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Suraj Khurana-2

Create return till ...

Hello,

In OFBiz, we can create a return for order without checking when that order
is placed, it might be years long.
IMO, we should have a field something like daysToReturn at product store
level to allow creating return till after that much days of order
completion.

I could not find anything else relevant to this and this is a very common
e-commerce scenario for any business.

Am I missing something?
Please share your thoughts on the same.

--
Best Regards
Suraj Khurana
TECHNICAL CONSULTANT
mobile: +91 9669750002
email: [hidden email]
www.hotwax.co

Vaibhav Jain

Re: Create return till ...

Hello Suraj,

*Bottom Line:*
We should have a field to manage days to Return at the product and product
store level both.

*Story:*
We have a flag on the product level to manage that product is returnable or
not.
We can not manage the information on the product store level only because
each product is returnable for a different and specific time period
(depends on business).
We can manage this on the product store level which can be used if
the product is returnable but days to return is not specified on
the product level.

Does this make sense to you as well?

Kind Regards,
*Vaibhav Jain* | Senior Enterprise Software Engineer
HotWax Systems <http://www.hotwaxsystems.com/>
Plot no. 80, Scheme no. 78 Part 2, Near Brilliant Convention Center, Indore,
M.P 452010
Linkedin: *Vaibhav Jain* <https://www.linkedin.com/in/vaibhav-jain-170793/>

On Sat, Mar 9, 2019 at 1:20 PM Suraj Khurana <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hello,
>
> In OFBiz, we can create a return for order without checking when that order
> is placed, it might be years long.
> IMO, we should have a field something like daysToReturn at product store
> level to allow creating return till after that much days of order
> completion.
>
> I could not find anything else relevant to this and this is a very common
> e-commerce scenario for any business.
>
> Am I missing something?
> Please share your thoughts on the same.
>
> --
> Best Regards
> Suraj Khurana
> TECHNICAL CONSULTANT
> mobile: +91 9669750002
> email: [hidden email]
> www.hotwax.co
>

Pierre Smits-3

Re: Create return till ...

I am inclined to disagree.

At product level this can be solved by setting one or more attributes. So
no additional field required to cater for this. At store level we could
work with value set in appropriate system properties. Also no entity change
required.

Best regards,

Pierre Smits

*Apache Trafodion <https://trafodion.apache.org>, Vice President*
*Apache Directory <https://directory.apache.org>, PMC Member*
Apache Incubator <https://incubator.apache.org>, committer
*Apache OFBiz <https://ofbiz.apache.org>, contributor (without privileges)
since 2008*
Apache Steve <https://steve.apache.org>, committer

On Sat, Mar 9, 2019 at 11:09 AM Vaibhav Jain <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hello Suraj,
>
> *Bottom Line:*
> We should have a field to manage days to Return at the product and product
> store level both.
>
> *Story:*
> We have a flag on the product level to manage that product is returnable or
> not.
> We can not manage the information on the product store level only because
> each product is returnable for a different and specific time period
> (depends on business).
> We can manage this on the product store level which can be used if
> the product is returnable but days to return is not specified on
> the product level.
>
> Does this make sense to you as well?
>
> Kind Regards,
> *Vaibhav Jain* | Senior Enterprise Software Engineer
> HotWax Systems <http://www.hotwaxsystems.com/>
> Plot no. 80, Scheme no. 78 Part 2, Near Brilliant Convention Center,
> Indore,
> M.P 452010
> Linkedin: *Vaibhav Jain* <https://www.linkedin.com/in/vaibhav-jain-170793/
> >
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 9, 2019 at 1:20 PM Suraj Khurana <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > In OFBiz, we can create a return for order without checking when that
> order
> > is placed, it might be years long.
> > IMO, we should have a field something like daysToReturn at product store
> > level to allow creating return till after that much days of order
> > completion.
> >
> > I could not find anything else relevant to this and this is a very common
> > e-commerce scenario for any business.
> >
> > Am I missing something?
> > Please share your thoughts on the same.
> >
> > --
> > Best Regards
> > Suraj Khurana
> > TECHNICAL CONSULTANT
> > mobile: +91 9669750002
> > email: [hidden email]
> > www.hotwax.co
> >
>

Rishi Solanki

Re: Create return till ...

In reply to this post by Suraj Khurana-2

+1 for having this. The only thing I would like to add go for global
setting which should be overridden by product level setting. For example; A
site may deal in industry which may require different number of days for
the different products.
Also agree with Pierre on point we should be aware of the fact that
unnecessary data model extension should be avoided.

Question: how should we manage if we would like to have two store and for
both stores we want to have different number of days limit for return.
My Answer: While configuring the store the System property should be
configured against prefix/suffix of store id.

Please feel free to add more details or alternative way for handling this.

Best Regards,
--
Rishi Solanki
Sr Manager, Enterprise Software Development
HotWax Systems Pvt. Ltd.
Direct: +91-9893287847
http://www.hotwaxsystems.com
www.hotwax.co

On Sat, Mar 9, 2019 at 1:20 PM Suraj Khurana <[hidden email]>
wrote:

Arun Patidar-2

Re: Create return till ...

We can use ProductFacility entity for storing number of days and can copy
to it to OrderItem during order creation.

Kind Regards,
*Arun Patidar* | Manager, Enterprise Development
HotWax Systems <http://www.hotwaxsystems.com/>
Plot no. 80, Scheme no. 78 Part 2, Near Brilliant Convention Center,
Indore, M.P. 452010
Linkedin: *Arun Patidar* <https://www.linkedin.com/in/arunpatidar>

On Sat, Mar 9, 2019 at 4:37 PM Rishi Solanki <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> +1 for having this. The only thing I would like to add go for global
> setting which should be overridden by product level setting. For example; A
> site may deal in industry which may require different number of days for
> the different products.
> Also agree with Pierre on point we should be aware of the fact that
> unnecessary data model extension should be avoided.
>
> Question: how should we manage if we would like to have two store and for
> both stores we want to have different number of days limit for return.
> My Answer: While configuring the store the System property should be
> configured against prefix/suffix of store id.
>
> Please feel free to add more details or alternative way for handling this.
>
> Best Regards,
> --
> Rishi Solanki
> Sr Manager, Enterprise Software Development
> HotWax Systems Pvt. Ltd.
> Direct: +91-9893287847
> http://www.hotwaxsystems.com
> www.hotwax.co
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 9, 2019 at 1:20 PM Suraj Khurana <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > In OFBiz, we can create a return for order without checking when that
> order
> > is placed, it might be years long.
> > IMO, we should have a field something like daysToReturn at product store
> > level to allow creating return till after that much days of order
> > completion.
> >
> > I could not find anything else relevant to this and this is a very common
> > e-commerce scenario for any business.
> >
> > Am I missing something?
> > Please share your thoughts on the same.
> >
> > --
> > Best Regards
> > Suraj Khurana
> > TECHNICAL CONSULTANT
> > mobile: +91 9669750002
> > email: [hidden email]
> > www.hotwax.co
> >
>

Vaibhav Jain

Re: Create return till ...

Agree with Arun,

Just an addon
If we are using ProductFacility entity then we should think to move the
returnable flag from product to the productFacility entity.

Kind Regards,
*Vaibhav Jain* | Senior Enterprise Software Engineer
HotWax Systems <http://www.hotwaxsystems.com/>
Plot no. 80, Scheme no. 78 Part 2, Near Brilliant Convention Center, Indore,
M.P 452010
Linkedin: *Vaibhav Jain* <https://www.linkedin.com/in/vaibhav-jain-170793/>

On Sat, Mar 9, 2019 at 5:45 PM Arun Patidar <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> We can use ProductFacility entity for storing number of days and can copy
> to it to OrderItem during order creation.
>
>
> Kind Regards,
> *Arun Patidar* | Manager, Enterprise Development
> HotWax Systems <http://www.hotwaxsystems.com/>
> Plot no. 80, Scheme no. 78 Part 2, Near Brilliant Convention Center,
> Indore, M.P. 452010
> Linkedin: *Arun Patidar* <https://www.linkedin.com/in/arunpatidar>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 9, 2019 at 4:37 PM Rishi Solanki <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > +1 for having this. The only thing I would like to add go for global
> > setting which should be overridden by product level setting. For
> example; A
> > site may deal in industry which may require different number of days for
> > the different products.
> > Also agree with Pierre on point we should be aware of the fact that
> > unnecessary data model extension should be avoided.
> >
> > Question: how should we manage if we would like to have two store and for
> > both stores we want to have different number of days limit for return.
> > My Answer: While configuring the store the System property should be
> > configured against prefix/suffix of store id.
> >
> > Please feel free to add more details or alternative way for handling
> this.
> >
> > Best Regards,
> > --
> > Rishi Solanki
> > Sr Manager, Enterprise Software Development
> > HotWax Systems Pvt. Ltd.
> > Direct: +91-9893287847
> > http://www.hotwaxsystems.com
> > www.hotwax.co
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Mar 9, 2019 at 1:20 PM Suraj Khurana <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > In OFBiz, we can create a return for order without checking when that
> > order
> > > is placed, it might be years long.
> > > IMO, we should have a field something like daysToReturn at product
> store
> > > level to allow creating return till after that much days of order
> > > completion.
> > >
> > > I could not find anything else relevant to this and this is a very
> common
> > > e-commerce scenario for any business.
> > >
> > > Am I missing something?
> > > Please share your thoughts on the same.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Best Regards
> > > Suraj Khurana
> > > TECHNICAL CONSULTANT
> > > mobile: +91 9669750002
> > > email: [hidden email]
> > > www.hotwax.co
> > >
> >
>

Pierre Smits-3

Re: Create return till ...

In reply to this post by Rishi Solanki

Following up on Rishi's posting.
I believe we are good entity-wise (meaning: we may be able to avoid using
system property setting, with complex prefix/suffix constructs).

Product can have Attribute settings. So can ProductCategory, see [1].

We can associate products with different ProductCategory values, and have
these different ProductCategory be associated with different ProductStore
values through the ProductCatalog (via ProductStoreCatalog), do ensure the
defaults/overrides. It may be a complex way to calculate, but the solution
will be scalable.

Otherwise, we can add the ProductStoreAttribute entity to simplify matters
to facilitate this, and other - future - field addition requirements on
ProductStore level.

[1] ProductCategoryAttribute
<https://demo-trunk.ofbiz.apache.org/webtools/control/FindGeneric?entityName=ProductCategoryAttribute>

<https://demo-trunk.ofbiz.apache.org/webtools/control/FindGeneric?entityName=ProductCategoryAttribute>

Best regards,

Pierre Smits

*Apache Trafodion <https://trafodion.apache.org>, Vice President*
*Apache Directory <https://directory.apache.org>, PMC Member*
Apache Incubator <https://incubator.apache.org>, committer
*Apache OFBiz <https://ofbiz.apache.org>, contributor (without privileges)
since 2008*
Apache Steve <https://steve.apache.org>, committer

On Sat, Mar 9, 2019 at 12:07 PM Rishi Solanki <[hidden email]>
wrote:

Pierre Smits-3

Re: Create return till ...

In reply to this post by Arun Patidar-2

I don't think that the solution provided by ProductFacility will offer a
good solution. I will - again - require a field to be added to the entity.
And user would need to propagate the value to field for each
product-facility combo. Consider Multiple store, multiple warehouse.... a
big burden on the adopter's employees. And it does not give store defaults.

We also have to keep in mind that this requirement is at a higher level,
namely at agreement/order level. There the details must be captured,
because - when agreed upon - they provide the particulars at a binding
contract, that will propagate into lower level (namely receipt of the goods
returned). And yes, the settings at store/product level (should) feed into
orders, but agreement (when established with long-term contract partners)
details may/must override those store/product settings.

As always, ad-hoc business decisions may override long-standing (technical)
terms in store, product and agreement. Giving a customer a few more days
than the default, may lead to having the company retain the customer than
sticking to dogmas. And even then product warranty laws may prevail.

Best regards,

Pierre Smits

*Apache Trafodion <https://trafodion.apache.org>, Vice President*
*Apache Directory <https://directory.apache.org>, PMC Member*
Apache Incubator <https://incubator.apache.org>, committer
*Apache OFBiz <https://ofbiz.apache.org>, contributor (without privileges)
since 2008*
Apache Steve <https://steve.apache.org>, committer

On Sat, Mar 9, 2019 at 1:15 PM Arun Patidar <[hidden email]>
wrote:

Pierre Smits-3

Re: Create return till ...

I meant the solution suggested by Arun regarding ProductFacility.

Best regards,

Pierre Smits

*Apache Trafodion <https://trafodion.apache.org>, Vice President*
*Apache Directory <https://directory.apache.org>, PMC Member*
Apache Incubator <https://incubator.apache.org>, committer
*Apache OFBiz <https://ofbiz.apache.org>, contributor (without privileges)
since 2008*
Apache Steve <https://steve.apache.org>, committer

On Sat, Mar 9, 2019 at 2:50 PM Pierre Smits <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I don't think that the solution provided by ProductFacility will offer a
> good solution. I will - again - require a field to be added to the entity.
> And user would need to propagate the value to field for each
> product-facility combo. Consider Multiple store, multiple warehouse.... a
> big burden on the adopter's employees. And it does not give store defaults.
>
> We also have to keep in mind that this requirement is at a higher level,
> namely at agreement/order level. There the details must be captured,
> because - when agreed upon - they provide the particulars at a binding
> contract, that will propagate into lower level (namely receipt of the goods
> returned). And yes, the settings at store/product level (should) feed into
> orders, but agreement (when established with long-term contract partners)
> details may/must override those store/product settings.
>
> As always, ad-hoc business decisions may override long-standing
> (technical) terms in store, product and agreement. Giving a customer a few
> more days than the default, may lead to having the company retain the
> customer than sticking to dogmas. And even then product warranty laws may
> prevail.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Pierre Smits
>
> *Apache Trafodion <https://trafodion.apache.org>, Vice President*
> *Apache Directory <https://directory.apache.org>, PMC Member*
> Apache Incubator <https://incubator.apache.org>, committer
> *Apache OFBiz <https://ofbiz.apache.org>, contributor (without privileges)
> since 2008*
> Apache Steve <https://steve.apache.org>, committer
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 9, 2019 at 1:15 PM Arun Patidar <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> We can use ProductFacility entity for storing number of days and can copy
>> to it to OrderItem during order creation.
>>
>>
>> Kind Regards,
>> *Arun Patidar* | Manager, Enterprise Development
>> HotWax Systems <http://www.hotwaxsystems.com/>
>> Plot no. 80, Scheme no. 78 Part 2, Near Brilliant Convention Center,
>> Indore, M.P. 452010
>> Linkedin: *Arun Patidar* <https://www.linkedin.com/in/arunpatidar>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 9, 2019 at 4:37 PM Rishi Solanki <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > +1 for having this. The only thing I would like to add go for global
>> > setting which should be overridden by product level setting. For
>> example; A
>> > site may deal in industry which may require different number of days
>> for
>> > the different products.
>> > Also agree with Pierre on point we should be aware of the fact that
>> > unnecessary data model extension should be avoided.
>> >
>> > Question: how should we manage if we would like to have two store and
>> for
>> > both stores we want to have different number of days limit for return.
>> > My Answer: While configuring the store the System property should be
>> > configured against prefix/suffix of store id.
>> >
>> > Please feel free to add more details or alternative way for handling
>> this.
>> >
>> > Best Regards,
>> > --
>> > Rishi Solanki
>> > Sr Manager, Enterprise Software Development
>> > HotWax Systems Pvt. Ltd.
>> > Direct: +91-9893287847
>> > http://www.hotwaxsystems.com
>> > www.hotwax.co
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sat, Mar 9, 2019 at 1:20 PM Suraj Khurana <[hidden email]>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > Hello,
>> > >
>> > > In OFBiz, we can create a return for order without checking when that
>> > order
>> > > is placed, it might be years long.
>> > > IMO, we should have a field something like daysToReturn at product
>> store
>> > > level to allow creating return till after that much days of order
>> > > completion.
>> > >
>> > > I could not find anything else relevant to this and this is a very
>> common
>> > > e-commerce scenario for any business.
>> > >
>> > > Am I missing something?
>> > > Please share your thoughts on the same.
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Best Regards
>> > > Suraj Khurana
>> > > TECHNICAL CONSULTANT
>> > > mobile: +91 9669750002
>> > > email: [hidden email]
>> > > www.hotwax.co
>> > >
>> >
>>
>

Scott Gray-3

Re: Create return till ...

In reply to this post by Suraj Khurana-2

The ability to create a return doesn't necessarily mean that return will be
accepted. IMO this is a business process where human intervention is
required in order to maintain good customer relations. Approving/declining
RMAs depend on a number of factors including:
- the reason for return
- length of time since purchase
- value of the purchase
- COGS
- lifetime value of the customer

A hard time limit can make sense when a customer simply changes their mind
about the purchase and wishes to return it but I don't think any other type
of return should be constrained by the system without input from customer
service reps.

IMO a better system would be to have information critical to the RMA
process (such as the items listed above) easily accessible to the CSR so
they can quick make a decision. Having the system prevent customers from
even creating a return request because X number of days have passed could
well be a bad user experience for the customer.

If the implementation does proceed, I don't think ProductFacility would be
a good place to store the information. Multiple stores with different
rules could well be fulfilling the same products out of the same warehouse
(particularly for international distribution).

Regards
Scott

On Sat, 9 Mar 2019 at 20:50, Suraj Khurana <[hidden email]> wrote:

Suraj Khurana-2

Re: Create return till ...

Hello Scott,

Thank you so much for your response. Yes, this is the exact way it is been
managed currently.

Thing is, we need to improve customer experience and reduce customer
service reps work. The current approach is working but it totally depends
on business to business. Some of them may leave it on CSR, on the other
hand, some must be looking for a date (timespan) which can be used to not
allow returns for any specific order (ex returns are not allowed in stock
clearance).

Not making current flow as totally obsolete, but I guess we should have
something to support this as well OOTB.

--
Best Regards,
Suraj Khurana
TECHNICAL CONSULTANT
mobile: +91 9669750002
email: [hidden email]
*www.hotwax.co <http://www.hotwax.co/>*

On Mon, Mar 11, 2019 at 7:31 AM Scott Gray <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> The ability to create a return doesn't necessarily mean that return will be
> accepted. IMO this is a business process where human intervention is
> required in order to maintain good customer relations. Approving/declining
> RMAs depend on a number of factors including:
> - the reason for return
> - length of time since purchase
> - value of the purchase
> - COGS
> - lifetime value of the customer
>
> A hard time limit can make sense when a customer simply changes their mind
> about the purchase and wishes to return it but I don't think any other type
> of return should be constrained by the system without input from customer
> service reps.
>
> IMO a better system would be to have information critical to the RMA
> process (such as the items listed above) easily accessible to the CSR so
> they can quick make a decision. Having the system prevent customers from
> even creating a return request because X number of days have passed could
> well be a bad user experience for the customer.
>
> If the implementation does proceed, I don't think ProductFacility would be
> a good place to store the information. Multiple stores with different
> rules could well be fulfilling the same products out of the same warehouse
> (particularly for international distribution).
>
> Regards
> Scott
>
> On Sat, 9 Mar 2019 at 20:50, Suraj Khurana <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > In OFBiz, we can create a return for order without checking when that
> order
> > is placed, it might be years long.
> > IMO, we should have a field something like daysToReturn at product store
> > level to allow creating return till after that much days of order
> > completion.
> >
> > I could not find anything else relevant to this and this is a very common
> > e-commerce scenario for any business.
> >
> > Am I missing something?
> > Please share your thoughts on the same.
> >
> > --
> > Best Regards
> > Suraj Khurana
> > TECHNICAL CONSULTANT
> > mobile: +91 9669750002
> > email: [hidden email]
> > www.hotwax.co
> >
>

Rishi Solanki

Re: Create return till ...

I agree with the approach what Pierre suggested to go with
ProductCategoryAttribute and ProductAttribute. Because for range of
products we may need different default values. Also agree with Scott on the
point there must be flexibility at CSR end to override the rule based on
the reason of return and relationship with customer. That means, we should
not stop CSR to create return if days passed, and simply can popup the
message that number of days have been passed and if she still wants to
continue then she should be able to do that.

After inputs from all, my suggestion is to go for ProductCategoryAttribute
and ProductAttribute configuration but it should not stop CSR to
place/accept return. And simply inform her that number of days has been
passed.

Best Regards,
--
Rishi Solanki
Sr Manager, Enterprise Software Development
HotWax Systems Pvt. Ltd.
Direct: +91-9893287847
http://www.hotwaxsystems.com
www.hotwax.co

On Mon, Mar 11, 2019 at 11:49 AM Suraj Khurana <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hello Scott,
>
> Thank you so much for your response. Yes, this is the exact way it is been
> managed currently.
>
> Thing is, we need to improve customer experience and reduce customer
> service reps work. The current approach is working but it totally depends
> on business to business. Some of them may leave it on CSR, on the other
> hand, some must be looking for a date (timespan) which can be used to not
> allow returns for any specific order (ex returns are not allowed in stock
> clearance).
>
> Not making current flow as totally obsolete, but I guess we should have
> something to support this as well OOTB.
>
> --
> Best Regards,
> Suraj Khurana
> TECHNICAL CONSULTANT
> mobile: +91 9669750002
> email: [hidden email]
> *www.hotwax.co <http://www.hotwax.co/>*
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 11, 2019 at 7:31 AM Scott Gray <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > The ability to create a return doesn't necessarily mean that return will
> be
> > accepted. IMO this is a business process where human intervention is
> > required in order to maintain good customer relations.
> Approving/declining
> > RMAs depend on a number of factors including:
> > - the reason for return
> > - length of time since purchase
> > - value of the purchase
> > - COGS
> > - lifetime value of the customer
> >
> > A hard time limit can make sense when a customer simply changes their
> mind
> > about the purchase and wishes to return it but I don't think any other
> type
> > of return should be constrained by the system without input from customer
> > service reps.
> >
> > IMO a better system would be to have information critical to the RMA
> > process (such as the items listed above) easily accessible to the CSR so
> > they can quick make a decision. Having the system prevent customers from
> > even creating a return request because X number of days have passed could
> > well be a bad user experience for the customer.
> >
> > If the implementation does proceed, I don't think ProductFacility would
> be
> > a good place to store the information. Multiple stores with different
> > rules could well be fulfilling the same products out of the same
> warehouse
> > (particularly for international distribution).
> >
> > Regards
> > Scott
> >
> > On Sat, 9 Mar 2019 at 20:50, Suraj Khurana <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > In OFBiz, we can create a return for order without checking when that
> > order
> > > is placed, it might be years long.
> > > IMO, we should have a field something like daysToReturn at product
> store
> > > level to allow creating return till after that much days of order
> > > completion.
> > >
> > > I could not find anything else relevant to this and this is a very
> common
> > > e-commerce scenario for any business.
> > >
> > > Am I missing something?
> > > Please share your thoughts on the same.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Best Regards
> > > Suraj Khurana
> > > TECHNICAL CONSULTANT
> > > mobile: +91 9669750002
> > > email: [hidden email]
> > > www.hotwax.co
> > >
> >
>