Refactoring our Wiki spaces
Locked
Refactoring our Wiki spaces
 
|
I am starting a new thread with a new subject in the dev list to discuss
the interesting topic about Wiki space cleanup/refactoring that was started by Jacques as an off topic (going off-topic is a bad habit that we should try to limit). In my opinion we could just have one Wiki space (open to contributors) and we could consolidate there all the content that is valuable. We could keep the existing spaces as an archive (removing all prominent links to them) until the new Wiki is completed. As regards the separate Wiki space for the PMC, I would wait before creating it at least until there is a clear evidence that such space is really required. Jacopo On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 12:51 PM, Jacques Le Roux < [hidden email]> wrote: > Sharan, > > Sorry to seem again out of subject, but you will see where I'm going to. > > The question we should ask ourselves, is when content/attachments in a > page should be only accessible to the PMC. > > For content we have not problems. Only contributors are able to modify > pages contents. Anyway this is not a problem because we (I at least) > monitor all changes in the wiki and if I see a change which should not > happen we (I) can still restore a correct version from history. As an admin > I can even restore a deleted page from the space trash. To be safe, admins > should always agree about deleting a page from the space trash, for > instance to vacuum when necessary. I noticed both these actions are > extremely rare. > > So far contributors are also able to add and delete news, comments and > attachments. We don't use news in the wiki, one issue less. Because it's > hard to retrieve comments and attachments, even as an admin (we need to ask > infra to look into an ASF wide backup), I suggest we remove the possibility > for contributors to delete news, comments and attachments. Then we are > safe from all changes and we no longer need a distinction between open and > closed wiki :) If nobody disagree I'd do that in few days. > > BTW while at it I noticed Amit Gadaley had no rights, I gave him the > needed. > > Jacques > > > Le 17/08/2016 à 09:25, Sharan Foga a écrit : > >> Hi Jacques >> >> This is an interesting idea and it might have been good to start a new >> thread as it has digressed a little off topic again :-) >> >> In theory I agree that we do need to do some tidy up and consolidating >> into 2 spaces sounds like it could work well. We just need to see how to >> merge the data from the existing spaces and also add a good navigation >> system so that people can find things easily. >> >> Back to original topic – I don't think that we can consolidate all the >> marketing information into a restricted space mainly because I think we >> will need to allow for the ability for any contributor to add new papers >> and presentations. As a first step though – we could remove the wiki >> page and move the data to the project admin space for now and see how that >> works. >> >> >> Thanks >> Sharan >> >> On 2016-08-17 07:41 (+0200), Jacques Le Roux < >> [hidden email]> wrote: >> >>> Hi Sharan, >>> >>> I thought about that, and I believe we should not add a new page but >>> rather complete the Material+for+Branding+and+Marketing page by using >>> what's >>> interesting in the General+Material+for+Branding+and+Marketing page and >>> then drop it. >>> >>> To answer Taher's message, I believe we face a mess and this remembers >>> me http://www.howtomakesenseofanymess.com/ Sharan suggested, I stopped >>> at >>> http://www.howtomakesenseofanymess.com/chapter/1/page/21/draw-your-mess/ >>> >>> I think the right attitude when facing a mess, is to CUT in it. >>> >>> * We need to drop, or at least put a lot of wiki pages in archives. >>> * For that we could create a specific OFBiz archive space, not linked >>> from the other spaces. >>> * I also suggest to have only 2 other spaces, one completely open, >>> where most pages should be. >>> * And one only accessible to PMC (and committers?) where really >>> sensible information should be, these last pages should be very rare and >>> only when >>> really needed. >>> >>> Then we can improve the content of "Documentation" menu-link from >>> http://ofbiz.apache.org/ . Notably >>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBADMIN/OFBiz+ >>> Documentation+Index (hint: this is also kinda an answer to Taher) >>> >>> Trying to improve navigation before cutting in the mess, will have a >>> tendency to fail... What do you think? >>> >>> Jacques >>> >>> >>> Le 16/08/2016 14:58, Jacques Le Roux a crit : >>> >>>> Hi Sharan, >>>> >>>> I suggested at https://cwiki.apache.org/confl >>>> uence/display/OFBADMIN/Material+for+Branding+and+Marketing? >>>> focusedCommentId=65865874#comment-65865874 >>>> >>>> to remove the page below because I tried yesterday to move the images >>>> from the page above to the one below. I wanted to merge the 2 pages, a >>>> reason >>>> I afterwards renamed the page above. Another reason I afterwards >>>> renamed the page is because when in Confluence you put special characters, >>>> like >>>> parenthesis, etc., in the title then you don't get a nice title for the >>>> page, but a number :/ >>>> >>>> But it's hard to *move* attachments in bulk in Confluence. You have to >>>> do it one by one :/ >>>> >>>> So I tried to download them all and upload them back to the page below. >>>> But the process failed in the middle. You might also notice that it's hard >>>> to *remove* attachments in bulk in Confluence. You have to do it one by >>>> one :/ >>>> >>>> That's why I suggested to put this page in archive (actually deleting >>>> it lets it in the space's trash >>>> https://confluence.atlassian.com/doc/delete-or-restore-a-pag >>>> e-139429.html) and to create a new one. I also tried to watch the >>>> Powerpoint there (on >>>> WIndows using the the Powerpoint viewer!) but it failed, so there is >>>> nothing to keep there! I suggest to drop it and create a brand new page, >>>> inspired by the page below, for the ideas you rightly suggested. >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> >>>> Jacques >>>> >>>> >>>> Le 16/08/2016 11:03, Sharan Foga a crit : >>>> >>>>> Hi Everyone >>>>> >>>>> We currently have a page in the wiki that was used initially for >>>>> branding and marketing but has now has a lot of broken links. >>>>> >>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/General+ >>>>> Material+for+Branding+and+Marketing >>>>> >>>>> The logo files don't need to be on this page as they are all available >>>>> elsewhere. Rather than remove it I suggest that it could be tidied up and >>>>> that the page focus (and name) could be changed to make it into one >>>>> that links to OFBiz white papers, OFBIz presentations, etc. >>>>> >>>>> I'm not sure if we already have something like this or if it covered >>>>> as part of OFBiz in the news but I think having this type of material >>>>> available could be good for newcomers. What do people think? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks >>>>> Sharan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> > |
Re: Refactoring our Wiki spaces
Administrator
|
Jacopo,
Thanks for the new thread creation. I wanted to relate the previous thread with my suggestion because of, IMO, the needed merge between the 2 "marketing pages". Good idea about keeping the old spaces as archives w/o entering links. With my suggestion I trust no Wiki space for the PMC should be needed, we just need to agree on removing delete permissions for contributors. If a contributor spot a page, a comment or an attachment to be deleted then just by asking for it in a comment should be enough. So far I have not seen much deletion from contributors so it should not be an issue. Jacques Le 17/08/2016 à 15:17, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit : > I am starting a new thread with a new subject in the dev list to discuss > the interesting topic about Wiki space cleanup/refactoring that was started > by Jacques as an off topic (going off-topic is a bad habit that we should > try to limit). > > In my opinion we could just have one Wiki space (open to contributors) and > we could consolidate there all the content that is valuable. We could keep > the existing spaces as an archive (removing all prominent links to them) > until the new Wiki is completed. > > As regards the separate Wiki space for the PMC, I would wait before > creating it at least until there is a clear evidence that such space is > really required. > > Jacopo > > > On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 12:51 PM, Jacques Le Roux < > [hidden email]> wrote: > >> Sharan, >> >> Sorry to seem again out of subject, but you will see where I'm going to. >> >> The question we should ask ourselves, is when content/attachments in a >> page should be only accessible to the PMC. >> >> For content we have not problems. Only contributors are able to modify >> pages contents. Anyway this is not a problem because we (I at least) >> monitor all changes in the wiki and if I see a change which should not >> happen we (I) can still restore a correct version from history. As an admin >> I can even restore a deleted page from the space trash. To be safe, admins >> should always agree about deleting a page from the space trash, for >> instance to vacuum when necessary. I noticed both these actions are >> extremely rare. >> >> So far contributors are also able to add and delete news, comments and >> attachments. We don't use news in the wiki, one issue less. Because it's >> hard to retrieve comments and attachments, even as an admin (we need to ask >> infra to look into an ASF wide backup), I suggest we remove the possibility >> for contributors to delete news, comments and attachments. Then we are >> safe from all changes and we no longer need a distinction between open and >> closed wiki :) If nobody disagree I'd do that in few days. >> >> BTW while at it I noticed Amit Gadaley had no rights, I gave him the >> needed. >> >> Jacques >> >> >> Le 17/08/2016 à 09:25, Sharan Foga a écrit : >> >>> Hi Jacques >>> >>> This is an interesting idea and it might have been good to start a new >>> thread as it has digressed a little off topic again :-) >>> >>> In theory I agree that we do need to do some tidy up and consolidating >>> into 2 spaces sounds like it could work well. We just need to see how to >>> merge the data from the existing spaces and also add a good navigation >>> system so that people can find things easily. >>> >>> Back to original topic – I don't think that we can consolidate all the >>> marketing information into a restricted space mainly because I think we >>> will need to allow for the ability for any contributor to add new papers >>> and presentations. As a first step though – we could remove the wiki >>> page and move the data to the project admin space for now and see how that >>> works. >>> >>> >>> Thanks >>> Sharan >>> >>> On 2016-08-17 07:41 (+0200), Jacques Le Roux < >>> [hidden email]> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Sharan, >>>> >>>> I thought about that, and I believe we should not add a new page but >>>> rather complete the Material+for+Branding+and+Marketing page by using >>>> what's >>>> interesting in the General+Material+for+Branding+and+Marketing page and >>>> then drop it. >>>> >>>> To answer Taher's message, I believe we face a mess and this remembers >>>> me http://www.howtomakesenseofanymess.com/ Sharan suggested, I stopped >>>> at >>>> http://www.howtomakesenseofanymess.com/chapter/1/page/21/draw-your-mess/ >>>> >>>> I think the right attitude when facing a mess, is to CUT in it. >>>> >>>> * We need to drop, or at least put a lot of wiki pages in archives. >>>> * For that we could create a specific OFBiz archive space, not linked >>>> from the other spaces. >>>> * I also suggest to have only 2 other spaces, one completely open, >>>> where most pages should be. >>>> * And one only accessible to PMC (and committers?) where really >>>> sensible information should be, these last pages should be very rare and >>>> only when >>>> really needed. >>>> >>>> Then we can improve the content of "Documentation" menu-link from >>>> http://ofbiz.apache.org/ . Notably >>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBADMIN/OFBiz+ >>>> Documentation+Index (hint: this is also kinda an answer to Taher) >>>> >>>> Trying to improve navigation before cutting in the mess, will have a >>>> tendency to fail... What do you think? >>>> >>>> Jacques >>>> >>>> >>>> Le 16/08/2016 14:58, Jacques Le Roux a crit : >>>> >>>>> Hi Sharan, >>>>> >>>>> I suggested at https://cwiki.apache.org/confl >>>>> uence/display/OFBADMIN/Material+for+Branding+and+Marketing? >>>>> focusedCommentId=65865874#comment-65865874 >>>>> >>>>> to remove the page below because I tried yesterday to move the images >>>>> from the page above to the one below. I wanted to merge the 2 pages, a >>>>> reason >>>>> I afterwards renamed the page above. Another reason I afterwards >>>>> renamed the page is because when in Confluence you put special characters, >>>>> like >>>>> parenthesis, etc., in the title then you don't get a nice title for the >>>>> page, but a number :/ >>>>> >>>>> But it's hard to *move* attachments in bulk in Confluence. You have to >>>>> do it one by one :/ >>>>> >>>>> So I tried to download them all and upload them back to the page below. >>>>> But the process failed in the middle. You might also notice that it's hard >>>>> to *remove* attachments in bulk in Confluence. You have to do it one by >>>>> one :/ >>>>> >>>>> That's why I suggested to put this page in archive (actually deleting >>>>> it lets it in the space's trash >>>>> https://confluence.atlassian.com/doc/delete-or-restore-a-pag >>>>> e-139429.html) and to create a new one. I also tried to watch the >>>>> Powerpoint there (on >>>>> WIndows using the the Powerpoint viewer!) but it failed, so there is >>>>> nothing to keep there! I suggest to drop it and create a brand new page, >>>>> inspired by the page below, for the ideas you rightly suggested. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks >>>>> >>>>> Jacques >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Le 16/08/2016 11:03, Sharan Foga a crit : >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Everyone >>>>>> >>>>>> We currently have a page in the wiki that was used initially for >>>>>> branding and marketing but has now has a lot of broken links. >>>>>> >>>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/General+ >>>>>> Material+for+Branding+and+Marketing >>>>>> >>>>>> The logo files don't need to be on this page as they are all available >>>>>> elsewhere. Rather than remove it I suggest that it could be tidied up and >>>>>> that the page focus (and name) could be changed to make it into one >>>>>> that links to OFBiz white papers, OFBIz presentations, etc. >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm not sure if we already have something like this or if it covered >>>>>> as part of OFBiz in the news but I think having this type of material >>>>>> available could be good for newcomers. What do people think? >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks >>>>>> Sharan >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> |
Re: Refactoring our Wiki spaces
|
|
My preference is to let contributors to delete content, since this didn't
cause big problems until now; we may revisit this topic if we will experience any problems in the future. Jacopo On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 4:06 PM, Jacques Le Roux < [hidden email]> wrote: > Jacopo, > > Thanks for the new thread creation. I wanted to relate the previous thread > with my suggestion because of, IMO, the needed merge between the 2 > "marketing pages". > > Good idea about keeping the old spaces as archives w/o entering links. > > With my suggestion I trust no Wiki space for the PMC should be needed, we > just need to agree on removing delete permissions for contributors. > > If a contributor spot a page, a comment or an attachment to be deleted > then just by asking for it in a comment should be enough. > > So far I have not seen much deletion from contributors so it should not be > an issue. > > Jacques > > > > Le 17/08/2016 à 15:17, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit : > >> I am starting a new thread with a new subject in the dev list to discuss >> the interesting topic about Wiki space cleanup/refactoring that was >> started >> by Jacques as an off topic (going off-topic is a bad habit that we should >> try to limit). >> >> In my opinion we could just have one Wiki space (open to contributors) and >> we could consolidate there all the content that is valuable. We could keep >> the existing spaces as an archive (removing all prominent links to them) >> until the new Wiki is completed. >> >> As regards the separate Wiki space for the PMC, I would wait before >> creating it at least until there is a clear evidence that such space is >> really required. >> >> Jacopo >> >> >> On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 12:51 PM, Jacques Le Roux < >> [hidden email]> wrote: >> >> Sharan, >>> >>> Sorry to seem again out of subject, but you will see where I'm going to. >>> >>> The question we should ask ourselves, is when content/attachments in a >>> page should be only accessible to the PMC. >>> >>> For content we have not problems. Only contributors are able to modify >>> pages contents. Anyway this is not a problem because we (I at least) >>> monitor all changes in the wiki and if I see a change which should not >>> happen we (I) can still restore a correct version from history. As an >>> admin >>> I can even restore a deleted page from the space trash. To be safe, >>> admins >>> should always agree about deleting a page from the space trash, for >>> instance to vacuum when necessary. I noticed both these actions are >>> extremely rare. >>> >>> So far contributors are also able to add and delete news, comments and >>> attachments. We don't use news in the wiki, one issue less. Because it's >>> hard to retrieve comments and attachments, even as an admin (we need to >>> ask >>> infra to look into an ASF wide backup), I suggest we remove the >>> possibility >>> for contributors to delete news, comments and attachments. Then we are >>> safe from all changes and we no longer need a distinction between open >>> and >>> closed wiki :) If nobody disagree I'd do that in few days. >>> >>> BTW while at it I noticed Amit Gadaley had no rights, I gave him the >>> needed. >>> >>> Jacques >>> >>> >>> Le 17/08/2016 à 09:25, Sharan Foga a écrit : >>> >>> Hi Jacques >>>> >>>> This is an interesting idea and it might have been good to start a new >>>> thread as it has digressed a little off topic again :-) >>>> >>>> In theory I agree that we do need to do some tidy up and consolidating >>>> into 2 spaces sounds like it could work well. We just need to see how to >>>> merge the data from the existing spaces and also add a good navigation >>>> system so that people can find things easily. >>>> >>>> Back to original topic – I don't think that we can consolidate all the >>>> marketing information into a restricted space mainly because I think we >>>> will need to allow for the ability for any contributor to add new papers >>>> and presentations. As a first step though – we could remove the wiki >>>> page and move the data to the project admin space for now and see how >>>> that >>>> works. >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> Sharan >>>> >>>> On 2016-08-17 07:41 (+0200), Jacques Le Roux < >>>> [hidden email]> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Sharan, >>>>> >>>>> I thought about that, and I believe we should not add a new page but >>>>> rather complete the Material+for+Branding+and+Marketing page by using >>>>> what's >>>>> interesting in the General+Material+for+Branding+and+Marketing page >>>>> and >>>>> then drop it. >>>>> >>>>> To answer Taher's message, I believe we face a mess and this remembers >>>>> me http://www.howtomakesenseofanymess.com/ Sharan suggested, I stopped >>>>> at >>>>> http://www.howtomakesenseofanymess.com/chapter/1/page/21/ >>>>> draw-your-mess/ >>>>> >>>>> I think the right attitude when facing a mess, is to CUT in it. >>>>> >>>>> * We need to drop, or at least put a lot of wiki pages in archives. >>>>> * For that we could create a specific OFBiz archive space, not >>>>> linked >>>>> from the other spaces. >>>>> * I also suggest to have only 2 other spaces, one completely open, >>>>> where most pages should be. >>>>> * And one only accessible to PMC (and committers?) where really >>>>> sensible information should be, these last pages should be very rare >>>>> and >>>>> only when >>>>> really needed. >>>>> >>>>> Then we can improve the content of "Documentation" menu-link from >>>>> http://ofbiz.apache.org/ . Notably >>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBADMIN/OFBiz+ >>>>> Documentation+Index (hint: this is also kinda an answer to Taher) >>>>> >>>>> Trying to improve navigation before cutting in the mess, will have a >>>>> tendency to fail... What do you think? >>>>> >>>>> Jacques >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Le 16/08/2016 14:58, Jacques Le Roux a crit : >>>>> >>>>> Hi Sharan, >>>>>> >>>>>> I suggested at https://cwiki.apache.org/confl >>>>>> uence/display/OFBADMIN/Material+for+Branding+and+Marketing? >>>>>> focusedCommentId=65865874#comment-65865874 >>>>>> >>>>>> to remove the page below because I tried yesterday to move the images >>>>>> from the page above to the one below. I wanted to merge the 2 pages, a >>>>>> reason >>>>>> I afterwards renamed the page above. Another reason I afterwards >>>>>> renamed the page is because when in Confluence you put special >>>>>> characters, >>>>>> like >>>>>> parenthesis, etc., in the title then you don't get a nice title for >>>>>> the >>>>>> page, but a number :/ >>>>>> >>>>>> But it's hard to *move* attachments in bulk in Confluence. You have to >>>>>> do it one by one :/ >>>>>> >>>>>> So I tried to download them all and upload them back to the page >>>>>> below. >>>>>> But the process failed in the middle. You might also notice that it's >>>>>> hard >>>>>> to *remove* attachments in bulk in Confluence. You have to do it one >>>>>> by >>>>>> one :/ >>>>>> >>>>>> That's why I suggested to put this page in archive (actually deleting >>>>>> it lets it in the space's trash >>>>>> https://confluence.atlassian.com/doc/delete-or-restore-a-pag >>>>>> e-139429.html) and to create a new one. I also tried to watch the >>>>>> Powerpoint there (on >>>>>> WIndows using the the Powerpoint viewer!) but it failed, so there is >>>>>> nothing to keep there! I suggest to drop it and create a brand new >>>>>> page, >>>>>> inspired by the page below, for the ideas you rightly suggested. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks >>>>>> >>>>>> Jacques >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Le 16/08/2016 11:03, Sharan Foga a crit : >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Everyone >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We currently have a page in the wiki that was used initially for >>>>>>> branding and marketing but has now has a lot of broken links. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/General+ >>>>>>> Material+for+Branding+and+Marketing >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The logo files don't need to be on this page as they are all >>>>>>> available >>>>>>> elsewhere. Rather than remove it I suggest that it could be tidied >>>>>>> up and >>>>>>> that the page focus (and name) could be changed to make it into one >>>>>>> that links to OFBiz white papers, OFBIz presentations, etc. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm not sure if we already have something like this or if it covered >>>>>>> as part of OFBiz in the news but I think having this type of material >>>>>>> available could be good for newcomers. What do people think? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>> Sharan >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> > |
Re: Refactoring our Wiki spaces
|
Administrator
|
As I explained below "Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 12:51 PM", content is not a problem because it's still in page history or space trash. The problem is with
comments and attachments, see my previous explanation and question. Maybe you implicitly agree about what I suggested about news, comments and attachment? Jacques Le 17/08/2016 à 17:12, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit : > My preference is to let contributors to delete content, since this didn't > cause big problems until now; we may revisit this topic if we will > experience any problems in the future. > > Jacopo > > On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 4:06 PM, Jacques Le Roux < > [hidden email]> wrote: > >> Jacopo, >> >> Thanks for the new thread creation. I wanted to relate the previous thread >> with my suggestion because of, IMO, the needed merge between the 2 >> "marketing pages". >> >> Good idea about keeping the old spaces as archives w/o entering links. >> >> With my suggestion I trust no Wiki space for the PMC should be needed, we >> just need to agree on removing delete permissions for contributors. >> >> If a contributor spot a page, a comment or an attachment to be deleted >> then just by asking for it in a comment should be enough. >> >> So far I have not seen much deletion from contributors so it should not be >> an issue. >> >> Jacques >> >> >> >> Le 17/08/2016 à 15:17, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit : >> >>> I am starting a new thread with a new subject in the dev list to discuss >>> the interesting topic about Wiki space cleanup/refactoring that was >>> started >>> by Jacques as an off topic (going off-topic is a bad habit that we should >>> try to limit). >>> >>> In my opinion we could just have one Wiki space (open to contributors) and >>> we could consolidate there all the content that is valuable. We could keep >>> the existing spaces as an archive (removing all prominent links to them) >>> until the new Wiki is completed. >>> >>> As regards the separate Wiki space for the PMC, I would wait before >>> creating it at least until there is a clear evidence that such space is >>> really required. >>> >>> Jacopo >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 12:51 PM, Jacques Le Roux < >>> [hidden email]> wrote: >>> >>> Sharan, >>>> Sorry to seem again out of subject, but you will see where I'm going to. >>>> >>>> The question we should ask ourselves, is when content/attachments in a >>>> page should be only accessible to the PMC. >>>> >>>> For content we have not problems. Only contributors are able to modify >>>> pages contents. Anyway this is not a problem because we (I at least) >>>> monitor all changes in the wiki and if I see a change which should not >>>> happen we (I) can still restore a correct version from history. As an >>>> admin >>>> I can even restore a deleted page from the space trash. To be safe, >>>> admins >>>> should always agree about deleting a page from the space trash, for >>>> instance to vacuum when necessary. I noticed both these actions are >>>> extremely rare. >>>> >>>> So far contributors are also able to add and delete news, comments and >>>> attachments. We don't use news in the wiki, one issue less. Because it's >>>> hard to retrieve comments and attachments, even as an admin (we need to >>>> ask >>>> infra to look into an ASF wide backup), I suggest we remove the >>>> possibility >>>> for contributors to delete news, comments and attachments. Then we are >>>> safe from all changes and we no longer need a distinction between open >>>> and >>>> closed wiki :) If nobody disagree I'd do that in few days. >>>> >>>> BTW while at it I noticed Amit Gadaley had no rights, I gave him the >>>> needed. >>>> >>>> Jacques >>>> >>>> >>>> Le 17/08/2016 à 09:25, Sharan Foga a écrit : >>>> >>>> Hi Jacques >>>>> This is an interesting idea and it might have been good to start a new >>>>> thread as it has digressed a little off topic again :-) >>>>> >>>>> In theory I agree that we do need to do some tidy up and consolidating >>>>> into 2 spaces sounds like it could work well. We just need to see how to >>>>> merge the data from the existing spaces and also add a good navigation >>>>> system so that people can find things easily. >>>>> >>>>> Back to original topic – I don't think that we can consolidate all the >>>>> marketing information into a restricted space mainly because I think we >>>>> will need to allow for the ability for any contributor to add new papers >>>>> and presentations. As a first step though – we could remove the wiki >>>>> page and move the data to the project admin space for now and see how >>>>> that >>>>> works. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thanks >>>>> Sharan >>>>> >>>>> On 2016-08-17 07:41 (+0200), Jacques Le Roux < >>>>> [hidden email]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi Sharan, >>>>>> I thought about that, and I believe we should not add a new page but >>>>>> rather complete the Material+for+Branding+and+Marketing page by using >>>>>> what's >>>>>> interesting in the General+Material+for+Branding+and+Marketing page >>>>>> and >>>>>> then drop it. >>>>>> >>>>>> To answer Taher's message, I believe we face a mess and this remembers >>>>>> me http://www.howtomakesenseofanymess.com/ Sharan suggested, I stopped >>>>>> at >>>>>> http://www.howtomakesenseofanymess.com/chapter/1/page/21/ >>>>>> draw-your-mess/ >>>>>> >>>>>> I think the right attitude when facing a mess, is to CUT in it. >>>>>> >>>>>> * We need to drop, or at least put a lot of wiki pages in archives. >>>>>> * For that we could create a specific OFBiz archive space, not >>>>>> linked >>>>>> from the other spaces. >>>>>> * I also suggest to have only 2 other spaces, one completely open, >>>>>> where most pages should be. >>>>>> * And one only accessible to PMC (and committers?) where really >>>>>> sensible information should be, these last pages should be very rare >>>>>> and >>>>>> only when >>>>>> really needed. >>>>>> >>>>>> Then we can improve the content of "Documentation" menu-link from >>>>>> http://ofbiz.apache.org/ . Notably >>>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBADMIN/OFBiz+ >>>>>> Documentation+Index (hint: this is also kinda an answer to Taher) >>>>>> >>>>>> Trying to improve navigation before cutting in the mess, will have a >>>>>> tendency to fail... What do you think? >>>>>> >>>>>> Jacques >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Le 16/08/2016 14:58, Jacques Le Roux a crit : >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Sharan, >>>>>>> I suggested at https://cwiki.apache.org/confl >>>>>>> uence/display/OFBADMIN/Material+for+Branding+and+Marketing? >>>>>>> focusedCommentId=65865874#comment-65865874 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> to remove the page below because I tried yesterday to move the images >>>>>>> from the page above to the one below. I wanted to merge the 2 pages, a >>>>>>> reason >>>>>>> I afterwards renamed the page above. Another reason I afterwards >>>>>>> renamed the page is because when in Confluence you put special >>>>>>> characters, >>>>>>> like >>>>>>> parenthesis, etc., in the title then you don't get a nice title for >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> page, but a number :/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But it's hard to *move* attachments in bulk in Confluence. You have to >>>>>>> do it one by one :/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So I tried to download them all and upload them back to the page >>>>>>> below. >>>>>>> But the process failed in the middle. You might also notice that it's >>>>>>> hard >>>>>>> to *remove* attachments in bulk in Confluence. You have to do it one >>>>>>> by >>>>>>> one :/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> That's why I suggested to put this page in archive (actually deleting >>>>>>> it lets it in the space's trash >>>>>>> https://confluence.atlassian.com/doc/delete-or-restore-a-pag >>>>>>> e-139429.html) and to create a new one. I also tried to watch the >>>>>>> Powerpoint there (on >>>>>>> WIndows using the the Powerpoint viewer!) but it failed, so there is >>>>>>> nothing to keep there! I suggest to drop it and create a brand new >>>>>>> page, >>>>>>> inspired by the page below, for the ideas you rightly suggested. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Jacques >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Le 16/08/2016 11:03, Sharan Foga a crit : >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Everyone >>>>>>>> We currently have a page in the wiki that was used initially for >>>>>>>> branding and marketing but has now has a lot of broken links. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/General+ >>>>>>>> Material+for+Branding+and+Marketing >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The logo files don't need to be on this page as they are all >>>>>>>> available >>>>>>>> elsewhere. Rather than remove it I suggest that it could be tidied >>>>>>>> up and >>>>>>>> that the page focus (and name) could be changed to make it into one >>>>>>>> that links to OFBiz white papers, OFBIz presentations, etc. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm not sure if we already have something like this or if it covered >>>>>>>> as part of OFBiz in the news but I think having this type of material >>>>>>>> available could be good for newcomers. What do people think? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>> Sharan >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> |
Re: Refactoring our Wiki spaces
|
|
I am not too much concerned about comments being deleted because the value
of comments should be transient (if not their content should be embedded in the page). For attachments I see that it would be an issue to loose them... but as far as I remember we had no problems in the past so maybe we could try to leave permissions as they are now. However I don't have a strong opinion on this topic, both ways are ok to me. Jacopo On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 6:16 PM, Jacques Le Roux < [hidden email]> wrote: > As I explained below "Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 12:51 PM", content is not a > problem because it's still in page history or space trash. The problem is > with comments and attachments, see my previous explanation and question. > > Maybe you implicitly agree about what I suggested about news, comments and > attachment? > > Jacques > > > > Le 17/08/2016 à 17:12, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit : > >> My preference is to let contributors to delete content, since this didn't >> cause big problems until now; we may revisit this topic if we will >> experience any problems in the future. >> >> Jacopo >> >> On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 4:06 PM, Jacques Le Roux < >> [hidden email]> wrote: >> >> Jacopo, >>> >>> Thanks for the new thread creation. I wanted to relate the previous >>> thread >>> with my suggestion because of, IMO, the needed merge between the 2 >>> "marketing pages". >>> >>> Good idea about keeping the old spaces as archives w/o entering links. >>> >>> With my suggestion I trust no Wiki space for the PMC should be needed, we >>> just need to agree on removing delete permissions for contributors. >>> >>> If a contributor spot a page, a comment or an attachment to be deleted >>> then just by asking for it in a comment should be enough. >>> >>> So far I have not seen much deletion from contributors so it should not >>> be >>> an issue. >>> >>> Jacques >>> >>> >>> >>> Le 17/08/2016 à 15:17, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit : >>> >>> I am starting a new thread with a new subject in the dev list to discuss >>>> the interesting topic about Wiki space cleanup/refactoring that was >>>> started >>>> by Jacques as an off topic (going off-topic is a bad habit that we >>>> should >>>> try to limit). >>>> >>>> In my opinion we could just have one Wiki space (open to contributors) >>>> and >>>> we could consolidate there all the content that is valuable. We could >>>> keep >>>> the existing spaces as an archive (removing all prominent links to them) >>>> until the new Wiki is completed. >>>> >>>> As regards the separate Wiki space for the PMC, I would wait before >>>> creating it at least until there is a clear evidence that such space is >>>> really required. >>>> >>>> Jacopo >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 12:51 PM, Jacques Le Roux < >>>> [hidden email]> wrote: >>>> >>>> Sharan, >>>> >>>>> Sorry to seem again out of subject, but you will see where I'm going >>>>> to. >>>>> >>>>> The question we should ask ourselves, is when content/attachments in a >>>>> page should be only accessible to the PMC. >>>>> >>>>> For content we have not problems. Only contributors are able to modify >>>>> pages contents. Anyway this is not a problem because we (I at least) >>>>> monitor all changes in the wiki and if I see a change which should not >>>>> happen we (I) can still restore a correct version from history. As an >>>>> admin >>>>> I can even restore a deleted page from the space trash. To be safe, >>>>> admins >>>>> should always agree about deleting a page from the space trash, for >>>>> instance to vacuum when necessary. I noticed both these actions are >>>>> extremely rare. >>>>> >>>>> So far contributors are also able to add and delete news, comments and >>>>> attachments. We don't use news in the wiki, one issue less. Because >>>>> it's >>>>> hard to retrieve comments and attachments, even as an admin (we need to >>>>> ask >>>>> infra to look into an ASF wide backup), I suggest we remove the >>>>> possibility >>>>> for contributors to delete news, comments and attachments. Then we are >>>>> safe from all changes and we no longer need a distinction between open >>>>> and >>>>> closed wiki :) If nobody disagree I'd do that in few days. >>>>> >>>>> BTW while at it I noticed Amit Gadaley had no rights, I gave him the >>>>> needed. >>>>> >>>>> Jacques >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Le 17/08/2016 à 09:25, Sharan Foga a écrit : >>>>> >>>>> Hi Jacques >>>>> >>>>>> This is an interesting idea and it might have been good to start a new >>>>>> thread as it has digressed a little off topic again :-) >>>>>> >>>>>> In theory I agree that we do need to do some tidy up and consolidating >>>>>> into 2 spaces sounds like it could work well. We just need to see how >>>>>> to >>>>>> merge the data from the existing spaces and also add a good navigation >>>>>> system so that people can find things easily. >>>>>> >>>>>> Back to original topic – I don't think that we can consolidate all >>>>>> the >>>>>> marketing information into a restricted space mainly because I think >>>>>> we >>>>>> will need to allow for the ability for any contributor to add new >>>>>> papers >>>>>> and presentations. As a first step though – we could remove the >>>>>> wiki >>>>>> page and move the data to the project admin space for now and see how >>>>>> that >>>>>> works. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks >>>>>> Sharan >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2016-08-17 07:41 (+0200), Jacques Le Roux < >>>>>> [hidden email]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Sharan, >>>>>> >>>>>>> I thought about that, and I believe we should not add a new page but >>>>>>> rather complete the Material+for+Branding+and+Marketing page by >>>>>>> using >>>>>>> what's >>>>>>> interesting in the General+Material+for+Branding+and+Marketing page >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> then drop it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To answer Taher's message, I believe we face a mess and this >>>>>>> remembers >>>>>>> me http://www.howtomakesenseofanymess.com/ Sharan suggested, I >>>>>>> stopped >>>>>>> at >>>>>>> http://www.howtomakesenseofanymess.com/chapter/1/page/21/ >>>>>>> draw-your-mess/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think the right attitude when facing a mess, is to CUT in it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> * We need to drop, or at least put a lot of wiki pages in >>>>>>> archives. >>>>>>> * For that we could create a specific OFBiz archive space, not >>>>>>> linked >>>>>>> from the other spaces. >>>>>>> * I also suggest to have only 2 other spaces, one completely >>>>>>> open, >>>>>>> where most pages should be. >>>>>>> * And one only accessible to PMC (and committers?) where really >>>>>>> sensible information should be, these last pages should be very rare >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> only when >>>>>>> really needed. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Then we can improve the content of "Documentation" menu-link from >>>>>>> http://ofbiz.apache.org/ . Notably >>>>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBADMIN/OFBiz+ >>>>>>> Documentation+Index (hint: this is also kinda an answer to Taher) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Trying to improve navigation before cutting in the mess, will have a >>>>>>> tendency to fail... What do you think? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Jacques >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Le 16/08/2016 14:58, Jacques Le Roux a crit : >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Sharan, >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I suggested at https://cwiki.apache.org/confl >>>>>>>> uence/display/OFBADMIN/Material+for+Branding+and+Marketing? >>>>>>>> focusedCommentId=65865874#comment-65865874 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> to remove the page below because I tried yesterday to move the >>>>>>>> images >>>>>>>> from the page above to the one below. I wanted to merge the 2 >>>>>>>> pages, a >>>>>>>> reason >>>>>>>> I afterwards renamed the page above. Another reason I afterwards >>>>>>>> renamed the page is because when in Confluence you put special >>>>>>>> characters, >>>>>>>> like >>>>>>>> parenthesis, etc., in the title then you don't get a nice title for >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> page, but a number :/ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> But it's hard to *move* attachments in bulk in Confluence. You have >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> do it one by one :/ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> So I tried to download them all and upload them back to the page >>>>>>>> below. >>>>>>>> But the process failed in the middle. You might also notice that >>>>>>>> it's >>>>>>>> hard >>>>>>>> to *remove* attachments in bulk in Confluence. You have to do it one >>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>> one :/ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> That's why I suggested to put this page in archive (actually >>>>>>>> deleting >>>>>>>> it lets it in the space's trash >>>>>>>> https://confluence.atlassian.com/doc/delete-or-restore-a-pag >>>>>>>> e-139429.html) and to create a new one. I also tried to watch the >>>>>>>> Powerpoint there (on >>>>>>>> WIndows using the the Powerpoint viewer!) but it failed, so there is >>>>>>>> nothing to keep there! I suggest to drop it and create a brand new >>>>>>>> page, >>>>>>>> inspired by the page below, for the ideas you rightly suggested. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Jacques >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Le 16/08/2016 11:03, Sharan Foga a crit : >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Everyone >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> We currently have a page in the wiki that was used initially for >>>>>>>>> branding and marketing but has now has a lot of broken links. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/General+ >>>>>>>>> Material+for+Branding+and+Marketing >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The logo files don't need to be on this page as they are all >>>>>>>>> available >>>>>>>>> elsewhere. Rather than remove it I suggest that it could be tidied >>>>>>>>> up and >>>>>>>>> that the page focus (and name) could be changed to make it into one >>>>>>>>> that links to OFBiz white papers, OFBIz presentations, etc. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'm not sure if we already have something like this or if it >>>>>>>>> covered >>>>>>>>> as part of OFBiz in the news but I think having this type of >>>>>>>>> material >>>>>>>>> available could be good for newcomers. What do people think? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>>> Sharan >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> > |
|
|
In reply to this post by Jacques Le Roux
You're correct. Not many deletions were done by non privileged
contributors, and as far as I can tell no non-privileged contributor ever deleted the comment of another contributor. Mostly they were done by privileged contributors on non open pages (in the OFBIZADMIN space, meaning PMC Members). While there is version management on content, there is no version managment on comments. With every deletion of a comment (done by anybody else) made by a PMC Member a piece of history is gone for ever. And it could be regarded as censorship. Best regards, Pierre Smits ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com> OFBiz based solutions & services OFBiz Extensions Marketplace http://oem.ofbizci.net/oci-2/ On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 4:06 PM, Jacques Le Roux < [hidden email]> wrote: > Jacopo, > > Thanks for the new thread creation. I wanted to relate the previous thread > with my suggestion because of, IMO, the needed merge between the 2 > "marketing pages". > > Good idea about keeping the old spaces as archives w/o entering links. > > With my suggestion I trust no Wiki space for the PMC should be needed, we > just need to agree on removing delete permissions for contributors. > > If a contributor spot a page, a comment or an attachment to be deleted > then just by asking for it in a comment should be enough. > > So far I have not seen much deletion from contributors so it should not be > an issue. > > Jacques > > > > Le 17/08/2016 à 15:17, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit : > >> I am starting a new thread with a new subject in the dev list to discuss >> the interesting topic about Wiki space cleanup/refactoring that was >> started >> by Jacques as an off topic (going off-topic is a bad habit that we should >> try to limit). >> >> In my opinion we could just have one Wiki space (open to contributors) and >> we could consolidate there all the content that is valuable. We could keep >> the existing spaces as an archive (removing all prominent links to them) >> until the new Wiki is completed. >> >> As regards the separate Wiki space for the PMC, I would wait before >> creating it at least until there is a clear evidence that such space is >> really required. >> >> Jacopo >> >> >> On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 12:51 PM, Jacques Le Roux < >> [hidden email]> wrote: >> >> Sharan, >>> >>> Sorry to seem again out of subject, but you will see where I'm going to. >>> >>> The question we should ask ourselves, is when content/attachments in a >>> page should be only accessible to the PMC. >>> >>> For content we have not problems. Only contributors are able to modify >>> pages contents. Anyway this is not a problem because we (I at least) >>> monitor all changes in the wiki and if I see a change which should not >>> happen we (I) can still restore a correct version from history. As an >>> admin >>> I can even restore a deleted page from the space trash. To be safe, >>> admins >>> should always agree about deleting a page from the space trash, for >>> instance to vacuum when necessary. I noticed both these actions are >>> extremely rare. >>> >>> So far contributors are also able to add and delete news, comments and >>> attachments. We don't use news in the wiki, one issue less. Because it's >>> hard to retrieve comments and attachments, even as an admin (we need to >>> ask >>> infra to look into an ASF wide backup), I suggest we remove the >>> possibility >>> for contributors to delete news, comments and attachments. Then we are >>> safe from all changes and we no longer need a distinction between open >>> and >>> closed wiki :) If nobody disagree I'd do that in few days. >>> >>> BTW while at it I noticed Amit Gadaley had no rights, I gave him the >>> needed. >>> >>> Jacques >>> >>> >>> Le 17/08/2016 à 09:25, Sharan Foga a écrit : >>> >>> Hi Jacques >>>> >>>> This is an interesting idea and it might have been good to start a new >>>> thread as it has digressed a little off topic again :-) >>>> >>>> In theory I agree that we do need to do some tidy up and consolidating >>>> into 2 spaces sounds like it could work well. We just need to see how to >>>> merge the data from the existing spaces and also add a good navigation >>>> system so that people can find things easily. >>>> >>>> Back to original topic – I don't think that we can consolidate all the >>>> marketing information into a restricted space mainly because I think we >>>> will need to allow for the ability for any contributor to add new papers >>>> and presentations. As a first step though – we could remove the wiki >>>> page and move the data to the project admin space for now and see how >>>> that >>>> works. >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> Sharan >>>> >>>> On 2016-08-17 07:41 (+0200), Jacques Le Roux < >>>> [hidden email]> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Sharan, >>>>> >>>>> I thought about that, and I believe we should not add a new page but >>>>> rather complete the Material+for+Branding+and+Marketing page by using >>>>> what's >>>>> interesting in the General+Material+for+Branding+and+Marketing page >>>>> and >>>>> then drop it. >>>>> >>>>> To answer Taher's message, I believe we face a mess and this remembers >>>>> me http://www.howtomakesenseofanymess.com/ Sharan suggested, I stopped >>>>> at >>>>> http://www.howtomakesenseofanymess.com/chapter/1/page/21/ >>>>> draw-your-mess/ >>>>> >>>>> I think the right attitude when facing a mess, is to CUT in it. >>>>> >>>>> * We need to drop, or at least put a lot of wiki pages in archives. >>>>> * For that we could create a specific OFBiz archive space, not >>>>> linked >>>>> from the other spaces. >>>>> * I also suggest to have only 2 other spaces, one completely open, >>>>> where most pages should be. >>>>> * And one only accessible to PMC (and committers?) where really >>>>> sensible information should be, these last pages should be very rare >>>>> and >>>>> only when >>>>> really needed. >>>>> >>>>> Then we can improve the content of "Documentation" menu-link from >>>>> http://ofbiz.apache.org/ . Notably >>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBADMIN/OFBiz+ >>>>> Documentation+Index (hint: this is also kinda an answer to Taher) >>>>> >>>>> Trying to improve navigation before cutting in the mess, will have a >>>>> tendency to fail... What do you think? >>>>> >>>>> Jacques >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Le 16/08/2016 14:58, Jacques Le Roux a crit : >>>>> >>>>> Hi Sharan, >>>>>> >>>>>> I suggested at https://cwiki.apache.org/confl >>>>>> uence/display/OFBADMIN/Material+for+Branding+and+Marketing? >>>>>> focusedCommentId=65865874#comment-65865874 >>>>>> >>>>>> to remove the page below because I tried yesterday to move the images >>>>>> from the page above to the one below. I wanted to merge the 2 pages, a >>>>>> reason >>>>>> I afterwards renamed the page above. Another reason I afterwards >>>>>> renamed the page is because when in Confluence you put special >>>>>> characters, >>>>>> like >>>>>> parenthesis, etc., in the title then you don't get a nice title for >>>>>> the >>>>>> page, but a number :/ >>>>>> >>>>>> But it's hard to *move* attachments in bulk in Confluence. You have to >>>>>> do it one by one :/ >>>>>> >>>>>> So I tried to download them all and upload them back to the page >>>>>> below. >>>>>> But the process failed in the middle. You might also notice that it's >>>>>> hard >>>>>> to *remove* attachments in bulk in Confluence. You have to do it one >>>>>> by >>>>>> one :/ >>>>>> >>>>>> That's why I suggested to put this page in archive (actually deleting >>>>>> it lets it in the space's trash >>>>>> https://confluence.atlassian.com/doc/delete-or-restore-a-pag >>>>>> e-139429.html) and to create a new one. I also tried to watch the >>>>>> Powerpoint there (on >>>>>> WIndows using the the Powerpoint viewer!) but it failed, so there is >>>>>> nothing to keep there! I suggest to drop it and create a brand new >>>>>> page, >>>>>> inspired by the page below, for the ideas you rightly suggested. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks >>>>>> >>>>>> Jacques >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Le 16/08/2016 11:03, Sharan Foga a crit : >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Everyone >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We currently have a page in the wiki that was used initially for >>>>>>> branding and marketing but has now has a lot of broken links. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/General+ >>>>>>> Material+for+Branding+and+Marketing >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The logo files don't need to be on this page as they are all >>>>>>> available >>>>>>> elsewhere. Rather than remove it I suggest that it could be tidied >>>>>>> up and >>>>>>> that the page focus (and name) could be changed to make it into one >>>>>>> that links to OFBiz white papers, OFBIz presentations, etc. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm not sure if we already have something like this or if it covered >>>>>>> as part of OFBiz in the news but I think having this type of material >>>>>>> available could be good for newcomers. What do people think? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>> Sharan >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> > |
|
|
Easy solution (if possible) would be to disable comments altogether. If
there's a discussion to be had about a page it can go to the dev list or JIRA without risk of being deleted or creating any conspiracy theories about censorship. Being able to comment directly on a page is handy, but if we're going to go overboard worrying about comments being deleted/censored then it's better to just do away with them. Regards Scott On 18/08/2016 06:27, "Pierre Smits" <[hidden email]> wrote: > You're correct. Not many deletions were done by non privileged > contributors, and as far as I can tell no non-privileged contributor ever > deleted the comment of another contributor. > > Mostly they were done by privileged contributors on non open pages (in the > OFBIZADMIN space, meaning PMC Members). While there is version management > on content, there is no version managment on comments. > > With every deletion of a comment (done by anybody else) made by a PMC > Member a piece of history is gone for ever. And it could be regarded as > censorship. > > Best regards, > > > > Pierre Smits > > ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com> > OFBiz based solutions & services > > OFBiz Extensions Marketplace > http://oem.ofbizci.net/oci-2/ > > On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 4:06 PM, Jacques Le Roux < > [hidden email]> wrote: > > > Jacopo, > > > > Thanks for the new thread creation. I wanted to relate the previous > thread > > with my suggestion because of, IMO, the needed merge between the 2 > > "marketing pages". > > > > Good idea about keeping the old spaces as archives w/o entering links. > > > > With my suggestion I trust no Wiki space for the PMC should be needed, we > > just need to agree on removing delete permissions for contributors. > > > > If a contributor spot a page, a comment or an attachment to be deleted > > then just by asking for it in a comment should be enough. > > > > So far I have not seen much deletion from contributors so it should not > be > > an issue. > > > > Jacques > > > > > > > > Le 17/08/2016 à 15:17, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit : > > > >> I am starting a new thread with a new subject in the dev list to discuss > >> the interesting topic about Wiki space cleanup/refactoring that was > >> started > >> by Jacques as an off topic (going off-topic is a bad habit that we > should > >> try to limit). > >> > >> In my opinion we could just have one Wiki space (open to contributors) > and > >> we could consolidate there all the content that is valuable. We could > keep > >> the existing spaces as an archive (removing all prominent links to them) > >> until the new Wiki is completed. > >> > >> As regards the separate Wiki space for the PMC, I would wait before > >> creating it at least until there is a clear evidence that such space is > >> really required. > >> > >> Jacopo > >> > >> > >> On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 12:51 PM, Jacques Le Roux < > >> [hidden email]> wrote: > >> > >> Sharan, > >>> > >>> Sorry to seem again out of subject, but you will see where I'm going > to. > >>> > >>> The question we should ask ourselves, is when content/attachments in a > >>> page should be only accessible to the PMC. > >>> > >>> For content we have not problems. Only contributors are able to modify > >>> pages contents. Anyway this is not a problem because we (I at least) > >>> monitor all changes in the wiki and if I see a change which should not > >>> happen we (I) can still restore a correct version from history. As an > >>> admin > >>> I can even restore a deleted page from the space trash. To be safe, > >>> admins > >>> should always agree about deleting a page from the space trash, for > >>> instance to vacuum when necessary. I noticed both these actions are > >>> extremely rare. > >>> > >>> So far contributors are also able to add and delete news, comments and > >>> attachments. We don't use news in the wiki, one issue less. Because > it's > >>> hard to retrieve comments and attachments, even as an admin (we need to > >>> ask > >>> infra to look into an ASF wide backup), I suggest we remove the > >>> possibility > >>> for contributors to delete news, comments and attachments. Then we are > >>> safe from all changes and we no longer need a distinction between open > >>> and > >>> closed wiki :) If nobody disagree I'd do that in few days. > >>> > >>> BTW while at it I noticed Amit Gadaley had no rights, I gave him the > >>> needed. > >>> > >>> Jacques > >>> > >>> > >>> Le 17/08/2016 à 09:25, Sharan Foga a écrit : > >>> > >>> Hi Jacques > >>>> > >>>> This is an interesting idea and it might have been good to start a new > >>>> thread as it has digressed a little off topic again :-) > >>>> > >>>> In theory I agree that we do need to do some tidy up and consolidating > >>>> into 2 spaces sounds like it could work well. We just need to see how > to > >>>> merge the data from the existing spaces and also add a good navigation > >>>> system so that people can find things easily. > >>>> > >>>> Back to original topic – I don't think that we can consolidate all > the > >>>> marketing information into a restricted space mainly because I think > we > >>>> will need to allow for the ability for any contributor to add new > papers > >>>> and presentations. As a first step though – we could remove the > wiki > >>>> page and move the data to the project admin space for now and see how > >>>> that > >>>> works. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Thanks > >>>> Sharan > >>>> > >>>> On 2016-08-17 07:41 (+0200), Jacques Le Roux < > >>>> [hidden email]> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Hi Sharan, > >>>>> > >>>>> I thought about that, and I believe we should not add a new page but > >>>>> rather complete the Material+for+Branding+and+Marketing page by > using > >>>>> what's > >>>>> interesting in the General+Material+for+Branding+and+Marketing page > >>>>> and > >>>>> then drop it. > >>>>> > >>>>> To answer Taher's message, I believe we face a mess and this > remembers > >>>>> me http://www.howtomakesenseofanymess.com/ Sharan suggested, I > stopped > >>>>> at > >>>>> http://www.howtomakesenseofanymess.com/chapter/1/page/21/ > >>>>> draw-your-mess/ > >>>>> > >>>>> I think the right attitude when facing a mess, is to CUT in it. > >>>>> > >>>>> * We need to drop, or at least put a lot of wiki pages in > archives. > >>>>> * For that we could create a specific OFBiz archive space, not > >>>>> linked > >>>>> from the other spaces. > >>>>> * I also suggest to have only 2 other spaces, one completely > open, > >>>>> where most pages should be. > >>>>> * And one only accessible to PMC (and committers?) where really > >>>>> sensible information should be, these last pages should be very rare > >>>>> and > >>>>> only when > >>>>> really needed. > >>>>> > >>>>> Then we can improve the content of "Documentation" menu-link from > >>>>> http://ofbiz.apache.org/ . Notably > >>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBADMIN/OFBiz+ > >>>>> Documentation+Index (hint: this is also kinda an answer to Taher) > >>>>> > >>>>> Trying to improve navigation before cutting in the mess, will have a > >>>>> tendency to fail... What do you think? > >>>>> > >>>>> Jacques > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Le 16/08/2016 14:58, Jacques Le Roux a crit : > >>>>> > >>>>> Hi Sharan, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I suggested at https://cwiki.apache.org/confl > >>>>>> uence/display/OFBADMIN/Material+for+Branding+and+Marketing? > >>>>>> focusedCommentId=65865874#comment-65865874 > >>>>>> > >>>>>> to remove the page below because I tried yesterday to move the > images > >>>>>> from the page above to the one below. I wanted to merge the 2 > pages, a > >>>>>> reason > >>>>>> I afterwards renamed the page above. Another reason I afterwards > >>>>>> renamed the page is because when in Confluence you put special > >>>>>> characters, > >>>>>> like > >>>>>> parenthesis, etc., in the title then you don't get a nice title for > >>>>>> the > >>>>>> page, but a number :/ > >>>>>> > >>>>>> But it's hard to *move* attachments in bulk in Confluence. You have > to > >>>>>> do it one by one :/ > >>>>>> > >>>>>> So I tried to download them all and upload them back to the page > >>>>>> below. > >>>>>> But the process failed in the middle. You might also notice that > it's > >>>>>> hard > >>>>>> to *remove* attachments in bulk in Confluence. You have to do it one > >>>>>> by > >>>>>> one :/ > >>>>>> > >>>>>> That's why I suggested to put this page in archive (actually > deleting > >>>>>> it lets it in the space's trash > >>>>>> https://confluence.atlassian.com/doc/delete-or-restore-a-pag > >>>>>> e-139429.html) and to create a new one. I also tried to watch the > >>>>>> Powerpoint there (on > >>>>>> WIndows using the the Powerpoint viewer!) but it failed, so there is > >>>>>> nothing to keep there! I suggest to drop it and create a brand new > >>>>>> page, > >>>>>> inspired by the page below, for the ideas you rightly suggested. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Thanks > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Jacques > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Le 16/08/2016 11:03, Sharan Foga a crit : > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Hi Everyone > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> We currently have a page in the wiki that was used initially for > >>>>>>> branding and marketing but has now has a lot of broken links. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/General+ > >>>>>>> Material+for+Branding+and+Marketing > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> The logo files don't need to be on this page as they are all > >>>>>>> available > >>>>>>> elsewhere. Rather than remove it I suggest that it could be tidied > >>>>>>> up and > >>>>>>> that the page focus (and name) could be changed to make it into one > >>>>>>> that links to OFBiz white papers, OFBIz presentations, etc. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I'm not sure if we already have something like this or if it > covered > >>>>>>> as part of OFBiz in the news but I think having this type of > material > >>>>>>> available could be good for newcomers. What do people think? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Thanks > >>>>>>> Sharan > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > > > |
|
Agreed, the whole purpose of a wiki is to provide and organize information.
If we are going to worry about comments and "history" then we are using the wrong tool for that. History is the last thing I would care about, instead we should focus on having clean updated information. On Aug 18, 2016 7:29 AM, "Scott Gray" <[hidden email]> wrote: > Easy solution (if possible) would be to disable comments altogether. If > there's a discussion to be had about a page it can go to the dev list or > JIRA without risk of being deleted or creating any conspiracy theories > about censorship. > > Being able to comment directly on a page is handy, but if we're going to go > overboard worrying about comments being deleted/censored then it's better > to just do away with them. > > Regards > Scott > > On 18/08/2016 06:27, "Pierre Smits" <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > You're correct. Not many deletions were done by non privileged > > contributors, and as far as I can tell no non-privileged contributor ever > > deleted the comment of another contributor. > > > > Mostly they were done by privileged contributors on non open pages (in > the > > OFBIZADMIN space, meaning PMC Members). While there is version management > > on content, there is no version managment on comments. > > > > With every deletion of a comment (done by anybody else) made by a PMC > > Member a piece of history is gone for ever. And it could be regarded as > > censorship. > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > Pierre Smits > > > > ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com> > > OFBiz based solutions & services > > > > OFBiz Extensions Marketplace > > http://oem.ofbizci.net/oci-2/ > > > > On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 4:06 PM, Jacques Le Roux < > > [hidden email]> wrote: > > > > > Jacopo, > > > > > > Thanks for the new thread creation. I wanted to relate the previous > > thread > > > with my suggestion because of, IMO, the needed merge between the 2 > > > "marketing pages". > > > > > > Good idea about keeping the old spaces as archives w/o entering links. > > > > > > With my suggestion I trust no Wiki space for the PMC should be needed, > we > > > just need to agree on removing delete permissions for contributors. > > > > > > If a contributor spot a page, a comment or an attachment to be deleted > > > then just by asking for it in a comment should be enough. > > > > > > So far I have not seen much deletion from contributors so it should not > > be > > > an issue. > > > > > > Jacques > > > > > > > > > > > > Le 17/08/2016 à 15:17, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit : > > > > > >> I am starting a new thread with a new subject in the dev list to > discuss > > >> the interesting topic about Wiki space cleanup/refactoring that was > > >> started > > >> by Jacques as an off topic (going off-topic is a bad habit that we > > should > > >> try to limit). > > >> > > >> In my opinion we could just have one Wiki space (open to contributors) > > and > > >> we could consolidate there all the content that is valuable. We could > > keep > > >> the existing spaces as an archive (removing all prominent links to > them) > > >> until the new Wiki is completed. > > >> > > >> As regards the separate Wiki space for the PMC, I would wait before > > >> creating it at least until there is a clear evidence that such space > is > > >> really required. > > >> > > >> Jacopo > > >> > > >> > > >> On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 12:51 PM, Jacques Le Roux < > > >> [hidden email]> wrote: > > >> > > >> Sharan, > > >>> > > >>> Sorry to seem again out of subject, but you will see where I'm going > > to. > > >>> > > >>> The question we should ask ourselves, is when content/attachments in > a > > >>> page should be only accessible to the PMC. > > >>> > > >>> For content we have not problems. Only contributors are able to > modify > > >>> pages contents. Anyway this is not a problem because we (I at least) > > >>> monitor all changes in the wiki and if I see a change which should > not > > >>> happen we (I) can still restore a correct version from history. As an > > >>> admin > > >>> I can even restore a deleted page from the space trash. To be safe, > > >>> admins > > >>> should always agree about deleting a page from the space trash, for > > >>> instance to vacuum when necessary. I noticed both these actions are > > >>> extremely rare. > > >>> > > >>> So far contributors are also able to add and delete news, comments > and > > >>> attachments. We don't use news in the wiki, one issue less. Because > > it's > > >>> hard to retrieve comments and attachments, even as an admin (we need > to > > >>> ask > > >>> infra to look into an ASF wide backup), I suggest we remove the > > >>> possibility > > >>> for contributors to delete news, comments and attachments. Then we > are > > >>> safe from all changes and we no longer need a distinction between > open > > >>> and > > >>> closed wiki :) If nobody disagree I'd do that in few days. > > >>> > > >>> BTW while at it I noticed Amit Gadaley had no rights, I gave him the > > >>> needed. > > >>> > > >>> Jacques > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> Le 17/08/2016 à 09:25, Sharan Foga a écrit : > > >>> > > >>> Hi Jacques > > >>>> > > >>>> This is an interesting idea and it might have been good to start a > new > > >>>> thread as it has digressed a little off topic again :-) > > >>>> > > >>>> In theory I agree that we do need to do some tidy up and > consolidating > > >>>> into 2 spaces sounds like it could work well. We just need to see > how > > to > > >>>> merge the data from the existing spaces and also add a good > navigation > > >>>> system so that people can find things easily. > > >>>> > > >>>> Back to original topic – I don't think that we can consolidate all > > the > > >>>> marketing information into a restricted space mainly because I think > > we > > >>>> will need to allow for the ability for any contributor to add new > > papers > > >>>> and presentations. As a first step though – we could remove the > > wiki > > >>>> page and move the data to the project admin space for now and see > how > > >>>> that > > >>>> works. > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> Thanks > > >>>> Sharan > > >>>> > > >>>> On 2016-08-17 07:41 (+0200), Jacques Le Roux < > > >>>> [hidden email]> wrote: > > >>>> > > >>>> Hi Sharan, > > >>>>> > > >>>>> I thought about that, and I believe we should not add a new page > but > > >>>>> rather complete the Material+for+Branding+and+Marketing page by > > using > > >>>>> what's > > >>>>> interesting in the General+Material+for+Branding+and+Marketing > page > > >>>>> and > > >>>>> then drop it. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> To answer Taher's message, I believe we face a mess and this > > remembers > > >>>>> me http://www.howtomakesenseofanymess.com/ Sharan suggested, I > > stopped > > >>>>> at > > >>>>> http://www.howtomakesenseofanymess.com/chapter/1/page/21/ > > >>>>> draw-your-mess/ > > >>>>> > > >>>>> I think the right attitude when facing a mess, is to CUT in it. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> * We need to drop, or at least put a lot of wiki pages in > > archives. > > >>>>> * For that we could create a specific OFBiz archive space, not > > >>>>> linked > > >>>>> from the other spaces. > > >>>>> * I also suggest to have only 2 other spaces, one completely > > open, > > >>>>> where most pages should be. > > >>>>> * And one only accessible to PMC (and committers?) where really > > >>>>> sensible information should be, these last pages should be very > rare > > >>>>> and > > >>>>> only when > > >>>>> really needed. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Then we can improve the content of "Documentation" menu-link from > > >>>>> http://ofbiz.apache.org/ . Notably > > >>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBADMIN/OFBiz+ > > >>>>> Documentation+Index (hint: this is also kinda an answer to Taher) > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Trying to improve navigation before cutting in the mess, will have > a > > >>>>> tendency to fail... What do you think? > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Jacques > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Le 16/08/2016 14:58, Jacques Le Roux a crit : > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Hi Sharan, > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> I suggested at https://cwiki.apache.org/confl > > >>>>>> uence/display/OFBADMIN/Material+for+Branding+and+Marketing? > > >>>>>> focusedCommentId=65865874#comment-65865874 > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> to remove the page below because I tried yesterday to move the > > images > > >>>>>> from the page above to the one below. I wanted to merge the 2 > > pages, a > > >>>>>> reason > > >>>>>> I afterwards renamed the page above. Another reason I afterwards > > >>>>>> renamed the page is because when in Confluence you put special > > >>>>>> characters, > > >>>>>> like > > >>>>>> parenthesis, etc., in the title then you don't get a nice title > for > > >>>>>> the > > >>>>>> page, but a number :/ > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> But it's hard to *move* attachments in bulk in Confluence. You > have > > to > > >>>>>> do it one by one :/ > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> So I tried to download them all and upload them back to the page > > >>>>>> below. > > >>>>>> But the process failed in the middle. You might also notice that > > it's > > >>>>>> hard > > >>>>>> to *remove* attachments in bulk in Confluence. You have to do it > one > > >>>>>> by > > >>>>>> one :/ > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> That's why I suggested to put this page in archive (actually > > deleting > > >>>>>> it lets it in the space's trash > > >>>>>> https://confluence.atlassian.com/doc/delete-or-restore-a-pag > > >>>>>> e-139429.html) and to create a new one. I also tried to watch the > > >>>>>> Powerpoint there (on > > >>>>>> WIndows using the the Powerpoint viewer!) but it failed, so there > is > > >>>>>> nothing to keep there! I suggest to drop it and create a brand new > > >>>>>> page, > > >>>>>> inspired by the page below, for the ideas you rightly suggested. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Thanks > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Jacques > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Le 16/08/2016 11:03, Sharan Foga a crit : > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Hi Everyone > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> We currently have a page in the wiki that was used initially for > > >>>>>>> branding and marketing but has now has a lot of broken links. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/General+ > > >>>>>>> Material+for+Branding+and+Marketing > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> The logo files don't need to be on this page as they are all > > >>>>>>> available > > >>>>>>> elsewhere. Rather than remove it I suggest that it could be > tidied > > >>>>>>> up and > > >>>>>>> that the page focus (and name) could be changed to make it into > one > > >>>>>>> that links to OFBiz white papers, OFBIz presentations, etc. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> I'm not sure if we already have something like this or if it > > covered > > >>>>>>> as part of OFBiz in the news but I think having this type of > > material > > >>>>>>> available could be good for newcomers. What do people think? > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Thanks > > >>>>>>> Sharan > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > |
Re: Refactoring our Wiki spaces
|
|
In reply to this post by Scott Gray-3
I agree with your remark Scott
Nicolas Le 18/08/2016 à 07:28, Scott Gray a écrit : > Easy solution (if possible) would be to disable comments altogether. If > there's a discussion to be had about a page it can go to the dev list or > JIRA without risk of being deleted or creating any conspiracy theories > about censorship. > > Being able to comment directly on a page is handy, but if we're going to go > overboard worrying about comments being deleted/censored then it's better > to just do away with them. > > Regards > Scott > > On 18/08/2016 06:27, "Pierre Smits" <[hidden email]> wrote: > >> You're correct. Not many deletions were done by non privileged >> contributors, and as far as I can tell no non-privileged contributor ever >> deleted the comment of another contributor. >> >> Mostly they were done by privileged contributors on non open pages (in the >> OFBIZADMIN space, meaning PMC Members). While there is version management >> on content, there is no version managment on comments. >> >> With every deletion of a comment (done by anybody else) made by a PMC >> Member a piece of history is gone for ever. And it could be regarded as >> censorship. >> >> Best regards, >> >> >> >> Pierre Smits >> |
Re: Refactoring our Wiki spaces
|
Administrator
|
That seems also a good idea to me
Jacques Le 18/08/2016 à 08:25, Nicolas Malin a écrit : > I agree with your remark Scott > > Nicolas > > Le 18/08/2016 à 07:28, Scott Gray a écrit : >> Easy solution (if possible) would be to disable comments altogether. If >> there's a discussion to be had about a page it can go to the dev list or >> JIRA without risk of being deleted or creating any conspiracy theories >> about censorship. >> >> Being able to comment directly on a page is handy, but if we're going to go >> overboard worrying about comments being deleted/censored then it's better >> to just do away with them. >> >> Regards >> Scott >> >> On 18/08/2016 06:27, "Pierre Smits" <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >>> You're correct. Not many deletions were done by non privileged >>> contributors, and as far as I can tell no non-privileged contributor ever >>> deleted the comment of another contributor. >>> >>> Mostly they were done by privileged contributors on non open pages (in the >>> OFBIZADMIN space, meaning PMC Members). While there is version management >>> on content, there is no version managment on comments. >>> >>> With every deletion of a comment (done by anybody else) made by a PMC >>> Member a piece of history is gone for ever. And it could be regarded as >>> censorship. >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> >>> >>> Pierre Smits >>> > > |
«
Return to OFBiz - Dev
|
1 view|%1 views
| Free forum by Nabble | Edit this page |