functional training
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re: openbravo
While they don't like to admit it, OpenBravo was based on Compiere, which when OB started was Compiere Public License - a derivative of the MPL license. So I would guess this is OB's real reason for this choice of license. > AFAIK Apache OFBiz is the only community-driven project in this space. There is at least one other community driven project in this area that I know of - Adempiere. I don't mean to advertise one project in another but only because it is a topic of conversation here... Adempiere is another Compiere fork but this time a GPL project. I think both OfBiz & Adempiere share many ideals - Adempiere too is completely community driven, with no one company holding any significant power. And while I am quiet active in Adempiere I am no a fan of the "architecture" we inherited from compiere and long for the truly structured but abstract designs of OfBiz that [IMO] offers unrivalled flexibility. Whereas, functionally, OfBiz is complex & often abstract with the ideals of "we'll add everything we can think of and let people take away what they don't need" - Adempiere is in many respects simpler with the idea that "we'll add the basics and make it easy to extend". But two very interesting projects I think, both with good community orientated attitudes to FOSS that is becoming rare today with the emergence of "commercial" open source that seems to me to be no more than a marketing strategy! Colin David E Jones wrote: > On Jul 12, 2009, at 4:55 PM, BJ Freeman wrote: > >> LOL, sorry but I started when there was no documentation at all, 2003. >> I have learned ofbiz. That is how much I believe in it. >> Open bravo does not provide the frame I need for Automation. >> it is also GPL licensed. >> From what I have seen it is not an enterprise level software. >> To each his own. >> :D > > Based on a quick search: it's actually MPL (Mozilla) license (GPL for > the POS part of it), which is like GPL for modifications but like > BSD/Apache for extensions. From your other email: I doubt they would > Apache license it because it would make it hard to _sell_ a license > which is a clear part of their business model, along with training and > other services. > > AFAIK Apache OFBiz is the only community-driven project in this space. > Other are typically GPL-like/commercial dual licensed, which is a model > more like traditional commercial software in terms of revenue and > development (ie hired developers and not many community contributions). > That includes OpenBravo, Compiere, OpenERP, ERP5, and yes even our > friends at opentaps. It also includes less direct competitors like > Magento, Alfresco, SugarCRM, and many others. > > Now, Adempiere is one exception, though they have a funny licensing > situation since it is GPL and no one in the community owns the copyright > to the original GPL code base that came from Compiere... tricky at best. > >> snowch sent the following on 7/12/2009 2:45 PM: >>> The file DemoOrganizationData.xml looks as though it will provide the >>> answers >>> I am looking for. Many thanks! However the real problem is that >>> learning >>> ofbiz end user functionality is time consuming due to the lack of >>> documentation. >>> >>> I found the same problem a few years back when learning technical >>> development of ofbiz. In the end I gave up until Jonathon Wong's >>> book was >>> recently released. That book saved me hundreds of hours of trial and >>> error >>> development. I can now easily develop standalone ofbiz applications. >>> However, I am now struggling with utilizing the existing ofbiz >>> functionality. > > Do you mean you looked through the docs.ofbiz.org documentation and > didn't find what you were looking for? There are pretty clear links from > the OFBiz home page to these community-maintained docs, and there is a > LOT there for both technical and end-user documentation. > > On the other hand, IF you write something along the lines of "I'm > looking for information about X and I found documents A, B, and C which > seem related but they don't address it" THEN you will almost certainly > get specific feedback and responses. > > This is a community driven project, so if you'd looking for interaction > similar to what you'd find with a commercial entity you'll have a hard > time. If you're working with the community in the way communities work > you'll have a good experience. For more details about this please see my > recent blog post: > > http://osofbiz.blogspot.com/2009/06/open-source-community-collaboration.html > > >>> I think I will probably (reluctantly) end up moving to openbravo as my >>> development framework for ERP applications based on the availability of >>> their functional and developer training material (see >>> http://www.openbravo.com/services/training/). > > On the other hand, if you'd prefer to get commercial services, you're in > luck! Whether you're looking for training courses, mentoring, or even > paid documentation there are options, just like with OpenBravo. The nice > thing about OFBiz is that there is no central vendor which means there > is a wider variety of options and none of them have to compete with the > central vendor. For a pretty good list (but not all OFBiz service > providers, many do not market through the project) see: > > http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBIZ/Apache+OFBiz+Service+Providers > > -David > > >>> >>> BJ Freeman wrote: >>>> yes, I got error messages the first time, >>>> from the error messages I learned what needed to be done >>>> hard way to learn. >>>> I also looked at the DemoOrganization.xml for Ideas. >>>> >>>> snowch sent the following on 7/12/2009 2:11 PM: >>>>> I've realised that I need to use relationships from other posts, >>>>> and from >>>>> the >>>>> ManagerReferenceParty.pdf. >>>>> >>>>> What is not clear is how? The UI doesn't have much meaning without >>>>> some >>>>> examples: >>>>> >>>>> New Relationship: >>>>> >>>>> of the Party with ID ___ >>>>> in the role of ___ >>>>> is a ___ >>>>> of the current party ___ >>>>> in the role of ___ >>>>> And Party Relationship Security ___ >>>>>> From Calendar ___ >>>>> Thru Calendar ___ >>>>> Comments ___ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> BJ Freeman wrote: >>>>>> it is done through relationships >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> snowch sent the following on 7/12/2009 11:52 AM: >>>>>>> One area I'm struggling with is trying to create a party group and >>>>>>> adding >>>>>>> parties to the group. Is there any documentation on this specific >>>>>>> area? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Many thanks... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> BJ Freeman wrote: >>>>>>>> End user Docs >>>>>>>> There was an effort for a time to generate a help system of enduser >>>>>>>> docs, but that has sort of fallen off. >>>>>>>> http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBENDUSER/End+User+Documentation >>>>>>>> there are fragements though out the doc site >>>>>>>> http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBIZ/OFBiz+Applications+User+Manual >>>>>>>> that has links in it to others >>>>>>>> http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBIZ/Accounting+Screens+Reference >>>>>>>> you just have to go through them to pull them all together. >>>>>>>> Hopefully some will put on energy into the first link to tie all >>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>> together. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> snowch sent the following on 7/12/2009 7:11 AM: >>>>>>>>> By functional, I mean training that is aimed at the non-technical >>>>>>>>> user. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I am ok with developing ofbiz applications from scratch, but now I >>>>>>>>> need >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> know how to use more of the ofbiz functionality out-of-the-box. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Reading through the Len Silverston data model books are useful, >>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>> only >>>>>>>>> really describe the data model. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Many thanks, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> BJ Freeman wrote: >>>>>>>>>> not sure your definition for functional. >>>>>>>>>> http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBADMIN/OFBiz+Documentation+Index >>>>>>>>>> on top of that David use to run seminars once a year. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> snowch sent the following on 7/10/2009 2:52 PM: >>>>>>>>>>> Is there any functional training available for ofbiz? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Many thanks, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> BJ Freeman >>>>>>>>>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation >>>>>>>>>> http://bjfreeman.elance.com >>>>>>>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/profile?viewProfile=&key=1237480&locale=en_US&trk=tab_pro >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Systems Integrator. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> BJ Freeman >>>>>>>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation >>>>>>>> http://bjfreeman.elance.com >>>>>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/profile?viewProfile=&key=1237480&locale=en_US&trk=tab_pro >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Systems Integrator. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> BJ Freeman >>>>>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation >>>>>> http://bjfreeman.elance.com >>>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/profile?viewProfile=&key=1237480&locale=en_US&trk=tab_pro >>>>>> >>>>>> Systems Integrator. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> -- >>>> BJ Freeman >>>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation >>>> http://bjfreeman.elance.com >>>> http://www.linkedin.com/profile?viewProfile=&key=1237480&locale=en_US&trk=tab_pro >>>> >>>> Systems Integrator. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> -- >> BJ Freeman >> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation >> http://bjfreeman.elance.com >> http://www.linkedin.com/profile?viewProfile=&key=1237480&locale=en_US&trk=tab_pro >> >> Systems Integrator. >> > > |
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ps. I meant to say - OpenBravo POS was originally TinaPOS which was GPL.
This explains the different license for it I think Colin Colin Rooney wrote: > re: openbravo > While they don't like to admit it, OpenBravo was based on Compiere, > which when OB started was Compiere Public License - a derivative of the > MPL license. So I would guess this is OB's real reason for this choice > of license. > >> AFAIK Apache OFBiz is the only community-driven project in this space. > There is at least one other community driven project in this area that I > know of - Adempiere. I don't mean to advertise one project in another > but only because it is a topic of conversation here... Adempiere is > another Compiere fork but this time a GPL project. I think both OfBiz & > Adempiere share many ideals - Adempiere too is completely community > driven, with no one company holding any significant power. And while I > am quiet active in Adempiere I am no a fan of the "architecture" we > inherited from compiere and long for the truly structured but abstract > designs of OfBiz that [IMO] offers unrivalled flexibility. Whereas, > functionally, OfBiz is complex & often abstract with the ideals of > "we'll add everything we can think of and let people take away what they > don't need" - Adempiere is in many respects simpler with the idea that > "we'll add the basics and make it easy to extend". > > But two very interesting projects I think, both with good community > orientated attitudes to FOSS that is becoming rare today with the > emergence of "commercial" open source that seems to me to be no more > than a marketing strategy! > > > Colin > > David E Jones wrote: >> On Jul 12, 2009, at 4:55 PM, BJ Freeman wrote: >> >>> LOL, sorry but I started when there was no documentation at all, 2003. >>> I have learned ofbiz. That is how much I believe in it. >>> Open bravo does not provide the frame I need for Automation. >>> it is also GPL licensed. >>> From what I have seen it is not an enterprise level software. >>> To each his own. >>> :D >> Based on a quick search: it's actually MPL (Mozilla) license (GPL for >> the POS part of it), which is like GPL for modifications but like >> BSD/Apache for extensions. From your other email: I doubt they would >> Apache license it because it would make it hard to _sell_ a license >> which is a clear part of their business model, along with training and >> other services. >> >> AFAIK Apache OFBiz is the only community-driven project in this space. >> Other are typically GPL-like/commercial dual licensed, which is a model >> more like traditional commercial software in terms of revenue and >> development (ie hired developers and not many community contributions). >> That includes OpenBravo, Compiere, OpenERP, ERP5, and yes even our >> friends at opentaps. It also includes less direct competitors like >> Magento, Alfresco, SugarCRM, and many others. >> >> Now, Adempiere is one exception, though they have a funny licensing >> situation since it is GPL and no one in the community owns the copyright >> to the original GPL code base that came from Compiere... tricky at best. >> >>> snowch sent the following on 7/12/2009 2:45 PM: >>>> The file DemoOrganizationData.xml looks as though it will provide the >>>> answers >>>> I am looking for. Many thanks! However the real problem is that >>>> learning >>>> ofbiz end user functionality is time consuming due to the lack of >>>> documentation. >>>> >>>> I found the same problem a few years back when learning technical >>>> development of ofbiz. In the end I gave up until Jonathon Wong's >>>> book was >>>> recently released. That book saved me hundreds of hours of trial and >>>> error >>>> development. I can now easily develop standalone ofbiz applications. >>>> However, I am now struggling with utilizing the existing ofbiz >>>> functionality. >> Do you mean you looked through the docs.ofbiz.org documentation and >> didn't find what you were looking for? There are pretty clear links from >> the OFBiz home page to these community-maintained docs, and there is a >> LOT there for both technical and end-user documentation. >> >> On the other hand, IF you write something along the lines of "I'm >> looking for information about X and I found documents A, B, and C which >> seem related but they don't address it" THEN you will almost certainly >> get specific feedback and responses. >> >> This is a community driven project, so if you'd looking for interaction >> similar to what you'd find with a commercial entity you'll have a hard >> time. If you're working with the community in the way communities work >> you'll have a good experience. For more details about this please see my >> recent blog post: >> >> http://osofbiz.blogspot.com/2009/06/open-source-community-collaboration.html >> >> >>>> I think I will probably (reluctantly) end up moving to openbravo as my >>>> development framework for ERP applications based on the availability of >>>> their functional and developer training material (see >>>> http://www.openbravo.com/services/training/). >> On the other hand, if you'd prefer to get commercial services, you're in >> luck! Whether you're looking for training courses, mentoring, or even >> paid documentation there are options, just like with OpenBravo. The nice >> thing about OFBiz is that there is no central vendor which means there >> is a wider variety of options and none of them have to compete with the >> central vendor. For a pretty good list (but not all OFBiz service >> providers, many do not market through the project) see: >> >> http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBIZ/Apache+OFBiz+Service+Providers >> >> -David >> >> >>>> BJ Freeman wrote: >>>>> yes, I got error messages the first time, >>>>> from the error messages I learned what needed to be done >>>>> hard way to learn. >>>>> I also looked at the DemoOrganization.xml for Ideas. >>>>> >>>>> snowch sent the following on 7/12/2009 2:11 PM: >>>>>> I've realised that I need to use relationships from other posts, >>>>>> and from >>>>>> the >>>>>> ManagerReferenceParty.pdf. >>>>>> >>>>>> What is not clear is how? The UI doesn't have much meaning without >>>>>> some >>>>>> examples: >>>>>> >>>>>> New Relationship: >>>>>> >>>>>> of the Party with ID ___ >>>>>> in the role of ___ >>>>>> is a ___ >>>>>> of the current party ___ >>>>>> in the role of ___ >>>>>> And Party Relationship Security ___ >>>>>>> From Calendar ___ >>>>>> Thru Calendar ___ >>>>>> Comments ___ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> BJ Freeman wrote: >>>>>>> it is done through relationships >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> snowch sent the following on 7/12/2009 11:52 AM: >>>>>>>> One area I'm struggling with is trying to create a party group and >>>>>>>> adding >>>>>>>> parties to the group. Is there any documentation on this specific >>>>>>>> area? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Many thanks... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> BJ Freeman wrote: >>>>>>>>> End user Docs >>>>>>>>> There was an effort for a time to generate a help system of enduser >>>>>>>>> docs, but that has sort of fallen off. >>>>>>>>> http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBENDUSER/End+User+Documentation >>>>>>>>> there are fragements though out the doc site >>>>>>>>> http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBIZ/OFBiz+Applications+User+Manual >>>>>>>>> that has links in it to others >>>>>>>>> http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBIZ/Accounting+Screens+Reference >>>>>>>>> you just have to go through them to pull them all together. >>>>>>>>> Hopefully some will put on energy into the first link to tie all >>>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>>> together. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> snowch sent the following on 7/12/2009 7:11 AM: >>>>>>>>>> By functional, I mean training that is aimed at the non-technical >>>>>>>>>> user. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I am ok with developing ofbiz applications from scratch, but now I >>>>>>>>>> need >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> know how to use more of the ofbiz functionality out-of-the-box. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Reading through the Len Silverston data model books are useful, >>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>> only >>>>>>>>>> really describe the data model. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Many thanks, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> BJ Freeman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> not sure your definition for functional. >>>>>>>>>>> http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBADMIN/OFBiz+Documentation+Index >>>>>>>>>>> on top of that David use to run seminars once a year. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> snowch sent the following on 7/10/2009 2:52 PM: >>>>>>>>>>>> Is there any functional training available for ofbiz? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Many thanks, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> BJ Freeman >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation >>>>>>>>>>> http://bjfreeman.elance.com >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/profile?viewProfile=&key=1237480&locale=en_US&trk=tab_pro >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Systems Integrator. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> BJ Freeman >>>>>>>>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation >>>>>>>>> http://bjfreeman.elance.com >>>>>>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/profile?viewProfile=&key=1237480&locale=en_US&trk=tab_pro >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Systems Integrator. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> BJ Freeman >>>>>>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation >>>>>>> http://bjfreeman.elance.com >>>>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/profile?viewProfile=&key=1237480&locale=en_US&trk=tab_pro >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Systems Integrator. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> BJ Freeman >>>>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation >>>>> http://bjfreeman.elance.com >>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/profile?viewProfile=&key=1237480&locale=en_US&trk=tab_pro >>>>> >>>>> Systems Integrator. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> -- >>> BJ Freeman >>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation >>> http://bjfreeman.elance.com >>> http://www.linkedin.com/profile?viewProfile=&key=1237480&locale=en_US&trk=tab_pro >>> >>> Systems Integrator. >>> >> |
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In reply to this post by David E. Jones-2
I look forward to Ruth Hoffman's response!
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In reply to this post by BJ Freeman
Hello Chris:
I too know how frustrating it can be as I started using OFBiz before there was much documentation. That is why, now that I have time, I am working on end-user documentation and training. Currently, I've got a book in the works covering the eCommerce component & the Catalog Manager. Once I finish that, I plan to move on and tackle less well known parts of the project. If you have a chance, you could help by sending me a list of what you'd like to see worked on. IMHO, the only thing holding OFBiz back is lack of user friendly documentation and training. Look forward to hearing from you. You can contact me directly at: [hidden email]. Regards, Ruth BJ Freeman wrote: > correction it has apache license > > BJ Freeman sent the following on 7/12/2009 3:55 PM: > >> LOL, sorry but I started when there was no documentation at all, 2003. >> I have learned ofbiz. That is how much I believe in it. >> Open bravo does not provide the frame I need for Automation. >> it is also GPL licensed. >> >From what I have seen it is not an enterprise level software. >> To each his own. >> :D >> >> snowch sent the following on 7/12/2009 2:45 PM: >> >>> The file DemoOrganizationData.xml looks as though it will provide the answers >>> I am looking for. Many thanks! However the real problem is that learning >>> ofbiz end user functionality is time consuming due to the lack of >>> documentation. >>> >>> I found the same problem a few years back when learning technical >>> development of ofbiz. In the end I gave up until Jonathon Wong's book was >>> recently released. That book saved me hundreds of hours of trial and error >>> development. I can now easily develop standalone ofbiz applications. >>> However, I am now struggling with utilizing the existing ofbiz >>> functionality. >>> >>> I think I will probably (reluctantly) end up moving to openbravo as my >>> development framework for ERP applications based on the availability of >>> their functional and developer training material (see >>> http://www.openbravo.com/services/training/). >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> BJ Freeman wrote: >>> >>>> yes, I got error messages the first time, >>>> from the error messages I learned what needed to be done >>>> hard way to learn. >>>> I also looked at the DemoOrganization.xml for Ideas. >>>> >>>> snowch sent the following on 7/12/2009 2:11 PM: >>>> >>>>> I've realised that I need to use relationships from other posts, and from >>>>> the >>>>> ManagerReferenceParty.pdf. >>>>> >>>>> What is not clear is how? The UI doesn't have much meaning without some >>>>> examples: >>>>> >>>>> New Relationship: >>>>> >>>>> of the Party with ID ___ >>>>> in the role of ___ >>>>> is a ___ >>>>> of the current party ___ >>>>> in the role of ___ >>>>> And Party Relationship Security ___ >>>>> >From Calendar ___ >>>>> Thru Calendar ___ >>>>> Comments ___ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> BJ Freeman wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> it is done through relationships >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> snowch sent the following on 7/12/2009 11:52 AM: >>>>>> >>>>>>> One area I'm struggling with is trying to create a party group and >>>>>>> adding >>>>>>> parties to the group. Is there any documentation on this specific >>>>>>> area? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Many thanks... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> BJ Freeman wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> End user Docs >>>>>>>> There was an effort for a time to generate a help system of enduser >>>>>>>> docs, but that has sort of fallen off. >>>>>>>> http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBENDUSER/End+User+Documentation >>>>>>>> there are fragements though out the doc site >>>>>>>> http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBIZ/OFBiz+Applications+User+Manual >>>>>>>> that has links in it to others >>>>>>>> http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBIZ/Accounting+Screens+Reference >>>>>>>> you just have to go through them to pull them all together. >>>>>>>> Hopefully some will put on energy into the first link to tie all these >>>>>>>> together. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> snowch sent the following on 7/12/2009 7:11 AM: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> By functional, I mean training that is aimed at the non-technical >>>>>>>>> user. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I am ok with developing ofbiz applications from scratch, but now I >>>>>>>>> need >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> know how to use more of the ofbiz functionality out-of-the-box. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Reading through the Len Silverston data model books are useful, but >>>>>>>>> only >>>>>>>>> really describe the data model. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Many thanks, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> BJ Freeman wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> not sure your definition for functional. >>>>>>>>>> http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBADMIN/OFBiz+Documentation+Index >>>>>>>>>> on top of that David use to run seminars once a year. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> snowch sent the following on 7/10/2009 2:52 PM: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Is there any functional training available for ofbiz? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Many thanks, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> BJ Freeman >>>>>>>>>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation >>>>>>>>>> http://bjfreeman.elance.com >>>>>>>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/profile?viewProfile=&key=1237480&locale=en_US&trk=tab_pro >>>>>>>>>> Systems Integrator. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> BJ Freeman >>>>>>>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation >>>>>>>> http://bjfreeman.elance.com >>>>>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/profile?viewProfile=&key=1237480&locale=en_US&trk=tab_pro >>>>>>>> Systems Integrator. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> BJ Freeman >>>>>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation >>>>>> http://bjfreeman.elance.com >>>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/profile?viewProfile=&key=1237480&locale=en_US&trk=tab_pro >>>>>> Systems Integrator. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> -- >>>> BJ Freeman >>>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation >>>> http://bjfreeman.elance.com >>>> http://www.linkedin.com/profile?viewProfile=&key=1237480&locale=en_US&trk=tab_pro >>>> Systems Integrator. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> > > |
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In reply to this post by David E. Jones-2
David:
Thanks for the endorsement! Yes, things are moving along nicely. I'm hoping to have a publicly accessible website up soon so I can start distributing what I've completed so far. Thanks again. Ruth David E Jones wrote: > > Yes, thanks BJ. There are some introductory videos available for free > download: > > http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBTECH/Framework+Introduction+Videos+and+Diagrams > > > These include a complete introduction to the OFBiz Framework and an > overview with examples for all primary best practice tools. > > Related to that Advanced Framework Course, I did a complete set of > videos for that way back when, and the full transcript is available > for free on the attachments to this page (the goal for putting them > there was to get the applicable material transferred to the XSD files > for in-editor reference, and it is helpful for general stuff too): > > http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBTECH/Advanced+Framework+Transcription+Work+Plan > > > Of course, neither of these have been updated for a while. The > business side of this was interesting: it took me about 1 month > working full-time (plus hiring a technical writer for 1 month > full-time to transcribe the videos) to prepare for and produce these, > and then about 2.5 years selling them at $250 (then later much less) > to recover the investment. > > I may do that again at some point, but am not in a position to right > now and in general I consider the UBPL effort a much higher priority > (and one that should help a LOT with information more helpful for > end-users). > > A good effort recently mentioned is one by Ruth Hoffman. I talked to > someone who reviewed what she has done so far and evidently she has > quite a lot done already. If we're all lucky she'll have something > published soon! From talking with her I also understand that she wants > to do training along with this, and I hope that I can support her in > those efforts as I agree they are of great value for the project! > > -David > > > On Jul 12, 2009, at 6:39 PM, BJ Freeman wrote: > >> you can contact David and ask about a class that would be the best >> advantage. >> He used to do that. >> in fact there is an outline he uses for advance frame work course. >> http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBTECH/Advanced+Framework+Course >> >> SELC Sales Div sent the following on 7/12/2009 5:31 PM: >>> >>> Yes, I have the same problem till the mentioned book - issued; I was >>> starting in 2006. >>> I think million of people do not mind to spend a few dollars to get >>> a new >>> book or documents >>> for a complete step-by-step HOW-TO-all functions of OFBiz with REGULAR >>> update to save >>> time consuming - hundreds of hours?? >>> >>> >>> - Charles TJ >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: snowch [mailto:[hidden email]] >>> Sent: 13 Juli 2009 4:45 >>> To: [hidden email] >>> Subject: Re: functional training >>> >>> >>> >>> The file DemoOrganizationData.xml looks as though it will provide the >>> answers >>> I am looking for. Many thanks! However the real problem is that >>> learning >>> ofbiz end user functionality is time consuming due to the lack of >>> documentation. >>> >>> I found the same problem a few years back when learning technical >>> development of ofbiz. In the end I gave up until Jonathon Wong's >>> book was >>> recently released. That book saved me hundreds of hours of trial >>> and error >>> development. I can now easily develop standalone ofbiz applications. >>> However, I am now struggling with utilizing the existing ofbiz >>> functionality. >>> >>> I think I will probably (reluctantly) end up moving to openbravo as my >>> development framework for ERP applications based on the availability of >>> their functional and developer training material (see >>> http://www.openbravo.com/services/training/). >>> >>> >>> >> >> -- >> BJ Freeman >> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation >> http://bjfreeman.elance.com >> http://www.linkedin.com/profile?viewProfile=&key=1237480&locale=en_US&trk=tab_pro >> >> Systems Integrator. >> > > |
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In reply to this post by BJ Freeman
Hello All:
To start with, this documentation and training will be end-user in nature. I am starting with the eCommerce component and the Catalog Manager because I have the most end-user experience with those. [And, IMHO, these are tremendous selling points for the project.] I plan to expand to the other components as time permits and a component's functionality can be easily related to eCommerce functions. (For example, Order Entry and product fulfillment as related to the eCommerce storefront.) I'll keep this list posted on my progress. Regards, Ruth BJ Freeman wrote: > is Ruth's technical or end user? the original thread was about getting > end user docs. > > > David E Jones sent the following on 7/12/2009 6:07 PM: > >> Yes, thanks BJ. There are some introductory videos available for free >> download: >> >> http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBTECH/Framework+Introduction+Videos+and+Diagrams >> >> >> These include a complete introduction to the OFBiz Framework and an >> overview with examples for all primary best practice tools. >> >> Related to that Advanced Framework Course, I did a complete set of >> videos for that way back when, and the full transcript is available for >> free on the attachments to this page (the goal for putting them there >> was to get the applicable material transferred to the XSD files for >> in-editor reference, and it is helpful for general stuff too): >> >> http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBTECH/Advanced+Framework+Transcription+Work+Plan >> >> >> Of course, neither of these have been updated for a while. The business >> side of this was interesting: it took me about 1 month working full-time >> (plus hiring a technical writer for 1 month full-time to transcribe the >> videos) to prepare for and produce these, and then about 2.5 years >> selling them at $250 (then later much less) to recover the investment. >> >> I may do that again at some point, but am not in a position to right now >> and in general I consider the UBPL effort a much higher priority (and >> one that should help a LOT with information more helpful for end-users). >> >> A good effort recently mentioned is one by Ruth Hoffman. I talked to >> someone who reviewed what she has done so far and evidently she has >> quite a lot done already. If we're all lucky she'll have something >> published soon! From talking with her I also understand that she wants >> to do training along with this, and I hope that I can support her in >> those efforts as I agree they are of great value for the project! >> >> -David >> >> >> On Jul 12, 2009, at 6:39 PM, BJ Freeman wrote: >> >> >>> you can contact David and ask about a class that would be the best >>> advantage. >>> He used to do that. >>> in fact there is an outline he uses for advance frame work course. >>> http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBTECH/Advanced+Framework+Course >>> >>> SELC Sales Div sent the following on 7/12/2009 5:31 PM: >>> >>>> Yes, I have the same problem till the mentioned book - issued; I was >>>> starting in 2006. >>>> I think million of people do not mind to spend a few dollars to get a >>>> new >>>> book or documents >>>> for a complete step-by-step HOW-TO-all functions of OFBiz with REGULAR >>>> update to save >>>> time consuming - hundreds of hours?? >>>> >>>> >>>> - Charles TJ >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: snowch [mailto:[hidden email]] >>>> Sent: 13 Juli 2009 4:45 >>>> To: [hidden email] >>>> Subject: Re: functional training >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The file DemoOrganizationData.xml looks as though it will provide the >>>> answers >>>> I am looking for. Many thanks! However the real problem is that >>>> learning >>>> ofbiz end user functionality is time consuming due to the lack of >>>> documentation. >>>> >>>> I found the same problem a few years back when learning technical >>>> development of ofbiz. In the end I gave up until Jonathon Wong's >>>> book was >>>> recently released. That book saved me hundreds of hours of trial and >>>> error >>>> development. I can now easily develop standalone ofbiz applications. >>>> However, I am now struggling with utilizing the existing ofbiz >>>> functionality. >>>> >>>> I think I will probably (reluctantly) end up moving to openbravo as my >>>> development framework for ERP applications based on the availability of >>>> their functional and developer training material (see >>>> http://www.openbravo.com/services/training/). >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> BJ Freeman >>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation >>> http://bjfreeman.elance.com >>> http://www.linkedin.com/profile?viewProfile=&key=1237480&locale=en_US&trk=tab_pro >>> >>> Systems Integrator. >>> >>> >> > > |
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Right now I am learning OFBiz, but knowing nothing about basics of OFbiz, simplest application takes hours/days (for some my forum questions might be very basic but I am still learning).
I think million of people will be helped by this effort. People also don't mind to spend a few dollars to get a new book or documents for a complete step-by-step HOW-TO GUIDE for OFBiz. This will save lot of hours of lot of people. Also OFBiz user who are holding themselves just because of lack of Help documentation can get on OFBiz making it more popular and widely used.
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In reply to this post by Ruth Hoffman-2
I had a quick glance at your book. It looks really good. How about covering
related areas, such as picking, facility and work-effort? Regards Torstein Hegbom -----Opprinnelig melding----- Fra: Ruth Hoffman [mailto:[hidden email]] Sendt: 13. juli 2009 16:48 Til: [hidden email] Emne: Re: functional training Hello All: To start with, this documentation and training will be end-user in nature. I am starting with the eCommerce component and the Catalog Manager because I have the most end-user experience with those. [And, IMHO, these are tremendous selling points for the project.] I plan to expand to the other components as time permits and a component's functionality can be easily related to eCommerce functions. (For example, Order Entry and product fulfillment as related to the eCommerce storefront.) I'll keep this list posted on my progress. Regards, Ruth BJ Freeman wrote: > is Ruth's technical or end user? the original thread was about getting > end user docs. > > > David E Jones sent the following on 7/12/2009 6:07 PM: > >> Yes, thanks BJ. There are some introductory videos available for free >> download: >> >> rams >> >> >> These include a complete introduction to the OFBiz Framework and an >> overview with examples for all primary best practice tools. >> >> Related to that Advanced Framework Course, I did a complete set of >> videos for that way back when, and the full transcript is available for >> free on the attachments to this page (the goal for putting them there >> was to get the applicable material transferred to the XSD files for >> in-editor reference, and it is helpful for general stuff too): >> >> Plan >> >> >> Of course, neither of these have been updated for a while. The business >> side of this was interesting: it took me about 1 month working full-time >> (plus hiring a technical writer for 1 month full-time to transcribe the >> videos) to prepare for and produce these, and then about 2.5 years >> selling them at $250 (then later much less) to recover the investment. >> >> I may do that again at some point, but am not in a position to right now >> and in general I consider the UBPL effort a much higher priority (and >> one that should help a LOT with information more helpful for end-users). >> >> A good effort recently mentioned is one by Ruth Hoffman. I talked to >> someone who reviewed what she has done so far and evidently she has >> quite a lot done already. If we're all lucky she'll have something >> published soon! From talking with her I also understand that she wants >> to do training along with this, and I hope that I can support her in >> those efforts as I agree they are of great value for the project! >> >> -David >> >> >> On Jul 12, 2009, at 6:39 PM, BJ Freeman wrote: >> >> >>> you can contact David and ask about a class that would be the best >>> advantage. >>> He used to do that. >>> in fact there is an outline he uses for advance frame work course. >>> http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBTECH/Advanced+Framework+Course >>> >>> SELC Sales Div sent the following on 7/12/2009 5:31 PM: >>> >>>> Yes, I have the same problem till the mentioned book - issued; I was >>>> starting in 2006. >>>> I think million of people do not mind to spend a few dollars to get a >>>> new >>>> book or documents >>>> for a complete step-by-step HOW-TO-all functions of OFBiz with REGULAR >>>> update to save >>>> time consuming - hundreds of hours?? >>>> >>>> >>>> - Charles TJ >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: snowch [mailto:[hidden email]] >>>> Sent: 13 Juli 2009 4:45 >>>> To: [hidden email] >>>> Subject: Re: functional training >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The file DemoOrganizationData.xml looks as though it will provide the >>>> answers >>>> I am looking for. Many thanks! However the real problem is that >>>> learning >>>> ofbiz end user functionality is time consuming due to the lack of >>>> documentation. >>>> >>>> I found the same problem a few years back when learning technical >>>> development of ofbiz. In the end I gave up until Jonathon Wong's >>>> book was >>>> recently released. That book saved me hundreds of hours of trial and >>>> error >>>> development. I can now easily develop standalone ofbiz applications. >>>> However, I am now struggling with utilizing the existing ofbiz >>>> functionality. >>>> >>>> I think I will probably (reluctantly) end up moving to openbravo as my >>>> development framework for ERP applications based on the availability of >>>> their functional and developer training material (see >>>> http://www.openbravo.com/services/training/). >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> BJ Freeman >>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation >>> http://bjfreeman.elance.com >>> b_pro >>> >>> Systems Integrator. >>> >>> >> > > |
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Hi Torstein:
Thanks for the endorsement! Please tell your friends and colleagues about the site. I'm continually working on adding content and, of course completing this book. Regards, Ruth I will put that on the list... Torstein Hegbom wrote: > I had a quick glance at your book. It looks really good. How about covering > related areas, such as picking, facility and work-effort? > > Regards > Torstein Hegbom > > -----Opprinnelig melding----- > Fra: Ruth Hoffman [mailto:[hidden email]] > Sendt: 13. juli 2009 16:48 > Til: [hidden email] > Emne: Re: functional training > > Hello All: > To start with, this documentation and training will be end-user in > nature. I am starting with the eCommerce component and the Catalog > Manager because I have the most end-user experience with those. [And, > IMHO, these are tremendous selling points for the project.] > > I plan to expand to the other components as time permits and a > component's functionality can be easily related to eCommerce functions. > (For example, Order Entry and product fulfillment as related to the > eCommerce storefront.) > > I'll keep this list posted on my progress. > Regards, > Ruth > BJ Freeman wrote: > >> is Ruth's technical or end user? the original thread was about getting >> end user docs. >> >> >> David E Jones sent the following on 7/12/2009 6:07 PM: >> >> >>> Yes, thanks BJ. There are some introductory videos available for free >>> download: >>> >>> >>> > http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBTECH/Framework+Introduction+Videos+and+Diag > rams > >>> These include a complete introduction to the OFBiz Framework and an >>> overview with examples for all primary best practice tools. >>> >>> Related to that Advanced Framework Course, I did a complete set of >>> videos for that way back when, and the full transcript is available for >>> free on the attachments to this page (the goal for putting them there >>> was to get the applicable material transferred to the XSD files for >>> in-editor reference, and it is helpful for general stuff too): >>> >>> >>> > http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBTECH/Advanced+Framework+Transcription+Work+ > Plan > >>> Of course, neither of these have been updated for a while. The business >>> side of this was interesting: it took me about 1 month working full-time >>> (plus hiring a technical writer for 1 month full-time to transcribe the >>> videos) to prepare for and produce these, and then about 2.5 years >>> selling them at $250 (then later much less) to recover the investment. >>> >>> I may do that again at some point, but am not in a position to right now >>> and in general I consider the UBPL effort a much higher priority (and >>> one that should help a LOT with information more helpful for end-users). >>> >>> A good effort recently mentioned is one by Ruth Hoffman. I talked to >>> someone who reviewed what she has done so far and evidently she has >>> quite a lot done already. If we're all lucky she'll have something >>> published soon! From talking with her I also understand that she wants >>> to do training along with this, and I hope that I can support her in >>> those efforts as I agree they are of great value for the project! >>> >>> -David >>> >>> >>> On Jul 12, 2009, at 6:39 PM, BJ Freeman wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> you can contact David and ask about a class that would be the best >>>> advantage. >>>> He used to do that. >>>> in fact there is an outline he uses for advance frame work course. >>>> http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBTECH/Advanced+Framework+Course >>>> >>>> SELC Sales Div sent the following on 7/12/2009 5:31 PM: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Yes, I have the same problem till the mentioned book - issued; I was >>>>> starting in 2006. >>>>> I think million of people do not mind to spend a few dollars to get a >>>>> new >>>>> book or documents >>>>> for a complete step-by-step HOW-TO-all functions of OFBiz with REGULAR >>>>> update to save >>>>> time consuming - hundreds of hours?? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> - Charles TJ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: snowch [mailto:[hidden email]] >>>>> Sent: 13 Juli 2009 4:45 >>>>> To: [hidden email] >>>>> Subject: Re: functional training >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The file DemoOrganizationData.xml looks as though it will provide the >>>>> answers >>>>> I am looking for. Many thanks! However the real problem is that >>>>> learning >>>>> ofbiz end user functionality is time consuming due to the lack of >>>>> documentation. >>>>> >>>>> I found the same problem a few years back when learning technical >>>>> development of ofbiz. In the end I gave up until Jonathon Wong's >>>>> book was >>>>> recently released. That book saved me hundreds of hours of trial and >>>>> error >>>>> development. I can now easily develop standalone ofbiz applications. >>>>> However, I am now struggling with utilizing the existing ofbiz >>>>> functionality. >>>>> >>>>> I think I will probably (reluctantly) end up moving to openbravo as my >>>>> development framework for ERP applications based on the availability of >>>>> their functional and developer training material (see >>>>> http://www.openbravo.com/services/training/). >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> BJ Freeman >>>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation >>>> http://bjfreeman.elance.com >>>> >>>> > http://www.linkedin.com/profile?viewProfile=&key=1237480&locale=en_US&trk=ta > b_pro > >>>> Systems Integrator. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> > > > |
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In reply to this post by Ruth Hoffman-2
Hi Ruth,
This is the training material that is tempting me towards OpenBravo (who are ofbiz's main competitor from my perspective): http://www.openbravo.com/files/training/course-guide-basic-functional-training_online.pdf I have my cheque book ready to enrol! If I attend their functional training, I will also need to attend their developer trainings to be able to offer services to my clients (total training cost approx $6,000). The training is expensive, but I am losing a lot of time (and revenue) trying to work out how ofbiz works from a end user perspective... What would be your ETA for producing ofbiz training covering similar topics to the above document? Many thanks, Chris
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Hi Chris:
First off, thanks for posting this. I will share with you that while I was learning OFBiz and using it for a client implementation, I paid an OFBiz consultant for help on specific issues - as I encountered them - related to my lack of understanding of the software. I considered those expenses as the cost of doing business. I also purchased and tried my hardest to get through the available videos. It wasn't easy. Not to denigrate David or anyone else associated with the production of the training videos, but I am a little dense. Everything you have always heard about how people learn, well that applies to me in spades! The fire hose approach doesn't work for me. In all honesty, that was when I first conceived of developing training materials for OFBiz. I have not seen the document you linked to, but rest assured, I am going to review it today! Before I answer your question, I am curious to know: 1) Are you most interested in online training? Would you attend (and pay for) an in person session? How about a DVD that you purchase and then use at your own leisure? What would be your preferred delivery medium? 2) Do you anticipate customized end-user training for your clients? 3) If online training is offered, how "interactive" does it need to be? Is there some online training that you have recently taken that you would recommend as an example of a "good" training course? Now to your question: I will have to look at this document and see what it is they offer. Having developed and delivered course ware for proprietary software vendors in a past life, I can tell you that coming up with an ETA for a training course is like coming up with the time and cost for developing software - you take your best guess based on experience, double it and then add a few weeks :-) Just kidding. Let me look at this and I'll get back to the list in a day or so and let you know. Regards, Ruth snowch wrote: > Hi Ruth, > > This is the training material that is tempting me towards OpenBravo (who are > ofbiz's main competitor from my perspective): > > http://www.openbravo.com/files/training/course-guide-basic-functional-training_online.pdf > > I have my cheque book ready to enrol! If I attend their functional > training, I will also need to attend their developer trainings to be able to > offer services to my clients (total training cost approx $6,000). The > training is expensive, but I am losing a lot of time (and revenue) trying to > work out how ofbiz works from a end user perspective... > > What would be your ETA for producing ofbiz training covering similar topics > to the above document? > > Many thanks, > > Chris > > > Ruth Hoffman-2 wrote: > >> Hello Chris: >> I too know how frustrating it can be as I started using OFBiz before >> there was much documentation. That is why, now that I have time, I am >> working on end-user documentation and training. Currently, I've got a >> book in the works covering the eCommerce component & the Catalog >> Manager. Once I finish that, I plan to move on and tackle less well >> known parts of the project. If you have a chance, you could help by >> sending me a list of what you'd like to see worked on. >> >> IMHO, the only thing holding OFBiz back is lack of user friendly >> documentation and training. >> >> Look forward to hearing from you. You can contact me directly at: >> [hidden email]. >> >> Regards, >> Ruth >> >> BJ Freeman wrote: >> >>> correction it has apache license >>> >>> BJ Freeman sent the following on 7/12/2009 3:55 PM: >>> >>> >>>> LOL, sorry but I started when there was no documentation at all, 2003. >>>> I have learned ofbiz. That is how much I believe in it. >>>> Open bravo does not provide the frame I need for Automation. >>>> it is also GPL licensed. >>>> >From what I have seen it is not an enterprise level software. >>>> To each his own. >>>> :D >>>> >>>> snowch sent the following on 7/12/2009 2:45 PM: >>>> >>>> >>>>> The file DemoOrganizationData.xml looks as though it will provide the >>>>> answers >>>>> I am looking for. Many thanks! However the real problem is that >>>>> learning >>>>> ofbiz end user functionality is time consuming due to the lack of >>>>> documentation. >>>>> >>>>> I found the same problem a few years back when learning technical >>>>> development of ofbiz. In the end I gave up until Jonathon Wong's book >>>>> was >>>>> recently released. That book saved me hundreds of hours of trial and >>>>> error >>>>> development. I can now easily develop standalone ofbiz applications. >>>>> However, I am now struggling with utilizing the existing ofbiz >>>>> functionality. >>>>> >>>>> I think I will probably (reluctantly) end up moving to openbravo as my >>>>> development framework for ERP applications based on the availability of >>>>> their functional and developer training material (see >>>>> http://www.openbravo.com/services/training/). >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> BJ Freeman wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> yes, I got error messages the first time, >>>>>> from the error messages I learned what needed to be done >>>>>> hard way to learn. >>>>>> I also looked at the DemoOrganization.xml for Ideas. >>>>>> >>>>>> snowch sent the following on 7/12/2009 2:11 PM: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> I've realised that I need to use relationships from other posts, and >>>>>>> from >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> ManagerReferenceParty.pdf. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What is not clear is how? The UI doesn't have much meaning without >>>>>>> some >>>>>>> examples: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> New Relationship: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> of the Party with ID ___ >>>>>>> in the role of ___ >>>>>>> is a ___ >>>>>>> of the current party ___ >>>>>>> in the role of ___ >>>>>>> And Party Relationship Security ___ >>>>>>> >From Calendar ___ >>>>>>> Thru Calendar ___ >>>>>>> Comments ___ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> BJ Freeman wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> it is done through relationships >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> snowch sent the following on 7/12/2009 11:52 AM: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> One area I'm struggling with is trying to create a party group and >>>>>>>>> adding >>>>>>>>> parties to the group. Is there any documentation on this specific >>>>>>>>> area? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Many thanks... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> BJ Freeman wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> End user Docs >>>>>>>>>> There was an effort for a time to generate a help system of >>>>>>>>>> enduser >>>>>>>>>> docs, but that has sort of fallen off. >>>>>>>>>> http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBENDUSER/End+User+Documentation >>>>>>>>>> there are fragements though out the doc site >>>>>>>>>> http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBIZ/OFBiz+Applications+User+Manual >>>>>>>>>> that has links in it to others >>>>>>>>>> http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBIZ/Accounting+Screens+Reference >>>>>>>>>> you just have to go through them to pull them all together. >>>>>>>>>> Hopefully some will put on energy into the first link to tie all >>>>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>>>> together. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> snowch sent the following on 7/12/2009 7:11 AM: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> By functional, I mean training that is aimed at the non-technical >>>>>>>>>>> user. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I am ok with developing ofbiz applications from scratch, but now >>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>> need >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> know how to use more of the ofbiz functionality out-of-the-box. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Reading through the Len Silverston data model books are useful, >>>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>>> only >>>>>>>>>>> really describe the data model. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Many thanks, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> BJ Freeman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> not sure your definition for functional. >>>>>>>>>>>> http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBADMIN/OFBiz+Documentation+Index >>>>>>>>>>>> on top of that David use to run seminars once a year. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> snowch sent the following on 7/10/2009 2:52 PM: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Is there any functional training available for ofbiz? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Many thanks, >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> BJ Freeman >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation >>>>>>>>>>>> http://bjfreeman.elance.com >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/profile?viewProfile=&key=1237480&locale=en_US&trk=tab_pro >>>>>>>>>>>> Systems Integrator. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> BJ Freeman >>>>>>>>>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation >>>>>>>>>> http://bjfreeman.elance.com >>>>>>>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/profile?viewProfile=&key=1237480&locale=en_US&trk=tab_pro >>>>>>>>>> Systems Integrator. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> BJ Freeman >>>>>>>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation >>>>>>>> http://bjfreeman.elance.com >>>>>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/profile?viewProfile=&key=1237480&locale=en_US&trk=tab_pro >>>>>>>> Systems Integrator. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> BJ Freeman >>>>>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation >>>>>> http://bjfreeman.elance.com >>>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/profile?viewProfile=&key=1237480&locale=en_US&trk=tab_pro >>>>>> Systems Integrator. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> >>> >> >> > > |
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I didn't make it clear in my last post that my comments are inline (and prefixed with CS>)
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Hi Chris:
Thanks for taking the time to answer. This will help me plan next steps. As regards your original question: the short answer is 4-6 months. If you are interested, here are some comments regarding that estimate: On the surface, this appears to be a very well produced and packaged product. Similar production quality work on my part could add (or subtract if I didn't do it) weeks from the estimate. For example, finding an online course development & delivery tool (such as Adobe Captivate) that works for me and my delivery objectives would take some time. I could develop the content outline and labs/exercises in approximately 2-3 months, but then I would need almost as much time to figure out how to get it online. The content of this course appears to be focused on MRP implementations - specifically on the materials planning and manufacturing features and functions of OpenBravo. My experience (and current focus) is on the ecommerce aspects of OFBiz. Specifically I have been concentrating on end-user features and functions of the Catalog Manager - that being the end-user application providing most of the ecommerce related management capabilities. I believe, and I could be wrong here, most OFBiz implementations are ecommerce first and manufacturing/MRP later. That being said, it makes more sense to me (being a one person show) to concentrate on ecommerce and then segue to other OFBiz ERP features as time permits. Given I'd be starting from scratch for this effort, I believe 2-3 months for an outline and content including labs is a reasonable estimate. [That assumes existence of equivalent end-user capabilities within OFBiz.] Most importantly for me: I don't see any mention in the course guide of features & functions related to product management which is a huge part of what the Catalog Manager is all about. The idea that you can have a separate business unit - Marketing say - be responsible for products and getting products to market by using the Catalog Manager and not need the IT staff to build new catalogs, products or product dependency rules is a huge selling point for OFBiz! You would not believe how many large companies I've worked with where the developers/programmers actually hard code product features and dependencies into the application. It boggles the mind. So, there you have it. As I said before, I hope the lack of training resources does not deter you from further using OFBiz. My experience has been that the learning curve is worth the effort. Your mileage may vary, but I haven't found anything else with nearly as much potential. Regards, Ruth PS - Yes, I agree, David's videos would be a great complement to Jonathon's book. Unfortunately, when I was using the videos, Jonathon's book wasn't even a glimmer in Packt Publishing's eyes. :-) snowch wrote: > I didn't make it clear in my last post that my comments are inline (and > prefixed with CS>) > > > snowch wrote: > >> >> Ruth Hoffman-2 wrote: >> >>> Hi Chris: >>> First off, thanks for posting this. I will share with you that while I >>> was learning OFBiz and using it for a client implementation, I paid an >>> OFBiz consultant for help on specific issues - as I encountered them - >>> related to my lack of understanding of the software. I considered those >>> expenses as the cost of doing business. I also purchased and tried my >>> hardest to get through the available videos. It wasn't easy. Not to >>> denigrate David or anyone else associated with the production of the >>> training videos, but I am a little dense. Everything you have always >>> heard about how people learn, well that applies to me in spades! The >>> fire hose approach doesn't work for me. In all honesty, that was when I >>> first conceived of developing training materials for OFBiz. >>> >>> I have not seen the document you linked to, but rest assured, I am going >>> to review it today! Before I answer your question, I am curious to know: >>> >>> 1) Are you most interested in online training? Would you attend (and pay >>> for) an in person session? How about a DVD that you purchase and then >>> use at your own leisure? What would be your preferred delivery medium? >>> >>> CS> I initially found the videos from David hard work too. However, I >>> find them extremely useful and complementary to the ofbiz book from >>> Jonathon Wong. >>> >>> CS> My first preference is ebooks. I can print out a chapter stick it in >>> my back pocket and read it when waiting for the train, etc. I don't have >>> to read it in depth as I can jump back to the ebook for the details when >>> needed. I read hundreds of tech books this way. >>> >>> CS> My second preference is for self-paced online learning (or dvd). >>> This format is much more flexible than attending a course. Being >>> self-employed I don't want to lose income while attending courses. I >>> also have a young family and don't want to spend too much time away from >>> home. >>> >>> 2) Do you anticipate customized end-user training for your clients? >>> >>> CS> I would hope so, although all my ofbiz work so far has been custom >>> development. I'm in the catch 22 that I can't start offering OOTB stuff >>> because I don't know it. >>> >>> 3) If online training is offered, how "interactive" does it need to be? >>> Is there some online training that you have recently taken that you >>> would recommend as an example of a "good" training course? >>> >>> CS> I haven't taken any online training for a few years, but when I did I >>> prefered the stuff that could be printed out and read offline! Maybe it >>> is because I spend so much time every day looking at a screen that >>> reading from paper gives my eyes a break? >>> >>> Now to your question: I will have to look at this document and see what >>> it is they offer. Having developed and delivered course ware for >>> proprietary software vendors in a past life, I can tell you that coming >>> up with an ETA for a training course is like coming up with the time and >>> cost for developing software - you take your best guess based on >>> experience, double it and then add a few weeks :-) Just kidding. >>> >>> Let me look at this and I'll get back to the list in a day or so and let >>> you know. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Ruth >>> snowch wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Ruth, >>>> >>>> This is the training material that is tempting me towards OpenBravo (who >>>> are >>>> ofbiz's main competitor from my perspective): >>>> >>>> http://www.openbravo.com/files/training/course-guide-basic-functional-training_online.pdf >>>> >>>> I have my cheque book ready to enrol! If I attend their functional >>>> training, I will also need to attend their developer trainings to be >>>> able to >>>> offer services to my clients (total training cost approx $6,000). The >>>> training is expensive, but I am losing a lot of time (and revenue) >>>> trying to >>>> work out how ofbiz works from a end user perspective... >>>> >>>> What would be your ETA for producing ofbiz training covering similar >>>> topics >>>> to the above document? >>>> >>>> Many thanks, >>>> >>>> Chris >>>> >>>> >>>> Ruth Hoffman-2 wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hello Chris: >>>>> I too know how frustrating it can be as I started using OFBiz before >>>>> there was much documentation. That is why, now that I have time, I am >>>>> working on end-user documentation and training. Currently, I've got a >>>>> book in the works covering the eCommerce component & the Catalog >>>>> Manager. Once I finish that, I plan to move on and tackle less well >>>>> known parts of the project. If you have a chance, you could help by >>>>> sending me a list of what you'd like to see worked on. >>>>> >>>>> IMHO, the only thing holding OFBiz back is lack of user friendly >>>>> documentation and training. >>>>> >>>>> Look forward to hearing from you. You can contact me directly at: >>>>> [hidden email]. >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> Ruth >>>>> >>>>> BJ Freeman wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> correction it has apache license >>>>>> >>>>>> BJ Freeman sent the following on 7/12/2009 3:55 PM: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> LOL, sorry but I started when there was no documentation at all, >>>>>>> 2003. >>>>>>> I have learned ofbiz. That is how much I believe in it. >>>>>>> Open bravo does not provide the frame I need for Automation. >>>>>>> it is also GPL licensed. >>>>>>> >From what I have seen it is not an enterprise level software. >>>>>>> To each his own. >>>>>>> :D >>>>>>> >>>>>>> snowch sent the following on 7/12/2009 2:45 PM: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The file DemoOrganizationData.xml looks as though it will provide >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> answers >>>>>>>> I am looking for. Many thanks! However the real problem is that >>>>>>>> learning >>>>>>>> ofbiz end user functionality is time consuming due to the lack of >>>>>>>> documentation. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I found the same problem a few years back when learning technical >>>>>>>> development of ofbiz. In the end I gave up until Jonathon Wong's >>>>>>>> book >>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>> recently released. That book saved me hundreds of hours of trial >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> error >>>>>>>> development. I can now easily develop standalone ofbiz >>>>>>>> applications. >>>>>>>> However, I am now struggling with utilizing the existing ofbiz >>>>>>>> functionality. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I think I will probably (reluctantly) end up moving to openbravo as >>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>> development framework for ERP applications based on the availability >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> their functional and developer training material (see >>>>>>>> http://www.openbravo.com/services/training/). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> BJ Freeman wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> yes, I got error messages the first time, >>>>>>>>> from the error messages I learned what needed to be done >>>>>>>>> hard way to learn. >>>>>>>>> I also looked at the DemoOrganization.xml for Ideas. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> snowch sent the following on 7/12/2009 2:11 PM: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I've realised that I need to use relationships from other posts, >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> ManagerReferenceParty.pdf. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> What is not clear is how? The UI doesn't have much meaning >>>>>>>>>> without >>>>>>>>>> some >>>>>>>>>> examples: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> New Relationship: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> of the Party with ID ___ >>>>>>>>>> in the role of ___ >>>>>>>>>> is a ___ >>>>>>>>>> of the current party ___ >>>>>>>>>> in the role of ___ >>>>>>>>>> And Party Relationship Security ___ >>>>>>>>>> >From Calendar ___ >>>>>>>>>> Thru Calendar ___ >>>>>>>>>> Comments ___ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> BJ Freeman wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> it is done through relationships >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> snowch sent the following on 7/12/2009 11:52 AM: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> One area I'm struggling with is trying to create a party group >>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> adding >>>>>>>>>>>> parties to the group. Is there any documentation on this >>>>>>>>>>>> specific >>>>>>>>>>>> area? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Many thanks... >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> BJ Freeman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> End user Docs >>>>>>>>>>>>> There was an effort for a time to generate a help system of >>>>>>>>>>>>> enduser >>>>>>>>>>>>> docs, but that has sort of fallen off. >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBENDUSER/End+User+Documentation >>>>>>>>>>>>> there are fragements though out the doc site >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBIZ/OFBiz+Applications+User+Manual >>>>>>>>>>>>> that has links in it to others >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBIZ/Accounting+Screens+Reference >>>>>>>>>>>>> you just have to go through them to pull them all together. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hopefully some will put on energy into the first link to tie >>>>>>>>>>>>> all >>>>>>>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>>>>>>> together. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> snowch sent the following on 7/12/2009 7:11 AM: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> By functional, I mean training that is aimed at the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> non-technical >>>>>>>>>>>>>> user. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am ok with developing ofbiz applications from scratch, but >>>>>>>>>>>>>> now >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> need >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> know how to use more of the ofbiz functionality >>>>>>>>>>>>>> out-of-the-box. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Reading through the Len Silverston data model books are >>>>>>>>>>>>>> useful, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>>>>>> only >>>>>>>>>>>>>> really describe the data model. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Many thanks, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BJ Freeman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not sure your definition for functional. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBADMIN/OFBiz+Documentation+Index >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on top of that David use to run seminars once a year. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> snowch sent the following on 7/10/2009 2:52 PM: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is there any functional training available for ofbiz? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Many thanks, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BJ Freeman >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://bjfreeman.elance.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/profile?viewProfile=&key=1237480&locale=en_US&trk=tab_pro >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Systems Integrator. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> BJ Freeman >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://bjfreeman.elance.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/profile?viewProfile=&key=1237480&locale=en_US&trk=tab_pro >>>>>>>>>>>>> Systems Integrator. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> BJ Freeman >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation >>>>>>>>>>> http://bjfreeman.elance.com >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/profile?viewProfile=&key=1237480&locale=en_US&trk=tab_pro >>>>>>>>>>> Systems Integrator. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> BJ Freeman >>>>>>>>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation >>>>>>>>> http://bjfreeman.elance.com >>>>>>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/profile?viewProfile=&key=1237480&locale=en_US&trk=tab_pro >>>>>>>>> Systems Integrator. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> > > |
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