Re: too much problems with new functions was: Re: ofbiz twitter account was: Re: svn commit: r918926 - in /ofbiz/site: images/follow_us-b.png index.html
Posted by Scott Gray-2 on Mar 11, 2010; 12:55am
URL: http://ofbiz.116.s1.nabble.com/Re-svn-commit-r918926-in-ofbiz-site-images-follow-us-b-png-index-html-tp1578166p1588292.html
On 10/03/2010, at 5:25 PM, Ean Schuessler wrote:
> Hans Bakker wrote:
>> I give up already before your message, Tim.
>>
>> as happened often in the past as with the setup application, with the
>> myportal application, with the birt integration, with the new ebay
>> component and now with this twitter account, i get really tired by
>> certain people fighting, especially new, additions to the system. For
>> the good of the project? i am sorry i do not think so. Certain people
>> like to show their powers only. Read other mailinglists how other people
>> think about ofbiz and how many people are using ofbiz but do not
>> contribute.
>>
>> Discussion before hand? I think it gets then even more problematic, it
>> takes too long time, my customer does not want to wait for.
>>
>> I am now slowly considering creating components outside of ofbiz like is
>> happening in china and France because it is causing too much grief and
>> discussion to get it into ofbiz.
>>
> This message comments on the general state of affairs with Hans and not just the effort to add a Twitterfeed in the vein of what other competing projects already have on their home page.
>
> Having spent the past month dealing with the sorry state of purchase returns I do have to say that I feel an unfair standard is applied to Hans'.
> The portal,No one complained about portal, there was a lot of collaboration around it.
> the project manager,
The only issues I'm aware of have been changes causing the underlying applications to break, I'm not sure how no one could complain about that if it directly effects them.
> the Ebay integration
The problem here was with having two competing special applications, redundant code and diverging feature sets. No one is against new eBay integration features.
> and the BIRT integration are
I'm not aware of anyone being against the birt integration, there were simply licensing issues which needed to be addressed. I'm glad it made it in and look forward to contributing to it at some point.
> , in my mind, some of the most interesting new developments in the system and I am actively trying to figure out how to put them to use. The Ebay system connects your lowly OFBiz inventory into the world's largest marketplace and the BIRT integration adds (or works towards adding) enterprise level reporting that is a silver bullet item for us when presenting the system to clients.
>
> Fundamentally, I see a failure to honor the contribution in proportion to complaining about its flaws. Its as if someone brought you a valuable gift and all you could comment on is the quality of the wrapping paper. We should work harder to assist in the integration of these useful tools rather than turning on a "my way or the highway" flamethrower. (see Matthew 7:3)
The issues I mention above can hardly be considered wrapping paper, and "complaining" is the wrong word, what is being provided is feedback and that feedback is being treated as some sort of attack. There is no "my way or the highway" flamethrower, there are only discussions about what is good for the project going forward.
> Hans' contributions have inarguable value and some of the weaknesses in his commits (ie. inconsistent indentation) seem like a good opportunity for someone with less experience to do something useful. It would be a crying shame if we lost the features I listed above because of otherwise minor imperfections in their construction.
Quite often there is no time to do an in-depth analysis of commits and IMO sloppy formatting can be indicative of sloppy code and mentioning them keeps the contributor aware that people are watching and perhaps encourages to take more care in what they are writing. If a committer takes offense at being pulled up on poor formatting then tough luck, if anyone else commits something similar they'll get the same response so there is no inequality here.
In the years that I've worked on OFBiz I've contributed hundreds if not thousands of unpaid hours, do I ask for thanks? No. Do I feel bad when someone pulls up one of my commits? No, I'm happy for it and wish it would happen more. I'm sorry that Hans feels attacked every time I start up a discussion with him, but the "attack" is in his perception and there is nothing I can do about that. I'm not here to make Hans feel good about his contributions nor am I here to make him feel bad, I'm just here to talk about code and about the project.
>> On Sat, 2010-03-06 at 01:48 -0700, Tim Ruppert wrote:
>>
>>> Please send me the credentials as well - I'd like to update the Bio and make this actually look like an ASF resource if we're being forced into having something else to maintain. We all have twitter feeds, but we didn't post them on the front page acting like they are coming from the project - this is the inherent problem.
>>>
>>> Btw, Hans, in the future, I would appreciate you talking BEFORE you starting making more things for the project to be in charge of - ebaystore, twitter account for the project, etc, etc. I'm a willing participant, but just because you have commit privileges doesn't mean that you shouldn't have conversations about what you're doing and why. I think that if you followed this guideline, and looked for some more help before diving on issues, you might find that there are plenty of people that are interested in your ideas and they might contribute to a higher quality product than you're tossing out by yourself (this is at least something I've always subscribed to).
>>>
>
> --
> Ean Schuessler, CTO
> [hidden email]
> 214-720-0700 x 315
> Brainfood, Inc.
> http://www.brainfood.com
>
URL: http://ofbiz.116.s1.nabble.com/Re-svn-commit-r918926-in-ofbiz-site-images-follow-us-b-png-index-html-tp1578166p1588292.html
On 10/03/2010, at 5:25 PM, Ean Schuessler wrote:
> Hans Bakker wrote:
>> I give up already before your message, Tim.
>>
>> as happened often in the past as with the setup application, with the
>> myportal application, with the birt integration, with the new ebay
>> component and now with this twitter account, i get really tired by
>> certain people fighting, especially new, additions to the system. For
>> the good of the project? i am sorry i do not think so. Certain people
>> like to show their powers only. Read other mailinglists how other people
>> think about ofbiz and how many people are using ofbiz but do not
>> contribute.
>>
>> Discussion before hand? I think it gets then even more problematic, it
>> takes too long time, my customer does not want to wait for.
>>
>> I am now slowly considering creating components outside of ofbiz like is
>> happening in china and France because it is causing too much grief and
>> discussion to get it into ofbiz.
>>
> This message comments on the general state of affairs with Hans and not just the effort to add a Twitterfeed in the vein of what other competing projects already have on their home page.
>
> Having spent the past month dealing with the sorry state of purchase returns I do have to say that I feel an unfair standard is applied to Hans'.
> The portal,
> the project manager,
The only issues I'm aware of have been changes causing the underlying applications to break, I'm not sure how no one could complain about that if it directly effects them.
> the Ebay integration
The problem here was with having two competing special applications, redundant code and diverging feature sets. No one is against new eBay integration features.
> and the BIRT integration are
I'm not aware of anyone being against the birt integration, there were simply licensing issues which needed to be addressed. I'm glad it made it in and look forward to contributing to it at some point.
> , in my mind, some of the most interesting new developments in the system and I am actively trying to figure out how to put them to use. The Ebay system connects your lowly OFBiz inventory into the world's largest marketplace and the BIRT integration adds (or works towards adding) enterprise level reporting that is a silver bullet item for us when presenting the system to clients.
>
> Fundamentally, I see a failure to honor the contribution in proportion to complaining about its flaws. Its as if someone brought you a valuable gift and all you could comment on is the quality of the wrapping paper. We should work harder to assist in the integration of these useful tools rather than turning on a "my way or the highway" flamethrower. (see Matthew 7:3)
The issues I mention above can hardly be considered wrapping paper, and "complaining" is the wrong word, what is being provided is feedback and that feedback is being treated as some sort of attack. There is no "my way or the highway" flamethrower, there are only discussions about what is good for the project going forward.
> Hans' contributions have inarguable value and some of the weaknesses in his commits (ie. inconsistent indentation) seem like a good opportunity for someone with less experience to do something useful. It would be a crying shame if we lost the features I listed above because of otherwise minor imperfections in their construction.
Quite often there is no time to do an in-depth analysis of commits and IMO sloppy formatting can be indicative of sloppy code and mentioning them keeps the contributor aware that people are watching and perhaps encourages to take more care in what they are writing. If a committer takes offense at being pulled up on poor formatting then tough luck, if anyone else commits something similar they'll get the same response so there is no inequality here.
In the years that I've worked on OFBiz I've contributed hundreds if not thousands of unpaid hours, do I ask for thanks? No. Do I feel bad when someone pulls up one of my commits? No, I'm happy for it and wish it would happen more. I'm sorry that Hans feels attacked every time I start up a discussion with him, but the "attack" is in his perception and there is nothing I can do about that. I'm not here to make Hans feel good about his contributions nor am I here to make him feel bad, I'm just here to talk about code and about the project.
>> On Sat, 2010-03-06 at 01:48 -0700, Tim Ruppert wrote:
>>
>>> Please send me the credentials as well - I'd like to update the Bio and make this actually look like an ASF resource if we're being forced into having something else to maintain. We all have twitter feeds, but we didn't post them on the front page acting like they are coming from the project - this is the inherent problem.
>>>
>>> Btw, Hans, in the future, I would appreciate you talking BEFORE you starting making more things for the project to be in charge of - ebaystore, twitter account for the project, etc, etc. I'm a willing participant, but just because you have commit privileges doesn't mean that you shouldn't have conversations about what you're doing and why. I think that if you followed this guideline, and looked for some more help before diving on issues, you might find that there are plenty of people that are interested in your ideas and they might contribute to a higher quality product than you're tossing out by yourself (this is at least something I've always subscribed to).
>>>
>
> --
> Ean Schuessler, CTO
> [hidden email]
> 214-720-0700 x 315
> Brainfood, Inc.
> http://www.brainfood.com
>
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