Users - ASF Whaaa reply

[dkey]

Hi all,

 I won't any more time on posting Apache vs. MIT debates on the forum, but
I do want to read the article mentioned by Si Chen to possibly gain a new
perspective on the desire to switch license models as soon as possible in
order to find out what the hubbub is all about.

 I am just coming at this from (in my mind) a practical point of view. It
was mentioned that by being under the Apache umbrella we would attract
more experienced contributors or just more contributors as a result of
the change, therefore giving some contributors that now participate a
break. These contributors are free to do what they wish already, no one
is holding their feet to the fire, they most likely contribute out of
pure passion for programming or a passion for the project or some other
personal reason, so how would the ASF realy change anything in that
perspective? (reading between the lines here, please correct me if I am
mistaken).

 My contention is, if the contributors associated with ASF projects were
interested in the further development of OFBiz then they would already be
"on the bandwagon" by now. This theory is alluded to in one of the
replies to my post, as well as the fact that we see some dead ASF
projects out there as well as vibrantly evolving projects like Tomcat.

 -->QOUTE ?Alternatively, one could consider another type of project: look
at Tomcat. It was donated by Sun to the ASF for a number of reasons,
from an organization which already had the funds and setup to do its
own marketing and development without the ASF's help.?<--

 Let?s take a look at this statement and think on it a bit. I do not
believe we can use Tomcat as an example for comparison, although very
successful, it is a TOOL to deploy applications such as OFBiz and the
like. Sun also has other commercial application servers as well to
distribute and support to further the growth of the company (hopefully
lots of growth, I just sold all my Cisco stock for Sun). In my humble
opinion OFBiz does not fit into the same category as Tomcat, Ant, Maven
and so on. OFBiz is an entirely different animal, so these issues might
be something to consider when we think of spending resources and time
with the hopes of ?gaining mindshare? and ?emergent opportunities?. It
appears to me that there is not much guarantee for ROI here considering
the time needed to convert to Apache 2.0. please take a look at the high
profile customers who already use OFBiz as I stated before, the big time
is just around the corner (I believe).

 It already makes me want to bite my own leg off in regards to people who
have branched out and made GPL offshoots of OFBiz, although those who
have engaged in those projects have committed quite a bit back to the
community, why would you even branch out and change the creators vision
of a project and modify the way that it is be distributed instead of
contributing all of your changes back to OFBIZ if you want to post them
to a project!.... Sorry Big thorn in my side :(

These are just my opinions and I thought that I would share them with
everyone to ponder on in good spirit, and I write them with the greatest
of respect for all involved with OFBiz and the sub projects as well.

Dale Key

 
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[David E. Jones]

On Dec 8, 2005, at 7:25 PM, [hidden email] wrote:

>  I am just coming at this from (in my mind) a practical point of  
> view. It
> was mentioned that by being under the Apache umbrella we would attract
> more experienced contributors or just more contributors as a result of
> the change, therefore giving some contributors that now participate a
> break. These contributors are free to do what they wish already, no  
> one
> is holding their feet to the fire, they most likely contribute out of
> pure passion for programming or a passion for the project or some  
> other
> personal reason, so how would the ASF realy change anything in that
> perspective? (reading between the lines here, please correct me if  
> I am
> mistaken).

In a way this is true, but for the most part it is secondary to the  
motivation that I think drives this project. OFBiz is sufficiently  
complex that it is almost impossible to participate and really work  
on the software in anything less than a full-time capacity. I think  
everyone in the core team of OFBiz right now is to some extent basing  
their personal income and maintenance on OFBiz-related efforts.

So, technically no there is no one holding my feet to the fire...  
except an ex-wife, half a dozen credit card companies and other  
banks, a landlord, and so on. ;)

Naturally to stick with something like this long enough to be  
effective it does require some passion for it, but I don't think any  
of us is lucky enough for that to be a sufficient motivation to allow  
us to be here.

>  My contention is, if the contributors associated with ASF projects  
> were
> interested in the further development of OFBiz then they would  
> already be
> "on the bandwagon" by now. This theory is alluded to in one of the
> replies to my post, as well as the fact that we see some dead ASF
> projects out there as well as vibrantly evolving projects like Tomcat.

This is a good point, though the interesting part is that this is  
already the case. In fact, it is just these people that are  
affiliated with ASF and interested in OFBiz (or doing projects based  
on it) that are helping push this forward. Will it attract more  
developers? Who knows... I think it will increase exposure and  
credibility and those who are interested but just didn't know it  
before may very well start doing OFBiz-based projects and then  
eventually move into a more serious contributing role.

> It already makes me want to bite my own leg off in regards to  
> people who
> have branched out and made GPL offshoots of OFBiz, although those who
> have engaged in those projects have committed quite a bit back to the
> community, why would you even branch out and change the creators  
> vision
> of a project and modify the way that it is be distributed instead of
> contributing all of your changes back to OFBIZ if you want to post  
> them
> to a project!.... Sorry Big thorn in my side :(

I totally agree that this sort of thing is not ideal, but it is also  
something that we want to allow. At least they are contributing back  
to the project and helping with certain things, and without their GPL-
based derivative work they may not be involved with the project at  
all. So, I still appreciate their contributions in spite of still  
believing that this is not only less useful to OFBiz, but will also  
eventually turn out to be more expensive and less profitable than  
joining with the community here.... Naturally only time will tell  
though. In the mean time, I'm grateful for whatever help we can get.

Thanks for your comments, I'm glad to see there is interest and  
thought about these things...

-David



 
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