Re: Users - appreiciation and perspective was JOB _SANDBOX

Posted by BJ Freeman on
URL: http://ofbiz.116.s1.nabble.com/Users-JOB-SANDBOX-tp137182p137201.html

I have some of the same concerns, and have expressed them.
out of that Si came up with builds.

So I started with 3.0 then migrated to 3.1 and 3.2.
I have invested time and money in stabilizing the version I have. And I
developed a method to upgrade from the SVN. However I do not do this
with every update.

Thought clients pay me thousands of dollars to install and maintain
ofbiz for them, I still have not recouped my Cost.

Yet, I would not be this far, had it not be for the Core code that has
been developed, so my hats off.

Yes, I donate 10%, when A client pays me.

I would donate the code I use, but it does not follow the guidelines set
down.

David, andy and I may not see eye to eye, time to time, however I
respect and appreciate the effort they and other have contributed.




David E. Jones sent the following on 2/3/06 12:46 PM:

>
> On Feb 3, 2006, at 1:56 AM, Andrew Dupa wrote:
>
>> Well I guess I'll just work it out by reading the code and looking  at
>> the data model. My question was I thought pretty straight  forward,
>> unfortunately people responded without thinking.
>>
>> I was hoping this community would be smart and intelligent enough  to
>> support end users but they are it seems completely lost in a  world of
>> never ending development which never brings out the real  world
>> issues. No release management, no testing framework no  stability.
>> Users who don't read questions but answer with the  bleeding obvious.
>
>
> This, perhaps, comes from a misunderstanding of what OFBiz is. It is  
> clear that it isn't what you expected it to be, and that is the case  
> for many people who are used to purchasing a piece of software and  
> becoming a "user" of the software.
>
> In a community-oriented open source project like OFBiz it only exists  
> because the community drives it. There is no company involved. No  
> investment from venture capitalists or angels and no bank loans or  
> anything (well, except maybe American Express and various other  credit
> card and home equity lenders during slower periods... ;) ).
>
> That means that the dozens of people who contribute to the project on  a
> regular basis and the hundreds of people who use the software in  their
> jobs generally can't get involved, I mean really simply cannot  get
> involved, unless they find some work doing so. Andy and I  invested
> quite a bit early on in the project, but this is certainly  true of us.
> Neither of us (while I guess I'm not really sure about  Andy) have a net
> worth in the black and without money coming in from  consulting work,
> we'd be in trouble pretty quickly... Actually, it's  not so bad, if it
> weren't for my ex-wife I'd probably be working 1  week a month for pay,
> another week per month on the project, and then  spending the remaining
> time cruising the world on the BMW GS  adventure bike I've been craving
> for years...
>
> Anyway, back to the point. OFBiz is a community driven project. We  all
> get along as we can and help move the forward as we can, and to  date
> ALL significant contributions to the project have been impelled  mostly
> by making things easier and cheaper in the future for those  involved.
> Lots of people have wanted to help, but it is just too much  to do as an
> amateur (unless you have no need for an income... but  even then without
> a project driving requirements and understanding,  it is hard to get
> your head around).
>
> So, are there issues? Yeah. It sounds like you want to be involved  with
> the project as a casual user, and that's almost impossible with  OFBiz.
> If you aren't involved with the community and working  regularly with
> the project then you pretty much have to hire someone  who is involved
> with the community and has invested sufficiently to  be able to work
> well with it.
>
> How is that different from major ERP packages? For them a "release"  is
> the same as for us, and they have the same problem with testing as  we
> do (ie the moving target problem). For them a "release" or a  
> standardized version is mostly just a sales and marketing tool. Once  
> these systems are customized (or "installed") out of the box testing  
> (except for low level components... maybe that's why we have entity  
> engine unit tests but not much else?) is not very useful, unless they  
> maintain the tests in parallel with the customizations. They will  also
> have various patches and changes that bring their system to a  state of
> being a creation like that of the good Dr. Frankenstein:  some of the
> "version" they think they have, some of the next version  (but not all),
> and a bunch of changes that they alone are responsible  for maintaining.
>
> Eventually OFBiz may be more usable for those who want out of the box  
> use and no involvement whatsoever in the community, but it's not  there
> yet, and I've written that dozens of times (look at my blog,  the
> mailing lists, etc for all sorts of things along these lines).  Releases
> in OFBiz have historically just been marketing efforts. For  anyone
> doing customization it is a BAD BAD BAD idea to base it on a  release.
> That will effectively cut them off from interaction with the  community,
> and it will make it difficult to the point of "not worth  it" to
> contribute to the project. If everyone just used releases,  OFBiz would
> simply not exist.
>
> So, I'll say it again: if you aren't involved with the community or  
> interested in becoming involved then hire someone that is or you'll  be
> in pain for a long while. It's like "installation" SAP without any  
> help... not many do that and if they do they hire people with  
> experience to work on it. There are dozens of service provider  
> companies all around the world, but don't expect most of them to  
> advertise much in the OFBiz world. Most of the live sites and other  
> deployments of OFBiz are sold by the service provider, only a few  
> companies survive based on the references that come through the open  
> source project....
>
> Hopefully that's good enough for now... This sort of question comes  up
> a lot and I try to throw something like this out to the mailing  lists
> or somewhere every other month or so to make it easier to find.
>
> -David
>
>
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