webslinger quick start guide?

[Ean Schuessler]

David E Jones wrote:
> There has been a little bit of discussion about this, but not
> recently. Thanks for bringing it up as it certainly applies to this
> discussion.
>
> I did a little reading on JackRabbit... it's great to see it is SO far
> along! In fact, it looks like it is far enough along that we should
> probably just go for it... IMO. It supports versioning, JTA
> transaction, WebDAV for editors that support/like that, and all sorts
> of other goodies.
JackRabbit is very interesting... especially since its semantics (single
path can have multiple data streams, etc.) are more in tune with how
HTTP works in practice.

However, I do have questions about how powerful its revision control
capabilities are. We've been working with some fairly large content
stores (>200G) and they definitely test the resolve of every Free
Software system we have tried. Hg was not capable of dealing with data
sets of this size. SVN is good with large stores but its tendency to
litter the content store with revision data creates other problems. I
must also stress that the distributed behavior of GIT or Hg is
revolutionary in its productivity. Please make an effort to work with it
before you decide that it isn't valuable.

--
Ean Schuessler, CTO
[hidden email]
214-720-0700 x 315
Brainfood, Inc.
http://www.brainfood.com

[Ean Schuessler]

Adrian Crum wrote:
> I haven't worked through it personally. In my research of WebDAV, I
> noticed that some shops were using SVN on WebDAV, and that authoring
> tools like Dreamweaver use WebDAV. So, it seemed logical to me to put
> a WebDAV interface on the content component.
I would imagine that these shops were using WebDAV on top of SVN rather
than the other way around. I believe that's what mod_dav_svn does.
> Let's say you wanted to use the content component as the backing store
> for a VCS. Then it would be possible to have a setting in the content
> component that would specify something like "Publish repository X,
> revision Y at URL Z." The content component could serve the website
> right from the repository.
Yes, a great idea. Even more useful is "publish repository X, *branch* Y
at URL Z" maybe with a from/thru_date while we're at it.
> I don't know if it's a good idea or not, but from my perspective it
> would be pretty cool.
I definitely think that its a cool idea.

--
Ean Schuessler, CTO
[hidden email]
214-720-0700 x 315
Brainfood, Inc.
http://www.brainfood.com

[Andrew Zeneski-3]

I actually wrote a little prototype app using JackRabbit late last
year. Its a really nifty framework. Just a different way of thinking.
I think this is a really good idea..

Andrew


On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 10:33 PM, David E Jones<[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> There has been a little bit of discussion about this, but not recently.
> Thanks for bringing it up as it certainly applies to this discussion.
>
> I did a little reading on JackRabbit... it's great to see it is SO far
> along! In fact, it looks like it is far enough along that we should probably
> just go for it... IMO. It supports versioning, JTA transaction, WebDAV for
> editors that support/like that, and all sorts of other goodies.
>
> -David
>
>
> On Jul 1, 2009, at 6:16 PM, Mike Rose wrote:
>
>> Have you folks looked into JSR-170, the Java Content Repository spec?  It
>> covers these classes of use cases pretty thoroughly and there are some very
>> compelling implementations out there.  Alfresco is probably the most notable
>> and Apache JackRabbit is pretty impressive as well.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> (new to the list, please forgive me if I've violated some protocol known
>> to long-term list members...)
>>
>> On Jul 1, 2009, at 8:12 PM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> --- On Wed, 7/1/09, David E Jones <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> From: David E Jones <[hidden email]>
>>>> Subject: Re: webslinger quick start guide?
>>>> To: [hidden email]
>>>> Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 2:45 PM
>>>>
>>>> This is an interesting overview and while I'm not sure why
>>>> I hadn't thought along these lines before, at least it's
>>>> through my thick skull now...
>>>>
>>>> I asked Adam about how this would deploy on multiple
>>>> servers with the stuff in the filesystem versus the
>>>> database, and I think what you've written Ean is the
>>>> answer.
>>>>
>>>> Why not treat a source repo (either plain SVN or something
>>>> more exotic like GIT) like the database? Each app server
>>>> would read from and write to the source repo just like it
>>>> would a database record. If SVN or GIT support 2-phase
>>>> commits we could probably even do write operations in the a
>>>> transaction that includes connections to both data stores.
>>>
>>> Why not have the repositories use the OFBiz database as their data store?
>>>
>>> -Adrian
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

[Jacques Le Roux]

I have begun to read a bit about JSR170 (JCR) and JackRabbit. There are 2 aspects in CMS : content management and rendering. So far
I don't understand clearly how is rendering managed in JackRabbit. It seems to me that JCR is only the content repository part and
you need to build something like Sling upon it, right ?

I have recently created a tool for a client based on the OFBiz CMS site demo (thanks Andrew). Using customised showContentTree and
viewContent for templated rendering (menus and contents using specific CompDocs). It's seems hard to get it 1st but actually it's
not so much and very powerful (lot of things with small modifications). Then, on the content management side, you get something like
EzPublish (an UI based on a tree for manipulating contents and their associations). I recently tested Jahia
http://demo.jahia.org/cms, really smart WYSIWYG. From this experience, I'd like to have the content management as a component based
on JackRabbit with a large dose of Ajax in UI. I think that having a tree and a direct access to content (like in Jahia) is not
contradictory but complementary. This said I have not tried anything yet ...

One thing that OFBiz can offer and no CMS softwares can, is the direct relation to the ERP data. Here is our power, this is very
cost effective.

So the above may be seen as a sketch of my requirements for a Content Management Application. Could we talk more about that ?

Jacques

From: "Andrew Zeneski" <[hidden email]>

>I actually wrote a little prototype app using JackRabbit late last
> year. Its a really nifty framework. Just a different way of thinking.
> I think this is a really good idea..
>
> Andrew
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 10:33 PM, David E Jones<[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> There has been a little bit of discussion about this, but not recently.
>> Thanks for bringing it up as it certainly applies to this discussion.
>>
>> I did a little reading on JackRabbit... it's great to see it is SO far
>> along! In fact, it looks like it is far enough along that we should probably
>> just go for it... IMO. It supports versioning, JTA transaction, WebDAV for
>> editors that support/like that, and all sorts of other goodies.
>>
>> -David
>>
>>
>> On Jul 1, 2009, at 6:16 PM, Mike Rose wrote:
>>
>>> Have you folks looked into JSR-170, the Java Content Repository spec? It
>>> covers these classes of use cases pretty thoroughly and there are some very
>>> compelling implementations out there. Alfresco is probably the most notable
>>> and Apache JackRabbit is pretty impressive as well.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> (new to the list, please forgive me if I've violated some protocol known
>>> to long-term list members...)
>>>
>>> On Jul 1, 2009, at 8:12 PM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> --- On Wed, 7/1/09, David E Jones <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> From: David E Jones <[hidden email]>
>>>>> Subject: Re: webslinger quick start guide?
>>>>> To: [hidden email]
>>>>> Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 2:45 PM
>>>>>
>>>>> This is an interesting overview and while I'm not sure why
>>>>> I hadn't thought along these lines before, at least it's
>>>>> through my thick skull now...
>>>>>
>>>>> I asked Adam about how this would deploy on multiple
>>>>> servers with the stuff in the filesystem versus the
>>>>> database, and I think what you've written Ean is the
>>>>> answer.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why not treat a source repo (either plain SVN or something
>>>>> more exotic like GIT) like the database? Each app server
>>>>> would read from and write to the source repo just like it
>>>>> would a database record. If SVN or GIT support 2-phase
>>>>> commits we could probably even do write operations in the a
>>>>> transaction that includes connections to both data stores.
>>>>
>>>> Why not have the repositories use the OFBiz database as their data store?
>>>>
>>>> -Adrian
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>

[Tim Ruppert]

Just a cursory look Jacques - but the site looks great.

Cheers,
Tim
--
Tim Ruppert
HotWax Media
http://www.hotwaxmedia.com

o:801.649.6594
f:801.649.6595

On Aug 17, 2009, at 3:44 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:

> I have begun to read a bit about JSR170 (JCR) and JackRabbit. There  
> are 2 aspects in CMS : content management and rendering. So far
> I don't understand clearly how is rendering managed in JackRabbit.  
> It seems to me that JCR is only the content repository part and
> you need to build something like Sling upon it, right ?
>
> I have recently created a tool for a client based on the OFBiz CMS  
> site demo (thanks Andrew). Using customised showContentTree and
> viewContent for templated rendering (menus and contents using  
> specific CompDocs). It's seems hard to get it 1st but actually it's
> not so much and very powerful (lot of things with small  
> modifications). Then, on the content management side, you get  
> something like
> EzPublish (an UI based on a tree for manipulating contents and their  
> associations). I recently tested Jahia
> http://demo.jahia.org/cms, really smart WYSIWYG. From this  
> experience, I'd like to have the content management as a component  
> based
> on JackRabbit with a large dose of Ajax in UI. I think that having a  
> tree and a direct access to content (like in Jahia) is not
> contradictory but complementary. This said I have not tried anything  
> yet ...
>
> One thing that OFBiz can offer and no CMS softwares can, is the  
> direct relation to the ERP data. Here is our power, this is very  
> cost effective.
>
> So the above may be seen as a sketch of my requirements for a  
> Content Management Application. Could we talk more about that ?
>
> Jacques
>
> From: "Andrew Zeneski" <[hidden email]>
>> I actually wrote a little prototype app using JackRabbit late last
>> year. Its a really nifty framework. Just a different way of thinking.
>> I think this is a really good idea..
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 10:33 PM, David E Jones<[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> There has been a little bit of discussion about this, but not  
>>> recently.
>>> Thanks for bringing it up as it certainly applies to this  
>>> discussion.
>>>
>>> I did a little reading on JackRabbit... it's great to see it is SO  
>>> far
>>> along! In fact, it looks like it is far enough along that we  
>>> should probably
>>> just go for it... IMO. It supports versioning, JTA transaction,  
>>> WebDAV for
>>> editors that support/like that, and all sorts of other goodies.
>>>
>>> -David
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jul 1, 2009, at 6:16 PM, Mike Rose wrote:
>>>
>>>> Have you folks looked into JSR-170, the Java Content Repository  
>>>> spec? It
>>>> covers these classes of use cases pretty thoroughly and there are  
>>>> some very
>>>> compelling implementations out there. Alfresco is probably the  
>>>> most notable
>>>> and Apache JackRabbit is pretty impressive as well.
>>>>
>>>> Mike
>>>>
>>>> (new to the list, please forgive me if I've violated some  
>>>> protocol known
>>>> to long-term list members...)
>>>>
>>>> On Jul 1, 2009, at 8:12 PM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --- On Wed, 7/1/09, David E Jones <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> From: David E Jones <[hidden email]>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: webslinger quick start guide?
>>>>>> To: [hidden email]
>>>>>> Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 2:45 PM
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is an interesting overview and while I'm not sure why
>>>>>> I hadn't thought along these lines before, at least it's
>>>>>> through my thick skull now...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I asked Adam about how this would deploy on multiple
>>>>>> servers with the stuff in the filesystem versus the
>>>>>> database, and I think what you've written Ean is the
>>>>>> answer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why not treat a source repo (either plain SVN or something
>>>>>> more exotic like GIT) like the database? Each app server
>>>>>> would read from and write to the source repo just like it
>>>>>> would a database record. If SVN or GIT support 2-phase
>>>>>> commits we could probably even do write operations in the a
>>>>>> transaction that includes connections to both data stores.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why not have the repositories use the OFBiz database as their  
>>>>> data store?
>>>>>
>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

[byersa]

Can someone explain how this approach compares to what WebSlinger brings?

-Al

On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 3:44 AM, Jacques Le Roux <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> I have begun to read a bit about JSR170 (JCR) and JackRabbit. There are 2
> aspects in CMS : content management and rendering. So far
> I don't understand clearly how is rendering managed in JackRabbit. It seems
> to me that JCR is only the content repository part and
> you need to build something like Sling upon it, right ?
>
> I have recently created a tool for a client based on the OFBiz CMS site
> demo (thanks Andrew). Using customised showContentTree and
> viewContent for templated rendering (menus and contents using specific
> CompDocs). It's seems hard to get it 1st but actually it's
> not so much and very powerful (lot of things with small modifications).
> Then, on the content management side, you get something like
> EzPublish (an UI based on a tree for manipulating contents and their
> associations). I recently tested Jahia
> http://demo.jahia.org/cms, really smart WYSIWYG. From this experience, I'd
> like to have the content management as a component based
> on JackRabbit with a large dose of Ajax in UI. I think that having a tree
> and a direct access to content (like in Jahia) is not
> contradictory but complementary. This said I have not tried anything yet
> ...
>
> One thing that OFBiz can offer and no CMS softwares can, is the direct
> relation to the ERP data. Here is our power, this is very cost effective.
>
> So the above may be seen as a sketch of my requirements for a Content
> Management Application. Could we talk more about that ?
>
> Jacques
>
>

[Jacques Le Roux]

Hi Tim,

Maybe I was not very clear. What I wanted to say was about the way the content management is driven. I had also a cursory review of
recent versions of EzPublish and Jahia (I tried Alfresco and Magnolia some years ago, and I'm sure there are also ideas to pick
there). From what I have seen so far (I did not spent much time, I was only interested by the content management design) :
In EzPublish you have a tree and can add, edit or remove nodes. The tree build your web site.
In Jahia you have a direct access (WYSIWYG, it seems they use GWT) to the web site and edit content directly from there. You have
also access to a tree of the pages and you may search pages from matching words in their titles. But it's not as dynamic as in
EzPublish, it's only for editing. There is also a workflow concept which is related to an approbation sequence (approbation steps).

It seems to me that they use both some kind of CompDoc and Templates to defines the different elements which combined create the web
site.

Jacques:
PS : about Jahia demo : sometimes on the home page you do not get the information about login/password, try using admin / password

From: "Tim Ruppert" <[hidden email]>

> Just a cursory look Jacques - but the site looks great.
>
> Cheers,
> Tim
> --
> Tim Ruppert
> HotWax Media
> http://www.hotwaxmedia.com
>
> o:801.649.6594
> f:801.649.6595
>
> On Aug 17, 2009, at 3:44 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>
>> I have begun to read a bit about JSR170 (JCR) and JackRabbit. There  are 2 aspects in CMS : content management and rendering. So
>> far
>> I don't understand clearly how is rendering managed in JackRabbit.  It seems to me that JCR is only the content repository part
>> and
>> you need to build something like Sling upon it, right ?
>>
>> I have recently created a tool for a client based on the OFBiz CMS  site demo (thanks Andrew). Using customised showContentTree
>> and
>> viewContent for templated rendering (menus and contents using  specific CompDocs). It's seems hard to get it 1st but actually
>> it's
>> not so much and very powerful (lot of things with small  modifications). Then, on the content management side, you get  something
>> like
>> EzPublish (an UI based on a tree for manipulating contents and their  associations). I recently tested Jahia
>> http://demo.jahia.org/cms, really smart WYSIWYG. From this  experience, I'd like to have the content management as a component
>> based
>> on JackRabbit with a large dose of Ajax in UI. I think that having a  tree and a direct access to content (like in Jahia) is not
>> contradictory but complementary. This said I have not tried anything  yet ...
>>
>> One thing that OFBiz can offer and no CMS softwares can, is the  direct relation to the ERP data. Here is our power, this is very
>> cost effective.
>>
>> So the above may be seen as a sketch of my requirements for a  Content Management Application. Could we talk more about that ?
>>
>> Jacques
>>
>> From: "Andrew Zeneski" <[hidden email]>
>>> I actually wrote a little prototype app using JackRabbit late last
>>> year. Its a really nifty framework. Just a different way of thinking.
>>> I think this is a really good idea..
>>>
>>> Andrew
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 10:33 PM, David E Jones<[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> There has been a little bit of discussion about this, but not  recently.
>>>> Thanks for bringing it up as it certainly applies to this  discussion.
>>>>
>>>> I did a little reading on JackRabbit... it's great to see it is SO  far
>>>> along! In fact, it looks like it is far enough along that we  should probably
>>>> just go for it... IMO. It supports versioning, JTA transaction,  WebDAV for
>>>> editors that support/like that, and all sorts of other goodies.
>>>>
>>>> -David
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jul 1, 2009, at 6:16 PM, Mike Rose wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Have you folks looked into JSR-170, the Java Content Repository  spec? It
>>>>> covers these classes of use cases pretty thoroughly and there are  some very
>>>>> compelling implementations out there. Alfresco is probably the  most notable
>>>>> and Apache JackRabbit is pretty impressive as well.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mike
>>>>>
>>>>> (new to the list, please forgive me if I've violated some  protocol known
>>>>> to long-term list members...)
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jul 1, 2009, at 8:12 PM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --- On Wed, 7/1/09, David E Jones <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: David E Jones <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: webslinger quick start guide?
>>>>>>> To: [hidden email]
>>>>>>> Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 2:45 PM
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is an interesting overview and while I'm not sure why
>>>>>>> I hadn't thought along these lines before, at least it's
>>>>>>> through my thick skull now...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I asked Adam about how this would deploy on multiple
>>>>>>> servers with the stuff in the filesystem versus the
>>>>>>> database, and I think what you've written Ean is the
>>>>>>> answer.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why not treat a source repo (either plain SVN or something
>>>>>>> more exotic like GIT) like the database? Each app server
>>>>>>> would read from and write to the source repo just like it
>>>>>>> would a database record. If SVN or GIT support 2-phase
>>>>>>> commits we could probably even do write operations in the a
>>>>>>> transaction that includes connections to both data stores.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why not have the repositories use the OFBiz database as their  data store?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

[Adam Heath-2]

Al Byers wrote:
> Can someone explain how this approach compares to what WebSlinger brings?

Webslinger is a filesystem content repository.  As much as possible,
everything is stored in a normal, plain, simple filesystem.  I can't
emphasize this enough.  FILESYSTEM.  Please, everything filesystem.
Files, directories, everything on disk.

The reasons for this, are so *normal*
editors(vim/eclipse/dreamweaver/photoshop) can deal with the content,
normal revision control systems(svn/git/whatever) can deal with it,
samba/nfs sharing works, scp/rsync work.  There is just too much
useful stuff that can be done with regular files, so why reinvent the
wheel, by storing in some other location?