Re: Users - appreiciation and perspective was JOB _SANDBOX

Posted by Jacques Le Roux on
URL: http://ofbiz.116.s1.nabble.com/Users-JOB-SANDBOX-tp137182p137202.html


From: "bjfree" <[hidden email]>


> I have some of the same concerns, and have expressed them.
> out of that Si came up with builds.
>
> So I started with 3.0 then migrated to 3.1 and 3.2.
> I have invested time and money in stabilizing the version I have. And I
> developed a method to upgrade from the SVN. However I do not do this
> with every update.
>
> Thought clients pay me thousands of dollars to install and maintain
> ofbiz for them, I still have not recouped my Cost.
>
> Yet, I would not be this far, had it not be for the Core code that has
> been developed, so my hats off.
>
> Yes, I donate 10%, when A client pays me.

That's great BJ, are you donating to Undersun ?

Jacques

> I would donate the code I use, but it does not follow the guidelines set
> down.
>
> David, andy and I may not see eye to eye, time to time, however I
> respect and appreciate the effort they and other have contributed.
>

Sure and I think you are not the only one !

Jacques

>
>
> David E. Jones sent the following on 2/3/06 12:46 PM:
> >
> > On Feb 3, 2006, at 1:56 AM, Andrew Dupa wrote:
> >
> >> Well I guess I'll just work it out by reading the code and looking  at
> >> the data model. My question was I thought pretty straight  forward,
> >> unfortunately people responded without thinking.
> >>
> >> I was hoping this community would be smart and intelligent enough  to
> >> support end users but they are it seems completely lost in a  world of
> >> never ending development which never brings out the real  world
> >> issues. No release management, no testing framework no  stability.
> >> Users who don't read questions but answer with the  bleeding obvious.
> >
> >
> > This, perhaps, comes from a misunderstanding of what OFBiz is. It is  
> > clear that it isn't what you expected it to be, and that is the case  
> > for many people who are used to purchasing a piece of software and  
> > becoming a "user" of the software.
> >
> > In a community-oriented open source project like OFBiz it only exists  
> > because the community drives it. There is no company involved. No  
> > investment from venture capitalists or angels and no bank loans or  
> > anything (well, except maybe American Express and various other  credit
> > card and home equity lenders during slower periods... ;) ).
> >
> > That means that the dozens of people who contribute to the project on  a
> > regular basis and the hundreds of people who use the software in  their
> > jobs generally can't get involved, I mean really simply cannot  get
> > involved, unless they find some work doing so. Andy and I  invested
> > quite a bit early on in the project, but this is certainly  true of us.
> > Neither of us (while I guess I'm not really sure about  Andy) have a net
> > worth in the black and without money coming in from  consulting work,
> > we'd be in trouble pretty quickly... Actually, it's  not so bad, if it
> > weren't for my ex-wife I'd probably be working 1  week a month for pay,
> > another week per month on the project, and then  spending the remaining
> > time cruising the world on the BMW GS  adventure bike I've been craving
> > for years...
> >
> > Anyway, back to the point. OFBiz is a community driven project. We  all
> > get along as we can and help move the forward as we can, and to  date
> > ALL significant contributions to the project have been impelled  mostly
> > by making things easier and cheaper in the future for those  involved.
> > Lots of people have wanted to help, but it is just too much  to do as an
> > amateur (unless you have no need for an income... but  even then without
> > a project driving requirements and understanding,  it is hard to get
> > your head around).
> >
> > So, are there issues? Yeah. It sounds like you want to be involved  with
> > the project as a casual user, and that's almost impossible with  OFBiz.
> > If you aren't involved with the community and working  regularly with
> > the project then you pretty much have to hire someone  who is involved
> > with the community and has invested sufficiently to  be able to work
> > well with it.
> >
> > How is that different from major ERP packages? For them a "release"  is
> > the same as for us, and they have the same problem with testing as  we
> > do (ie the moving target problem). For them a "release" or a  
> > standardized version is mostly just a sales and marketing tool. Once  
> > these systems are customized (or "installed") out of the box testing  
> > (except for low level components... maybe that's why we have entity  
> > engine unit tests but not much else?) is not very useful, unless they  
> > maintain the tests in parallel with the customizations. They will  also
> > have various patches and changes that bring their system to a  state of
> > being a creation like that of the good Dr. Frankenstein:  some of the
> > "version" they think they have, some of the next version  (but not all),
> > and a bunch of changes that they alone are responsible  for maintaining.
> >
> > Eventually OFBiz may be more usable for those who want out of the box  
> > use and no involvement whatsoever in the community, but it's not  there
> > yet, and I've written that dozens of times (look at my blog,  the
> > mailing lists, etc for all sorts of things along these lines).  Releases
> > in OFBiz have historically just been marketing efforts. For  anyone
> > doing customization it is a BAD BAD BAD idea to base it on a  release.
> > That will effectively cut them off from interaction with the  community,
> > and it will make it difficult to the point of "not worth  it" to
> > contribute to the project. If everyone just used releases,  OFBiz would
> > simply not exist.
> >
> > So, I'll say it again: if you aren't involved with the community or  
> > interested in becoming involved then hire someone that is or you'll  be
> > in pain for a long while. It's like "installation" SAP without any  
> > help... not many do that and if they do they hire people with  
> > experience to work on it. There are dozens of service provider  
> > companies all around the world, but don't expect most of them to  
> > advertise much in the OFBiz world. Most of the live sites and other  
> > deployments of OFBiz are sold by the service provider, only a few  
> > companies survive based on the references that come through the open  
> > source project....
> >
> > Hopefully that's good enough for now... This sort of question comes  up
> > a lot and I try to throw something like this out to the mailing  lists
> > or somewhere every other month or so to make it easier to find.
> >
> > -David
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >  
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>  
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