Re: [OFBiz] Users - Remove OFBiz 3.0.0 and 2.* series downloads?
Posted by David E. Jones on Nov 11, 2005; 9:16pm
URL: http://ofbiz.116.s1.nabble.com/OFBiz-Users-Remove-OFBiz-3-0-0-and-2-series-downloads-tp136382p136387.html
I have removed the old downloads from the SourceForge.net site for
OFBiz. OFBiz is still listed there as it has always been. In place of
typical downloads there is now a small PDF document entitled Getting
and Using OFBiz. This document talks about the OFBiz community,
getting from SVN, and the idea behind Sequoia.
On the Sequoia site there is one clarification that I would
appreciate. It does mention OFBiz clearly and that is great, but the
confusion I get from reading the home page is that it appears to be
an extension of OFBiz, ie a project dedicated to adding features to
OFBiz and operating as a separate project. If that's the case I think
it's a problem, but of course I have no say in it. Either way it
should be clarified. In other words, adding text that makes it clear
that the purpose of Sequoia ERP is to maintain releases including
back patches of bug fixes and release points and such that can be
easily referenced, but that is not meant to have functionality in
addition to OFBiz. That seams to be a remaining confusion.
For Neogia, that really is a separate project from OFBiz and is
basically a bunch of extensions licensed under the GPL. Si Chen is
doing a good job of marketing Sequoia and making it easier for end-
users who don't need what direct SVN access has to offer to use some
version of OFBiz. Neogia is a different story and while based on many
things in OFBiz they have chosen to compete with the project in
building out new areas instead of participating in OFBiz (evidently
this is required for their funding model).
The Open Travel System and Open eGovernment sites (efforts maintained
by Hans Bakker) are different as well. These are open add-ons to
OFBiz (in the specialized directory of the ofbiz SVN repository) and
sub-communities focused on a particular industry, in this case travel
and government.
It would be nice if other sites would clarify their position more
relative to OFBiz so that people can more easily find out what they
are and decide what they need/want, but it really isn't technically a
part of OFBiz so all we can do is offer feedback to them. Fortunately
some, like Si and Hans, are very open and are doing a great job and
have been great to work with. There is certainly a need for efforts
like this as the OFBiz world is extremely large and diverse and to
organize and build up any part of it requires quite a bit of effort,
which is where these things come in. The way that things are going
with Sequoia and OpenTravelSystem are great and really of value to
the project. Other projects like Neogia are still of value to the
OFBiz community because they are doing a lot of stuff and using
certain parts of OFBiz, and contribute little things fairly often in
those areas. Unfortunately in many other areas they have decided not
to work with others in the project and to go their own way, and they
are certainly within their rights and such to do so, and hopefully it
will work out well for them. On the other hand, hopefully the areas
in OFBiz that are catching up to and going beyond what they have
added will compete well and the result of user confusion will favor
OFBiz, putting more resources into the core project instead of
elsewhere...
-David
On Nov 9, 2005, at 4:54 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
> To all,
> an interesting discussion going on here :-)
>
> my 2 cents on this:
>
> - The way SequoiaERP is marketed is attracting many people to ofbiz
> and Si
> does a great job on that
> - weekly builds and stable release are needed for a erp-system
> and it is
> Si who does that job. Thanks!
> - The delisting from sourceforge didnt help ofbiz's popularity.
> - The more distributions the more confusing it is for the customer!
> You
> can watch that on the linux side. Microsoft is laughing while the
> linux
> world is diversifying instead of concentrating powers. A solution
> to this
> problem is not insight and the tendency is that there are more
> distributions will pop up and vanish in time.
> - OFBIZ has been going in this direction allready with
> www.opentravelsystem.org and www.openegovernment.org. However it seems
> that the sequoiaerp has attracted more market attention than the
> other to
> sites.
>
> I see a improvment if some of the following things could be achieved
>
> - Remove any of the 3.0.0 links!!!!
> - have one organisational identity framework that is used by ofbiz and
> distri's
> www.opentravelsystem.org and www.openegovernment.org come close to
> that
> approach. However it seems that the sites dont attract as many as
> those
> sites of www.sequoiaerp.org
> - relauch ofbiz.sourceforge.org to maintain the releases, answer
> questions
> to release schedules and (sequoiaerp, neogia.... is than handeld as
> a copy
> or maybe a fork of those releases)
> - Have ofbiz point to the sourceforge for distri's and explain why
> there
> are distri's
> - Have the distri's point out the differences from ofbiz.org and
> link to
> ofbiz.org
>
> The last two points are allready there but there isnt much textual
> explantion around it. That could be improved
> The point regarding an "organisational identity framework" is a
> marketing
> problem. The current identity has been developed by David and Andy I
> guess!? Maybe its time to revamp that in a community effort? With
> the goal
> in mind that it needs to be extensible for distri's (The penguin
> image for
> example does play that role in linux distri's)
>
> This would give the project a more professional 3 level structure:
>
> 1. CORE TEAM: development site www.ofbiz.org just pointing to the
> Release
> site
> 2. RELEASES TEAM: Releases http://sourceforge.net/projects/ofbiz
> pointing
> back to ofbiz and distributions
> 3. DISTRIBUTIONS/MODIFICATIONS: Distributions Sites like neogia,
> sequoia,
> opentravelsystem.... point just back to the release site
>
> As far as I know this is the way SAP is maintained internally but they
> have a supirior automatism to transport the changes from on
> codebase to
> the other. But the paradigma is the same.
>
> Paralell there should be a founding of a OFBIZ Group based on the
> model of
> the JBOSS Group.
>
> I really feel that ofbiz demand will exploede in the next 18 month.
> The
> comparison discussion with compiere is a indicator for that.
>
> Wishes are nice and I know those points consume alot of time.
>
> Michael
>
> [hidden email] wrote on 09.11.2005 11:40:09:
>
>> I too think we should stress the attention over the fact that
>> OFBiz and
>> SequoiaERP are complementary projects: the former is oriented to
>> development, the latter is end-user oriented.
>>
>> So removing the links to the OFBiz-3.0.0 release is a good think
>> (also
>> the concept of an OFBiz release is really no more needed).
>>
>> Also, maybe I'm playing with words, but I'd stress more attention
>> over
>> the fact that SequoiaERP is the OFBiz distribution instead of a
>> product
>> based on OFBiz.
>> In my opinion, this would help clarify things to users.
>>
>> Jacopo
>>
>>
>> Si Chen wrote:
>>> David,
>>>
>>> I think this is a good idea. Perhaps on the sourceforge.net site
>>> for
>>> ofbiz there could be a news item for where to get the latest
>>> release.
>>>
>>> I also updated the sequoiaerp.org home page to put in the link to
>>> ofbiz.org. I've tried to make the relationship as clear as possible
> and
>>> also point developers to ofbiz.org. Can you suggest any other place
> for
>>> me to put this kind of information? I'm happy to add it.
>>>
>>> Last of all--this is a personal observation--I would really
>>> appreciate
>
>>> it if people post their questions to the mailing lists or forums or
>>> somewhere public, so we can all help out and also all see these
> things.
>>> I think this is also standard for many open source projects. I
>>> don't
>>> know why people think they can get priority support by writing
>>> one of
> us
>>> directly.
>>>
>>> Si
>>>
>>> Firas A. wrote:
>>>
>>>> On OFBiz and Sequoia...
>>>>
>>>> I totally agree with David. The other day I was about to post a
> question
>>>> asking about the difference between the two.
>>>>
>>>> </Firas>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: [hidden email]
>>>> [mailto:[hidden email]]
>>>> On Behalf Of David E. Jones
>>>> Sent: den 8 november 2005 18:37
>>>> To: OFBiz Users / Usage Discussion
>>>> Subject: [OFBiz] Users - Remove OFBiz 3.0.0 and 2.* series
>>>> downloads?
>>>>
>>>> This has been a problem for a long time and perhaps now would be a
>>>> good time
>>>> to solve it with 2 communities emerging. Those that want a download
> to
>>>> use
>>>> as is can now use Sequoia, and those that want to participate in
>>>> development
>>>> or want the latest and greatest can use OFBiz.
>>>>
>>>> So, I am voting for the option of removing the old OFBiz
>>>> downloads as
>
>>>> they
>>>> just waste the time of those who try them and our time as we get
>>>> questions
>>>> about them...
>>>>
>>>> Also for Si: I'd REALLY appreciate more clarification, right up
>>>> front
>
>>>> on the
>>>> home page and in various other places too, that Sequoia is based on
> OFBiz
>>>> and the two communities are targeted to users as I describe
>>>> above. I
>>>> am also
>>>> a little tired of getting all sorts of email about this and
> describing
>>>> over
>>>> and over what OFBiz and Sequoia are and what the intention is. In
> other
>>>> words, without this it is VERY confusing to people! I got an email
> today
>>>> asking questions about Sequoia documentation since I wrote the
>>>> OFBiz
>>>> Basic
>>>> Production Setup Guide... in other words people are having a hard
> time
>>>> figuring out what all this stuff means.
>>>>
>>>> -David
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Users mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Users mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Users mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users
_______________________________________________
Users mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users
URL: http://ofbiz.116.s1.nabble.com/OFBiz-Users-Remove-OFBiz-3-0-0-and-2-series-downloads-tp136382p136387.html
I have removed the old downloads from the SourceForge.net site for
OFBiz. OFBiz is still listed there as it has always been. In place of
typical downloads there is now a small PDF document entitled Getting
and Using OFBiz. This document talks about the OFBiz community,
getting from SVN, and the idea behind Sequoia.
On the Sequoia site there is one clarification that I would
appreciate. It does mention OFBiz clearly and that is great, but the
confusion I get from reading the home page is that it appears to be
an extension of OFBiz, ie a project dedicated to adding features to
OFBiz and operating as a separate project. If that's the case I think
it's a problem, but of course I have no say in it. Either way it
should be clarified. In other words, adding text that makes it clear
that the purpose of Sequoia ERP is to maintain releases including
back patches of bug fixes and release points and such that can be
easily referenced, but that is not meant to have functionality in
addition to OFBiz. That seams to be a remaining confusion.
For Neogia, that really is a separate project from OFBiz and is
basically a bunch of extensions licensed under the GPL. Si Chen is
doing a good job of marketing Sequoia and making it easier for end-
users who don't need what direct SVN access has to offer to use some
version of OFBiz. Neogia is a different story and while based on many
things in OFBiz they have chosen to compete with the project in
building out new areas instead of participating in OFBiz (evidently
this is required for their funding model).
The Open Travel System and Open eGovernment sites (efforts maintained
by Hans Bakker) are different as well. These are open add-ons to
OFBiz (in the specialized directory of the ofbiz SVN repository) and
sub-communities focused on a particular industry, in this case travel
and government.
It would be nice if other sites would clarify their position more
relative to OFBiz so that people can more easily find out what they
are and decide what they need/want, but it really isn't technically a
part of OFBiz so all we can do is offer feedback to them. Fortunately
some, like Si and Hans, are very open and are doing a great job and
have been great to work with. There is certainly a need for efforts
like this as the OFBiz world is extremely large and diverse and to
organize and build up any part of it requires quite a bit of effort,
which is where these things come in. The way that things are going
with Sequoia and OpenTravelSystem are great and really of value to
the project. Other projects like Neogia are still of value to the
OFBiz community because they are doing a lot of stuff and using
certain parts of OFBiz, and contribute little things fairly often in
those areas. Unfortunately in many other areas they have decided not
to work with others in the project and to go their own way, and they
are certainly within their rights and such to do so, and hopefully it
will work out well for them. On the other hand, hopefully the areas
in OFBiz that are catching up to and going beyond what they have
added will compete well and the result of user confusion will favor
OFBiz, putting more resources into the core project instead of
elsewhere...
-David
On Nov 9, 2005, at 4:54 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
> To all,
> an interesting discussion going on here :-)
>
> my 2 cents on this:
>
> - The way SequoiaERP is marketed is attracting many people to ofbiz
> and Si
> does a great job on that
> - weekly builds and stable release are needed for a erp-system
> and it is
> Si who does that job. Thanks!
> - The delisting from sourceforge didnt help ofbiz's popularity.
> - The more distributions the more confusing it is for the customer!
> You
> can watch that on the linux side. Microsoft is laughing while the
> linux
> world is diversifying instead of concentrating powers. A solution
> to this
> problem is not insight and the tendency is that there are more
> distributions will pop up and vanish in time.
> - OFBIZ has been going in this direction allready with
> www.opentravelsystem.org and www.openegovernment.org. However it seems
> that the sequoiaerp has attracted more market attention than the
> other to
> sites.
>
> I see a improvment if some of the following things could be achieved
>
> - Remove any of the 3.0.0 links!!!!
> - have one organisational identity framework that is used by ofbiz and
> distri's
> www.opentravelsystem.org and www.openegovernment.org come close to
> that
> approach. However it seems that the sites dont attract as many as
> those
> sites of www.sequoiaerp.org
> - relauch ofbiz.sourceforge.org to maintain the releases, answer
> questions
> to release schedules and (sequoiaerp, neogia.... is than handeld as
> a copy
> or maybe a fork of those releases)
> - Have ofbiz point to the sourceforge for distri's and explain why
> there
> are distri's
> - Have the distri's point out the differences from ofbiz.org and
> link to
> ofbiz.org
>
> The last two points are allready there but there isnt much textual
> explantion around it. That could be improved
> The point regarding an "organisational identity framework" is a
> marketing
> problem. The current identity has been developed by David and Andy I
> guess!? Maybe its time to revamp that in a community effort? With
> the goal
> in mind that it needs to be extensible for distri's (The penguin
> image for
> example does play that role in linux distri's)
>
> This would give the project a more professional 3 level structure:
>
> 1. CORE TEAM: development site www.ofbiz.org just pointing to the
> Release
> site
> 2. RELEASES TEAM: Releases http://sourceforge.net/projects/ofbiz
> pointing
> back to ofbiz and distributions
> 3. DISTRIBUTIONS/MODIFICATIONS: Distributions Sites like neogia,
> sequoia,
> opentravelsystem.... point just back to the release site
>
> As far as I know this is the way SAP is maintained internally but they
> have a supirior automatism to transport the changes from on
> codebase to
> the other. But the paradigma is the same.
>
> Paralell there should be a founding of a OFBIZ Group based on the
> model of
> the JBOSS Group.
>
> I really feel that ofbiz demand will exploede in the next 18 month.
> The
> comparison discussion with compiere is a indicator for that.
>
> Wishes are nice and I know those points consume alot of time.
>
> Michael
>
> [hidden email] wrote on 09.11.2005 11:40:09:
>
>> I too think we should stress the attention over the fact that
>> OFBiz and
>> SequoiaERP are complementary projects: the former is oriented to
>> development, the latter is end-user oriented.
>>
>> So removing the links to the OFBiz-3.0.0 release is a good think
>> (also
>> the concept of an OFBiz release is really no more needed).
>>
>> Also, maybe I'm playing with words, but I'd stress more attention
>> over
>> the fact that SequoiaERP is the OFBiz distribution instead of a
>> product
>> based on OFBiz.
>> In my opinion, this would help clarify things to users.
>>
>> Jacopo
>>
>>
>> Si Chen wrote:
>>> David,
>>>
>>> I think this is a good idea. Perhaps on the sourceforge.net site
>>> for
>>> ofbiz there could be a news item for where to get the latest
>>> release.
>>>
>>> I also updated the sequoiaerp.org home page to put in the link to
>>> ofbiz.org. I've tried to make the relationship as clear as possible
> and
>>> also point developers to ofbiz.org. Can you suggest any other place
> for
>>> me to put this kind of information? I'm happy to add it.
>>>
>>> Last of all--this is a personal observation--I would really
>>> appreciate
>
>>> it if people post their questions to the mailing lists or forums or
>>> somewhere public, so we can all help out and also all see these
> things.
>>> I think this is also standard for many open source projects. I
>>> don't
>>> know why people think they can get priority support by writing
>>> one of
> us
>>> directly.
>>>
>>> Si
>>>
>>> Firas A. wrote:
>>>
>>>> On OFBiz and Sequoia...
>>>>
>>>> I totally agree with David. The other day I was about to post a
> question
>>>> asking about the difference between the two.
>>>>
>>>> </Firas>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: [hidden email]
>>>> [mailto:[hidden email]]
>>>> On Behalf Of David E. Jones
>>>> Sent: den 8 november 2005 18:37
>>>> To: OFBiz Users / Usage Discussion
>>>> Subject: [OFBiz] Users - Remove OFBiz 3.0.0 and 2.* series
>>>> downloads?
>>>>
>>>> This has been a problem for a long time and perhaps now would be a
>>>> good time
>>>> to solve it with 2 communities emerging. Those that want a download
> to
>>>> use
>>>> as is can now use Sequoia, and those that want to participate in
>>>> development
>>>> or want the latest and greatest can use OFBiz.
>>>>
>>>> So, I am voting for the option of removing the old OFBiz
>>>> downloads as
>
>>>> they
>>>> just waste the time of those who try them and our time as we get
>>>> questions
>>>> about them...
>>>>
>>>> Also for Si: I'd REALLY appreciate more clarification, right up
>>>> front
>
>>>> on the
>>>> home page and in various other places too, that Sequoia is based on
> OFBiz
>>>> and the two communities are targeted to users as I describe
>>>> above. I
>>>> am also
>>>> a little tired of getting all sorts of email about this and
> describing
>>>> over
>>>> and over what OFBiz and Sequoia are and what the intention is. In
> other
>>>> words, without this it is VERY confusing to people! I got an email
> today
>>>> asking questions about Sequoia documentation since I wrote the
>>>> OFBiz
>>>> Basic
>>>> Production Setup Guide... in other words people are having a hard
> time
>>>> figuring out what all this stuff means.
>>>>
>>>> -David
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Users mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Users mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Users mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users
_______________________________________________
Users mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users
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