http://ofbiz.116.s1.nabble.com/Re-svn-commit-r918926-in-ofbiz-site-images-follow-us-b-png-index-html-tp1578166p1588510.html
Hans, whenever you're ready, I'd still love to talk to you about how we can help to merge the two ebay components together. Let me know.
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> Oh yeah, I'm "feeling the love" now "my friend."
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> After reading enough similar comments from a number of people in recent weeks I think I'm starting to come around to a different way of looking at things, and I think I know how to fix all of these community problems with people not getting along and the software quality falling well below industry standards.
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> We don't want a community where contributions are appreciated and issues with contributions are met in-kind with additional contributions that help fix the problems. We don't want to appreciate what is contributed except in passing here and there in order to look like nice people, quite frankly, most of it's crap anyway and that fact that this stuff continually fails to meet my needs actually causes me a lot of pain.
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> To sum it up what we want is: more critics and less contributors. We want more accountability and less collaboration (which is way overrated).
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> We want contributors to understand that if they contribute something they better darn well be prepared to do a few things, including:
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> 1. support it: fix any problem ever found in it or related to it at any point in the future (even years later), and answer questions about it as they arise (also in perpetuity)
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> 2. market it: convince others in the community that it's of value to them, and if they don't see why it's of value then discuss it and push it as long as necessary (and don't give up because then you'll be seen as weak or a victim and the jackals will be all over that)
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> 3. document it: in a clear and organized way write about what it does, how it does it, every way it could possibly be used, and everything that might go wrong when using it or customizing it
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> 4. test it (automated): if there are no automated tests then it can't possibly work, and you're not going to convince anyone that it does; maybe just as important is that you need automated tests for every possible way of using it because what if someone wants to use it in a way you didn't plan for it to be used and it doesn't work for them?
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> If you don't do all these things you aren't good enough to be an OFBiz contributor (and your probably not very smart, skilled, careful, or dedicated either), and it would be better for your to join the critics (the peanut gallery), or even better just go elsewhere and stop bothering those of us who really make this project what it is.
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> For my part I prefer to play it safe and just not contribute much (if anything). I'm fine with offering to allow others to burn me at the stake should I mess up because I have no intention of ever contributing anything that could possibly not be perfect and complete. That's right, safely in the peanut gallery and telling others what to do (or not to do) is the life for me. While on the topic, I want to say again that I really don't appreciate all of the crap that is contributed that forces me into this position. I don't like being the bad guy, but everyone who contributes here is so incompetent that someone's got to do it or this project will just fall apart.
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> -Not David
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> On Mar 10, 2010, at 5:44 PM, Tim Ruppert wrote:
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>> Still looking forward to discussing and rectifying how we have two ebay stores and how that's just something I'm supposed to be happy about - even if it could be a job for someone who's not as gifted. This has ZERO to do with Hans - that's the problem - the victim role just doesn't work around here. It has everything to do with the fact that rules were broken, discussion is overlooked or ignored, and we have massive amounts of duplication because of this - all the while hiding behind being "attacked" instead of focusing on what is being asked by the person reporting the issues.
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>> If there are others that you feel are not being held to the same standard that Hans is, then what I would suggest is to start to hold people to that standard instead of lowering the level of quality that we need to achieve. This may be a community project, but we're not all hippies here - we need to be accountable for what we do and work towards doing a much better job - and that goes for each every one of us.
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>> Feel free to burn me at the stake if I introduce another component without taking the time to do proper analysis of what is currently out there - and especially if I blow off the discussion the way that we see regularly. Anyways, I want to make it clear that I'm not here to start anything else up - I've got nothing against Hans in ANY way - I just respectfully disagree with the Zen you are experiencing at the moment with the way the contributions are made.
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>> That being said, Hans has made great contributions over the past year - and I do not mean to take anything away from the end result - the road was definitely sometimes difficult and I'm glad that we're thru most of it. Kudos to Hans - and peace man peace. Looking forward to seeing more people looking at the code and hopefully improving what everyone is producing.
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>> Cheers,
>> Ruppert
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>> On Mar 10, 2010, at 5:25 PM, Ean Schuessler wrote:
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>>> Hans Bakker wrote:
>>>> I give up already before your message, Tim.
>>>>
>>>> as happened often in the past as with the setup application, with the
>>>> myportal application, with the birt integration, with the new ebay
>>>> component and now with this twitter account, i get really tired by
>>>> certain people fighting, especially new, additions to the system. For
>>>> the good of the project? i am sorry i do not think so. Certain people
>>>> like to show their powers only. Read other mailinglists how other people
>>>> think about ofbiz and how many people are using ofbiz but do not
>>>> contribute.
>>>>
>>>> Discussion before hand? I think it gets then even more problematic, it
>>>> takes too long time, my customer does not want to wait for.
>>>>
>>>> I am now slowly considering creating components outside of ofbiz like is
>>>> happening in china and France because it is causing too much grief and
>>>> discussion to get it into ofbiz.
>>>>
>>> This message comments on the general state of affairs with Hans and not just the effort to add a Twitterfeed in the vein of what other competing projects already have on their home page.
>>>
>>> Having spent the past month dealing with the sorry state of purchase returns I do have to say that I feel an unfair standard is applied to Hans'. The portal, the project manager, the Ebay integration and the BIRT integration are, in my mind, some of the most interesting new developments in the system and I am actively trying to figure out how to put them to use. The Ebay system connects your lowly OFBiz inventory into the world's largest marketplace and the BIRT integration adds (or works towards adding) enterprise level reporting that is a silver bullet item for us when presenting the system to clients.
>>>
>>> Fundamentally, I see a failure to honor the contribution in proportion to complaining about its flaws. Its as if someone brought you a valuable gift and all you could comment on is the quality of the wrapping paper. We should work harder to assist in the integration of these useful tools rather than turning on a "my way or the highway" flamethrower. (see Matthew 7:3)
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>>> Hans' contributions have inarguable value and some of the weaknesses in his commits (ie. inconsistent indentation) seem like a good opportunity for someone with less experience to do something useful. It would be a crying shame if we lost the features I listed above because of otherwise minor imperfections in their construction.
>>>> On Sat, 2010-03-06 at 01:48 -0700, Tim Ruppert wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Please send me the credentials as well - I'd like to update the Bio and make this actually look like an ASF resource if we're being forced into having something else to maintain. We all have twitter feeds, but we didn't post them on the front page acting like they are coming from the project - this is the inherent problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> Btw, Hans, in the future, I would appreciate you talking BEFORE you starting making more things for the project to be in charge of - ebaystore, twitter account for the project, etc, etc. I'm a willing participant, but just because you have commit privileges doesn't mean that you shouldn't have conversations about what you're doing and why. I think that if you followed this guideline, and looked for some more help before diving on issues, you might find that there are plenty of people that are interested in your ideas and they might contribute to a higher quality product than you're tossing out by yourself (this is at least something I've always subscribed to).
>>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ean Schuessler, CTO
>>>
[hidden email]
>>> 214-720-0700 x 315
>>> Brainfood, Inc.
>>>
http://www.brainfood.com>>>
>>
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