
>
> I didn't have time to think about what is the long term solution, may be
> you're right we should amend the ofbiz code to allow user to enter a
> capacity for each routing task. But I think this would be a big task,
> right?
>
>>From what I see, the "Calculated Completion Date" is a date stated when the
> job should be complete, an estimation. Then we can use the actual time to
> do a comparison with the "Calculated Completion Date" to check how realistic
> our estimation is.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jonathon -- Improov [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 5:23 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Cc: Tom Anderson; Ian McNulty
> Subject: Re: Question on Rouning tasks
>
> Mike,
>
> First of all, good to hear from you again! I'm currently in over my head
> customizing OFBiz for a
> manufacturing operation. I think we can really help each other out! Welcome
> back!
>
> Ask questions here frequently, so I can tell you what you don't know (if I
> know it). Also, try to
> tell me what I don't know (that you know). In other words, "Help me Mike!".
> Thanks in advance. :)
> That way, we won't waste time figuring things out that others have already
> discovered. All these
> you are already doing. So, thanks!
>
> To get you started, let me explain the terms I use:
>
> Routing --- (aka ROUTING or Production Run template)
> A collection of Routing Tasks (see below) to produce 0/more of a number
> (1/more) of types of products. Here, you'll notice that you can use a
> single
> Routing to produce a variety of types of products. Eg, you can use Routing
> "Make_Soup_Noodle" to produce products "Spicy_Soup_Noodle" and
> "Tangy_Soup_Noodle" and so on.
>
> Routing Task --- (aka ROU_TASK or Task Run template)
> A single task or step in the production of a product
>
> Production Run --- (aka PROD_ORDER_HEADER)
> An instance of a Routing, and also a collection of Task Runs (see below).
> So
> you can have 10 Production Runs of the Routing "Make_Soup_Noodle" if you
> have
> 10 SO OrderItem(s) (SalesOrder order items) asking for soup noodles. NOTE:
> Each Production Run can produce only a single type of product, but can
> produce
> 0/more.
>
> Task Run --- (aka PROD_ORDER_TASK or ProductionRun RoutingTask on front-end)
> An instance of a Routing Task.
>
> Given the above, I'm also prompted to ask the community if it is possible to
> have a Routing Task
> produce a product/component? Or are Production Runs the only way to produce
> anything at all? If
> that's the case, we'll have to have a very nested tree of Production Runs
> just to produce
> something as complicated as a bicycle with many subassemblies/components.
>
> I suspect a Task Run can produce subassemblies/components. Can somebody
> confirm this?
>
> > I just figure out another way to help me to have a more useful
> "Calculated
> > Completion Date" when I plan a production run.
> >
> > I first create different tasks for the same purpose, e.g.
> >
> > 1) 10 workers to gather all the raw materials
> > 2) 20 workers to gather all the raw materials
> >
> > but each with a different "Estimated Run Time".
> >
> > So that I can assign different tasks to the job and have it re-calculate
> the
> > "Calculated Completion Date" before I confirm the job.
>
> Question. You managed to assign different Routing Tasks to different
> Production Runs (say they're
> instantiated from Routing "Make_Soup_Noodle")? I thought it was only
> possible to assign Routing
> Tasks to Routings, and not to Production Runs.
>
> Or did you mean you had to create 2 different Routings, one
> "Make_Soup_Noodle" and another
> "Make_Soup_Noodle_Faster" in order to achieve the above? If so, that sounds
> counter-intuitive. Why
> not try to fix OFBiz to allow for adjustments of production capacity inside
> a Production Run
> (rather than inside the template which is the Routing itself)?
>
> But if you think the above "workaround" serves you, I'd say go for it. I may
> be inclined to adopt
> that "workaround" too. In that case, thanks for the hint, Mike! Good catch.
>
> > My next question is how to reserve the fixed asset that has a job already
> > associated with. So as to prevent the fixed asset being occupy by more
> than
> > one job at one time.
>
> I don't think you can. There is currently no logic to do so (correct me if
> I'm wrong). I never
> thought about this. I think you're right that this should be standard logic
> in manufacturing. We
> need to consider production capacity of every fixed asset (teams of
> human/robot workers,
> factories, sewing machines, etc). No sewing machine can sew an infinite
> number of shirts at one
> time (can there?).
>
> I'll look into this. (I mean reserving/occupying fixed assets, not the Super
> Sewing Machine.)
>
> > Regarding the fix for the "Calculated Completion Date", I think the
> current
> > behavior is correct and is what we should expect.
>
> It is? Why wouldn't you want the "Calculated Completion Date" to change to
> reflect any changes in
> your Task Runs?
>
> Jonathon
>
> Mike Wong wrote:
>> Jonathon,
>>
>> Thanks for the advice.
>>
>> I just figure out another way to help me to have a more useful "Calculated
>> Completion Date" when I plan a production run.
>>
>> I first create different tasks for the same purpose, e.g.
>>
>> 1) 10 workers to gather all the raw materials
>> 2) 20 workers to gather all the raw materials
>>
>> but each with a different "Estimated Run Time".
>>
>> So that I can assign different tasks to the job and have it re-calculate
> the
>> "Calculated Completion Date" before I confirm the job.
>>
>> My next question is how to reserve the fixed asset that has a job already
>> associated with. So as to prevent the fixed asset being occupy by more
> than
>> one job at one time.
>>
>> Regarding the fix for the "Calculated Completion Date", I think the
> current
>> behavior is correct and is what we should expect.
>>
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Jonathon -- Improov [mailto:[hidden email]]
>> Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 1:26 AM
>> To: [hidden email]; Tom Anderson
>> Subject: Re: Question on Rouning tasks
>>
>> Mike,
>>
>> I tried it myself. It seems that the "Calculated Completion Date", whether
>> for the production run
>> or the individual routing tasks, will not change. (Can anyone familiar
> with
>> this confirm this?).
>>
>> To denote actual time spent, click on "Declare". In the field "Add Actual
>> Task Time", key in the
>> actual time it would take (in seconds, sorry for big number!), say 60 (for
>> 60 seconds). Your
>> "Actual Time" field will show 60 (seconds).
>>
>> Then when you have an extra worker, you will then enter -30 into the field
>> "Add Actual Task Time",
>> and your "Actual Time" field will now show 30 (seconds).
>>
>> Note that your actual start time for the entire production run will be the
>> time you start your
>> first routing task.
>>
>> Sorry, it seems you can't specify the start time ("From Date") for each
>> routing task. So, yeah, it
>> seems the value for "Actual Time" looks disembodied.
>>
>> Yes, I know that it's irritating and counter-intuitive that the
> "Calculated
>> Completion Date"
>> values don't show you the changes. Even the "From Date" and "To Date" for
>> each routing task don't
>> seem to work at all.
>>
>> But no worries! We can easily fix that! Or would you mind submitting a fix
>> for that yourself?
>>
>> Jonathon
>>
>> Mike Wong wrote:
>>> Jonathon,
>>>
>>> Yes, this is exactly what I want to achieve - "10 workers can gather
>>> the raw materials in 10 hours, 20 workers would do so in 5"
>>>
>>> As of now I can't figure out how to do it.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Jonathon -- Improov [mailto:[hidden email]]
>>> Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 10:08 PM
>>> To: [hidden email]
>>> Subject: Re: Question on Rouning tasks
>>>
>>> Mike,
>>>
>>> There could be a bug, so that "Calculated Completion date" won't change.
>> But
>>> I'm not sure, since
>>> I'm not 100% familiar with all the business logics there.
>>>
>>> What do you mean by "assign 20 workers to 2 of the task"? Every task in a
>>> production run is a
>>> distinct step. The first task could be "gather all the raw materials". So
>> if
>>> 10 workers can gather
>>> the raw materials in 10 hours, 20 workers would do so in 5.
>>>
>>> Likewise for the 2nd task, say "assemble the raw materials".
>>>
>>> Jonathon
>>>
>>> Mike Wong wrote:
>>>> Jonathon,
>>>>
>>>> I've checked that I can only declare the actual setup time and the
> actual
>>>> time but not the number of the routing tasks. And the "Calculated
>>>> Completion date" won't change after I confirmed the "Production Run".
>>>>
>>>> The question is how can I plan for a Production run.
>>>>
>>>> e.g.
>>>>
>>>> If I assign 10 workers to one of the task and the job can be completed
> on
>>>> 25th Jan. But if I assign 20 workers to 2 of the task the job can be
>>>> completed on 10th Jan.
>>>>
>>>> So I can play with that to plan for my resources usage.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>> Mike
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Jonathon -- Improov [mailto:[hidden email]]
>>>> Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 7:41 PM
>>>> To: [hidden email]
>>>> Cc: Tom Anderson
>>>> Subject: Re: Question on Rouning tasks
>>>>
>>>> Mike,
>>>>
>>>> Once you start a routing task (when inside the Production Run screen),
>> you
>>>> can "Declare" certain
>>>> numbers for the routing task. I believe you can set the completion time
>>>> there. Let me know what
>>>> you found? Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> Jonathon
>>>>
>>>> Mike Wong wrote:
>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>
>>>>> One quick question.
>>>>>
>>>>> With the current version of OfBiz is it possible to create a "Rounting
>>>> Task"
>>>>> which can simulate a job that can be done by multiple workers?
>>>>>
>>>>> All I can do now is a Task with an estimate usage time which will be
>>>>> multiply with the quantity to calculate the estimate job end time. I
>>>> can't
>>>>> configure the task to if I can assign 2 workers to that task and the
>>>>> estimate end time should be cut to half.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>> Mike
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>

mikeymwong

RE: Question on Rouning tasks

In reply to this post by Jacopo Cappellato

Thanks Jacopo, so I think I've to cut out the "capacity scheduling" use case
from my ofbiz demonstration.

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: Jacopo Cappellato [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 10:13 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Question on Rouning tasks

Jonhaton,

Jacopo Cappellato

Re: Question on Rouning tasks

Ok,

but maybe I was not very clear with this.
You can actually create calendars of capacity per day
(Manufacturing->Calendars), the capacity is expressed in milliseconds:
you can define standards weeks, days and also exceptions days amd weeks
(such as an holiday).
You can set the desired calendar for each fixed asset (aka workcenter or
machine) in Accounting->Fixed Assets.
The fixed asset (used by a task) is set in the Manufacturing->Tasks screens.
The capacity in the calendars is considered when the production runs are
created; if I have a 10 hours task using a fixed asset associated to an
8-hours-per-day calendar then it will start today and the estimated
completion date will be tomorrow (8 hours today and 2 tomorrow).
You can even see the production runs running in a facility by selectimg
a facility in the WorkEffort->calendar screens; if you select a fixed
asset you'll see the routing tasks running in that fixed asset.
This could help, together with some nice reports (not currently
available) and maybe some external tools to do more advanced capacity
scheduling.
However, if you run another identical production run in the same day, it
will not see the existing production and will be scheduled in the same
time frame.

Jacopo

Mike Wong wrote:
> Thanks Jacopo, so I think I've to cut out the "capacity scheduling" use case
> from my ofbiz demonstration.
>
> Mike
>

Jacopo Cappellato

Re: Question on Rouning tasks

In reply to this post by jonwimp

Jonathon -- Improov wrote:
> Jacopo,
>
> Thanks for heads up on the WIP! Invaluable advice.
>
> So you're saying that Task Runs (PROD_ORDER_TASK) can never produce
> anything by themselves (inside context of a Production Run
> PROD_ORDER_HEADER)? Then what does the "Deliverable Products" tab in
> "Edit Routing Task" function do?
>

Yes, tasks can be used to produce stuff (and the screens you see are
exactly for setting the allowed products; then you can use the main
production runs screen to 'produce' them): however it is a manual
process and as I see it it should only be used for non standard results.

> Seems like the Manufacturing module is choke full of skeletal
> half-implemented concepts. Maybe we should:
>

This is not true, but think it as you prefer.

> 1. Round off all half-implemented concepts so newcomers don't have so
> many red
> herrings to deal with.
>
> 2. Document all fully-implemented concepts so newcomers know that
> undocumented
> concepts are either not there or not fully there.
>
> What do you think?
>

Go for it. I'd suggest (as I already told you in one of my previous
posts) to create a Wiki page for this.

> I'm willing to help, as long as you continue to give me such invaluable
> pointers!

I really cannot promise this, but if I can I will continue to help you all.

> I know you must have forgotten many of the functionalities you
> coded.

I've never said something like this., but, again, think it as you
prefer: no time to discuss with you.
You are really making too many assumptions and in my opinion this is a
common pattern for people, like you, that speak too much :-)

> But as long as you point me the way, I can take apart OFBiz
> quickly to document it. Deal?
>

As a general rule, if you want to get a chance to get any kind of
attention from me, keep your messages as short as possible: chances are
that I will not read more than the first 5 lines of your posts from now
on (sorry but I simply don't have the time to chat with you).

Good luck for your project,

Jacopo

jonwimp

Re: Question on Rouning tasks

Jacopo,

> Yes, tasks can be used to produce stuff (and the screens you see are
> exactly for setting the allowed products; then you can use the main
> production runs screen to 'produce' them): however it is a manual
> process and as I see it it should only be used for non standard results.

Yes, you're right. My boss tells me the common way, as you described, is to use a cascading
structure/network of production runs.

>> Seems like the Manufacturing module is choke full of skeletal
>> half-implemented concepts. Maybe we should:
>
> This is not true, but think it as you prefer.

Lot control ID.

>> 1. Round off all half-implemented concepts so newcomers don't have so
>> many red
>> herrings to deal with.
>> 2. Document all fully-implemented concepts so newcomers know that
>> undocumented
>> concepts are either not there or not fully there.
>> What do you think?
>
> Go for it. I'd suggest (as I already told you in one of my previous
> posts) to create a Wiki page for this.

I'll try. Currently, I'm as busy as you are. And we certainly don't see you or me writing Wikis at
this time. In fact, I write more to help other newbies with what information I got from you and
other veterans (some I discovered myself).

I've been trying to get some people who has time to write (possibly because they don't need to
code). But they're writing "other stuff" right now on the ML.

>> I'm willing to help, as long as you continue to give me such
>> invaluable pointers!
>
> I really cannot promise this, but if I can I will continue to help you all.

Yes, you always did. Thanks!

>> I know you must have forgotten many of the functionalities you coded.
>
> I've never said something like this., but, again, think it as you
> prefer: no time to discuss with you.

I can dig up several posts to show this. But let's leave it at this and focus on work instead. I
have a bad memory too, when I have too much work.

> You are really making too many assumptions and in my opinion this is a
> common pattern for people, like you, that speak too much :-)

I can spend an hour to dig into OFBiz to answer my own questions; or I can spend 5 minutes to ask
those questions on ML. Assumptions are a quick way to learn, since they do draw corrections and
answers. :)

Of course, I realized that it seems to take people quite a long time to answer questions even for
modules they've coded before, possibly because they've coded that too long ago.

So, instead of asking "Does OFBiz does this/that?", I've resorted to asking "OFBiz does (or does
not) do this/that. Confirm?". Most of the time (check and tally my posts on ML), I was right. I
hope that saved the OFBiz veterans' time, since they only had to give a "yes/no" answer.

I hope you don't mean I "speak too much [truth]". Like you, I'm straightforward. No time to tiptoe
around with "customer service". I used to try (all posts recorded, so refer). People tend to
"feel" for facts, rather than see facts. I like written comms, zero room for "feeling for facts",
all there to be read and reread. But as you can see in my posts, I often "give in", let people
think what they think against the written facts, and move on to work.

If work gets done, I'm happy. I leave people to argue with the written posts themselves.

> As a general rule, if you want to get a chance to get any kind of
> attention from me, keep your messages as short as possible: chances are
> that I will not read more than the first 5 lines of your posts from now
> on (sorry but I simply don't have the time to chat with you).

I know you're busy. That's why I've been trying to figure things out myself, post my findings, and
occasionally hope for your corrections. Thanks!

Jonathon

Jacopo Cappellato wrote:

> Jonathon -- Improov wrote:
>> Jacopo,
>>
>> Thanks for heads up on the WIP! Invaluable advice.
>>
>> So you're saying that Task Runs (PROD_ORDER_TASK) can never produce
>> anything by themselves (inside context of a Production Run
>> PROD_ORDER_HEADER)? Then what does the "Deliverable Products" tab in
>> "Edit Routing Task" function do?
>>
>
> Yes, tasks can be used to produce stuff (and the screens you see are
> exactly for setting the allowed products; then you can use the main
> production runs screen to 'produce' them): however it is a manual
> process and as I see it it should only be used for non standard results.
>
>> Seems like the Manufacturing module is choke full of skeletal
>> half-implemented concepts. Maybe we should:
>>
>
> This is not true, but think it as you prefer.
>
>> 1. Round off all half-implemented concepts so newcomers don't have so
>> many red
>> herrings to deal with.
>>
>> 2. Document all fully-implemented concepts so newcomers know that
>> undocumented
>> concepts are either not there or not fully there.
>>
>> What do you think?
>>
>
> Go for it. I'd suggest (as I already told you in one of my previous
> posts) to create a Wiki page for this.
>
>> I'm willing to help, as long as you continue to give me such
>> invaluable pointers!
>
> I really cannot promise this, but if I can I will continue to help you all.
>
>> I know you must have forgotten many of the functionalities you coded.
>
> I've never said something like this., but, again, think it as you
> prefer: no time to discuss with you.
> You are really making too many assumptions and in my opinion this is a
> common pattern for people, like you, that speak too much :-)
>
>> But as long as you point me the way, I can take apart OFBiz quickly to
>> document it. Deal?
>>
>
> As a general rule, if you want to get a chance to get any kind of
> attention from me, keep your messages as short as possible: chances are
> that I will not read more than the first 5 lines of your posts from now
> on (sorry but I simply don't have the time to chat with you).
>
> Good luck for your project,
>
> Jacopo
>
>
>
>