What is the "Apache OFBiz" product?

[Jacopo Cappellato-5]

*Rationale*

"Apache OFBiz" is one of our trademarks. And we apply it to our project and
product; we say:
1) the "Apache OFBiz" project or the "Apache OFBiz" community
2) the "Apache OFBiz" product (i.e. the downloadable software package that
we release)

While #1 is pretty much a satisfactory definition, I find that "product" is
a too generic term and that we could find and agree upon a more precise and
"official" definition.
It is worth noting that the trademark best practices says that you should
never use the trademark on a product as a noun but rather as an adjective.
So for example:
- this is *not* correct (noun): "download Apache OFBiz from here"
- this *is* correct (adjective): "download the Apache OFBiz product from
here"

*Discussion Item*

Can we find a better definition for our product than... "product" or
"software product"?

For example we could consider (after reading this definition [*]):
The "Apache OFBiz" software suite or
The "Apache OFBiz" suite or
The "Apache OFBiz" ERP software suite or
The "Apache OFBiz" ERP suite
etc...

Any ideas? Please try to fill the <?> placeholder below with the string
that you find more suited:

         The "Apache OFBiz" <?>

If we agree upon an "official" definition then we could use it consistently
in our website, announcements, social media etc...

Regards,

Jacopo

[*] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_suite

[Gavin Mabie-2]

The Apache OFBiz "Business Suite"?

Similar software solutions use this terminology. eg ADempiere Business
Suite, OpenBravo Business Suite.

Gavin



On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 3:51 PM, Jacopo Cappellato <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> *Rationale*
>
> "Apache OFBiz" is one of our trademarks. And we apply it to our project and
> product; we say:
> 1) the "Apache OFBiz" project or the "Apache OFBiz" community
> 2) the "Apache OFBiz" product (i.e. the downloadable software package that
> we release)
>
> While #1 is pretty much a satisfactory definition, I find that "product" is
> a too generic term and that we could find and agree upon a more precise and
> "official" definition.
> It is worth noting that the trademark best practices says that you should
> never use the trademark on a product as a noun but rather as an adjective.
> So for example:
> - this is *not* correct (noun): "download Apache OFBiz from here"
> - this *is* correct (adjective): "download the Apache OFBiz product from
> here"
>
> *Discussion Item*
>
> Can we find a better definition for our product than... "product" or
> "software product"?
>
> For example we could consider (after reading this definition [*]):
> The "Apache OFBiz" software suite or
> The "Apache OFBiz" suite or
> The "Apache OFBiz" ERP software suite or
> The "Apache OFBiz" ERP suite
> etc...
>
> Any ideas? Please try to fill the <?> placeholder below with the string
> that you find more suited:
>
>          The "Apache OFBiz" <?>
>
> If we agree upon an "official" definition then we could use it consistently
> in our website, announcements, social media etc...
>
> Regards,
>
> Jacopo
>
> [*] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_suite
>

[Julien NICOLAS]

Hi Jacopo,

I'm not sure that ofbiz is an ERP. I mean I'm not sure that ofbiz is a
turnkey solution. You can't just install the software and say "Let use
it, it's ready!". We get our hands dirty before the final customer can
use it serenely.

This is why I prefer the actual sentence "Apache OFBiz® is an open
source product for the automation of enterprise processes that includes
framework components and business applications"

I understand that is too long, this is why I suggest :

The "Apache OFBiz" framework

The "Apache OFBiz" web based application framework

Julien.

On 11/01/2017 14:51, Jacopo Cappellato wrote:
> Any ideas? Please try to fill the <?> placeholder below with the string
> that you find more suited:
>
>           The "Apache OFBiz" <?>

[Jacopo Cappellato-5]

On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 3:51 PM, Julien NICOLAS <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> [...]
> This is why I prefer the actual sentence "Apache OFBiz® is an open source
> product for the automation of enterprise processes that includes framework
> components and business applications"
>

From a trademark best practice perspective the above is incorrect (yeah...
it is in our website) and should be changed to its equivalent:

"The Apache OFBiz® open source product for the automation of enterprise
processes"

and its longer (descriptive) version would be:

"The Apache OFBiz® open source product for the automation of enterprise
processes includes framework components and business applications"

A bit ugly.

Jacopo

[taher]

Agreed Jacopo,

My preference would be The "Apache OFBiz" ERP suite. The reason is that the
term ERP is very popular and understandable to business folks. It also
conveys the heart of what this product is all about. Yes it is not yet
refined for immediate consumption by end users, but that does not prevent
usage of the term.




On Jan 11, 2017 6:19 PM, "Jacopo Cappellato" <jacopo.cappellato@
hotwaxsystems.com> wrote:

On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 3:51 PM, Julien NICOLAS <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> [...]
> This is why I prefer the actual sentence "Apache OFBiz® is an open source
> product for the automation of enterprise processes that includes framework
> components and business applications"
>

From a trademark best practice perspective the above is incorrect (yeah...
it is in our website) and should be changed to its equivalent:

"The Apache OFBiz® open source product for the automation of enterprise
processes"

and its longer (descriptive) version would be:

"The Apache OFBiz® open source product for the automation of enterprise
processes includes framework components and business applications"

A bit ugly.

Jacopo

[Nicolas Malin-2]

I don't like the term ERP because is so reduced term for OFBiz dans all
product that can register a task for a party and a product is an ERP

I prefer "Apache OFBiz enterprise automation framework"

The term ERP or Business suite will come with the plugin addition to the
OFBiz core.

Nicolas

Le 11/01/2017 à 17:15, Taher Alkhateeb a écrit :

> Agreed Jacopo,
>
> My preference would be The "Apache OFBiz" ERP suite. The reason is that the
> term ERP is very popular and understandable to business folks. It also
> conveys the heart of what this product is all about. Yes it is not yet
> refined for immediate consumption by end users, but that does not prevent
> usage of the term.
>
>
>
>
> On Jan 11, 2017 6:19 PM, "Jacopo Cappellato" <jacopo.cappellato@
> hotwaxsystems.com> wrote:
>
> On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 3:51 PM, Julien NICOLAS <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> [...]
>> This is why I prefer the actual sentence "Apache OFBiz® is an open source
>> product for the automation of enterprise processes that includes framework
>> components and business applications"
>>
> >From a trademark best practice perspective the above is incorrect (yeah...
> it is in our website) and should be changed to its equivalent:
>
> "The Apache OFBiz® open source product for the automation of enterprise
> processes"
>
> and its longer (descriptive) version would be:
>
> "The Apache OFBiz® open source product for the automation of enterprise
> processes includes framework components and business applications"
>
> A bit ugly.
>
> Jacopo
>

[Hans Bakker]

+1 for "Apache OFBiz enterprise automation framework"

and perhaps later create a new product "OFBiz Business suite" based on
the framework which is ready for direct use.

However currently leave the immediate consumption for the systems like
Hotwax e-commerce, Ilscipio ERP and GrowERP and others....

Regards,
Hans

On 12/01/17 00:44, Nicolas Malin wrote:

> I don't like the term ERP because is so reduced term for OFBiz dans all
> product that can register a task for a party and a product is an ERP
>
> I prefer "Apache OFBiz enterprise automation framework"
>
> The term ERP or Business suite will come with the plugin addition to the
> OFBiz core.
>
> Nicolas
>
> Le 11/01/2017 à 17:15, Taher Alkhateeb a écrit :
>> Agreed Jacopo,
>>
>> My preference would be The "Apache OFBiz" ERP suite. The reason is
>> that the
>> term ERP is very popular and understandable to business folks. It also
>> conveys the heart of what this product is all about. Yes it is not yet
>> refined for immediate consumption by end users, but that does not prevent
>> usage of the term.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jan 11, 2017 6:19 PM, "Jacopo Cappellato" <jacopo.cappellato@
>> hotwaxsystems.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 3:51 PM, Julien NICOLAS
>> <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> [...]
>>> This is why I prefer the actual sentence "Apache OFBiz® is an open
>>> source
>>> product for the automation of enterprise processes that includes
>>> framework
>>> components and business applications"
>>>
>> >From a trademark best practice perspective the above is incorrect
>> (yeah...
>> it is in our website) and should be changed to its equivalent:
>>
>> "The Apache OFBiz® open source product for the automation of enterprise
>> processes"
>>
>> and its longer (descriptive) version would be:
>>
>> "The Apache OFBiz® open source product for the automation of enterprise
>> processes includes framework components and business applications"
>>
>> A bit ugly.
>>
>> Jacopo
>>
>

--

Regards,

Hans Bakker
CEO, http://antwebsystems.com

[Jacopo Cappellato-5]

On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 6:44 PM, Nicolas Malin <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> I don't like the term ERP because is so reduced term for OFBiz dans all
> product that can register a task for a party and a product is an ERP
>
> I prefer "Apache OFBiz enterprise automation framework"
>
> The term ERP or Business suite will come with the plugin addition to the
> OFBiz core.
>
> Nicolas


I also like the shorter ones:

The "Apache OFBiz" enterprise framework
The "Apache OFBiz" enterprise suite (which is similar to the one proposed
by Gavin, that I also like, that has the word "business" instead on
"enterprise")
My concern with the word ERP is that it is an acronym and ends up being too
close to the word OFBiz, which is also some sort of acronym, and the
concatenated string may look confusing: "Apache OFBiz ERP".
Another concern with the name "enterprise framework" is that, when/if we
will release a separate product containing only the OFBiz framework, this
name would be confusing: in fact my preference is to allocate "framework"
for that product (if we will ever release it).

Anyway, great proposals so far... I hope the brainstorming will continue!
Any volunteer to list *all* the ideas to a Confluence page (maybe even with
relevant comments from this thread behind each proposal)?

Jacopo

[rhowell]

+1 for "Apache OFBiz enterprise automation framework" also.

On 12 January 2017 at 02:06, Hans Bakker <[hidden email]> wrote:

> +1 for "Apache OFBiz enterprise automation framework"
>
> and perhaps later create a new product "OFBiz Business suite" based on the
> framework which is ready for direct use.
>
> However currently leave the immediate consumption for the systems like
> Hotwax e-commerce, Ilscipio ERP and GrowERP and others....
>
> Regards,
> Hans
>
> On 12/01/17 00:44, Nicolas Malin wrote:
>
>> I don't like the term ERP because is so reduced term for OFBiz dans all
>> product that can register a task for a party and a product is an ERP
>>
>> I prefer "Apache OFBiz enterprise automation framework"
>>
>> The term ERP or Business suite will come with the plugin addition to the
>> OFBiz core.
>>
>> Nicolas
>>
>> Le 11/01/2017 à 17:15, Taher Alkhateeb a écrit :
>>
>>> Agreed Jacopo,
>>>
>>> My preference would be The "Apache OFBiz" ERP suite. The reason is
>>> that the
>>> term ERP is very popular and understandable to business folks. It also
>>> conveys the heart of what this product is all about. Yes it is not yet
>>> refined for immediate consumption by end users, but that does not prevent
>>> usage of the term.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jan 11, 2017 6:19 PM, "Jacopo Cappellato" <jacopo.cappellato@
>>> hotwaxsystems.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 3:51 PM, Julien NICOLAS
>>> <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> [...]
>>>> This is why I prefer the actual sentence "Apache OFBiz® is an open
>>>> source
>>>> product for the automation of enterprise processes that includes
>>>> framework
>>>> components and business applications"
>>>>
>>>> >From a trademark best practice perspective the above is incorrect
>>> (yeah...
>>> it is in our website) and should be changed to its equivalent:
>>>
>>> "The Apache OFBiz® open source product for the automation of enterprise
>>> processes"
>>>
>>> and its longer (descriptive) version would be:
>>>
>>> "The Apache OFBiz® open source product for the automation of enterprise
>>> processes includes framework components and business applications"
>>>
>>> A bit ugly.
>>>
>>> Jacopo
>>>
>>>
>>
> --
>
> Regards,
>
> Hans Bakker
> CEO, http://antwebsystems.com
>

--
Rupert Howell

Provolve Ltd
Front Office, Deale House, 16 Lavant Street, Petersfield, GU32 3EW, UK

t: 01730 267868 / m: 079 0968 5308
e:  [hidden email]
w: http://www.provolve.com

[swapnil]

My two cents:
"Apache OFbiz enterprise solution suite"

Thanks & Regards,
Swapnil

-----Original Message-----
From: Jacopo Cappellato [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 11:57 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: What is the "Apache OFBiz" product?

On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 6:44 PM, Nicolas Malin <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> I don't like the term ERP because is so reduced term for OFBiz dans
> all product that can register a task for a party and a product is an
> ERP
>
> I prefer "Apache OFBiz enterprise automation framework"
>
> The term ERP or Business suite will come with the plugin addition to
> the OFBiz core.
>
> Nicolas

I also like the shorter ones:

The "Apache OFBiz" enterprise framework
The "Apache OFBiz" enterprise suite (which is similar to the one proposed by
Gavin, that I also like, that has the word "business" instead on
"enterprise")
My concern with the word ERP is that it is an acronym and ends up being too
close to the word OFBiz, which is also some sort of acronym, and the
concatenated string may look confusing: "Apache OFBiz ERP".
Another concern with the name "enterprise framework" is that, when/if we
will release a separate product containing only the OFBiz framework, this
name would be confusing: in fact my preference is to allocate "framework"
for that product (if we will ever release it).

Anyway, great proposals so far... I hope the brainstorming will continue!
Any volunteer to list *all* the ideas to a Confluence page (maybe even with
relevant comments from this thread behind each proposal)?

Jacopo

[Scott Gray-3]

I prefer "Business" to "ERP" or "Enterprise" but I'm not sure about the
repeating syllables involved in saying "Apache OFBiz Business {thing}".
The biz biz doesn't flow well so I'm inclined to fall back to "Enterprise".

Another adjective to consider over "framework" might be "platform".

The framework could be marketed as:
The Apache OFBiz Enterprise Platform
with the "core" applications being:
The Apache OFBiz Core Application Suite

Regards
Scott


On 12 January 2017 at 19:26, Jacopo Cappellato <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 6:44 PM, Nicolas Malin <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > I don't like the term ERP because is so reduced term for OFBiz dans all
> > product that can register a task for a party and a product is an ERP
> >
> > I prefer "Apache OFBiz enterprise automation framework"
> >
> > The term ERP or Business suite will come with the plugin addition to the
> > OFBiz core.
> >
> > Nicolas
>
>
> I also like the shorter ones:
>
> The "Apache OFBiz" enterprise framework
> The "Apache OFBiz" enterprise suite (which is similar to the one proposed
> by Gavin, that I also like, that has the word "business" instead on
> "enterprise")
> My concern with the word ERP is that it is an acronym and ends up being too
> close to the word OFBiz, which is also some sort of acronym, and the
> concatenated string may look confusing: "Apache OFBiz ERP".
> Another concern with the name "enterprise framework" is that, when/if we
> will release a separate product containing only the OFBiz framework, this
> name would be confusing: in fact my preference is to allocate "framework"
> for that product (if we will ever release it).
>
> Anyway, great proposals so far... I hope the brainstorming will continue!
> Any volunteer to list *all* the ideas to a Confluence page (maybe even with
> relevant comments from this thread behind each proposal)?
>
> Jacopo
>

[Christian Geisert]

The "Apache OFBiz" ERP suite

I prefer ERP because this is what most people are familiar with.
Enterprise automation framework might be a better description, but in
the end, it's about selling...

Christian

Am 11.01.2017 14:51, schrieb Jacopo Cappellato:

> *Rationale*
>
> "Apache OFBiz" is one of our trademarks. And we apply it to our project and
> product; we say:
> 1) the "Apache OFBiz" project or the "Apache OFBiz" community
> 2) the "Apache OFBiz" product (i.e. the downloadable software package that
> we release)
>
> While #1 is pretty much a satisfactory definition, I find that "product" is
> a too generic term and that we could find and agree upon a more precise and
> "official" definition.
> It is worth noting that the trademark best practices says that you should
> never use the trademark on a product as a noun but rather as an adjective.
> So for example:
> - this is *not* correct (noun): "download Apache OFBiz from here"
> - this *is* correct (adjective): "download the Apache OFBiz product from
> here"
>
> *Discussion Item*
>
> Can we find a better definition for our product than... "product" or
> "software product"?
>
> For example we could consider (after reading this definition [*]):
> The "Apache OFBiz" software suite or
> The "Apache OFBiz" suite or
> The "Apache OFBiz" ERP software suite or
> The "Apache OFBiz" ERP suite
> etc...
>
> Any ideas? Please try to fill the <?> placeholder below with the string
> that you find more suited:
>
>          The "Apache OFBiz" <?>
>
> If we agree upon an "official" definition then we could use it consistently
> in our website, announcements, social media etc...
>
> Regards,
>
> Jacopo
>
> [*] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_suite
>

--
Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Christian Geisert

ISU GmbH * Bussardweg 4 * 76356 Weingarten * Germany
Tel. [phone] * Fax [phone]
www.isu-gmbh.de * [hidden email]

Geschäftsführerin: Renate Glasenapp
Amtsgericht Mannheim HRB 106505
USt.-Id Nr. DE 158792445
St.-Nr. 34 413 82630

[Olivier.heintz]

+1 to "Apache OFBiz Enterprise automation Platform"
but +1 too to "Apache OFBiz enterprise automation framework"

+1 on idea that ERP, CRM, eCommerce, ... will be the futurs products (base on "Apache OFBiz Enterprise automation PLatform" of course) from Apache
Ofbiz community or Companies

Le 12/01/2017 à 23:48, Scott Gray a écrit :

> I prefer "Business" to "ERP" or "Enterprise" but I'm not sure about the
> repeating syllables involved in saying "Apache OFBiz Business {thing}".
> The biz biz doesn't flow well so I'm inclined to fall back to "Enterprise".
>
> Another adjective to consider over "framework" might be "platform".
>
> The framework could be marketed as:
> The Apache OFBiz Enterprise Platform
> with the "core" applications being:
> The Apache OFBiz Core Application Suite
>
> Regards
> Scott
>
>
> On 12 January 2017 at 19:26, Jacopo Cappellato <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 6:44 PM, Nicolas Malin <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I don't like the term ERP because is so reduced term for OFBiz dans all
>>> product that can register a task for a party and a product is an ERP
>>>
>>> I prefer "Apache OFBiz enterprise automation framework"
>>>
>>> The term ERP or Business suite will come with the plugin addition to the
>>> OFBiz core.
>>>
>>> Nicolas
>>
>>
>> I also like the shorter ones:
>>
>> The "Apache OFBiz" enterprise framework
>> The "Apache OFBiz" enterprise suite (which is similar to the one proposed
>> by Gavin, that I also like, that has the word "business" instead on
>> "enterprise")
>> My concern with the word ERP is that it is an acronym and ends up being too
>> close to the word OFBiz, which is also some sort of acronym, and the
>> concatenated string may look confusing: "Apache OFBiz ERP".
>> Another concern with the name "enterprise framework" is that, when/if we
>> will release a separate product containing only the OFBiz framework, this
>> name would be confusing: in fact my preference is to allocate "framework"
>> for that product (if we will ever release it).
>>
>> Anyway, great proposals so far... I hope the brainstorming will continue!
>> Any volunteer to list *all* the ideas to a Confluence page (maybe even with
>> relevant comments from this thread behind each proposal)?
>>
>> Jacopo
>>
>

[Michael Brohl-3]

Thanks for starting this initiative, Jacopo.

I have started a compilation of the proposals and suggestions coming out
of this discussion here: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/x/IBUIB

@Sharan: I thought it's agood place to put it under your drafts tree,
please suggest another place if it does not fit.

Regards,

Michael


PS: Searching for a good place, I found our Wiki layout is a mess...
time to clean up and re-structure. But that's another discussion ;-)


Am 11.01.17 um 14:51 schrieb Jacopo Cappellato:

> *Rationale*
>
> "Apache OFBiz" is one of our trademarks. And we apply it to our project and
> product; we say:
> 1) the "Apache OFBiz" project or the "Apache OFBiz" community
> 2) the "Apache OFBiz" product (i.e. the downloadable software package that
> we release)
>
> While #1 is pretty much a satisfactory definition, I find that "product" is
> a too generic term and that we could find and agree upon a more precise and
> "official" definition.
> It is worth noting that the trademark best practices says that you should
> never use the trademark on a product as a noun but rather as an adjective.
> So for example:
> - this is *not* correct (noun): "download Apache OFBiz from here"
> - this *is* correct (adjective): "download the Apache OFBiz product from
> here"
>
> *Discussion Item*
>
> Can we find a better definition for our product than... "product" or
> "software product"?
>
> For example we could consider (after reading this definition [*]):
> The "Apache OFBiz" software suite or
> The "Apache OFBiz" suite or
> The "Apache OFBiz" ERP software suite or
> The "Apache OFBiz" ERP suite
> etc...
>
> Any ideas? Please try to fill the <?> placeholder below with the string
> that you find more suited:
>
>           The "Apache OFBiz" <?>
>
> If we agree upon an "official" definition then we could use it consistently
> in our website, announcements, social media etc...
>
> Regards,
>
> Jacopo
>
> [*] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_suite
>

[Michael Brohl-3]

addition: I took the freedom to adjust the uppercase/lowercase of the
proposals.


Am 14.01.17 um 10:53 schrieb Michael Brohl:

> Thanks for starting this initiative, Jacopo.
>
> I have started a compilation of the proposals and suggestions coming
> out of this discussion here: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/x/IBUIB
>
> @Sharan: I thought it's agood place to put it under your drafts tree,
> please suggest another place if it does not fit.
>
> Regards,
>
> Michael
>
>
> PS: Searching for a good place, I found our Wiki layout is a mess...
> time to clean up and re-structure. But that's another discussion ;-)
>
>
> Am 11.01.17 um 14:51 schrieb Jacopo Cappellato:
>> *Rationale*
>>
>> "Apache OFBiz" is one of our trademarks. And we apply it to our
>> project and
>> product; we say:
>> 1) the "Apache OFBiz" project or the "Apache OFBiz" community
>> 2) the "Apache OFBiz" product (i.e. the downloadable software package
>> that
>> we release)
>>
>> While #1 is pretty much a satisfactory definition, I find that
>> "product" is
>> a too generic term and that we could find and agree upon a more
>> precise and
>> "official" definition.
>> It is worth noting that the trademark best practices says that you
>> should
>> never use the trademark on a product as a noun but rather as an
>> adjective.
>> So for example:
>> - this is *not* correct (noun): "download Apache OFBiz from here"
>> - this *is* correct (adjective): "download the Apache OFBiz product from
>> here"
>>
>> *Discussion Item*
>>
>> Can we find a better definition for our product than... "product" or
>> "software product"?
>>
>> For example we could consider (after reading this definition [*]):
>> The "Apache OFBiz" software suite or
>> The "Apache OFBiz" suite or
>> The "Apache OFBiz" ERP software suite or
>> The "Apache OFBiz" ERP suite
>> etc...
>>
>> Any ideas? Please try to fill the <?> placeholder below with the string
>> that you find more suited:
>>
>>           The "Apache OFBiz" <?>
>>
>> If we agree upon an "official" definition then we could use it
>> consistently
>> in our website, announcements, social media etc...
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Jacopo
>>
>> [*] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_suite
>>
>
>

[Gavin Mabie-2]

Thanks Michael. The list makes the differences stand out clearly.

Gavin

On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 11:55 AM, Michael Brohl <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> addition: I took the freedom to adjust the uppercase/lowercase of the
> proposals.
>
>
> Am 14.01.17 um 10:53 schrieb Michael Brohl:
>
> Thanks for starting this initiative, Jacopo.
>>
>> I have started a compilation of the proposals and suggestions coming out
>> of this discussion here: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/x/IBUIB
>>
>> @Sharan: I thought it's agood place to put it under your drafts tree,
>> please suggest another place if it does not fit.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Michael
>>
>>
>> PS: Searching for a good place, I found our Wiki layout is a mess... time
>> to clean up and re-structure. But that's another discussion ;-)
>>
>>
>> Am 11.01.17 um 14:51 schrieb Jacopo Cappellato:
>>
>>> *Rationale*
>>>
>>> "Apache OFBiz" is one of our trademarks. And we apply it to our project
>>> and
>>> product; we say:
>>> 1) the "Apache OFBiz" project or the "Apache OFBiz" community
>>> 2) the "Apache OFBiz" product (i.e. the downloadable software package
>>> that
>>> we release)
>>>
>>> While #1 is pretty much a satisfactory definition, I find that "product"
>>> is
>>> a too generic term and that we could find and agree upon a more precise
>>> and
>>> "official" definition.
>>> It is worth noting that the trademark best practices says that you should
>>> never use the trademark on a product as a noun but rather as an
>>> adjective.
>>> So for example:
>>> - this is *not* correct (noun): "download Apache OFBiz from here"
>>> - this *is* correct (adjective): "download the Apache OFBiz product from
>>> here"
>>>
>>> *Discussion Item*
>>>
>>> Can we find a better definition for our product than... "product" or
>>> "software product"?
>>>
>>> For example we could consider (after reading this definition [*]):
>>> The "Apache OFBiz" software suite or
>>> The "Apache OFBiz" suite or
>>> The "Apache OFBiz" ERP software suite or
>>> The "Apache OFBiz" ERP suite
>>> etc...
>>>
>>> Any ideas? Please try to fill the <?> placeholder below with the string
>>> that you find more suited:
>>>
>>>           The "Apache OFBiz" <?>
>>>
>>> If we agree upon an "official" definition then we could use it
>>> consistently
>>> in our website, announcements, social media etc...
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Jacopo
>>>
>>> [*] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_suite
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

[taher]

Very interesting, Michael's work actually made me realize that we should
think about the name differently.

Given our discussion in another thread about breaking down the repositories
into multiple chunks (http://markmail.org/message/bjvqu23ofwzuk57y) I think
we should consider multiple names for multiple purposes.

Maybe this thread started a little bit early because we did not yet decide
on how to break the code. But if we break the code similar to the way it
was discussed in the above thread, then maybe we should have multiple names:

layer 1: The Apache OFBiz Enterprise Automation Framework
layer 2: The Apache OFBiz Data Model And Service Library
layer 3: The Apache OFBiz ERP Application
layer 4: The Apache OFBiz Plugins

On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 1:02 PM, Gavin Mabie <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Thanks Michael. The list makes the differences stand out clearly.
>
> Gavin
>
> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 11:55 AM, Michael Brohl <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > addition: I took the freedom to adjust the uppercase/lowercase of the
> > proposals.
> >
> >
> > Am 14.01.17 um 10:53 schrieb Michael Brohl:
> >
> > Thanks for starting this initiative, Jacopo.
> >>
> >> I have started a compilation of the proposals and suggestions coming out
> >> of this discussion here: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/x/IBUIB
> >>
> >> @Sharan: I thought it's agood place to put it under your drafts tree,
> >> please suggest another place if it does not fit.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> Michael
> >>
> >>
> >> PS: Searching for a good place, I found our Wiki layout is a mess...
> time
> >> to clean up and re-structure. But that's another discussion ;-)
> >>
> >>
> >> Am 11.01.17 um 14:51 schrieb Jacopo Cappellato:
> >>
> >>> *Rationale*
> >>>
> >>> "Apache OFBiz" is one of our trademarks. And we apply it to our project
> >>> and
> >>> product; we say:
> >>> 1) the "Apache OFBiz" project or the "Apache OFBiz" community
> >>> 2) the "Apache OFBiz" product (i.e. the downloadable software package
> >>> that
> >>> we release)
> >>>
> >>> While #1 is pretty much a satisfactory definition, I find that
> "product"
> >>> is
> >>> a too generic term and that we could find and agree upon a more precise
> >>> and
> >>> "official" definition.
> >>> It is worth noting that the trademark best practices says that you
> should
> >>> never use the trademark on a product as a noun but rather as an
> >>> adjective.
> >>> So for example:
> >>> - this is *not* correct (noun): "download Apache OFBiz from here"
> >>> - this *is* correct (adjective): "download the Apache OFBiz product
> from
> >>> here"
> >>>
> >>> *Discussion Item*
> >>>
> >>> Can we find a better definition for our product than... "product" or
> >>> "software product"?
> >>>
> >>> For example we could consider (after reading this definition [*]):
> >>> The "Apache OFBiz" software suite or
> >>> The "Apache OFBiz" suite or
> >>> The "Apache OFBiz" ERP software suite or
> >>> The "Apache OFBiz" ERP suite
> >>> etc...
> >>>
> >>> Any ideas? Please try to fill the <?> placeholder below with the string
> >>> that you find more suited:
> >>>
> >>>           The "Apache OFBiz" <?>
> >>>
> >>> If we agree upon an "official" definition then we could use it
> >>> consistently
> >>> in our website, announcements, social media etc...
> >>>
> >>> Regards,
> >>>
> >>> Jacopo
> >>>
> >>> [*] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_suite
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>

[Jacopo Cappellato-5]

On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 11:21 AM, Taher Alkhateeb <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> [...]

But if we break the code similar to the way it
> was discussed in the above thread, then maybe we should have multiple
> names:
>

I agree we should find a product name for each of our (future) products.


> layer 1: The Apache OFBiz Enterprise Automation Framework
> layer 2: The Apache OFBiz Data Model And Service Library
> layer 3: The Apache OFBiz ERP Application
> layer 4: The Apache OFBiz Plugins
>

Or we could separate the name from its description like:

layer 1: The Apache OFBiz Enterprise Automation Framework         is a
platform...

layer 2: The Apache OFBiz Core            provides Data Model And Service
Library...

layer 3: The Apache OFBiz ERP Application          is a suite of
applications for enterprises...
layer 4: The Apache OFBiz Plugins         are extensions for
enterprises.....

Jacopo

[Jacques Le Roux]

I think it's indeed a better way to think about it, as Jacopo explained we can deliver several products

Jacques


Le 14/01/2017 à 11:21, Taher Alkhateeb a écrit :

> Very interesting, Michael's work actually made me realize that we should
> think about the name differently.
>
> Given our discussion in another thread about breaking down the repositories
> into multiple chunks (http://markmail.org/message/bjvqu23ofwzuk57y) I think
> we should consider multiple names for multiple purposes.
>
> Maybe this thread started a little bit early because we did not yet decide
> on how to break the code. But if we break the code similar to the way it
> was discussed in the above thread, then maybe we should have multiple names:
>
> layer 1: The Apache OFBiz Enterprise Automation Framework
> layer 2: The Apache OFBiz Data Model And Service Library
> layer 3: The Apache OFBiz ERP Application
> layer 4: The Apache OFBiz Plugins
>
> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 1:02 PM, Gavin Mabie <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Thanks Michael. The list makes the differences stand out clearly.
>>
>> Gavin
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 11:55 AM, Michael Brohl <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> addition: I took the freedom to adjust the uppercase/lowercase of the
>>> proposals.
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 14.01.17 um 10:53 schrieb Michael Brohl:
>>>
>>> Thanks for starting this initiative, Jacopo.
>>>> I have started a compilation of the proposals and suggestions coming out
>>>> of this discussion here: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/x/IBUIB
>>>>
>>>> @Sharan: I thought it's agood place to put it under your drafts tree,
>>>> please suggest another place if it does not fit.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Michael
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> PS: Searching for a good place, I found our Wiki layout is a mess...
>> time
>>>> to clean up and re-structure. But that's another discussion ;-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Am 11.01.17 um 14:51 schrieb Jacopo Cappellato:
>>>>
>>>>> *Rationale*
>>>>>
>>>>> "Apache OFBiz" is one of our trademarks. And we apply it to our project
>>>>> and
>>>>> product; we say:
>>>>> 1) the "Apache OFBiz" project or the "Apache OFBiz" community
>>>>> 2) the "Apache OFBiz" product (i.e. the downloadable software package
>>>>> that
>>>>> we release)
>>>>>
>>>>> While #1 is pretty much a satisfactory definition, I find that
>> "product"
>>>>> is
>>>>> a too generic term and that we could find and agree upon a more precise
>>>>> and
>>>>> "official" definition.
>>>>> It is worth noting that the trademark best practices says that you
>> should
>>>>> never use the trademark on a product as a noun but rather as an
>>>>> adjective.
>>>>> So for example:
>>>>> - this is *not* correct (noun): "download Apache OFBiz from here"
>>>>> - this *is* correct (adjective): "download the Apache OFBiz product
>> from
>>>>> here"
>>>>>
>>>>> *Discussion Item*
>>>>>
>>>>> Can we find a better definition for our product than... "product" or
>>>>> "software product"?
>>>>>
>>>>> For example we could consider (after reading this definition [*]):
>>>>> The "Apache OFBiz" software suite or
>>>>> The "Apache OFBiz" suite or
>>>>> The "Apache OFBiz" ERP software suite or
>>>>> The "Apache OFBiz" ERP suite
>>>>> etc...
>>>>>
>>>>> Any ideas? Please try to fill the <?> placeholder below with the string
>>>>> that you find more suited:
>>>>>
>>>>>            The "Apache OFBiz" <?>
>>>>>
>>>>> If we agree upon an "official" definition then we could use it
>>>>> consistently
>>>>> in our website, announcements, social media etc...
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Jacopo
>>>>>
>>>>> [*] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_suite
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>

[taher]

Very nice Jacopo, I really like it. Each layer communicates its intent
clearly, and maps nicely to the name of the svn repository
(ofbiz-framework, ofbiz-core, ofbiz-erp, ofbiz-plugins)

On Jan 14, 2017 1:37 PM, "Jacopo Cappellato" <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 11:21 AM, Taher Alkhateeb <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > [...]
>
> But if we break the code similar to the way it
> > was discussed in the above thread, then maybe we should have multiple
> > names:
> >
>
> I agree we should find a product name for each of our (future) products.
>
>
> > layer 1: The Apache OFBiz Enterprise Automation Framework
> > layer 2: The Apache OFBiz Data Model And Service Library
> > layer 3: The Apache OFBiz ERP Application
> > layer 4: The Apache OFBiz Plugins
> >
>
> Or we could separate the name from its description like:
>
> layer 1: The Apache OFBiz Enterprise Automation Framework         is a
> platform...
>
> layer 2: The Apache OFBiz Core            provides Data Model And Service
> Library...
>
> layer 3: The Apache OFBiz ERP Application          is a suite of
> applications for enterprises...
> layer 4: The Apache OFBiz Plugins         are extensions for
> enterprises.....
>
> Jacopo
>