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Pierre Smits-3

Unsubscribe footer

Hi all,

I have asked INFRA to place an unsubscribe footer automatically at the end
of each distributed posting.

Best regards,

Pierre

--
Sent from my phone

Pierre Smits-3

Re: Unsubscribe footer

The unsubscribe footer is now in play for mail to [hidden email]

Best regards,

Pierre Smits

*Apache Trafodion <https://trafodion.apache.org>, Vice President*
*Apache Directory <https://directory.apache.org>, PMC Member*
Apache Incubator <https://incubator.apache.org>, committer
*Apache OFBiz <https://ofbiz.apache.org>, contributor (without privileges)
since 2008*
Apache Steve <https://steve.apache.org>, committer

On Sun, Jun 2, 2019 at 9:00 PM Pierre Smits <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I have asked INFRA to place an unsubscribe footer automatically at the end
> of each distributed posting.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Pierre
>
>
> --
> Sent from my phone
>

taher

Re: Unsubscribe footer

Why was this done without community agreement first?

On Mon, Jun 3, 2019 at 8:59 AM Pierre Smits <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> The unsubscribe footer is now in play for mail to [hidden email]
>
> Best regards,
>
> Pierre Smits
>
> *Apache Trafodion <https://trafodion.apache.org>, Vice President*
> *Apache Directory <https://directory.apache.org>, PMC Member*
> Apache Incubator <https://incubator.apache.org>, committer
> *Apache OFBiz <https://ofbiz.apache.org>, contributor (without privileges)
> since 2008*
> Apache Steve <https://steve.apache.org>, committer
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 2, 2019 at 9:00 PM Pierre Smits <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I have asked INFRA to place an unsubscribe footer automatically at the end
> > of each distributed posting.
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Pierre
> >
> >
> > --
> > Sent from my phone
> >

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]

Michael Brohl-3

Re: Unsubscribe footer

Good question, Taher.

This was done without any envolvement of others. I think we should have
consensus before taking any action towards infra.

Personally, I am not in favor of having another/additional signatures.
In the contrary, I would like to see them reduced to 1 or two lines to
make them more readable.

Some bad example with a content/noise ratio of 1:7 lines can be seen
below...

Regards,

Michael Brohl

ecomify GmbH - www.ecomify.de

Am 03.06.19 um 12:24 schrieb Taher Alkhateeb:

> Why was this done without community agreement first?
>
> On Mon, Jun 3, 2019 at 8:59 AM Pierre Smits <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> The unsubscribe footer is now in play for mail to [hidden email]
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Pierre Smits
>>
>> *Apache Trafodion <https://trafodion.apache.org>, Vice President*
>> *Apache Directory <https://directory.apache.org>, PMC Member*
>> Apache Incubator <https://incubator.apache.org>, committer
>> *Apache OFBiz <https://ofbiz.apache.org>, contributor (without privileges)
>> since 2008*
>> Apache Steve <https://steve.apache.org>, committer
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jun 2, 2019 at 9:00 PM Pierre Smits <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I have asked INFRA to place an unsubscribe footer automatically at the end
>>> of each distributed posting.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Pierre
>>>

smime.p7s (5K) Download Attachment

Jacques Le Roux

Re: Unsubscribe footer

Administrator

+1

But I can't see a way to enforce that. Apart maybe asking infra, and even then not sure it makes sense for "external writers" who have those kinds of
disclaimer messages at bottom

Jacques

Le 03/06/2019 à 12:36, Michael Brohl a écrit :

> Good question, Taher.
>
> This was done without any envolvement of others. I think we should have consensus before taking any action towards infra.
>
> Personally, I am not in favor of having another/additional signatures. In the contrary, I would like to see them reduced to 1 or two lines to make
> them more readable.
>
> Some bad example with a content/noise ratio of 1:7 lines can be seen below...
>
> Regards,
>
> Michael Brohl
>
> ecomify GmbH - www.ecomify.de
>
>
> Am 03.06.19 um 12:24 schrieb Taher Alkhateeb:
>> Why was this done without community agreement first?
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 3, 2019 at 8:59 AM Pierre Smits <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> The unsubscribe footer is now in play for mail to [hidden email]
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Pierre Smits
>>>
>>> *Apache Trafodion <https://trafodion.apache.org>, Vice President*
>>> *Apache Directory <https://directory.apache.org>, PMC Member*
>>> Apache Incubator <https://incubator.apache.org>, committer
>>> *Apache OFBiz <https://ofbiz.apache.org>, contributor (without privileges)
>>> since 2008*
>>> Apache Steve <https://steve.apache.org>, committer
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jun 2, 2019 at 9:00 PM Pierre Smits <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> I have asked INFRA to place an unsubscribe footer automatically at the end
>>>> of each distributed posting.
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>>
>>>> Pierre
>>>>
>

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]

Michael Brohl-3

Re: Unsubscribe footer

I don't think that we need a technical enforcement, community code of
conduct should be enough.

I don't see a problem with a longer signature from newcomers here and
there, but those who participate more often should be able to create a
shot signature which does not pollute the mail threads.

Thanks,

Michael

Am 03.06.19 um 13:11 schrieb Jacques Le Roux:

> +1
>
> But I can't see a way to enforce that. Apart maybe asking infra, and
> even then not sure it makes sense for "external writers" who have
> those kinds of disclaimer messages at bottom
>
> Jacques
>
> Le 03/06/2019 à 12:36, Michael Brohl a écrit :
>> Good question, Taher.
>>
>> This was done without any envolvement of others. I think we should
>> have consensus before taking any action towards infra.
>>
>> Personally, I am not in favor of having another/additional
>> signatures. In the contrary, I would like to see them reduced to 1 or
>> two lines to make them more readable.
>>
>> Some bad example with a content/noise ratio of 1:7 lines can be seen
>> below...
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Michael Brohl
>>
>> ecomify GmbH - www.ecomify.de
>>
>>
>> Am 03.06.19 um 12:24 schrieb Taher Alkhateeb:
>>> Why was this done without community agreement first?
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 3, 2019 at 8:59 AM Pierre Smits <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>> The unsubscribe footer is now in play for mail to [hidden email]
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>>
>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>

smime.p7s (5K) Download Attachment

Mathieu Lirzin

Re: Unsubscribe footer

In reply to this post by Michael Brohl-3

Michael Brohl <[hidden email]> writes:

> This was done without any envolvement of others. I think we should
> have consensus before taking any action towards infra.
>
> Personally, I am not in favor of having another/additional
> signatures. In the contrary, I would like to see them reduced to 1 or
> two lines to make them more readable.

I would prefer not having this additional footer too.

So +1.

Pierre: It would be nice if you could explain us why you thought it
would be OK to not ask for consensus before requesting infra to add that
footer.

--
Mathieu Lirzin
GPG: F2A3 8D7E EB2B 6640 5761 070D 0ADE E100 9460 4D37

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]

Michael Brohl-3

Re: Unsubscribe footer

In reply to this post by Michael Brohl-3

Hi all,

I've already informed Infra about this step taken without approvement
from the community, see [1]

Should I ask them to remove the footers?

Thanks,

Michael

[1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-18553

Am 03.06.19 um 15:12 schrieb Michael Brohl:

> I don't think that we need a technical enforcement, community code of
> conduct should be enough.
>
> I don't see a problem with a longer signature from newcomers here and
> there, but those who participate more often should be able to create a
> shot signature which does not pollute the mail threads.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Michael
>
> Am 03.06.19 um 13:11 schrieb Jacques Le Roux:
>> +1
>>
>> But I can't see a way to enforce that. Apart maybe asking infra, and
>> even then not sure it makes sense for "external writers" who have
>> those kinds of disclaimer messages at bottom
>>
>> Jacques
>>
>> Le 03/06/2019 à 12:36, Michael Brohl a écrit :
>>> Good question, Taher.
>>>
>>> This was done without any envolvement of others. I think we should
>>> have consensus before taking any action towards infra.
>>>
>>> Personally, I am not in favor of having another/additional
>>> signatures. In the contrary, I would like to see them reduced to 1
>>> or two lines to make them more readable.
>>>
>>> Some bad example with a content/noise ratio of 1:7 lines can be seen
>>> below...
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Michael Brohl
>>>
>>> ecomify GmbH - www.ecomify.de
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 03.06.19 um 12:24 schrieb Taher Alkhateeb:
>>>> Why was this done without community agreement first?
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jun 3, 2019 at 8:59 AM Pierre Smits
>>>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>> The unsubscribe footer is now in play for mail to [hidden email]
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>>
>

smime.p7s (5K) Download Attachment

taher

Re: Unsubscribe footer

I would recommend removing all footers from all emails. It's not worth the
extra noise for the rare occasions of some individuals not wanting to
unsubscribe.

I would also recommend that future actions with infra to be taken by a PMC
member (after community approval) since they have access to necessary
resources and are hence best fit to guide infra on the needs of the project.

On Wed, Jun 5, 2019, 11:09 AM Michael Brohl <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I've already informed Infra about this step taken without approvement
> from the community, see [1]
>
> Should I ask them to remove the footers?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Michael
>
>
> [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-18553
>
>
> Am 03.06.19 um 15:12 schrieb Michael Brohl:
> > I don't think that we need a technical enforcement, community code of
> > conduct should be enough.
> >
> > I don't see a problem with a longer signature from newcomers here and
> > there, but those who participate more often should be able to create a
> > shot signature which does not pollute the mail threads.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > Am 03.06.19 um 13:11 schrieb Jacques Le Roux:
> >> +1
> >>
> >> But I can't see a way to enforce that. Apart maybe asking infra, and
> >> even then not sure it makes sense for "external writers" who have
> >> those kinds of disclaimer messages at bottom
> >>
> >> Jacques
> >>
> >> Le 03/06/2019 à 12:36, Michael Brohl a écrit :
> >>> Good question, Taher.
> >>>
> >>> This was done without any envolvement of others. I think we should
> >>> have consensus before taking any action towards infra.
> >>>
> >>> Personally, I am not in favor of having another/additional
> >>> signatures. In the contrary, I would like to see them reduced to 1
> >>> or two lines to make them more readable.
> >>>
> >>> Some bad example with a content/noise ratio of 1:7 lines can be seen
> >>> below...
> >>>
> >>> Regards,
> >>>
> >>> Michael Brohl
> >>>
> >>> ecomify GmbH - www.ecomify.de
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Am 03.06.19 um 12:24 schrieb Taher Alkhateeb:
> >>>> Why was this done without community agreement first?
> >>>>
> >>>> On Mon, Jun 3, 2019 at 8:59 AM Pierre Smits
> >>>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>>>> The unsubscribe footer is now in play for mail to [hidden email]
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Best regards,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Pierre Smits
> >>>>>
> >
>
>

Jacques Le Roux

Re: Unsubscribe footer

Administrator

+1

Jacques

Le 05/06/2019 à 14:28, Taher Alkhateeb a écrit :

> I would recommend removing all footers from all emails. It's not worth the
> extra noise for the rare occasions of some individuals not wanting to
> unsubscribe.
>
> I would also recommend that future actions with infra to be taken by a PMC
> member (after community approval) since they have access to necessary
> resources and are hence best fit to guide infra on the needs of the project.
>
> On Wed, Jun 5, 2019, 11:09 AM Michael Brohl <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I've already informed Infra about this step taken without approvement
>> from the community, see [1]
>>
>> Should I ask them to remove the footers?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Michael
>>
>>
>> [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-18553
>>
>>
>> Am 03.06.19 um 15:12 schrieb Michael Brohl:
>>> I don't think that we need a technical enforcement, community code of
>>> conduct should be enough.
>>>
>>> I don't see a problem with a longer signature from newcomers here and
>>> there, but those who participate more often should be able to create a
>>> shot signature which does not pollute the mail threads.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>
>>> Am 03.06.19 um 13:11 schrieb Jacques Le Roux:
>>>> +1
>>>>
>>>> But I can't see a way to enforce that. Apart maybe asking infra, and
>>>> even then not sure it makes sense for "external writers" who have
>>>> those kinds of disclaimer messages at bottom
>>>>
>>>> Jacques
>>>>
>>>> Le 03/06/2019 à 12:36, Michael Brohl a écrit :
>>>>> Good question, Taher.
>>>>>
>>>>> This was done without any envolvement of others. I think we should
>>>>> have consensus before taking any action towards infra.
>>>>>
>>>>> Personally, I am not in favor of having another/additional
>>>>> signatures. In the contrary, I would like to see them reduced to 1
>>>>> or two lines to make them more readable.
>>>>>
>>>>> Some bad example with a content/noise ratio of 1:7 lines can be seen
>>>>> below...
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Michael Brohl
>>>>>
>>>>> ecomify GmbH - www.ecomify.de
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Am 03.06.19 um 12:24 schrieb Taher Alkhateeb:
>>>>>> Why was this done without community agreement first?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 3, 2019 at 8:59 AM Pierre Smits
>>>>>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>> The unsubscribe footer is now in play for mail to [hidden email]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>>>>
>>

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]

Swapnil M Mane

Re: Unsubscribe footer

In reply to this post by taher

+1

- Best Regards,
Swapnil M Mane

On Wed, Jun 5, 2019 at 5:58 PM Taher Alkhateeb <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> I would recommend removing all footers from all emails. It's not worth the
> extra noise for the rare occasions of some individuals not wanting to
> unsubscribe.
>
> I would also recommend that future actions with infra to be taken by a PMC
> member (after community approval) since they have access to necessary
> resources and are hence best fit to guide infra on the needs of the
> project.
>
> On Wed, Jun 5, 2019, 11:09 AM Michael Brohl <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I've already informed Infra about this step taken without approvement
> > from the community, see [1]
> >
> > Should I ask them to remove the footers?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Michael
> >
> >
> > [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-18553
> >
> >
> > Am 03.06.19 um 15:12 schrieb Michael Brohl:
> > > I don't think that we need a technical enforcement, community code of
> > > conduct should be enough.
> > >
> > > I don't see a problem with a longer signature from newcomers here and
> > > there, but those who participate more often should be able to create a
> > > shot signature which does not pollute the mail threads.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Michael
> > >
> > > Am 03.06.19 um 13:11 schrieb Jacques Le Roux:
> > >> +1
> > >>
> > >> But I can't see a way to enforce that. Apart maybe asking infra, and
> > >> even then not sure it makes sense for "external writers" who have
> > >> those kinds of disclaimer messages at bottom
> > >>
> > >> Jacques
> > >>
> > >> Le 03/06/2019 à 12:36, Michael Brohl a écrit :
> > >>> Good question, Taher.
> > >>>
> > >>> This was done without any envolvement of others. I think we should
> > >>> have consensus before taking any action towards infra.
> > >>>
> > >>> Personally, I am not in favor of having another/additional
> > >>> signatures. In the contrary, I would like to see them reduced to 1
> > >>> or two lines to make them more readable.
> > >>>
> > >>> Some bad example with a content/noise ratio of 1:7 lines can be seen
> > >>> below...
> > >>>
> > >>> Regards,
> > >>>
> > >>> Michael Brohl
> > >>>
> > >>> ecomify GmbH - www.ecomify.de
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Am 03.06.19 um 12:24 schrieb Taher Alkhateeb:
> > >>>> Why was this done without community agreement first?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On Mon, Jun 3, 2019 at 8:59 AM Pierre Smits
> > >>>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >>>>> The unsubscribe footer is now in play for mail to [hidden email]
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Best regards,
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Pierre Smits
> > >>>>>
> > >
> >
> >
>

Michael Brohl-3

Re: Unsubscribe footer

Thanks everyone,

the footers are removed by Infra on my request (with apologies) with
reference to this discussion (see [1]).

@Pierre: do you want to tell us why you think it's ok to act
independently of any community consensus or even discussion?

Thanks,

Michael

[1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-18553

Am 06.06.19 um 06:37 schrieb Swapnil M Mane:

> +1
>
>
> - Best Regards,
> Swapnil M Mane
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 5, 2019 at 5:58 PM Taher Alkhateeb <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> I would recommend removing all footers from all emails. It's not worth the
>> extra noise for the rare occasions of some individuals not wanting to
>> unsubscribe.
>>
>> I would also recommend that future actions with infra to be taken by a PMC
>> member (after community approval) since they have access to necessary
>> resources and are hence best fit to guide infra on the needs of the
>> project.
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 5, 2019, 11:09 AM Michael Brohl <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I've already informed Infra about this step taken without approvement
>>> from the community, see [1]
>>>
>>> Should I ask them to remove the footers?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>
>>>
>>> [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-18553
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 03.06.19 um 15:12 schrieb Michael Brohl:
>>>> I don't think that we need a technical enforcement, community code of
>>>> conduct should be enough.
>>>>
>>>> I don't see a problem with a longer signature from newcomers here and
>>>> there, but those who participate more often should be able to create a
>>>> shot signature which does not pollute the mail threads.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Michael
>>>>
>>>> Am 03.06.19 um 13:11 schrieb Jacques Le Roux:
>>>>> +1
>>>>>
>>>>> But I can't see a way to enforce that. Apart maybe asking infra, and
>>>>> even then not sure it makes sense for "external writers" who have
>>>>> those kinds of disclaimer messages at bottom
>>>>>
>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>
>>>>> Le 03/06/2019 à 12:36, Michael Brohl a écrit :
>>>>>> Good question, Taher.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This was done without any envolvement of others. I think we should
>>>>>> have consensus before taking any action towards infra.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Personally, I am not in favor of having another/additional
>>>>>> signatures. In the contrary, I would like to see them reduced to 1
>>>>>> or two lines to make them more readable.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Some bad example with a content/noise ratio of 1:7 lines can be seen
>>>>>> below...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Michael Brohl
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ecomify GmbH - www.ecomify.de
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Am 03.06.19 um 12:24 schrieb Taher Alkhateeb:
>>>>>>> Why was this done without community agreement first?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 3, 2019 at 8:59 AM Pierre Smits
>>>>>>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>>> The unsubscribe footer is now in play for mail to [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>>>>>
>>>

smime.p7s (5K) Download Attachment

Mike Z

Re: Unsubscribe footer

I agree that there should be an unsubscribe link. I'm with Pierre.

On Thu, Jun 6, 2019 at 5:23 AM Michael Brohl <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Thanks everyone,
>
> the footers are removed by Infra on my request (with apologies) with
> reference to this discussion (see [1]).
>
> @Pierre: do you want to tell us why you think it's ok to act
> independently of any community consensus or even discussion?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Michael
>
> [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-18553
>
> Am 06.06.19 um 06:37 schrieb Swapnil M Mane:
> > +1
> >
> >
> > - Best Regards,
> > Swapnil M Mane
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Jun 5, 2019 at 5:58 PM Taher Alkhateeb <
> [hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> I would recommend removing all footers from all emails. It's not worth
> the
> >> extra noise for the rare occasions of some individuals not wanting to
> >> unsubscribe.
> >>
> >> I would also recommend that future actions with infra to be taken by a
> PMC
> >> member (after community approval) since they have access to necessary
> >> resources and are hence best fit to guide infra on the needs of the
> >> project.
> >>
> >> On Wed, Jun 5, 2019, 11:09 AM Michael Brohl <[hidden email]>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi all,
> >>>
> >>> I've already informed Infra about this step taken without approvement
> >>> from the community, see [1]
> >>>
> >>> Should I ask them to remove the footers?
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>>
> >>> Michael
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-18553
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Am 03.06.19 um 15:12 schrieb Michael Brohl:
> >>>> I don't think that we need a technical enforcement, community code of
> >>>> conduct should be enough.
> >>>>
> >>>> I don't see a problem with a longer signature from newcomers here and
> >>>> there, but those who participate more often should be able to create a
> >>>> shot signature which does not pollute the mail threads.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks,
> >>>>
> >>>> Michael
> >>>>
> >>>> Am 03.06.19 um 13:11 schrieb Jacques Le Roux:
> >>>>> +1
> >>>>>
> >>>>> But I can't see a way to enforce that. Apart maybe asking infra, and
> >>>>> even then not sure it makes sense for "external writers" who have
> >>>>> those kinds of disclaimer messages at bottom
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Jacques
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Le 03/06/2019 à 12:36, Michael Brohl a écrit :
> >>>>>> Good question, Taher.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> This was done without any envolvement of others. I think we should
> >>>>>> have consensus before taking any action towards infra.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Personally, I am not in favor of having another/additional
> >>>>>> signatures. In the contrary, I would like to see them reduced to 1
> >>>>>> or two lines to make them more readable.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Some bad example with a content/noise ratio of 1:7 lines can be seen
> >>>>>> below...
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Regards,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Michael Brohl
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ecomify GmbH - www.ecomify.de
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Am 03.06.19 um 12:24 schrieb Taher Alkhateeb:
> >>>>>>> Why was this done without community agreement first?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 3, 2019 at 8:59 AM Pierre Smits
> >>>>>>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>>>>>>> The unsubscribe footer is now in play for mail to [hidden email]
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Best regards,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Pierre Smits
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>
>
>

Ashish Vijaywargiya-4

Re: Unsubscribe footer

I don't think that Unsubscribe footer is needed in case of the mailing
list. The users who are subscribed to the mailing list because they wished
to be in touch with the communication going on within the project.
Subscription and unsubscription information from the mailing list is
publicly available and it is easily accessible on the Apache OFbiz website
- https://ofbiz.apache.org/mailing-lists.html.

The unsubscribe footer is more appropriate in the case of Newsletters. For
example, there was a time when I subscribed to the newsletter of any of the
company's or project's website but after some time I realized that the
information which is being shared in the newsletters is of less interest
for me or I am getting so many unwanted emails from the newsletter
subscription. At that point in time, it is good to have Unsubscribe link
available at the footer. I can help myself and can get unsubscribed from
the newsletter.

Thanks, Michael Brohl for working with infra and getting it removed.

--
Kind Regards,
Ashish Vijaywargiya
http://www.hotwaxsystems.com

On Thu, Jun 6, 2019 at 11:19 PM Mike <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I agree that there should be an unsubscribe link. I'm with Pierre.
>
> On Thu, Jun 6, 2019 at 5:23 AM Michael Brohl <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Thanks everyone,
> >
> > the footers are removed by Infra on my request (with apologies) with
> > reference to this discussion (see [1]).
> >
> > @Pierre: do you want to tell us why you think it's ok to act
> > independently of any community consensus or even discussion?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-18553
> >
> > Am 06.06.19 um 06:37 schrieb Swapnil M Mane:
> > > +1
> > >
> > >
> > > - Best Regards,
> > > Swapnil M Mane
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jun 5, 2019 at 5:58 PM Taher Alkhateeb <
> > [hidden email]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> I would recommend removing all footers from all emails. It's not worth
> > the
> > >> extra noise for the rare occasions of some individuals not wanting to
> > >> unsubscribe.
> > >>
> > >> I would also recommend that future actions with infra to be taken by a
> > PMC
> > >> member (after community approval) since they have access to necessary
> > >> resources and are hence best fit to guide infra on the needs of the
> > >> project.
> > >>
> > >> On Wed, Jun 5, 2019, 11:09 AM Michael Brohl <[hidden email]
> >
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Hi all,
> > >>>
> > >>> I've already informed Infra about this step taken without approvement
> > >>> from the community, see [1]
> > >>>
> > >>> Should I ask them to remove the footers?
> > >>>
> > >>> Thanks,
> > >>>
> > >>> Michael
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-18553
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Am 03.06.19 um 15:12 schrieb Michael Brohl:
> > >>>> I don't think that we need a technical enforcement, community code
> of
> > >>>> conduct should be enough.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I don't see a problem with a longer signature from newcomers here
> and
> > >>>> there, but those who participate more often should be able to
> create a
> > >>>> shot signature which does not pollute the mail threads.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Thanks,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Michael
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Am 03.06.19 um 13:11 schrieb Jacques Le Roux:
> > >>>>> +1
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> But I can't see a way to enforce that. Apart maybe asking infra,
> and
> > >>>>> even then not sure it makes sense for "external writers" who have
> > >>>>> those kinds of disclaimer messages at bottom
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Jacques
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Le 03/06/2019 à 12:36, Michael Brohl a écrit :
> > >>>>>> Good question, Taher.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> This was done without any envolvement of others. I think we should
> > >>>>>> have consensus before taking any action towards infra.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Personally, I am not in favor of having another/additional
> > >>>>>> signatures. In the contrary, I would like to see them reduced to 1
> > >>>>>> or two lines to make them more readable.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Some bad example with a content/noise ratio of 1:7 lines can be
> seen
> > >>>>>> below...
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Regards,
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Michael Brohl
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> ecomify GmbH - www.ecomify.de
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Am 03.06.19 um 12:24 schrieb Taher Alkhateeb:
> > >>>>>>> Why was this done without community agreement first?
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 3, 2019 at 8:59 AM Pierre Smits
> > >>>>>>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>> The unsubscribe footer is now in play for mail to [hidden email]
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Best regards,
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Pierre Smits
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>
> >
> >
>

Pierre Smits-3

Re: Unsubscribe footer

In reply to this post by Michael Brohl-3

First of all: IANAL, and for those who don't know what that means (or don't
do acronyms): I Am Not A Lawyer!

That being said, the question has been raised and needs to be answered: Why?

The answer to that question is simple when having the Apache Way and its
vernacular in mind:

I experienced an itch, and, per good old Apache custom, I scratched it.

I acted not only with the various anti-spam legislations in mind ([1] may
provide a good starting point).

Some here may see it ethically wrong, but it felt morally right.

[1]
https://litmus.com/blog/the-ultimate-guide-to-international-email-law-infographic

Best regards,

Pierre Smits

*Apache Trafodion <https://trafodion.apache.org>, Vice President*
*Apache Directory <https://directory.apache.org>, PMC Member*
Apache Incubator <https://incubator.apache.org>, committer
*Apache OFBiz <https://ofbiz.apache.org>, contributor (without privileges)
since 2008*
Apache Steve <https://steve.apache.org>, committer

On Thu, Jun 6, 2019 at 2:23 PM Michael Brohl <[hidden email]>
wrote:

Pierre Smits-3

Fwd: Unsubscribe footer

To keep everyone interested in the loop.

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Taher Alkhateeb <[hidden email]>
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2019 at 13:44
Subject: Re: Unsubscribe footer
To: Pierre Smits <[hidden email]>

Ignoring and disregarding community is neither an "Apache Way" nor "morally
right". When a community opposes something that someone did and their reply
is "I had an itch" it sends a message: I don't care what you think and I'm
not wrong.

Typical behavior, I'm not surprised.

On Fri, Jun 7, 2019, 12:44 PM Pierre Smits <[hidden email]> wrote:

> First of all: IANAL, and for those who don't know what that means (or don't
> do acronyms): I Am Not A Lawyer!
>
> That being said, the question has been raised and needs to be answered:
> Why?
>
> The answer to that question is simple when having the Apache Way and its
> vernacular in mind:
>
> I experienced an itch, and, per good old Apache custom, I scratched it.
>
>
> I acted not only with the various anti-spam legislations in mind ([1] may
> provide a good starting point).
>
> Some here may see it ethically wrong, but it felt morally right.
>
> [1]
>
> https://litmus.com/blog/the-ultimate-guide-to-international-email-law-infographic
>
> Best regards,
>
> Pierre Smits
>
> *Apache Trafodion <https://trafodion.apache.org>, Vice President*
> *Apache Directory <https://directory.apache.org>, PMC Member*
> Apache Incubator <https://incubator.apache.org>, committer
> *Apache OFBiz <https://ofbiz.apache.org>, contributor (without privileges)
> since 2008*
> Apache Steve <https://steve.apache.org>, committer

>
>
> On Thu, Jun 6, 2019 at 2:23 PM Michael Brohl <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Thanks everyone,
> >
> > the footers are removed by Infra on my request (with apologies) with
> > reference to this discussion (see [1]).
> >
> > @Pierre: do you want to tell us why you think it's ok to act
> > independently of any community consensus or even discussion?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-18553
> >
> > Am 06.06.19 um 06:37 schrieb Swapnil M Mane:
> > > +1
> > >
> > >
> > > - Best Regards,
> > > Swapnil M Mane
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jun 5, 2019 at 5:58 PM Taher Alkhateeb <
> > [hidden email]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> I would recommend removing all footers from all emails. It's not worth
> > the
> > >> extra noise for the rare occasions of some individuals not wanting to
> > >> unsubscribe.
> > >>
> > >> I would also recommend that future actions with infra to be taken by a
> > PMC
> > >> member (after community approval) since they have access to necessary
> > >> resources and are hence best fit to guide infra on the needs of the
> > >> project.
> > >>
> > >> On Wed, Jun 5, 2019, 11:09 AM Michael Brohl <[hidden email]
> >
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Hi all,
> > >>>
> > >>> I've already informed Infra about this step taken without approvement
> > >>> from the community, see [1]
> > >>>
> > >>> Should I ask them to remove the footers?
> > >>>
> > >>> Thanks,
> > >>>
> > >>> Michael
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-18553
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Am 03.06.19 um 15:12 schrieb Michael Brohl:
> > >>>> I don't think that we need a technical enforcement, community code
> of
> > >>>> conduct should be enough.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I don't see a problem with a longer signature from newcomers here
> and
> > >>>> there, but those who participate more often should be able to
> create a
> > >>>> shot signature which does not pollute the mail threads.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Thanks,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Michael
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Am 03.06.19 um 13:11 schrieb Jacques Le Roux:
> > >>>>> +1
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> But I can't see a way to enforce that. Apart maybe asking infra,
> and
> > >>>>> even then not sure it makes sense for "external writers" who have
> > >>>>> those kinds of disclaimer messages at bottom
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Jacques
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Le 03/06/2019 à 12:36, Michael Brohl a écrit :
> > >>>>>> Good question, Taher.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> This was done without any envolvement of others. I think we should
> > >>>>>> have consensus before taking any action towards infra.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Personally, I am not in favor of having another/additional
> > >>>>>> signatures. In the contrary, I would like to see them reduced to 1
> > >>>>>> or two lines to make them more readable.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Some bad example with a content/noise ratio of 1:7 lines can be
> seen
> > >>>>>> below...
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Regards,
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Michael Brohl
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> ecomify GmbH - www.ecomify.de
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Am 03.06.19 um 12:24 schrieb Taher Alkhateeb:
> > >>>>>>> Why was this done without community agreement first?
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 3, 2019 at 8:59 AM Pierre Smits
> > >>>>>>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>> The unsubscribe footer is now in play for mail to [hidden email]
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Best regards,
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Pierre Smits
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>
> >
> >
>

--
Sent from my phone

Michael Brohl-3

Re: Fwd: Unsubscribe footer

+1 for Taher's statement.

The Apache way is about community, discussion and consensus.

Not caring about the project's community opinion but simply forcing
through own ideas or acting on behalf of the project without any
legitimation is exactly the opposite.

Regards,

Michael

Am 07.06.19 um 13:48 schrieb Pierre Smits:

> To keep everyone interested in the loop.
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> From: Taher Alkhateeb <[hidden email]>
> Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2019 at 13:44
> Subject: Re: Unsubscribe footer
> To: Pierre Smits <[hidden email]>
>
>
> Ignoring and disregarding community is neither an "Apache Way" nor "morally
> right". When a community opposes something that someone did and their reply
> is "I had an itch" it sends a message: I don't care what you think and I'm
> not wrong.
>
> Typical behavior, I'm not surprised.
>
> On Fri, Jun 7, 2019, 12:44 PM Pierre Smits <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> First of all: IANAL, and for those who don't know what that means (or don't
>> do acronyms): I Am Not A Lawyer!
>>
>> That being said, the question has been raised and needs to be answered:
>> Why?
>>
>> The answer to that question is simple when having the Apache Way and its
>> vernacular in mind:
>>
>> I experienced an itch, and, per good old Apache custom, I scratched it.
>>
>>
>> I acted not only with the various anti-spam legislations in mind ([1] may
>> provide a good starting point).
>>
>> Some here may see it ethically wrong, but it felt morally right.
>>
>> [1]
>>
>> https://litmus.com/blog/the-ultimate-guide-to-international-email-law-infographic
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Pierre Smits
>>
>> *Apache Trafodion <https://trafodion.apache.org>, Vice President*
>> *Apache Directory <https://directory.apache.org>, PMC Member*
>> Apache Incubator <https://incubator.apache.org>, committer
>> *Apache OFBiz <https://ofbiz.apache.org>, contributor (without privileges)
>> since 2008*
>> Apache Steve <https://steve.apache.org>, committer
>
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 6, 2019 at 2:23 PM Michael Brohl <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks everyone,
>>>
>>> the footers are removed by Infra on my request (with apologies) with
>>> reference to this discussion (see [1]).
>>>
>>> @Pierre: do you want to tell us why you think it's ok to act
>>> independently of any community consensus or even discussion?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>
>>> [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-18553
>>>
>>> Am 06.06.19 um 06:37 schrieb Swapnil M Mane:
>>>> +1
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> - Best Regards,
>>>> Swapnil M Mane
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jun 5, 2019 at 5:58 PM Taher Alkhateeb <
>>> [hidden email]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I would recommend removing all footers from all emails. It's not worth
>>> the
>>>>> extra noise for the rare occasions of some individuals not wanting to
>>>>> unsubscribe.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would also recommend that future actions with infra to be taken by a
>>> PMC
>>>>> member (after community approval) since they have access to necessary
>>>>> resources and are hence best fit to guide infra on the needs of the
>>>>> project.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Jun 5, 2019, 11:09 AM Michael Brohl <[hidden email]
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've already informed Infra about this step taken without approvement
>>>>>> from the community, see [1]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Should I ask them to remove the footers?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Michael
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-18553
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Am 03.06.19 um 15:12 schrieb Michael Brohl:
>>>>>>> I don't think that we need a technical enforcement, community code
>> of
>>>>>>> conduct should be enough.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't see a problem with a longer signature from newcomers here
>> and
>>>>>>> there, but those who participate more often should be able to
>> create a
>>>>>>> shot signature which does not pollute the mail threads.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Michael
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Am 03.06.19 um 13:11 schrieb Jacques Le Roux:
>>>>>>>> +1
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But I can't see a way to enforce that. Apart maybe asking infra,
>> and
>>>>>>>> even then not sure it makes sense for "external writers" who have
>>>>>>>> those kinds of disclaimer messages at bottom
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Le 03/06/2019 à 12:36, Michael Brohl a écrit :
>>>>>>>>> Good question, Taher.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This was done without any envolvement of others. I think we should
>>>>>>>>> have consensus before taking any action towards infra.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Personally, I am not in favor of having another/additional
>>>>>>>>> signatures. In the contrary, I would like to see them reduced to 1
>>>>>>>>> or two lines to make them more readable.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Some bad example with a content/noise ratio of 1:7 lines can be
>> seen
>>>>>>>>> below...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Michael Brohl
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ecomify GmbH - www.ecomify.de
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Am 03.06.19 um 12:24 schrieb Taher Alkhateeb:
>>>>>>>>>> Why was this done without community agreement first?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 3, 2019 at 8:59 AM Pierre Smits
>>>>>>>>>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> The unsubscribe footer is now in play for mail to [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>

smime.p7s (5K) Download Attachment

OFBiz-5

Re: Fwd: Unsubscribe footer

In reply to this post by Pierre Smits-3

To whom it's sure to upset:

"Ignoring and disregarding community is neither an "Apache Way" nor
"morally right"."

Yes it is.

"When a community opposes something that someone did and their reply
is "I had an itch" it sends a message: I don't care what you think and I'm
not wrong."

Wow, clearly. Yep! Glad you got that.

OFBiz as a product, sucks. OFBiz as a project, is nowhere, and this is
why. The point of free and open software is that you do what you want
to with it.

Now, I do see a difference between the software, and the "community."
Operative word: community. But consensus is not the goal of community,
productive accomplishment is. This is a project to produce and support
OFBiz as a solution for accounting and resource management. Not
consensus. Consensus is not our goal, competent accounting and resource
management software is.

To loose your poop over the addition of a useful unsubscribe link in the
email footer, well, seems to me you're rejecting a good idea because
your fragile feelings are hurt.

You're embarrassing.

David Weeks
Information Developer

On 6/7/19 7:48 AM, Pierre Smits wrote: