Apache OFBiz EZBiz

[David E. Jones-2]

I've started work on a new application for OFBiz, and tentatively  
decided on the name "EZBiz" for it. I considered "QuickBiz", but  
that's maybe too suggestive of a certain competing commercial  
application. ;)

The main idea is to create an all-in-one application in OFBiz for  
smaller businesses. Another key part of the idea is to collaborate as  
a community on designs long before any development gets underway.

I've spoken to a few people about this idea in the past... and am  
finally getting around to working on it! A few people have expressed  
interest in this, so hopefully we'll get some good feedback and  
collaboration fleshing out designs and then eventually building the  
thing.

On a side note, yes it is true that I have mostly skipped requirements  
gathering and documenting processes. There are a few reasons I decided  
to do that. One is that this application will be more simple and  
generic and won't get into the vagaries that come up when doing custom  
software or software for larger organizations. Another is that the  
current UBPL stories cover nearly everything that will be needed and  
more, and we can use them as-is (or with small refinements as we go),  
when doing a review of designs to see how well they cover the  
requirements (noting that the intent is NOT to cover all requirements,  
ie business activities, in the UBPL stories). Another reason is that  
there is a lot of this small business software out there that has been  
in use for decades and refined a lot, so we have a lot of sources for  
design ideas without starting from scratch.

Anyway, here is the intro page for EZBiz:

http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBREQDES/OFBiz+EZBiz

On that page there is a short concept write up and some screen  
outlines. The screen outlines I've done so far are meant to help  
establish scope, general organization, and certain configuration/setup  
options that will drive how other parts of the UI are built. The main  
outlines I've worked on so far are:

http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBREQDES/Select+Company
http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBREQDES/New+Company+Setup
http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBREQDES/EZBiz+Main
http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBREQDES/Reports+Main
http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBREQDES/Quick+Setup

For anyone interested in working on these... by all means go ahead!  
You can participate in discussions on the mailing list, recommend  
changes to what should be on screens and how to organize things (based  
on whatever your favorite small business accounting/etc software might  
be, or other experience you've had), and eventually we'll get down to  
doing wireframes for the more complex screens (ie after outlining what  
will go on them), and then mapping everything to existing OFBiz  
entities and services, and then start building!

I'll personally be working on this quite a bit as it's getting too  
cold around here to do manual labor and I've managed to finish all my  
homework (hint, hint... looking for work ;) ), and I'll be happy to  
work with whoever else is interested (or would that be whomever?).

-David

[Anil Patel-3]

David,
Congratulations, really exciting stuff. I have been trying to  
contribute your UBPL effort and this next effort is inline with where  
I'll like ofbiz to go. Sure I'll be able to find ways to contribute in  
this effort.

Thanks and Regards
Anil Patel
HotWax Media Inc
http://www.hotwaxmedia.com
http://us.apachecon.com/c/acus2009/sponsors/sponsors

On Oct 27, 2009, at 2:39 PM, David E Jones wrote:

>
> I've started work on a new application for OFBiz, and tentatively  
> decided on the name "EZBiz" for it. I considered "QuickBiz", but  
> that's maybe too suggestive of a certain competing commercial  
> application. ;)
>
> The main idea is to create an all-in-one application in OFBiz for  
> smaller businesses. Another key part of the idea is to collaborate  
> as a community on designs long before any development gets underway.
>
> I've spoken to a few people about this idea in the past... and am  
> finally getting around to working on it! A few people have expressed  
> interest in this, so hopefully we'll get some good feedback and  
> collaboration fleshing out designs and then eventually building the  
> thing.
>
> On a side note, yes it is true that I have mostly skipped  
> requirements gathering and documenting processes. There are a few  
> reasons I decided to do that. One is that this application will be  
> more simple and generic and won't get into the vagaries that come up  
> when doing custom software or software for larger organizations.  
> Another is that the current UBPL stories cover nearly everything  
> that will be needed and more, and we can use them as-is (or with  
> small refinements as we go), when doing a review of designs to see  
> how well they cover the requirements (noting that the intent is NOT  
> to cover all requirements, ie business activities, in the UBPL  
> stories). Another reason is that there is a lot of this small  
> business software out there that has been in use for decades and  
> refined a lot, so we have a lot of sources for design ideas without  
> starting from scratch.
>
> Anyway, here is the intro page for EZBiz:
>
> http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBREQDES/OFBiz+EZBiz
>
> On that page there is a short concept write up and some screen  
> outlines. The screen outlines I've done so far are meant to help  
> establish scope, general organization, and certain configuration/
> setup options that will drive how other parts of the UI are built.  
> The main outlines I've worked on so far are:
>
> http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBREQDES/Select+Company
> http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBREQDES/New+Company+Setup
> http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBREQDES/EZBiz+Main
> http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBREQDES/Reports+Main
> http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBREQDES/Quick+Setup
>
> For anyone interested in working on these... by all means go ahead!  
> You can participate in discussions on the mailing list, recommend  
> changes to what should be on screens and how to organize things  
> (based on whatever your favorite small business accounting/etc  
> software might be, or other experience you've had), and eventually  
> we'll get down to doing wireframes for the more complex screens (ie  
> after outlining what will go on them), and then mapping everything  
> to existing OFBiz entities and services, and then start building!
>
> I'll personally be working on this quite a bit as it's getting too  
> cold around here to do manual labor and I've managed to finish all  
> my homework (hint, hint... looking for work ;) ), and I'll be happy  
> to work with whoever else is interested (or would that be whomever?).
>
> -David
>
>

[Tim Ruppert]

+1 - as I'm sure you know David, this is something we are VERY  
interested in and will back you and the community 100%.  This has made  
my week!

Cheers,
Ruppert
--
Tim Ruppert
HotWax Media
http://www.hotwaxmedia.com

o:801.649.6594
f:801.649.6595

On Oct 27, 2009, at 2:39 PM, David E Jones wrote:

>
> I've started work on a new application for OFBiz, and tentatively  
> decided on the name "EZBiz" for it. I considered "QuickBiz", but  
> that's maybe too suggestive of a certain competing commercial  
> application. ;)
>
> The main idea is to create an all-in-one application in OFBiz for  
> smaller businesses. Another key part of the idea is to collaborate  
> as a community on designs long before any development gets underway.
>
> I've spoken to a few people about this idea in the past... and am  
> finally getting around to working on it! A few people have expressed  
> interest in this, so hopefully we'll get some good feedback and  
> collaboration fleshing out designs and then eventually building the  
> thing.
>
> On a side note, yes it is true that I have mostly skipped  
> requirements gathering and documenting processes. There are a few  
> reasons I decided to do that. One is that this application will be  
> more simple and generic and won't get into the vagaries that come up  
> when doing custom software or software for larger organizations.  
> Another is that the current UBPL stories cover nearly everything  
> that will be needed and more, and we can use them as-is (or with  
> small refinements as we go), when doing a review of designs to see  
> how well they cover the requirements (noting that the intent is NOT  
> to cover all requirements, ie business activities, in the UBPL  
> stories). Another reason is that there is a lot of this small  
> business software out there that has been in use for decades and  
> refined a lot, so we have a lot of sources for design ideas without  
> starting from scratch.
>
> Anyway, here is the intro page for EZBiz:
>
> http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBREQDES/OFBiz+EZBiz
>
> On that page there is a short concept write up and some screen  
> outlines. The screen outlines I've done so far are meant to help  
> establish scope, general organization, and certain configuration/
> setup options that will drive how other parts of the UI are built.  
> The main outlines I've worked on so far are:
>
> http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBREQDES/Select+Company
> http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBREQDES/New+Company+Setup
> http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBREQDES/EZBiz+Main
> http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBREQDES/Reports+Main
> http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBREQDES/Quick+Setup
>
> For anyone interested in working on these... by all means go ahead!  
> You can participate in discussions on the mailing list, recommend  
> changes to what should be on screens and how to organize things  
> (based on whatever your favorite small business accounting/etc  
> software might be, or other experience you've had), and eventually  
> we'll get down to doing wireframes for the more complex screens (ie  
> after outlining what will go on them), and then mapping everything  
> to existing OFBiz entities and services, and then start building!
>
> I'll personally be working on this quite a bit as it's getting too  
> cold around here to do manual labor and I've managed to finish all  
> my homework (hint, hint... looking for work ;) ), and I'll be happy  
> to work with whoever else is interested (or would that be whomever?).
>
> -David
>
>

[Jacques Le Roux]

David,

Not much to say, so far
I have learned a new word : vagaries.
eZBiz could be considered a competive name also, but not in the same area (watch my eyes : CMS, anyway joke)

OK, in one word I'm certainly interested but not much time to spend at short term.

Also I don't know how they progress but the Noegia team wants to get closer to the OFBiz trunk.
They are developping an addon concept (for a year now, but I don't know much about it) which should allow them to contribute more to
OFBiz while keeping some their own stuff aside (I guess for licence reasons, but I'm not sure what they really want to share).
Aynway, to the point : Nicolas Malin (who owns his own company but is part of the Neogia team) has developped (with a "town
administration") an accouting application specialized for French (maybe not only) SMEs.
Hopefully, a collaboration around your concept might be done...

Jacques

From: "David E Jones" <[hidden email]>

> I've started work on a new application for OFBiz, and tentatively  decided on the name "EZBiz" for it. I considered "QuickBiz",
> but  that's maybe too suggestive of a certain competing commercial  application. ;)
>
> The main idea is to create an all-in-one application in OFBiz for  smaller businesses. Another key part of the idea is to
> collaborate as  a community on designs long before any development gets underway.
>
> I've spoken to a few people about this idea in the past... and am  finally getting around to working on it! A few people have
> expressed  interest in this, so hopefully we'll get some good feedback and  collaboration fleshing out designs and then eventually
> building the  thing.
>
> On a side note, yes it is true that I have mostly skipped requirements  gathering and documenting processes. There are a few
> reasons I decided  to do that. One is that this application will be more simple and  generic and won't get into the vagaries that
> come up when doing custom  software or software for larger organizations. Another is that the  current UBPL stories cover nearly
> everything that will be needed and  more, and we can use them as-is (or with small refinements as we go),  when doing a review of
> designs to see how well they cover the  requirements (noting that the intent is NOT to cover all requirements,  ie business
> activities, in the UBPL stories). Another reason is that  there is a lot of this small business software out there that has been
> in use for decades and refined a lot, so we have a lot of sources for  design ideas without starting from scratch.
>
> Anyway, here is the intro page for EZBiz:
>
> http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBREQDES/OFBiz+EZBiz
>
> On that page there is a short concept write up and some screen  outlines. The screen outlines I've done so far are meant to help
> establish scope, general organization, and certain configuration/setup  options that will drive how other parts of the UI are
> built. The main  outlines I've worked on so far are:
>
> http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBREQDES/Select+Company
> http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBREQDES/New+Company+Setup
> http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBREQDES/EZBiz+Main
> http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBREQDES/Reports+Main
> http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBREQDES/Quick+Setup
>
> For anyone interested in working on these... by all means go ahead!  You can participate in discussions on the mailing list,
> recommend  changes to what should be on screens and how to organize things (based  on whatever your favorite small business
> accounting/etc software might  be, or other experience you've had), and eventually we'll get down to  doing wireframes for the
> more complex screens (ie after outlining what  will go on them), and then mapping everything to existing OFBiz  entities and
> services, and then start building!
>
> I'll personally be working on this quite a bit as it's getting too  cold around here to do manual labor and I've managed to finish
> all my  homework (hint, hint... looking for work ;) ), and I'll be happy to  work with whoever else is interested (or would that
> be whomever?).
>
> -David
>
>

[Ean Schuessler]

David E Jones wrote:
> I've started work on a new application for OFBiz, and tentatively
> decided on the name "EZBiz" for it. I considered "QuickBiz", but
> that's maybe too suggestive of a certain competing commercial
> application. ;)
>
> The main idea is to create an all-in-one application in OFBiz for
> smaller businesses. Another key part of the idea is to collaborate as
> a community on designs long before any development gets underway.
We're very much into it.

I also find myself wondering if this effort could serve as a next-gen
interface for the existing OFBiz. Perhaps an UserLogin can be configured
for "easy" or "expert" presentation modes.

Another item which may fold into this... We are working on a full
e-commerce interface overhaul that will also serve as a get-started
demonstration for the webslinger packages. This system will provide
double-click editing for e-commerce content as well as generic content.

A one-stop solution for small businesses that gives them an easy to
update web-site as well as quick-books easy accounting and (dare I say
it) point of sale would be compelling indeed. I don't want to call
competitors out by name but I think a few of them would be quaking in
their boots if we roll something like that off the blocks.

--
Ean Schuessler, CTO
[hidden email]
214-720-0700 x 315
Brainfood, Inc.
http://www.brainfood.com

[Tim Ruppert]

Hallelujah!  I have to say Ean, that the missing link for how amazing WebSlinger can be in OFBiz (we've all been blown away many times now), has always been this reference implementation of it in use in the eComm world.  POS coupled with more integrations and an amazing front end editing system is definitely something to be feared by our competitors.

Cheers,

Ruppert

--

Tim Ruppert

HotWax Media

http://www.hotwaxmedia.com

o:801.649.6594

f:801.649.6595

On Oct 27, 2009, at 4:24 PM, Ean Schuessler wrote:

Another item which may fold into this... We are working on a full
e-commerce interface overhaul that will also serve as a get-started
demonstration for the webslinger packages. This system will provide
double-click editing for e-commerce content as well as generic content.

A one-stop solution for small businesses that gives them an easy to
update web-site as well as quick-books easy accounting and (dare I say
it) point of sale would be compelling indeed. I don't want to call
competitors out by name but I think a few of them would be quaking in
their boots if we roll something like that off the blocks.

-- 
Ean Schuessler, CTO
[hidden email]
214-720-0700 x 315
Brainfood, Inc.
http://www.brainfood.com

[Jacques Le Roux]

From: "Ean Schuessler" <[hidden email]>

> David E Jones wrote:
>> I've started work on a new application for OFBiz, and tentatively
>> decided on the name "EZBiz" for it. I considered "QuickBiz", but
>> that's maybe too suggestive of a certain competing commercial
>> application. ;)
>>
>> The main idea is to create an all-in-one application in OFBiz for
>> smaller businesses. Another key part of the idea is to collaborate as
>> a community on designs long before any development gets underway.
> We're very much into it.
>
> I also find myself wondering if this effort could serve as a next-gen
> interface for the existing OFBiz. Perhaps an UserLogin can be configured
> for "easy" or "expert" presentation modes.
>
> Another item which may fold into this... We are working on a full
> e-commerce interface overhaul that will also serve as a get-started
> demonstration for the webslinger packages. This system will provide
> double-click editing for e-commerce content as well as generic content.
>
> A one-stop solution for small businesses that gives them an easy to
> update web-site as well as quick-books easy accounting and (dare I say
> it) point of sale would be compelling indeed. I don't want to call
> competitors out by name but I think a few of them would be quaking in
> their boots if we roll something like that off the blocks.

Look promising, the problems with POS which still remains is how to deal with JavaPOS....

Jacques
 
> --
> Ean Schuessler, CTO
> [hidden email]
> 214-720-0700 x 315
> Brainfood, Inc.
> http://www.brainfood.com
>
>

[chris snow]

Hi David,

Will you be setting up a wiki area or jira issue dedicated to EZBiz so that we can follow developments?

Many thanks,

Chris

[Malin Nicolas]

Hi David,
 
I'm very pleased of this new development. On Neogia project, we've been working for a few years on having a generic system that give the possibility to create quickly screens and data for any type of society.

The problem with small buisnesses is that they need a system out of the box, with parameters, data and business processes already included. The result, this application contains a lot of information that are not really usefull but necessary to manage "all" types of cases. For example, I think EZbiz is today only targetted for american small businesses because I don't see anywhere a manner of managing the other countries specific information.

This is why we decided, after analysing the OFBiz evolutions, and the need to constantly adapt Neogia, to stop Neogia global project to re-think our development process. It's why we started the add-on system. The purpose of this is to separate a functionnality, technology improvement, component source code to make easier interaction with OFBiz
standard.

Today, we can create many addons with specific purposes for small business, with dependancy like in a GNU/Linux system. In a few words, you have the main application (OFBiz), some functionnalities needed but not in the standard (first addon level) and the vertical improvment (second addon level). After you an add more addons for specific data, languages, label modifications, etc ... It's easier to manage that than a monolithic application with many data and parameters.

I think that we can all beneficit from the addon management system in the promising EZBiz application. This would allow to separate functionnality code and allow to make easier the integration in OFBiz standard.

Example with New Company Setup, you can have a first addon that contains all main information to create a company. After you can have addons for each type of business you want to manage, eg :

* an addon for lawyer that adds some specific field on screen (but not on entity because the standard can manage all type  ;)  )
* an addon for hairdresser that add also some specific
* an addon for french hairdresser because the french hair are different (why ? I don't know  ;)) , but this addon would be dependant from the global hairdresser addon which is also dependant of the new company setup.

The risk is to have too many addons and then the tests would not be sufficient in all ways. We are actually working hard on deploying a continuous integration server to test the addons with Selenium in a first time.

All neogia maintainers would be happy to work with OFBiz around the addon manager to ensure that we get together a solid solution and many addons to get more out of OFBiz, and deliver more services to small businesses.

Nicolas


David E Jones a écrit :

>
> I've started work on a new application for OFBiz, and tentatively
> decided on the name "EZBiz" for it. I considered "QuickBiz", but
> that's maybe too suggestive of a certain competing commercial
> application. ;)
>
> The main idea is to create an all-in-one application in OFBiz for
> smaller businesses. Another key part of the idea is to collaborate as
> a community on designs long before any development gets underway.
>
> I've spoken to a few people about this idea in the past... and am
> finally getting around to working on it! A few people have expressed
> interest in this, so hopefully we'll get some good feedback and
> collaboration fleshing out designs and then eventually building the
> thing.
>
> On a side note, yes it is true that I have mostly skipped requirements
> gathering and documenting processes. There are a few reasons I decided
> to do that. One is that this application will be more simple and
> generic and won't get into the vagaries that come up when doing custom
> software or software for larger organizations. Another is that the
> current UBPL stories cover nearly everything that will be needed and
> more, and we can use them as-is (or with small refinements as we go),
> when doing a review of designs to see how well they cover the
> requirements (noting that the intent is NOT to cover all requirements,
> ie business activities, in the UBPL stories). Another reason is that
> there is a lot of this small business software out there that has been
> in use for decades and refined a lot, so we have a lot of sources for
> design ideas without starting from scratch.
>
> Anyway, here is the intro page for EZBiz:
>
> http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBREQDES/OFBiz+EZBiz
>
> On that page there is a short concept write up and some screen
> outlines. The screen outlines I've done so far are meant to help
> establish scope, general organization, and certain configuration/setup
> options that will drive how other parts of the UI are built. The main
> outlines I've worked on so far are:
>
> http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBREQDES/Select+Company
> http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBREQDES/New+Company+Setup
> http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBREQDES/EZBiz+Main
> http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBREQDES/Reports+Main
> http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBREQDES/Quick+Setup
>
> For anyone interested in working on these... by all means go ahead!
> You can participate in discussions on the mailing list, recommend
> changes to what should be on screens and how to organize things (based
> on whatever your favorite small business accounting/etc software might
> be, or other experience you've had), and eventually we'll get down to
> doing wireframes for the more complex screens (ie after outlining what
> will go on them), and then mapping everything to existing OFBiz
> entities and services, and then start building!
>
> I'll personally be working on this quite a bit as it's getting too
> cold around here to do manual labor and I've managed to finish all my
> homework (hint, hint... looking for work ;) ), and I'll be happy to
> work with whoever else is interested (or would that be whomever?).
>
> -David
>
>

--
Nicolas MALIN
Consultant
Tél : [phone]
Site projet : http://www.neogia.org/
-------
Société LibrenBerry
Tél : [phone]
Site : http://www.librenberry.net/

[Marc Morin]

As many of you know, we at Emforium have been busy building out a full set of business software application to provide an "ALL-IN" comprehensive solution for the small business market.  When we started the evaluation over a year ago, Ofbiz was the selected platform of choice.  Other components are Zimbra for email and concrete5 for web.

Over this time, we've spent our efforts providing an entirely new UI front end for the backend applications: sales order, inventory, CRM, admin, reports, multi tenancy, published datasets (makes solution targeted for any market or geography), etc...

We have expressed privately that Ofbiz needs to have a new mission in order to really drive it's importance and relevance as an open source project.  As it stands, it's scope is very wide, and not targeted a providing and out-of-the box solution to any problem, save ecommerce (even then, lot's of styling work usually needed).

We would be 100% behind this direction for Ofbiz.  We'd want to contribute back components now that are Emforium proprietary and would work to reduce the amount of deviation between our proprietary solution and this newly stated direction.

Marc

[Tim Ruppert]

This sounds fantastic Marc - it's amazing to see many of the software  
providers out there coming together to back this idea.  This has the  
unique opportunity of taking everything that OFBiz does to the next  
level.

I guess the big question is, what's next to help get some of these  
backend ideas back into this newly refined mission?  We're more than  
happy to devote resources to making this happen.

Cheers,
Ruppert
--
Tim Ruppert
HotWax Media
http://www.hotwaxmedia.com

o:801.649.6594
f:801.649.6595

On Oct 29, 2009, at 7:47 AM, Marc Morin wrote:

> As many of you know, we at Emforium have been busy building out a  
> full set of business software application to provide an "ALL-IN"  
> comprehensive solution for the small business market.  When we  
> started the evaluation over a year ago, Ofbiz was the selected  
> platform of choice.  Other components are Zimbra for email and  
> concrete5 for web.
>
> Over this time, we've spent our efforts providing an entirely new UI  
> front end for the backend applications: sales order, inventory, CRM,  
> admin, reports, multi tenancy, published datasets (makes solution  
> targeted for any market or geography), etc...
>
> We have expressed privately that Ofbiz needs to have a new mission  
> in order to really drive it's importance and relevance as an open  
> source project.  As it stands, it's scope is very wide, and not  
> targeted a providing and out-of-the box solution to any problem,  
> save ecommerce (even then, lot's of styling work usually needed).
>
> We would be 100% behind this direction for Ofbiz.  We'd want to  
> contribute back components now that are Emforium proprietary and  
> would work to reduce the amount of deviation between our proprietary  
> solution and this newly stated direction.
>
> Marc

[Jacques Le Roux]

Hi Marc,

Great! BTW, I think http://www.allinsoftware.com/ deserves a line in the 1st table at
http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBIZ/Apache+OFBiz+User+List, isn'it ?
I will also put one on the OFBiz site, if you don't mind ?

Jacques

From: "Marc Morin" <[hidden email]>

> As many of you know, we at Emforium have been busy building out a full set of business software application to provide an "ALL-IN"
> comprehensive solution for the small business market.  When we started the evaluation over a year ago, Ofbiz was the selected
> platform of choice.  Other components are Zimbra for email and concrete5 for web.
>
> Over this time, we've spent our efforts providing an entirely new UI front end for the backend applications: sales order,
> inventory, CRM, admin, reports, multi tenancy, published datasets (makes solution targeted for any market or geography), etc...
>
> We have expressed privately that Ofbiz needs to have a new mission in order to really drive it's importance and relevance as an
> open source project.  As it stands, it's scope is very wide, and not targeted a providing and out-of-the box solution to any
> problem, save ecommerce (even then, lot's of styling work usually needed).
>
> We would be 100% behind this direction for Ofbiz.  We'd want to contribute back components now that are Emforium proprietary and
> would work to reduce the amount of deviation between our proprietary solution and this newly stated direction.
>
> Marc
>

[Jacques Le Roux]

From: "Jacques Le Roux" <[hidden email]>
> Hi Marc,
>
> Great! BTW, I think http://www.allinsoftware.com/ deserves a line in the 1st table at
> http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBIZ/Apache+OFBiz+User+List, isn'it ?
> I will also put one on the OFBiz site, if you don't mind ?

Done on OFBiz site

Jacques

> Jacques
>
> From: "Marc Morin" <[hidden email]>
>> As many of you know, we at Emforium have been busy building out a full set of business software application to provide an
>> "ALL-IN" comprehensive solution for the small business market.  When we started the evaluation over a year ago, Ofbiz was the
>> selected platform of choice.  Other components are Zimbra for email and concrete5 for web.
>>
>> Over this time, we've spent our efforts providing an entirely new UI front end for the backend applications: sales order,
>> inventory, CRM, admin, reports, multi tenancy, published datasets (makes solution targeted for any market or geography), etc...
>>
>> We have expressed privately that Ofbiz needs to have a new mission in order to really drive it's importance and relevance as an
>> open source project.  As it stands, it's scope is very wide, and not targeted a providing and out-of-the box solution to any
>> problem, save ecommerce (even then, lot's of styling work usually needed).
>>
>> We would be 100% behind this direction for Ofbiz.  We'd want to contribute back components now that are Emforium proprietary and
>> would work to reduce the amount of deviation between our proprietary solution and this newly stated direction.
>>
>> Marc
>>
>

[Bruno Busco]

Having OFBiz splitted in a core framework and add-on modules seems to
me like a must if we want to improve features.
Add-on modules is how many large and popular projects are built.
Even OpenERP says to have more that 350 modules and offers different
flavours of it here http://www.openerp.com/discover/demonstration.html

I think we should start discussing on the module add-on system that we
want to implement in OFBiz.
I have read that there is a plan from Neogia people to introduce what
they have developed. Is there any schedule for this?
Are you going to write a Confluence page where we can see how it works?

Are we going to host the add-on modules on a separate SVN folder?

Thank you,
Bruno

2009/10/29 Tim Ruppert <[hidden email]>:

> This sounds fantastic Marc - it's amazing to see many of the software
> providers out there coming together to back this idea.  This has the unique
> opportunity of taking everything that OFBiz does to the next level.
>
> I guess the big question is, what's next to help get some of these backend
> ideas back into this newly refined mission?  We're more than happy to devote
> resources to making this happen.
>
> Cheers,
> Ruppert
> --
> Tim Ruppert
> HotWax Media
> http://www.hotwaxmedia.com
>
> o:801.649.6594
> f:801.649.6595
>
> On Oct 29, 2009, at 7:47 AM, Marc Morin wrote:
>
>> As many of you know, we at Emforium have been busy building out a full set
>> of business software application to provide an "ALL-IN" comprehensive
>> solution for the small business market.  When we started the evaluation over
>> a year ago, Ofbiz was the selected platform of choice.  Other components are
>> Zimbra for email and concrete5 for web.
>>
>> Over this time, we've spent our efforts providing an entirely new UI front
>> end for the backend applications: sales order, inventory, CRM, admin,
>> reports, multi tenancy, published datasets (makes solution targeted for any
>> market or geography), etc...
>>
>> We have expressed privately that Ofbiz needs to have a new mission in
>> order to really drive it's importance and relevance as an open source
>> project.  As it stands, it's scope is very wide, and not targeted a
>> providing and out-of-the box solution to any problem, save ecommerce (even
>> then, lot's of styling work usually needed).
>>
>> We would be 100% behind this direction for Ofbiz.  We'd want to contribute
>> back components now that are Emforium proprietary and would work to reduce
>> the amount of deviation between our proprietary solution and this newly
>> stated direction.
>>
>> Marc
>
>

[Jacques Le Roux]

Addons are certainly a good idea. But a good handling of them is also required (in other words they should never interfer).
I have a prospective customer (IT manager), who said that his company is using OpenERP (Python) but he is worried about the mess
addons bring. He talked by experience...
I remember also have read that some OsCommerce (PHP) users turned to Magento (PHP) because of addons issues
Maybe Apache Felix (OSGi Service Platform Release 4 implementation) is also to consider. But at longer term I guess
http://felix.apache.org/site/index.html

Also it's worth to be noted http://markmail.org/message/zyvtk67scqtriqf7
Also http://opentaps.org/docs/index.php/Ofbiz-osgi-prototype (contributed by Raj actually I will put it in OFBiz also a day or
another)

My 2cts

Jacques

From: "Bruno Busco" <[hidden email]>

> Having OFBiz splitted in a core framework and add-on modules seems to
> me like a must if we want to improve features.
> Add-on modules is how many large and popular projects are built.
> Even OpenERP says to have more that 350 modules and offers different
> flavours of it here http://www.openerp.com/discover/demonstration.html
>
> I think we should start discussing on the module add-on system that we
> want to implement in OFBiz.
> I have read that there is a plan from Neogia people to introduce what
> they have developed. Is there any schedule for this?
> Are you going to write a Confluence page where we can see how it works?
>
> Are we going to host the add-on modules on a separate SVN folder?
>
> Thank you,
> Bruno
>
> 2009/10/29 Tim Ruppert <[hidden email]>:
>> This sounds fantastic Marc - it's amazing to see many of the software
>> providers out there coming together to back this idea. This has the unique
>> opportunity of taking everything that OFBiz does to the next level.
>>
>> I guess the big question is, what's next to help get some of these backend
>> ideas back into this newly refined mission? We're more than happy to devote
>> resources to making this happen.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Ruppert
>> --
>> Tim Ruppert
>> HotWax Media
>> http://www.hotwaxmedia.com
>>
>> o:801.649.6594
>> f:801.649.6595
>>
>> On Oct 29, 2009, at 7:47 AM, Marc Morin wrote:
>>
>>> As many of you know, we at Emforium have been busy building out a full set
>>> of business software application to provide an "ALL-IN" comprehensive
>>> solution for the small business market. When we started the evaluation over
>>> a year ago, Ofbiz was the selected platform of choice. Other components are
>>> Zimbra for email and concrete5 for web.
>>>
>>> Over this time, we've spent our efforts providing an entirely new UI front
>>> end for the backend applications: sales order, inventory, CRM, admin,
>>> reports, multi tenancy, published datasets (makes solution targeted for any
>>> market or geography), etc...
>>>
>>> We have expressed privately that Ofbiz needs to have a new mission in
>>> order to really drive it's importance and relevance as an open source
>>> project. As it stands, it's scope is very wide, and not targeted a
>>> providing and out-of-the box solution to any problem, save ecommerce (even
>>> then, lot's of styling work usually needed).
>>>
>>> We would be 100% behind this direction for Ofbiz. We'd want to contribute
>>> back components now that are Emforium proprietary and would work to reduce
>>> the amount of deviation between our proprietary solution and this newly
>>> stated direction.
>>>
>>> Marc
>>
>>
>

[Jacques Le Roux]

From: "Jacques Le Roux" <[hidden email]>

> Addons are certainly a good idea. But a good handling of them is also required (in other words they should never interfer).
> I have a prospective customer (IT manager), who said that his company is using OpenERP (Python) but he is worried about the mess
> addons bring. He talked by experience...
> I remember also have read that some OsCommerce (PHP) users turned to Magento (PHP) because of addons issues
> Maybe Apache Felix (OSGi Service Platform Release 4 implementation) is also to consider. But at longer term I guess
> http://felix.apache.org/site/index.html
>
> Also it's worth to be noted http://markmail.org/message/zyvtk67scqtriqf7
> Also http://opentaps.org/docs/index.php/Ofbiz-osgi-prototype (contributed by Raj actually I will put it in OFBiz also a day or
> another)

Forgot this one http://www.opentaps.org/docs/index.php/Opentaps-osgi
Jacques
 

> My 2cts
>
> Jacques
>
> From: "Bruno Busco" <[hidden email]>
>> Having OFBiz splitted in a core framework and add-on modules seems to
>> me like a must if we want to improve features.
>> Add-on modules is how many large and popular projects are built.
>> Even OpenERP says to have more that 350 modules and offers different
>> flavours of it here http://www.openerp.com/discover/demonstration.html
>>
>> I think we should start discussing on the module add-on system that we
>> want to implement in OFBiz.
>> I have read that there is a plan from Neogia people to introduce what
>> they have developed. Is there any schedule for this?
>> Are you going to write a Confluence page where we can see how it works?
>>
>> Are we going to host the add-on modules on a separate SVN folder?
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Bruno
>>
>> 2009/10/29 Tim Ruppert <[hidden email]>:
>>> This sounds fantastic Marc - it's amazing to see many of the software
>>> providers out there coming together to back this idea. This has the unique
>>> opportunity of taking everything that OFBiz does to the next level.
>>>
>>> I guess the big question is, what's next to help get some of these backend
>>> ideas back into this newly refined mission? We're more than happy to devote
>>> resources to making this happen.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Ruppert
>>> --
>>> Tim Ruppert
>>> HotWax Media
>>> http://www.hotwaxmedia.com
>>>
>>> o:801.649.6594
>>> f:801.649.6595
>>>
>>> On Oct 29, 2009, at 7:47 AM, Marc Morin wrote:
>>>
>>>> As many of you know, we at Emforium have been busy building out a full set
>>>> of business software application to provide an "ALL-IN" comprehensive
>>>> solution for the small business market. When we started the evaluation over
>>>> a year ago, Ofbiz was the selected platform of choice. Other components are
>>>> Zimbra for email and concrete5 for web.
>>>>
>>>> Over this time, we've spent our efforts providing an entirely new UI front
>>>> end for the backend applications: sales order, inventory, CRM, admin,
>>>> reports, multi tenancy, published datasets (makes solution targeted for any
>>>> market or geography), etc...
>>>>
>>>> We have expressed privately that Ofbiz needs to have a new mission in
>>>> order to really drive it's importance and relevance as an open source
>>>> project. As it stands, it's scope is very wide, and not targeted a
>>>> providing and out-of-the box solution to any problem, save ecommerce (even
>>>> then, lot's of styling work usually needed).
>>>>
>>>> We would be 100% behind this direction for Ofbiz. We'd want to contribute
>>>> back components now that are Emforium proprietary and would work to reduce
>>>> the amount of deviation between our proprietary solution and this newly
>>>> stated direction.
>>>>
>>>> Marc
>>>
>>>
>>
>

[David E. Jones-2]

On Dec 17, 2009, at 3:46 PM, Bruno Busco wrote:

> Having OFBiz splitted in a core framework and add-on modules seems to
> me like a must if we want to improve features.
> Add-on modules is how many large and popular projects are built.
> Even OpenERP says to have more that 350 modules and offers different
> flavours of it here http://www.openerp.com/discover/demonstration.html

We already have a plugin, or add-on, or whatever you want to call it, facility: components.

> I think we should start discussing on the module add-on system that we
> want to implement in OFBiz.
> I have read that there is a plan from Neogia people to introduce what
> they have developed. Is there any schedule for this?
> Are you going to write a Confluence page where we can see how it works?
>
> Are we going to host the add-on modules on a separate SVN folder?

It seems the whole point of add-on modules is to NOT have them be part of the project. The intellectual property issues and concerns are totally different from the main project, and the licensing may not be compatible with what the ASF requires, so no I really don't think it would make sense to have a place for more loosely managed stuff in SVN.

On the other hand, we already have a place for add-on modules in SVN: the specialpurpose directory.

Consider that the framework and applications directories are the basis of OFBiz, and everything else is an add-on of sorts. The applications are important so that add-on components can use the common data model for implicit integration, unless the add-on application won't be doing anything with common business data, and then it only needs depend on the framework.

Now getting back to the point... I think you already know all of this Bruno, so what is it that you'd like to see that OFBiz does not already have?

-David

> 2009/10/29 Tim Ruppert <[hidden email]>:
>> This sounds fantastic Marc - it's amazing to see many of the software
>> providers out there coming together to back this idea.  This has the unique
>> opportunity of taking everything that OFBiz does to the next level.
>>
>> I guess the big question is, what's next to help get some of these backend
>> ideas back into this newly refined mission?  We're more than happy to devote
>> resources to making this happen.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Ruppert
>> --
>> Tim Ruppert
>> HotWax Media
>> http://www.hotwaxmedia.com
>>
>> o:801.649.6594
>> f:801.649.6595
>>
>> On Oct 29, 2009, at 7:47 AM, Marc Morin wrote:
>>
>>> As many of you know, we at Emforium have been busy building out a full set
>>> of business software application to provide an "ALL-IN" comprehensive
>>> solution for the small business market.  When we started the evaluation over
>>> a year ago, Ofbiz was the selected platform of choice.  Other components are
>>> Zimbra for email and concrete5 for web.
>>>
>>> Over this time, we've spent our efforts providing an entirely new UI front
>>> end for the backend applications: sales order, inventory, CRM, admin,
>>> reports, multi tenancy, published datasets (makes solution targeted for any
>>> market or geography), etc...
>>>
>>> We have expressed privately that Ofbiz needs to have a new mission in
>>> order to really drive it's importance and relevance as an open source
>>> project.  As it stands, it's scope is very wide, and not targeted a
>>> providing and out-of-the box solution to any problem, save ecommerce (even
>>> then, lot's of styling work usually needed).
>>>
>>> We would be 100% behind this direction for Ofbiz.  We'd want to contribute
>>> back components now that are Emforium proprietary and would work to reduce
>>> the amount of deviation between our proprietary solution and this newly
>>> stated direction.
>>>
>>> Marc
>>
>>

[David E. Jones-2]

That's an interesting perspective. It's definitely true that if you don't collaborate on design and underlying data and such that you'll end up with a huge mess of incompatible "features".

I agree that it is an advantage of OFBiz that when differences come up in how people want to do things it usually leads to conversation about it, and often to a reconciliation that works for various concerns, instead of just ending up in a bunch of totally different, incompatible, and marginally useful functionality for general needs.

I'm definitely of the opinion that bad design is the #1 problem with enterprise software today, and doing things in a way that encourages collaboration and peer feedback can help with this a lot. It's certainly not perfect, but I'd wager that it is far better than what normally happens, and what actually happens in much other open source and commercial software.

-David


On Dec 17, 2009, at 4:25 PM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:

> Addons are certainly a good idea. But a good handling of them is also required (in other words they should never interfer).
> I have a prospective customer (IT manager), who said that his company is using OpenERP (Python) but he is worried about the mess
> addons bring. He talked by experience...
> I remember also have read that some OsCommerce (PHP) users turned to Magento (PHP) because of addons issues
> Maybe Apache Felix (OSGi Service Platform Release 4 implementation) is also to consider. But at longer term I guess
> http://felix.apache.org/site/index.html
>
> Also it's worth to be noted http://markmail.org/message/zyvtk67scqtriqf7
> Also http://opentaps.org/docs/index.php/Ofbiz-osgi-prototype (contributed by Raj actually I will put it in OFBiz also a day or another)
>
> My 2cts
>
> Jacques
>
> From: "Bruno Busco" <[hidden email]>
>> Having OFBiz splitted in a core framework and add-on modules seems to
>> me like a must if we want to improve features.
>> Add-on modules is how many large and popular projects are built.
>> Even OpenERP says to have more that 350 modules and offers different
>> flavours of it here http://www.openerp.com/discover/demonstration.html
>>
>> I think we should start discussing on the module add-on system that we
>> want to implement in OFBiz.
>> I have read that there is a plan from Neogia people to introduce what
>> they have developed. Is there any schedule for this?
>> Are you going to write a Confluence page where we can see how it works?
>>
>> Are we going to host the add-on modules on a separate SVN folder?
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Bruno
>>
>> 2009/10/29 Tim Ruppert <[hidden email]>:
>>> This sounds fantastic Marc - it's amazing to see many of the software
>>> providers out there coming together to back this idea. This has the unique
>>> opportunity of taking everything that OFBiz does to the next level.
>>>
>>> I guess the big question is, what's next to help get some of these backend
>>> ideas back into this newly refined mission? We're more than happy to devote
>>> resources to making this happen.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Ruppert
>>> --
>>> Tim Ruppert
>>> HotWax Media
>>> http://www.hotwaxmedia.com
>>>
>>> o:801.649.6594
>>> f:801.649.6595
>>>
>>> On Oct 29, 2009, at 7:47 AM, Marc Morin wrote:
>>>
>>>> As many of you know, we at Emforium have been busy building out a full set
>>>> of business software application to provide an "ALL-IN" comprehensive
>>>> solution for the small business market. When we started the evaluation over
>>>> a year ago, Ofbiz was the selected platform of choice. Other components are
>>>> Zimbra for email and concrete5 for web.
>>>>
>>>> Over this time, we've spent our efforts providing an entirely new UI front
>>>> end for the backend applications: sales order, inventory, CRM, admin,
>>>> reports, multi tenancy, published datasets (makes solution targeted for any
>>>> market or geography), etc...
>>>>
>>>> We have expressed privately that Ofbiz needs to have a new mission in
>>>> order to really drive it's importance and relevance as an open source
>>>> project. As it stands, it's scope is very wide, and not targeted a
>>>> providing and out-of-the box solution to any problem, save ecommerce (even
>>>> then, lot's of styling work usually needed).
>>>>
>>>> We would be 100% behind this direction for Ofbiz. We'd want to contribute
>>>> back components now that are Emforium proprietary and would work to reduce
>>>> the amount of deviation between our proprietary solution and this newly
>>>> stated direction.
>>>>
>>>> Marc
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

[rajsaini]

I am a big fan of OSGi and I feel it is a right component management
technology to manage big project like OFBiz. This is one of the best to
manage the component dependencies. I will work further on the OFBiz-OSGi
and put more examples of how new bundles (aka plug-ins) can be developed.

Thanks,

Raj

Jacques Le Roux wrote:

> Addons are certainly a good idea. But a good handling of them is also
> required (in other words they should never interfer).
> I have a prospective customer (IT manager), who said that his company
> is using OpenERP (Python) but he is worried about the mess
> addons bring. He talked by experience...
> I remember also have read that some OsCommerce (PHP) users turned to
> Magento (PHP) because of addons issues
> Maybe Apache Felix (OSGi Service Platform Release 4 implementation) is
> also to consider. But at longer term I guess
> http://felix.apache.org/site/index.html
>
> Also it's worth to be noted http://markmail.org/message/zyvtk67scqtriqf7
> Also http://opentaps.org/docs/index.php/Ofbiz-osgi-prototype 
> (contributed by Raj actually I will put it in OFBiz also a day or
> another)
>
> My 2cts
>
> Jacques
>
> From: "Bruno Busco" <[hidden email]>
>> Having OFBiz splitted in a core framework and add-on modules seems to
>> me like a must if we want to improve features.
>> Add-on modules is how many large and popular projects are built.
>> Even OpenERP says to have more that 350 modules and offers different
>> flavours of it here http://www.openerp.com/discover/demonstration.html
>>
>> I think we should start discussing on the module add-on system that we
>> want to implement in OFBiz.
>> I have read that there is a plan from Neogia people to introduce what
>> they have developed. Is there any schedule for this?
>> Are you going to write a Confluence page where we can see how it works?
>>
>> Are we going to host the add-on modules on a separate SVN folder?
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Bruno
>>
>> 2009/10/29 Tim Ruppert <[hidden email]>:
>>> This sounds fantastic Marc - it's amazing to see many of the software
>>> providers out there coming together to back this idea. This has the
>>> unique
>>> opportunity of taking everything that OFBiz does to the next level.
>>>
>>> I guess the big question is, what's next to help get some of these
>>> backend
>>> ideas back into this newly refined mission? We're more than happy to
>>> devote
>>> resources to making this happen.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Ruppert
>>> --
>>> Tim Ruppert
>>> HotWax Media
>>> http://www.hotwaxmedia.com
>>>
>>> o:801.649.6594
>>> f:801.649.6595
>>>
>>> On Oct 29, 2009, at 7:47 AM, Marc Morin wrote:
>>>
>>>> As many of you know, we at Emforium have been busy building out a
>>>> full set
>>>> of business software application to provide an "ALL-IN" comprehensive
>>>> solution for the small business market. When we started the
>>>> evaluation over
>>>> a year ago, Ofbiz was the selected platform of choice. Other
>>>> components are
>>>> Zimbra for email and concrete5 for web.
>>>>
>>>> Over this time, we've spent our efforts providing an entirely new
>>>> UI front
>>>> end for the backend applications: sales order, inventory, CRM, admin,
>>>> reports, multi tenancy, published datasets (makes solution targeted
>>>> for any
>>>> market or geography), etc...
>>>>
>>>> We have expressed privately that Ofbiz needs to have a new mission in
>>>> order to really drive it's importance and relevance as an open source
>>>> project. As it stands, it's scope is very wide, and not targeted a
>>>> providing and out-of-the box solution to any problem, save
>>>> ecommerce (even
>>>> then, lot's of styling work usually needed).
>>>>
>>>> We would be 100% behind this direction for Ofbiz. We'd want to
>>>> contribute
>>>> back components now that are Emforium proprietary and would work to
>>>> reduce
>>>> the amount of deviation between our proprietary solution and this
>>>> newly
>>>> stated direction.
>>>>
>>>> Marc
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>

[chris snow]

Hi David,

The problem that I have with the components is that they are an all or nothing proposition.  For example, due to dependencies, I have not been able to use the party management component on its own without first manually removing the dependencies to other application components.

Cheers,

Chris

David E Jones-4 wrote

On Dec 17, 2009, at 3:46 PM, Bruno Busco wrote:

> Having OFBiz splitted in a core framework and add-on modules seems to
> me like a must if we want to improve features.
> Add-on modules is how many large and popular projects are built.
> Even OpenERP says to have more that 350 modules and offers different
> flavours of it here http://www.openerp.com/discover/demonstration.html

We already have a plugin, or add-on, or whatever you want to call it, facility: components.

> I think we should start discussing on the module add-on system that we
> want to implement in OFBiz.
> I have read that there is a plan from Neogia people to introduce what
> they have developed. Is there any schedule for this?
> Are you going to write a Confluence page where we can see how it works?
>
> Are we going to host the add-on modules on a separate SVN folder?

It seems the whole point of add-on modules is to NOT have them be part of the project. The intellectual property issues and concerns are totally different from the main project, and the licensing may not be compatible with what the ASF requires, so no I really don't think it would make sense to have a place for more loosely managed stuff in SVN.

On the other hand, we already have a place for add-on modules in SVN: the specialpurpose directory.

Consider that the framework and applications directories are the basis of OFBiz, and everything else is an add-on of sorts. The applications are important so that add-on components can use the common data model for implicit integration, unless the add-on application won't be doing anything with common business data, and then it only needs depend on the framework.

Now getting back to the point... I think you already know all of this Bruno, so what is it that you'd like to see that OFBiz does not already have?

-David


> 2009/10/29 Tim Ruppert <[e-mail]>:
>> This sounds fantastic Marc - it's amazing to see many of the software
>> providers out there coming together to back this idea.  This has the unique
>> opportunity of taking everything that OFBiz does to the next level.
>>
>> I guess the big question is, what's next to help get some of these backend
>> ideas back into this newly refined mission?  We're more than happy to devote
>> resources to making this happen.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Ruppert
>> --
>> Tim Ruppert
>> HotWax Media
>> http://www.hotwaxmedia.com
>>
>> o:801.649.6594
>> f:801.649.6595
>>
>> On Oct 29, 2009, at 7:47 AM, Marc Morin wrote:
>>
>>> As many of you know, we at Emforium have been busy building out a full set
>>> of business software application to provide an "ALL-IN" comprehensive
>>> solution for the small business market.  When we started the evaluation over
>>> a year ago, Ofbiz was the selected platform of choice.  Other components are
>>> Zimbra for email and concrete5 for web.
>>>
>>> Over this time, we've spent our efforts providing an entirely new UI front
>>> end for the backend applications: sales order, inventory, CRM, admin,
>>> reports, multi tenancy, published datasets (makes solution targeted for any
>>> market or geography), etc...
>>>
>>> We have expressed privately that Ofbiz needs to have a new mission in
>>> order to really drive it's importance and relevance as an open source
>>> project.  As it stands, it's scope is very wide, and not targeted a
>>> providing and out-of-the box solution to any problem, save ecommerce (even
>>> then, lot's of styling work usually needed).
>>>
>>> We would be 100% behind this direction for Ofbiz.  We'd want to contribute
>>> back components now that are Emforium proprietary and would work to reduce
>>> the amount of deviation between our proprietary solution and this newly
>>> stated direction.
>>>
>>> Marc
>>
>>