http://ofbiz.116.s1.nabble.com/Users-Updated-documentation-tp138178p138192.html
an it uses the complier that started before windows. It supports all
> I believe we should focus on developing tools (customized IDE) as much as
> documentation. Even if perfect documentation were to be available for OFBiz,
> a newbie would still have a very long ramp up time since
> 1. Documentation for something as complex as OFBiz won't be small.
> 2. The number of technologies need to be understood are a lot (Java,
> minilang, xml, html, javascript, widgets, ftl, ant etc). One has to know
> sufficiently about them in order to read the code and make even minor mods.
>
> The best example I have seen an IDE alleviate need for a lot of reading is
> Visual Studio which does a good job of making skeleton code for commonly
> used but complex tasks. NetBeans 5 has a very basic "code writing"
> capability for pure Java. And I understand that IntelliJ IDEA has some
> built-in capabilities for some popular frameworks. If we can get an IDE to
> build skeleton file/function structure for commonly used items, it would go
> a long way to speed up newbies and may even increase efficiency of experts.
>
> Regards,
> Vinay Agarwal
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
[hidden email] [mailto:
[hidden email]]
> On Behalf Of Adrian Crum
> Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 11:12 AM
> To: OFBiz Users / Usage Discussion
> Subject: Re: [OFBiz] Users - Updated documentation ...
>
> I like this idea BJ, but online help only works after the installation is
> running. It's good to mention this though, because it would be nice to have
> an
> online help system reference the "official" documentation (in whatever form
> it
> becomes) once the installation is running.
>
> Take the database questions that come up frequently as an example. On the
> mailing list, users are referred to the Webtools page, Wiki, past mailings,
> etc.
> Let's say that information is collected and distilled into the OFBiz
> documentation. If someone is setting up a new installation and OFBiz won't
> start
> because of DB issues, then an online help system won't be of much use. They
> will
> have to access the documentation in some other way. Once the system is up
> and
> running, clicking on Help from the Webtools page would take them to the same
> DB
> documentation they referenced earlier.
>
>
> BJ Freeman wrote:
>
>
>>David I agree with the site you have, even as a commercial venture.
>>However I believe there should be division between the code that
>>supports the site and the data in the site.
>>
>>I ask about a help framework earlier, that this would answer. However it
>>is not to duplicate your data, but to put user specific help based on my
>>modification. I doubt my help files would be an any interest, unless my
>>mods are being used.
>>
>>Now if you feel that part of the cost could be re-coupled for the code
>>segment, then I believe that should be separate from the actual support
>>site you maintain.
>>
>>Maybe the Code could be such that all but the localize help would go to
>>your site.
>>
>>Just some thoughts.
>>
>>David E. Jones sent the following on 3/29/06 10:29 AM:
>>
>>
>>>This does bring up an interesting discussion point: how should we manage
>
> end-user oriented documentation (and other documentation too...)?
>
>>>Notice that I did _not_ ask what would everyone like to see in the
>
> documentation... that is a moot point without a way to go about getting it
> in place. I'd rather not talk about that as it has been discussed quite a
> bit, it confuses the point of how to get things done and who will do them,
> and often leads to blaming those who have contributed to OFBiz for not
> contributing even more.
>
>>>The eventual form of the documentation is another problem, made more
>
> difficult by the fact that depending on how you look at it there are either
> many targets or one moving target to go after...
>
>>>The Undersun documentation site is something Andy and I started pushing a
>
> while back and is built (mostly by Al Byers) on the OFBiz content component.
> The actual content (images and text) are maintained and mostly written by
> Les who is a technical writer we are contracting with to maintain it.
>
>>>This is commercial rather than collaborative in nature because
>
> collaborative attempts in the past at OFBiz documentation have failed so
> completely that nothing has been written except isolated pockets of
> documentation (including the "official" documentation on the ofbiz.org site)
> that we not only don't get many (or any) contributions, but we almost never
> even get feedback on the documentation.
>
>>>I think this is largely by the nature of documentation. When most people
>
> say they want "documentation" what they really want is understanding of the
> software either technical or business and end user level. The hope of
> documentation is to get people to those points of understanding as quickly
> as possible, but initially even seeing the size of the documentation and the
> options available can be a serious "gumption trap". For a great discussion
> on gumption traps I recommend the book "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle
> Maintenance" by Robert Pirsig.
>
>>>Anyway, back the real issue...
>>>
>>>My hope with the Undersun site is that it would become more collaborative.
>
> Those who are interested in contributing have been given free accounts to
> the site. We have a nearly full-time technical writer on contract to help
> maintain the information so that it can hopefully remain more consistent and
> better controlled.
>
>>>If people object to the commercial nature of it, ie we charge for access
>
> to the site on a subscription basis, then that's fine. If there are other
> alternative it would be great. So far the site is not profitable, not even
> close to profitable. In fact, Andy and I subsidize the site pretty heavily
> in hopes that someday it will pay for itself, and in the mean time we
> believe it is important to the success of OFBiz to have end-user oriented
> documentation, and so we continue to invest what little we can in it.
>
>>>I would appreciate any feedback anyone might have. In general it would
>
> also be great to see more invested in this and other documentation efforts
> as it is one of a few areas of OFBiz that could use some work.
>
>>>-David
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Ian Gilbert wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Hi All,
>>>>
>>>>I'm glad they are popular :) I am happy to release these under any
>
> license but I'm not sure that
>
>>>>this will have the desired effect. My reasoning is that the development
>
> community (that this doc
>
>>>>is not really targeted at) has a range of resources to pull information
>
> from (wiki, production
>
>>>>guide, mailing lists, intro docs on the Open Source Strategies site, the
>
> Undersun Consulting docs
>
>>>>etc.,) but most of my users are non tech and would simply get lost in the
>
> information. Indeed
>
>>>>they would not even consider contributing back and probably would have
>
> difficulties understanding
>
>>>>the concept. Certainly there would be hurdles to stop them (I cannot see
>
> them using Jira for
>
>>>>example although I can see them deluging me with the same emails a few
>
> hundred times). There is
>
>>>>not too much user orientated resource available at the moment but this is
>
> understandable because
>
>>>>the type of business user who has got involved in the project so far have
>
> all had a considerable
>
>>>>technical ability and inclination.
>>>>
>>>>We have quite a high turnover of people at ES and so it made a lot of
>
> sense to write some form of
>
>>>>training or user reference doc simply to reduce the amount of time that I
>
> was spending with people
>
>>>>on the same questions. I think that there is still lots to do on this
>
> (similar books run to 5-600
>
>>>>pages in the shops so I'm not going to stop now ;) Granted I've skipped
>
> the traditional
>
>>>>'Introduction to the Internet' which most of them have (don't worry guys
>
> - it will be in the next
>
>>>>version) but even so there is a huge amount still to cover even with the
>
> limited way in which we
>
>>>>use Ofbiz. I was also keen to create a doc that could be pulled apart
>
> and used as a test script
>
>>>>as much of the UAT we do is much easier that way.
>>>>
>>>>The reason I don't think it will work in the community in the same way is
>
> that there are very few
>
>>>>end users (or appear to be) on the list that wouldn't be better off
>
> updating the wiki. I've used
>
>>>>Open Office to create the DocBook format (it was the first of these that
>
> I've done and I do like
>
>>>>it but would like to use another editor to create new tags which I think
>
> might end up with a more
>
>>>>flexible document (i.e. use one document root to create sub docs for
>
> Administrators, store clerks,
>
>>>>accounts team etc., which should be quite straightforward with xml) but I
>
> have to fit this into
>
>>>>gaps between contracts like the one I've got right now.
>>>>
>>>>That said I'm happy for this to be released under any license and for
>
> anyone to use this in any
>
>>>>way they see fit. Considering the value that ES and I have had from
>
> participating in this project
>
>>>>it really is the least I can do. At some point I would like to write a
>
> more professional guide
>
>>>>and ideally have it published properly. I think that this would be
>
> better created with a number
>
>>>>of authors simply because the subject is so big.
>>>>
>>>>Very best wishes
>>>>
>>>>Ian
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>On Wed, March 29, 2006 12:28, David Welton wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>Yes, nice job indeed. It would be good to see something like this
>>>>>>>distributed with OFBiz itself.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Yes, or maybe a link from official OFBiz site (Doc tab) will be
>
> sufficient ?
>
>>>>>As the years go by, stuff that doesn't get held together tends to
>>>>>float apart (bit rot). Perhaps if the DocBook sources were in
>
> Subversion, more people would update
>
>>>>>them and add to them, as well. However, this is a decision for Ian, who
>
> would have to release the
>
>>>>>docs under a suitable license, and the developers, who would have to
>
> choose to include it.
>
>>>>>--
>>>>>David N. Welton
>>>>>-
http://www.dedasys.com/davidw/>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Linux, Open Source Consulting
>>>>>-
http://www.dedasys.com/>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>_______________________________________________
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>>>>>
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>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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