https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBTECH/Home

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https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBTECH/Home

Ron Wheeler
This page is a bit confusing.
1) The order and organization of the documents does not seem to follow
any logical pattern. Perhaps there should be some sections to help
direct the reader a bit.

There are documents that a new system administrator would read.
Some are for a person wanting to customize the system by adding an
application.
Some are for the PMC.
Some appear to be background material

Grouping the documents into sections will make it easier to find what a
new person needs to know based on their current task.
When writing documentation for systems that we have built, my
instructions to the people writing documentation is to clearly
understand the "hat" that the person is wearing when they read the document.
Are they wearing their System Administrator hat or their Business
Analyst hat or their Developer's hat, etc.
Even if the audience is often a single person in each organization, they
may play several roles and need the information for each role packaged
in a way that they can find it.
This also makes it a bit easier to write the documents if you consider
the background and interests of the person based on the "hat" you expect
them to be wearing when they read it.

2) Some of the documents are very old and I would think that some are
either obsolete ( to do lists of things that are done already) or
describe ideas/tasks that were never accepted.

Perhaps there could be an "Archived Documents" page that holds the links
to these pages if there is a concern about getting rid of them altogether.


If someone from the PMC would work with me on this, I would be pleased
to try to fix up this page.

Ron

--
Ron Wheeler
President
Artifact Software Inc
email: [hidden email]
skype: ronaldmwheeler
phone: 866-970-2435, ext 102

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Re: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBTECH/Home

Sharan-F
Hi Ron

I'm not PMC but I'm interested in tidy up the OFBiz documentation workspaces. I've checked and I do have edit access to the OFBTECH workspace.

Unless anyone else wants to step in - then I'm happy to work with you on it.

Thanks
Sharan

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Re: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBTECH/Home

Ron Wheeler
That would be great.
Would anyone on the PMC object to us having a go at this?

Does anyone have any strongly held beliefs about this section that they
want to convey before we start?

Ron

On 08/08/2014 11:21 AM, Sharan-F wrote:

> Hi Ron
>
> I'm not PMC but I'm interested in tidy up the OFBiz documentation
> workspaces. I've checked and I do have edit access to the OFBTECH workspace.
>
> Unless anyone else wants to step in - then I'm happy to work with you on it.
>
> Thanks
> Sharan
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://ofbiz.135035.n4.nabble.com/https-cwiki-apache-org-confluence-display-OFBTECH-Home-tp4653306p4653312.html
> Sent from the OFBiz - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>


--
Ron Wheeler
President
Artifact Software Inc
email: [hidden email]
skype: ronaldmwheeler
phone: 866-970-2435, ext 102

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Re: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBTECH/Home

Jacopo Cappellato-4
Thank you for the initiative!

My only suggestion is to consider the idea of merging the content from this Confluence space into the main Confluence space (wiki); having one space to maintain will be easier.

Jacopo

On Aug 8, 2014, at 9:17 PM, Ron Wheeler <[hidden email]> wrote:

> That would be great.
> Would anyone on the PMC object to us having a go at this?
>
> Does anyone have any strongly held beliefs about this section that they want to convey before we start?
>
> Ron
>
> On 08/08/2014 11:21 AM, Sharan-F wrote:
>> Hi Ron
>>
>> I'm not PMC but I'm interested in tidy up the OFBiz documentation
>> workspaces. I've checked and I do have edit access to the OFBTECH workspace.
>>
>> Unless anyone else wants to step in - then I'm happy to work with you on it.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Sharan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context: http://ofbiz.135035.n4.nabble.com/https-cwiki-apache-org-confluence-display-OFBTECH-Home-tp4653306p4653312.html
>> Sent from the OFBiz - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
>
>
> --
> Ron Wheeler
> President
> Artifact Software Inc
> email: [hidden email]
> skype: ronaldmwheeler
> phone: 866-970-2435, ext 102
>

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Re: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBTECH/Home

Jacques Le Roux
Administrator
That's great,

Obviously you have both (Sharan an Ron) good writing skills and practice, so we can expect a better documentation :)

I can help also, though being quite busy at the moment, I will certainly only lurk and jump in if necessary

I have just a request: please keep the exchanges about documentation only in the user ML. Then everybody will follow and not need to duplicate in dev ML

Thanks!

Jacques

Le 09/08/2014 08:31, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :

> Thank you for the initiative!
>
> My only suggestion is to consider the idea of merging the content from this Confluence space into the main Confluence space (wiki); having one space to maintain will be easier.
>
> Jacopo
>
> On Aug 8, 2014, at 9:17 PM, Ron Wheeler <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> That would be great.
>> Would anyone on the PMC object to us having a go at this?
>>
>> Does anyone have any strongly held beliefs about this section that they want to convey before we start?
>>
>> Ron
>>
>> On 08/08/2014 11:21 AM, Sharan-F wrote:
>>> Hi Ron
>>>
>>> I'm not PMC but I'm interested in tidy up the OFBiz documentation
>>> workspaces. I've checked and I do have edit access to the OFBTECH workspace.
>>>
>>> Unless anyone else wants to step in - then I'm happy to work with you on it.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Sharan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> View this message in context: http://ofbiz.135035.n4.nabble.com/https-cwiki-apache-org-confluence-display-OFBTECH-Home-tp4653306p4653312.html
>>> Sent from the OFBiz - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Ron Wheeler
>> President
>> Artifact Software Inc
>> email: [hidden email]
>> skype: ronaldmwheeler
>> phone: 866-970-2435, ext 102
>>
>
>
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Re: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBTECH/Home

Ron Wheeler
On 09/08/2014 6:12 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
> That's great,
>
> Obviously you have both (Sharan an Ron) good writing skills and
> practice, so we can expect a better documentation :)
It is a volunteer job that has to have an appropriate priority.
It will take a lot of participation from the developers to let us know
what is accurate and where the documentation needs attention.
I can fix typos, grammar errors and convoluted phrasing but I can not
make up stuff.

There may also have to be new stuff written by the people who wrote the
code.


>
> I can help also, though being quite busy at the moment, I will
> certainly only lurk and jump in if necessary
>
> I have just a request: please keep the exchanges about documentation
> only in the user ML. Then everybody will follow and not need to
> duplicate in dev ML

NP. I just wanted to make sure that the development team is on-side with
this.

>
> Thanks!
>
> Jacques
>
> Le 09/08/2014 08:31, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
>> Thank you for the initiative!
>>
>> My only suggestion is to consider the idea of merging the content
>> from this Confluence space into the main Confluence space (wiki);
>> having one space to maintain will be easier.
>>
>> Jacopo
>>
>> On Aug 8, 2014, at 9:17 PM, Ron Wheeler
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> That would be great.
>>> Would anyone on the PMC object to us having a go at this?
>>>
>>> Does anyone have any strongly held beliefs about this section that
>>> they want to convey before we start?
>>>
>>> Ron
>>>
>>> On 08/08/2014 11:21 AM, Sharan-F wrote:
>>>> Hi Ron
>>>>
>>>> I'm not PMC but I'm interested in tidy up the OFBiz documentation
>>>> workspaces. I've checked and I do have edit access to the OFBTECH
>>>> workspace.
>>>>
>>>> Unless anyone else wants to step in - then I'm happy to work with
>>>> you on it.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>> Sharan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> View this message in context:
>>>> http://ofbiz.135035.n4.nabble.com/https-cwiki-apache-org-confluence-display-OFBTECH-Home-tp4653306p4653312.html
>>>> Sent from the OFBiz - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ron Wheeler
>>> President
>>> Artifact Software Inc
>>> email: [hidden email]
>>> skype: ronaldmwheeler
>>> phone: 866-970-2435, ext 102
>>>
>>
>>
>


--
Ron Wheeler
President
Artifact Software Inc
email: [hidden email]
skype: ronaldmwheeler
phone: 866-970-2435, ext 102

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Re: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBTECH/Home

Sharan-F
Hi Ron

Just thinking about how we can work together on this.

I think it might be good for us to get together offline to put together a plan for starting this update. We can then see what we can do and where we might need additional input. We could then post updates or request feedback / help etc using this thread.

What do you think?

Thanks
Sharan
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Re: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBTECH/Home

Jacques Le Roux
Administrator
In reply to this post by Ron Wheeler

Le 10/08/2014 05:54, Ron Wheeler a écrit :

> On 09/08/2014 6:12 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>> That's great,
>>
>> Obviously you have both (Sharan an Ron) good writing skills and practice, so we can expect a better documentation :)
> It is a volunteer job that has to have an appropriate priority.
> It will take a lot of participation from the developers to let us know what is accurate and where the documentation needs attention.
> I can fix typos, grammar errors and convoluted phrasing but I can not make up stuff.
>
> There may also have to be new stuff written by the people who wrote the code.
>
>
>>
>> I can help also, though being quite busy at the moment, I will certainly only lurk and jump in if necessary
>>
>> I have just a request: please keep the exchanges about documentation only in the user ML. Then everybody will follow and not need to duplicate in
>> dev ML
>
> NP. I just wanted to make sure that the development team is on-side with this.

I'm sure that all committers are also following the user ML

Jacques

>
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Jacques
>>
>> Le 09/08/2014 08:31, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
>>> Thank you for the initiative!
>>>
>>> My only suggestion is to consider the idea of merging the content from this Confluence space into the main Confluence space (wiki); having one
>>> space to maintain will be easier.
>>>
>>> Jacopo
>>>
>>> On Aug 8, 2014, at 9:17 PM, Ron Wheeler <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> That would be great.
>>>> Would anyone on the PMC object to us having a go at this?
>>>>
>>>> Does anyone have any strongly held beliefs about this section that they want to convey before we start?
>>>>
>>>> Ron
>>>>
>>>> On 08/08/2014 11:21 AM, Sharan-F wrote:
>>>>> Hi Ron
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not PMC but I'm interested in tidy up the OFBiz documentation
>>>>> workspaces. I've checked and I do have edit access to the OFBTECH workspace.
>>>>>
>>>>> Unless anyone else wants to step in - then I'm happy to work with you on it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>> Sharan
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> View this message in context: http://ofbiz.135035.n4.nabble.com/https-cwiki-apache-org-confluence-display-OFBTECH-Home-tp4653306p4653312.html
>>>>> Sent from the OFBiz - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Ron Wheeler
>>>> President
>>>> Artifact Software Inc
>>>> email: [hidden email]
>>>> skype: ronaldmwheeler
>>>> phone: 866-970-2435, ext 102
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
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Re: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBTECH/Home

Ron Wheeler
In reply to this post by Jacopo Cappellato-4
On 09/08/2014 2:31 AM, Jacopo Cappellato wrote:
> Thank you for the initiative!
>
> My only suggestion is to consider the idea of merging the content from this Confluence space into the main Confluence space (wiki); having one space to maintain will be easier.
In my view, getting rid of stuff that is not going to be maintained
would be a big help to new users.
It might also encourage others to participate in maintaining the docs.

Ron

> Jacopo
>
> On Aug 8, 2014, at 9:17 PM, Ron Wheeler <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> That would be great.
>> Would anyone on the PMC object to us having a go at this?
>>
>> Does anyone have any strongly held beliefs about this section that they want to convey before we start?
>>
>> Ron
>>
>> On 08/08/2014 11:21 AM, Sharan-F wrote:
>>> Hi Ron
>>>
>>> I'm not PMC but I'm interested in tidy up the OFBiz documentation
>>> workspaces. I've checked and I do have edit access to the OFBTECH workspace.
>>>
>>> Unless anyone else wants to step in - then I'm happy to work with you on it.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Sharan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> View this message in context: http://ofbiz.135035.n4.nabble.com/https-cwiki-apache-org-confluence-display-OFBTECH-Home-tp4653306p4653312.html
>>> Sent from the OFBiz - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Ron Wheeler
>> President
>> Artifact Software Inc
>> email: [hidden email]
>> skype: ronaldmwheeler
>> phone: 866-970-2435, ext 102
>>
>


--
Ron Wheeler
President
Artifact Software Inc
email: [hidden email]
skype: ronaldmwheeler
phone: 866-970-2435, ext 102

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Re: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBTECH/Home

Ron Wheeler
In reply to this post by Sharan-F
Yes.
If anyone wants to join this meeting, please indicate your timezone so
that we can schedule a time.
I am in Montreal which is Easter daylight Time (EST) at the moment.

Ron

On 10/08/2014 2:47 AM, Sharan-F wrote:

> Hi Ron
>
> Just thinking about how we can work together on this.
>
> I think it might be good for us to get together offline to put together a
> plan for starting this update. We can then see what we can do and where we
> might need additional input. We could then post updates or request feedback
> / help etc using this thread.
>
> What do you think?
>
> Thanks
> Sharan
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://ofbiz.135035.n4.nabble.com/https-cwiki-apache-org-confluence-display-OFBTECH-Home-tp4653306p4653354.html
> Sent from the OFBiz - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>


--
Ron Wheeler
President
Artifact Software Inc
email: [hidden email]
skype: ronaldmwheeler
phone: 866-970-2435, ext 102

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Re: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBTECH/Home

Sharan-F
Hi Ron

I'm in Prague and my timezone is Central European Time (CET) so I think you are 6 hours behind me.

I’m available this week on Wednesday 13th and Thursday 14th August from 3pm to 5pm (which I think should be 9am – 11am for you).

Will this work for you?

I’m on Skype too so we could do this as a Skype call/meeting.

Thanks
Sharan
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Re: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBTECH/Home

Jacopo Cappellato-4
In reply to this post by Ron Wheeler
On Aug 8, 2014, at 4:11 PM, Ron Wheeler <[hidden email]> wrote:

> 1) The order and organization of the documents does not seem to follow any logical pattern. Perhaps there should be some sections to help direct the reader a bit.

Based on past experience and the history of documentation in OFBiz, I would suggest that we do not try to add a hierarchy or structure to the documentation we have: every time we did an attempt to reorganize it we ended up with more confusion.
I would suggest instead that we start focusing on individual documents, tag them, review and maintain them and promote them (with votes/likes). Similar to the way that gmail manages emails, or Wikipedia stores content.
Then we should focus on improving the search capabilities of the tools we offer.

Jacopo
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Re: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBTECH/Home

Jacques Le Roux
Administrator
In reply to this post by Ron Wheeler
Le 10/08/2014 17:36, Ron Wheeler a écrit :
> In my view, getting rid of stuff that is not going to be maintained would be a big help to new users.
> It might also encourage others to participate in maintaining the docs.
>

It's hard to decide in advance if a stuff will or will not be maintained. On the other hand there are plenty of stuff witch are deprecated, wrong,
void (some place holder pages which has never been completed, easy to guess with creation dates), etc.

So before taking hard decisions we should before take easy actions by removing such dust. Like you would 1st remove big files when looking for place
on a disk...

Jacques
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Re: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBTECH/Home

Ron Wheeler
In reply to this post by Sharan-F
Both days are ok for me.
I am also on Skype and can arrange a meeting with Saba Meeting if we
want to share screens.

Anyone else want to join us?

Ron

On 11/08/2014 4:11 AM, Sharan-F wrote:

> Hi Ron
>
> I'm in Prague and my timezone is Central European Time (CET) so I think you
> are 6 hours behind me.
>
> I’m available this week on Wednesday 13th and Thursday 14th August from 3pm
> to 5pm (which I think should be 9am – 11am for you).
>
> Will this work for you?
>
> I’m on Skype too so we could do this as a Skype call/meeting.
>
> Thanks
> Sharan
>
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://ofbiz.135035.n4.nabble.com/https-cwiki-apache-org-confluence-display-OFBTECH-Home-tp4653306p4653377.html
> Sent from the OFBiz - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>


--
Ron Wheeler
President
Artifact Software Inc
email: [hidden email]
skype: ronaldmwheeler
phone: 866-970-2435, ext 102

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Re: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBTECH/Home

Sharan-F
Hi Ron

OK it looks like it's just us. Let's go for Wednesday 13th at 3pm CET (so should be 9am for you) and if we need more time we can use the Thursday too.

Thanks
Sharan
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Re: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBTECH/Home

Ron Wheeler
Sounds good
I guess that we can use Skype and share screens.
If more want to join, we will switch to a collaboration tool.

Ron
On 12/08/2014 2:40 AM, Sharan-F wrote:

> Hi Ron
>
> OK it looks like it's just us. Let's go for Wednesday 13th at 3pm CET (so
> should be 9am for you) and if we need more time we can use the Thursday too.
>
> Thanks
> Sharan
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://ofbiz.135035.n4.nabble.com/https-cwiki-apache-org-confluence-display-OFBTECH-Home-tp4653306p4653406.html
> Sent from the OFBiz - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>


--
Ron Wheeler
President
Artifact Software Inc
email: [hidden email]
skype: ronaldmwheeler
phone: 866-970-2435, ext 102

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Re: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBTECH/Home

Sharan-F
In reply to this post by Ron Wheeler
Hi All

Ron and I had a call yesterday to discuss our approach and have agreed the following:

• To start creating some new (orphan) pages on the Public Wiki that will be used to hold and link to the reviewed or updated content
• To create an Archive page to move documents to that have been removed from the OFBTECH
• We will also start looking at labels for the content so that it will make classification and searching easier

Potential archive documents will be ones that are old, no longer relevant, or unmaintained eg. we have seen that some pages were used for specifying tasks for tidying up OFBiz and are now complete.
Any pages / documents that are moved to archive will be available for review and it can be decided if things need to be updated, removed or just left in archive.

We also saw that there is some duplication of information across the Wiki and the general OFBiz CMS site so will look at a proposal to see how the text can be tidied up / re-written using clearer language and formatting.

I'll also use the same approach for the End User Documentation.

As we work through I will post any updates to this thread.

Thanks
Sharan
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Re: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBTECH/Home

Sharan-F
Hi All

This is a quick update on this thread.

Current Status and What has been done so far


• We have created a Proposed Archive page on the Wiki and have moved some documents to it
• We have created a proposed list of labels to use for the technical documentation and will post a message with the details asking for feedback
• Christian G has started helping us review the Component Set and Component Set Dependencies document (Thank you very much Christian!)
• Ron is currently working through updating the English and grammar in the OFBiz Tutorial – A Beginners Guide
• I’ve also started putting together some ideas around the End User Documentation review and update

Next Steps


More Community Help to Review Technical Documents

We need more help from the community for the technical review. We think that because there are so many documents it may be stopping people offering to do the technical review. To try and make the review easier we will start asking for feedback on individual documents.

Removal of Old Comments

There are a lot of old comments attached to some of the pages and we’d like to clean these up to only the ones that are still relevant. We will send emails telling people that comments before a specific date (e.g. over the last 12 months) will be removed and if they are still relevant a new comment needs to be created to reflect it.

Project Branding Guidelines and Consistency

We looked at the Apache Project Branding Guidelines especially around Project Naming and Descriptions. We found that that a lot of the documentation (technical and end user) doesn’t conform to the guidelines around consistency of naming (i.e Apache OFBiz) so this will form part of the tidy up.

We also found that the OFBiz main home page doesn’t conform to the guidelines as it refers to the Apache OFBiz  software product as a ‘project’.  There is some additional tidying up we would like to do on this so we will work on  proposing some new wording based on the guidelines and then ask the community for feedback.

Community Survey

We discussed using a tool like Survey Monkey to put together a short survey to gather some quick information about the community and how they use the existing documentation.

We will continue to work on this so watch out for the mailing postings around each of our next steps.

Thanks
Sharan