proposal: ESME

[Manuel Desdin]

Well, we should include the integration part only, then this is a big  
beast anyway and should go on its own!

On 13 Dec 2009, at 10:34, Jacques Le Roux wrote:

> Mmm, thought after: we have a lesser but still a problem with LGPL  
> (see OPTIONAL_LIBRARIES)
>
> Jacques
>
> From: "Jacques Le Roux" <[hidden email]>
>> Thanks Manuel,
>> I have no time for it but I have a friend who is working in telco  
>> and 2 or 3 years played with Asterisks in OFBiz.
>> I guess it will be great to have a call feature from OFBiz.
>> We have also a requirement from this issue https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-2371 
>>  (see inside the PDF)
>> I will see if my firend is still interested...
>> Jacques
>> From: "Manuel Desdin" <[hidden email]>
>>> SIPfoundry sipXecs is LGPL, i know it is only compatible in  
>>> binary  form, but still. it is user friendly, based on java. in  
>>> their next  version they are integrating openfire, a jabber/XMPP  
>>> server based on  java, and dimdim, web conferencing. both are GPL,  
>>> but we do not need  to distribute them...
>>> anyone interested?
>>> manuel.
>>> On 13 Dec 2009, at 01:27, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>> From: "David E Jones" <[hidden email]>
>>>>> On Dec 12, 2009, at 5:40 PM, Adam Heath wrote:
>>>>>> Hans Bakker wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sat, 2009-12-12 at 13:59 +0100, Jeroen van der Wal wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi Hans,
>>>>>>>> I understand what it can do. Can you tell me why this  
>>>>>>>> feature  should
>>>>>>>> be integrated into Ofbiz?
>>>>>>> Then we are getting into the discussion if ESME is useful or  
>>>>>>> not.  That
>>>>>>> is why i copied the first page in a previous message. Please  
>>>>>>> check
>>>>>>> earlier messages where i understood that in general the  
>>>>>>> community  agreed
>>>>>>> it was useful.
>>>>>>> This proposal is not that IF we should use ESME but only how....
>>>>>> It is first if we can, then it is how.  Things that go into ofbiz
>>>>>> trunk must be useful for everyone, and you need to explain why  
>>>>>> this
>>>>>> would be useful, and in which situations.
>>>>> That's silly, being useful for "everyone" has never been a  
>>>>> requirement for a contribution...
>>>>> If Hans likes it enough to work on it, I see no reason for  
>>>>> anyone  to give him a hard time for it.
>>>>> -David
>>>>
>>>> Yes, I don't see why this should be a requirement for a new  
>>>> feature.
>>>> BTW it's a pity there is no PABX like Asterisks, but with an  
>>>> usable  licence for us
>>>>
>>>> Jacques
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

[Erwan de FERRIERES-3]

Le 13/12/2009 01:27, Jacques Le Roux a écrit :
../..
>
> Yes, I don't see why this should be a requirement for a new feature.
> BTW it's a pity there is no PABX like Asterisks, but with an usable
> licence for us
Asterisk-java is under an Apache2 licence, but I haven't looked at all
the files included.

http://asterisk-java.org/development/index.html

>
> Jacques
>
>
>
>
>

--
Erwan de FERRIERES
www.nereide.biz

[Jacques Le Roux]

Thanks Erwan,

I will have a look

Jacques

From: "Erwan de FERRIERES" <[hidden email]>

> Le 13/12/2009 01:27, Jacques Le Roux a écrit :
> ../..
>>
>> Yes, I don't see why this should be a requirement for a new feature.
>> BTW it's a pity there is no PABX like Asterisks, but with an usable
>> licence for us
> Asterisk-java is under an Apache2 licence, but I haven't looked at all the files included.
>
> http://asterisk-java.org/development/index.html
>
>>
>> Jacques
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Erwan de FERRIERES
> www.nereide.biz
>

[Jacques Le Roux]

Indeed http://www.adempiere.com/index.php/AsteriskJava

Jacques

From: "Jacques Le Roux" <[hidden email]>

> Thanks Erwan,
>
> I will have a look
>
> Jacques
>
> From: "Erwan de FERRIERES" <[hidden email]>
>> Le 13/12/2009 01:27, Jacques Le Roux a écrit :
>> ../..
>>>
>>> Yes, I don't see why this should be a requirement for a new feature.
>>> BTW it's a pity there is no PABX like Asterisks, but with an usable
>>> licence for us
>> Asterisk-java is under an Apache2 licence, but I haven't looked at all the files included.
>>
>> http://asterisk-java.org/development/index.html
>>
>>>
>>> Jacques
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Erwan de FERRIERES
>> www.nereide.biz
>>
>
>

[Michael Xu (xudong)]

hi Hans,

Some customers here are asking for this feature. So it is really great to
see your proposal.

Just one idea for your consideration: it would be great if ESME could happen
in transaction level to support business collaboration. For example, buyer
and supplier can communicate for a specific order, invoice or agreement by
using ESME; project owner, approver, task owner can communicate for a
specific task in ProjectMgr, etc. And all those messages then can be
monitored or tracked.

--
Regards,
Michael Xu (xudong)
www.wizitsoft.com | Office: (8610) 6267 0615 ext 806 | Mobile: [phone]
9807 | Fax: [phone]


On Sun, Dec 13, 2009 at 10:04 AM, Hans Bakker <[hidden email]
> wrote:

> Some users are wondering if ESME is useful to add to OFBiz or not,
> therefore some promotion why I think it is interesting and yes I have
> business cases for it:
>
> 1. It started with a request of our customers to have a chat possibility
> in e-commerce for new users to ask questions via chat. I looked at 2
> chat open source frameworks. Then ESME was proposed here in the mailing
> list. My opinion is that if ESME can do chat too, then better go for
> ESME so we have also twitter functions. (as Tim also stated)
>
> 2. ESME allows to use the twitter principle in a protected business
> environment: developers/marketeers exchanging ideas, announcing news and
> problems. (yes you should use OFBiz in your company to see these
> benefits)
> If you are still not convinced of twitter in a business environment: get
> a twitter account and follow me: @hansbak i will keep you informed about
> ESME within OFBiz and you will have the opportunity for point 3 as a
> bonus.
>
> 3. ESME was actually born in the SAP environment and many people from
> this environment now getting exposed to OFBiz because we are looking at
> ESME too and the ESME people "retweet" my ESME experiences to their
> network of twitter accounts.
>
> I was not convinced about this twitter stuff but using this for my ESME
> investigations has shown me that it is actually pretty exiting getting
> to know so much new people in such a short time.
>
> David thanks for the support because it looks like that the OFBiz
> community has a problem accepting new functions like this one, even if
> it does not affect their usage of OFBiz. So please people, not too
> conservative and always be open to new developments!
>
> Regards,
> Hans
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, 2009-12-12 at 16:30 +0700, Hans Bakker wrote:
> > Proposal:
> >
> > We are looking to copy an ESME server within OFBiz as a component to
> > allow for twitter like messaging within the OFBiz environment.
> >
> > users coming on the ecommerce site can 'twitter' a message which is
> > monitored by the system admin, who can answer the questions.
> >
> > Logged in users can follow other registered users and can twitter what
> > they are doing...
> >
> > more info at
> > http://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/ESME/Collaboration+with+OFbiz
> >
> > any thoughts?
> >
> > regards,
> > Hans (@hansbak)
> >
> --
> Antwebsystems.com: Quality OFBiz services for competitive rates
>
>

[Adrian Crum]

I believe any integration with existing chat/twitter-like services would
be useful.

 From my perspective, it would be best to build into OFBiz a gateway to
these external services. In other words, take the same approach we use
with external payment processors. I believe that would be less
complicated and more flexible than integrating a specific service into
OFBiz.

-Adrian


Hans Bakker wrote:

> Some users are wondering if ESME is useful to add to OFBiz or not,
> therefore some promotion why I think it is interesting and yes I have
> business cases for it:
>
> 1. It started with a request of our customers to have a chat possibility
> in e-commerce for new users to ask questions via chat. I looked at 2
> chat open source frameworks. Then ESME was proposed here in the mailing
> list. My opinion is that if ESME can do chat too, then better go for
> ESME so we have also twitter functions. (as Tim also stated)
>
> 2. ESME allows to use the twitter principle in a protected business
> environment: developers/marketeers exchanging ideas, announcing news and
> problems. (yes you should use OFBiz in your company to see these
> benefits)
> If you are still not convinced of twitter in a business environment: get
> a twitter account and follow me: @hansbak i will keep you informed about
> ESME within OFBiz and you will have the opportunity for point 3 as a
> bonus.
>
> 3. ESME was actually born in the SAP environment and many people from
> this environment now getting exposed to OFBiz because we are looking at
> ESME too and the ESME people "retweet" my ESME experiences to their
> network of twitter accounts.
>
> I was not convinced about this twitter stuff but using this for my ESME
> investigations has shown me that it is actually pretty exiting getting
> to know so much new people in such a short time.
>
> David thanks for the support because it looks like that the OFBiz
> community has a problem accepting new functions like this one, even if
> it does not affect their usage of OFBiz. So please people, not too
> conservative and always be open to new developments!
>
> Regards,
> Hans
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, 2009-12-12 at 16:30 +0700, Hans Bakker wrote:
>> Proposal:
>>
>> We are looking to copy an ESME server within OFBiz as a component to
>> allow for twitter like messaging within the OFBiz environment.
>>
>> users coming on the ecommerce site can 'twitter' a message which is
>> monitored by the system admin, who can answer the questions.
>>
>> Logged in users can follow other registered users and can twitter what
>> they are doing...
>>
>> more info at
>> http://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/ESME/Collaboration+with+OFbiz
>>
>> any thoughts?
>>
>> regards,
>> Hans (@hansbak)
>>

[Jacques Le Roux]

Yes, this may quickly change and it will be easier to adapt

Jacques

From: "Adrian Crum" <[hidden email]>

>I believe any integration with existing chat/twitter-like services would
> be useful.
>
> From my perspective, it would be best to build into OFBiz a gateway to
> these external services. In other words, take the same approach we use
> with external payment processors. I believe that would be less
> complicated and more flexible than integrating a specific service into
> OFBiz.
>
> -Adrian
>
>
> Hans Bakker wrote:
>> Some users are wondering if ESME is useful to add to OFBiz or not,
>> therefore some promotion why I think it is interesting and yes I have
>> business cases for it:
>>
>> 1. It started with a request of our customers to have a chat possibility
>> in e-commerce for new users to ask questions via chat. I looked at 2
>> chat open source frameworks. Then ESME was proposed here in the mailing
>> list. My opinion is that if ESME can do chat too, then better go for
>> ESME so we have also twitter functions. (as Tim also stated)
>>
>> 2. ESME allows to use the twitter principle in a protected business
>> environment: developers/marketeers exchanging ideas, announcing news and
>> problems. (yes you should use OFBiz in your company to see these
>> benefits)
>> If you are still not convinced of twitter in a business environment: get
>> a twitter account and follow me: @hansbak i will keep you informed about
>> ESME within OFBiz and you will have the opportunity for point 3 as a
>> bonus.
>>
>> 3. ESME was actually born in the SAP environment and many people from
>> this environment now getting exposed to OFBiz because we are looking at
>> ESME too and the ESME people "retweet" my ESME experiences to their
>> network of twitter accounts.
>>
>> I was not convinced about this twitter stuff but using this for my ESME
>> investigations has shown me that it is actually pretty exiting getting
>> to know so much new people in such a short time.
>>
>> David thanks for the support because it looks like that the OFBiz
>> community has a problem accepting new functions like this one, even if
>> it does not affect their usage of OFBiz. So please people, not too
>> conservative and always be open to new developments!
>>
>> Regards,
>> Hans
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, 2009-12-12 at 16:30 +0700, Hans Bakker wrote:
>>> Proposal:
>>>
>>> We are looking to copy an ESME server within OFBiz as a component to
>>> allow for twitter like messaging within the OFBiz environment.
>>>
>>> users coming on the ecommerce site can 'twitter' a message which is
>>> monitored by the system admin, who can answer the questions.
>>>
>>> Logged in users can follow other registered users and can twitter what
>>> they are doing...
>>>
>>> more info at
>>> http://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/ESME/Collaboration+with+OFbiz
>>>
>>> any thoughts?
>>>
>>> regards,
>>> Hans (@hansbak)
>>>
>

[Scott Gray-2]

+1

Regards
Scott

On 15/12/2009, at 4:48 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:

> I believe any integration with existing chat/twitter-like services  
> would be useful.
>
> From my perspective, it would be best to build into OFBiz a gateway  
> to these external services. In other words, take the same approach  
> we use with external payment processors. I believe that would be  
> less complicated and more flexible than integrating a specific  
> service into OFBiz.
>
> -Adrian
>
>
> Hans Bakker wrote:
>> Some users are wondering if ESME is useful to add to OFBiz or not,
>> therefore some promotion why I think it is interesting and yes I have
>> business cases for it:
>> 1. It started with a request of our customers to have a chat  
>> possibility
>> in e-commerce for new users to ask questions via chat. I looked at 2
>> chat open source frameworks. Then ESME was proposed here in the  
>> mailing
>> list. My opinion is that if ESME can do chat too, then better go for
>> ESME so we have also twitter functions. (as Tim also stated)
>> 2. ESME allows to use the twitter principle in a protected business
>> environment: developers/marketeers exchanging ideas, announcing  
>> news and
>> problems. (yes you should use OFBiz in your company to see these
>> benefits)
>> If you are still not convinced of twitter in a business  
>> environment: get
>> a twitter account and follow me: @hansbak i will keep you informed  
>> about
>> ESME within OFBiz and you will have the opportunity for point 3 as a
>> bonus.
>> 3. ESME was actually born in the SAP environment and many people from
>> this environment now getting exposed to OFBiz because we are  
>> looking at
>> ESME too and the ESME people "retweet" my ESME experiences to their
>> network of twitter accounts.
>> I was not convinced about this twitter stuff but using this for my  
>> ESME
>> investigations has shown me that it is actually pretty exiting  
>> getting
>> to know so much new people in such a short time.
>> David thanks for the support because it looks like that the OFBiz
>> community has a problem accepting new functions like this one, even  
>> if
>> it does not affect their usage of OFBiz. So please people, not too
>> conservative and always be open to new developments!
>> Regards,
>> Hans
>> On Sat, 2009-12-12 at 16:30 +0700, Hans Bakker wrote:
>>> Proposal:
>>>
>>> We are looking to copy an ESME server within OFBiz as a component to
>>> allow for twitter like messaging within the OFBiz environment.
>>>
>>> users coming on the ecommerce site can 'twitter' a message which is
>>> monitored by the system admin, who can answer the questions.
>>>
>>> Logged in users can follow other registered users and can twitter  
>>> what
>>> they are doing...
>>>
>>> more info at
>>> http://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/ESME/Collaboration+with+OFbiz
>>>
>>> any thoughts?
>>>
>>> regards,
>>> Hans (@hansbak)
>>>

[Tim Ruppert]

+1

Cheers,
Ruppert
--
Tim Ruppert
HotWax Media
http://www.hotwaxmedia.com

o:801.649.6594
f:801.649.6595

On Dec 14, 2009, at 12:51 PM, Scott Gray wrote:

> +1
>
> Regards
> Scott
>
> On 15/12/2009, at 4:48 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>
>> I believe any integration with existing chat/twitter-like services would be useful.
>>
>> From my perspective, it would be best to build into OFBiz a gateway to these external services. In other words, take the same approach we use with external payment processors. I believe that would be less complicated and more flexible than integrating a specific service into OFBiz.
>>
>> -Adrian
>>
>>
>> Hans Bakker wrote:
>>> Some users are wondering if ESME is useful to add to OFBiz or not,
>>> therefore some promotion why I think it is interesting and yes I have
>>> business cases for it:
>>> 1. It started with a request of our customers to have a chat possibility
>>> in e-commerce for new users to ask questions via chat. I looked at 2
>>> chat open source frameworks. Then ESME was proposed here in the mailing
>>> list. My opinion is that if ESME can do chat too, then better go for
>>> ESME so we have also twitter functions. (as Tim also stated)
>>> 2. ESME allows to use the twitter principle in a protected business
>>> environment: developers/marketeers exchanging ideas, announcing news and
>>> problems. (yes you should use OFBiz in your company to see these
>>> benefits)
>>> If you are still not convinced of twitter in a business environment: get
>>> a twitter account and follow me: @hansbak i will keep you informed about
>>> ESME within OFBiz and you will have the opportunity for point 3 as a
>>> bonus.
>>> 3. ESME was actually born in the SAP environment and many people from
>>> this environment now getting exposed to OFBiz because we are looking at
>>> ESME too and the ESME people "retweet" my ESME experiences to their
>>> network of twitter accounts.
>>> I was not convinced about this twitter stuff but using this for my ESME
>>> investigations has shown me that it is actually pretty exiting getting
>>> to know so much new people in such a short time.
>>> David thanks for the support because it looks like that the OFBiz
>>> community has a problem accepting new functions like this one, even if
>>> it does not affect their usage of OFBiz. So please people, not too
>>> conservative and always be open to new developments!
>>> Regards,
>>> Hans
>>> On Sat, 2009-12-12 at 16:30 +0700, Hans Bakker wrote:
>>>> Proposal:
>>>>
>>>> We are looking to copy an ESME server within OFBiz as a component to
>>>> allow for twitter like messaging within the OFBiz environment.
>>>>
>>>> users coming on the ecommerce site can 'twitter' a message which is
>>>> monitored by the system admin, who can answer the questions.
>>>>
>>>> Logged in users can follow other registered users and can twitter what
>>>> they are doing...
>>>>
>>>> more info at
>>>> http://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/ESME/Collaboration+with+OFbiz
>>>>
>>>> any thoughts?
>>>>
>>>> regards,
>>>> Hans (@hansbak)
>>>>
>

[hans_bakker]

Hi everybody who commented.

The approach that Adrian has below and is supported by others in the
community was also our first and seems the easiest from an
implementation point of view.

After some investigation however we consider ESME not only an add-on but
an essential part of OFBiz which should be automatically installed when
OFBiz is installed.

That means:
1. everybody who is registered in OFBiz is automatically using ESME.
2. everybody will follow the system messages from the system
administrator which is currently done in the system info notes
(commonext component), ESME will replace it.

The proposal:
1. We should install ESME as a 'normal' OFBiz component in the
application- or even framework folder because it will be a mandatory
part of the system.
2. ESME authentication will be disabled and should, as a normal ofbiz
component, use the framework authentication.
3. ESME runs happily under Tomcat and is using the Java runtime.
4. ESME has the Apache 2 license, so no problems here too.

Further plans:
We almost upgraded to Axis2 in the framework and let OFBiz installations
exchange ESME messages via webservices.

Regards,
Hans.


On Mon, 2009-12-14 at 07:48 -0800, Adrian Crum wrote:

> I believe any integration with existing chat/twitter-like services would
> be useful.
>
>  From my perspective, it would be best to build into OFBiz a gateway to
> these external services. In other words, take the same approach we use
> with external payment processors. I believe that would be less
> complicated and more flexible than integrating a specific service into
> OFBiz.
>
> -Adrian
>
>
> Hans Bakker wrote:
> > Some users are wondering if ESME is useful to add to OFBiz or not,
> > therefore some promotion why I think it is interesting and yes I have
> > business cases for it:
> >
> > 1. It started with a request of our customers to have a chat possibility
> > in e-commerce for new users to ask questions via chat. I looked at 2
> > chat open source frameworks. Then ESME was proposed here in the mailing
> > list. My opinion is that if ESME can do chat too, then better go for
> > ESME so we have also twitter functions. (as Tim also stated)
> >
> > 2. ESME allows to use the twitter principle in a protected business
> > environment: developers/marketeers exchanging ideas, announcing news and
> > problems. (yes you should use OFBiz in your company to see these
> > benefits)
> > If you are still not convinced of twitter in a business environment: get
> > a twitter account and follow me: @hansbak i will keep you informed about
> > ESME within OFBiz and you will have the opportunity for point 3 as a
> > bonus.
> >
> > 3. ESME was actually born in the SAP environment and many people from
> > this environment now getting exposed to OFBiz because we are looking at
> > ESME too and the ESME people "retweet" my ESME experiences to their
> > network of twitter accounts.
> >
> > I was not convinced about this twitter stuff but using this for my ESME
> > investigations has shown me that it is actually pretty exiting getting
> > to know so much new people in such a short time.
> >
> > David thanks for the support because it looks like that the OFBiz
> > community has a problem accepting new functions like this one, even if
> > it does not affect their usage of OFBiz. So please people, not too
> > conservative and always be open to new developments!
> >
> > Regards,
> > Hans
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, 2009-12-12 at 16:30 +0700, Hans Bakker wrote:
> >> Proposal:
> >>
> >> We are looking to copy an ESME server within OFBiz as a component to
> >> allow for twitter like messaging within the OFBiz environment.
> >>
> >> users coming on the ecommerce site can 'twitter' a message which is
> >> monitored by the system admin, who can answer the questions.
> >>
> >> Logged in users can follow other registered users and can twitter what
> >> they are doing...
> >>
> >> more info at
> >> http://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/ESME/Collaboration+with+OFbiz
> >>
> >> any thoughts?
> >>
> >> regards,
> >> Hans (@hansbak)
> >>

--
Antwebsystems.com: Quality OFBiz services for competitive rates

[Jacques Le Roux]

Sounds like a plan but then we will get tied to ESME, maybe not so bad.
So no real opininon, though replacing the system info notes (wich is really a good idea) needs maybe something more rooted in OFBiz.

Jacques

From: "Hans Bakker" <[hidden email]>

> Hi everybody who commented.
>
> The approach that Adrian has below and is supported by others in the
> community was also our first and seems the easiest from an
> implementation point of view.
>
> After some investigation however we consider ESME not only an add-on but
> an essential part of OFBiz which should be automatically installed when
> OFBiz is installed.
>
> That means:
> 1. everybody who is registered in OFBiz is automatically using ESME.
> 2. everybody will follow the system messages from the system
> administrator which is currently done in the system info notes
> (commonext component), ESME will replace it.
>
> The proposal:
> 1. We should install ESME as a 'normal' OFBiz component in the
> application- or even framework folder because it will be a mandatory
> part of the system.
> 2. ESME authentication will be disabled and should, as a normal ofbiz
> component, use the framework authentication.
> 3. ESME runs happily under Tomcat and is using the Java runtime.
> 4. ESME has the Apache 2 license, so no problems here too.
>
> Further plans:
> We almost upgraded to Axis2 in the framework and let OFBiz installations
> exchange ESME messages via webservices.
>
> Regards,
> Hans.
>
>
> On Mon, 2009-12-14 at 07:48 -0800, Adrian Crum wrote:
>> I believe any integration with existing chat/twitter-like services would
>> be useful.
>>
>>  From my perspective, it would be best to build into OFBiz a gateway to
>> these external services. In other words, take the same approach we use
>> with external payment processors. I believe that would be less
>> complicated and more flexible than integrating a specific service into
>> OFBiz.
>>
>> -Adrian
>>
>>
>> Hans Bakker wrote:
>> > Some users are wondering if ESME is useful to add to OFBiz or not,
>> > therefore some promotion why I think it is interesting and yes I have
>> > business cases for it:
>> >
>> > 1. It started with a request of our customers to have a chat possibility
>> > in e-commerce for new users to ask questions via chat. I looked at 2
>> > chat open source frameworks. Then ESME was proposed here in the mailing
>> > list. My opinion is that if ESME can do chat too, then better go for
>> > ESME so we have also twitter functions. (as Tim also stated)
>> >
>> > 2. ESME allows to use the twitter principle in a protected business
>> > environment: developers/marketeers exchanging ideas, announcing news and
>> > problems. (yes you should use OFBiz in your company to see these
>> > benefits)
>> > If you are still not convinced of twitter in a business environment: get
>> > a twitter account and follow me: @hansbak i will keep you informed about
>> > ESME within OFBiz and you will have the opportunity for point 3 as a
>> > bonus.
>> >
>> > 3. ESME was actually born in the SAP environment and many people from
>> > this environment now getting exposed to OFBiz because we are looking at
>> > ESME too and the ESME people "retweet" my ESME experiences to their
>> > network of twitter accounts.
>> >
>> > I was not convinced about this twitter stuff but using this for my ESME
>> > investigations has shown me that it is actually pretty exiting getting
>> > to know so much new people in such a short time.
>> >
>> > David thanks for the support because it looks like that the OFBiz
>> > community has a problem accepting new functions like this one, even if
>> > it does not affect their usage of OFBiz. So please people, not too
>> > conservative and always be open to new developments!
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > Hans
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sat, 2009-12-12 at 16:30 +0700, Hans Bakker wrote:
>> >> Proposal:
>> >>
>> >> We are looking to copy an ESME server within OFBiz as a component to
>> >> allow for twitter like messaging within the OFBiz environment.
>> >>
>> >> users coming on the ecommerce site can 'twitter' a message which is
>> >> monitored by the system admin, who can answer the questions.
>> >>
>> >> Logged in users can follow other registered users and can twitter what
>> >> they are doing...
>> >>
>> >> more info at
>> >> http://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/ESME/Collaboration+with+OFbiz
>> >>
>> >> any thoughts?
>> >>
>> >> regards,
>> >> Hans (@hansbak)
>> >>
> --
> Antwebsystems.com: Quality OFBiz services for competitive rates
>

[Adrian Crum]

In other words, "Thank you for your suggestions, but I'm going to ignore
them."

Saying ESME is an essential part of OFBiz is like saying Apache James is
an essential part of OFBiz - so we can send emails from OFBiz.

No, we don't need to install ESME - just create a gateway to it. The
integration Wiki page
(http://incubator.apache.org/esme/collaboration-with-ofbiz.html) already
suggests something like that.

-Adrian


Hans Bakker wrote:

> Hi everybody who commented.
>
> The approach that Adrian has below and is supported by others in the
> community was also our first and seems the easiest from an
> implementation point of view.
>
> After some investigation however we consider ESME not only an add-on but
> an essential part of OFBiz which should be automatically installed when
> OFBiz is installed.
>
> That means:
> 1. everybody who is registered in OFBiz is automatically using ESME.
> 2. everybody will follow the system messages from the system
> administrator which is currently done in the system info notes
> (commonext component), ESME will replace it.
>
> The proposal:
> 1. We should install ESME as a 'normal' OFBiz component in the
> application- or even framework folder because it will be a mandatory
> part of the system.
> 2. ESME authentication will be disabled and should, as a normal ofbiz
> component, use the framework authentication.
> 3. ESME runs happily under Tomcat and is using the Java runtime.
> 4. ESME has the Apache 2 license, so no problems here too.
>
> Further plans:
> We almost upgraded to Axis2 in the framework and let OFBiz installations
> exchange ESME messages via webservices.
>
> Regards,
> Hans.
>
>
> On Mon, 2009-12-14 at 07:48 -0800, Adrian Crum wrote:
>> I believe any integration with existing chat/twitter-like services would
>> be useful.
>>
>>  From my perspective, it would be best to build into OFBiz a gateway to
>> these external services. In other words, take the same approach we use
>> with external payment processors. I believe that would be less
>> complicated and more flexible than integrating a specific service into
>> OFBiz.
>>
>> -Adrian
>>
>>
>> Hans Bakker wrote:
>>> Some users are wondering if ESME is useful to add to OFBiz or not,
>>> therefore some promotion why I think it is interesting and yes I have
>>> business cases for it:
>>>
>>> 1. It started with a request of our customers to have a chat possibility
>>> in e-commerce for new users to ask questions via chat. I looked at 2
>>> chat open source frameworks. Then ESME was proposed here in the mailing
>>> list. My opinion is that if ESME can do chat too, then better go for
>>> ESME so we have also twitter functions. (as Tim also stated)
>>>
>>> 2. ESME allows to use the twitter principle in a protected business
>>> environment: developers/marketeers exchanging ideas, announcing news and
>>> problems. (yes you should use OFBiz in your company to see these
>>> benefits)
>>> If you are still not convinced of twitter in a business environment: get
>>> a twitter account and follow me: @hansbak i will keep you informed about
>>> ESME within OFBiz and you will have the opportunity for point 3 as a
>>> bonus.
>>>
>>> 3. ESME was actually born in the SAP environment and many people from
>>> this environment now getting exposed to OFBiz because we are looking at
>>> ESME too and the ESME people "retweet" my ESME experiences to their
>>> network of twitter accounts.
>>>
>>> I was not convinced about this twitter stuff but using this for my ESME
>>> investigations has shown me that it is actually pretty exiting getting
>>> to know so much new people in such a short time.
>>>
>>> David thanks for the support because it looks like that the OFBiz
>>> community has a problem accepting new functions like this one, even if
>>> it does not affect their usage of OFBiz. So please people, not too
>>> conservative and always be open to new developments!
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Hans
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, 2009-12-12 at 16:30 +0700, Hans Bakker wrote:
>>>> Proposal:
>>>>
>>>> We are looking to copy an ESME server within OFBiz as a component to
>>>> allow for twitter like messaging within the OFBiz environment.
>>>>
>>>> users coming on the ecommerce site can 'twitter' a message which is
>>>> monitored by the system admin, who can answer the questions.
>>>>
>>>> Logged in users can follow other registered users and can twitter what
>>>> they are doing...
>>>>
>>>> more info at
>>>> http://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/ESME/Collaboration+with+OFbiz
>>>>
>>>> any thoughts?
>>>>
>>>> regards,
>>>> Hans (@hansbak)
>>>>

[hans_bakker]

we are still investigating how to interface but yes an inclusion of a
full system as a component seems the best way to us if only for the ease
of installation and the convenient license.

looking more into skala ..... an possible upgrade to groovy and java
being compatible with our current runtime environment (JVM/Tomcat)

On Tue, 2009-12-15 at 08:58 -0800, Adrian Crum wrote:

> In other words, "Thank you for your suggestions, but I'm going to ignore
> them."
>
> Saying ESME is an essential part of OFBiz is like saying Apache James is
> an essential part of OFBiz - so we can send emails from OFBiz.
>
> No, we don't need to install ESME - just create a gateway to it. The
> integration Wiki page
> (http://incubator.apache.org/esme/collaboration-with-ofbiz.html) already
> suggests something like that.
>
> -Adrian
>
>
> Hans Bakker wrote:
> > Hi everybody who commented.
> >
> > The approach that Adrian has below and is supported by others in the
> > community was also our first and seems the easiest from an
> > implementation point of view.
> >
> > After some investigation however we consider ESME not only an add-on but
> > an essential part of OFBiz which should be automatically installed when
> > OFBiz is installed.
> >
> > That means:
> > 1. everybody who is registered in OFBiz is automatically using ESME.
> > 2. everybody will follow the system messages from the system
> > administrator which is currently done in the system info notes
> > (commonext component), ESME will replace it.
> >
> > The proposal:
> > 1. We should install ESME as a 'normal' OFBiz component in the
> > application- or even framework folder because it will be a mandatory
> > part of the system.
> > 2. ESME authentication will be disabled and should, as a normal ofbiz
> > component, use the framework authentication.
> > 3. ESME runs happily under Tomcat and is using the Java runtime.
> > 4. ESME has the Apache 2 license, so no problems here too.
> >
> > Further plans:
> > We almost upgraded to Axis2 in the framework and let OFBiz installations
> > exchange ESME messages via webservices.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Hans.
> >
> >
> > On Mon, 2009-12-14 at 07:48 -0800, Adrian Crum wrote:
> >> I believe any integration with existing chat/twitter-like services would
> >> be useful.
> >>
> >>  From my perspective, it would be best to build into OFBiz a gateway to
> >> these external services. In other words, take the same approach we use
> >> with external payment processors. I believe that would be less
> >> complicated and more flexible than integrating a specific service into
> >> OFBiz.
> >>
> >> -Adrian
> >>
> >>
> >> Hans Bakker wrote:
> >>> Some users are wondering if ESME is useful to add to OFBiz or not,
> >>> therefore some promotion why I think it is interesting and yes I have
> >>> business cases for it:
> >>>
> >>> 1. It started with a request of our customers to have a chat possibility
> >>> in e-commerce for new users to ask questions via chat. I looked at 2
> >>> chat open source frameworks. Then ESME was proposed here in the mailing
> >>> list. My opinion is that if ESME can do chat too, then better go for
> >>> ESME so we have also twitter functions. (as Tim also stated)
> >>>
> >>> 2. ESME allows to use the twitter principle in a protected business
> >>> environment: developers/marketeers exchanging ideas, announcing news and
> >>> problems. (yes you should use OFBiz in your company to see these
> >>> benefits)
> >>> If you are still not convinced of twitter in a business environment: get
> >>> a twitter account and follow me: @hansbak i will keep you informed about
> >>> ESME within OFBiz and you will have the opportunity for point 3 as a
> >>> bonus.
> >>>
> >>> 3. ESME was actually born in the SAP environment and many people from
> >>> this environment now getting exposed to OFBiz because we are looking at
> >>> ESME too and the ESME people "retweet" my ESME experiences to their
> >>> network of twitter accounts.
> >>>
> >>> I was not convinced about this twitter stuff but using this for my ESME
> >>> investigations has shown me that it is actually pretty exiting getting
> >>> to know so much new people in such a short time.
> >>>
> >>> David thanks for the support because it looks like that the OFBiz
> >>> community has a problem accepting new functions like this one, even if
> >>> it does not affect their usage of OFBiz. So please people, not too
> >>> conservative and always be open to new developments!
> >>>
> >>> Regards,
> >>> Hans
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Sat, 2009-12-12 at 16:30 +0700, Hans Bakker wrote:
> >>>> Proposal:
> >>>>
> >>>> We are looking to copy an ESME server within OFBiz as a component to
> >>>> allow for twitter like messaging within the OFBiz environment.
> >>>>
> >>>> users coming on the ecommerce site can 'twitter' a message which is
> >>>> monitored by the system admin, who can answer the questions.
> >>>>
> >>>> Logged in users can follow other registered users and can twitter what
> >>>> they are doing...
> >>>>
> >>>> more info at
> >>>> http://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/ESME/Collaboration+with+OFbiz
> >>>>
> >>>> any thoughts?
> >>>>
> >>>> regards,
> >>>> Hans (@hansbak)
> >>>>

--
Antwebsystems.com: Quality OFBiz services for competitive rates

[Scott Gray-2]

On 16/12/2009, at 12:30 PM, Hans Bakker wrote:

> looking more into skala ..... an possible upgrade to groovy and java
> being compatible with our current runtime environment (JVM/Tomcat)

Scala is very different from java or groovy language-wise, adding  
support for it would be fine but I don't think it's something I'd like  
to see used out of the box.  We have enough languages to deal with as  
it is.

[David E. Jones-2]

I agree it would be easier to include it, especially if it is going to be used for OOTB functionality (like system messages, customer support chat (sync or async), other things Hans mentioned before, etc).

It would be nice (maybe necessary?) to make sure that an external instance of ESME can be used. It's kind of like JMS (in fact, amazingly so...) and the approach with JMS was to use either something in-VM with OFBiz or something external.

-David


On Dec 15, 2009, at 5:30 PM, Hans Bakker wrote:

> we are still investigating how to interface but yes an inclusion of a
> full system as a component seems the best way to us if only for the ease
> of installation and the convenient license.
>
> looking more into skala ..... an possible upgrade to groovy and java
> being compatible with our current runtime environment (JVM/Tomcat)
>
> On Tue, 2009-12-15 at 08:58 -0800, Adrian Crum wrote:
>> In other words, "Thank you for your suggestions, but I'm going to ignore
>> them."
>>
>> Saying ESME is an essential part of OFBiz is like saying Apache James is
>> an essential part of OFBiz - so we can send emails from OFBiz.
>>
>> No, we don't need to install ESME - just create a gateway to it. The
>> integration Wiki page
>> (http://incubator.apache.org/esme/collaboration-with-ofbiz.html) already
>> suggests something like that.
>>
>> -Adrian
>>
>>
>> Hans Bakker wrote:
>>> Hi everybody who commented.
>>>
>>> The approach that Adrian has below and is supported by others in the
>>> community was also our first and seems the easiest from an
>>> implementation point of view.
>>>
>>> After some investigation however we consider ESME not only an add-on but
>>> an essential part of OFBiz which should be automatically installed when
>>> OFBiz is installed.
>>>
>>> That means:
>>> 1. everybody who is registered in OFBiz is automatically using ESME.
>>> 2. everybody will follow the system messages from the system
>>> administrator which is currently done in the system info notes
>>> (commonext component), ESME will replace it.
>>>
>>> The proposal:
>>> 1. We should install ESME as a 'normal' OFBiz component in the
>>> application- or even framework folder because it will be a mandatory
>>> part of the system.
>>> 2. ESME authentication will be disabled and should, as a normal ofbiz
>>> component, use the framework authentication.
>>> 3. ESME runs happily under Tomcat and is using the Java runtime.
>>> 4. ESME has the Apache 2 license, so no problems here too.
>>>
>>> Further plans:
>>> We almost upgraded to Axis2 in the framework and let OFBiz installations
>>> exchange ESME messages via webservices.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Hans.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, 2009-12-14 at 07:48 -0800, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>> I believe any integration with existing chat/twitter-like services would
>>>> be useful.
>>>>
>>>> From my perspective, it would be best to build into OFBiz a gateway to
>>>> these external services. In other words, take the same approach we use
>>>> with external payment processors. I believe that would be less
>>>> complicated and more flexible than integrating a specific service into
>>>> OFBiz.
>>>>
>>>> -Adrian
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hans Bakker wrote:
>>>>> Some users are wondering if ESME is useful to add to OFBiz or not,
>>>>> therefore some promotion why I think it is interesting and yes I have
>>>>> business cases for it:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. It started with a request of our customers to have a chat possibility
>>>>> in e-commerce for new users to ask questions via chat. I looked at 2
>>>>> chat open source frameworks. Then ESME was proposed here in the mailing
>>>>> list. My opinion is that if ESME can do chat too, then better go for
>>>>> ESME so we have also twitter functions. (as Tim also stated)
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. ESME allows to use the twitter principle in a protected business
>>>>> environment: developers/marketeers exchanging ideas, announcing news and
>>>>> problems. (yes you should use OFBiz in your company to see these
>>>>> benefits)
>>>>> If you are still not convinced of twitter in a business environment: get
>>>>> a twitter account and follow me: @hansbak i will keep you informed about
>>>>> ESME within OFBiz and you will have the opportunity for point 3 as a
>>>>> bonus.
>>>>>
>>>>> 3. ESME was actually born in the SAP environment and many people from
>>>>> this environment now getting exposed to OFBiz because we are looking at
>>>>> ESME too and the ESME people "retweet" my ESME experiences to their
>>>>> network of twitter accounts.
>>>>>
>>>>> I was not convinced about this twitter stuff but using this for my ESME
>>>>> investigations has shown me that it is actually pretty exiting getting
>>>>> to know so much new people in such a short time.
>>>>>
>>>>> David thanks for the support because it looks like that the OFBiz
>>>>> community has a problem accepting new functions like this one, even if
>>>>> it does not affect their usage of OFBiz. So please people, not too
>>>>> conservative and always be open to new developments!
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Hans
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, 2009-12-12 at 16:30 +0700, Hans Bakker wrote:
>>>>>> Proposal:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We are looking to copy an ESME server within OFBiz as a component to
>>>>>> allow for twitter like messaging within the OFBiz environment.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> users coming on the ecommerce site can 'twitter' a message which is
>>>>>> monitored by the system admin, who can answer the questions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Logged in users can follow other registered users and can twitter what
>>>>>> they are doing...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> more info at
>>>>>> http://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/ESME/Collaboration+with+OFbiz
>>>>>>
>>>>>> any thoughts?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>> Hans (@hansbak)
>>>>>>
> --
> Antwebsystems.com: Quality OFBiz services for competitive rates
>

[Adrian Crum]

What if I want the messaging feature, but I already have a messaging
server that isn't ESME?

-Adrian

Hans Bakker wrote:

> we are still investigating how to interface but yes an inclusion of a
> full system as a component seems the best way to us if only for the ease
> of installation and the convenient license.
>
> looking more into skala ..... an possible upgrade to groovy and java
> being compatible with our current runtime environment (JVM/Tomcat)
>
> On Tue, 2009-12-15 at 08:58 -0800, Adrian Crum wrote:
>> In other words, "Thank you for your suggestions, but I'm going to ignore
>> them."
>>
>> Saying ESME is an essential part of OFBiz is like saying Apache James is
>> an essential part of OFBiz - so we can send emails from OFBiz.
>>
>> No, we don't need to install ESME - just create a gateway to it. The
>> integration Wiki page
>> (http://incubator.apache.org/esme/collaboration-with-ofbiz.html) already
>> suggests something like that.
>>
>> -Adrian
>>
>>
>> Hans Bakker wrote:
>>> Hi everybody who commented.
>>>
>>> The approach that Adrian has below and is supported by others in the
>>> community was also our first and seems the easiest from an
>>> implementation point of view.
>>>
>>> After some investigation however we consider ESME not only an add-on but
>>> an essential part of OFBiz which should be automatically installed when
>>> OFBiz is installed.
>>>
>>> That means:
>>> 1. everybody who is registered in OFBiz is automatically using ESME.
>>> 2. everybody will follow the system messages from the system
>>> administrator which is currently done in the system info notes
>>> (commonext component), ESME will replace it.
>>>
>>> The proposal:
>>> 1. We should install ESME as a 'normal' OFBiz component in the
>>> application- or even framework folder because it will be a mandatory
>>> part of the system.
>>> 2. ESME authentication will be disabled and should, as a normal ofbiz
>>> component, use the framework authentication.
>>> 3. ESME runs happily under Tomcat and is using the Java runtime.
>>> 4. ESME has the Apache 2 license, so no problems here too.
>>>
>>> Further plans:
>>> We almost upgraded to Axis2 in the framework and let OFBiz installations
>>> exchange ESME messages via webservices.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Hans.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, 2009-12-14 at 07:48 -0800, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>> I believe any integration with existing chat/twitter-like services would
>>>> be useful.
>>>>
>>>>  From my perspective, it would be best to build into OFBiz a gateway to
>>>> these external services. In other words, take the same approach we use
>>>> with external payment processors. I believe that would be less
>>>> complicated and more flexible than integrating a specific service into
>>>> OFBiz.
>>>>
>>>> -Adrian
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hans Bakker wrote:
>>>>> Some users are wondering if ESME is useful to add to OFBiz or not,
>>>>> therefore some promotion why I think it is interesting and yes I have
>>>>> business cases for it:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. It started with a request of our customers to have a chat possibility
>>>>> in e-commerce for new users to ask questions via chat. I looked at 2
>>>>> chat open source frameworks. Then ESME was proposed here in the mailing
>>>>> list. My opinion is that if ESME can do chat too, then better go for
>>>>> ESME so we have also twitter functions. (as Tim also stated)
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. ESME allows to use the twitter principle in a protected business
>>>>> environment: developers/marketeers exchanging ideas, announcing news and
>>>>> problems. (yes you should use OFBiz in your company to see these
>>>>> benefits)
>>>>> If you are still not convinced of twitter in a business environment: get
>>>>> a twitter account and follow me: @hansbak i will keep you informed about
>>>>> ESME within OFBiz and you will have the opportunity for point 3 as a
>>>>> bonus.
>>>>>
>>>>> 3. ESME was actually born in the SAP environment and many people from
>>>>> this environment now getting exposed to OFBiz because we are looking at
>>>>> ESME too and the ESME people "retweet" my ESME experiences to their
>>>>> network of twitter accounts.
>>>>>
>>>>> I was not convinced about this twitter stuff but using this for my ESME
>>>>> investigations has shown me that it is actually pretty exiting getting
>>>>> to know so much new people in such a short time.
>>>>>
>>>>> David thanks for the support because it looks like that the OFBiz
>>>>> community has a problem accepting new functions like this one, even if
>>>>> it does not affect their usage of OFBiz. So please people, not too
>>>>> conservative and always be open to new developments!
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Hans
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, 2009-12-12 at 16:30 +0700, Hans Bakker wrote:
>>>>>> Proposal:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We are looking to copy an ESME server within OFBiz as a component to
>>>>>> allow for twitter like messaging within the OFBiz environment.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> users coming on the ecommerce site can 'twitter' a message which is
>>>>>> monitored by the system admin, who can answer the questions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Logged in users can follow other registered users and can twitter what
>>>>>> they are doing...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> more info at
>>>>>> http://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/ESME/Collaboration+with+OFbiz
>>>>>>
>>>>>> any thoughts?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>> Hans (@hansbak)
>>>>>>

[David E. Jones-2]

Then you'll have to develop support for it, or get someone else to do it for you.

I'm not aware of any generic specification we could implement to that would support ESME as well as other options. Is there one you have in mind?

-David


On Dec 15, 2009, at 5:42 PM, Adrian Crum wrote:

> What if I want the messaging feature, but I already have a messaging server that isn't ESME?
>
> -Adrian
>
> Hans Bakker wrote:
>> we are still investigating how to interface but yes an inclusion of a
>> full system as a component seems the best way to us if only for the ease
>> of installation and the convenient license.
>> looking more into skala ..... an possible upgrade to groovy and java
>> being compatible with our current runtime environment (JVM/Tomcat)
>> On Tue, 2009-12-15 at 08:58 -0800, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>> In other words, "Thank you for your suggestions, but I'm going to ignore them."
>>>
>>> Saying ESME is an essential part of OFBiz is like saying Apache James is an essential part of OFBiz - so we can send emails from OFBiz.
>>>
>>> No, we don't need to install ESME - just create a gateway to it. The integration Wiki page (http://incubator.apache.org/esme/collaboration-with-ofbiz.html) already suggests something like that.
>>>
>>> -Adrian
>>>
>>>
>>> Hans Bakker wrote:
>>>> Hi everybody who commented.
>>>>
>>>> The approach that Adrian has below and is supported by others in the
>>>> community was also our first and seems the easiest from an
>>>> implementation point of view.
>>>> After some investigation however we consider ESME not only an add-on but
>>>> an essential part of OFBiz which should be automatically installed when
>>>> OFBiz is installed.
>>>>
>>>> That means:
>>>> 1. everybody who is registered in OFBiz is automatically using ESME.
>>>> 2. everybody will follow the system messages from the system
>>>> administrator which is currently done in the system info notes
>>>> (commonext component), ESME will replace it.
>>>>
>>>> The proposal:
>>>> 1. We should install ESME as a 'normal' OFBiz component in the
>>>> application- or even framework folder because it will be a mandatory
>>>> part of the system.
>>>> 2. ESME authentication will be disabled and should, as a normal ofbiz
>>>> component, use the framework authentication.
>>>> 3. ESME runs happily under Tomcat and is using the Java runtime.
>>>> 4. ESME has the Apache 2 license, so no problems here too.
>>>>
>>>> Further plans:
>>>> We almost upgraded to Axis2 in the framework and let OFBiz installations
>>>> exchange ESME messages via webservices.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Hans.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, 2009-12-14 at 07:48 -0800, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>> I believe any integration with existing chat/twitter-like services would be useful.
>>>>>
>>>>> From my perspective, it would be best to build into OFBiz a gateway to these external services. In other words, take the same approach we use with external payment processors. I believe that would be less complicated and more flexible than integrating a specific service into OFBiz.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hans Bakker wrote:
>>>>>> Some users are wondering if ESME is useful to add to OFBiz or not,
>>>>>> therefore some promotion why I think it is interesting and yes I have
>>>>>> business cases for it:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. It started with a request of our customers to have a chat possibility
>>>>>> in e-commerce for new users to ask questions via chat. I looked at 2
>>>>>> chat open source frameworks. Then ESME was proposed here in the mailing
>>>>>> list. My opinion is that if ESME can do chat too, then better go for
>>>>>> ESME so we have also twitter functions. (as Tim also stated)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2. ESME allows to use the twitter principle in a protected business
>>>>>> environment: developers/marketeers exchanging ideas, announcing news and
>>>>>> problems. (yes you should use OFBiz in your company to see these
>>>>>> benefits)
>>>>>> If you are still not convinced of twitter in a business environment: get
>>>>>> a twitter account and follow me: @hansbak i will keep you informed about
>>>>>> ESME within OFBiz and you will have the opportunity for point 3 as a
>>>>>> bonus.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 3. ESME was actually born in the SAP environment and many people from
>>>>>> this environment now getting exposed to OFBiz because we are looking at
>>>>>> ESME too and the ESME people "retweet" my ESME experiences to their
>>>>>> network of twitter accounts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I was not convinced about this twitter stuff but using this for my ESME
>>>>>> investigations has shown me that it is actually pretty exiting getting
>>>>>> to know so much new people in such a short time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> David thanks for the support because it looks like that the OFBiz
>>>>>> community has a problem accepting new functions like this one, even if
>>>>>> it does not affect their usage of OFBiz. So please people, not too
>>>>>> conservative and always be open to new developments!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> Hans
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, 2009-12-12 at 16:30 +0700, Hans Bakker wrote:
>>>>>>> Proposal:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We are looking to copy an ESME server within OFBiz as a component to
>>>>>>> allow for twitter like messaging within the OFBiz environment.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> users coming on the ecommerce site can 'twitter' a message which is
>>>>>>> monitored by the system admin, who can answer the questions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Logged in users can follow other registered users and can twitter what
>>>>>>> they are doing...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> more info at
>>>>>>> http://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/ESME/Collaboration+with+OFbiz
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> any thoughts?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>>> Hans (@hansbak)
>>>>>>>

[Adrian Crum]

Developing support for it would be fine, if the messaging feature was
set up as a gateway.

I'm not aware of any generic specifications for payment gateways, yet
OFBiz accommodates a variety of them.

The point I have been trying to make is this: if we're going to add an
instant messaging or twitter-like feature to OFBiz, let's do it in a way
that works for more than one messaging service.

-Adrian

David E Jones wrote:

> Then you'll have to develop support for it, or get someone else to do it for you.
>
> I'm not aware of any generic specification we could implement to that would support ESME as well as other options. Is there one you have in mind?
>
> -David
>
>
> On Dec 15, 2009, at 5:42 PM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>
>> What if I want the messaging feature, but I already have a messaging server that isn't ESME?
>>
>> -Adrian
>>
>> Hans Bakker wrote:
>>> we are still investigating how to interface but yes an inclusion of a
>>> full system as a component seems the best way to us if only for the ease
>>> of installation and the convenient license.
>>> looking more into skala ..... an possible upgrade to groovy and java
>>> being compatible with our current runtime environment (JVM/Tomcat)
>>> On Tue, 2009-12-15 at 08:58 -0800, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>> In other words, "Thank you for your suggestions, but I'm going to ignore them."
>>>>
>>>> Saying ESME is an essential part of OFBiz is like saying Apache James is an essential part of OFBiz - so we can send emails from OFBiz.
>>>>
>>>> No, we don't need to install ESME - just create a gateway to it. The integration Wiki page (http://incubator.apache.org/esme/collaboration-with-ofbiz.html) already suggests something like that.
>>>>
>>>> -Adrian
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hans Bakker wrote:
>>>>> Hi everybody who commented.
>>>>>
>>>>> The approach that Adrian has below and is supported by others in the
>>>>> community was also our first and seems the easiest from an
>>>>> implementation point of view.
>>>>> After some investigation however we consider ESME not only an add-on but
>>>>> an essential part of OFBiz which should be automatically installed when
>>>>> OFBiz is installed.
>>>>>
>>>>> That means:
>>>>> 1. everybody who is registered in OFBiz is automatically using ESME.
>>>>> 2. everybody will follow the system messages from the system
>>>>> administrator which is currently done in the system info notes
>>>>> (commonext component), ESME will replace it.
>>>>>
>>>>> The proposal:
>>>>> 1. We should install ESME as a 'normal' OFBiz component in the
>>>>> application- or even framework folder because it will be a mandatory
>>>>> part of the system.
>>>>> 2. ESME authentication will be disabled and should, as a normal ofbiz
>>>>> component, use the framework authentication.
>>>>> 3. ESME runs happily under Tomcat and is using the Java runtime.
>>>>> 4. ESME has the Apache 2 license, so no problems here too.
>>>>>
>>>>> Further plans:
>>>>> We almost upgraded to Axis2 in the framework and let OFBiz installations
>>>>> exchange ESME messages via webservices.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Hans.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 2009-12-14 at 07:48 -0800, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>> I believe any integration with existing chat/twitter-like services would be useful.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From my perspective, it would be best to build into OFBiz a gateway to these external services. In other words, take the same approach we use with external payment processors. I believe that would be less complicated and more flexible than integrating a specific service into OFBiz.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hans Bakker wrote:
>>>>>>> Some users are wondering if ESME is useful to add to OFBiz or not,
>>>>>>> therefore some promotion why I think it is interesting and yes I have
>>>>>>> business cases for it:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1. It started with a request of our customers to have a chat possibility
>>>>>>> in e-commerce for new users to ask questions via chat. I looked at 2
>>>>>>> chat open source frameworks. Then ESME was proposed here in the mailing
>>>>>>> list. My opinion is that if ESME can do chat too, then better go for
>>>>>>> ESME so we have also twitter functions. (as Tim also stated)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2. ESME allows to use the twitter principle in a protected business
>>>>>>> environment: developers/marketeers exchanging ideas, announcing news and
>>>>>>> problems. (yes you should use OFBiz in your company to see these
>>>>>>> benefits)
>>>>>>> If you are still not convinced of twitter in a business environment: get
>>>>>>> a twitter account and follow me: @hansbak i will keep you informed about
>>>>>>> ESME within OFBiz and you will have the opportunity for point 3 as a
>>>>>>> bonus.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 3. ESME was actually born in the SAP environment and many people from
>>>>>>> this environment now getting exposed to OFBiz because we are looking at
>>>>>>> ESME too and the ESME people "retweet" my ESME experiences to their
>>>>>>> network of twitter accounts.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I was not convinced about this twitter stuff but using this for my ESME
>>>>>>> investigations has shown me that it is actually pretty exiting getting
>>>>>>> to know so much new people in such a short time.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> David thanks for the support because it looks like that the OFBiz
>>>>>>> community has a problem accepting new functions like this one, even if
>>>>>>> it does not affect their usage of OFBiz. So please people, not too
>>>>>>> conservative and always be open to new developments!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>> Hans
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, 2009-12-12 at 16:30 +0700, Hans Bakker wrote:
>>>>>>>> Proposal:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We are looking to copy an ESME server within OFBiz as a component to
>>>>>>>> allow for twitter like messaging within the OFBiz environment.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> users coming on the ecommerce site can 'twitter' a message which is
>>>>>>>> monitored by the system admin, who can answer the questions.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Logged in users can follow other registered users and can twitter what
>>>>>>>> they are doing...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> more info at
>>>>>>>> http://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/ESME/Collaboration+with+OFbiz
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> any thoughts?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>>>> Hans (@hansbak)
>>>>>>>>
>
>

[David E. Jones-2]

Just to be clear, are you saying you want to work on this?

Please keep in mind that people are free to contribute what they will. Maybe we can vote or all agree on not allowing something in, but we can't force anyone to do anything. We also shouldn't, though many of us often do, imply that others should do something just because we think they should.

Sharing ideas is great, but unless someone actually does it, then by definition it ain't gonna happen.

-David


On Dec 15, 2009, at 6:02 PM, Adrian Crum wrote:

> Developing support for it would be fine, if the messaging feature was set up as a gateway.
>
> I'm not aware of any generic specifications for payment gateways, yet OFBiz accommodates a variety of them.
>
> The point I have been trying to make is this: if we're going to add an instant messaging or twitter-like feature to OFBiz, let's do it in a way that works for more than one messaging service.
>
> -Adrian
>
> David E Jones wrote:
>> Then you'll have to develop support for it, or get someone else to do it for you.
>> I'm not aware of any generic specification we could implement to that would support ESME as well as other options. Is there one you have in mind?
>> -David
>> On Dec 15, 2009, at 5:42 PM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>> What if I want the messaging feature, but I already have a messaging server that isn't ESME?
>>>
>>> -Adrian
>>>
>>> Hans Bakker wrote:
>>>> we are still investigating how to interface but yes an inclusion of a
>>>> full system as a component seems the best way to us if only for the ease
>>>> of installation and the convenient license.
>>>> looking more into skala ..... an possible upgrade to groovy and java
>>>> being compatible with our current runtime environment (JVM/Tomcat)
>>>> On Tue, 2009-12-15 at 08:58 -0800, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>> In other words, "Thank you for your suggestions, but I'm going to ignore them."
>>>>>
>>>>> Saying ESME is an essential part of OFBiz is like saying Apache James is an essential part of OFBiz - so we can send emails from OFBiz.
>>>>>
>>>>> No, we don't need to install ESME - just create a gateway to it. The integration Wiki page (http://incubator.apache.org/esme/collaboration-with-ofbiz.html) already suggests something like that.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hans Bakker wrote:
>>>>>> Hi everybody who commented.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The approach that Adrian has below and is supported by others in the
>>>>>> community was also our first and seems the easiest from an
>>>>>> implementation point of view. After some investigation however we consider ESME not only an add-on but
>>>>>> an essential part of OFBiz which should be automatically installed when
>>>>>> OFBiz is installed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That means:
>>>>>> 1. everybody who is registered in OFBiz is automatically using ESME.
>>>>>> 2. everybody will follow the system messages from the system
>>>>>> administrator which is currently done in the system info notes
>>>>>> (commonext component), ESME will replace it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The proposal:
>>>>>> 1. We should install ESME as a 'normal' OFBiz component in the
>>>>>> application- or even framework folder because it will be a mandatory
>>>>>> part of the system.
>>>>>> 2. ESME authentication will be disabled and should, as a normal ofbiz
>>>>>> component, use the framework authentication.
>>>>>> 3. ESME runs happily under Tomcat and is using the Java runtime.
>>>>>> 4. ESME has the Apache 2 license, so no problems here too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Further plans:
>>>>>> We almost upgraded to Axis2 in the framework and let OFBiz installations
>>>>>> exchange ESME messages via webservices.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> Hans.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, 2009-12-14 at 07:48 -0800, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>> I believe any integration with existing chat/twitter-like services would be useful.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From my perspective, it would be best to build into OFBiz a gateway to these external services. In other words, take the same approach we use with external payment processors. I believe that would be less complicated and more flexible than integrating a specific service into OFBiz.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hans Bakker wrote:
>>>>>>>> Some users are wondering if ESME is useful to add to OFBiz or not,
>>>>>>>> therefore some promotion why I think it is interesting and yes I have
>>>>>>>> business cases for it:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 1. It started with a request of our customers to have a chat possibility
>>>>>>>> in e-commerce for new users to ask questions via chat. I looked at 2
>>>>>>>> chat open source frameworks. Then ESME was proposed here in the mailing
>>>>>>>> list. My opinion is that if ESME can do chat too, then better go for
>>>>>>>> ESME so we have also twitter functions. (as Tim also stated)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2. ESME allows to use the twitter principle in a protected business
>>>>>>>> environment: developers/marketeers exchanging ideas, announcing news and
>>>>>>>> problems. (yes you should use OFBiz in your company to see these
>>>>>>>> benefits)
>>>>>>>> If you are still not convinced of twitter in a business environment: get
>>>>>>>> a twitter account and follow me: @hansbak i will keep you informed about
>>>>>>>> ESME within OFBiz and you will have the opportunity for point 3 as a
>>>>>>>> bonus.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 3. ESME was actually born in the SAP environment and many people from
>>>>>>>> this environment now getting exposed to OFBiz because we are looking at
>>>>>>>> ESME too and the ESME people "retweet" my ESME experiences to their
>>>>>>>> network of twitter accounts.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I was not convinced about this twitter stuff but using this for my ESME
>>>>>>>> investigations has shown me that it is actually pretty exiting getting
>>>>>>>> to know so much new people in such a short time.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> David thanks for the support because it looks like that the OFBiz
>>>>>>>> community has a problem accepting new functions like this one, even if
>>>>>>>> it does not affect their usage of OFBiz. So please people, not too
>>>>>>>> conservative and always be open to new developments!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>> Hans
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sat, 2009-12-12 at 16:30 +0700, Hans Bakker wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Proposal:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We are looking to copy an ESME server within OFBiz as a component to
>>>>>>>>> allow for twitter like messaging within the OFBiz environment.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> users coming on the ecommerce site can 'twitter' a message which is
>>>>>>>>> monitored by the system admin, who can answer the questions.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Logged in users can follow other registered users and can twitter what
>>>>>>>>> they are doing...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> more info at
>>>>>>>>> http://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/ESME/Collaboration+with+OFbiz
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> any thoughts?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>>>>> Hans (@hansbak)
>>>>>>>>>

[Adrian Crum]

No, I'm not saying I want to work on it. No, I'm not trying to force
anyone to do anything.

The subject of the thread is ESME implementation. I'm sharing ideas on
that subject. I'm making suggestions. I'm providing examples of how
similar features in OFBiz were implemented previously.

-Adrian

David E Jones wrote:

> Just to be clear, are you saying you want to work on this?
>
> Please keep in mind that people are free to contribute what they will. Maybe we can vote or all agree on not allowing something in, but we can't force anyone to do anything. We also shouldn't, though many of us often do, imply that others should do something just because we think they should.
>
> Sharing ideas is great, but unless someone actually does it, then by definition it ain't gonna happen.
>
> -David
>
>
> On Dec 15, 2009, at 6:02 PM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>
>> Developing support for it would be fine, if the messaging feature was set up as a gateway.
>>
>> I'm not aware of any generic specifications for payment gateways, yet OFBiz accommodates a variety of them.
>>
>> The point I have been trying to make is this: if we're going to add an instant messaging or twitter-like feature to OFBiz, let's do it in a way that works for more than one messaging service.
>>
>> -Adrian
>>
>> David E Jones wrote:
>>> Then you'll have to develop support for it, or get someone else to do it for you.
>>> I'm not aware of any generic specification we could implement to that would support ESME as well as other options. Is there one you have in mind?
>>> -David
>>> On Dec 15, 2009, at 5:42 PM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>> What if I want the messaging feature, but I already have a messaging server that isn't ESME?
>>>>
>>>> -Adrian
>>>>
>>>> Hans Bakker wrote:
>>>>> we are still investigating how to interface but yes an inclusion of a
>>>>> full system as a component seems the best way to us if only for the ease
>>>>> of installation and the convenient license.
>>>>> looking more into skala ..... an possible upgrade to groovy and java
>>>>> being compatible with our current runtime environment (JVM/Tomcat)
>>>>> On Tue, 2009-12-15 at 08:58 -0800, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>> In other words, "Thank you for your suggestions, but I'm going to ignore them."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Saying ESME is an essential part of OFBiz is like saying Apache James is an essential part of OFBiz - so we can send emails from OFBiz.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No, we don't need to install ESME - just create a gateway to it. The integration Wiki page (http://incubator.apache.org/esme/collaboration-with-ofbiz.html) already suggests something like that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hans Bakker wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi everybody who commented.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The approach that Adrian has below and is supported by others in the
>>>>>>> community was also our first and seems the easiest from an
>>>>>>> implementation point of view. After some investigation however we consider ESME not only an add-on but
>>>>>>> an essential part of OFBiz which should be automatically installed when
>>>>>>> OFBiz is installed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That means:
>>>>>>> 1. everybody who is registered in OFBiz is automatically using ESME.
>>>>>>> 2. everybody will follow the system messages from the system
>>>>>>> administrator which is currently done in the system info notes
>>>>>>> (commonext component), ESME will replace it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The proposal:
>>>>>>> 1. We should install ESME as a 'normal' OFBiz component in the
>>>>>>> application- or even framework folder because it will be a mandatory
>>>>>>> part of the system.
>>>>>>> 2. ESME authentication will be disabled and should, as a normal ofbiz
>>>>>>> component, use the framework authentication.
>>>>>>> 3. ESME runs happily under Tomcat and is using the Java runtime.
>>>>>>> 4. ESME has the Apache 2 license, so no problems here too.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Further plans:
>>>>>>> We almost upgraded to Axis2 in the framework and let OFBiz installations
>>>>>>> exchange ESME messages via webservices.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>> Hans.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, 2009-12-14 at 07:48 -0800, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>>> I believe any integration with existing chat/twitter-like services would be useful.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From my perspective, it would be best to build into OFBiz a gateway to these external services. In other words, take the same approach we use with external payment processors. I believe that would be less complicated and more flexible than integrating a specific service into OFBiz.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hans Bakker wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Some users are wondering if ESME is useful to add to OFBiz or not,
>>>>>>>>> therefore some promotion why I think it is interesting and yes I have
>>>>>>>>> business cases for it:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 1. It started with a request of our customers to have a chat possibility
>>>>>>>>> in e-commerce for new users to ask questions via chat. I looked at 2
>>>>>>>>> chat open source frameworks. Then ESME was proposed here in the mailing
>>>>>>>>> list. My opinion is that if ESME can do chat too, then better go for
>>>>>>>>> ESME so we have also twitter functions. (as Tim also stated)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 2. ESME allows to use the twitter principle in a protected business
>>>>>>>>> environment: developers/marketeers exchanging ideas, announcing news and
>>>>>>>>> problems. (yes you should use OFBiz in your company to see these
>>>>>>>>> benefits)
>>>>>>>>> If you are still not convinced of twitter in a business environment: get
>>>>>>>>> a twitter account and follow me: @hansbak i will keep you informed about
>>>>>>>>> ESME within OFBiz and you will have the opportunity for point 3 as a
>>>>>>>>> bonus.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 3. ESME was actually born in the SAP environment and many people from
>>>>>>>>> this environment now getting exposed to OFBiz because we are looking at
>>>>>>>>> ESME too and the ESME people "retweet" my ESME experiences to their
>>>>>>>>> network of twitter accounts.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I was not convinced about this twitter stuff but using this for my ESME
>>>>>>>>> investigations has shown me that it is actually pretty exiting getting
>>>>>>>>> to know so much new people in such a short time.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> David thanks for the support because it looks like that the OFBiz
>>>>>>>>> community has a problem accepting new functions like this one, even if
>>>>>>>>> it does not affect their usage of OFBiz. So please people, not too
>>>>>>>>> conservative and always be open to new developments!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>> Hans
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 2009-12-12 at 16:30 +0700, Hans Bakker wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Proposal:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> We are looking to copy an ESME server within OFBiz as a component to
>>>>>>>>>> allow for twitter like messaging within the OFBiz environment.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> users coming on the ecommerce site can 'twitter' a message which is
>>>>>>>>>> monitored by the system admin, who can answer the questions.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Logged in users can follow other registered users and can twitter what
>>>>>>>>>> they are doing...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> more info at
>>>>>>>>>> http://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/ESME/Collaboration+with+OFbiz
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> any thoughts?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>>>>>> Hans (@hansbak)
>>>>>>>>>>
>
>