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Ian Gilbert-2

Users - Auto approving Credit Card orders ...

What is the rationale behind auto approving orders taken with payment made by credit card? Whilst
I can understand that the actual payment might be approved surely this approval process is an
internal one and so should wait until the actual order is approved rather than the payment?

Ian Gilbert
www.ethicalshopper.net
Fair trade: the alternative choice for your everyday shopping
0845 456 2429

WHAT DO YOU DRINK AT WORK?
We can supply your organisation with high quality fair trade tea and
coffee. Discounts are available for regular orders. Contact us for more
details.

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BJ Freeman

Re: Users - Auto approving Credit Card orders ...

In the US, an authorization is gotten to see if the order is valid and
get back the AVS status. There is a lot of fraud.
I have added statuses and rules to evaluate the AVS. the order is put on
hold if the order does not pass these rules. it is sent to the work
effort to be evaluated. Though some clients have local inventory, the
charge happens when they ship, the Dropship orders, are charge immediately.

I would say the original thinking was to put something in place then let
the developer expand on it.

Ian Gilbert sent the following on 3/31/06 2:07 AM:

> What is the rationale behind auto approving orders taken with payment made by credit card? Whilst
> I can understand that the actual payment might be approved surely this approval process is an
> internal one and so should wait until the actual order is approved rather than the payment?
>
>
> Ian Gilbert
> www.ethicalshopper.net
> Fair trade: the alternative choice for your everyday shopping
> 0845 456 2429
>
> WHAT DO YOU DRINK AT WORK?
> We can supply your organisation with high quality fair trade tea and
> coffee. Discounts are available for regular orders. Contact us for more
> details.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>

_______________________________________________
Users mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users

David E. Jones

Re: Users - Auto approving Credit Card orders ...

In reply to this post by Ian Gilbert-2

Ian,

Most retailers don't want to have an order approval process that adds
another step to what is necessary for fulfillment. There are of course
exceptions to this, which is why we created to order approval workflow a
long time ago (and this is still in place and should still work, though
I don't know if anyone has used it in a while...).

Even for wholesale to more generally sales to businesses where prices
are custom to the order the price is usually decided on by the company.
This can be done by an employee using the Order Manager to enter an
order (from scratch or based on a quote or whatever), or by an employee
creating a quote for a customer that the customer can then accept on the
ecommerce site, placing an order without being able to change
quantities, etc.

Is there a specific approval process that you need to cover?

-David

Ian Gilbert wrote:

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Ian Gilbert-2

Re: Users - Auto approving Credit Card orders ...

Hi David,

Although originally we used Worldpay where a callback could 'Approve' the order, we have now moved
to manual processing of credit cards as we have the facilities and it saves us money. This means
that the order still has to go through this stage which would ordinarily have been automated.
Whilst this isn't really a big deal it would be better for us if all the different payment
mechanisms worked in the same way so I'm wondering if there is a way of easily switching off the
auto approve process for credit cards? Otherwise we can change our processes here which probably
makes more sense.

Best wishes

Ian

On Fri, March 31, 2006 23:38, David E Jones wrote:
>

> Ian,
>
>
> Most retailers don't want to have an order approval process that adds
> another step to what is necessary for fulfillment. There are of course exceptions to this, which is
> why we created to order approval workflow a long time ago (and this is still in place and should
> still work, though I don't know if anyone has used it in a while...).
>
>
> Even for wholesale to more generally sales to businesses where prices
> are custom to the order the price is usually decided on by the company. This can be done by an
> employee using the Order Manager to enter an order (from scratch or based on a quote or whatever),
> or by an employee creating a quote for a customer that the customer can then accept on the
> ecommerce site, placing an order without being able to change quantities, etc.
>
> Is there a specific approval process that you need to cover?
>
>
> -David
>
>
>
> Ian Gilbert wrote:
>
>> What is the rationale behind auto approving orders taken with payment made by credit card?
>> Whilst
>> I can understand that the actual payment might be approved surely this approval process is an
>> internal one and so should wait until the actual order is approved rather than the payment?
>>
>>
>> Ian Gilbert
>> www.ethicalshopper.net Fair trade: the alternative choice for your everyday shopping
>> 0845 456 2429
>>
>>
>> WHAT DO YOU DRINK AT WORK?
>> We can supply your organisation with high quality fair trade tea and
>> coffee. Discounts are available for regular orders. Contact us for more details.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>
>

--
Ian Gilbert
www.ethicalshopper.net
Fair trade: the alternative choice for your everyday shopping
0845 456 2429

WHAT DO YOU DRINK AT WORK?
We can supply your organisation with high quality fair trade tea and
coffee. Discounts are available for regular orders. Contact us for more
details.

_______________________________________________
Users mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users

Ian Gilbert-2

Re: Users - Auto approving Credit Card orders ...

In reply to this post by David E. Jones

Hi again,

I'm interested in hearing about the order approval workflow. Is that edited through the
OrderProcessxpdl.xml file? Also the process of an employee creating a quote may well be of
interest. I will investigate that further but any information that I can get about the order
approval workflow (specifically how to view and edit it) would be helpful.

Very best wishes

Ian

On Fri, March 31, 2006 23:38, David E Jones wrote:
>

David E. Jones

Re: Users - Auto approving Credit Card orders ...

In reply to this post by Ian Gilbert-2

For credit cards the auto-approve will only happen if the authorization succeeds. Of course, if it is setup to use the dummy authorization this will always succeed.

The trick is that if the authorization fails then the order will be canceled. There are payment methods that support off-line payment and such, but if you want to require them to enter a credit card then you'll probably have to make some code changes.

Note that the downside of not doing automated credit card processing is that you can't authorize the card when the order is placed, so you have no idea if the card is good or not. For the fulfillment process this gets in some shady areas because when you run the card manually you generally authorize and capture at the same time, and then if you don't have it "packed" you are technically breaking credit card usage rules for sales that are shipped to the customer.

-David

Ian Gilbert wrote:

> Hi David,
>
> Although originally we used Worldpay where a callback could 'Approve' the order, we have now moved
> to manual processing of credit cards as we have the facilities and it saves us money. This means
> that the order still has to go through this stage which would ordinarily have been automated.
> Whilst this isn't really a big deal it would be better for us if all the different payment
> mechanisms worked in the same way so I'm wondering if there is a way of easily switching off the
> auto approve process for credit cards? Otherwise we can change our processes here which probably
> makes more sense.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Ian
>
> On Fri, March 31, 2006 23:38, David E Jones wrote:
>
>> Ian,
>>
>>
>> Most retailers don't want to have an order approval process that adds
>> another step to what is necessary for fulfillment. There are of course exceptions to this, which is
>> why we created to order approval workflow a long time ago (and this is still in place and should
>> still work, though I don't know if anyone has used it in a while...).
>>
>>
>> Even for wholesale to more generally sales to businesses where prices
>> are custom to the order the price is usually decided on by the company. This can be done by an
>> employee using the Order Manager to enter an order (from scratch or based on a quote or whatever),
>> or by an employee creating a quote for a customer that the customer can then accept on the
>> ecommerce site, placing an order without being able to change quantities, etc.
>>
>> Is there a specific approval process that you need to cover?
>>
>>
>> -David
>>
>>
>>
>> Ian Gilbert wrote:
>>
>>> What is the rationale behind auto approving orders taken with payment made by credit card?
>>> Whilst
>>> I can understand that the actual payment might be approved surely this approval process is an
>>> internal one and so should wait until the actual order is approved rather than the payment?
>>>
>>>
>>> Ian Gilbert
>>> www.ethicalshopper.net Fair trade: the alternative choice for your everyday shopping
>>> 0845 456 2429
>>>
>>>
>>> WHAT DO YOU DRINK AT WORK?
>>> We can supply your organisation with high quality fair trade tea and
>>> coffee. Discounts are available for regular orders. Contact us for more details.
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Users mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>>
>>
>
>

_______________________________________________
Users mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users

David E. Jones

Re: Users - Auto approving Credit Card orders ...

In reply to this post by Ian Gilbert-2

This is not an easy thing... I would look at the Workflow Engine Guide on the ofbiz.org site, and the stuff it refers to on the WfMC site. Right now this is not all that easy to work with... which is why we have started moving to Shark.

-David

Ian Gilbert wrote:

> Hi again,
>
> I'm interested in hearing about the order approval workflow. Is that edited through the
> OrderProcessxpdl.xml file? Also the process of an employee creating a quote may well be of
> interest. I will investigate that further but any information that I can get about the order
> approval workflow (specifically how to view and edit it) would be helpful.
>
> Very best wishes
>
> Ian
>
> On Fri, March 31, 2006 23:38, David E Jones wrote:
>
>> Ian,
>>
>>
>> Most retailers don't want to have an order approval process that adds
>> another step to what is necessary for fulfillment. There are of course exceptions to this, which is
>> why we created to order approval workflow a long time ago (and this is still in place and should
>> still work, though I don't know if anyone has used it in a while...).
>>
>>
>> Even for wholesale to more generally sales to businesses where prices
>> are custom to the order the price is usually decided on by the company. This can be done by an
>> employee using the Order Manager to enter an order (from scratch or based on a quote or whatever),
>> or by an employee creating a quote for a customer that the customer can then accept on the
>> ecommerce site, placing an order without being able to change quantities, etc.
>>
>> Is there a specific approval process that you need to cover?
>>
>>
>> -David
>>
>>
>>
>> Ian Gilbert wrote:
>>
>>> What is the rationale behind auto approving orders taken with payment made by credit card?
>>> Whilst
>>> I can understand that the actual payment might be approved surely this approval process is an
>>> internal one and so should wait until the actual order is approved rather than the payment?
>>>
>>>
>>> Ian Gilbert
>>> www.ethicalshopper.net Fair trade: the alternative choice for your everyday shopping
>>> 0845 456 2429
>>>
>>>
>>> WHAT DO YOU DRINK AT WORK?
>>> We can supply your organisation with high quality fair trade tea and
>>> coffee. Discounts are available for regular orders. Contact us for more details.
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Users mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>>
>>
>
>

_______________________________________________
Users mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users

Ian Gilbert-2

Re: Users - Auto approving Credit Card orders ...

Ok. I'll leave it then for the time being and maybe look at shark later on.

Thanks

Ian

On Sat, April 1, 2006 19:25, David E. Jones wrote:
>

> This is not an easy thing... I would look at the Workflow Engine Guide on the ofbiz.org site, and
> the stuff it refers to on the WfMC site. Right now this is not all that easy to work with...
> which is why we have started moving to Shark.
>
> -David
>
>
>
> Ian Gilbert wrote:
>
>> Hi again,
>>
>>
>> I'm interested in hearing about the order approval workflow. Is that edited through the
>> OrderProcessxpdl.xml file? Also the process of an employee creating a quote may well be of
>> interest. I will investigate that further but any information that I can get about the order
>> approval workflow (specifically how to view and edit it) would be helpful.
>>
>> Very best wishes
>>
>>
>> Ian
>>
>>
>> On Fri, March 31, 2006 23:38, David E Jones wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Ian,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Most retailers don't want to have an order approval process that adds
>>> another step to what is necessary for fulfillment. There are of course exceptions to this,
>>> which is why we created to order approval workflow a long time ago (and this is still in place
>>> and should still work, though I don't know if anyone has used it in a while...).
>>>
>>>
>>> Even for wholesale to more generally sales to businesses where prices
>>> are custom to the order the price is usually decided on by the company. This can be done by an
>>> employee using the Order Manager to enter an order (from scratch or based on a quote or
>>> whatever), or by an employee creating a quote for a customer that the customer can then accept
>>> on the ecommerce site, placing an order without being able to change quantities, etc.
>>>
>>> Is there a specific approval process that you need to cover?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -David
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Ian Gilbert wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> What is the rationale behind auto approving orders taken with payment made by credit card?
>>>> Whilst
>>>> I can understand that the actual payment might be approved surely this approval process is
>>>> an internal one and so should wait until the actual order is approved rather than the
>>>> payment?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ian Gilbert
>>>> www.ethicalshopper.net Fair trade: the alternative choice for your everyday shopping 0845 456
>>>> 2429
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> WHAT DO YOU DRINK AT WORK?
>>>> We can supply your organisation with high quality fair trade tea and
>>>> coffee. Discounts are available for regular orders. Contact us for more details.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Users mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Users mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>
>

Ian Gilbert-2

Re: Users - Auto approving Credit Card orders ...

In reply to this post by David E. Jones

Thanks David, This is very interesting. We have a credit card machine and have had problems with
merchant service providers in the past and so I want to keep that part of the process manual until
such a time as sufficient resources can be brought to bear to resolve it.

I will investigate this a little further. We telephone new accounts who order by credit card
anyway and so pick up most fraud that way. It's not too scaleable but we have plenty of people
involved so it's possible.

Thanks and best wishes

Ian

On Sat, April 1, 2006 19:23, David E. Jones wrote:
>

> For credit cards the auto-approve will only happen if the authorization succeeds. Of course, if
> it is setup to use the dummy authorization this will always succeed.
>
> The trick is that if the authorization fails then the order will be canceled. There are payment
> methods that support off-line payment and such, but if you want to require them to enter a credit
> card then you'll probably have to make some code changes.
>
> Note that the downside of not doing automated credit card processing is that you can't authorize
> the card when the order is placed, so you have no idea if the card is good or not. For the
> fulfillment process this gets in some shady areas because when you run the card manually you
> generally authorize and capture at the same time, and then if you don't have it "packed" you are
> technically breaking credit card usage rules for sales that are shipped to the customer.
>
> -David
>
>
>
> Ian Gilbert wrote:
>
>> Hi David,
>>
>>
>> Although originally we used Worldpay where a callback could 'Approve' the order, we have now
>> moved to manual processing of credit cards as we have the facilities and it saves us money.
>> This means
>> that the order still has to go through this stage which would ordinarily have been automated.
>> Whilst this isn't really a big deal it would be better for us if all the different payment
>> mechanisms worked in the same way so I'm wondering if there is a way of easily switching off the
>> auto approve process for credit cards? Otherwise we can change our processes here which
>> probably makes more sense.
>>
>> Best wishes
>>
>>
>> Ian
>>
>>
>> On Fri, March 31, 2006 23:38, David E Jones wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Ian,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Most retailers don't want to have an order approval process that adds
>>> another step to what is necessary for fulfillment. There are of course exceptions to this,
>>> which is why we created to order approval workflow a long time ago (and this is still in place
>>> and should still work, though I don't know if anyone has used it in a while...).
>>>
>>>
>>> Even for wholesale to more generally sales to businesses where prices
>>> are custom to the order the price is usually decided on by the company. This can be done by an
>>> employee using the Order Manager to enter an order (from scratch or based on a quote or
>>> whatever), or by an employee creating a quote for a customer that the customer can then accept
>>> on the ecommerce site, placing an order without being able to change quantities, etc.
>>>
>>> Is there a specific approval process that you need to cover?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -David
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Ian Gilbert wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> What is the rationale behind auto approving orders taken with payment made by credit card?
>>>> Whilst
>>>> I can understand that the actual payment might be approved surely this approval process is
>>>> an internal one and so should wait until the actual order is approved rather than the
>>>> payment?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ian Gilbert
>>>> www.ethicalshopper.net Fair trade: the alternative choice for your everyday shopping 0845 456
>>>> 2429
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> WHAT DO YOU DRINK AT WORK?
>>>> We can supply your organisation with high quality fair trade tea and
>>>> coffee. Discounts are available for regular orders. Contact us for more details.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Users mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Users mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>
>

Ian Gilbert-2

Re: Users - Auto approving Credit Card orders ...

In reply to this post by David E. Jones

In fact we are definitely going to need this to succeed. One of the problems we had with Worldpay
was that the callback never worked properly and so all our orders were cancelled after a couple of
weeks which caused problems with customers. Do you know if these code changes will be
substantial? I'm working with my colleague who is a much more capable developer but has only a
short time available atm.

Do you know where we would set either the dummy authorisation or where we should start looking to
make the code changes? Ideally we would be able to manually authorise this as we do with the
other payment methods.

Thanks

Ian

On Sat, April 1, 2006 19:23, David E. Jones wrote:
>

David E. Jones

Re: Users - Auto approving Credit Card orders ...

>From here things get very messy... It's no longer a 10 minute answer so I can't really look into it right now, but to make things more fun...

If you are using Sequoia 0.8.3 and make the change against that code base you could try to contribute it there, but I'm not sure how Si wants to manage enhancements to those versions.

To get it into the main OFBiz code base it would have to go against the latest revision, which may not be too difficult but there are no doubt changes that would require extra work to move it up...

-David

Ian Gilbert wrote:

> In fact we are definitely going to need this to succeed. One of the problems we had with Worldpay
> was that the callback never worked properly and so all our orders were cancelled after a couple of
> weeks which caused problems with customers. Do you know if these code changes will be
> substantial? I'm working with my colleague who is a much more capable developer but has only a
> short time available atm.
>
> Do you know where we would set either the dummy authorisation or where we should start looking to
> make the code changes? Ideally we would be able to manually authorise this as we do with the
> other payment methods.
>
> Thanks
>
> Ian
>
>
> On Sat, April 1, 2006 19:23, David E. Jones wrote:
>
>> For credit cards the auto-approve will only happen if the authorization succeeds. Of course, if
>> it is setup to use the dummy authorization this will always succeed.
>>
>> The trick is that if the authorization fails then the order will be canceled. There are payment
>> methods that support off-line payment and such, but if you want to require them to enter a credit
>> card then you'll probably have to make some code changes.
>>
>> Note that the downside of not doing automated credit card processing is that you can't authorize
>> the card when the order is placed, so you have no idea if the card is good or not. For the
>> fulfillment process this gets in some shady areas because when you run the card manually you
>> generally authorize and capture at the same time, and then if you don't have it "packed" you are
>> technically breaking credit card usage rules for sales that are shipped to the customer.
>>
>> -David
>>
>>
>>
>> Ian Gilbert wrote:
>>
>>> Hi David,
>>>
>>>
>>> Although originally we used Worldpay where a callback could 'Approve' the order, we have now
>>> moved to manual processing of credit cards as we have the facilities and it saves us money.
>>> This means
>>> that the order still has to go through this stage which would ordinarily have been automated.
>>> Whilst this isn't really a big deal it would be better for us if all the different payment
>>> mechanisms worked in the same way so I'm wondering if there is a way of easily switching off the
>>> auto approve process for credit cards? Otherwise we can change our processes here which
>>> probably makes more sense.
>>>
>>> Best wishes
>>>
>>>
>>> Ian
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, March 31, 2006 23:38, David E Jones wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Ian,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Most retailers don't want to have an order approval process that adds
>>>> another step to what is necessary for fulfillment. There are of course exceptions to this,
>>>> which is why we created to order approval workflow a long time ago (and this is still in place
>>>> and should still work, though I don't know if anyone has used it in a while...).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Even for wholesale to more generally sales to businesses where prices
>>>> are custom to the order the price is usually decided on by the company. This can be done by an
>>>> employee using the Order Manager to enter an order (from scratch or based on a quote or
>>>> whatever), or by an employee creating a quote for a customer that the customer can then accept
>>>> on the ecommerce site, placing an order without being able to change quantities, etc.
>>>>
>>>> Is there a specific approval process that you need to cover?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -David
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ian Gilbert wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> What is the rationale behind auto approving orders taken with payment made by credit card?
>>>>> Whilst
>>>>> I can understand that the actual payment might be approved surely this approval process is
>>>>> an internal one and so should wait until the actual order is approved rather than the
>>>>> payment?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ian Gilbert
>>>>> www.ethicalshopper.net Fair trade: the alternative choice for your everyday shopping 0845 456
>>>>> 2429
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> WHAT DO YOU DRINK AT WORK?
>>>>> We can supply your organisation with high quality fair trade tea and
>>>>> coffee. Discounts are available for regular orders. Contact us for more details.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Users mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Users mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>>
>>
>
>

_______________________________________________
Users mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users