Re: svn commit: r1674216 - in /ofbiz/trunk: framework/start/pom.xml pom.xml

[David E. Jones-2]

> On 21 Apr 2015, at 14:09, Pierre Smits <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Is this the path you want to walk? Code over Community? Engage in commit
> wars, just to force your way? Please don't!  Collaborating is easier than
> forcing. The latter harms the project more than the first.

Really? Doing a POC and proposing a direction implies all of this to you?

-David

[Adam Heath-2]

On 04/22/2015 12:52 PM, David E. Jones wrote:

>> On 21 Apr 2015, at 14:17, Adam Heath <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Gradle is a non-starter.  When I saw that mentioned, I actually did do some comparisons.
>>
>> In google, search for maven, then gradle.  See how many responses each one gets.
>>
>> Then, go to trends.google.com, compare the above 2 items, and then add ant.  You might want to say "apache ant" or "apache maven", and/or add java terms.
>>
>> Then, also do a "A vs B vs C" search, aka, "maven vs gradle vs ant".
>>
>> After doing this, maven is still the right choice.
> This is an appeal to popularity, not utility.

Did further.  Read what is linked from google(or your search engine of
choice).  Just like code formatting can be a proxy to code quality, so
can search result count.  But you still have to investigate, and maven
does seem to have higher community, support, etc.

[Adam Heath-2]

On 04/22/2015 12:53 PM, David E. Jones wrote:
>> On 21 Apr 2015, at 14:09, Pierre Smits <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Is this the path you want to walk? Code over Community? Engage in commit
>> wars, just to force your way? Please don't!  Collaborating is easier than
>> forcing. The latter harms the project more than the first.
> Really? Doing a POC and proposing a direction implies all of this to you?

I haven't done any forcing.  I haven't done any commit wars.  I've done
a POC, as David mentions.

[Ean Schuessler]

> From: "David E. Jones" <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: Long: Re: discussion: Move to Maven was:Re: svn commit: r1674216 - in /ofbiz/trunk: framework/start/pom.xml
> pom.xml
>
> This is an appeal to popularity, not utility.

I don't think we've proven that those fail to converge over time.

[Pierre Smits]

@David: Really? No, I projected a scenario that could happen if due process
isn't upheld. I rather not see such a scenario unfolding. And in this case
I feel the gun was jumped. While still debating over pros and cons. A bit
of patience applied would not have led to that projection.

And remember I did a PoC on Ant+IVY (outside of our repository) and opened
the discussion regarding opening a dev branch so that people evaluate that
alternative and learn from my insights gathered in the beginning of 2014.

Best regards,

Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com

On Wed, Apr 22, 2015 at 7:53 PM, David E. Jones <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> > On 21 Apr 2015, at 14:09, Pierre Smits <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Is this the path you want to walk? Code over Community? Engage in commit
> > wars, just to force your way? Please don't!  Collaborating is easier than
> > forcing. The latter harms the project more than the first.
>
> Really? Doing a POC and proposing a direction implies all of this to you?
>
> -David
>
>

[Jacques Le Roux]

Le 22/04/2015 00:03, Adam Heath a écrit :

>
> On 04/21/2015 04:30 PM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>> Le 21/04/2015 23:17, Adam Heath a écrit :
>>>
>>> On 04/21/2015 04:06 PM, Nicolas Malin wrote:
>>>> Le 21/04/2015 22:37, Adam Heath a écrit :
>>>>> My commit is not breaking anything. Why remove something that is harmless?
>>>>>
>>>>> Let's be positive and forward enabling; if a commit is reverted, then that reversion has not stopped any discussion, and now the original
>>>>> committer will have to do more work to re-add what was removed.
>>>> Definitely, all commiter try to have a positive attitude to improve OFBiz. Your commit break nothing (on technical aspect), and I'm sure maven
>>>> would be a good improvement.
>>>>
>>>> Only, Jacopo start a discussion to improve OFBiz with Gradle
>>>> http://ofbiz.135035.n4.nabble.com/Discussion-migrating-from-Ant-to-Gradle-td4654092.html#a4654170 and adding pom.xml has an effect of bombshell.
>>>> If you explain before on this thread that maven is better and why, your commit would be appreciate in its just value.
>>>>
>>>> Before your commit I had not idea on gradle or maven, but with my french mentality now I prefer Gradle ;) (completely not subjective!)
>>>>
>>>
>>> Gradle is a non-starter.  When I saw that mentioned, I actually did do some comparisons.
>>>
>>> In google, search for maven, then gradle.  See how many responses each one gets.
>>>
>>> Then, go to trends.google.com, compare the above 2 items, and then add ant.  You might want to say "apache ant" or "apache maven", and/or add java
>>> terms.
>>>
>>> Then, also do a "A vs B vs C" search, aka, "maven vs gradle vs ant".
>>>
>>> After doing this, maven is still the right choice.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Quantity is not quality
>>
>
> That seems to be a bit of an abrupt statement.  Do you have anything more substantive to say?  Did you actually attempt to dig down into the
> suggestions I gave?  Or was this a knee-jerk response to my attempt at actually investigating gradle?
>

It was just a lack of time, I was then just leaving for few days. I always had and still have a reluctance against statistics and the world it's
creating around us (think big data). There is of course sound aspects but I fear the humanity will suffer of it in the long term. It relates to my
experience in the context of IA where you have mostly 2 approaches: statistical vs logical (OK they are mixing/mixed now
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_intelligence )

So yes was more a knee-jerk response :) I have still not enough time to expand and be totally clear. I hope from my digression above I guess you get
my point.

Jacques

Jacques