Transfer Orders (TOs)

[Daniel Riquelme]

Hi,

I was wondering if anyone has used/implemented Transfer Orders in OFBiz to
represent the transfer of multiple inventory items from one facility to
another.
I think that an inventory transfer (as implemented in OFBiz) represents a
different concept from the one described above, since it doesn't have a
Shipment or multiple inventory items associated with it.
One idea would be to create a new Order type to represent this kind of
warehouse process. The Order mechanism already knows how to create shipments
and item issuances for product items.

Any ideas ?

Daniel Riquelme

[BJ Freeman]

it would be a little more complicated since the accounting would track
it as a sale  or purchase instead of moving assets from one location to
another.

Daniel Riquelme sent the following on 4/9/2008 7:22 AM:

> Hi,
>
> I was wondering if anyone has used/implemented Transfer Orders in OFBiz to
> represent the transfer of multiple inventory items from one facility to
> another.
> I think that an inventory transfer (as implemented in OFBiz) represents a
> different concept from the one described above, since it doesn't have a
> Shipment or multiple inventory items associated with it.
> One idea would be to create a new Order type to represent this kind of
> warehouse process. The Order mechanism already knows how to create shipments
> and item issuances for product items.
>
> Any ideas ?
>
> Daniel Riquelme
>

[Daniel Riquelme]

I figured that would be a problem.
How would you feel about creating a Transfer Order mechanism in OFBiz by
emulating or reusing the current Sales Order logic and implementing some
secas that would produce the appropriate transactions in accounting (It
would be nice to get an accounting representation of the transfer when the
facilities involved belong to different cost centers).

I currently need to implement something equivalent to a TO in OFBiz for a
retail project.

Regards,
Daniel Riquelme


On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 10:46 AM, BJ Freeman <[hidden email]> wrote:

> it would be a little more complicated since the accounting would track
> it as a sale  or purchase instead of moving assets from one location to
> another.
>
> Daniel Riquelme sent the following on 4/9/2008 7:22 AM:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I was wondering if anyone has used/implemented Transfer Orders in OFBiz
> to
> > represent the transfer of multiple inventory items from one facility to
> > another.
> > I think that an inventory transfer (as implemented in OFBiz) represents
> a
> > different concept from the one described above, since it doesn't have a
> > Shipment or multiple inventory items associated with it.
> > One idea would be to create a new Order type to represent this kind of
> > warehouse process. The Order mechanism already knows how to create
> shipments
> > and item issuances for product items.
> >
> > Any ideas ?
> >
> > Daniel Riquelme
> >
>
>

[Christian Geisert]

Daniel Riquelme schrieb:
> I figured that would be a problem.
> How would you feel about creating a Transfer Order mechanism in OFBiz by
> emulating or reusing the current Sales Order logic and implementing some
> secas that would produce the appropriate transactions in accounting (It
> would be nice to get an accounting representation of the transfer when the
> facilities involved belong to different cost centers).
>
> I currently need to implement something equivalent to a TO in OFBiz for a
> retail project.

This issue sounds related: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-352

--
Christian

[Daniel Riquelme]

Yes, in fact it is.
OFBiz already do something regarding accounting for transfers, it is
automatically taken care of when the owner parties of the facilities are
different.
I think the recommendation of Si in
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-352 is the way to go with this
issue.
I wonder if he has implemented it in opentaps.

Regards,
Daniel Riquelme

On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 11:36 AM, Christian Geisert <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Daniel Riquelme schrieb:
>
> > I figured that would be a problem.
> > How would you feel about creating a Transfer Order mechanism in OFBiz by
> > emulating or reusing the current Sales Order logic and implementing some
> > secas that would produce the appropriate transactions in accounting (It
> > would be nice to get an accounting representation of the transfer when
> > the
> > facilities involved belong to different cost centers).
> >
> > I currently need to implement something equivalent to a TO in OFBiz for
> > a
> > retail project.
> >
>
> This issue sounds related: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-352
>
> --
> Christian
>
>

[BJ Freeman]

it is best to ask opentaps questions on
https://sourceforge.net/forum/?group_id=145855

Daniel Riquelme sent the following on 4/10/2008 7:15 AM:

> Yes, in fact it is.
> OFBiz already do something regarding accounting for transfers, it is
> automatically taken care of when the owner parties of the facilities are
> different.
> I think the recommendation of Si in
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-352 is the way to go with this
> issue.
> I wonder if he has implemented it in opentaps.
>
> Regards,
> Daniel Riquelme
>
> On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 11:36 AM, Christian Geisert <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Daniel Riquelme schrieb:
>>
>>> I figured that would be a problem.
>>> How would you feel about creating a Transfer Order mechanism in OFBiz by
>>> emulating or reusing the current Sales Order logic and implementing some
>>> secas that would produce the appropriate transactions in accounting (It
>>> would be nice to get an accounting representation of the transfer when
>>> the
>>> facilities involved belong to different cost centers).
>>>
>>> I currently need to implement something equivalent to a TO in OFBiz for
>>> a
>>> retail project.
>>>
>> This issue sounds related: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-352
>>
>> --
>> Christian
>>
>>
>

[Jacopo Cappellato-3]

This is an interesting thread.
We should also consider that very often a TO should be treated like a  
standard sales/purchase order where one division orders some product  
from the other one, the items are shipped and received (aka  
transferred) and invoiced.
And the accounting transactions associated to the process as well are  
very similar to the ones that happen when something is purchased and  
received into warehouse from a customer.

Jacopo

On Apr 10, 2008, at 4:15 PM, Daniel Riquelme wrote:

> Yes, in fact it is.
> OFBiz already do something regarding accounting for transfers, it is
> automatically taken care of when the owner parties of the facilities  
> are
> different.
> I think the recommendation of Si in
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-352 is the way to go  
> with this
> issue.
> I wonder if he has implemented it in opentaps.
>
> Regards,
> Daniel Riquelme
>
> On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 11:36 AM, Christian Geisert <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Daniel Riquelme schrieb:
>>
>>> I figured that would be a problem.
>>> How would you feel about creating a Transfer Order mechanism in  
>>> OFBiz by
>>> emulating or reusing the current Sales Order logic and  
>>> implementing some
>>> secas that would produce the appropriate transactions in  
>>> accounting (It
>>> would be nice to get an accounting representation of the transfer  
>>> when
>>> the
>>> facilities involved belong to different cost centers).
>>>
>>> I currently need to implement something equivalent to a TO in  
>>> OFBiz for
>>> a
>>> retail project.
>>>
>>
>> This issue sounds related: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-352
>>
>> --
>> Christian
>>
>>

[Jacques Le Roux]

Yes, it would be interesting to know if it's used in Opentaps

Jacques

From: "BJ Freeman" <[hidden email]>

> it is best to ask opentaps questions on
> https://sourceforge.net/forum/?group_id=145855
>
> Daniel Riquelme sent the following on 4/10/2008 7:15 AM:
>> Yes, in fact it is.
>> OFBiz already do something regarding accounting for transfers, it is
>> automatically taken care of when the owner parties of the facilities are
>> different.
>> I think the recommendation of Si in
>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-352 is the way to go with this
>> issue.
>> I wonder if he has implemented it in opentaps.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Daniel Riquelme
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 11:36 AM, Christian Geisert <
>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> Daniel Riquelme schrieb:
>>>
>>>> I figured that would be a problem.
>>>> How would you feel about creating a Transfer Order mechanism in OFBiz by
>>>> emulating or reusing the current Sales Order logic and implementing some
>>>> secas that would produce the appropriate transactions in accounting (It
>>>> would be nice to get an accounting representation of the transfer when
>>>> the
>>>> facilities involved belong to different cost centers).
>>>>
>>>> I currently need to implement something equivalent to a TO in OFBiz for
>>>> a
>>>> retail project.
>>>>
>>> This issue sounds related: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-352
>>>
>>> --
>>> Christian
>>>
>>>
>>
>

[sducas]

Hello, all

I'm currently implementing the transfer order becasue I need it for a customer..

The requirement was: Inventory transfer has to be picked in the facility just like a sales order..

So I added to role: InternalSupplier and InternalCustomer and an OrderType: TransferOrder..

WHen the transfer order has been picked then it can be shipped and when it is the InventoryTransfer is posted..

If someone is interrested with this feature please let me know and I'll post the component..

THX

[Jacques Le Roux]

I'm not quite sure to get it, what a "transfer order" is? Could you elaborate a bit more? Is it an order internal to a company?

Thanks

Jacques

sducas wrote:

> Hello, all
>
> I'm currently implementing the transfer order becasue I need it for a
> customer..
>
> The requirement was: Inventory transfer has to be picked in the facility
> just like a sales order..
>
> So I added to role: InternalSupplier and InternalCustomer and an OrderType:
> TransferOrder..
>
> WHen the transfer order has been picked then it can be shipped and when it
> is the InventoryTransfer is posted..
>
> If someone is interrested with this feature please let me know and I'll post
> the component..
>
> THX

[sducas]

Hello Jacques

My customer have a "center of purchase" from where all purchase orders to external suppliers are created, then suppliers ship the goods to this "center of purchase" (I don't know the actual english word for that kind of center, sorry..) ..

Then all my customer stores has to "order" goods to this unique center to supply their facility.. (a requirement is also to use ATP and QOH minimum quantity to generate needs then transfer orders when approved).. there is no invoice or any financial impact for those kind of orders and they have to be treated separatly for statistics reports and they (of course) have to trigger an inventory transfert instead of sales issuance.. exept for those 3 specificity it's the same process as for a sale order: pick, verify, ship ...

The inventory transfer from ofbiz out-of-the box didn't fullfill the requirements at all.. and the patch posted by Si wasn't enough for my customer requirements because those kinds of inventeory transfer has to be picked just like a sales order...

I know transfer order dosn't seems to be in the Datamodel book but I heard about a concept called "interplant order" that seems to be exactly the same a this while transfer order stuff..

The ofbiz pick logic seems to be very tight to orders...

THX

[Jacques Le Roux]

It looks like it would be interesting to see that as a specialpurpose components. Feel free to create a Jira post a patch (or a zip)
and I'm sure some will review and test...

Thanks

Jacques

sducas wrote:

> Hello Jacques
>
> My customer have a "center of purchase" from where all purchase orders to
> external suppliers are created, then suppliers ship the goods to this
> "center of purchase" (I don't know the actual english word for that kind of
> center, sorry..) ..
>
> Then all my customer stores has to "order" goods to this unique center to
> supply their facility.. (a requirement is also to use ATP and QOH minimum
> quantity to generate needs then transfer orders when approved).. there is no
> invoice or any financial impact for those kind of orders and they have to be
> treated separatly for statistics reports and they (of course) have to
> trigger an inventory transfert instead of sales issuance.. exept for those 3
> specificity it's the same process as for a sale order: pick, verify, ship
> ...
>
> The inventory transfer from ofbiz out-of-the box didn't fullfill the
> requirements at all.. and the patch posted by Si wasn't enough for my
> customer requirements because those kinds of inventeory transfer has to be
> picked just like a sales order...
>
> I know transfer order dosn't seems to be in the Datamodel book but I heard
> about a concept called "interplant order" that seems to be exactly the same
> a this while transfer order stuff..
>
> The ofbiz pick logic seems to be very tight to orders...
>
> THX

[BJ Freeman]

what you describe is a Chain store or Franchise stores model.
The Corporate office Orders all inventory to be sent to a HUb or main
warehouse.

The store or franchises then order their needs from Hub warehouse.

ofbiz structure supports this though the services need to be customized
each store(productstore) is a facility with its own inventory. The
"supplier" of the stores would be the HUB (corporate office) and
handling the  ATP and QOH at each store would trigger a PO to the HUB
which would then do a transfer.

I suggest you look a the data model book volume one for basic data and
how it relates, then step back and see how that relates to you specific
customers structure.

there is a lot of setup as to the partyrelationship (pg 41) that would
give you the structure. This would be the core of you design.

Using the roles and security you can isolate the stores as far as view
data. this also is a customization in the UI.



hope that helps you get started.




sducas sent the following on 1/25/2011 4:06 AM:

>
> Hello Jacques
>
> My customer have a "center of purchase" from where all purchase orders to
> external suppliers are created, then suppliers ship the goods to this
> "center of purchase" (I don't know the actual english word for that kind of
> center, sorry..) ..
>
> Then all my customer stores has to "order" goods to this unique center to
> supply their facility.. (a requirement is also to use ATP and QOH minimum
> quantity to generate needs then transfer orders when approved).. there is no
> invoice or any financial impact for those kind of orders and they have to be
> treated separatly for statistics reports and they (of course) have to
> trigger an inventory transfert instead of sales issuance.. exept for those 3
> specificity it's the same process as for a sale order: pick, verify, ship
> ...
>
> The inventory transfer from ofbiz out-of-the box didn't fullfill the
> requirements at all.. and the patch posted by Si wasn't enough for my
> customer requirements because those kinds of inventeory transfer has to be
> picked just like a sales order...
>
> I know transfer order dosn't seems to be in the Datamodel book but I heard
> about a concept called "interplant order" that seems to be exactly the same
> a this while transfer order stuff..
>
> The ofbiz pick logic seems to be very tight to orders...
>
> THX

[Jacques Le Roux]

BJ,

I understood that the component already exists, and that it's a proposition to a contribution.That's why I spoke about a
specialpurpose component. To be really interesting it should reuse as much as possible existing things, like you described, for
instance

Thanks

Jacques

From: "BJ Freeman" <[hidden email]>

> what you describe is a Chain store or Franchise stores model.
> The Corporate office Orders all inventory to be sent to a HUb or main warehouse.
>
> The store or franchises then order their needs from Hub warehouse.
>
> ofbiz structure supports this though the services need to be customized
> each store(productstore) is a facility with its own inventory. The "supplier" of the stores would be the HUB (corporate office)
> and handling the  ATP and QOH at each store would trigger a PO to the HUB which would then do a transfer.
>
> I suggest you look a the data model book volume one for basic data and how it relates, then step back and see how that relates to
> you specific customers structure.
>
> there is a lot of setup as to the partyrelationship (pg 41) that would give you the structure. This would be the core of you
> design.
>
> Using the roles and security you can isolate the stores as far as view data. this also is a customization in the UI.
>
>
>
> hope that helps you get started.
>
>
>
>
> sducas sent the following on 1/25/2011 4:06 AM:
>>
>> Hello Jacques
>>
>> My customer have a "center of purchase" from where all purchase orders to
>> external suppliers are created, then suppliers ship the goods to this
>> "center of purchase" (I don't know the actual english word for that kind of
>> center, sorry..) ..
>>
>> Then all my customer stores has to "order" goods to this unique center to
>> supply their facility.. (a requirement is also to use ATP and QOH minimum
>> quantity to generate needs then transfer orders when approved).. there is no
>> invoice or any financial impact for those kind of orders and they have to be
>> treated separatly for statistics reports and they (of course) have to
>> trigger an inventory transfert instead of sales issuance.. exept for those 3
>> specificity it's the same process as for a sale order: pick, verify, ship
>> ...
>>
>> The inventory transfer from ofbiz out-of-the box didn't fullfill the
>> requirements at all.. and the patch posted by Si wasn't enough for my
>> customer requirements because those kinds of inventeory transfer has to be
>> picked just like a sales order...
>>
>> I know transfer order dosn't seems to be in the Datamodel book but I heard
>> about a concept called "interplant order" that seems to be exactly the same
>> a this while transfer order stuff..
>>
>> The ofbiz pick logic seems to be very tight to orders...
>>
>> THX
>

[BJ Freeman]

I guess i should have replied to yours to show I understood you position.
the specialpurpost componet is
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-3852
as used in
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-635

however that does not directly address his problem now, so I just
outlined it.

=========================
BJ Freeman
Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation  <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
Specialtymarket.com  <http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist

Chat  Y! messenger: bjfr33man


Jacques Le Roux sent the following on 1/25/2011 10:18 AM:

> BJ,
>
> I understood that the component already exists, and that it's a
> proposition to a contribution.That's why I spoke about a specialpurpose
> component. To be really interesting it should reuse as much as possible
> existing things, like you described, for instance
>
> Thanks
>
> Jacques
>
> From: "BJ Freeman" <[hidden email]>
>> what you describe is a Chain store or Franchise stores model.
>> The Corporate office Orders all inventory to be sent to a HUb or main
>> warehouse.
>>
>> The store or franchises then order their needs from Hub warehouse.
>>
>> ofbiz structure supports this though the services need to be customized
>> each store(productstore) is a facility with its own inventory. The
>> "supplier" of the stores would be the HUB (corporate office) and
>> handling the ATP and QOH at each store would trigger a PO to the HUB
>> which would then do a transfer.
>>
>> I suggest you look a the data model book volume one for basic data and
>> how it relates, then step back and see how that relates to you
>> specific customers structure.
>>
>> there is a lot of setup as to the partyrelationship (pg 41) that would
>> give you the structure. This would be the core of you design.
>>
>> Using the roles and security you can isolate the stores as far as view
>> data. this also is a customization in the UI.
>>
>>
>>
>> hope that helps you get started.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> sducas sent the following on 1/25/2011 4:06 AM:
>>>
>>> Hello Jacques
>>>
>>> My customer have a "center of purchase" from where all purchase
>>> orders to
>>> external suppliers are created, then suppliers ship the goods to this
>>> "center of purchase" (I don't know the actual english word for that
>>> kind of
>>> center, sorry..) ..
>>>
>>> Then all my customer stores has to "order" goods to this unique
>>> center to
>>> supply their facility.. (a requirement is also to use ATP and QOH
>>> minimum
>>> quantity to generate needs then transfer orders when approved)..
>>> there is no
>>> invoice or any financial impact for those kind of orders and they
>>> have to be
>>> treated separatly for statistics reports and they (of course) have to
>>> trigger an inventory transfert instead of sales issuance.. exept for
>>> those 3
>>> specificity it's the same process as for a sale order: pick, verify,
>>> ship
>>> ...
>>>
>>> The inventory transfer from ofbiz out-of-the box didn't fullfill the
>>> requirements at all.. and the patch posted by Si wasn't enough for my
>>> customer requirements because those kinds of inventeory transfer has
>>> to be
>>> picked just like a sales order...
>>>
>>> I know transfer order dosn't seems to be in the Datamodel book but I
>>> heard
>>> about a concept called "interplant order" that seems to be exactly
>>> the same
>>> a this while transfer order stuff..
>>>
>>> The ofbiz pick logic seems to be very tight to orders...
>>>
>>> THX
>>
>
>
>

[sducas]

Hello BJ,

Do you mean there is no need for a new Type of order (Transfer Order) ?

I readed the Datamodel book and I can't figure out how to use sales and purchase for such on order..

So I have two questions:

1- If a store create a purchase order to the hub.. will the hub will see it as a sales order? I tryed with ofbiz but I can never get this "sale to purchase binding"...Do you mean that if I put the correct roles on my parties (hub and stores) ofbiz will map purchases to sales ?

2- If a good is orderded first from the hub to the store then to the store to the final customer then each good will be sold twice and that might complexifie the statistic reports.. (in my customer case the Hub to store movement is not a sale and has to be ignored for sales reports)..

THX for you answer!

[BJ Freeman]

you have how the client terminology and how ofbiz accomplishes the
functions.
what you want to accomplish requires customization, so you can not
achieve it OOTB.
Assuming that the stores are part of the main companies then there would
not be two "Sales".
to discuss how to modify ofbiz to accomplish this is beyond the time I
have to commit to the mailing list.

#1 the normal business flow is a PO from a company creates a Sales order
at the company receiving it. However if you look at a PO as Inventory
Transfer then you doing what you want. This is a customization.

#2the way you client has it should be right. this is Solved by How you
do #1

=========================
BJ Freeman
Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation  <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
Specialtymarket.com  <http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist

Chat  Y! messenger: bjfr33man


sducas sent the following on 1/26/2011 2:48 AM:

>
> Hello BJ,
>
> Do you mean there is no need for a new Type of order (Transfer Order) ?
>
> I readed the Datamodel book and I can't figure out how to use sales and
> purchase for such on order..
>
> So I have two questions:
>
> 1- If a store create a purchase order to the hub.. will the hub will see it
> as a sales order? I tryed with ofbiz but I can never get this "sale to
> purchase binding"...Do you mean that if I put the correct roles on my
> parties (hub and stores) ofbiz will map purchases to sales ?
>
> 2- If a good is orderded first from the hub to the store then to the store
> to the final customer then each good will be sold twice and that might
> complexifie the statistic reports.. (in my customer case the Hub to store
> movement is not a sale and has to be ignored for sales reports)..
>
> THX for you answer!

[Paul Foxworthy]

In your exact situation (transfers between two divisions of an organisation where the same Ofbiz system is used by both), there is really no such thing as a "purchase" or a "sales" order, just an order. Whether it is a purchase or a sale depends on the perspective of the user.

Fundamentally, the Ofbiz data model has this right. There is just one Order entity. However, there are several places in Ofbiz that give different behaviour depending on the order type. A quick way to see this is to grep for SALES_ORDER. One that has been a specific problem for me is that sales tax only applies to sales orders. In countries that have a VAT or GST, tax applies to purchases as well. To my mind, looking at the order type for a purchase or sales is just a proxy for who the parties are - in other words, is this order an input or an output for our organization?

In your case, you might infer that the order is a transfer if *both* parties are internal organizations. You can determine if the order is a "sales" or a "purchase" from the perspective of the current user by checking what relationship that user has with one or the other of the parties.

I have written some code in a customised version of the calcTax service to infer if an order is a purchase or sale based om which of the two parties is an internal organisation. I don't have to worry about transfers, so I haven't done anything about the "both internal" situation. I can send you my code if that's of interest.

I suspect you will have to customise Ofbiz to make transfers work. If you do, bear in mind that some organizations might use real money for transfers between divisions, where if I understand you correctly your doesn't.

Cheers

Paul Foxworthy

[sducas]

Hello Paul,

I understand that i will have to customize ofbiz to fullfill my customer needs..

I guess i have two options:

1- I define the transfer order (instanceof OrderType) and i customize the sales order UI to work with my new type of order (that the option i work on at the moment) the pros for this solution is to isolate those order from sales or purchase order, that way would be easier to get correct statistics without having to customize them a lot, this option also prevent me to write seca conditions for invoicing orders..

2- I create a Purchase Order for each Sales Order and also the contrary (because goods can by ordered to the store by the store itself OR by the hub).. I would maybe prefer this solution if ofbiz has any existing service that can help me to do so..

For now I'm working on the first option but if anyone think this is not the correct way to implement the business flow.. please let me know...

THX Paul for your answer!

[sducas]

PS:

I guess I need to use orders (sales or transfer) because my customer needs to pick inventory transfer in the facility just like a sales order is picked... OfBiz Picking logic is very tight to orders and i guess separating picking logic from orders would be a huge workeffort..

THX