Reviewing the links of the main ofbiz.org site

[Jacopo Cappellato]

Hi all,

what about simplifying the main page of the OFBiz website:

http://incubator.apache.org/ofbiz/

?

I've started reviewing the links in the left column (that for your
convenience I've copied at the bottom of this message), and I think that
some of them are unnecessary and can be removed or at least moved to a
new web page named "Misc Resources" (or something like this).

In detail:

1) the section "Cool Sites" could be removed

2) the sections "Apache OFBiz Communities" and "Apache OFBiz Related
Blogs" could be moved to the new "Resources" page

3) in the "What is OFBiz?" section, the links "Brochures", "Conference
Videos" and "Framework Intro Videos" should be moved to the
http://incubator.apache.org/ofbiz/documents.html page

4) in the "Download OFBiz" section:
4a) the links "Getting And Using OFBiz", "Production Setup Guide",
should be moved to the http://incubator.apache.org/ofbiz/documents.html page
4b) the "Documentation" link can be removed
4c) the "Release Notes" link can be removed (or hidden) because it the
referenced document is too old
4d) the "Download Releases" link should be hidden or should point to the
new (temp) folder where the RC1 is stored: I think that the reference to
the OLD sourceforge release can be very confusing for new users

5) in the "Resources & Tools" section:
5a) add a new link to the new "Misc Resources" page (that needs to be
created)
5b) move the "Old Mailing Lists", "The Old Java.net Site",
"The Old SourceForge.net Site", "Old Wiki" links to the new "Misc
Resources" page
5c) remove the "Old Jira (Issue Tracker)" link
5d) all the following links can be moved (they are already in the
"documentation" page): "Documentation (Confluence)", "Production Setup
Guide", "Documentation" (maybe we could leave just this), "Conference
Videos"

Thanks for your time,

Jacopo


===================================================
***What is OFBiz?***

General Overview
Is OFBiz for Me?
Feature List
Features Coming Soon
Brochures
Documentation
Conference Videos
Framework Intro Videos

***Demo Site***

Extended Demo by Open Travel System
eCommerce Demo
Management Console
Hotel Frontend
Hotel Backend

***Download OFBiz***

Getting And Using OFBiz (PDF)
Production Setup Guide
Source Access (Recommended)
Release Notes
Download Releases
Weekly Builds
Documentation
Copyright & License

***Resources & Tools***

Apache Incubator Status
dev Mailing List
user Mailing List
commits Mailing List
Old Mailing Lists
Apache OFBiz - Jira (Issue Tracker)
Old Jira (Issue Tracker)
SVN (Source Repository)
Documentation (Confluence)
Docs Site: Wiki
Old Wiki
Production Setup Guide
Documentation
Conference Videos
The Old Java.net Site
The Old SourceForge.net Site

***Apache OFBiz Related Blogs***

OFBiz and Open Source by David E. Jones
What's New in OFBiz by Si Chen

***Apache OFBiz Communities***

Locales
   United Kingdom
   Germany
   France
   Netherlands
   China
Industries
   Government
   Travel

***Cool Sites***

Java.Net
SourceForge
FreshMeat
NewsForge
Slashdot
JavaLobby
TheServerSide

[David E Jones-2]

I very much agree that the ofbiz.org web site could use some  
improvement, although I rather think that at this point it needs more  
of a planned re-design rather than iterative improvements.

First maybe some background of the current site:

1. the structure of the site, except for reorganizing and adding some  
color to the home page about a year and a half ago (looks like April  
2005), has not changed in a few years and is basically the original  
structure of the site

2. the intent of the web site from the beginning of the project has  
been to serve the needs of developers and hopefully attract  
contributors, ie people that are detail oriented and have the skills  
and/or interest necessary to be able, and likely to, contribute to  
the project in a meaningful way

3. the project is now reaching a point where we do want to attract  
more end-users that will likely not contribute directly to the  
project, or even interact directly with it, but that are certainly  
still extremely important to the long term success and stability of  
the project

4. the web site has been created and maintained by a single person  
(yours truly and sincerely) with little feedback except for  
occasional small mistakes or needs for change or contributions like  
testimonials and case studies (which we could use a LOT more of); the  
person who has created and is maintaining the site has done quite a  
bit of research on web site usability including reviewing various  
case studies (the current "big page" design for the home page was  
based on a case study of amazon.com) and studied human-computer  
interaction in his one semester of graduate school, and so he knows  
very well that one of the big problems with the current site is that  
it has had no usability studies, and not enough feedback from actual  
users to substitute for that; he is also not a graphic designer and  
has demonstrated this by creating the current layout and color scheme  
of the ofbiz site

Because of this history of the site and the changing direction of the  
project, my opinion is that instead of starting with what we've got  
and talking about moving things around, perhaps we should start with  
more of a blank slate and talk about what we'd like the site to look  
like, and then after something is in place there review the current  
stuff and decide where everything should go (including a trash bin  
option...).

With iterative changes at this point, like the ones you've proposed  
which are individually good, I think it could hide resources or make  
the site more difficult to navigate for a while, ie until it finally  
settles down, and during that period it could be even worse than it  
is now in terms of usability, find-ability, et cetera.

-David


On Sep 15, 2006, at 4:31 AM, Jacopo Cappellato wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> what about simplifying the main page of the OFBiz website:
>
> http://incubator.apache.org/ofbiz/
>
> ?
>
> I've started reviewing the links in the left column (that for your  
> convenience I've copied at the bottom of this message), and I think  
> that some of them are unnecessary and can be removed or at least  
> moved to a new web page named "Misc Resources" (or something like  
> this).
>
> In detail:
>
> 1) the section "Cool Sites" could be removed
>
> 2) the sections "Apache OFBiz Communities" and "Apache OFBiz  
> Related Blogs" could be moved to the new "Resources" page
>
> 3) in the "What is OFBiz?" section, the links "Brochures",  
> "Conference Videos" and "Framework Intro Videos" should be moved to  
> the http://incubator.apache.org/ofbiz/documents.html page
>
> 4) in the "Download OFBiz" section:
> 4a) the links "Getting And Using OFBiz", "Production Setup Guide",  
> should be moved to the http://incubator.apache.org/ofbiz/ 
> documents.html page
> 4b) the "Documentation" link can be removed
> 4c) the "Release Notes" link can be removed (or hidden) because it  
> the referenced document is too old
> 4d) the "Download Releases" link should be hidden or should point  
> to the new (temp) folder where the RC1 is stored: I think that the  
> reference to the OLD sourceforge release can be very confusing for  
> new users
>
> 5) in the "Resources & Tools" section:
> 5a) add a new link to the new "Misc Resources" page (that needs to  
> be created)
> 5b) move the "Old Mailing Lists", "The Old Java.net Site",
> "The Old SourceForge.net Site", "Old Wiki" links to the new "Misc  
> Resources" page
> 5c) remove the "Old Jira (Issue Tracker)" link
> 5d) all the following links can be moved (they are already in the  
> "documentation" page): "Documentation (Confluence)", "Production  
> Setup Guide", "Documentation" (maybe we could leave just this),  
> "Conference Videos"
>
> Thanks for your time,
>
> Jacopo
>
>
> ===================================================
> ***What is OFBiz?***
>
> General Overview
> Is OFBiz for Me?
> Feature List
> Features Coming Soon
> Brochures
> Documentation
> Conference Videos
> Framework Intro Videos
>
> ***Demo Site***
>
> Extended Demo by Open Travel System
> eCommerce Demo
> Management Console
> Hotel Frontend
> Hotel Backend
>
> ***Download OFBiz***
>
> Getting And Using OFBiz (PDF)
> Production Setup Guide
> Source Access (Recommended)
> Release Notes
> Download Releases
> Weekly Builds
> Documentation
> Copyright & License
>
> ***Resources & Tools***
>
> Apache Incubator Status
> dev Mailing List
> user Mailing List
> commits Mailing List
> Old Mailing Lists
> Apache OFBiz - Jira (Issue Tracker)
> Old Jira (Issue Tracker)
> SVN (Source Repository)
> Documentation (Confluence)
> Docs Site: Wiki
> Old Wiki
> Production Setup Guide
> Documentation
> Conference Videos
> The Old Java.net Site
> The Old SourceForge.net Site
>
> ***Apache OFBiz Related Blogs***
>
> OFBiz and Open Source by David E. Jones
> What's New in OFBiz by Si Chen
>
> ***Apache OFBiz Communities***
>
> Locales
>   United Kingdom
>   Germany
>   France
>   Netherlands
>   China
> Industries
>   Government
>   Travel
>
> ***Cool Sites***
>
> Java.Net
> SourceForge
> FreshMeat
> NewsForge
> Slashdot
> JavaLobby
> TheServerSide

[Tim Ruppert]

I was just thinking about this today - and wanted to point everyone in
the direction of a mighty empty Wiki page that we started a while back
to facilitate this discussion.

Currently I can't get to the Wiki at docs.ofbiz.org - as I'm sure that
Confluence is probably hung up.  Could someone give it a kick?

Anyways, when it's back up - there is a page already started with some
interesting questions (offered up by Si Chen a while back) that I think
that we should answer in order to understand where we're headed.

The audience will be such a large driving force in the general
reorganization of this information - that we need to understand who
we're talking to first.  Just my two cents.

Cheers,
Tim

--
Tim Ruppert
HotWax Media
http://www.hotwaxmedia.com

o:801.649.6594
f:801.649.6595

David E Jones wrote:

>
> I very much agree that the ofbiz.org web site could use some
> improvement, although I rather think that at this point it needs more
> of a planned re-design rather than iterative improvements.
>
> First maybe some background of the current site:
>
> 1. the structure of the site, except for reorganizing and adding some
> color to the home page about a year and a half ago (looks like April
> 2005), has not changed in a few years and is basically the original
> structure of the site
>
> 2. the intent of the web site from the beginning of the project has
> been to serve the needs of developers and hopefully attract
> contributors, ie people that are detail oriented and have the skills
> and/or interest necessary to be able, and likely to, contribute to the
> project in a meaningful way
>
> 3. the project is now reaching a point where we do want to attract
> more end-users that will likely not contribute directly to the
> project, or even interact directly with it, but that are certainly
> still extremely important to the long term success and stability of
> the project
>
> 4. the web site has been created and maintained by a single person
> (yours truly and sincerely) with little feedback except for occasional
> small mistakes or needs for change or contributions like testimonials
> and case studies (which we could use a LOT more of); the person who
> has created and is maintaining the site has done quite a bit of
> research on web site usability including reviewing various case
> studies (the current "big page" design for the home page was based on
> a case study of amazon.com) and studied human-computer interaction in
> his one semester of graduate school, and so he knows very well that
> one of the big problems with the current site is that it has had no
> usability studies, and not enough feedback from actual users to
> substitute for that; he is also not a graphic designer and has
> demonstrated this by creating the current layout and color scheme of
> the ofbiz site
>
> Because of this history of the site and the changing direction of the
> project, my opinion is that instead of starting with what we've got
> and talking about moving things around, perhaps we should start with
> more of a blank slate and talk about what we'd like the site to look
> like, and then after something is in place there review the current
> stuff and decide where everything should go (including a trash bin
> option...).
>
> With iterative changes at this point, like the ones you've proposed
> which are individually good, I think it could hide resources or make
> the site more difficult to navigate for a while, ie until it finally
> settles down, and during that period it could be even worse than it is
> now in terms of usability, find-ability, et cetera.
>
> -David
>
>
> On Sep 15, 2006, at 4:31 AM, Jacopo Cappellato wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> what about simplifying the main page of the OFBiz website:
>>
>> http://incubator.apache.org/ofbiz/
>>
>> ?
>>
>> I've started reviewing the links in the left column (that for your
>> convenience I've copied at the bottom of this message), and I think
>> that some of them are unnecessary and can be removed or at least
>> moved to a new web page named "Misc Resources" (or something like this).
>>
>> In detail:
>>
>> 1) the section "Cool Sites" could be removed
>>
>> 2) the sections "Apache OFBiz Communities" and "Apache OFBiz Related
>> Blogs" could be moved to the new "Resources" page
>>
>> 3) in the "What is OFBiz?" section, the links "Brochures",
>> "Conference Videos" and "Framework Intro Videos" should be moved to
>> the http://incubator.apache.org/ofbiz/documents.html page
>>
>> 4) in the "Download OFBiz" section:
>> 4a) the links "Getting And Using OFBiz", "Production Setup Guide",
>> should be moved to the
>> http://incubator.apache.org/ofbiz/documents.html page
>> 4b) the "Documentation" link can be removed
>> 4c) the "Release Notes" link can be removed (or hidden) because it
>> the referenced document is too old
>> 4d) the "Download Releases" link should be hidden or should point to
>> the new (temp) folder where the RC1 is stored: I think that the
>> reference to the OLD sourceforge release can be very confusing for
>> new users
>>
>> 5) in the "Resources & Tools" section:
>> 5a) add a new link to the new "Misc Resources" page (that needs to be
>> created)
>> 5b) move the "Old Mailing Lists", "The Old Java.net Site",
>> "The Old SourceForge.net Site", "Old Wiki" links to the new "Misc
>> Resources" page
>> 5c) remove the "Old Jira (Issue Tracker)" link
>> 5d) all the following links can be moved (they are already in the
>> "documentation" page): "Documentation (Confluence)", "Production
>> Setup Guide", "Documentation" (maybe we could leave just this),
>> "Conference Videos"
>>
>> Thanks for your time,
>>
>> Jacopo
>>
>>
>> ===================================================
>> ***What is OFBiz?***
>>
>> General Overview
>> Is OFBiz for Me?
>> Feature List
>> Features Coming Soon
>> Brochures
>> Documentation
>> Conference Videos
>> Framework Intro Videos
>>
>> ***Demo Site***
>>
>> Extended Demo by Open Travel System
>> eCommerce Demo
>> Management Console
>> Hotel Frontend
>> Hotel Backend
>>
>> ***Download OFBiz***
>>
>> Getting And Using OFBiz (PDF)
>> Production Setup Guide
>> Source Access (Recommended)
>> Release Notes
>> Download Releases
>> Weekly Builds
>> Documentation
>> Copyright & License
>>
>> ***Resources & Tools***
>>
>> Apache Incubator Status
>> dev Mailing List
>> user Mailing List
>> commits Mailing List
>> Old Mailing Lists
>> Apache OFBiz - Jira (Issue Tracker)
>> Old Jira (Issue Tracker)
>> SVN (Source Repository)
>> Documentation (Confluence)
>> Docs Site: Wiki
>> Old Wiki
>> Production Setup Guide
>> Documentation
>> Conference Videos
>> The Old Java.net Site
>> The Old SourceForge.net Site
>>
>> ***Apache OFBiz Related Blogs***
>>
>> OFBiz and Open Source by David E. Jones
>> What's New in OFBiz by Si Chen
>>
>> ***Apache OFBiz Communities***
>>
>> Locales
>>   United Kingdom
>>   Germany
>>   France
>>   Netherlands
>>   China
>> Industries
>>   Government
>>   Travel
>>
>> ***Cool Sites***
>>
>> Java.Net
>> SourceForge
>> FreshMeat
>> NewsForge
>> Slashdot
>> JavaLobby
>> TheServerSide

[Tim Ruppert]

My bad - it's up, but running slowly.

http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBIZ/OFBiz.org+New+Site+Plan

Cheers,
Tim

--
Tim Ruppert
HotWax Media
http://www.hotwaxmedia.com

o:801.649.6594
f:801.649.6595



Tim Ruppert wrote:

> I was just thinking about this today - and wanted to point everyone in
> the direction of a mighty empty Wiki page that we started a while back
> to facilitate this discussion.
> Currently I can't get to the Wiki at docs.ofbiz.org - as I'm sure that
> Confluence is probably hung up.  Could someone give it a kick?
>
> Anyways, when it's back up - there is a page already started with some
> interesting questions (offered up by Si Chen a while back) that I
> think that we should answer in order to understand where we're headed.
>
> The audience will be such a large driving force in the general
> reorganization of this information - that we need to understand who
> we're talking to first.  Just my two cents.
>
> Cheers,
> Tim
>
> --
> Tim Ruppert
> HotWax Media
> http://www.hotwaxmedia.com
>
> o:801.649.6594
> f:801.649.6595
>
> David E Jones wrote:
>>
>> I very much agree that the ofbiz.org web site could use some
>> improvement, although I rather think that at this point it needs more
>> of a planned re-design rather than iterative improvements.
>>
>> First maybe some background of the current site:
>>
>> 1. the structure of the site, except for reorganizing and adding some
>> color to the home page about a year and a half ago (looks like April
>> 2005), has not changed in a few years and is basically the original
>> structure of the site
>>
>> 2. the intent of the web site from the beginning of the project has
>> been to serve the needs of developers and hopefully attract
>> contributors, ie people that are detail oriented and have the skills
>> and/or interest necessary to be able, and likely to, contribute to
>> the project in a meaningful way
>>
>> 3. the project is now reaching a point where we do want to attract
>> more end-users that will likely not contribute directly to the
>> project, or even interact directly with it, but that are certainly
>> still extremely important to the long term success and stability of
>> the project
>>
>> 4. the web site has been created and maintained by a single person
>> (yours truly and sincerely) with little feedback except for
>> occasional small mistakes or needs for change or contributions like
>> testimonials and case studies (which we could use a LOT more of); the
>> person who has created and is maintaining the site has done quite a
>> bit of research on web site usability including reviewing various
>> case studies (the current "big page" design for the home page was
>> based on a case study of amazon.com) and studied human-computer
>> interaction in his one semester of graduate school, and so he knows
>> very well that one of the big problems with the current site is that
>> it has had no usability studies, and not enough feedback from actual
>> users to substitute for that; he is also not a graphic designer and
>> has demonstrated this by creating the current layout and color scheme
>> of the ofbiz site
>>
>> Because of this history of the site and the changing direction of the
>> project, my opinion is that instead of starting with what we've got
>> and talking about moving things around, perhaps we should start with
>> more of a blank slate and talk about what we'd like the site to look
>> like, and then after something is in place there review the current
>> stuff and decide where everything should go (including a trash bin
>> option...).
>>
>> With iterative changes at this point, like the ones you've proposed
>> which are individually good, I think it could hide resources or make
>> the site more difficult to navigate for a while, ie until it finally
>> settles down, and during that period it could be even worse than it
>> is now in terms of usability, find-ability, et cetera.
>>
>> -David
>>
>>
>> On Sep 15, 2006, at 4:31 AM, Jacopo Cappellato wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> what about simplifying the main page of the OFBiz website:
>>>
>>> http://incubator.apache.org/ofbiz/
>>>
>>> ?
>>>
>>> I've started reviewing the links in the left column (that for your
>>> convenience I've copied at the bottom of this message), and I think
>>> that some of them are unnecessary and can be removed or at least
>>> moved to a new web page named "Misc Resources" (or something like
>>> this).
>>>
>>> In detail:
>>>
>>> 1) the section "Cool Sites" could be removed
>>>
>>> 2) the sections "Apache OFBiz Communities" and "Apache OFBiz Related
>>> Blogs" could be moved to the new "Resources" page
>>>
>>> 3) in the "What is OFBiz?" section, the links "Brochures",
>>> "Conference Videos" and "Framework Intro Videos" should be moved to
>>> the http://incubator.apache.org/ofbiz/documents.html page
>>>
>>> 4) in the "Download OFBiz" section:
>>> 4a) the links "Getting And Using OFBiz", "Production Setup Guide",
>>> should be moved to the
>>> http://incubator.apache.org/ofbiz/documents.html page
>>> 4b) the "Documentation" link can be removed
>>> 4c) the "Release Notes" link can be removed (or hidden) because it
>>> the referenced document is too old
>>> 4d) the "Download Releases" link should be hidden or should point to
>>> the new (temp) folder where the RC1 is stored: I think that the
>>> reference to the OLD sourceforge release can be very confusing for
>>> new users
>>>
>>> 5) in the "Resources & Tools" section:
>>> 5a) add a new link to the new "Misc Resources" page (that needs to
>>> be created)
>>> 5b) move the "Old Mailing Lists", "The Old Java.net Site",
>>> "The Old SourceForge.net Site", "Old Wiki" links to the new "Misc
>>> Resources" page
>>> 5c) remove the "Old Jira (Issue Tracker)" link
>>> 5d) all the following links can be moved (they are already in the
>>> "documentation" page): "Documentation (Confluence)", "Production
>>> Setup Guide", "Documentation" (maybe we could leave just this),
>>> "Conference Videos"
>>>
>>> Thanks for your time,
>>>
>>> Jacopo
>>>
>>>
>>> ===================================================
>>> ***What is OFBiz?***
>>>
>>> General Overview
>>> Is OFBiz for Me?
>>> Feature List
>>> Features Coming Soon
>>> Brochures
>>> Documentation
>>> Conference Videos
>>> Framework Intro Videos
>>>
>>> ***Demo Site***
>>>
>>> Extended Demo by Open Travel System
>>> eCommerce Demo
>>> Management Console
>>> Hotel Frontend
>>> Hotel Backend
>>>
>>> ***Download OFBiz***
>>>
>>> Getting And Using OFBiz (PDF)
>>> Production Setup Guide
>>> Source Access (Recommended)
>>> Release Notes
>>> Download Releases
>>> Weekly Builds
>>> Documentation
>>> Copyright & License
>>>
>>> ***Resources & Tools***
>>>
>>> Apache Incubator Status
>>> dev Mailing List
>>> user Mailing List
>>> commits Mailing List
>>> Old Mailing Lists
>>> Apache OFBiz - Jira (Issue Tracker)
>>> Old Jira (Issue Tracker)
>>> SVN (Source Repository)
>>> Documentation (Confluence)
>>> Docs Site: Wiki
>>> Old Wiki
>>> Production Setup Guide
>>> Documentation
>>> Conference Videos
>>> The Old Java.net Site
>>> The Old SourceForge.net Site
>>>
>>> ***Apache OFBiz Related Blogs***
>>>
>>> OFBiz and Open Source by David E. Jones
>>> What's New in OFBiz by Si Chen
>>>
>>> ***Apache OFBiz Communities***
>>>
>>> Locales
>>>   United Kingdom
>>>   Germany
>>>   France
>>>   Netherlands
>>>   China
>>> Industries
>>>   Government
>>>   Travel
>>>
>>> ***Cool Sites***
>>>
>>> Java.Net
>>> SourceForge
>>> FreshMeat
>>> NewsForge
>>> Slashdot
>>> JavaLobby
>>> TheServerSide
>

[Jacopo Cappellato]

David,

I see what you mean and for me it's fine.
By the way, my comments were not intended to be a criticism to the
current site (that, all in all, I like) but things that I have noticed
because I use those links everyday (to go to new/old Jira etc...) and in
the last few months (with the migration to the Incubator etc...) we had
to add a lot of new ones.
Yes, all in all I like the current site, even if I concede I'm not the
best one who could judge the look&feel of a site: this is one of the
things that I tend to ignore when I visit a site and I'm also a bit
colour-blind!

Jacopo


David E Jones wrote:

>
> I very much agree that the ofbiz.org web site could use some
> improvement, although I rather think that at this point it needs more of
> a planned re-design rather than iterative improvements.
>
> First maybe some background of the current site:
>
> 1. the structure of the site, except for reorganizing and adding some
> color to the home page about a year and a half ago (looks like April
> 2005), has not changed in a few years and is basically the original
> structure of the site
>
> 2. the intent of the web site from the beginning of the project has been
> to serve the needs of developers and hopefully attract contributors, ie
> people that are detail oriented and have the skills and/or interest
> necessary to be able, and likely to, contribute to the project in a
> meaningful way
>
> 3. the project is now reaching a point where we do want to attract more
> end-users that will likely not contribute directly to the project, or
> even interact directly with it, but that are certainly still extremely
> important to the long term success and stability of the project
>
> 4. the web site has been created and maintained by a single person
> (yours truly and sincerely) with little feedback except for occasional
> small mistakes or needs for change or contributions like testimonials
> and case studies (which we could use a LOT more of); the person who has
> created and is maintaining the site has done quite a bit of research on
> web site usability including reviewing various case studies (the current
> "big page" design for the home page was based on a case study of
> amazon.com) and studied human-computer interaction in his one semester
> of graduate school, and so he knows very well that one of the big
> problems with the current site is that it has had no usability studies,
> and not enough feedback from actual users to substitute for that; he is
> also not a graphic designer and has demonstrated this by creating the
> current layout and color scheme of the ofbiz site
>
> Because of this history of the site and the changing direction of the
> project, my opinion is that instead of starting with what we've got and
> talking about moving things around, perhaps we should start with more of
> a blank slate and talk about what we'd like the site to look like, and
> then after something is in place there review the current stuff and
> decide where everything should go (including a trash bin option...).
>
> With iterative changes at this point, like the ones you've proposed
> which are individually good, I think it could hide resources or make the
> site more difficult to navigate for a while, ie until it finally settles
> down, and during that period it could be even worse than it is now in
> terms of usability, find-ability, et cetera.
>
> -David
>
>
> On Sep 15, 2006, at 4:31 AM, Jacopo Cappellato wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> what about simplifying the main page of the OFBiz website:
>>
>> http://incubator.apache.org/ofbiz/
>>
>> ?
>>
>> I've started reviewing the links in the left column (that for your
>> convenience I've copied at the bottom of this message), and I think
>> that some of them are unnecessary and can be removed or at least moved
>> to a new web page named "Misc Resources" (or something like this).
>>
>> In detail:
>>
>> 1) the section "Cool Sites" could be removed
>>
>> 2) the sections "Apache OFBiz Communities" and "Apache OFBiz Related
>> Blogs" could be moved to the new "Resources" page
>>
>> 3) in the "What is OFBiz?" section, the links "Brochures", "Conference
>> Videos" and "Framework Intro Videos" should be moved to the
>> http://incubator.apache.org/ofbiz/documents.html page
>>
>> 4) in the "Download OFBiz" section:
>> 4a) the links "Getting And Using OFBiz", "Production Setup Guide",
>> should be moved to the
>> http://incubator.apache.org/ofbiz/documents.html page
>> 4b) the "Documentation" link can be removed
>> 4c) the "Release Notes" link can be removed (or hidden) because it the
>> referenced document is too old
>> 4d) the "Download Releases" link should be hidden or should point to
>> the new (temp) folder where the RC1 is stored: I think that the
>> reference to the OLD sourceforge release can be very confusing for new
>> users
>>
>> 5) in the "Resources & Tools" section:
>> 5a) add a new link to the new "Misc Resources" page (that needs to be
>> created)
>> 5b) move the "Old Mailing Lists", "The Old Java.net Site",
>> "The Old SourceForge.net Site", "Old Wiki" links to the new "Misc
>> Resources" page
>> 5c) remove the "Old Jira (Issue Tracker)" link
>> 5d) all the following links can be moved (they are already in the
>> "documentation" page): "Documentation (Confluence)", "Production Setup
>> Guide", "Documentation" (maybe we could leave just this), "Conference
>> Videos"
>>
>> Thanks for your time,
>>
>> Jacopo
>>
>>
>> ===================================================
>> ***What is OFBiz?***
>>
>> General Overview
>> Is OFBiz for Me?
>> Feature List
>> Features Coming Soon
>> Brochures
>> Documentation
>> Conference Videos
>> Framework Intro Videos
>>
>> ***Demo Site***
>>
>> Extended Demo by Open Travel System
>> eCommerce Demo
>> Management Console
>> Hotel Frontend
>> Hotel Backend
>>
>> ***Download OFBiz***
>>
>> Getting And Using OFBiz (PDF)
>> Production Setup Guide
>> Source Access (Recommended)
>> Release Notes
>> Download Releases
>> Weekly Builds
>> Documentation
>> Copyright & License
>>
>> ***Resources & Tools***
>>
>> Apache Incubator Status
>> dev Mailing List
>> user Mailing List
>> commits Mailing List
>> Old Mailing Lists
>> Apache OFBiz - Jira (Issue Tracker)
>> Old Jira (Issue Tracker)
>> SVN (Source Repository)
>> Documentation (Confluence)
>> Docs Site: Wiki
>> Old Wiki
>> Production Setup Guide
>> Documentation
>> Conference Videos
>> The Old Java.net Site
>> The Old SourceForge.net Site
>>
>> ***Apache OFBiz Related Blogs***
>>
>> OFBiz and Open Source by David E. Jones
>> What's New in OFBiz by Si Chen
>>
>> ***Apache OFBiz Communities***
>>
>> Locales
>>   United Kingdom
>>   Germany
>>   France
>>   Netherlands
>>   China
>> Industries
>>   Government
>>   Travel
>>
>> ***Cool Sites***
>>
>> Java.Net
>> SourceForge
>> FreshMeat
>> NewsForge
>> Slashdot
>> JavaLobby
>> TheServerSide

[David E Jones-2]

Please don't worry about the criticism possibility. This sort of  
feedback and interest in the site is just what we need to get some  
improvement going!

I guess in general I'd just like to see bigger changes to really make  
a good site.

-David


On Sep 15, 2006, at 11:48 PM, Jacopo Cappellato wrote:

> David,
>
> I see what you mean and for me it's fine.
> By the way, my comments were not intended to be a criticism to the  
> current site (that, all in all, I like) but things that I have  
> noticed because I use those links everyday (to go to new/old Jira  
> etc...) and in the last few months (with the migration to the  
> Incubator etc...) we had to add a lot of new ones.
> Yes, all in all I like the current site, even if I concede I'm not  
> the best one who could judge the look&feel of a site: this is one  
> of the things that I tend to ignore when I visit a site and I'm  
> also a bit colour-blind!
>
> Jacopo
>
>
> David E Jones wrote:
>> I very much agree that the ofbiz.org web site could use some  
>> improvement, although I rather think that at this point it needs  
>> more of a planned re-design rather than iterative improvements.
>> First maybe some background of the current site:
>> 1. the structure of the site, except for reorganizing and adding  
>> some color to the home page about a year and a half ago (looks  
>> like April 2005), has not changed in a few years and is basically  
>> the original structure of the site
>> 2. the intent of the web site from the beginning of the project  
>> has been to serve the needs of developers and hopefully attract  
>> contributors, ie people that are detail oriented and have the  
>> skills and/or interest necessary to be able, and likely to,  
>> contribute to the project in a meaningful way
>> 3. the project is now reaching a point where we do want to attract  
>> more end-users that will likely not contribute directly to the  
>> project, or even interact directly with it, but that are certainly  
>> still extremely important to the long term success and stability  
>> of the project
>> 4. the web site has been created and maintained by a single person  
>> (yours truly and sincerely) with little feedback except for  
>> occasional small mistakes or needs for change or contributions  
>> like testimonials and case studies (which we could use a LOT more  
>> of); the person who has created and is maintaining the site has  
>> done quite a bit of research on web site usability including  
>> reviewing various case studies (the current "big page" design for  
>> the home page was based on a case study of amazon.com) and studied  
>> human-computer interaction in his one semester of graduate school,  
>> and so he knows very well that one of the big problems with the  
>> current site is that it has had no usability studies, and not  
>> enough feedback from actual users to substitute for that; he is  
>> also not a graphic designer and has demonstrated this by creating  
>> the current layout and color scheme of the ofbiz site
>> Because of this history of the site and the changing direction of  
>> the project, my opinion is that instead of starting with what  
>> we've got and talking about moving things around, perhaps we  
>> should start with more of a blank slate and talk about what we'd  
>> like the site to look like, and then after something is in place  
>> there review the current stuff and decide where everything should  
>> go (including a trash bin option...).
>> With iterative changes at this point, like the ones you've  
>> proposed which are individually good, I think it could hide  
>> resources or make the site more difficult to navigate for a while,  
>> ie until it finally settles down, and during that period it could  
>> be even worse than it is now in terms of usability, find-ability,  
>> et cetera.
>> -David
>> On Sep 15, 2006, at 4:31 AM, Jacopo Cappellato wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> what about simplifying the main page of the OFBiz website:
>>>
>>> http://incubator.apache.org/ofbiz/
>>>
>>> ?
>>>
>>> I've started reviewing the links in the left column (that for  
>>> your convenience I've copied at the bottom of this message), and  
>>> I think that some of them are unnecessary and can be removed or  
>>> at least moved to a new web page named "Misc Resources" (or  
>>> something like this).
>>>
>>> In detail:
>>>
>>> 1) the section "Cool Sites" could be removed
>>>
>>> 2) the sections "Apache OFBiz Communities" and "Apache OFBiz  
>>> Related Blogs" could be moved to the new "Resources" page
>>>
>>> 3) in the "What is OFBiz?" section, the links "Brochures",  
>>> "Conference Videos" and "Framework Intro Videos" should be moved  
>>> to the http://incubator.apache.org/ofbiz/documents.html page
>>>
>>> 4) in the "Download OFBiz" section:
>>> 4a) the links "Getting And Using OFBiz", "Production Setup  
>>> Guide", should be moved to the http://incubator.apache.org/ofbiz/ 
>>> documents.html page
>>> 4b) the "Documentation" link can be removed
>>> 4c) the "Release Notes" link can be removed (or hidden) because  
>>> it the referenced document is too old
>>> 4d) the "Download Releases" link should be hidden or should point  
>>> to the new (temp) folder where the RC1 is stored: I think that  
>>> the reference to the OLD sourceforge release can be very  
>>> confusing for new users
>>>
>>> 5) in the "Resources & Tools" section:
>>> 5a) add a new link to the new "Misc Resources" page (that needs  
>>> to be created)
>>> 5b) move the "Old Mailing Lists", "The Old Java.net Site",
>>> "The Old SourceForge.net Site", "Old Wiki" links to the new "Misc  
>>> Resources" page
>>> 5c) remove the "Old Jira (Issue Tracker)" link
>>> 5d) all the following links can be moved (they are already in the  
>>> "documentation" page): "Documentation (Confluence)", "Production  
>>> Setup Guide", "Documentation" (maybe we could leave just this),  
>>> "Conference Videos"
>>>
>>> Thanks for your time,
>>>
>>> Jacopo
>>>
>>>
>>> ===================================================
>>> ***What is OFBiz?***
>>>
>>> General Overview
>>> Is OFBiz for Me?
>>> Feature List
>>> Features Coming Soon
>>> Brochures
>>> Documentation
>>> Conference Videos
>>> Framework Intro Videos
>>>
>>> ***Demo Site***
>>>
>>> Extended Demo by Open Travel System
>>> eCommerce Demo
>>> Management Console
>>> Hotel Frontend
>>> Hotel Backend
>>>
>>> ***Download OFBiz***
>>>
>>> Getting And Using OFBiz (PDF)
>>> Production Setup Guide
>>> Source Access (Recommended)
>>> Release Notes
>>> Download Releases
>>> Weekly Builds
>>> Documentation
>>> Copyright & License
>>>
>>> ***Resources & Tools***
>>>
>>> Apache Incubator Status
>>> dev Mailing List
>>> user Mailing List
>>> commits Mailing List
>>> Old Mailing Lists
>>> Apache OFBiz - Jira (Issue Tracker)
>>> Old Jira (Issue Tracker)
>>> SVN (Source Repository)
>>> Documentation (Confluence)
>>> Docs Site: Wiki
>>> Old Wiki
>>> Production Setup Guide
>>> Documentation
>>> Conference Videos
>>> The Old Java.net Site
>>> The Old SourceForge.net Site
>>>
>>> ***Apache OFBiz Related Blogs***
>>>
>>> OFBiz and Open Source by David E. Jones
>>> What's New in OFBiz by Si Chen
>>>
>>> ***Apache OFBiz Communities***
>>>
>>> Locales
>>>   United Kingdom
>>>   Germany
>>>   France
>>>   Netherlands
>>>   China
>>> Industries
>>>   Government
>>>   Travel
>>>
>>> ***Cool Sites***
>>>
>>> Java.Net
>>> SourceForge
>>> FreshMeat
>>> NewsForge
>>> Slashdot
>>> JavaLobby
>>> TheServerSide
>

[David E Jones-2]

This should improve once we drop the jira instance on that server  
(we'll probably give it another couple of days to settle first). That  
box is way overloaded in terms of memory right now.

BTW, it looks like in the fairly near future we'll get a jira  
instance up on another server for reference purposes and what not  
(not a major box or internet line, just a server I'll be putting up  
in a few weeks in my office).

-David


On Sep 15, 2006, at 11:46 PM, Tim Ruppert wrote:

> My bad - it's up, but running slowly.
>
> http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBIZ/OFBiz.org+New+Site+Plan
>
> Cheers,
> Tim
>
> --
> Tim Ruppert
> HotWax Media
> http://www.hotwaxmedia.com
>
> o:801.649.6594
> f:801.649.6595
>
>
>
> Tim Ruppert wrote:
>> I was just thinking about this today - and wanted to point  
>> everyone in the direction of a mighty empty Wiki page that we  
>> started a while back to facilitate this discussion.
>> Currently I can't get to the Wiki at docs.ofbiz.org - as I'm sure  
>> that Confluence is probably hung up.  Could someone give it a kick?
>>
>> Anyways, when it's back up - there is a page already started with  
>> some interesting questions (offered up by Si Chen a while back)  
>> that I think that we should answer in order to understand where  
>> we're headed.
>>
>> The audience will be such a large driving force in the general  
>> reorganization of this information - that we need to understand  
>> who we're talking to first.  Just my two cents.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Tim
>>
>> --
>> Tim Ruppert
>> HotWax Media
>> http://www.hotwaxmedia.com
>>
>> o:801.649.6594
>> f:801.649.6595
>>
>> David E Jones wrote:
>>>
>>> I very much agree that the ofbiz.org web site could use some  
>>> improvement, although I rather think that at this point it needs  
>>> more of a planned re-design rather than iterative improvements.
>>>
>>> First maybe some background of the current site:
>>>
>>> 1. the structure of the site, except for reorganizing and adding  
>>> some color to the home page about a year and a half ago (looks  
>>> like April 2005), has not changed in a few years and is basically  
>>> the original structure of the site
>>>
>>> 2. the intent of the web site from the beginning of the project  
>>> has been to serve the needs of developers and hopefully attract  
>>> contributors, ie people that are detail oriented and have the  
>>> skills and/or interest necessary to be able, and likely to,  
>>> contribute to the project in a meaningful way
>>>
>>> 3. the project is now reaching a point where we do want to  
>>> attract more end-users that will likely not contribute directly  
>>> to the project, or even interact directly with it, but that are  
>>> certainly still extremely important to the long term success and  
>>> stability of the project
>>>
>>> 4. the web site has been created and maintained by a single  
>>> person (yours truly and sincerely) with little feedback except  
>>> for occasional small mistakes or needs for change or  
>>> contributions like testimonials and case studies (which we could  
>>> use a LOT more of); the person who has created and is maintaining  
>>> the site has done quite a bit of research on web site usability  
>>> including reviewing various case studies (the current "big page"  
>>> design for the home page was based on a case study of amazon.com)  
>>> and studied human-computer interaction in his one semester of  
>>> graduate school, and so he knows very well that one of the big  
>>> problems with the current site is that it has had no usability  
>>> studies, and not enough feedback from actual users to substitute  
>>> for that; he is also not a graphic designer and has demonstrated  
>>> this by creating the current layout and color scheme of the ofbiz  
>>> site
>>>
>>> Because of this history of the site and the changing direction of  
>>> the project, my opinion is that instead of starting with what  
>>> we've got and talking about moving things around, perhaps we  
>>> should start with more of a blank slate and talk about what we'd  
>>> like the site to look like, and then after something is in place  
>>> there review the current stuff and decide where everything should  
>>> go (including a trash bin option...).
>>>
>>> With iterative changes at this point, like the ones you've  
>>> proposed which are individually good, I think it could hide  
>>> resources or make the site more difficult to navigate for a  
>>> while, ie until it finally settles down, and during that period  
>>> it could be even worse than it is now in terms of usability, find-
>>> ability, et cetera.
>>>
>>> -David
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sep 15, 2006, at 4:31 AM, Jacopo Cappellato wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> what about simplifying the main page of the OFBiz website:
>>>>
>>>> http://incubator.apache.org/ofbiz/
>>>>
>>>> ?
>>>>
>>>> I've started reviewing the links in the left column (that for  
>>>> your convenience I've copied at the bottom of this message), and  
>>>> I think that some of them are unnecessary and can be removed or  
>>>> at least moved to a new web page named "Misc Resources" (or  
>>>> something like this).
>>>>
>>>> In detail:
>>>>
>>>> 1) the section "Cool Sites" could be removed
>>>>
>>>> 2) the sections "Apache OFBiz Communities" and "Apache OFBiz  
>>>> Related Blogs" could be moved to the new "Resources" page
>>>>
>>>> 3) in the "What is OFBiz?" section, the links "Brochures",  
>>>> "Conference Videos" and "Framework Intro Videos" should be moved  
>>>> to the http://incubator.apache.org/ofbiz/documents.html page
>>>>
>>>> 4) in the "Download OFBiz" section:
>>>> 4a) the links "Getting And Using OFBiz", "Production Setup  
>>>> Guide", should be moved to the http://incubator.apache.org/ofbiz/ 
>>>> documents.html page
>>>> 4b) the "Documentation" link can be removed
>>>> 4c) the "Release Notes" link can be removed (or hidden) because  
>>>> it the referenced document is too old
>>>> 4d) the "Download Releases" link should be hidden or should  
>>>> point to the new (temp) folder where the RC1 is stored: I think  
>>>> that the reference to the OLD sourceforge release can be very  
>>>> confusing for new users
>>>>
>>>> 5) in the "Resources & Tools" section:
>>>> 5a) add a new link to the new "Misc Resources" page (that needs  
>>>> to be created)
>>>> 5b) move the "Old Mailing Lists", "The Old Java.net Site",
>>>> "The Old SourceForge.net Site", "Old Wiki" links to the new  
>>>> "Misc Resources" page
>>>> 5c) remove the "Old Jira (Issue Tracker)" link
>>>> 5d) all the following links can be moved (they are already in  
>>>> the "documentation" page): "Documentation (Confluence)",  
>>>> "Production Setup Guide", "Documentation" (maybe we could leave  
>>>> just this), "Conference Videos"
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for your time,
>>>>
>>>> Jacopo
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ===================================================
>>>> ***What is OFBiz?***
>>>>
>>>> General Overview
>>>> Is OFBiz for Me?
>>>> Feature List
>>>> Features Coming Soon
>>>> Brochures
>>>> Documentation
>>>> Conference Videos
>>>> Framework Intro Videos
>>>>
>>>> ***Demo Site***
>>>>
>>>> Extended Demo by Open Travel System
>>>> eCommerce Demo
>>>> Management Console
>>>> Hotel Frontend
>>>> Hotel Backend
>>>>
>>>> ***Download OFBiz***
>>>>
>>>> Getting And Using OFBiz (PDF)
>>>> Production Setup Guide
>>>> Source Access (Recommended)
>>>> Release Notes
>>>> Download Releases
>>>> Weekly Builds
>>>> Documentation
>>>> Copyright & License
>>>>
>>>> ***Resources & Tools***
>>>>
>>>> Apache Incubator Status
>>>> dev Mailing List
>>>> user Mailing List
>>>> commits Mailing List
>>>> Old Mailing Lists
>>>> Apache OFBiz - Jira (Issue Tracker)
>>>> Old Jira (Issue Tracker)
>>>> SVN (Source Repository)
>>>> Documentation (Confluence)
>>>> Docs Site: Wiki
>>>> Old Wiki
>>>> Production Setup Guide
>>>> Documentation
>>>> Conference Videos
>>>> The Old Java.net Site
>>>> The Old SourceForge.net Site
>>>>
>>>> ***Apache OFBiz Related Blogs***
>>>>
>>>> OFBiz and Open Source by David E. Jones
>>>> What's New in OFBiz by Si Chen
>>>>
>>>> ***Apache OFBiz Communities***
>>>>
>>>> Locales
>>>>   United Kingdom
>>>>   Germany
>>>>   France
>>>>   Netherlands
>>>>   China
>>>> Industries
>>>>   Government
>>>>   Travel
>>>>
>>>> ***Cool Sites***
>>>>
>>>> Java.Net
>>>> SourceForge
>>>> FreshMeat
>>>> NewsForge
>>>> Slashdot
>>>> JavaLobby
>>>> TheServerSide
>>