What happeded to the real flatgrey theme?
Locked
123
123
Re: What happeded to the real theme?
 
|
Since there seems to be some interest in keeping the old Flat Grey theme, I will bundle it up and add it to the visual themes gallery. I should have it finished this weekend.
-Adrian --- On Fri, 1/21/11, BJ Freeman <[hidden email]> wrote: > From: BJ Freeman <[hidden email]> > Subject: Re: What happeded to the real theme? > To: [hidden email] > Date: Friday, January 21, 2011, 11:18 AM > since during the first discussion I > suggested this. > I find this a contradiction and an example of how designers > reduce the ROI. > If this is acceptable, why was it not acceptable before the > changes were > made. > to clarify > keep the original as flatgrey and the new one flatgreyII > > ========================= > BJ Freeman > Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation > <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52> > Specialtymarket.com <http://www.specialtymarket.com/> > Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist > > Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man > > Erwan de FERRIERES sent the following on 1/21/2011 1:11 > AM: > > > Le 21/01/2011 09:48, BJ Freeman a écrit : > > > >> as far as flatgrey I am with mike. > >> keep the original and make the updated one > flatgreyII. > > > > Create a jira issue, and add it your patch if you want > if back. We can > > also start a discussion on this base. > > > > Anyway, as it was said before, books are based on > stable versions, 9.04 > > or 10.04 in which is included the old flatgrey. So > there is no harm done > > from this point. > > > > One more thing, how can one be surprised if things are > changing and he > > is not suscribing to dev and commit lists ? > > > |
Re: What happeded to the real theme?
|
|
Thanks Ardian, but my original suggestion to mike stands.
for Me I don't use update from trunk to keep my own Svn update, so I have the orginal. I moved the new flat grey to my flatgreyII, through my own upgrade path scripts. BTW I like the effort on the new, just about replacing the orginal. ========================= BJ Freeman Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52> Specialtymarket.com <http://www.specialtymarket.com/> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man Adrian Crum sent the following on 1/21/2011 11:44 AM: > Since there seems to be some interest in keeping the old Flat Grey theme, I will bundle it up and add it to the visual themes gallery. I should have it finished this weekend. > > -Adrian > > --- On Fri, 1/21/11, BJ Freeman<[hidden email]> wrote: > >> From: BJ Freeman<[hidden email]> >> Subject: Re: What happeded to the real theme? >> To: [hidden email] >> Date: Friday, January 21, 2011, 11:18 AM >> since during the first discussion I >> suggested this. >> I find this a contradiction and an example of how designers >> reduce the ROI. >> If this is acceptable, why was it not acceptable before the >> changes were >> made. >> to clarify >> keep the original as flatgrey and the new one flatgreyII >> >> ========================= >> BJ Freeman >> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation >> <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52> >> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/> >> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist >> >> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man >> >> Erwan de FERRIERES sent the following on 1/21/2011 1:11 >> AM: >> >>> Le 21/01/2011 09:48, BJ Freeman a écrit : >>> >>>> as far as flatgrey I am with mike. >>>> keep the original and make the updated one >> flatgreyII. >>> >>> Create a jira issue, and add it your patch if you want >> if back. We can >>> also start a discussion on this base. >>> >>> Anyway, as it was said before, books are based on >> stable versions, 9.04 >>> or 10.04 in which is included the old flatgrey. So >> there is no harm done >>> from this point. >>> >>> One more thing, how can one be surprised if things are >> changing and he >>> is not suscribing to dev and commit lists ? >>> >> > > > > |
Re: What happeded to the real flatgrey theme?
|
|
In reply to this post by Ruth Hoffman-2
Really Ruth? Really? That is absolutely ridiculous. I am not a committer or a PMC member. I am an "outsider" individual contributor with an active interest in moving the project forward. There is not a single committed line of code in the whole framework with my name directly attached to it, but I yet over the years I have still managed to make some key contributions to the project through patches, discussions, collaborations, design etc. such as the BizznessTime theme, the redesign of the public facing website, one page checkout, the Dropping Crumbs theme, the Flat Grey theme... my list is pretty long.
So instead in being abrasive and disrespectful, why don't you try doing what I do. Treat the other members of this community with respect, communicate frankly and openly, and accept feedback, criticism and collaboration without getting defensive and insulting people. I consider people like Jacques, Adrian, Bruno, Anil, and Jacopo my friends and colleagues and I seem to have no problem at all getting them to listen to me. Ryan L. Foster 801.671.0769 [hidden email] ryanlfoster.com On Jan 21, 2011, at 11:41 AM, Ruth Hoffman wrote: > Ryan: > Get real. Not a single commiter (with the exception of Jacques and BJ - who isn't a commiter - I don't think) listens to anyone from the outside. > Personally, I stand by my other comment: "You guys don't have a clue". > > Here's another saying that I find useful: "If its not broke, don't fix it". That means that just because something is 10 years old, it is not necessarily obsolete. > > Best Regards, > Ruth > > On 1/21/11 4:33 AM, Ryan Foster wrote: >> While I appreciate the spirited debate, where were these voices over two weeks ago when Adrian and I can began working on refreshing the theme (and that is what it was, not a redesign, not a new theme, not a complete overhaul. We changed the header and footer, and made a few CSS changes - that's it). This wasn't done in a vacuum and it wasn't done without discussion and debate. We didn't get together in some secret back-room deal and decide "Hey let's get rid of Flat Grey and piss everyone off". >> >> Adrian proposed updating the theme to the mailing list back on the 29th of December, asked for feedback, suggestions and participation, and we went to work. if you ask me, 24 days is a really big "vacuum" for a couple of CSS changes. Also, if you look at the JIRA issue https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-4092, there were 9 screenshots and 8 separate patches posted between the 4th and the 14th of January. Anyone could have grabbed those and monitored the progress. >> >> I agree that there should be backwards compatibility, I agree that there should stability, but for heaven's sake, it's just a theme. Simply blindly following a backwards compatibility mantra gives you outdated, useless software that was cutting edge 10 years ago, but is now the butt of developer jokes... I'm looking at you IE6. >> >> >> Ryan L. Foster >> 801.671.0769 >> [hidden email] >> ryanlfoster.com >> >> On Jan 20, 2011, at 8:38 PM, Ruth Hoffman wrote: >> >>> Yeah you do...live in a vacuum. IMHO and experience the PMC does live in a vacuum. As the saying goes...you guys "don't have a clue". >>> Just my 2 cents. >>> Ruth >>> >>> On 1/20/11 9:56 PM, Adrian Crum wrote: >>>> That's not true. Every change is discussed and debated. >>>> >>>> The OFBiz developers and the PMC don't live in a vacuum - they have production systems to maintain. It is silly to think they would not consider those production systems when proposing changes. >>>> >>>> -Adrian >>>> >>>> --- On Thu, 1/20/11, BJ Freeman<[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>> you will find that the ofbiz >>>>> developer group first priority is to change >>>>> before considering the effect on production systemm using >>>>> offbiz. >>>>> something I lobby against, but has little effect. >>>>> so I have a system to accomplish this regardless of what >>>>> they do. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ========================= >>>>> BJ Freeman >>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation >>>>> <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52> >>>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/> >>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist >>>>> >>>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Mike sent the following on 1/20/2011 3:38 PM: >>>>>> But why delete it? Alot of folks learned ofbiz >>>>> on flatgrey, and their >>>>>> employees are used to it. At least keep it >>>>> around as flatgrey_old. >>>>>> On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 3:30 PM, Adrian Crum<[hidden email]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> That theme was starting to look old, so the >>>>> developer community decided to >>>>>>> update it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If you prefer the old version of the theme, you >>>>> are welcome to replace the >>>>>>> new one with it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -Adrian >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 1/20/2011 3:21 PM, Mike wrote: >>>>>>>> I just loaded trunk and discovered that the >>>>> normal flatgrey theme has >>>>>>>> been completely redefined. What >>>>> happened? I thought it was actually >>>>>>>> the best theme that was very well >>>>> organized. Is there a way to get it >>>>>>>> back? >>>>>>>> >>>> >>>> >> |
Re: What happeded to the real theme?
Administrator
|
In reply to this post by BJ Freeman
It would be great to have some cleaning of https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/Visual+Themes+Gallery. This was already
suggested by Bruno and Ryan. Hopefully Adrian will get enough time to do it... Jacques From: "BJ Freeman" <[hidden email]> > Thanks Ardian, but my original suggestion to mike stands. > for Me I don't use update from trunk to keep my own Svn update, so I have the orginal. I moved the new flat grey to my flatgreyII, > through my own upgrade path scripts. > BTW I like the effort on the new, just about replacing the orginal. > > > > > ========================= > BJ Freeman > Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52> > Specialtymarket.com <http://www.specialtymarket.com/> > Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist > > Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man > > > Adrian Crum sent the following on 1/21/2011 11:44 AM: >> Since there seems to be some interest in keeping the old Flat Grey theme, I will bundle it up and add it to the visual themes >> gallery. I should have it finished this weekend. >> >> -Adrian >> >> --- On Fri, 1/21/11, BJ Freeman<[hidden email]> wrote: >> >>> From: BJ Freeman<[hidden email]> >>> Subject: Re: What happeded to the real theme? >>> To: [hidden email] >>> Date: Friday, January 21, 2011, 11:18 AM >>> since during the first discussion I >>> suggested this. >>> I find this a contradiction and an example of how designers >>> reduce the ROI. >>> If this is acceptable, why was it not acceptable before the >>> changes were >>> made. >>> to clarify >>> keep the original as flatgrey and the new one flatgreyII >>> >>> ========================= >>> BJ Freeman >>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation >>> <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52> >>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/> >>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist >>> >>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man >>> >>> Erwan de FERRIERES sent the following on 1/21/2011 1:11 >>> AM: >>> >>>> Le 21/01/2011 09:48, BJ Freeman a écrit : >>>> >>>>> as far as flatgrey I am with mike. >>>>> keep the original and make the updated one >>> flatgreyII. >>>> >>>> Create a jira issue, and add it your patch if you want >>> if back. We can >>>> also start a discussion on this base. >>>> >>>> Anyway, as it was said before, books are based on >>> stable versions, 9.04 >>>> or 10.04 in which is included the old flatgrey. So >>> there is no harm done >>>> from this point. >>>> >>>> One more thing, how can one be surprised if things are >>> changing and he >>>> is not suscribing to dev and commit lists ? >>>> >>> >> >> >> >> > |
Re: What happeded to the real flatgrey theme?
|
|
In reply to this post by Ruth Hoffman-2
In addition to the other arguments to dispute this claim, have you considered that most committers earn a living using OFBiz and so they survive by listening to people from the outside. Based on that you might adjust your attack to say that committers don't listen to anyone from the outside unless they give them money, but that is also not true. No one is paid to read the mailing lists (not that I know of anyway...), but that is certainly commonly done by committers and is the most common form of listening (probably even more significant than being paid to listen to a client). And there is far more. In fact, many of the ideas in the framework and the applications came from users via the mailing lists and for the most part without any sort of financial relationship. How do you think this whole thing works? That's not a rhetorical question, I'd appreciate an answer to accompany your attacks. How do YOU think things get done in this project? -David On Jan 21, 2011, at 10:41 AM, Ruth Hoffman wrote: > Ryan: > Get real. Not a single commiter (with the exception of Jacques and BJ - who isn't a commiter - I don't think) listens to anyone from the outside. > Personally, I stand by my other comment: "You guys don't have a clue". > > Here's another saying that I find useful: "If its not broke, don't fix it". That means that just because something is 10 years old, it is not necessarily obsolete. > > Best Regards, > Ruth > > On 1/21/11 4:33 AM, Ryan Foster wrote: >> While I appreciate the spirited debate, where were these voices over two weeks ago when Adrian and I can began working on refreshing the theme (and that is what it was, not a redesign, not a new theme, not a complete overhaul. We changed the header and footer, and made a few CSS changes - that's it). This wasn't done in a vacuum and it wasn't done without discussion and debate. We didn't get together in some secret back-room deal and decide "Hey let's get rid of Flat Grey and piss everyone off". >> >> Adrian proposed updating the theme to the mailing list back on the 29th of December, asked for feedback, suggestions and participation, and we went to work. if you ask me, 24 days is a really big "vacuum" for a couple of CSS changes. Also, if you look at the JIRA issue https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-4092, there were 9 screenshots and 8 separate patches posted between the 4th and the 14th of January. Anyone could have grabbed those and monitored the progress. >> >> I agree that there should be backwards compatibility, I agree that there should stability, but for heaven's sake, it's just a theme. Simply blindly following a backwards compatibility mantra gives you outdated, useless software that was cutting edge 10 years ago, but is now the butt of developer jokes... I'm looking at you IE6. >> >> >> Ryan L. Foster >> 801.671.0769 >> [hidden email] >> ryanlfoster.com >> >> On Jan 20, 2011, at 8:38 PM, Ruth Hoffman wrote: >> >>> Yeah you do...live in a vacuum. IMHO and experience the PMC does live in a vacuum. As the saying goes...you guys "don't have a clue". >>> Just my 2 cents. >>> Ruth >>> >>> On 1/20/11 9:56 PM, Adrian Crum wrote: >>>> That's not true. Every change is discussed and debated. >>>> >>>> The OFBiz developers and the PMC don't live in a vacuum - they have production systems to maintain. It is silly to think they would not consider those production systems when proposing changes. >>>> >>>> -Adrian >>>> >>>> --- On Thu, 1/20/11, BJ Freeman<[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>> you will find that the ofbiz >>>>> developer group first priority is to change >>>>> before considering the effect on production systemm using >>>>> offbiz. >>>>> something I lobby against, but has little effect. >>>>> so I have a system to accomplish this regardless of what >>>>> they do. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ========================= >>>>> BJ Freeman >>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation >>>>> <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52> >>>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/> >>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist >>>>> >>>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Mike sent the following on 1/20/2011 3:38 PM: >>>>>> But why delete it? Alot of folks learned ofbiz >>>>> on flatgrey, and their >>>>>> employees are used to it. At least keep it >>>>> around as flatgrey_old. >>>>>> On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 3:30 PM, Adrian Crum<[hidden email]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> That theme was starting to look old, so the >>>>> developer community decided to >>>>>>> update it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If you prefer the old version of the theme, you >>>>> are welcome to replace the >>>>>>> new one with it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -Adrian >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 1/20/2011 3:21 PM, Mike wrote: >>>>>>>> I just loaded trunk and discovered that the >>>>> normal flatgrey theme has >>>>>>>> been completely redefined. What >>>>> happened? I thought it was actually >>>>>>>> the best theme that was very well >>>>> organized. Is there a way to get it >>>>>>>> back? >>>>>>>> >>>> >>>> >> |
Re: What happeded to the real flatgrey theme?
|
|
In reply to this post by Ruth Hoffman-2
>
> Here's another saying that I find useful: "If its not broke, don't fix it". That means that just because something is 10 years old, it is not necessarily obsolete. It was never suggested that the Flat Grey Theme was broken or obsolete, just that it could stand a refresh. I can site numerous studies that show that how something looks affects how it is perceived, but just a take a look at http://www.alistapart.com/articles/indefenseofeyecandy Having a theme that looks like it hasn't been touched in years affects the perception of the project as a whole. Think about it; would you buy a Ferrari engine if it was inside a Prius body frame? Can you simply just sew a Gucci label onto a t-shirt you bought from Walmart and sell for it $500? Like it or not, perception and presentation go a long way toward credibility. Ryan L. Foster 801.671.0769 [hidden email] ryanlfoster.com On Jan 21, 2011, at 11:41 AM, Ruth Hoffman wrote: > Ryan: > Get real. Not a single commiter (with the exception of Jacques and BJ - who isn't a commiter - I don't think) listens to anyone from the outside. > Personally, I stand by my other comment: "You guys don't have a clue". > > Here's another saying that I find useful: "If its not broke, don't fix it". That means that just because something is 10 years old, it is not necessarily obsolete. > > Best Regards, > Ruth > > On 1/21/11 4:33 AM, Ryan Foster wrote: >> While I appreciate the spirited debate, where were these voices over two weeks ago when Adrian and I can began working on refreshing the theme (and that is what it was, not a redesign, not a new theme, not a complete overhaul. We changed the header and footer, and made a few CSS changes - that's it). This wasn't done in a vacuum and it wasn't done without discussion and debate. We didn't get together in some secret back-room deal and decide "Hey let's get rid of Flat Grey and piss everyone off". >> >> Adrian proposed updating the theme to the mailing list back on the 29th of December, asked for feedback, suggestions and participation, and we went to work. if you ask me, 24 days is a really big "vacuum" for a couple of CSS changes. Also, if you look at the JIRA issue https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-4092, there were 9 screenshots and 8 separate patches posted between the 4th and the 14th of January. Anyone could have grabbed those and monitored the progress. >> >> I agree that there should be backwards compatibility, I agree that there should stability, but for heaven's sake, it's just a theme. Simply blindly following a backwards compatibility mantra gives you outdated, useless software that was cutting edge 10 years ago, but is now the butt of developer jokes... I'm looking at you IE6. >> >> >> Ryan L. Foster >> 801.671.0769 >> [hidden email] >> ryanlfoster.com >> >> On Jan 20, 2011, at 8:38 PM, Ruth Hoffman wrote: >> >>> Yeah you do...live in a vacuum. IMHO and experience the PMC does live in a vacuum. As the saying goes...you guys "don't have a clue". >>> Just my 2 cents. >>> Ruth >>> >>> On 1/20/11 9:56 PM, Adrian Crum wrote: >>>> That's not true. Every change is discussed and debated. >>>> >>>> The OFBiz developers and the PMC don't live in a vacuum - they have production systems to maintain. It is silly to think they would not consider those production systems when proposing changes. >>>> >>>> -Adrian >>>> >>>> --- On Thu, 1/20/11, BJ Freeman<[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>> you will find that the ofbiz >>>>> developer group first priority is to change >>>>> before considering the effect on production systemm using >>>>> offbiz. >>>>> something I lobby against, but has little effect. >>>>> so I have a system to accomplish this regardless of what >>>>> they do. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ========================= >>>>> BJ Freeman >>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation >>>>> <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52> >>>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/> >>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist >>>>> >>>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Mike sent the following on 1/20/2011 3:38 PM: >>>>>> But why delete it? Alot of folks learned ofbiz >>>>> on flatgrey, and their >>>>>> employees are used to it. At least keep it >>>>> around as flatgrey_old. >>>>>> On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 3:30 PM, Adrian Crum<[hidden email]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> That theme was starting to look old, so the >>>>> developer community decided to >>>>>>> update it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If you prefer the old version of the theme, you >>>>> are welcome to replace the >>>>>>> new one with it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -Adrian >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 1/20/2011 3:21 PM, Mike wrote: >>>>>>>> I just loaded trunk and discovered that the >>>>> normal flatgrey theme has >>>>>>>> been completely redefined. What >>>>> happened? I thought it was actually >>>>>>>> the best theme that was very well >>>>> organized. Is there a way to get it >>>>>>>> back? >>>>>>>> >>>> >>>> >> |
«
Return to OFBiz - User
|
1 view|%1 views
| Free forum by Nabble | Edit this page |