Re: svn commit: r686301 - in /ofbiz/trunk/framework/webapp: dtd/site-conf.xsd src/org/ofbiz/webapp/control/ConfigXMLReader.java src/org/ofbiz/webapp/control/RequestHandler.java

[Bilgin Ibryam]

Hi Si,

there are errors in RequestHandler after this commit.
Can you fix/revert it, please?

Bilgin

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[Scott Gray]

Forwarding since Si doesn't subscribe to the dev list


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Bilgin Ibryam <[hidden email]>
Date: 2008/8/16
Subject: Re: svn commit: r686301 - in /ofbiz/trunk/framework/webapp:
dtd/site-conf.xsd src/org/ofbiz/webapp/control/ConfigXMLReader.java
src/org/ofbiz/webapp/control/RequestHandler.java
To: [hidden email]


Hi Si,

there are errors in RequestHandler after this commit.
Can you fix/revert it, please?

Bilgin

----------------------------------------------------------------
This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.

[Adam Heath-2]

Scott Gray wrote:
> Forwarding since Si doesn't subscribe to the dev list

Er, he has commit access, but doesn't subscribe?  Should this be disallowed?

[Scott Gray]

I don't personally have a problem with it, mostly because there aren't
many commits from Si and they seem to do more good than harm.

-Scott

2008/8/16 Adam Heath <[hidden email]>:
> Scott Gray wrote:
>>
>> Forwarding since Si doesn't subscribe to the dev list
>
> Er, he has commit access, but doesn't subscribe?  Should this be disallowed?
>

[David E Jones]

On Aug 15, 2008, at 2:20 PM, Adam Heath wrote:

> Scott Gray wrote:
>> Forwarding since Si doesn't subscribe to the dev list
>
> Er, he has commit access, but doesn't subscribe?  Should this be  
> disallowed?

There are definitely people that have a problem with this, and it is a  
weird situation. It is true that all committers should follow the dev  
list and watch for things for them, as well as for things that relate  
to things they have worked on. They should also monitor the commits  
list to monitor all changes to areas of the project they are familiar  
with.

Unfortunately Si seems to have chosen not to do this, and not to stay  
involved in this way with OFBiz. It's also unfortunate that he doesn't  
discuss his changes a whole lot, and issues do tend to come up with  
them that are often not resolved or not adequately resolved. In other  
words, he usually uses his commit privileges to get things into the  
project quickly for his convenience and isn't really participating in  
the community.

While unfortunate, what to do about it is another question. Should the  
PMC really vote to remove his commit privileges? My guess is no, that  
wouldn't be a good action or conducive to community building.

So instead we keep a close eye on his commits, knowing that dues to  
his infrequent community interactions and commits that he may have a  
harder time with things that he puts in. Along with this, as Scott  
mentioned, he does contribute valuable things here and there and that  
is great for the project. There are other people in this boat to, and  
really all committers should review the work of other committers for  
the sake of the project.

Anyway, it's something on the back-burner and not something that there  
seems to be something to do about right away, and whether there is  
anything the PMC could do to improve the situation or not is still a  
big question.

-David

[Jacques Le Roux]

I agree with Scoot and so with you, David

Jacques

From: "David E Jones" <[hidden email]>

>
> On Aug 15, 2008, at 2:20 PM, Adam Heath wrote:
>
>> Scott Gray wrote:
>>> Forwarding since Si doesn't subscribe to the dev list
>>
>> Er, he has commit access, but doesn't subscribe?  Should this be  
>> disallowed?
>
> There are definitely people that have a problem with this, and it is a  
> weird situation. It is true that all committers should follow the dev  
> list and watch for things for them, as well as for things that relate  
> to things they have worked on. They should also monitor the commits  
> list to monitor all changes to areas of the project they are familiar  
> with.
>
> Unfortunately Si seems to have chosen not to do this, and not to stay  
> involved in this way with OFBiz. It's also unfortunate that he doesn't  
> discuss his changes a whole lot, and issues do tend to come up with  
> them that are often not resolved or not adequately resolved. In other  
> words, he usually uses his commit privileges to get things into the  
> project quickly for his convenience and isn't really participating in  
> the community.
>
> While unfortunate, what to do about it is another question. Should the  
> PMC really vote to remove his commit privileges? My guess is no, that  
> wouldn't be a good action or conducive to community building.
>
> So instead we keep a close eye on his commits, knowing that dues to  
> his infrequent community interactions and commits that he may have a  
> harder time with things that he puts in. Along with this, as Scott  
> mentioned, he does contribute valuable things here and there and that  
> is great for the project. There are other people in this boat to, and  
> really all committers should review the work of other committers for  
> the sake of the project.
>
> Anyway, it's something on the back-burner and not something that there  
> seems to be something to do about right away, and whether there is  
> anything the PMC could do to improve the situation or not is still a  
> big question.
>
> -David
>
>

[Adrian Crum-2]

How about we issue a "strongly worded letter?" ;-)

Seriously though, when I first subscribed to the lists, I balked at the volume of incoming mail. I still needed to read it so I set up filters to sort it. I'm sure Si could do the same.

I agree he should retain his commit privileges, but I also believe he needs to participate in the dev list (at least).

-Adrian


--- On Fri, 8/15/08, David E Jones <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: David E Jones <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: svn commit: r686301 - in /ofbiz/trunk/framework/webapp: dtd/site-conf.xsd src/org/ofbiz/webapp/control/ConfigXMLReader.java src/org/ofbiz/webapp/control/RequestHandler.java
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Friday, August 15, 2008, 9:01 PM
> On Aug 15, 2008, at 2:20 PM, Adam Heath wrote:
>
> > Scott Gray wrote:
> >> Forwarding since Si doesn't subscribe to the
> dev list
> >
> > Er, he has commit access, but doesn't subscribe?
> Should this be  
> > disallowed?
>
> There are definitely people that have a problem with this,
> and it is a  
> weird situation. It is true that all committers should
> follow the dev  
> list and watch for things for them, as well as for things
> that relate  
> to things they have worked on. They should also monitor the
> commits  
> list to monitor all changes to areas of the project they
> are familiar  
> with.
>
> Unfortunately Si seems to have chosen not to do this, and
> not to stay  
> involved in this way with OFBiz. It's also unfortunate
> that he doesn't  
> discuss his changes a whole lot, and issues do tend to come
> up with  
> them that are often not resolved or not adequately
> resolved. In other  
> words, he usually uses his commit privileges to get things
> into the  
> project quickly for his convenience and isn't really
> participating in  
> the community.
>
> While unfortunate, what to do about it is another question.
> Should the  
> PMC really vote to remove his commit privileges? My guess
> is no, that  
> wouldn't be a good action or conducive to community
> building.
>
> So instead we keep a close eye on his commits, knowing that
> dues to  
> his infrequent community interactions and commits that he
> may have a  
> harder time with things that he puts in. Along with this,
> as Scott  
> mentioned, he does contribute valuable things here and
> there and that  
> is great for the project. There are other people in this
> boat to, and  
> really all committers should review the work of other
> committers for  
> the sake of the project.
>
> Anyway, it's something on the back-burner and not
> something that there  
> seems to be something to do about right away, and whether
> there is  
> anything the PMC could do to improve the situation or not
> is still a  
> big question.
>
> -David

     

[Jacopo Cappellato-3]

I know this is an annoying situation, but since Si in the past few  
months has ignored our suggestion to discuss things in the mailing  
lists, instead of just writing uni-directional messages using Jira, I  
don't think we will have any luck in this. I am sure he understands  
this is far from an optimal setup (as I am sure that he would be able  
to create message filters for managing the volume of the ml traffic),  
and we can't (nor want) force him to do something he has decided to  
not concede us.

Jacopo

On Aug 16, 2008, at 4:26 PM, Adrian Crum wrote:

> How about we issue a "strongly worded letter?" ;-)
>
> Seriously though, when I first subscribed to the lists, I balked at  
> the volume of incoming mail. I still needed to read it so I set up  
> filters to sort it. I'm sure Si could do the same.
>
> I agree he should retain his commit privileges, but I also believe  
> he needs to participate in the dev list (at least).
>
> -Adrian
>
>
> --- On Fri, 8/15/08, David E Jones <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> From: David E Jones <[hidden email]>
>> Subject: Re: svn commit: r686301 - in /ofbiz/trunk/framework/
>> webapp: dtd/site-conf.xsd src/org/ofbiz/webapp/control/
>> ConfigXMLReader.java src/org/ofbiz/webapp/control/RequestHandler.java
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Date: Friday, August 15, 2008, 9:01 PM
>> On Aug 15, 2008, at 2:20 PM, Adam Heath wrote:
>>
>>> Scott Gray wrote:
>>>> Forwarding since Si doesn't subscribe to the
>> dev list
>>>
>>> Er, he has commit access, but doesn't subscribe?
>> Should this be
>>> disallowed?
>>
>> There are definitely people that have a problem with this,
>> and it is a
>> weird situation. It is true that all committers should
>> follow the dev
>> list and watch for things for them, as well as for things
>> that relate
>> to things they have worked on. They should also monitor the
>> commits
>> list to monitor all changes to areas of the project they
>> are familiar
>> with.
>>
>> Unfortunately Si seems to have chosen not to do this, and
>> not to stay
>> involved in this way with OFBiz. It's also unfortunate
>> that he doesn't
>> discuss his changes a whole lot, and issues do tend to come
>> up with
>> them that are often not resolved or not adequately
>> resolved. In other
>> words, he usually uses his commit privileges to get things
>> into the
>> project quickly for his convenience and isn't really
>> participating in
>> the community.
>>
>> While unfortunate, what to do about it is another question.
>> Should the
>> PMC really vote to remove his commit privileges? My guess
>> is no, that
>> wouldn't be a good action or conducive to community
>> building.
>>
>> So instead we keep a close eye on his commits, knowing that
>> dues to
>> his infrequent community interactions and commits that he
>> may have a
>> harder time with things that he puts in. Along with this,
>> as Scott
>> mentioned, he does contribute valuable things here and
>> there and that
>> is great for the project. There are other people in this
>> boat to, and
>> really all committers should review the work of other
>> committers for
>> the sake of the project.
>>
>> Anyway, it's something on the back-burner and not
>> something that there
>> seems to be something to do about right away, and whether
>> there is
>> anything the PMC could do to improve the situation or not
>> is still a
>> big question.
>>
>> -David
>
>
>

[Adrian Crum-2]

In case you missed my joke, the "strongly worded letter" remark was referencing the UN's inability to deal effectively with rogue nations. ;-)

-Adrian


--- On Sat, 8/16/08, Jacopo Cappellato <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: Jacopo Cappellato <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: svn commit: r686301 - in /ofbiz/trunk/framework/webapp: dtd/site-conf.xsd src/org/ofbiz/webapp/control/ConfigXMLReader.java src/org/ofbiz/webapp/control/RequestHandler.java
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Saturday, August 16, 2008, 8:04 AM
> I know this is an annoying situation, but since Si in the
> past few  
> months has ignored our suggestion to discuss things in the
> mailing  
> lists, instead of just writing uni-directional messages
> using Jira, I  
> don't think we will have any luck in this. I am sure he
> understands  
> this is far from an optimal setup (as I am sure that he
> would be able  
> to create message filters for managing the volume of the ml
> traffic),  
> and we can't (nor want) force him to do something he
> has decided to  
> not concede us.
>
> Jacopo
>
> On Aug 16, 2008, at 4:26 PM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>
> > How about we issue a "strongly worded
> letter?" ;-)
> >
> > Seriously though, when I first subscribed to the
> lists, I balked at  
> > the volume of incoming mail. I still needed to read it
> so I set up  
> > filters to sort it. I'm sure Si could do the same.
> >
> > I agree he should retain his commit privileges, but I
> also believe  
> > he needs to participate in the dev list (at least).
> >
> > -Adrian
> >
> >
> > --- On Fri, 8/15/08, David E Jones
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >> From: David E Jones
> <[hidden email]>
> >> Subject: Re: svn commit: r686301 - in
> /ofbiz/trunk/framework/
> >> webapp: dtd/site-conf.xsd
> src/org/ofbiz/webapp/control/
> >> ConfigXMLReader.java
> src/org/ofbiz/webapp/control/RequestHandler.java
> >> To: [hidden email]
> >> Date: Friday, August 15, 2008, 9:01 PM
> >> On Aug 15, 2008, at 2:20 PM, Adam Heath wrote:
> >>
> >>> Scott Gray wrote:
> >>>> Forwarding since Si doesn't subscribe
> to the
> >> dev list
> >>>
> >>> Er, he has commit access, but doesn't
> subscribe?
> >> Should this be
> >>> disallowed?
> >>
> >> There are definitely people that have a problem
> with this,
> >> and it is a
> >> weird situation. It is true that all committers
> should
> >> follow the dev
> >> list and watch for things for them, as well as for
> things
> >> that relate
> >> to things they have worked on. They should also
> monitor the
> >> commits
> >> list to monitor all changes to areas of the
> project they
> >> are familiar
> >> with.
> >>
> >> Unfortunately Si seems to have chosen not to do
> this, and
> >> not to stay
> >> involved in this way with OFBiz. It's also
> unfortunate
> >> that he doesn't
> >> discuss his changes a whole lot, and issues do
> tend to come
> >> up with
> >> them that are often not resolved or not adequately
> >> resolved. In other
> >> words, he usually uses his commit privileges to
> get things
> >> into the
> >> project quickly for his convenience and isn't
> really
> >> participating in
> >> the community.
> >>
> >> While unfortunate, what to do about it is another
> question.
> >> Should the
> >> PMC really vote to remove his commit privileges?
> My guess
> >> is no, that
> >> wouldn't be a good action or conducive to
> community
> >> building.
> >>
> >> So instead we keep a close eye on his commits,
> knowing that
> >> dues to
> >> his infrequent community interactions and commits
> that he
> >> may have a
> >> harder time with things that he puts in. Along
> with this,
> >> as Scott
> >> mentioned, he does contribute valuable things here
> and
> >> there and that
> >> is great for the project. There are other people
> in this
> >> boat to, and
> >> really all committers should review the work of
> other
> >> committers for
> >> the sake of the project.
> >>
> >> Anyway, it's something on the back-burner and
> not
> >> something that there
> >> seems to be something to do about right away, and
> whether
> >> there is
> >> anything the PMC could do to improve the situation
> or not
> >> is still a
> >> big question.
> >>
> >> -David
> >
> >
> >

     

[Tim Ruppert]

My position would be that if he doesn't want to be part of the  
community, why should everyone else bear the burden of watching him  
more closely than anyone else?  It's kinda ridiculous.

That being said, Si has made invaluable contributions throughout the  
years, so my vote would be to talk with him about following the best  
practices of being a committer and give him this leeway to comply.  
Should he continue to decide not too, it is not the responsibility of  
the rest of the community to perform additional work because of it and  
his rights should be removed.

My two cents.

Cheers,
Tim
--
Tim Ruppert
HotWax Media
http://www.hotwaxmedia.com

o:801.649.6594
f:801.649.6595


On Aug 16, 2008, at 9:04 AM, Jacopo Cappellato wrote:

> I know this is an annoying situation, but since Si in the past few  
> months has ignored our suggestion to discuss things in the mailing  
> lists, instead of just writing uni-directional messages using Jira,  
> I don't think we will have any luck in this. I am sure he  
> understands this is far from an optimal setup (as I am sure that he  
> would be able to create message filters for managing the volume of  
> the ml traffic), and we can't (nor want) force him to do something  
> he has decided to not concede us.
>
> Jacopo
>
> On Aug 16, 2008, at 4:26 PM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>
>> How about we issue a "strongly worded letter?" ;-)
>>
>> Seriously though, when I first subscribed to the lists, I balked at  
>> the volume of incoming mail. I still needed to read it so I set up  
>> filters to sort it. I'm sure Si could do the same.
>>
>> I agree he should retain his commit privileges, but I also believe  
>> he needs to participate in the dev list (at least).
>>
>> -Adrian
>>
>>
>> --- On Fri, 8/15/08, David E Jones <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> From: David E Jones <[hidden email]>
>>> Subject: Re: svn commit: r686301 - in /ofbiz/trunk/framework/
>>> webapp: dtd/site-conf.xsd src/org/ofbiz/webapp/control/
>>> ConfigXMLReader.java src/org/ofbiz/webapp/control/
>>> RequestHandler.java
>>> To: [hidden email]
>>> Date: Friday, August 15, 2008, 9:01 PM
>>> On Aug 15, 2008, at 2:20 PM, Adam Heath wrote:
>>>
>>>> Scott Gray wrote:
>>>>> Forwarding since Si doesn't subscribe to the
>>> dev list
>>>>
>>>> Er, he has commit access, but doesn't subscribe?
>>> Should this be
>>>> disallowed?
>>>
>>> There are definitely people that have a problem with this,
>>> and it is a
>>> weird situation. It is true that all committers should
>>> follow the dev
>>> list and watch for things for them, as well as for things
>>> that relate
>>> to things they have worked on. They should also monitor the
>>> commits
>>> list to monitor all changes to areas of the project they
>>> are familiar
>>> with.
>>>
>>> Unfortunately Si seems to have chosen not to do this, and
>>> not to stay
>>> involved in this way with OFBiz. It's also unfortunate
>>> that he doesn't
>>> discuss his changes a whole lot, and issues do tend to come
>>> up with
>>> them that are often not resolved or not adequately
>>> resolved. In other
>>> words, he usually uses his commit privileges to get things
>>> into the
>>> project quickly for his convenience and isn't really
>>> participating in
>>> the community.
>>>
>>> While unfortunate, what to do about it is another question.
>>> Should the
>>> PMC really vote to remove his commit privileges? My guess
>>> is no, that
>>> wouldn't be a good action or conducive to community
>>> building.
>>>
>>> So instead we keep a close eye on his commits, knowing that
>>> dues to
>>> his infrequent community interactions and commits that he
>>> may have a
>>> harder time with things that he puts in. Along with this,
>>> as Scott
>>> mentioned, he does contribute valuable things here and
>>> there and that
>>> is great for the project. There are other people in this
>>> boat to, and
>>> really all committers should review the work of other
>>> committers for
>>> the sake of the project.
>>>
>>> Anyway, it's something on the back-burner and not
>>> something that there
>>> seems to be something to do about right away, and whether
>>> there is
>>> anything the PMC could do to improve the situation or not
>>> is still a
>>> big question.
>>>
>>> -David
>>
>>
>>
>

[BJ Freeman]

So it comes down to :is his contribution worth the hassle".
That would, imho, be like saying those that don't have commit rights
should not be considered.
But I find there are committers that are willing to make the extra
effort to help those that can not.
On that note as long as there is one commiter that is willing to monitor
or facilitate the changes Si makes, there should not be any action taken.

Only when every committer has voice a negative should there be any
action take.



Tim Ruppert sent the following on 8/16/2008 8:55 AM:

> My position would be that if he doesn't want to be part of the
> community, why should everyone else bear the burden of watching him more
> closely than anyone else?  It's kinda ridiculous.
>
> That being said, Si has made invaluable contributions throughout the
> years, so my vote would be to talk with him about following the best
> practices of being a committer and give him this leeway to comply.
> Should he continue to decide not too, it is not the responsibility of
> the rest of the community to perform additional work because of it and
> his rights should be removed.
>
> My two cents.
>
> Cheers,
> Tim
> --
> Tim Ruppert
> HotWax Media
> http://www.hotwaxmedia.com
>
> o:801.649.6594
> f:801.649.6595
>
>
> On Aug 16, 2008, at 9:04 AM, Jacopo Cappellato wrote:
>
>> I know this is an annoying situation, but since Si in the past few
>> months has ignored our suggestion to discuss things in the mailing
>> lists, instead of just writing uni-directional messages using Jira, I
>> don't think we will have any luck in this. I am sure he understands
>> this is far from an optimal setup (as I am sure that he would be able
>> to create message filters for managing the volume of the ml traffic),
>> and we can't (nor want) force him to do something he has decided to
>> not concede us.
>>
>> Jacopo
>>
>> On Aug 16, 2008, at 4:26 PM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>
>>> How about we issue a "strongly worded letter?" ;-)
>>>
>>> Seriously though, when I first subscribed to the lists, I balked at
>>> the volume of incoming mail. I still needed to read it so I set up
>>> filters to sort it. I'm sure Si could do the same.
>>>
>>> I agree he should retain his commit privileges, but I also believe he
>>> needs to participate in the dev list (at least).
>>>
>>> -Adrian
>>>
>>>
>>> --- On Fri, 8/15/08, David E Jones <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> From: David E Jones <[hidden email]>
>>>> Subject: Re: svn commit: r686301 - in /ofbiz/trunk/framework/webapp:
>>>> dtd/site-conf.xsd src/org/ofbiz/webapp/control/ConfigXMLReader.java
>>>> src/org/ofbiz/webapp/control/RequestHandler.java
>>>> To: [hidden email]
>>>> Date: Friday, August 15, 2008, 9:01 PM
>>>> On Aug 15, 2008, at 2:20 PM, Adam Heath wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Scott Gray wrote:
>>>>>> Forwarding since Si doesn't subscribe to the
>>>> dev list
>>>>>
>>>>> Er, he has commit access, but doesn't subscribe?
>>>> Should this be
>>>>> disallowed?
>>>>
>>>> There are definitely people that have a problem with this,
>>>> and it is a
>>>> weird situation. It is true that all committers should
>>>> follow the dev
>>>> list and watch for things for them, as well as for things
>>>> that relate
>>>> to things they have worked on. They should also monitor the
>>>> commits
>>>> list to monitor all changes to areas of the project they
>>>> are familiar
>>>> with.
>>>>
>>>> Unfortunately Si seems to have chosen not to do this, and
>>>> not to stay
>>>> involved in this way with OFBiz. It's also unfortunate
>>>> that he doesn't
>>>> discuss his changes a whole lot, and issues do tend to come
>>>> up with
>>>> them that are often not resolved or not adequately
>>>> resolved. In other
>>>> words, he usually uses his commit privileges to get things
>>>> into the
>>>> project quickly for his convenience and isn't really
>>>> participating in
>>>> the community.
>>>>
>>>> While unfortunate, what to do about it is another question.
>>>> Should the
>>>> PMC really vote to remove his commit privileges? My guess
>>>> is no, that
>>>> wouldn't be a good action or conducive to community
>>>> building.
>>>>
>>>> So instead we keep a close eye on his commits, knowing that
>>>> dues to
>>>> his infrequent community interactions and commits that he
>>>> may have a
>>>> harder time with things that he puts in. Along with this,
>>>> as Scott
>>>> mentioned, he does contribute valuable things here and
>>>> there and that
>>>> is great for the project. There are other people in this
>>>> boat to, and
>>>> really all committers should review the work of other
>>>> committers for
>>>> the sake of the project.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, it's something on the back-burner and not
>>>> something that there
>>>> seems to be something to do about right away, and whether
>>>> there is
>>>> anything the PMC could do to improve the situation or not
>>>> is still a
>>>> big question.
>>>>
>>>> -David
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>

[Scott Gray]

I'm pretty sure that if we removed Si's commit access then we would
probably never see another contribution from him.  So I guess the
community needs to decide if we would rather look a little closer at
his commits or not have them at all.

Regards
Scott

2008/8/17 Tim Ruppert <[hidden email]>:

> My position would be that if he doesn't want to be part of the community,
> why should everyone else bear the burden of watching him more closely than
> anyone else?  It's kinda ridiculous.
>
> That being said, Si has made invaluable contributions throughout the years,
> so my vote would be to talk with him about following the best practices of
> being a committer and give him this leeway to comply.  Should he continue to
> decide not too, it is not the responsibility of the rest of the community to
> perform additional work because of it and his rights should be removed.
>
> My two cents.
>
> Cheers,
> Tim
> --
> Tim Ruppert
> HotWax Media
> http://www.hotwaxmedia.com
>
> o:801.649.6594
> f:801.649.6595
>
>
> On Aug 16, 2008, at 9:04 AM, Jacopo Cappellato wrote:
>
>> I know this is an annoying situation, but since Si in the past few months
>> has ignored our suggestion to discuss things in the mailing lists, instead
>> of just writing uni-directional messages using Jira, I don't think we will
>> have any luck in this. I am sure he understands this is far from an optimal
>> setup (as I am sure that he would be able to create message filters for
>> managing the volume of the ml traffic), and we can't (nor want) force him to
>> do something he has decided to not concede us.
>>
>> Jacopo
>>
>> On Aug 16, 2008, at 4:26 PM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>
>>> How about we issue a "strongly worded letter?" ;-)
>>>
>>> Seriously though, when I first subscribed to the lists, I balked at the
>>> volume of incoming mail. I still needed to read it so I set up filters to
>>> sort it. I'm sure Si could do the same.
>>>
>>> I agree he should retain his commit privileges, but I also believe he
>>> needs to participate in the dev list (at least).
>>>
>>> -Adrian
>>>
>>>
>>> --- On Fri, 8/15/08, David E Jones <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> From: David E Jones <[hidden email]>
>>>> Subject: Re: svn commit: r686301 - in /ofbiz/trunk/framework/webapp:
>>>> dtd/site-conf.xsd src/org/ofbiz/webapp/control/ConfigXMLReader.java
>>>> src/org/ofbiz/webapp/control/RequestHandler.java
>>>> To: [hidden email]
>>>> Date: Friday, August 15, 2008, 9:01 PM
>>>> On Aug 15, 2008, at 2:20 PM, Adam Heath wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Scott Gray wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Forwarding since Si doesn't subscribe to the
>>>>
>>>> dev list
>>>>>
>>>>> Er, he has commit access, but doesn't subscribe?
>>>>
>>>> Should this be
>>>>>
>>>>> disallowed?
>>>>
>>>> There are definitely people that have a problem with this,
>>>> and it is a
>>>> weird situation. It is true that all committers should
>>>> follow the dev
>>>> list and watch for things for them, as well as for things
>>>> that relate
>>>> to things they have worked on. They should also monitor the
>>>> commits
>>>> list to monitor all changes to areas of the project they
>>>> are familiar
>>>> with.
>>>>
>>>> Unfortunately Si seems to have chosen not to do this, and
>>>> not to stay
>>>> involved in this way with OFBiz. It's also unfortunate
>>>> that he doesn't
>>>> discuss his changes a whole lot, and issues do tend to come
>>>> up with
>>>> them that are often not resolved or not adequately
>>>> resolved. In other
>>>> words, he usually uses his commit privileges to get things
>>>> into the
>>>> project quickly for his convenience and isn't really
>>>> participating in
>>>> the community.
>>>>
>>>> While unfortunate, what to do about it is another question.
>>>> Should the
>>>> PMC really vote to remove his commit privileges? My guess
>>>> is no, that
>>>> wouldn't be a good action or conducive to community
>>>> building.
>>>>
>>>> So instead we keep a close eye on his commits, knowing that
>>>> dues to
>>>> his infrequent community interactions and commits that he
>>>> may have a
>>>> harder time with things that he puts in. Along with this,
>>>> as Scott
>>>> mentioned, he does contribute valuable things here and
>>>> there and that
>>>> is great for the project. There are other people in this
>>>> boat to, and
>>>> really all committers should review the work of other
>>>> committers for
>>>> the sake of the project.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, it's something on the back-burner and not
>>>> something that there
>>>> seems to be something to do about right away, and whether
>>>> there is
>>>> anything the PMC could do to improve the situation or not
>>>> is still a
>>>> big question.
>>>>
>>>> -David
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

[Adam Heath-2]

Scott Gray wrote:
> I'm pretty sure that if we removed Si's commit access then we would
> probably never see another contribution from him.  So I guess the
> community needs to decide if we would rather look a little closer at
> his commits or not have them at all.

Er, maybe.

I've been a committer to OfBiz at two different times.  I was removed
the first time due to lack of involvment, and time.  OfBiz switched
hosting providers, and didn't bother to add me on the new system, due to
those two issues.  I was a little upset, it was true; not because I was
removed, but because I wasn't told I was removed.  However, I got over
it.  I admitted I was too busy.

However, that has now changed now.  I realized that it was worth my while.

To put it bluntly: commit access is not a right, but a privilege.  There
are requirements one must follow to keep it.  The time required to
participate is not that much.

I've worked with debian in the past, I know full well how much time it
takes; OfBiz participation is much simpler.  And, at least with OfBiz,
the payoffs to me and to who I work for are obvious.  Is it too much to
ask to be subscribed to this mailing list?

[Tim Ruppert]

That's kinda ridiculous BJ.  There are committer guidelines that if  
they are not being followed, then as a community we have to figure out  
what to do in that case.  If non-committers don't follow the rules of  
posting, do we still get their contributions in there?  I don't think  
so.  So, my only point is that there's no one out there who should get  
special treatment, but their history should be thought of and they  
should be asked to comply to the guidelines that the community has  
agreed upon.

Cheers,
Tim
--
Tim Ruppert
HotWax Media
http://www.hotwaxmedia.com

o:801.649.6594
f:801.649.6595


On Aug 16, 2008, at 10:23 AM, BJ Freeman wrote:

> So it comes down to :is his contribution worth the hassle".
> That would, imho, be like saying those that don't have commit rights
> should not be considered.
> But I find there are committers that are willing to make the extra
> effort to help those that can not.
> On that note as long as there is one commiter that is willing to  
> monitor
> or facilitate the changes Si makes, there should not be any action  
> taken.
>
> Only when every committer has voice a negative should there be any
> action take.
>
>
>
> Tim Ruppert sent the following on 8/16/2008 8:55 AM:
>> My position would be that if he doesn't want to be part of the
>> community, why should everyone else bear the burden of watching him  
>> more
>> closely than anyone else?  It's kinda ridiculous.
>>
>> That being said, Si has made invaluable contributions throughout the
>> years, so my vote would be to talk with him about following the best
>> practices of being a committer and give him this leeway to comply.
>> Should he continue to decide not too, it is not the responsibility of
>> the rest of the community to perform additional work because of it  
>> and
>> his rights should be removed.
>>
>> My two cents.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Tim
>> --
>> Tim Ruppert
>> HotWax Media
>> http://www.hotwaxmedia.com
>>
>> o:801.649.6594
>> f:801.649.6595
>>
>>
>> On Aug 16, 2008, at 9:04 AM, Jacopo Cappellato wrote:
>>
>>> I know this is an annoying situation, but since Si in the past few
>>> months has ignored our suggestion to discuss things in the mailing
>>> lists, instead of just writing uni-directional messages using  
>>> Jira, I
>>> don't think we will have any luck in this. I am sure he understands
>>> this is far from an optimal setup (as I am sure that he would be  
>>> able
>>> to create message filters for managing the volume of the ml  
>>> traffic),
>>> and we can't (nor want) force him to do something he has decided to
>>> not concede us.
>>>
>>> Jacopo
>>>
>>> On Aug 16, 2008, at 4:26 PM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>
>>>> How about we issue a "strongly worded letter?" ;-)
>>>>
>>>> Seriously though, when I first subscribed to the lists, I balked at
>>>> the volume of incoming mail. I still needed to read it so I set up
>>>> filters to sort it. I'm sure Si could do the same.
>>>>
>>>> I agree he should retain his commit privileges, but I also  
>>>> believe he
>>>> needs to participate in the dev list (at least).
>>>>
>>>> -Adrian
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --- On Fri, 8/15/08, David E Jones <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> From: David E Jones <[hidden email]>
>>>>> Subject: Re: svn commit: r686301 - in /ofbiz/trunk/framework/
>>>>> webapp:
>>>>> dtd/site-conf.xsd src/org/ofbiz/webapp/control/
>>>>> ConfigXMLReader.java
>>>>> src/org/ofbiz/webapp/control/RequestHandler.java
>>>>> To: [hidden email]
>>>>> Date: Friday, August 15, 2008, 9:01 PM
>>>>> On Aug 15, 2008, at 2:20 PM, Adam Heath wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Scott Gray wrote:
>>>>>>> Forwarding since Si doesn't subscribe to the
>>>>> dev list
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Er, he has commit access, but doesn't subscribe?
>>>>> Should this be
>>>>>> disallowed?
>>>>>
>>>>> There are definitely people that have a problem with this,
>>>>> and it is a
>>>>> weird situation. It is true that all committers should
>>>>> follow the dev
>>>>> list and watch for things for them, as well as for things
>>>>> that relate
>>>>> to things they have worked on. They should also monitor the
>>>>> commits
>>>>> list to monitor all changes to areas of the project they
>>>>> are familiar
>>>>> with.
>>>>>
>>>>> Unfortunately Si seems to have chosen not to do this, and
>>>>> not to stay
>>>>> involved in this way with OFBiz. It's also unfortunate
>>>>> that he doesn't
>>>>> discuss his changes a whole lot, and issues do tend to come
>>>>> up with
>>>>> them that are often not resolved or not adequately
>>>>> resolved. In other
>>>>> words, he usually uses his commit privileges to get things
>>>>> into the
>>>>> project quickly for his convenience and isn't really
>>>>> participating in
>>>>> the community.
>>>>>
>>>>> While unfortunate, what to do about it is another question.
>>>>> Should the
>>>>> PMC really vote to remove his commit privileges? My guess
>>>>> is no, that
>>>>> wouldn't be a good action or conducive to community
>>>>> building.
>>>>>
>>>>> So instead we keep a close eye on his commits, knowing that
>>>>> dues to
>>>>> his infrequent community interactions and commits that he
>>>>> may have a
>>>>> harder time with things that he puts in. Along with this,
>>>>> as Scott
>>>>> mentioned, he does contribute valuable things here and
>>>>> there and that
>>>>> is great for the project. There are other people in this
>>>>> boat to, and
>>>>> really all committers should review the work of other
>>>>> committers for
>>>>> the sake of the project.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, it's something on the back-burner and not
>>>>> something that there
>>>>> seems to be something to do about right away, and whether
>>>>> there is
>>>>> anything the PMC could do to improve the situation or not
>>>>> is still a
>>>>> big question.
>>>>>
>>>>> -David
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

[Tim Ruppert]

+1 - if we have requirements - let's follow them.

Cheers,
Tim
--
Tim Ruppert
HotWax Media
http://www.hotwaxmedia.com

o:801.649.6594
f:801.649.6595


On Aug 16, 2008, at 8:04 PM, Adam Heath wrote:

> Scott Gray wrote:
>> I'm pretty sure that if we removed Si's commit access then we would
>> probably never see another contribution from him.  So I guess the
>> community needs to decide if we would rather look a little closer at
>> his commits or not have them at all.
>
> Er, maybe.
>
> I've been a committer to OfBiz at two different times.  I was  
> removed the first time due to lack of involvment, and time.  OfBiz  
> switched hosting providers, and didn't bother to add me on the new  
> system, due to those two issues.  I was a little upset, it was true;  
> not because I was removed, but because I wasn't told I was removed.  
> However, I got over it.  I admitted I was too busy.
>
> However, that has now changed now.  I realized that it was worth my  
> while.
>
> To put it bluntly: commit access is not a right, but a privilege.  
> There are requirements one must follow to keep it.  The time  
> required to participate is not that much.
>
> I've worked with debian in the past, I know full well how much time  
> it takes; OfBiz participation is much simpler.  And, at least with  
> OfBiz, the payoffs to me and to who I work for are obvious.  Is it  
> too much to ask to be subscribed to this mailing list?