does anyone know ofbiz?
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First, I don't mean to offend!
Is it possible for one person to have a deep understanding of how ALL of the components in ofbiz work? It is vast. I have found that the only way to tackle the problem is to break in into chucks: the framework, party management, work effort... At the rate I'm going I will have figured it all out in 5 years time. What makes this understanding really difficult is the lack of high level documentation of the processes. BPM diagrams (or any other processing modelling/visualisation methods) would help greatly. You could get an overview of the processes without having to look through the code. Is this a topic of interest to anyone on this list? Many thanks in advance, Chris |
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--- On Fri, 1/22/10, Chris Snow <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Is it possible for one person to have a deep understanding > of how ALL of the components in ofbiz work? It is > vast. I have found that the only way to tackle the > problem is to break in into chucks: the framework, party > management, work effort... At the rate I'm going I > will have figured it all out in 5 years time. It took me about 6 months to wrap my head around OFBiz. I have been using it for 6 years and there are things that I'm still learning about it. -Adrian |
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On 22/01/2010, at 5:04 PM, Adrian Crum wrote:
> --- On Fri, 1/22/10, Chris Snow <[hidden email]> wrote: >> Is it possible for one person to have a deep understanding >> of how ALL of the components in ofbiz work? It is >> vast. I have found that the only way to tackle the >> problem is to break in into chucks: the framework, party >> management, work effort... At the rate I'm going I >> will have figured it all out in 5 years time. > > It took me about 6 months to wrap my head around OFBiz. I have been using it for 6 years and there are things that I'm still learning about it. > > -Adrian > Regards Scott |
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In reply to this post by Adrian Crum-2
It's taken us about 6-12 months to get proficient in ofbiz.... mostly because we mostly "resisted" doing things the ofbiz way....
----- Original Message ----- From: "Adrian Crum" <[hidden email]> To: [hidden email] Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 7:04:01 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: does anyone know ofbiz? --- On Fri, 1/22/10, Chris Snow <[hidden email]> wrote: > Is it possible for one person to have a deep understanding > of how ALL of the components in ofbiz work? It is > vast. I have found that the only way to tackle the > problem is to break in into chucks: the framework, party > management, work effort... At the rate I'm going I > will have figured it all out in 5 years time. It took me about 6 months to wrap my head around OFBiz. I have been using it for 6 years and there are things that I'm still learning about it. -Adrian |
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In reply to this post by Chris Snow-3
Chris:
Dare I open my mouth and risk inserting foot? Ok, I can't resist...I don't know whether an individual could ever really have a deep understanding of all that OFBiz has to offer. For one thing, the available application set keeps growing. Which is a good thing. That aside, the concerns and workings of say the Entity Engine are so far removed from the HOWTOs of say, the Accounting Component, that it may not be possible. And then there is a whole 'nother world concerned with operations, maintenance and performance. What I can say with certainty: One of the things that originally attracted me to the project was the consistency of design. From the very start, it made logical sense to me. A testament to the original founder's (or is it founders' ?) vision and intellect. That, and with a little bit of effort on my part, I could get something up and running, (with confidence that it would stay up and running because of the design), pretty quickly. Regardless, I don't think there is anyone out there who would not agree with you when you said: "It is vast". I takes time and perseverance to come to terms with it. The good news is that because it is consistent, you begin to see patterns. Makes understanding much easier and as time goes on, you won't feel so overwhelmed. (Or, at least I didn't). On the other hand, BPM diagrams would be a real nice addition. Regards, Ruth Chris Snow wrote: > First, I don't mean to offend! > > Is it possible for one person to have a deep understanding of how ALL > of the components in ofbiz work? It is vast. I have found that the > only way to tackle the problem is to break in into chucks: the > framework, party management, work effort... At the rate I'm going I > will have figured it all out in 5 years time. > > What makes this understanding really difficult is the lack of high > level documentation of the processes. BPM diagrams (or any other > processing modelling/visualisation methods) would help greatly. You > could get an overview of the processes without having to look through > the code. Is this a topic of interest to anyone on this list? > > Many thanks in advance, > > Chris > > |
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In reply to this post by Scott Gray-2
So well said!
Regards, Ruth Scott Gray wrote: > On 22/01/2010, at 5:04 PM, Adrian Crum wrote: > > >> --- On Fri, 1/22/10, Chris Snow <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >>> Is it possible for one person to have a deep understanding >>> of how ALL of the components in ofbiz work? It is >>> vast. I have found that the only way to tackle the >>> problem is to break in into chucks: the framework, party >>> management, work effort... At the rate I'm going I >>> will have figured it all out in 5 years time. >>> >> It took me about 6 months to wrap my head around OFBiz. I have been using it for 6 years and there are things that I'm still learning about it. >> >> -Adrian >> >> > > I tend to find that the skill is not in remembering everything (of which I have no chance) but in building the ability to find answers quickly. > > Regards > Scott > > |
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In reply to this post by Marc Morin
Hi Marc,
This is one of the reasons I have been pushing for and independent ofbiz framework. It's is relatively quick to learn how to develop standalone apps in ofbiz. I believe with ofbiz, you can develop small applications as quickly as you can in MS Access - with a lot more benefits when using ofbiz (multiuser, web enabled, extendable, etc). However, in my opinion, it takes years of experience to be able to use the existing apps (partymgmt, ordermgmt, etc). Cheers, Chris Marc Morin wrote: > It's taken us about 6-12 months to get proficient in ofbiz.... mostly because we mostly "resisted" doing things the ofbiz way.... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Adrian Crum" <[hidden email]> > To: [hidden email] > Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 7:04:01 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > Subject: Re: does anyone know ofbiz? > > --- On Fri, 1/22/10, Chris Snow <[hidden email]> wrote: > >> Is it possible for one person to have a deep understanding >> of how ALL of the components in ofbiz work? It is >> vast. I have found that the only way to tackle the >> problem is to break in into chucks: the framework, party >> management, work effort... At the rate I'm going I >> will have figured it all out in 5 years time. >> > > It took me about 6 months to wrap my head around OFBiz. I have been using it for 6 years and there are things that I'm still learning about it. > > -Adrian > > > > > |
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In reply to this post by Marc Morin
Hi Marc,
This is one of the reasons I have been pushing for and independent ofbiz framework. It's is relatively quick to learn how to develop standalone apps in ofbiz. I believe with ofbiz, you can develop small applications as quickly as you can in MS Access - with a lot more benefits when using ofbiz (multiuser, web enabled, extendable, etc). However, in my opinion, it takes years of experience to be able to use the existing apps (partymgmt, ordermgmt, etc). Cheers, Chris Marc Morin wrote: > It's taken us about 6-12 months to get proficient in ofbiz.... mostly because we mostly "resisted" doing things the ofbiz way.... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Adrian Crum" <[hidden email]> > To: [hidden email] > Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 7:04:01 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > Subject: Re: does anyone know ofbiz? > > --- On Fri, 1/22/10, Chris Snow <[hidden email]> wrote: > >> Is it possible for one person to have a deep understanding >> of how ALL of the components in ofbiz work? It is >> vast. I have found that the only way to tackle the >> problem is to break in into chucks: the framework, party >> management, work effort... At the rate I'm going I >> will have figured it all out in 5 years time. >> > > It took me about 6 months to wrap my head around OFBiz. I have been using it for 6 years and there are things that I'm still learning about it. > > -Adrian > > > > > |
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Hi Chris:
I think you are spot on. Once you understand the basics, it is relatively easy to develop data driven web applications with the OFBiz framework. I've been doing just that for several years now. All that "nasty" database stuff is taken care of - leaving me free to develop real world solutions in short order. What is much more difficult is to figure out how to use the existing applications to solve real world problems. I'm still struggling with that. Regards, Ruth ---------------------------------------------------- Find me on the web at http://www.myofbiz.com or Google keyword "myofbiz" [hidden email] Chris Snow wrote: > Hi Marc, > > This is one of the reasons I have been pushing for and independent > ofbiz framework. It's is relatively quick to learn how to develop > standalone apps in ofbiz. I believe with ofbiz, you can develop small > applications as quickly as you can in MS Access - with a lot more > benefits when using ofbiz (multiuser, web enabled, extendable, etc). > > However, in my opinion, it takes years of experience to be able to use > the existing apps (partymgmt, ordermgmt, etc). > > Cheers, > > Chris > > > Marc Morin wrote: >> It's taken us about 6-12 months to get proficient in ofbiz.... >> mostly because we mostly "resisted" doing things the ofbiz way.... >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Adrian Crum" <[hidden email]> >> To: [hidden email] >> Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 7:04:01 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern >> Subject: Re: does anyone know ofbiz? >> >> --- On Fri, 1/22/10, Chris Snow <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >>> Is it possible for one person to have a deep understanding >>> of how ALL of the components in ofbiz work? It is >>> vast. I have found that the only way to tackle the >>> problem is to break in into chucks: the framework, party >>> management, work effort... At the rate I'm going I >>> will have figured it all out in 5 years time. >>> >> >> It took me about 6 months to wrap my head around OFBiz. I have been >> using it for 6 years and there are things that I'm still learning >> about it. >> >> -Adrian >> >> >> >> >> > > |
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Hi Ruth,
I wouldn't even say it's difficult to figure out the existing applications. It is very time consuming. Without high level overview documentation, the only way to understand the existing apps is to go through each line of code. I really think there should be a process documentation effort - of which I'm willing to give my time... Cheers, Chris Ruth Hoffman wrote: > Hi Chris: > I think you are spot on. Once you understand the basics, it is > relatively easy to develop data driven web applications with the OFBiz > framework. I've been doing just that for several years now. All that > "nasty" database stuff is taken care of - leaving me free to develop > real world solutions in short order. > > What is much more difficult is to figure out how to use the existing > applications to solve real world problems. I'm still struggling with > that. > > Regards, > Ruth > ---------------------------------------------------- > Find me on the web at http://www.myofbiz.com or Google keyword "myofbiz" > [hidden email] > > Chris Snow wrote: >> Hi Marc, >> >> This is one of the reasons I have been pushing for and independent >> ofbiz framework. It's is relatively quick to learn how to develop >> standalone apps in ofbiz. I believe with ofbiz, you can develop >> small applications as quickly as you can in MS Access - with a lot >> more benefits when using ofbiz (multiuser, web enabled, extendable, >> etc). >> >> However, in my opinion, it takes years of experience to be able to >> use the existing apps (partymgmt, ordermgmt, etc). >> >> Cheers, >> >> Chris >> >> >> Marc Morin wrote: >>> It's taken us about 6-12 months to get proficient in ofbiz.... >>> mostly because we mostly "resisted" doing things the ofbiz way.... >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Adrian Crum" <[hidden email]> >>> To: [hidden email] >>> Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 7:04:01 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern >>> Subject: Re: does anyone know ofbiz? >>> >>> --- On Fri, 1/22/10, Chris Snow <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> >>>> Is it possible for one person to have a deep understanding >>>> of how ALL of the components in ofbiz work? It is >>>> vast. I have found that the only way to tackle the >>>> problem is to break in into chucks: the framework, party >>>> management, work effort... At the rate I'm going I >>>> will have figured it all out in 5 years time. >>>> >>> >>> It took me about 6 months to wrap my head around OFBiz. I have been >>> using it for 6 years and there are things that I'm still learning >>> about it. >>> >>> -Adrian >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> |
Re: does anyone know ofbiz?
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Hi Chris,
There is already an initiative do document high-level processes: http://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBREQDES/Universal+Business+Process+Library+Index Jeroen van der Wal Stromboli b.v. +31 655 874050 On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 3:18 PM, Chris Snow <[hidden email]>wrote: > Hi Ruth, > > I wouldn't even say it's difficult to figure out the existing applications. > It is very time consuming. Without high level overview documentation, the > only way to understand the existing apps is to go through each line of code. > > I really think there should be a process documentation effort - of which > I'm willing to give my time... > > Cheers, > > Chris > > > Ruth Hoffman wrote: > >> Hi Chris: >> I think you are spot on. Once you understand the basics, it is relatively >> easy to develop data driven web applications with the OFBiz framework. I've >> been doing just that for several years now. All that "nasty" database stuff >> is taken care of - leaving me free to develop real world solutions in short >> order. >> >> What is much more difficult is to figure out how to use the existing >> applications to solve real world problems. I'm still struggling with that. >> >> Regards, >> Ruth >> ---------------------------------------------------- >> Find me on the web at http://www.myofbiz.com or Google keyword "myofbiz" >> [hidden email] >> >> Chris Snow wrote: >> >>> Hi Marc, >>> >>> This is one of the reasons I have been pushing for and independent ofbiz >>> framework. It's is relatively quick to learn how to develop standalone apps >>> in ofbiz. I believe with ofbiz, you can develop small applications as >>> quickly as you can in MS Access - with a lot more benefits when using ofbiz >>> (multiuser, web enabled, extendable, etc). >>> >>> However, in my opinion, it takes years of experience to be able to use >>> the existing apps (partymgmt, ordermgmt, etc). >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> >>> Marc Morin wrote: >>> >>>> It's taken us about 6-12 months to get proficient in ofbiz.... mostly >>>> because we mostly "resisted" doing things the ofbiz way.... >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Adrian Crum" <[hidden email]> >>>> To: [hidden email] >>>> Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 7:04:01 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern >>>> Subject: Re: does anyone know ofbiz? >>>> >>>> --- On Fri, 1/22/10, Chris Snow <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Is it possible for one person to have a deep understanding >>>>> of how ALL of the components in ofbiz work? It is >>>>> vast. I have found that the only way to tackle the >>>>> problem is to break in into chucks: the framework, party >>>>> management, work effort... At the rate I'm going I >>>>> will have figured it all out in 5 years time. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> It took me about 6 months to wrap my head around OFBiz. I have been >>>> using it for 6 years and there are things that I'm still learning about it. >>>> >>>> -Adrian >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> > |
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In reply to this post by Chris Snow-3
Hi Chris:
True. Maybe "difficult" is a poor choice of words. What is difficult aside from finding the time, is finding the right words to accurately articulate how the applications work. Business process documentation would certainly help. Regards, Ruth Chris Snow wrote: > Hi Ruth, > > I wouldn't even say it's difficult to figure out the existing > applications. It is very time consuming. Without high level overview > documentation, the only way to understand the existing apps is to go > through each line of code. > > I really think there should be a process documentation effort - of > which I'm willing to give my time... > > Cheers, > > Chris > > Ruth Hoffman wrote: >> Hi Chris: >> I think you are spot on. Once you understand the basics, it is >> relatively easy to develop data driven web applications with the >> OFBiz framework. I've been doing just that for several years now. All >> that "nasty" database stuff is taken care of - leaving me free to >> develop real world solutions in short order. >> >> What is much more difficult is to figure out how to use the existing >> applications to solve real world problems. I'm still struggling with >> that. >> >> Regards, >> Ruth >> ---------------------------------------------------- >> Find me on the web at http://www.myofbiz.com or Google keyword "myofbiz" >> [hidden email] >> >> Chris Snow wrote: >>> Hi Marc, >>> >>> This is one of the reasons I have been pushing for and independent >>> ofbiz framework. It's is relatively quick to learn how to develop >>> standalone apps in ofbiz. I believe with ofbiz, you can develop >>> small applications as quickly as you can in MS Access - with a lot >>> more benefits when using ofbiz (multiuser, web enabled, extendable, >>> etc). >>> >>> However, in my opinion, it takes years of experience to be able to >>> use the existing apps (partymgmt, ordermgmt, etc). >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> >>> Marc Morin wrote: >>>> It's taken us about 6-12 months to get proficient in ofbiz.... >>>> mostly because we mostly "resisted" doing things the ofbiz way.... >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Adrian Crum" <[hidden email]> >>>> To: [hidden email] >>>> Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 7:04:01 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern >>>> Subject: Re: does anyone know ofbiz? >>>> >>>> --- On Fri, 1/22/10, Chris Snow <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Is it possible for one person to have a deep understanding >>>>> of how ALL of the components in ofbiz work? It is >>>>> vast. I have found that the only way to tackle the >>>>> problem is to break in into chucks: the framework, party >>>>> management, work effort... At the rate I'm going I >>>>> will have figured it all out in 5 years time. >>>>> >>>> >>>> It took me about 6 months to wrap my head around OFBiz. I have been >>>> using it for 6 years and there are things that I'm still learning >>>> about it. >>>> >>>> -Adrian >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> > > |
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In reply to this post by Jeroen van der Wal-2
The UBPL stories might be helpful for you Chris, but I think they are different from what you are looking for. The goal of UBPL is to get people collaborating in a more structured way on gathering requirements, and then based on those requirements collaborate on designs, and THEN collaborate on implementation of those designs. It is not an attempt to document what is already in OFBiz, but rather to document common business requirements in the form of processes to help refine and flesh-out OFBiz (ie to drive the future of OFBiz). The reason for this goal is that typically there has been little if any collaboration on requirements and designs in OFBiz. This works to some extent because the OFBiz base applications (those in the components in the ofbiz/applications directory) are meant to be generic and reusable, and that means organized around a data model and NOT around business processes in order to support a wider variety of business processes, and so the artifacts are reusable in custom or derived applications that are designed to support a wide variety of business processes. In other words, you could try to document the business processes supported by OFBiz, but you would never finish because there is no single process or even a small set of processes that OFBiz supports... it really a very large set of processes. Your best bet to find things in OFBiz is to gain an understanding of the data model, and then to use tools like the Artifact Info stuff in web tools to find related artifacts (ie controller requests and views, screens, forms, service definitions, service implementations, and so on. When you do this you'll see a number of process snippets that are modeled as services (like creating an order), or triggers that get other processes going in the form of ECA rules (like creating an invoice for part or all of an order when items from that order are in a packed shipment). I'm actually a little bit surprised that no one else has brought up these points. This has been discussed many many times. Or maybe I've presented it many many times and no one believes me...? -David On Jan 25, 2010, at 8:25 AM, Jeroen van der Wal wrote: > Hi Chris, > > There is already an initiative do document high-level processes: > http://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBREQDES/Universal+Business+Process+Library+Index > > Jeroen van der Wal > Stromboli b.v. > +31 655 874050 > > > On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 3:18 PM, Chris Snow <[hidden email]>wrote: > >> Hi Ruth, >> >> I wouldn't even say it's difficult to figure out the existing applications. >> It is very time consuming. Without high level overview documentation, the >> only way to understand the existing apps is to go through each line of code. >> >> I really think there should be a process documentation effort - of which >> I'm willing to give my time... >> >> Cheers, >> >> Chris >> >> >> Ruth Hoffman wrote: >> >>> Hi Chris: >>> I think you are spot on. Once you understand the basics, it is relatively >>> easy to develop data driven web applications with the OFBiz framework. I've >>> been doing just that for several years now. All that "nasty" database stuff >>> is taken care of - leaving me free to develop real world solutions in short >>> order. >>> >>> What is much more difficult is to figure out how to use the existing >>> applications to solve real world problems. I'm still struggling with that. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Ruth >>> ---------------------------------------------------- >>> Find me on the web at http://www.myofbiz.com or Google keyword "myofbiz" >>> [hidden email] >>> >>> Chris Snow wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Marc, >>>> >>>> This is one of the reasons I have been pushing for and independent ofbiz >>>> framework. It's is relatively quick to learn how to develop standalone apps >>>> in ofbiz. I believe with ofbiz, you can develop small applications as >>>> quickly as you can in MS Access - with a lot more benefits when using ofbiz >>>> (multiuser, web enabled, extendable, etc). >>>> >>>> However, in my opinion, it takes years of experience to be able to use >>>> the existing apps (partymgmt, ordermgmt, etc). >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> >>>> Chris >>>> >>>> >>>> Marc Morin wrote: >>>> >>>>> It's taken us about 6-12 months to get proficient in ofbiz.... mostly >>>>> because we mostly "resisted" doing things the ofbiz way.... >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Adrian Crum" <[hidden email]> >>>>> To: [hidden email] >>>>> Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 7:04:01 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern >>>>> Subject: Re: does anyone know ofbiz? >>>>> >>>>> --- On Fri, 1/22/10, Chris Snow <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Is it possible for one person to have a deep understanding >>>>>> of how ALL of the components in ofbiz work? It is >>>>>> vast. I have found that the only way to tackle the >>>>>> problem is to break in into chucks: the framework, party >>>>>> management, work effort... At the rate I'm going I >>>>>> will have figured it all out in 5 years time. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> It took me about 6 months to wrap my head around OFBiz. I have been >>>>> using it for 6 years and there are things that I'm still learning about it. >>>>> >>>>> -Adrian >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >> |
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David E Jones wrote:
> Your best bet to find things in OFBiz is to gain an understanding of the data model, and then to use tools like the Artifact Info stuff in web tools to find related artifacts (ie controller requests and views, screens, forms, service definitions, service implementations, and so on. When you do this you'll see a number of process snippets that are modeled as services (like creating an order), or triggers that get other processes going in the form of ECA rules (like creating an invoice for part or all of an order when items from that order are in a packed shipment). > > Perhaps an eclipse ofbiz plug would be more useful than process documentation? I.e. being able to "efficiently" navigate all this meta data from within the development environment? |
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In reply to this post by David E. Jones-2
I agree,
Something that would be very interesting for OFBiz and would give us more power, David already suggested that, would be to use the artifact info underneath to provide a tool, like an Eclipse plugin, to navigate in OFBiz, like you do in Java. But yes, it's not the same scope at the same level, in the past this was called RAD Jacques From: "David E Jones" <[hidden email]> > > The UBPL stories might be helpful for you Chris, but I think they are different from what you are looking for. > > The goal of UBPL is to get people collaborating in a more structured way on gathering requirements, and then based on those > requirements collaborate on designs, and THEN collaborate on implementation of those designs. It is not an attempt to document > what is already in OFBiz, but rather to document common business requirements in the form of processes to help refine and > flesh-out OFBiz (ie to drive the future of OFBiz). > > The reason for this goal is that typically there has been little if any collaboration on requirements and designs in OFBiz. This > works to some extent because the OFBiz base applications (those in the components in the ofbiz/applications directory) are meant > to be generic and reusable, and that means organized around a data model and NOT around business processes in order to support a > wider variety of business processes, and so the artifacts are reusable in custom or derived applications that are designed to > support a wide variety of business processes. > > In other words, you could try to document the business processes supported by OFBiz, but you would never finish because there is > no single process or even a small set of processes that OFBiz supports... it really a very large set of processes. > > Your best bet to find things in OFBiz is to gain an understanding of the data model, and then to use tools like the Artifact Info > stuff in web tools to find related artifacts (ie controller requests and views, screens, forms, service definitions, service > implementations, and so on. When you do this you'll see a number of process snippets that are modeled as services (like creating > an order), or triggers that get other processes going in the form of ECA rules (like creating an invoice for part or all of an > order when items from that order are in a packed shipment). > > I'm actually a little bit surprised that no one else has brought up these points. This has been discussed many many times. Or > maybe I've presented it many many times and no one believes me...? > > -David > > > > On Jan 25, 2010, at 8:25 AM, Jeroen van der Wal wrote: > >> Hi Chris, >> >> There is already an initiative do document high-level processes: >> http://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBREQDES/Universal+Business+Process+Library+Index >> >> Jeroen van der Wal >> Stromboli b.v. >> +31 655 874050 >> >> >> On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 3:18 PM, Chris Snow <[hidden email]>wrote: >> >>> Hi Ruth, >>> >>> I wouldn't even say it's difficult to figure out the existing applications. >>> It is very time consuming. Without high level overview documentation, the >>> only way to understand the existing apps is to go through each line of code. >>> >>> I really think there should be a process documentation effort - of which >>> I'm willing to give my time... >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> >>> Ruth Hoffman wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Chris: >>>> I think you are spot on. Once you understand the basics, it is relatively >>>> easy to develop data driven web applications with the OFBiz framework. I've >>>> been doing just that for several years now. All that "nasty" database stuff >>>> is taken care of - leaving me free to develop real world solutions in short >>>> order. >>>> >>>> What is much more difficult is to figure out how to use the existing >>>> applications to solve real world problems. I'm still struggling with that. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Ruth >>>> ---------------------------------------------------- >>>> Find me on the web at http://www.myofbiz.com or Google keyword "myofbiz" >>>> [hidden email] >>>> >>>> Chris Snow wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Marc, >>>>> >>>>> This is one of the reasons I have been pushing for and independent ofbiz >>>>> framework. It's is relatively quick to learn how to develop standalone apps >>>>> in ofbiz. I believe with ofbiz, you can develop small applications as >>>>> quickly as you can in MS Access - with a lot more benefits when using ofbiz >>>>> (multiuser, web enabled, extendable, etc). >>>>> >>>>> However, in my opinion, it takes years of experience to be able to use >>>>> the existing apps (partymgmt, ordermgmt, etc). >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> >>>>> Chris >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Marc Morin wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> It's taken us about 6-12 months to get proficient in ofbiz.... mostly >>>>>> because we mostly "resisted" doing things the ofbiz way.... >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Adrian Crum" <[hidden email]> >>>>>> To: [hidden email] >>>>>> Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 7:04:01 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern >>>>>> Subject: Re: does anyone know ofbiz? >>>>>> >>>>>> --- On Fri, 1/22/10, Chris Snow <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Is it possible for one person to have a deep understanding >>>>>>> of how ALL of the components in ofbiz work? It is >>>>>>> vast. I have found that the only way to tackle the >>>>>>> problem is to break in into chucks: the framework, party >>>>>>> management, work effort... At the rate I'm going I >>>>>>> will have figured it all out in 5 years time. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> It took me about 6 months to wrap my head around OFBiz. I have been >>>>>> using it for 6 years and there are things that I'm still learning about it. >>>>>> >>>>>> -Adrian >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> > |
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In reply to this post by Chris Snow-3
On Jan 26, 2010, at 2:43 AM, Chris Snow wrote: > David E Jones wrote: >> Your best bet to find things in OFBiz is to gain an understanding of the data model, and then to use tools like the Artifact Info stuff in web tools to find related artifacts (ie controller requests and views, screens, forms, service definitions, service implementations, and so on. When you do this you'll see a number of process snippets that are modeled as services (like creating an order), or triggers that get other processes going in the form of ECA rules (like creating an invoice for part or all of an order when items from that order are in a packed shipment). >> >> > Perhaps an eclipse ofbiz plug would be more useful than process documentation? I.e. being able to "efficiently" navigate all this meta data from within the development environment? The original intent of the Artifact Info stuff was to gather the information that would be necessary for something like an Eclipse plugin. Until someone writes and Eclipse plugin the information is only available through the web-based UI. -David |
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In reply to this post by Ruth Hoffman-2
Hi
For the last couple of years I've been looking at OFBiz from a business process perspective and I would suggest that many businesses wanting to find out if OFBiz would work for them will want to know if their business processes are supported or not. It is a key question and if it cant be answered fairly quickly then they will go and look elsewhere. My experience with ERPs is that many of them do support many types of business processes and an important area is understanding how to configure the system to adapt to the differing needs and this is where I'm looking to position. At the moment I'm looking into the possibility of putting together some resources together (eg documentation or training material, etc) based on business processes. Before starting I'd like to find out whether anyone else is working on this (so perhaps we could pool resources!) and also whether people think it would be a good idea or not. Thanks Sharan |
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Hi Sharan,
I also think it is a good idea to at least try and get some process documentation in place. I would be keen to help! Many thanks, Chris On 26/01/2010 20:43, Sharan-F wrote: > Hi > > For the last couple of years I've been looking at OFBiz from a business > process perspective and I would suggest that many businesses wanting to find > out if OFBiz would work for them will want to know if their business > processes are supported or not. It is a key question and if it cant be > answered fairly quickly then they will go and look elsewhere. > > My experience with ERPs is that many of them do support many types of > business processes and an important area is understanding how to configure > the system to adapt to the differing needs and this is where I'm looking to > position. > > At the moment I'm looking into the possibility of putting together some > resources together (eg documentation or training material, etc) based > on business processes. Before starting I'd like to find out whether anyone > else is working on this (so perhaps we could pool resources!) and also > whether people think it would be a good idea or not. > > Thanks > Sharan > > > |
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In reply to this post by Sharan-F
Hi Sharan:
I'm working towards that end. I'm certainly a long way off. But ultimately, I'd like to have a set of resources available to: 1) Train end users on how to use OFBiz to run their business. (I guess that starts with, should you even be looking at OFBiz to run your business.) 2) Train consultants on how to configure (setup, customize - whatever you want to call it) primary OFBiz features to meet specific business requirements. I'm not so much interested in showing developers how to write new OFBiz applications. I think there is an abundance of that kind of information out there. No? I'd be happy to discuss this with you either through this forum or offline. Regards, Ruth Sharan-F wrote: > Hi > > For the last couple of years I've been looking at OFBiz from a business > process perspective and I would suggest that many businesses wanting to find > out if OFBiz would work for them will want to know if their business > processes are supported or not. It is a key question and if it cant be > answered fairly quickly then they will go and look elsewhere. > > My experience with ERPs is that many of them do support many types of > business processes and an important area is understanding how to configure > the system to adapt to the differing needs and this is where I'm looking to > position. > > At the moment I'm looking into the possibility of putting together some > resources together (eg documentation or training material, etc) based > on business processes. Before starting I'd like to find out whether anyone > else is working on this (so perhaps we could pool resources!) and also > whether people think it would be a good idea or not. > > Thanks > Sharan > > > |
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Hi Ruth
We seem to be thinking along similar lines so yes I think it would be good to discuss things. I'll just give it until tomorrow to see if I get any other mailing responses about this – otherwise if it's just you, me and Chris then we can take the discussion offline. Thanks Sharan |
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