purchase invoice payment
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If I receive enter a purchase invoice into ofbiz when I receive a vendors
invoice, I have to: - raise the purchase invoice - raise an outgoing payment and apply to the purchase invoice. Is it possible to combine the steps, i.e. raising the invoice and automatically generate the payment for the invoice and apply it to the invoice? Many thanks in advance, Chri |
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Hi Chris
I'm not sure that you can automate a payment in this way in OFBiz and I'm not sure from a business perspective that you would want to take out the manual creation of payments to suppliers (since effectively you're taking out key verification / approval step). OFBiz can generate the purchase invoice for you if you use Order Entry to enter a Purchase Order to a supplier, then when you receive the purchase order products Ofbiz will generate a 'pro forma' invoice (which in layman's terms is 'draft Purchase Invoice' based on the Purchase Order.) so it will contain the same costs and taxes as the original purchase order. When the real Purchase Invoice arrives you can enter any adjustments (eg perhaps they gave you a discount or there was a price increase that you werent aware of) and update the pro forma invoice so that it is correct, then you can approve it and pay it. I suppose similar to the 'pro forma invoice' concept you could create a 'pro forma payment' but you'd still need some form of manual approval to ensure that the company bank account will be able bear the cost of the payment. I've been on projects where we have implemented automatic Purchase Order/Goods Received Note(GRN) and payment voucher generation for purchase orders so I know there are businesses out there that do use it. Thanks Sharan
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Hi Sharan,
Many thanks for the detailed reply. The type of scenario I was thinking about was where a company employee purchases a consumable product using company credit card. The company is a small business and does not need a purchase order approval process. I was thinking that because the payment has already been made by credit card, having the payment as a separate step in ofbiz makes the process quite cumbersome. I apologize if my questions (and usage of ofbiz) seem stupid! Many thanks, Chris Sharan-F wrote: > Hi Chris > > I'm not sure that you can automate a payment in this way in OFBiz and I'm > not sure from a business perspective that you would want to take out the > manual creation of payments to suppliers (since effectively you're taking > out key verification / approval step). > > OFBiz can generate the purchase invoice for you if you use Order Entry to > enter a Purchase Order to a supplier, then when you receive the purchase > order products Ofbiz will generate a 'pro forma' invoice (which in layman's > terms is 'draft Purchase Invoice' based on the Purchase Order.) so it will > contain the same costs and taxes as the original purchase order. > > When the real Purchase Invoice arrives you can enter any adjustments (eg > perhaps they gave you a discount or there was a price increase that you > werent aware of) and update the pro forma invoice so that it is correct, > then you can approve it and pay it. > > I suppose similar to the 'pro forma invoice' concept you could create a 'pro > forma payment' but you'd still need some form of manual approval to ensure > that the company bank account will be able bear the cost of the payment. > > I've been on projects where we have implemented automatic Purchase > Order/Goods Received Note(GRN) and payment voucher generation for purchase > orders so I know there are businesses out there that do use it. > > Thanks > Sharan > > > Chris Snow-3 wrote: > >> If I receive enter a purchase invoice into ofbiz when I receive a vendors >> invoice, I have to: >> >> - raise the purchase invoice >> - raise an outgoing payment and apply to the purchase invoice. >> >> Is it possible to combine the steps, i.e. raising the invoice and >> automatically generate the payment for the invoice and apply it to the >> invoice? >> >> Many thanks in advance, >> >> Chri >> >> >> > > |
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Hi Chris
No worries – I'm no OFBiz expert either and OFBiz was new to everyone at some point or other. The scenario you describe sounds like Indirect Purchasing so could be something like office supplies etc, rather than something that is directly part of a product or a product manufacturing process that will be on sold to customers. You're also talking about pre-payment here because you pay (via credit card) before the product itself gets delivered. A lot of purchasing processes have the product delivered first then they send the invoice and even then you get several days (or weeks or months!) in which to pay. It will probably depend on the number of these purchasing credit card transactions that will determine how you handle it. It there are a lot of them then you'd probably want to streamline it. What I've seen done before is an import of an electronic credit card statement where the payment is generated from the statement itself and then matched to the purchase invoice via reference numbers etc. Without knowing too much about your scope and thinking off the top of my head you could put something together that could create the payment automatically but you still might need some way to track the company credit card transactions like you would a bank account. You'd probably want to track the credit limit for the card since you dont want the employee to spend $1001 when the credit card limit it $1000.You may also want to setup a GL account to mirror the credit card transactions in the General Ledger for reconciliation and accounting purposes. Not sure if this helps much but hopefully someone else may respond with other ideas too. Thanks Sharan
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Hi Sharan,
Which version of ofbiz do you normally prefer to go for? Many thanks, Chris Sharan-F wrote: > Hi Chris > > No worries – I'm no OFBiz expert either and OFBiz was new to everyone at > some point or other. > > The scenario you describe sounds like Indirect Purchasing so could be > something like office supplies etc, rather than something that is directly > part of a product or a product manufacturing process that will be on sold to > customers. > > You're also talking about pre-payment here because you pay (via credit card) > before the product itself gets delivered. A lot of purchasing processes have > the product delivered first then they send the invoice and even then you get > several days (or weeks or months!) in which to pay. > > It will probably depend on the number of these purchasing credit card > transactions that will determine how you handle it. It there are a lot of > them then you'd probably want to streamline it. > > What I've seen done before is an import of an electronic credit card > statement where the payment is generated from the statement itself and then > matched to the purchase invoice via reference numbers etc. > > Without knowing too much about your scope and thinking off the top of my > head you could put something together that could create the payment > automatically but you still might need some way to track the company credit > card transactions like you would a bank account. You'd probably want to > track the credit limit for the card since you dont want the employee to > spend $1001 when the credit card limit it $1000.You may also want to setup > a GL account to mirror the credit card transactions in the General Ledger > for reconciliation and accounting purposes. > > Not sure if this helps much but hopefully someone else may respond with > other ideas too. > > Thanks > Sharan > > > Chris Snow-3 wrote: > >> Hi Sharan, >> >> Many thanks for the detailed reply. >> >> The type of scenario I was thinking about was where a company employee >> purchases a consumable product using company credit card. The company >> is a small business and does not need a purchase order approval >> process. I was thinking that because the payment has already been made >> by credit card, having the payment as a separate step in ofbiz makes the >> process quite cumbersome. >> >> I apologize if my questions (and usage of ofbiz) seem stupid! >> >> Many thanks, >> >> Chris >> >> >> >> >> Sharan-F wrote: >> >>> Hi Chris >>> >>> I'm not sure that you can automate a payment in this way in OFBiz and I'm >>> not sure from a business perspective that you would want to take out the >>> manual creation of payments to suppliers (since effectively you're taking >>> out key verification / approval step). >>> >>> OFBiz can generate the purchase invoice for you if you use Order Entry to >>> enter a Purchase Order to a supplier, then when you receive the >>> purchase >>> order products Ofbiz will generate a 'pro forma' invoice (which in >>> layman's >>> terms is 'draft Purchase Invoice' based on the Purchase Order.) so it >>> will >>> contain the same costs and taxes as the original purchase order. >>> >>> When the real Purchase Invoice arrives you can enter any adjustments (eg >>> perhaps they gave you a discount or there was a price increase that you >>> werent aware of) and update the pro forma invoice so that it is correct, >>> then you can approve it and pay it. >>> >>> I suppose similar to the 'pro forma invoice' concept you could create a >>> 'pro >>> forma payment' but you'd still need some form of manual approval to >>> ensure >>> that the company bank account will be able bear the cost of the payment. >>> >>> I've been on projects where we have implemented automatic Purchase >>> Order/Goods Received Note(GRN) and payment voucher generation for >>> purchase >>> orders so I know there are businesses out there that do use it. >>> >>> Thanks >>> Sharan >>> >>> >>> Chris Snow-3 wrote: >>> >>> >>>> If I receive enter a purchase invoice into ofbiz when I receive a >>>> vendors >>>> invoice, I have to: >>>> >>>> - raise the purchase invoice >>>> - raise an outgoing payment and apply to the purchase invoice. >>>> >>>> Is it possible to combine the steps, i.e. raising the invoice and >>>> automatically generate the payment for the invoice and apply it to the >>>> invoice? >>>> >>>> Many thanks in advance, >>>> >>>> Chri >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> > > |
Administrator
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This may turn helpful (since Sharan gave much guidance details) as a new business story in the library...
Jacques From: "Chris Snow" <[hidden email]> > Hi Sharan, > > Which version of ofbiz do you normally prefer to go for? > > Many thanks, > > Chris > > Sharan-F wrote: >> Hi Chris >> >> No worries – I'm no OFBiz expert either and OFBiz was new to everyone at >> some point or other. >> >> The scenario you describe sounds like Indirect Purchasing so could be >> something like office supplies etc, rather than something that is directly >> part of a product or a product manufacturing process that will be on sold to >> customers. >> >> You're also talking about pre-payment here because you pay (via credit card) >> before the product itself gets delivered. A lot of purchasing processes have >> the product delivered first then they send the invoice and even then you get >> several days (or weeks or months!) in which to pay. >> >> It will probably depend on the number of these purchasing credit card >> transactions that will determine how you handle it. It there are a lot of >> them then you'd probably want to streamline it. >> What I've seen done before is an import of an electronic credit card >> statement where the payment is generated from the statement itself and then >> matched to the purchase invoice via reference numbers etc. >> >> Without knowing too much about your scope and thinking off the top of my >> head you could put something together that could create the payment >> automatically but you still might need some way to track the company credit >> card transactions like you would a bank account. You'd probably want to >> track the credit limit for the card since you dont want the employee to >> spend $1001 when the credit card limit it $1000.You may also want to setup >> a GL account to mirror the credit card transactions in the General Ledger >> for reconciliation and accounting purposes. >> >> Not sure if this helps much but hopefully someone else may respond with >> other ideas too. >> >> Thanks >> Sharan >> >> >> Chris Snow-3 wrote: >> >>> Hi Sharan, >>> Many thanks for the detailed reply. >>> The type of scenario I was thinking about was where a company employee purchases a consumable product using company credit card. >>> The company is a small business and does not need a purchase order approval process. I was thinking that because the payment >>> has already been made by credit card, having the payment as a separate step in ofbiz makes the process quite cumbersome. >>> >>> I apologize if my questions (and usage of ofbiz) seem stupid! >>> >>> Many thanks, >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Sharan-F wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Chris >>>> >>>> I'm not sure that you can automate a payment in this way in OFBiz and I'm >>>> not sure from a business perspective that you would want to take out the >>>> manual creation of payments to suppliers (since effectively you're taking >>>> out key verification / approval step). >>>> >>>> OFBiz can generate the purchase invoice for you if you use Order Entry to >>>> enter a Purchase Order to a supplier, then when you receive the >>>> purchase >>>> order products Ofbiz will generate a 'pro forma' invoice (which in >>>> layman's >>>> terms is 'draft Purchase Invoice' based on the Purchase Order.) so it >>>> will >>>> contain the same costs and taxes as the original purchase order. >>>> >>>> When the real Purchase Invoice arrives you can enter any adjustments (eg >>>> perhaps they gave you a discount or there was a price increase that you >>>> werent aware of) and update the pro forma invoice so that it is correct, >>>> then you can approve it and pay it. >>>> >>>> I suppose similar to the 'pro forma invoice' concept you could create a >>>> 'pro >>>> forma payment' but you'd still need some form of manual approval to >>>> ensure >>>> that the company bank account will be able bear the cost of the payment. >>>> I've been on projects where we have implemented automatic Purchase >>>> Order/Goods Received Note(GRN) and payment voucher generation for >>>> purchase >>>> orders so I know there are businesses out there that do use it. >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> Sharan >>>> >>>> >>>> Chris Snow-3 wrote: >>>> >>>>> If I receive enter a purchase invoice into ofbiz when I receive a >>>>> vendors >>>>> invoice, I have to: >>>>> >>>>> - raise the purchase invoice >>>>> - raise an outgoing payment and apply to the purchase invoice. >>>>> >>>>> Is it possible to combine the steps, i.e. raising the invoice and >>>>> automatically generate the payment for the invoice and apply it to the >>>>> invoice? >>>>> >>>>> Many thanks in advance, >>>>> >>>>> Chri >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> > |
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Hi Chris
At the moment I use 9.04 but am helping to put together the online help documentation for the latest trunk so have been trying to keep up with the changes happening there especially on the accounting side. I think the trunk is looking a lot better accounting-wise but I just want to give it a thorough test to be able to understand the processes before I think about moving versions. Jacques – On the business process story side I've mentioned to David that it's something I'd like to contribute to but will finish the accounting documentation first so I get a fuller picture of whats what. Thanks Sharan
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Hi Sharan,
When you say that trunk is looking a lot better accounting-wise, am I right in thinking that 9.04 accounting is not ready for typical organisational accounting processes? How close is trunk to meeting the majority of company processes to be considered usable for accounting? Many thanks, Chris > > Hi Chris > > At the moment I use 9.04 but am helping to put together the online help > documentation for the latest trunk so have been trying to keep up with the > changes happening there especially on the accounting side. > > I think the trunk is looking a lot better accounting-wise but I just want > to > give it a thorough test to be able to understand the processes before I > think about moving versions. > > Jacques â On the business process story side I've mentioned to David > that > it's something I'd like to contribute to but will finish the accounting > documentation first so I get a fuller picture of whats what. > > Thanks > Sharan > > > jacques.le.roux wrote: >> >> This may turn helpful (since Sharan gave much guidance details) as a new >> business story in the library... >> >> Jacques >> >> From: "Chris Snow" <[hidden email]> >>> Hi Sharan, >>> >>> Which version of ofbiz do you normally prefer to go for? >>> >>> Many thanks, >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> Sharan-F wrote: >>>> Hi Chris >>>> >>>> No worries â I'm no OFBiz expert either and OFBiz was new to >>>> everyone at >>>> some point or other. >>>> >>>> The scenario you describe sounds like Indirect Purchasing so could be >>>> something like office supplies etc, rather than something that is >>>> directly >>>> part of a product or a product manufacturing process that will be on >>>> sold to >>>> customers. >>>> >>>> You're also talking about pre-payment here because you pay (via credit >>>> card) >>>> before the product itself gets delivered. A lot of purchasing >>>> processes >>>> have >>>> the product delivered first then they send the invoice and even then >>>> you >>>> get >>>> several days (or weeks or months!) in which to pay. >>>> >>>> It will probably depend on the number of these purchasing credit card >>>> transactions that will determine how you handle it. It there are a lot >>>> of >>>> them then you'd probably want to streamline it. >>>> What I've seen done before is an import of an electronic credit card >>>> statement where the payment is generated from the statement itself and >>>> then >>>> matched to the purchase invoice via reference numbers etc. >>>> >>>> Without knowing too much about your scope and thinking off the top of >>>> my >>>> head you could put something together that could create the payment >>>> automatically but you still might need some way to track the company >>>> credit >>>> card transactions like you would a bank account. You'd probably want >>>> to >>>> track the credit limit for the card since you dont want the employee >>>> to >>>> spend $1001 when the credit card limit it $1000.You may also want to >>>> setup >>>> a GL account to mirror the credit card transactions in the General >>>> Ledger >>>> for reconciliation and accounting purposes. >>>> >>>> Not sure if this helps much but hopefully someone else may respond >>>> with >>>> other ideas too. >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> Sharan >>>> >>>> >>>> Chris Snow-3 wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Sharan, >>>>> Many thanks for the detailed reply. >>>>> The type of scenario I was thinking about was where a company >>>>> employee >>>>> purchases a consumable product using company credit card. >>>>> The company is a small business and does not need a purchase order >>>>> approval process. I was thinking that because the payment >>>>> has already been made by credit card, having the payment as a >>>>> separate >>>>> step in ofbiz makes the process quite cumbersome. >>>>> >>>>> I apologize if my questions (and usage of ofbiz) seem stupid! >>>>> >>>>> Many thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Chris >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sharan-F wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Chris >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm not sure that you can automate a payment in this way in OFBiz >>>>>> and >>>>>> I'm >>>>>> not sure from a business perspective that you would want to take out >>>>>> the >>>>>> manual creation of payments to suppliers (since effectively you're >>>>>> taking >>>>>> out key verification / approval step). >>>>>> >>>>>> OFBiz can generate the purchase invoice for you if you use Order >>>>>> Entry >>>>>> to >>>>>> enter a Purchase Order to a supplier, then when you receive the >>>>>> purchase >>>>>> order products Ofbiz will generate a 'pro forma' invoice (which in >>>>>> layman's >>>>>> terms is 'draft Purchase Invoice' based on the Purchase Order.) so >>>>>> it >>>>>> will >>>>>> contain the same costs and taxes as the original purchase order. >>>>>> >>>>>> When the real Purchase Invoice arrives you can enter any adjustments >>>>>> (eg >>>>>> perhaps they gave you a discount or there was a price increase that >>>>>> you >>>>>> werent aware of) and update the pro forma invoice so that it is >>>>>> correct, >>>>>> then you can approve it and pay it. >>>>>> >>>>>> I suppose similar to the 'pro forma invoice' concept you could >>>>>> create >>>>>> a >>>>>> 'pro >>>>>> forma payment' but you'd still need some form of manual approval to >>>>>> ensure >>>>>> that the company bank account will be able bear the cost of the >>>>>> payment. >>>>>> I've been on projects where we have implemented automatic Purchase >>>>>> Order/Goods Received Note(GRN) and payment voucher generation for >>>>>> purchase >>>>>> orders so I know there are businesses out there that do use it. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks >>>>>> Sharan >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Chris Snow-3 wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> If I receive enter a purchase invoice into ofbiz when I receive a >>>>>>> vendors >>>>>>> invoice, I have to: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - raise the purchase invoice >>>>>>> - raise an outgoing payment and apply to the purchase invoice. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Is it possible to combine the steps, i.e. raising the invoice and >>>>>>> automatically generate the payment for the invoice and apply it to >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> invoice? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Many thanks in advance, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Chri >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> >> >> > > -- > View this message in context: > http://www.nabble.com/purchase-invoice-payment-tp25707448p25734676.html > Sent from the OFBiz - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > -- Chris Snow - CEng MBCS CITP MBA (Tech Mgmt) (Open) CISSP Tel: 01453 890660 Mob: 07944 880950 Www: www.snowconsulting.co.uk |
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Hi Chris
You're asking me a 'how long is a piece of string?' question. It really depends on what you want to do with accounting. I'd say the trunk is looking better accounting – wise because they've added quite a bits of new accounting functionality since 9.04 - (bank accounts, cost centres, payment batches, accounting reports, commission runs etc). I think the question to ask yourself is - what are your critical business processes that link into accounting? Is your typical business a product oriented or a service oriented one? Does your company run capital projects that 'construct assets'? (A classic example of this is implementing a new IT system where you employ a project team to build your new system. Until the system is up and running it is classed as an 'asset under construction' so you'd need to financially track the capital expenditure against budget and cost centres. Then once it's completed it becomes like a 'fixed asset' and needs to be depreciated.) I know I'm digressing here but the point I want to make is that you need to start by looking at what processes the company needs, then look at OFBiz to see how that is implemented (or not). As a guide and at a very high level you could be looking at: Order to Cash (Sales Order Cycles) Demand to Replenish (MRP etc) Procure to Pay (Purchasing Cycles) Manufacturing (Make to Stock / Make to Order) Thanks Sharan
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Hi Sharan,
My typical client at the moment does not use any of the OOTB components. All functionality is custom developed. I'm trying to understand what ofbiz can do OOTB so that I can start offering more to clients. Most of my clients are SME's, so I would ultimately expect ofbiz to run most of their business processes OOTB. Many thanks, Chris > > Hi Chris > > You're asking me a 'how long is a piece of string?' question. It really > depends on what you want to do with accounting. > > I'd say the trunk is looking better accounting â wise because they've > added > quite a bits of new accounting functionality since 9.04 - (bank accounts, > cost centres, payment batches, accounting reports, commission runs etc). > > I think the question to ask yourself is - what are your critical business > processes that link into accounting? Is your typical business a product > oriented or a service oriented one? > > Does your company run capital projects that 'construct assets'? (A classic > example of this is implementing a new IT system where you employ a project > team to build your new system. Until the system is up and running it is > classed as an 'asset under construction' so you'd need to financially > track > the capital expenditure against budget and cost centres. Then once it's > completed it becomes like a 'fixed asset' and needs to be depreciated.) > > I know I'm digressing here but the point I want to make is that you need > to > start by looking at what processes the company needs, then look at OFBiz > to > see how that is implemented (or not). > > As a guide and at a very high level you could be looking at: > > Order to Cash (Sales Order Cycles) > Demand to Replenish (MRP etc) > Procure to Pay (Purchasing Cycles) > Manufacturing (Make to Stock / Make to Order) > > Thanks > Sharan > > > Chris Snow-3 wrote: >> >> Hi Sharan, >> >> When you say that trunk is looking a lot better accounting-wise, am I >> right in thinking that 9.04 accounting is not ready for typical >> organisational accounting processes? How close is trunk to meeting the >> majority of company processes to be considered usable for accounting? >> >> Many thanks, >> >> Chris >> >>> >>> Hi Chris >>> >>> At the moment I use 9.04 but am helping to put together the online help >>> documentation for the latest trunk so have been trying to keep up with >>> the >>> changes happening there especially on the accounting side. >>> >>> I think the trunk is looking a lot better accounting-wise but I just >>> want >>> to >>> give it a thorough test to be able to understand the processes before I >>> think about moving versions. >>> >>> Jacques â On the business process story side I've mentioned to >>> David >>> that >>> it's something I'd like to contribute to but will finish the >>> accounting >>> documentation first so I get a fuller picture of whats what. >>> >>> Thanks >>> Sharan >>> >>> >>> jacques.le.roux wrote: >>>> >>>> This may turn helpful (since Sharan gave much guidance details) as a >>>> new >>>> business story in the library... >>>> >>>> Jacques >>>> >>>> From: "Chris Snow" <[hidden email]> >>>>> Hi Sharan, >>>>> >>>>> Which version of ofbiz do you normally prefer to go for? >>>>> >>>>> Many thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Chris >>>>> >>>>> Sharan-F wrote: >>>>>> Hi Chris >>>>>> >>>>>> No worries â I'm no OFBiz expert either and OFBiz was new to >>>>>> everyone at >>>>>> some point or other. >>>>>> >>>>>> The scenario you describe sounds like Indirect Purchasing so could >>>>>> be >>>>>> something like office supplies etc, rather than something that is >>>>>> directly >>>>>> part of a product or a product manufacturing process that will be on >>>>>> sold to >>>>>> customers. >>>>>> >>>>>> You're also talking about pre-payment here because you pay (via >>>>>> credit >>>>>> card) >>>>>> before the product itself gets delivered. A lot of purchasing >>>>>> processes >>>>>> have >>>>>> the product delivered first then they send the invoice and even then >>>>>> you >>>>>> get >>>>>> several days (or weeks or months!) in which to pay. >>>>>> >>>>>> It will probably depend on the number of these purchasing credit >>>>>> card >>>>>> transactions that will determine how you handle it. It there are a >>>>>> lot >>>>>> of >>>>>> them then you'd probably want to streamline it. >>>>>> What I've seen done before is an import of an electronic credit card >>>>>> statement where the payment is generated from the statement itself >>>>>> and >>>>>> then >>>>>> matched to the purchase invoice via reference numbers etc. >>>>>> >>>>>> Without knowing too much about your scope and thinking off the top >>>>>> of >>>>>> my >>>>>> head you could put something together that could create the payment >>>>>> automatically but you still might need some way to track the company >>>>>> credit >>>>>> card transactions like you would a bank account. You'd probably >>>>>> want >>>>>> to >>>>>> track the credit limit for the card since you dont want the employee >>>>>> to >>>>>> spend $1001 when the credit card limit it $1000.You may also want >>>>>> to >>>>>> setup >>>>>> a GL account to mirror the credit card transactions in the General >>>>>> Ledger >>>>>> for reconciliation and accounting purposes. >>>>>> >>>>>> Not sure if this helps much but hopefully someone else may respond >>>>>> with >>>>>> other ideas too. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks >>>>>> Sharan >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Chris Snow-3 wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Sharan, >>>>>>> Many thanks for the detailed reply. >>>>>>> The type of scenario I was thinking about was where a company >>>>>>> employee >>>>>>> purchases a consumable product using company credit card. >>>>>>> The company is a small business and does not need a purchase order >>>>>>> approval process. I was thinking that because the payment >>>>>>> has already been made by credit card, having the payment as a >>>>>>> separate >>>>>>> step in ofbiz makes the process quite cumbersome. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I apologize if my questions (and usage of ofbiz) seem stupid! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Many thanks, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sharan-F wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Chris >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm not sure that you can automate a payment in this way in OFBiz >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> I'm >>>>>>>> not sure from a business perspective that you would want to take >>>>>>>> out >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> manual creation of payments to suppliers (since effectively you're >>>>>>>> taking >>>>>>>> out key verification / approval step). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> OFBiz can generate the purchase invoice for you if you use Order >>>>>>>> Entry >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> enter a Purchase Order to a supplier, then when you receive the >>>>>>>> purchase >>>>>>>> order products Ofbiz will generate a 'pro forma' invoice (which >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> layman's >>>>>>>> terms is 'draft Purchase Invoice' based on the Purchase Order.) so >>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>> contain the same costs and taxes as the original purchase order. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> When the real Purchase Invoice arrives you can enter any >>>>>>>> adjustments >>>>>>>> (eg >>>>>>>> perhaps they gave you a discount or there was a price increase >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>> werent aware of) and update the pro forma invoice so that it is >>>>>>>> correct, >>>>>>>> then you can approve it and pay it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I suppose similar to the 'pro forma invoice' concept you could >>>>>>>> create >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> 'pro >>>>>>>> forma payment' but you'd still need some form of manual approval >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> ensure >>>>>>>> that the company bank account will be able bear the cost of the >>>>>>>> payment. >>>>>>>> I've been on projects where we have implemented automatic Purchase >>>>>>>> Order/Goods Received Note(GRN) and payment voucher generation for >>>>>>>> purchase >>>>>>>> orders so I know there are businesses out there that do use it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>> Sharan >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Chris Snow-3 wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If I receive enter a purchase invoice into ofbiz when I receive a >>>>>>>>> vendors >>>>>>>>> invoice, I have to: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> - raise the purchase invoice >>>>>>>>> - raise an outgoing payment and apply to the purchase invoice. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Is it possible to combine the steps, i.e. raising the invoice and >>>>>>>>> automatically generate the payment for the invoice and apply it >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> invoice? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Many thanks in advance, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Chri >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> View this message in context: >>> http://www.nabble.com/purchase-invoice-payment-tp25707448p25734676.html >>> Sent from the OFBiz - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Chris Snow - CEng MBCS CITP MBA (Tech Mgmt) (Open) CISSP >> >> Tel: 01453 890660 >> Mob: 07944 880950 >> Www: www.snowconsulting.co.uk >> >> > > -- > View this message in context: > http://www.nabble.com/purchase-invoice-payment-tp25707448p25736128.html > Sent from the OFBiz - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > -- Chris Snow - CEng MBCS CITP MBA (Tech Mgmt) (Open) CISSP Tel: 01453 890660 Mob: 07944 880950 Www: www.snowconsulting.co.uk |
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Hi Chris
I didnt realise that you are looking at implementing Ofbiz for your customers rather than yourself. Doing it for other people adds another level of complexity. You need to be able to analyse their requirements and needs then translate that into what OFBiz can give them. I think if you're expecting a 'one system fits all' type solution then I think you'll be disappointed. I've spent over 10 years working on ERP implementations in different industries and in the cases where they used the same package, the setup and configuration was always different because of their business processes. Thanks Sharan
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Hi Sharan,
I didn't really explain myself very well... On my current project I'm not using any OOTB components except for party management. I'm really just doing custom development using ofbiz as a development framework only. This works fine for the current project because I'm constrained to use their legacy data structures until the legacy system is completely replaced with an ofbiz application. In my spare time, I'm trying to understand at a fairly detailed level what ofbiz offers OOTB so that in future projects I can use more of the ofbiz OOTB processes rather than developing everything from scratch. I appreciate that learning something as complex as the ofbiz OOTB components could take very many months, but I am getting the feeling that I should have focused on learning an open erp system that is better documented and more stable (trunk functionality is advancing very quickly) as both of these factors are making the learning process very slow! As a side, I was intending to use ofbiz as an accounting (and erp) package for my small consultancy company to gain more experience of ofbiz (even though this is overkill). BTW, I am really grateful for the level of help and feedback you are giving. Many thanks, Chris > > Hi Chris > > I didnt realise that you are looking at implementing Ofbiz for your > customers rather than yourself. Doing it for other people adds another > level > of complexity. You need to be able to analyse their requirements and needs > then translate that into what OFBiz can give them. > > I think if you're expecting a 'one system fits all' type solution then I > think you'll be disappointed. I've spent over 10 years working on ERP > implementations in different industries and in the cases where they used > the > same package, the setup and configuration was always different because of > their business processes. > > Thanks > Sharan > > > Chris Snow-3 wrote: >> >> Hi Sharan, >> >> My typical client at the moment does not use any of the OOTB components. >> All functionality is custom developed. I'm trying to understand what >> ofbiz can do OOTB so that I can start offering more to clients. >> >> Most of my clients are SME's, so I would ultimately expect ofbiz to run >> most of their business processes OOTB. >> >> Many thanks, >> >> Chris >> >>> >>> Hi Chris >>> >>> You're asking me a 'how long is a piece of string?' question. It really >>> depends on what you want to do with accounting. >>> >>> I'd say the trunk is looking better accounting â wise because >>> they've >>> added >>> quite a bits of new accounting functionality since 9.04 - (bank >>> accounts, >>> cost centres, payment batches, accounting reports, commission runs >>> etc). >>> >>> I think the question to ask yourself is - what are your critical >>> business >>> processes that link into accounting? Is your typical business a >>> product >>> oriented or a service oriented one? >>> >>> Does your company run capital projects that 'construct assets'? (A >>> classic >>> example of this is implementing a new IT system where you employ a >>> project >>> team to build your new system. Until the system is up and running it >>> is >>> classed as an 'asset under construction' so you'd need to financially >>> track >>> the capital expenditure against budget and cost centres. Then once >>> it's >>> completed it becomes like a 'fixed asset' and needs to be depreciated.) >>> >>> I know I'm digressing here but the point I want to make is that you >>> need >>> to >>> start by looking at what processes the company needs, then look at >>> OFBiz >>> to >>> see how that is implemented (or not). >>> >>> As a guide and at a very high level you could be looking at: >>> >>> Order to Cash (Sales Order Cycles) >>> Demand to Replenish (MRP etc) >>> Procure to Pay (Purchasing Cycles) >>> Manufacturing (Make to Stock / Make to Order) >>> >>> Thanks >>> Sharan >>> >>> >>> Chris Snow-3 wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Sharan, >>>> >>>> When you say that trunk is looking a lot better accounting-wise, am I >>>> right in thinking that 9.04 accounting is not ready for typical >>>> organisational accounting processes? How close is trunk to meeting >>>> the >>>> majority of company processes to be considered usable for accounting? >>>> >>>> Many thanks, >>>> >>>> Chris >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hi Chris >>>>> >>>>> At the moment I use 9.04 but am helping to put together the online >>>>> help >>>>> documentation for the latest trunk so have been trying to keep up >>>>> with >>>>> the >>>>> changes happening there especially on the accounting side. >>>>> >>>>> I think the trunk is looking a lot better accounting-wise but I just >>>>> want >>>>> to >>>>> give it a thorough test to be able to understand the processes before >>>>> I >>>>> think about moving versions. >>>>> >>>>> Jacques âÃÂàOn the business process story side I've >>>>> mentioned to >>>>> David >>>>> that >>>>> it's something I'd like to contribute to but will finish the >>>>> accounting >>>>> documentation first so I get a fuller picture of whats what. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks >>>>> Sharan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> jacques.le.roux wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> This may turn helpful (since Sharan gave much guidance details) as a >>>>>> new >>>>>> business story in the library... >>>>>> >>>>>> Jacques >>>>>> >>>>>> From: "Chris Snow" <[hidden email]> >>>>>>> Hi Sharan, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Which version of ofbiz do you normally prefer to go for? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Many thanks, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sharan-F wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi Chris >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> No worries âÃÂàI'm no OFBiz expert either and OFBiz was >>>>>>>> new to >>>>>>>> everyone at >>>>>>>> some point or other. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The scenario you describe sounds like Indirect Purchasing so could >>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>> something like office supplies etc, rather than something that is >>>>>>>> directly >>>>>>>> part of a product or a product manufacturing process that will be >>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>> sold to >>>>>>>> customers. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You're also talking about pre-payment here because you pay (via >>>>>>>> credit >>>>>>>> card) >>>>>>>> before the product itself gets delivered. A lot of purchasing >>>>>>>> processes >>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>> the product delivered first then they send the invoice and even >>>>>>>> then >>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>> several days (or weeks or months!) in which to pay. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It will probably depend on the number of these purchasing credit >>>>>>>> card >>>>>>>> transactions that will determine how you handle it. It there are a >>>>>>>> lot >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> them then you'd probably want to streamline it. >>>>>>>> What I've seen done before is an import of an electronic credit >>>>>>>> card >>>>>>>> statement where the payment is generated from the statement itself >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> then >>>>>>>> matched to the purchase invoice via reference numbers etc. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Without knowing too much about your scope and thinking off the top >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>> head you could put something together that could create the >>>>>>>> payment >>>>>>>> automatically but you still might need some way to track the >>>>>>>> company >>>>>>>> credit >>>>>>>> card transactions like you would a bank account. You'd probably >>>>>>>> want >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> track the credit limit for the card since you dont want the >>>>>>>> employee >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> spend $1001 when the credit card limit it $1000.You may also want >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> setup >>>>>>>> a GL account to mirror the credit card transactions in the General >>>>>>>> Ledger >>>>>>>> for reconciliation and accounting purposes. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Not sure if this helps much but hopefully someone else may respond >>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>> other ideas too. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>> Sharan >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Chris Snow-3 wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi Sharan, >>>>>>>>> Many thanks for the detailed reply. >>>>>>>>> The type of scenario I was thinking about was where a company >>>>>>>>> employee >>>>>>>>> purchases a consumable product using company credit card. >>>>>>>>> The company is a small business and does not need a purchase >>>>>>>>> order >>>>>>>>> approval process. I was thinking that because the payment >>>>>>>>> has already been made by credit card, having the payment as a >>>>>>>>> separate >>>>>>>>> step in ofbiz makes the process quite cumbersome. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I apologize if my questions (and usage of ofbiz) seem stupid! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Many thanks, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sharan-F wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi Chris >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I'm not sure that you can automate a payment in this way in >>>>>>>>>> OFBiz >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> I'm >>>>>>>>>> not sure from a business perspective that you would want to take >>>>>>>>>> out >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> manual creation of payments to suppliers (since effectively >>>>>>>>>> you're >>>>>>>>>> taking >>>>>>>>>> out key verification / approval step). >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> OFBiz can generate the purchase invoice for you if you use Order >>>>>>>>>> Entry >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> enter a Purchase Order to a supplier, then when you receive >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> purchase >>>>>>>>>> order products Ofbiz will generate a 'pro forma' invoice (which >>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>> layman's >>>>>>>>>> terms is 'draft Purchase Invoice' based on the Purchase Order.) >>>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>> contain the same costs and taxes as the original purchase order. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> When the real Purchase Invoice arrives you can enter any >>>>>>>>>> adjustments >>>>>>>>>> (eg >>>>>>>>>> perhaps they gave you a discount or there was a price increase >>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>> werent aware of) and update the pro forma invoice so that it is >>>>>>>>>> correct, >>>>>>>>>> then you can approve it and pay it. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I suppose similar to the 'pro forma invoice' concept you could >>>>>>>>>> create >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> 'pro >>>>>>>>>> forma payment' but you'd still need some form of manual approval >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> ensure >>>>>>>>>> that the company bank account will be able bear the cost of the >>>>>>>>>> payment. >>>>>>>>>> I've been on projects where we have implemented automatic >>>>>>>>>> Purchase >>>>>>>>>> Order/Goods Received Note(GRN) and payment voucher generation >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> purchase >>>>>>>>>> orders so I know there are businesses out there that do use it. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>>>> Sharan >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Chris Snow-3 wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> If I receive enter a purchase invoice into ofbiz when I receive >>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>> vendors >>>>>>>>>>> invoice, I have to: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> - raise the purchase invoice >>>>>>>>>>> - raise an outgoing payment and apply to the purchase invoice. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Is it possible to combine the steps, i.e. raising the invoice >>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> automatically generate the payment for the invoice and apply it >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> invoice? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Many thanks in advance, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Chri >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> View this message in context: >>>>> http://www.nabble.com/purchase-invoice-payment-tp25707448p25734676.html >>>>> Sent from the OFBiz - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Chris Snow - CEng MBCS CITP MBA (Tech Mgmt) (Open) CISSP >>>> >>>> Tel: 01453 890660 >>>> Mob: 07944 880950 >>>> Www: www.snowconsulting.co.uk >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> View this message in context: >>> http://www.nabble.com/purchase-invoice-payment-tp25707448p25736128.html >>> Sent from the OFBiz - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Chris Snow - CEng MBCS CITP MBA (Tech Mgmt) (Open) CISSP >> >> Tel: 01453 890660 >> Mob: 07944 880950 >> Www: www.snowconsulting.co.uk >> >> > > -- > View this message in context: > http://www.nabble.com/purchase-invoice-payment-tp25707448p25742012.html > Sent from the OFBiz - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > -- Chris Snow - CEng MBCS CITP MBA (Tech Mgmt) (Open) CISSP Tel: 01453 890660 Mob: 07944 880950 Www: www.snowconsulting.co.uk |
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Hi Chris
OK – I see where you're coming from now. This is my experience – I also run a consultancy business and early last year I tried to set it up using OFBiz for accounting and gave up because it was too hard and cumbersome. It's not a criticism its just what happened. My personal view is that OFBiz isnt designed to be a stand alone accounting package – I think it's more designed to be integrated with a Sales Process or a Manufacturing Process etc. (I'm happy to hear about anyone else's view on this too....) That being said...I currently use 9.04 and run 'bits of accounting' because it doesnt have all the functionality I need. A really big one is around setting up time based regular or recurring transactions. I know OFBiz has the functionality to do this (eg. 'the send me this product every month as part of the shopping list') – but it hasnt been added to accounting yet and there may be a good reason why. Anyway some ideas for using OFBiz for a consultancy business are as follows: Manual Simple System Entry So you manually create your Sales Invoices / Purchase Invoices Depending on which version you run you may have to manually add your VAT too. Manually create payments you receive and send. Project Manager / Accounting Integration You can use Project Manager to setup your client projects Fill in a weekly timesheet to log against the projects you are working on Setup your hourly, daily billing rate for the client Project Manager keeps track of the time logged then you can automatically generate a Sales Invoice based on the time logged Project Manager has some nice OOTB functionality so that you can give your clients a login so that they can see only their projects and track progress, time logged and invoices etc. You can also integrate the Customer Request functionality – so that your customer can log in and raise a request or job ticket then you can create a task for it or add it to an existing project. You'll probably find that the process flow for Customer Requests OOTB needs a small tweak though. Setting up your GL – you'll probably need only about 20 accounts at a guess. You could also setup Fixed Assets – computer, laptop etc so you can do depreciation. You might have to add a depreciation calculation as the demo ones tend to be the US based ones. Anyway – good luck and I hope this gives you a idea of what can be done. Thanks Sharan
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