discussion: b2b versus b2c

[hans_bakker]

At the moment the system is focused being a b2c (business to consumer)
system. We are now getting more and more requests for systems mainly for
b2b (business to business)

The main difference is that in the b2c case the order/invoice is for the
person and in a b2b the order/invoice is for the related company of that
person.

In the registration process a person can register referring to a
company, a second person can register to the same company however
somewhere needs to be a approval process.....

I was thinking introducing a system parameter to make the related
company of a person mandatory or not....

any thoughts on this?

Regards,
Hans

[Adrian Crum-3]

There is no need to make it mandatory, just supply a default if one
isn't explicitly assigned (the "Company" internal organization for example).

-Adrian

On 3/5/2012 8:13 AM, Hans Bakker wrote:

> At the moment the system is focused being a b2c (business to consumer)
> system. We are now getting more and more requests for systems mainly
> for b2b (business to business)
>
> The main difference is that in the b2c case the order/invoice is for
> the person and in a b2b the order/invoice is for the related company
> of that person.
>
> In the registration process a person can register referring to a
> company, a second person can register to the same company however
> somewhere needs to be a approval process.....
>
> I was thinking introducing a system parameter to make the related
> company of a person mandatory or not....
>
> any thoughts on this?
>
> Regards,
> Hans

[hans_bakker]

Adrian it is much more than that, when he enters an order in ecommerce
the order should be for his company and not for him personally, he
should be able to see the data/oders of his company (also entered by
others) and there are many other cases......


On 03/05/2012 03:16 PM, Adrian Crum wrote:

> There is no need to make it mandatory, just supply a default if one
> isn't explicitly assigned (the "Company" internal organization for
> example).
>
> -Adrian
>
> On 3/5/2012 8:13 AM, Hans Bakker wrote:
>> At the moment the system is focused being a b2c (business to
>> consumer) system. We are now getting more and more requests for
>> systems mainly for b2b (business to business)
>>
>> The main difference is that in the b2c case the order/invoice is for
>> the person and in a b2b the order/invoice is for the related company
>> of that person.
>>
>> In the registration process a person can register referring to a
>> company, a second person can register to the same company however
>> somewhere needs to be a approval process.....
>>
>> I was thinking introducing a system parameter to make the related
>> company of a person mandatory or not....
>>
>> any thoughts on this?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Hans

[Adrian Crum-3]

Actually, it is quite simple, and I have discussed this many times. The
user is assigned to an internal organization (using the UserPreference
entity). When a user creates an order, they are assigned to the order in
the role of ORDER TAKER and their internal organization is assigned to
the order in the role of INTERNAL ORGANIZATION. Finding orders by user
or by internal organization is easy.

-Adrian


On 3/5/2012 8:20 AM, Hans Bakker wrote:

> Adrian it is much more than that, when he enters an order in ecommerce
> the order should be for his company and not for him personally, he
> should be able to see the data/oders of his company (also entered by
> others) and there are many other cases......
>
>
> On 03/05/2012 03:16 PM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>> There is no need to make it mandatory, just supply a default if one
>> isn't explicitly assigned (the "Company" internal organization for
>> example).
>>
>> -Adrian
>>
>> On 3/5/2012 8:13 AM, Hans Bakker wrote:
>>> At the moment the system is focused being a b2c (business to
>>> consumer) system. We are now getting more and more requests for
>>> systems mainly for b2b (business to business)
>>>
>>> The main difference is that in the b2c case the order/invoice is for
>>> the person and in a b2b the order/invoice is for the related company
>>> of that person.
>>>
>>> In the registration process a person can register referring to a
>>> company, a second person can register to the same company however
>>> somewhere needs to be a approval process.....
>>>
>>> I was thinking introducing a system parameter to make the related
>>> company of a person mandatory or not....
>>>
>>> any thoughts on this?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Hans
>

[hans_bakker]

You are implying that the system at the moment works that way?

if they go to ecommerce the entered order is assigned to the related
internal organization? Same for quote and request? they can see all
orders for that internal organization?

On 03/05/2012 03:25 PM, Adrian Crum wrote:

> Actually, it is quite simple, and I have discussed this many times.
> The user is assigned to an internal organization (using the
> UserPreference entity). When a user creates an order, they are
> assigned to the order in the role of ORDER TAKER and their internal
> organization is assigned to the order in the role of INTERNAL
> ORGANIZATION. Finding orders by user or by internal organization is easy.
>
> -Adrian
>
>
> On 3/5/2012 8:20 AM, Hans Bakker wrote:
>> Adrian it is much more than that, when he enters an order in
>> ecommerce the order should be for his company and not for him
>> personally, he should be able to see the data/oders of his company
>> (also entered by others) and there are many other cases......
>>
>>
>> On 03/05/2012 03:16 PM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>> There is no need to make it mandatory, just supply a default if one
>>> isn't explicitly assigned (the "Company" internal organization for
>>> example).
>>>
>>> -Adrian
>>>
>>> On 3/5/2012 8:13 AM, Hans Bakker wrote:
>>>> At the moment the system is focused being a b2c (business to
>>>> consumer) system. We are now getting more and more requests for
>>>> systems mainly for b2b (business to business)
>>>>
>>>> The main difference is that in the b2c case the order/invoice is
>>>> for the person and in a b2b the order/invoice is for the related
>>>> company of that person.
>>>>
>>>> In the registration process a person can register referring to a
>>>> company, a second person can register to the same company however
>>>> somewhere needs to be a approval process.....
>>>>
>>>> I was thinking introducing a system parameter to make the related
>>>> company of a person mandatory or not....
>>>>
>>>> any thoughts on this?
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Hans
>>

[Adrian Crum-3]

No, I am not implying that. Like you said, the current system does not
work that way.

-Adrian

On 3/5/2012 8:30 AM, Hans Bakker wrote:

> You are implying that the system at the moment works that way?
>
> if they go to ecommerce the entered order is assigned to the related
> internal organization? Same for quote and request? they can see all
> orders for that internal organization?
>
> On 03/05/2012 03:25 PM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>> Actually, it is quite simple, and I have discussed this many times.
>> The user is assigned to an internal organization (using the
>> UserPreference entity). When a user creates an order, they are
>> assigned to the order in the role of ORDER TAKER and their internal
>> organization is assigned to the order in the role of INTERNAL
>> ORGANIZATION. Finding orders by user or by internal organization is
>> easy.
>>
>> -Adrian
>>
>>
>> On 3/5/2012 8:20 AM, Hans Bakker wrote:
>>> Adrian it is much more than that, when he enters an order in
>>> ecommerce the order should be for his company and not for him
>>> personally, he should be able to see the data/oders of his company
>>> (also entered by others) and there are many other cases......
>>>
>>>
>>> On 03/05/2012 03:16 PM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>> There is no need to make it mandatory, just supply a default if one
>>>> isn't explicitly assigned (the "Company" internal organization for
>>>> example).
>>>>
>>>> -Adrian
>>>>
>>>> On 3/5/2012 8:13 AM, Hans Bakker wrote:
>>>>> At the moment the system is focused being a b2c (business to
>>>>> consumer) system. We are now getting more and more requests for
>>>>> systems mainly for b2b (business to business)
>>>>>
>>>>> The main difference is that in the b2c case the order/invoice is
>>>>> for the person and in a b2b the order/invoice is for the related
>>>>> company of that person.
>>>>>
>>>>> In the registration process a person can register referring to a
>>>>> company, a second person can register to the same company however
>>>>> somewhere needs to be a approval process.....
>>>>>
>>>>> I was thinking introducing a system parameter to make the related
>>>>> company of a person mandatory or not....
>>>>>
>>>>> any thoughts on this?
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Hans
>>>
>

[Malin Nicolas]

Hi Hans,

The most of the works on addons concerns the B2B with order, crm, quote,
service, stock. I don't think it's a good solution to import in OFBiz
all functionalities B2B and B2C with parameters selection. This may make
them difficult to maintain business services.

Nicolas

Le 05/03/2012 09:33, Adrian Crum a écrit :

> No, I am not implying that. Like you said, the current system does not
> work that way.
>
> -Adrian
>
> On 3/5/2012 8:30 AM, Hans Bakker wrote:
>> You are implying that the system at the moment works that way?
>>
>> if they go to ecommerce the entered order is assigned to the related
>> internal organization? Same for quote and request? they can see all
>> orders for that internal organization?
>>
>> On 03/05/2012 03:25 PM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>> Actually, it is quite simple, and I have discussed this many times.
>>> The user is assigned to an internal organization (using the
>>> UserPreference entity). When a user creates an order, they are
>>> assigned to the order in the role of ORDER TAKER and their internal
>>> organization is assigned to the order in the role of INTERNAL
>>> ORGANIZATION. Finding orders by user or by internal organization is
>>> easy.
>>>
>>> -Adrian
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/5/2012 8:20 AM, Hans Bakker wrote:
>>>> Adrian it is much more than that, when he enters an order in
>>>> ecommerce the order should be for his company and not for him
>>>> personally, he should be able to see the data/oders of his company
>>>> (also entered by others) and there are many other cases......
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 03/05/2012 03:16 PM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>> There is no need to make it mandatory, just supply a default if
>>>>> one isn't explicitly assigned (the "Company" internal organization
>>>>> for example).
>>>>>
>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/5/2012 8:13 AM, Hans Bakker wrote:
>>>>>> At the moment the system is focused being a b2c (business to
>>>>>> consumer) system. We are now getting more and more requests for
>>>>>> systems mainly for b2b (business to business)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The main difference is that in the b2c case the order/invoice is
>>>>>> for the person and in a b2b the order/invoice is for the related
>>>>>> company of that person.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In the registration process a person can register referring to a
>>>>>> company, a second person can register to the same company however
>>>>>> somewhere needs to be a approval process.....
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I was thinking introducing a system parameter to make the related
>>>>>> company of a person mandatory or not....
>>>>>>
>>>>>> any thoughts on this?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> Hans
>>>>
>>

--
Nicolas MALIN
Consultant
Tél : [phone]
Site projet : http://www.neogia.org/
-------
Société LibrenBerry
Tél : [phone]
Site : http://www.librenberry.net/

[hans_bakker]

Adrian, since we already have the person/company relationship in the
party general list I would rather use that relationship. Internal
organization could be confused with the company internal organization of
the company running the system and with accounting.

For nicolas, sure, any addition will have this disadvantage. should be
not not add any functionality any more? this is the second time we get
this request, should we implement it over and over?

Currently i am thinking adding a general.properties system variable to
indicate the major purpose of the system: b2c (as currently) and b2b to
be implemented.

Regards,
Hans

On 03/05/2012 03:40 PM, Nicolas Malin wrote:

> Hi Hans,
>
> The most of the works on addons concerns the B2B with order, crm,
> quote, service, stock. I don't think it's a good solution to import in
> OFBiz all functionalities B2B and B2C with parameters selection. This
> may make them difficult to maintain business services.
>
> Nicolas
>
> Le 05/03/2012 09:33, Adrian Crum a écrit :
>> No, I am not implying that. Like you said, the current system does
>> not work that way.
>>
>> -Adrian
>>
>> On 3/5/2012 8:30 AM, Hans Bakker wrote:
>>> You are implying that the system at the moment works that way?
>>>
>>> if they go to ecommerce the entered order is assigned to the related
>>> internal organization? Same for quote and request? they can see all
>>> orders for that internal organization?
>>>
>>> On 03/05/2012 03:25 PM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>> Actually, it is quite simple, and I have discussed this many times.
>>>> The user is assigned to an internal organization (using the
>>>> UserPreference entity). When a user creates an order, they are
>>>> assigned to the order in the role of ORDER TAKER and their internal
>>>> organization is assigned to the order in the role of INTERNAL
>>>> ORGANIZATION. Finding orders by user or by internal organization is
>>>> easy.
>>>>
>>>> -Adrian
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 3/5/2012 8:20 AM, Hans Bakker wrote:
>>>>> Adrian it is much more than that, when he enters an order in
>>>>> ecommerce the order should be for his company and not for him
>>>>> personally, he should be able to see the data/oders of his company
>>>>> (also entered by others) and there are many other cases......
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 03/05/2012 03:16 PM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>> There is no need to make it mandatory, just supply a default if
>>>>>> one isn't explicitly assigned (the "Company" internal
>>>>>> organization for example).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/5/2012 8:13 AM, Hans Bakker wrote:
>>>>>>> At the moment the system is focused being a b2c (business to
>>>>>>> consumer) system. We are now getting more and more requests for
>>>>>>> systems mainly for b2b (business to business)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The main difference is that in the b2c case the order/invoice is
>>>>>>> for the person and in a b2b the order/invoice is for the related
>>>>>>> company of that person.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In the registration process a person can register referring to a
>>>>>>> company, a second person can register to the same company
>>>>>>> however somewhere needs to be a approval process.....
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I was thinking introducing a system parameter to make the
>>>>>>> related company of a person mandatory or not....
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> any thoughts on this?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>> Hans
>>>>>
>>>
>
>

[Adrian Crum-3]

If you want to discuss designs, then list the parties and their roles
and we can all agree on how those parties are related to orders and
other documents.

Or you can ignore everyone's advice and do as you please.

Also, this discussion should be on the dev list if anything is going to
be committed to the project.

-Adrian

On 3/5/2012 9:21 AM, Hans Bakker wrote:

> Adrian, since we already have the person/company relationship in the
> party general list I would rather use that relationship. Internal
> organization could be confused with the company internal organization
> of the company running the system and with accounting.
>
> For nicolas, sure, any addition will have this disadvantage. should be
> not not add any functionality any more? this is the second time we get
> this request, should we implement it over and over?
>
> Currently i am thinking adding a general.properties system variable to
> indicate the major purpose of the system: b2c (as currently) and b2b
> to be implemented.
>
> Regards,
> Hans
>
> On 03/05/2012 03:40 PM, Nicolas Malin wrote:
>> Hi Hans,
>>
>> The most of the works on addons concerns the B2B with order, crm,
>> quote, service, stock. I don't think it's a good solution to import
>> in OFBiz all functionalities B2B and B2C with parameters selection.
>> This may make them difficult to maintain business services.
>>
>> Nicolas
>>
>> Le 05/03/2012 09:33, Adrian Crum a écrit :
>>> No, I am not implying that. Like you said, the current system does
>>> not work that way.
>>>
>>> -Adrian
>>>
>>> On 3/5/2012 8:30 AM, Hans Bakker wrote:
>>>> You are implying that the system at the moment works that way?
>>>>
>>>> if they go to ecommerce the entered order is assigned to the
>>>> related internal organization? Same for quote and request? they can
>>>> see all orders for that internal organization?
>>>>
>>>> On 03/05/2012 03:25 PM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>> Actually, it is quite simple, and I have discussed this many
>>>>> times. The user is assigned to an internal organization (using the
>>>>> UserPreference entity). When a user creates an order, they are
>>>>> assigned to the order in the role of ORDER TAKER and their
>>>>> internal organization is assigned to the order in the role of
>>>>> INTERNAL ORGANIZATION. Finding orders by user or by internal
>>>>> organization is easy.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/5/2012 8:20 AM, Hans Bakker wrote:
>>>>>> Adrian it is much more than that, when he enters an order in
>>>>>> ecommerce the order should be for his company and not for him
>>>>>> personally, he should be able to see the data/oders of his
>>>>>> company (also entered by others) and there are many other
>>>>>> cases......
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 03/05/2012 03:16 PM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>> There is no need to make it mandatory, just supply a default if
>>>>>>> one isn't explicitly assigned (the "Company" internal
>>>>>>> organization for example).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/5/2012 8:13 AM, Hans Bakker wrote:
>>>>>>>> At the moment the system is focused being a b2c (business to
>>>>>>>> consumer) system. We are now getting more and more requests for
>>>>>>>> systems mainly for b2b (business to business)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The main difference is that in the b2c case the order/invoice
>>>>>>>> is for the person and in a b2b the order/invoice is for the
>>>>>>>> related company of that person.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In the registration process a person can register referring to
>>>>>>>> a company, a second person can register to the same company
>>>>>>>> however somewhere needs to be a approval process.....
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I was thinking introducing a system parameter to make the
>>>>>>>> related company of a person mandatory or not....
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> any thoughts on this?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>> Hans
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>

[Jacopo Cappellato-4]

On Mar 5, 2012, at 9:20 AM, Hans Bakker wrote:

> Adrian it is much more than that, when he enters an order in ecommerce the order should be for his company and not for him personally, he should be able to see the data/oders of his company (also entered by others) and there are many other cases......

Hans I agree that it is much much more than this: in fact, if you are planning to contribute part of your work to OFBiz, you should come to us with a complete list of requirements so that we can better suggest a solution that is also a good fit for the project.

Jacopo

[Malin Nicolas]

Le 05/03/2012 10:21, Hans Bakker a écrit :
> Adrian, since we already have the person/company relationship in the
> party general list I would rather use that relationship. Internal
> organization could be confused with the company internal organization
> of the company running the system and with accounting.
>
> For nicolas, sure, any addition will have this disadvantage. should be
> not not add any functionality any more? this is the second time we get
> this request, should we implement it over and over?

I just want to warn about the fact that the addition of the parameters
indicates that business services have to support. The functional layers
are already operational. On our side instead of adding parameters we add
new components, inheriting their display and service from standard
components but with their dedicated process.

>
> Currently i am thinking adding a general.properties system variable to
> indicate the major purpose of the system: b2c (as currently) and b2b
> to be implemented.
>
> Regards,
> Hans
>
> On 03/05/2012 03:40 PM, Nicolas Malin wrote:
>> Hi Hans,
>>
>> The most of the works on addons concerns the B2B with order, crm,
>> quote, service, stock. I don't think it's a good solution to import
>> in OFBiz all functionalities B2B and B2C with parameters selection.
>> This may make them difficult to maintain business services.
>>
>> Nicolas
>>
>> Le 05/03/2012 09:33, Adrian Crum a écrit :
>>> No, I am not implying that. Like you said, the current system does
>>> not work that way.
>>>
>>> -Adrian
>>>
>>> On 3/5/2012 8:30 AM, Hans Bakker wrote:
>>>> You are implying that the system at the moment works that way?
>>>>
>>>> if they go to ecommerce the entered order is assigned to the
>>>> related internal organization? Same for quote and request? they can
>>>> see all orders for that internal organization?
>>>>
>>>> On 03/05/2012 03:25 PM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>> Actually, it is quite simple, and I have discussed this many
>>>>> times. The user is assigned to an internal organization (using the
>>>>> UserPreference entity). When a user creates an order, they are
>>>>> assigned to the order in the role of ORDER TAKER and their
>>>>> internal organization is assigned to the order in the role of
>>>>> INTERNAL ORGANIZATION. Finding orders by user or by internal
>>>>> organization is easy.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/5/2012 8:20 AM, Hans Bakker wrote:
>>>>>> Adrian it is much more than that, when he enters an order in
>>>>>> ecommerce the order should be for his company and not for him
>>>>>> personally, he should be able to see the data/oders of his
>>>>>> company (also entered by others) and there are many other
>>>>>> cases......
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 03/05/2012 03:16 PM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>> There is no need to make it mandatory, just supply a default if
>>>>>>> one isn't explicitly assigned (the "Company" internal
>>>>>>> organization for example).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/5/2012 8:13 AM, Hans Bakker wrote:
>>>>>>>> At the moment the system is focused being a b2c (business to
>>>>>>>> consumer) system. We are now getting more and more requests for
>>>>>>>> systems mainly for b2b (business to business)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The main difference is that in the b2c case the order/invoice
>>>>>>>> is for the person and in a b2b the order/invoice is for the
>>>>>>>> related company of that person.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In the registration process a person can register referring to
>>>>>>>> a company, a second person can register to the same company
>>>>>>>> however somewhere needs to be a approval process.....
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I was thinking introducing a system parameter to make the
>>>>>>>> related company of a person mandatory or not....
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> any thoughts on this?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>> Hans
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>

--
Nicolas MALIN
Consultant
Tél : [phone]
Site projet : http://www.neogia.org/
-------
Société LibrenBerry
Tél : [phone]
Site : http://www.librenberry.net/

[Anne Jessel]

I think I understand the problem, but suggest a system parameter is not the
best answer. It would mean a company could not do both B2B and B2C.

Perhaps in the ecommerce the customer placing the order can state whether
the order is on behalf of an organisation or for themselves. If it is for
an organisation, then the person gives the organisation's details (if not
previously entered). Then the code that creates the order can relate both
the person customer and the organisation customer to the order in the
appropriate roles. The roles to support this appear to already exist. I do
not know whether other code (invoice creation etc) deals with these roles
appropriately.

Any solution should also consider sub-organisations. For example, Joe
Customer is employed by Awesome Department of Big Organisation. Setting
this up in Parties is easy, but when Joe Customer places an order, should
it be Awesome Department or Big Organisation that takes the delivery and is
billed? Maybe Joe Customer has to specify this at the time of order
creation, so the right organisation is related to the order in the right
roles.

Cheers,
Anne.

On 5 March 2012 19:13, Hans Bakker <[hidden email]> wrote:

> At the moment the system is focused being a b2c (business to consumer)
> system. We are now getting more and more requests for systems mainly for
> b2b (business to business)
>
> The main difference is that in the b2c case the order/invoice is for the
> person and in a b2b the order/invoice is for the related company of that
> person.
>
> In the registration process a person can register referring to a company,
> a second person can register to the same company however somewhere needs to
> be a approval process.....
>
> I was thinking introducing a system parameter to make the related company
> of a person mandatory or not....
>
> any thoughts on this?
>
> Regards,
> Hans
>

--
Coherent Software Australia Pty Ltd
PO Box 2773
Cheltenham Vic 3192
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]
Web: http://www.cohsoft.com.au/
Email: [hidden email]

Bonsai ERP, the all-inclusive ERP system
http://www.bonsaierp.com.au/

[BJ Freeman]

if the partyrelationship is used as in Vol1 of the data manual, there
should be no problem, which is why I reverted to the way the databook
did it.

Hans Bakker sent the following on 3/5/2012 12:13 AM:

> At the moment the system is focused being a b2c (business to consumer)
> system. We are now getting more and more requests for systems mainly for
> b2b (business to business)
>
> The main difference is that in the b2c case the order/invoice is for the
> person and in a b2b the order/invoice is for the related company of that
> person.
>
> In the registration process a person can register referring to a
> company, a second person can register to the same company however
> somewhere needs to be a approval process.....
>
> I was thinking introducing a system parameter to make the related
> company of a person mandatory or not....
>
> any thoughts on this?
>
> Regards,
> Hans
>