Wrong Assumption?

[Muhammad Aamir]

I am new to ofbiz ERP and trying to understand how it works. I've just read
Party and Accounting chapters from Data Model Resource Book Vol 1. After a
quick glance on the modules (Party and Accounting) of ofbiz, following is my
first impression I would like to share with you and request you to correct
if I am assuming anything wrong:


   - The data model presented in Data Model Resource book captures the
   static model of the system and doesn't focus on the business rules that
   validate, generate, drive or process that data.

   - ofbiz might be a  beautiful implementation of data models presented in
   the book, however it is merely a collection of ugly screens that ignores
   significant business rules and just provide data entry mechanism for the
   tables that implement the models mentioned in the book.

   - For example in Party module, a Person, who already has a role Employee,
   can have additional roles of Organization Unit, Internal Organization and in
   fact any other role (which of course doesn't make any sense).

   - According to the Data Model Resource book, Internal Accounting
   Transactions are not associated with any party and when doing External
   Transactions we usually need to refer party(ies). However, I was able to do
   a GL transaction for asset depreciation and also referred Party and in fact
   any other detail.

Numerous examples like above can be easily given. Is it really like this
that ofbiz is only a mechanism to quickly populate the tables that implement
the models presented in that book and may be in some other book(s)?

Regards
Muhammad Aamir

[David E Jones-3]

It sounds like you're starting to scratch the surface. Best wishes on  
a more thorough and deep review.

-David


On Mar 10, 2009, at 10:22 PM, Muhammad Aamir wrote:

> I am new to ofbiz ERP and trying to understand how it works. I've  
> just read
> Party and Accounting chapters from Data Model Resource Book Vol 1.  
> After a
> quick glance on the modules (Party and Accounting) of ofbiz,  
> following is my
> first impression I would like to share with you and request you to  
> correct
> if I am assuming anything wrong:
>
>
>   - The data model presented in Data Model Resource book captures the
>   static model of the system and doesn't focus on the business rules  
> that
>   validate, generate, drive or process that data.
>
>   - ofbiz might be a  beautiful implementation of data models  
> presented in
>   the book, however it is merely a collection of ugly screens that  
> ignores
>   significant business rules and just provide data entry mechanism  
> for the
>   tables that implement the models mentioned in the book.
>
>   - For example in Party module, a Person, who already has a role  
> Employee,
>   can have additional roles of Organization Unit, Internal  
> Organization and in
>   fact any other role (which of course doesn't make any sense).
>
>   - According to the Data Model Resource book, Internal Accounting
>   Transactions are not associated with any party and when doing  
> External
>   Transactions we usually need to refer party(ies). However, I was  
> able to do
>   a GL transaction for asset depreciation and also referred Party  
> and in fact
>   any other detail.
>
> Numerous examples like above can be easily given. Is it really like  
> this
> that ofbiz is only a mechanism to quickly populate the tables that  
> implement
> the models presented in that book and may be in some other book(s)?
>
> Regards
> Muhammad Aamir

[BJ Freeman]

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You sound like i did when I started.
One thing I am picking up, is your expectation of a finished program.
More ofbiz, in IMHO, is a toolbox to let you build what you want.
you mention that a party can have all sorts of possibilities. That is
true however there is security in place as to who can do this. so it not
something that everyone that logs in can do.
you will find a infrastructure to implement business flow and be able to
add you own flavor for the industry that you to set this up for.
Though the UI, is getting better, it also uses a function I really like.
if you add to the entity more structure, you don't have to spend a lot
of time adding to the UI it is just there.
Since this is a community effort any expertise you have to work on the
areas you feel have sort comings is more than welcome.

you may have already found this
http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBADMIN/Apache+OFBiz+Getting+Started
there is a section on contributing.

and Welcome.

Muhammad Aamir sent the following on 3/10/2009 9:22 PM:

> I am new to ofbiz ERP and trying to understand how it works. I've just read
> Party and Accounting chapters from Data Model Resource Book Vol 1. After a
> quick glance on the modules (Party and Accounting) of ofbiz, following is my
> first impression I would like to share with you and request you to correct
> if I am assuming anything wrong:
>
>
>    - The data model presented in Data Model Resource book captures the
>    static model of the system and doesn't focus on the business rules that
>    validate, generate, drive or process that data.
>
>    - ofbiz might be a  beautiful implementation of data models presented in
>    the book, however it is merely a collection of ugly screens that ignores
>    significant business rules and just provide data entry mechanism for the
>    tables that implement the models mentioned in the book.
>
>    - For example in Party module, a Person, who already has a role Employee,
>    can have additional roles of Organization Unit, Internal Organization and in
>    fact any other role (which of course doesn't make any sense).
>
>    - According to the Data Model Resource book, Internal Accounting
>    Transactions are not associated with any party and when doing External
>    Transactions we usually need to refer party(ies). However, I was able to do
>    a GL transaction for asset depreciation and also referred Party and in fact
>    any other detail.
>
> Numerous examples like above can be easily given. Is it really like this
> that ofbiz is only a mechanism to quickly populate the tables that implement
> the models presented in that book and may be in some other book(s)?
>
> Regards
> Muhammad Aamir
>

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[Adrian Crum]

Muhammad Aamir wrote:
>    - For example in Party module, a Person, who already has a role Employee,
>    can have additional roles of Organization Unit, Internal Organization and in
>    fact any other role (which of course doesn't make any sense).

Why wouldn't multiple roles for a person make sense? Where I work, an
employee could also be a supplier (the employee does work on the side
for the company on a contract basis). We also have a person who is not
an employee, but has the dual roles of dealer and outside sales rep.

What you perceive as a lack of business rules is actually an accurate
model of the real world.

-Adrian

[Muhammad Aamir]

Hi Adrian,

Don't get me wrong, I didn't say multiple roles doesn't make sense. What
doesn't make sense (at least to me) that a Person can play a role of
Organizational Unit, Department or Internal Organization along with an
Employee role. (See the data model of Party, two subtype of Party are Person
and Organization (or PersonGroup), meaning a Party cannot be a Person as
well as Organization simultaneously).

Regards
Muhammad Aamir


On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 5:57 PM, Adrian Crum <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Muhammad Aamir wrote:
>
>>   - For example in Party module, a Person, who already has a role
>> Employee,
>>   can have additional roles of Organization Unit, Internal Organization
>> and in
>>   fact any other role (which of course doesn't make any sense).
>>
>
> Why wouldn't multiple roles for a person make sense? Where I work, an
> employee could also be a supplier (the employee does work on the side for
> the company on a contract basis). We also have a person who is not an
> employee, but has the dual roles of dealer and outside sales rep.
>
> What you perceive as a lack of business rules is actually an accurate model
> of the real world.
>
> -Adrian
>
>

[David E Jones-3]

If you look at the way the roles are structured there are certain  
roles that are only for organizations and other roles that are only  
for individuals, and others that are for any.

However, because there are situations where users don't want to  
restrict this it is not enforced by default.

-David


On Mar 11, 2009, at 1:14 PM, Muhammad Aamir wrote:

> Hi Adrian,
>
> Don't get me wrong, I didn't say multiple roles doesn't make sense.  
> What
> doesn't make sense (at least to me) that a Person can play a role of
> Organizational Unit, Department or Internal Organization along with an
> Employee role. (See the data model of Party, two subtype of Party  
> are Person
> and Organization (or PersonGroup), meaning a Party cannot be a  
> Person as
> well as Organization simultaneously).
>
> Regards
> Muhammad Aamir
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 5:57 PM, Adrian Crum <[hidden email]>  
> wrote:
>
>> Muhammad Aamir wrote:
>>
>>>  - For example in Party module, a Person, who already has a role
>>> Employee,
>>>  can have additional roles of Organization Unit, Internal  
>>> Organization
>>> and in
>>>  fact any other role (which of course doesn't make any sense).
>>>
>>
>> Why wouldn't multiple roles for a person make sense? Where I work, an
>> employee could also be a supplier (the employee does work on the  
>> side for
>> the company on a contract basis). We also have a person who is not an
>> employee, but has the dual roles of dealer and outside sales rep.
>>
>> What you perceive as a lack of business rules is actually an  
>> accurate model
>> of the real world.
>>
>> -Adrian
>>
>>