Users - tax functionality
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David, Jacopo,
i had a quick look at the new tax functionality and the page in the wiki but could not see if it can be used to automatically calculate sales tax on an invoice for customers in a certain geolocation I need to specify 19% sales tax on the total invoice for every customer in the Netherlands. Will there be an extra invoice item added for this purpose? When possible can you give me a few lines explanation how to do that? Regards, Hans Bakker ANT Websystems Co.,Ltd (http://www.antwebsystems.com) If you want to verify that this message really originates from from the above person, download the public key from: http://www.antwebsystems.com/hbakkerAntwebsystems.asc _______________________________________________ Users mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users |
Re: Users - tax functionality
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Hi Hans,
unfortunately I have not still implemented this. The idea (as suggested by David Jones) is to add a flag in the TaxAuthority entity to specify if the tax should be applied to the invoice total or to each invoice items (as is now). There is a quick way to implement the calculation: 1) leave the sales tax adjustments as are now, i.e. one adjustment for each order/invoice item 2) in the order/invoice reports, hide the item adjustments and show only the total sales tax at the end of the report 3) in this way there could be approx errors (a sales tax amount calculated as a percentage of an invoice total could be slightly different from a sales tax amount calculated as the sum of the sales tax amounts of each item); to solve this, in the createInvoiceForOrder service, we could create an offsetting adjustment to fix the approx errors. What do you all think of this? Jacopo Hans Bakker wrote: > David, Jacopo, > > i had a quick look at the new tax functionality and the page in the wiki but > could not see if it can be used to automatically calculate sales tax on an > invoice for customers in a certain geolocation > > I need to specify 19% sales tax on the total invoice for every customer in the > Netherlands. Will there be an extra invoice item added for this purpose? > > When possible can you give me a few lines explanation how to do > that? > > Regards, > Hans Bakker > ANT Websystems Co.,Ltd (http://www.antwebsystems.com) > > If you want to verify that this message really originates from > from the above person, download the public key from: > http://www.antwebsystems.com/hbakkerAntwebsystems.asc > > _______________________________________________ > Users mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users > _______________________________________________ Users mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users |
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Hi Jacopo
I think we may be a better way of going about this... Is there anyone who ever needs the tax calculations broken out? Although the software currently calculates tax on an item by item basis, I do not believe that this is standard practice, even in the United States. Instead, could the functionality be changed to perform the aggregated tax calculations universally, as I believe that this is also an acceptable way of calculating taxes in the United States? Thanks Daniel On Tue, 2006-04-11 at 11:38 +0200, Jacopo Cappellato wrote: > Hi Hans, > > unfortunately I have not still implemented this. > The idea (as suggested by David Jones) is to add a flag in the > TaxAuthority entity to specify if the tax should be applied to the > invoice total or to each invoice items (as is now). > > There is a quick way to implement the calculation: > 1) leave the sales tax adjustments as are now, i.e. one adjustment for > each order/invoice item > 2) in the order/invoice reports, hide the item adjustments and show only > the total sales tax at the end of the report > 3) in this way there could be approx errors (a sales tax amount > calculated as a percentage of an invoice total could be slightly > different from a sales tax amount calculated as the sum of the sales tax > amounts of each item); to solve this, in the createInvoiceForOrder > service, we could create an offsetting adjustment to fix the approx errors. > > What do you all think of this? > > Jacopo > > > > Hans Bakker wrote: > > David, Jacopo, > > > > i had a quick look at the new tax functionality and the page in the wiki but > > could not see if it can be used to automatically calculate sales tax on an > > invoice for customers in a certain geolocation > > > > I need to specify 19% sales tax on the total invoice for every customer in the > > Netherlands. Will there be an extra invoice item added for this purpose? > > > > When possible can you give me a few lines explanation how to do > > that? > > > > Regards, > > Hans Bakker > > ANT Websystems Co.,Ltd (http://www.antwebsystems.com) > > > > If you want to verify that this message really originates from > > from the above person, download the public key from: > > http://www.antwebsystems.com/hbakkerAntwebsystems.asc > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Users mailing list > > [hidden email] > > http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Users mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users Daniel *-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*- Have a GREAT Day! Daniel Kunkel [hidden email] BioWaves, LLC http://www.BioWaves.com 14150 NE 20th St. Suite F1 Bellevue, WA 98007 800-734-3588 425-895-0050 http://www.Apartment-Pets.com http://www.Focus-Illusion.com http://www.Brain-Fun.com http://www.ColorGlasses.com *-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*- _______________________________________________ Users mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users |
Re: Users - tax functionality
Administrator
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel Kunkel" <[hidden email]> > Hi Jacopo > > I think we may be a better way of going about this... Is there anyone > who ever needs the tax calculations broken out? > > Although the software currently calculates tax on an item by item basis, > I do not believe that this is standard practice, even in the United > States. > > Instead, could the functionality be changed to perform the aggregated > tax calculations universally, as I believe that this is also an > acceptable way of calculating taxes in the United States? > > Thanks > > Daniel Daniel, I'm no sure of that, as for example here in France (and I know it's the same at least in England and Finland) we may have several tax rates (may be differents per products). For example it' not the same ratio for Computer (19.6%) and book (5.5%) ... Jaques > > On Tue, 2006-04-11 at 11:38 +0200, Jacopo Cappellato wrote: > > Hi Hans, > > > > unfortunately I have not still implemented this. > > The idea (as suggested by David Jones) is to add a flag in the > > TaxAuthority entity to specify if the tax should be applied to the > > invoice total or to each invoice items (as is now). > > > > There is a quick way to implement the calculation: > > 1) leave the sales tax adjustments as are now, i.e. one adjustment for > > each order/invoice item > > 2) in the order/invoice reports, hide the item adjustments and show only > > the total sales tax at the end of the report > > 3) in this way there could be approx errors (a sales tax amount > > calculated as a percentage of an invoice total could be slightly > > different from a sales tax amount calculated as the sum of the sales tax > > amounts of each item); to solve this, in the createInvoiceForOrder > > service, we could create an offsetting adjustment to fix the approx errors. > > > > What do you all think of this? > > > > Jacopo > > > > > > > > Hans Bakker wrote: > > > David, Jacopo, > > > > > > i had a quick look at the new tax functionality and the page in the wiki > > > could not see if it can be used to automatically calculate sales tax on an > > > invoice for customers in a certain geolocation > > > > > > I need to specify 19% sales tax on the total invoice for every customer in the > > > Netherlands. Will there be an extra invoice item added for this purpose? > > > > > > When possible can you give me a few lines explanation how to do > > > that? > > > > > > Regards, > > > Hans Bakker > > > ANT Websystems Co.,Ltd (http://www.antwebsystems.com) > > > > > > If you want to verify that this message really originates from > > > from the above person, download the public key from: > > > http://www.antwebsystems.com/hbakkerAntwebsystems.asc > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Users mailing list > > > [hidden email] > > > http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Users mailing list > > [hidden email] > > http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users > -- > Daniel > > *-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*- > Have a GREAT Day! > > Daniel Kunkel [hidden email] > BioWaves, LLC http://www.BioWaves.com > 14150 NE 20th St. Suite F1 > Bellevue, WA 98007 > 800-734-3588 425-895-0050 > http://www.Apartment-Pets.com http://www.Focus-Illusion.com > http://www.Brain-Fun.com http://www.ColorGlasses.com > *-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*- > > > _______________________________________________ > Users mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users _______________________________________________ Users mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users |
Re: Users - Users - tax functionality
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In reply to this post by Daniel Kunkel
Hi,
It seems that there are certain locations, such as Germany, where is a common practice to apply the overall sales tax on an order/ invoice based on the "main" product/ line item in the transaction. The "main" product is not necessary the most expensive one. For example, if you have an order like 1. Item A 50 euro 2. Accesory to Item A 20 euro 3. Service fees for Item A 60 euro and VAT for item A is X% while VAT for Service fees is Y%, then - somehow in an arbitrary way - apply X% tax to the whole order. We had the explicit requirement to implement such functionality for our client but we've managed to convince him that calculating taxes by line items is also acceptable from the German accountants point of view. The client wasn't happy but accepted the solution. We found it's easier to make the client change his mind then making the OfBiz adjustments for dealing with such business logic. Cezar Daniel Kunkel wrote: > Hi Jacopo > > I think we may be a better way of going about this... Is there anyone > who ever needs the tax calculations broken out? > > Although the software currently calculates tax on an item by item basis, > I do not believe that this is standard practice, even in the United > States. > > Instead, could the functionality be changed to perform the aggregated > tax calculations universally, as I believe that this is also an > acceptable way of calculating taxes in the United States? > > Thanks > > Daniel > > > On Tue, 2006-04-11 at 11:38 +0200, Jacopo Cappellato wrote: > >>Hi Hans, >> >>unfortunately I have not still implemented this. >>The idea (as suggested by David Jones) is to add a flag in the >>TaxAuthority entity to specify if the tax should be applied to the >>invoice total or to each invoice items (as is now). >> >>There is a quick way to implement the calculation: >>1) leave the sales tax adjustments as are now, i.e. one adjustment for >>each order/invoice item >>2) in the order/invoice reports, hide the item adjustments and show only >>the total sales tax at the end of the report >>3) in this way there could be approx errors (a sales tax amount >>calculated as a percentage of an invoice total could be slightly >>different from a sales tax amount calculated as the sum of the sales tax >>amounts of each item); to solve this, in the createInvoiceForOrder >>service, we could create an offsetting adjustment to fix the approx errors. >> >>What do you all think of this? >> >>Jacopo >> >> >> >>Hans Bakker wrote: >> >>>David, Jacopo, >>> >>>i had a quick look at the new tax functionality and the page in the wiki but >>>could not see if it can be used to automatically calculate sales tax on an >>>invoice for customers in a certain geolocation >>> >>>I need to specify 19% sales tax on the total invoice for every customer in the >>>Netherlands. Will there be an extra invoice item added for this purpose? >>> >>>When possible can you give me a few lines explanation how to do >>>that? >>> >>>Regards, >>>Hans Bakker >>>ANT Websystems Co.,Ltd (http://www.antwebsystems.com) >>> >>>If you want to verify that this message really originates from >>>from the above person, download the public key from: >>>http://www.antwebsystems.com/hbakkerAntwebsystems.asc >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Users mailing list >>>[hidden email] >>>http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users >>> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Users mailing list >>[hidden email] >>http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users _______________________________________________ Users mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users |
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In reply to this post by Daniel Kunkel
The UK certainly does require the breakdown, this being an extract from
d'rules:- 16.3.1 General VAT invoices must show: · an identifying number; · your name, address and VAT registration number; · the time of supply (tax point); · date of issue (if different to the time of supply); · your customer’s name (or trading name) and address; · the type of supply (see 16.3.2 below); and · a description which identifies the goods or services supplied. For each description, you must show: · the quantity of goods or extent of the services; · the charge made, excluding VAT; · the rate of VAT; · the total charge made, excluding VAT; · the rate of any cash discount offered; · each rate of VAT charged and the amount of VAT charged at each rate and shown in sterling; and · the total amount of VAT charged, shown in sterling. Ray Daniel Kunkel wrote: >Hi Jacopo > >I think we may be a better way of going about this... Is there anyone >who ever needs the tax calculations broken out? > >Although the software currently calculates tax on an item by item basis, >I do not believe that this is standard practice, even in the United >States. > >Instead, could the functionality be changed to perform the aggregated >tax calculations universally, as I believe that this is also an >acceptable way of calculating taxes in the United States? > >Thanks > >Daniel > > >On Tue, 2006-04-11 at 11:38 +0200, Jacopo Cappellato wrote: > > >>Hi Hans, >> >>unfortunately I have not still implemented this. >>The idea (as suggested by David Jones) is to add a flag in the >>TaxAuthority entity to specify if the tax should be applied to the >>invoice total or to each invoice items (as is now). >> >>There is a quick way to implement the calculation: >>1) leave the sales tax adjustments as are now, i.e. one adjustment for >>each order/invoice item >>2) in the order/invoice reports, hide the item adjustments and show only >>the total sales tax at the end of the report >>3) in this way there could be approx errors (a sales tax amount >>calculated as a percentage of an invoice total could be slightly >>different from a sales tax amount calculated as the sum of the sales tax >>amounts of each item); to solve this, in the createInvoiceForOrder >>service, we could create an offsetting adjustment to fix the approx errors. >> >>What do you all think of this? >> >>Jacopo >> >> >> >>Hans Bakker wrote: >> >> >>>David, Jacopo, >>> >>>i had a quick look at the new tax functionality and the page in the wiki but >>>could not see if it can be used to automatically calculate sales tax on an >>>invoice for customers in a certain geolocation >>> >>>I need to specify 19% sales tax on the total invoice for every customer in the >>>Netherlands. Will there be an extra invoice item added for this purpose? >>> >>>When possible can you give me a few lines explanation how to do >>>that? >>> >>>Regards, >>>Hans Bakker >>>ANT Websystems Co.,Ltd (http://www.antwebsystems.com) >>> >>>If you want to verify that this message really originates from >>>from the above person, download the public key from: >>>http://www.antwebsystems.com/hbakkerAntwebsystems.asc >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Users mailing list >>>[hidden email] >>>http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users >>> >>> >>> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Users mailing list >>[hidden email] >>http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users >> >> _______________________________________________ Users mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users |
Re: Users - Users - tax functionality
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Hi,
It seems that there are certain locations, such as Germany, where is a common practice to apply the overall sales tax on an order/ invoice based on the "main" product/ line item in the transaction. The "main" product is not necessary the most expensive one. For example, if you have an order like 1. Item A 50 euro 2. Accesory to Item A 20 euro 3. Service fees for Item A 60 euro and VAT for item A is X% while VAT for Service fees is Y%, then - somehow in an arbitrary way - apply X% tax to the whole order. We had the explicit requirement to implement such functionality for our client but we've managed to convince him that calculating taxes by line items is also acceptable from the German accountants point of view. The client wasn't happy but accepted the solution. We found it's easier to make the client change his mind then making the OfBiz adjustments for dealing with such business logic. Cezar Ray wrote: > The UK certainly does require the breakdown, this being an extract from > d'rules:- > > 16.3.1 General > VAT invoices must show: > · an identifying number; > · your name, address and VAT registration number; > · the time of supply (tax point); > · date of issue (if different to the time of supply); > · your customer’s name (or trading name) and address; > · the type of supply (see 16.3.2 below); and > · a description which identifies the goods or services supplied. > For each description, you must show: > · the quantity of goods or extent of the services; > · the charge made, excluding VAT; > · the rate of VAT; > · the total charge made, excluding VAT; > · the rate of any cash discount offered; > · each rate of VAT charged and the amount of VAT charged at each rate and shown in sterling; and > · the total amount of VAT charged, shown in sterling. > > > Ray > > > Daniel Kunkel wrote: > > >>Hi Jacopo >> >>I think we may be a better way of going about this... Is there anyone >>who ever needs the tax calculations broken out? >> >>Although the software currently calculates tax on an item by item basis, >>I do not believe that this is standard practice, even in the United >>States. >> >>Instead, could the functionality be changed to perform the aggregated >>tax calculations universally, as I believe that this is also an >>acceptable way of calculating taxes in the United States? >> >>Thanks >> >>Daniel >> >> >>On Tue, 2006-04-11 at 11:38 +0200, Jacopo Cappellato wrote: >> >> >> >>>Hi Hans, >>> >>>unfortunately I have not still implemented this. >>>The idea (as suggested by David Jones) is to add a flag in the >>>TaxAuthority entity to specify if the tax should be applied to the >>>invoice total or to each invoice items (as is now). >>> >>>There is a quick way to implement the calculation: >>>1) leave the sales tax adjustments as are now, i.e. one adjustment for >>>each order/invoice item >>>2) in the order/invoice reports, hide the item adjustments and show only >>>the total sales tax at the end of the report >>>3) in this way there could be approx errors (a sales tax amount >>>calculated as a percentage of an invoice total could be slightly >>>different from a sales tax amount calculated as the sum of the sales tax >>>amounts of each item); to solve this, in the createInvoiceForOrder >>>service, we could create an offsetting adjustment to fix the approx errors. >>> >>>What do you all think of this? >>> >>>Jacopo >>> >>> >>> >>>Hans Bakker wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>>David, Jacopo, >>>> >>>>i had a quick look at the new tax functionality and the page in the wiki but >>>>could not see if it can be used to automatically calculate sales tax on an >>>>invoice for customers in a certain geolocation >>>> >>>>I need to specify 19% sales tax on the total invoice for every customer in the >>>>Netherlands. Will there be an extra invoice item added for this purpose? >>>> >>>>When possible can you give me a few lines explanation how to do >>>>that? >>>> >>>>Regards, >>>>Hans Bakker >>>>ANT Websystems Co.,Ltd (http://www.antwebsystems.com) >>>> >>>>If you want to verify that this message really originates from >>> >>>>from the above person, download the public key from: >>> >>>>http://www.antwebsystems.com/hbakkerAntwebsystems.asc >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>Users mailing list >>>>[hidden email] >>>>http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Users mailing list >>>[hidden email] >>>http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users >>> >>> > > > _______________________________________________ > Users mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users _______________________________________________ Users mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users |
Re: Users - tax functionality
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In reply to this post by Jacques Le Roux
Hi Jacques,
we (in Italy) too may have several tax rates in the same invoice; the difference is that in Italy the amount of the tax is computed against the total sum of the amounts of the items with the same rate. For example, if in the same invoice I have two books (book_a and book_b) and two computers (computer_a and computer_b): productId | quantity | unitPrice | amount | tax rate ---------------------------------------------------- book_a | 1 | 10 | 10 | 5.5% book_b | 1 | 20 | 20 | 5.5% computer_a| 1 | 997 | 997 | 19.6% computer_b| 1 | 1994 | 1994 | 19.6% OFBiz calculates the sales tax for each item in this way: book_a: 10 * 0.055 = 0.55$ book_b: 20 * 0.055 = 1.10$ computer_a: 997 * 0.196 = 195.41$ computer_b: 1994 * 0.196 = 390.82$ In Italy we calculate the sales taxes in this way: tax 5.5%: (10 + 20) * 0.055 = 1.65$ tax 19.6%: (997 + 1994) * 0.196 = 586.24$ As you can see: the computer taxes calculated by OFBiz are: 195.41 + 390.82 = 586.23 while the computer tax calculated in the 'Italian' way is: 586.24 Jacopo Jacques Le Roux wrote: > Daniel, > > I'm no sure of that, as for example here in France (and I know it's the same at > least in England and Finland) we may have several tax rates (may be differents > per products). For example it' not the same ratio for Computer (19.6%) and book > (5.5%) ... > > Jaques > > _______________________________________________ Users mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users |
Re: Users - tax functionality
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In reply to this post by Jacques Le Roux
Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>----- Original Message ----- >From: "Daniel Kunkel" <[hidden email]> > > > > >>Hi Jacopo >> >>I think we may be a better way of going about this... Is there anyone >>who ever needs the tax calculations broken out? >> >>Although the software currently calculates tax on an item by item basis, >>I do not believe that this is standard practice, even in the United >>States. >> >>Instead, could the functionality be changed to perform the aggregated >>tax calculations universally, as I believe that this is also an >>acceptable way of calculating taxes in the United States? >> >>Thanks >> >>Daniel >> >> > >Daniel, > >I'm no sure of that, as for example here in France (and I know it's the same at >least in England and Finland) we may have several tax rates (may be differents >per products). For example it' not the same ratio for Computer (19.6%) and book >(5.5%) ... > >Jaques > > > If I understand Daniel, he suggests to calculate tax on total and not for each item. But as Jaques says in some country products can have differents tax, but for example in French law we are not obliged to alculate tax VAT for each item but for total item (total for item with same rate). But with tax there can be more problems as two differents VAT: for example for alcohol, this products have very specifics tax (in France, but I think it could be same in other countries). So to answer to all tax rule we could create something like product price rules with rules and action specific. For our customer we have to manage alcohol tax so we will create this module. Sébastien > > > >>On Tue, 2006-04-11 at 11:38 +0200, Jacopo Cappellato wrote: >> >> >>>Hi Hans, >>> >>>unfortunately I have not still implemented this. >>>The idea (as suggested by David Jones) is to add a flag in the >>>TaxAuthority entity to specify if the tax should be applied to the >>>invoice total or to each invoice items (as is now). >>> >>>There is a quick way to implement the calculation: >>>1) leave the sales tax adjustments as are now, i.e. one adjustment for >>>each order/invoice item >>>2) in the order/invoice reports, hide the item adjustments and show only >>>the total sales tax at the end of the report >>>3) in this way there could be approx errors (a sales tax amount >>>calculated as a percentage of an invoice total could be slightly >>>different from a sales tax amount calculated as the sum of the sales tax >>>amounts of each item); to solve this, in the createInvoiceForOrder >>>service, we could create an offsetting adjustment to fix the approx errors. >>> >>>What do you all think of this? >>> >>>Jacopo >>> >>> >>> >>>Hans Bakker wrote: >>> >>> >>>>David, Jacopo, >>>> >>>>i had a quick look at the new tax functionality and the page in the wiki >>>> >>>> >but > > >>>>could not see if it can be used to automatically calculate sales tax on an >>>>invoice for customers in a certain geolocation >>>> >>>>I need to specify 19% sales tax on the total invoice for every customer in >>>> >>>> >the > > >>>>Netherlands. Will there be an extra invoice item added for this purpose? >>>> >>>>When possible can you give me a few lines explanation how to do >>>>that? >>>> >>>>Regards, >>>>Hans Bakker >>>>ANT Websystems Co.,Ltd (http://www.antwebsystems.com) >>>> >>>>If you want to verify that this message really originates from >>>>from the above person, download the public key from: >>>>http://www.antwebsystems.com/hbakkerAntwebsystems.asc >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>Users mailing list >>>>[hidden email] >>>>http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Users mailing list >>>[hidden email] >>>http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users >>> >>> >>-- >>Daniel >> >>*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*- >>Have a GREAT Day! >> >>Daniel Kunkel [hidden email] >>BioWaves, LLC http://www.BioWaves.com >>14150 NE 20th St. Suite F1 >>Bellevue, WA 98007 >>800-734-3588 425-895-0050 >>http://www.Apartment-Pets.com http://www.Focus-Illusion.com >>http://www.Brain-Fun.com http://www.ColorGlasses.com >>*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*- >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Users mailing list >>[hidden email] >>http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users >> >> > > >_______________________________________________ >Users mailing list >[hidden email] >http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users > > > _______________________________________________ Users mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users |
Re: Users - tax functionality
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In reply to this post by Jacopo Cappellato
Hi there,
Since this topic is something which we had to deal with for one of our customers, I am relaying an email from one of my team mates having problem to post his reply to this list via the newsgroups, so here it is: -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: Users - tax functionality Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 11:43:32 -0400 From: Cezar Mihaila <[hidden email]> To: OFBiz Users / Usage Discussion <[hidden email]> Newsgroups: gmane.comp.java.ofbiz.user References: <[hidden email]> <[hidden email]> <1144768377.3311.255.camel@A64> Hi, It seems that there are certain locations, such as Germany, where is a common practice to apply the overall sales tax on an order/ invoice based on the "main" product/ line item in the transaction. The "main" product is not necessary the most expensive one. For example, if you have an order like 1. Item A 50 euro 2. Accesory to Item A 20 euro 3. Service fees for Item A 60 euro and VAT for item A is X% while VAT for Service fees is Y%, then - somehow in an arbitrary way - apply X% tax to the whole order. We had the explicit requirement to implement such functionality for our client but we've managed to convince him that calculating taxes by line items is also acceptable from the German accountants point of view. The client wasn't happy but accepted the solution. We found it's easier to make the client change his mind then making the OfBiz adjustments for dealing with such business logic. Cezar Jacopo Cappellato wrote: > Hi Jacques, > > we (in Italy) too may have several tax rates in the same invoice; the > difference is that in Italy the amount of the tax is computed against > the total sum of the amounts of the items with the same rate. > For example, if in the same invoice I have two books (book_a and book_b) > and two computers (computer_a and computer_b): > > productId | quantity | unitPrice | amount | tax rate > ---------------------------------------------------- > book_a | 1 | 10 | 10 | 5.5% > book_b | 1 | 20 | 20 | 5.5% > computer_a| 1 | 997 | 997 | 19.6% > computer_b| 1 | 1994 | 1994 | 19.6% > > OFBiz calculates the sales tax for each item in this way: > > book_a: 10 * 0.055 = 0.55$ > book_b: 20 * 0.055 = 1.10$ > computer_a: 997 * 0.196 = 195.41$ > computer_b: 1994 * 0.196 = 390.82$ > > In Italy we calculate the sales taxes in this way: > > tax 5.5%: (10 + 20) * 0.055 = 1.65$ > tax 19.6%: (997 + 1994) * 0.196 = 586.24$ > > As you can see: > > the computer taxes calculated by OFBiz are: > 195.41 + 390.82 = 586.23 > > while the computer tax calculated in the 'Italian' way is: > 586.24 > > Jacopo > > > Jacques Le Roux wrote: > >> Daniel, >> >> I'm no sure of that, as for example here in France (and I know it's the same at >> least in England and Finland) we may have several tax rates (may be differents >> per products). For example it' not the same ratio for Computer (19.6%) and book >> (5.5%) ... >> >> Jaques >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Users mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users > > > > _______________________________________________ Users mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users |
Re: Users - tax functionality
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Administrator
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In reply to this post by Jacopo Cappellato
Jacopo,
You are right, it's the same in France as Sebastien pointed out. Jacques ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jacopo Cappellato" <[hidden email]> To: "OFBiz Users / Usage Discussion" <[hidden email]> Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 6:16 PM Subject: Re: [OFBiz] Users - tax functionality > Hi Jacques, > > we (in Italy) too may have several tax rates in the same invoice; the > difference is that in Italy the amount of the tax is computed against > the total sum of the amounts of the items with the same rate. > For example, if in the same invoice I have two books (book_a and book_b) > and two computers (computer_a and computer_b): > > productId | quantity | unitPrice | amount | tax rate > ---------------------------------------------------- > book_a | 1 | 10 | 10 | 5.5% > book_b | 1 | 20 | 20 | 5.5% > computer_a| 1 | 997 | 997 | 19.6% > computer_b| 1 | 1994 | 1994 | 19.6% > > OFBiz calculates the sales tax for each item in this way: > > book_a: 10 * 0.055 = 0.55$ > book_b: 20 * 0.055 = 1.10$ > computer_a: 997 * 0.196 = 195.41$ > computer_b: 1994 * 0.196 = 390.82$ > > In Italy we calculate the sales taxes in this way: > > tax 5.5%: (10 + 20) * 0.055 = 1.65$ > tax 19.6%: (997 + 1994) * 0.196 = 586.24$ > > As you can see: > > the computer taxes calculated by OFBiz are: > 195.41 + 390.82 = 586.23 > > while the computer tax calculated in the 'Italian' way is: > 586.24 > > Jacopo > > > Jacques Le Roux wrote: > > Daniel, > > > > I'm no sure of that, as for example here in France (and I know it's the same > > least in England and Finland) we may have several tax rates (may be differents > > per products). For example it' not the same ratio for Computer (19.6%) and book > > (5.5%) ... > > > > Jaques > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Users mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users _______________________________________________ Users mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users |
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In reply to this post by Jacopo Cappellato
Jacopo Cappellato wrote: > 3) in this way there could be approx errors (a sales tax amount > calculated as a percentage of an invoice total could be slightly > different from a sales tax amount calculated as the sum of the sales tax > amounts of each item); to solve this, in the createInvoiceForOrder > service, we could create an offsetting adjustment to fix the approx errors. There is stuff in place to avoid this right now. Tax adjustments for each line item are calculated to 3 decimal places, then added up, then rounded to 2 places for the tax total. Doing it this way is required in certain countries, like the UK. It doesn't totally eliminate any difference there might be, especially for a large number of order/invoice items, but it is closer. -David _______________________________________________ Users mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users |
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In reply to this post by Daniel Kunkel
Daniel Kunkel wrote: > Although the software currently calculates tax on an item by item basis, > I do not believe that this is standard practice, even in the United > States. > > Instead, could the functionality be changed to perform the aggregated > tax calculations universally, as I believe that this is also an > acceptable way of calculating taxes in the United States? Actually this _is_ a standard practice in the USA. In fact, those who don't consider tax on a per product basis are most likely not calculating their sales taxes correctly. No state in the country has sufficiently simple sales tax laws for that (except those with no sales tax of course...). Physical stores often get away with charging a single rate, and they just over-tax their customers so the government doesn't complain. In conversations about this with retailers they accept that as a practice and when a customer knows about a tax exception they just refund the taxes on a case by case basis for each customer that complains. For online retailers it is a bit of a nightmare. This is why rather expensive packages like TaxWare exist. To get an idea of how much fun it is there are some good materials related to details in this area for TaxWare and the ZipSales tax database. -David _______________________________________________ Users mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users |
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David
Thanks for setting the record straight. Peachtree, the small business accounting packages been using calculates the taxes in a way that doesn't match... I never looked into it to understand why, but assumed it was due to rounding errors. Daniel On Tue, 2006-04-11 at 13:43 -0600, David E. Jones wrote: > > Daniel Kunkel wrote: > > Although the software currently calculates tax on an item by item basis, > > I do not believe that this is standard practice, even in the United > > States. > > > > Instead, could the functionality be changed to perform the aggregated > > tax calculations universally, as I believe that this is also an > > acceptable way of calculating taxes in the United States? > > Actually this _is_ a standard practice in the USA. In fact, those who don't consider tax on a per product basis are most likely not calculating their sales taxes correctly. No state in the country has sufficiently simple sales tax laws for that (except those with no sales tax of course...). > > Physical stores often get away with charging a single rate, and they just over-tax their customers so the government doesn't complain. In conversations about this with retailers they accept that as a practice and when a customer knows about a tax exception they just refund the taxes on a case by case basis for each customer that complains. > > For online retailers it is a bit of a nightmare. This is why rather expensive packages like TaxWare exist. > > To get an idea of how much fun it is there are some good materials related to details in this area for TaxWare and the ZipSales tax database. > > -David > > _______________________________________________ > Users mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users Daniel *-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*- Have a GREAT Day! Daniel Kunkel [hidden email] BioWaves, LLC http://www.BioWaves.com 14150 NE 20th St. Suite F1 Bellevue, WA 98007 800-734-3588 425-895-0050 http://www.Apartment-Pets.com http://www.Focus-Illusion.com http://www.Brain-Fun.com http://www.ColorGlasses.com *-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*- _______________________________________________ Users mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users |
Re: Users - tax functionality
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In reply to this post by David E. Jones
David,
thanks for your comments: I'll study how the "calcTax" service actually works. However, since taxes are calculated in the order, I think that many of the approx problems could happen when the order is shipped/invoiced with more than one shipments. For example, how an order header adjustment is splitted up when the order is invoiced in two invoices? Jacopo David E. Jones wrote: > > Jacopo Cappellato wrote: >> 3) in this way there could be approx errors (a sales tax amount >> calculated as a percentage of an invoice total could be slightly >> different from a sales tax amount calculated as the sum of the sales tax >> amounts of each item); to solve this, in the createInvoiceForOrder >> service, we could create an offsetting adjustment to fix the approx errors. > > There is stuff in place to avoid this right now. Tax adjustments for each line item are calculated to 3 decimal places, then added up, then rounded to 2 places for the tax total. Doing it this way is required in certain countries, like the UK. > > It doesn't totally eliminate any difference there might be, especially for a large number of order/invoice items, but it is closer. > > -David > > > _______________________________________________ > Users mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users > _______________________________________________ Users mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users |
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