[DISCUSSION] Improving the OFBiz User Interface
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Improving the OFBiz User Interface
 
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Improving the OFBiz User Interface
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Hi Taher,
I agree that all ressources like images, css etc. should be moved away in a foundation component. I am not sure if I can follow your suggestion to move everything web-related from the framework to another component. In my mind, the foundation for the UI development (Renderer, macro libraries, transformers etc.) should reside in the framework. I think it would be also a too big move to rewrite/move all this at once and has not enough visible impact for users to be highly prioritized. For me, a new and modern UI would be the highest priority at the moment. I hope that this will attract more contributors and more users to grow the community. After this, more restructuring and separation can be done. At ecomify, we are currently evaluating if we can set a team on it to implement a new UI. It will be a lot of work and a big effort for us but I think it's worth it. We'll see how this will work out and how we can contribute this back to the project. Best regards, Michael Brohl ecomify GmbH www.ecomify.de Am 04.07.17 um 20:53 schrieb Taher Alkhateeb: > I agree with Michael, baby steps for the win. I propose we perhaps > just postpone "big ideas" for now and focus on things that can get > results quickly to put life back into this initiative. Maybe next > actions could be the following: > > - Create a base theme > - Move all artifacts from framework/images to the base theme (jquery, > bootstrap or whatever already exists) and do the rewiring. Also look > for any web artifacts anywhere and move them to the base theme. > Essentially, remove any thing that is web-based and centralize it in > the theme. > - Create an implementation theme on top of the base theme > > Once the above is done, then we can have a discussion of what to do > next. There are _many_ ideas, but I will restrain myself this time > until we get some action first :) > > On Tue, Jul 4, 2017 at 6:31 PM, Jacques Le Roux > <[hidden email]> wrote: >> Le 04/07/2017 à 16:57, Michael Brohl a écrit : >>> Hi James, >>> >>> thanks for your suggestions. >>> >>> As far as I know, JSF would introduce some new technologies because it >>> relies on beans and JSP's (correct me if I'm wrong). I'm not sure if we want >>> to go so far. >> >> Facelet is now the recommended technology for JSF >> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/2095397/what-is-the-difference-between-jsf-servlet-and-jsp >> and both are parts of JavaEE. >> >> I agree with Michael and would not like to change OFBiz widgets for JSF. Not >> that I don't like nor trust JSF (and Oracle, but then a bit less), but the >> work is overwhelming and obviously we don't have the resources for that. >> >>> I digged a little deeper into the UI stuff, templates and theming and have >>> to correct my summary a bit: I mentioned AngularJS and Bootstrap on the same >>> level which is like comparing apples and oranges. AngularJS is a client-side >>> JavaScript framework to build single page applications, icluding his own >>> model-view-controller mechanism while Bootsrap is a CSS framework which >>> provides comprehensive UI elements in a structured way. >>> >>> I guess that the use of Angular would need a whole lot more changes in >>> OFBiz than the use of Bootstrap. >>> >>> So I tend to think that we have to agree on a CSS framework like Bootstrap >>> and rewrite the UI to use the proper CSS classes for this framework. That >>> would possibly reduce the complexity and makes this statement of mine >>> obsolete: >>> >>>> - we will need a new approach to be able to "plug in" different UI >>>> frameworks. We'll need a UI layer who represents the screen contents in an >>>> abstracted way (possbly an enhanced Freemarker macro library) and make it >>>> possible to generate HTML code with the right css attributes for the target >>>> library. >>> It's maybe too ambitious wanting OFBiz to be able to be used with >>> different frameworks. The Bootstrap CSS world is well documented [1] and >>> there are a lot of really good looking and functional free templates out >>> there. So if we provide the UI code for it, together with one basic theme, >>> users can put their own themes on top of it. >>> >>> Maybe this is a way to come to a competitive UI in a relative short amount >>> of time. I don't think that we can afford to make this a year-long project. >>> >>> What do others think? >> >> I agree that using Bootstrap would be a good thing. An alternative is >> Foundation https://www.keycdn.com/blog/bootstrap-vs-foundation, this could >> be possibly discussed. >> That's what ilscipio has used, with some success at the UI level I'd say >> (they now tend to lean to Foundation). Now they derived from OFBiz at other >> technology levels (no or less form widgets but more FTL macros, even an API >> of FTL macros). So I'd try to compare the rest... >> >> I'd also let Angular out of the picture. Some prefer React (initially from >> FB) and I wonder what those who have used Angular 1 think about Angular 2! I >> also remember another Google "attempt": GWT. Are there still people using it >> with OFBiz? I guess you get my point, trends pass and tools with them... >> >> Jacques >> >> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> Michael Brohl >>> ecomify GmbH >>> www.ecomify.de >>> >>> [1] https://www.w3schools.com/bootstrap/bootstrap_ref_all_classes.asp >>> >>> >>> Am 03.07.17 um 15:00 schrieb James Yong: >>>> Hi Michael and all, >>>> >>>> We can look into JSF 2.2 as a possible candidate. It is similar to OFBiz >>>> Widget and seems to fit the new requirements described so far in this >>>> thread. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> James Yong >>>> >>>> On 2017-07-03 17:42 (+0800), Michael Brohl <[hidden email]> >>>> wrote: >>>>> Hi Sharan, >>>>> >>>>> thanks for the reminder. >>>>> >>>>> It's fine to have another theme to choose for the "old" UI, I just want >>>>> to point out that (in my mind) the new theme/UI initiative goes far >>>>> beyond having just another theme on base of the current technological >>>>> stack: >>>>> >>>>> - new themes should be responsive >>>>> >>>>> - we should be able to use different UI frameworks like Bootstrap and >>>>> AngularJS who take care of responsiveness and browser compatibility >>>>> >>>>> - it must be easy for developers to write the screen structure and also >>>>> easy for webdesigners to build a good design on base of this >>>>> >>>>> - developers should not care about CSS styles and classes, and >>>>> webdesigners should not cara about how the screen snippets are put >>>>> together or how the screens get their data. >>>>> >>>>> - we will need a new approach to be able to "plug in" different UI >>>>> frameworks. We'll need a UI layer who represents the screen contents in >>>>> an abstracted way (possbly an enhanced Freemarker macro library) and >>>>> make it possible to generate HTML code with the right css attributes for >>>>> the target library. >>>>> >>>>> - a rewrite of the screens will be necessary to make the UI less >>>>> cluttered and overloaded. This will require some concepts/design work >>>>> beforehand >>>>> >>>>> - there are surely many other possible requirements (I am not a UX or >>>>> web design expert) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I appreciate the contribution of the new theme. I am also sure that this >>>>> will not solve the challenge to drive OFBiz to another level, UI wise. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks and regards, >>>>> >>>>> Michael Brohl >>>>> ecomify GmbH >>>>> www.ecomify.de >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Am 03.07.17 um 10:52 schrieb Sharan Foga: >>>>>> Hi All >>>>>> >>>>>> Don't forget that we also had the offer of a theme from Provolve and >>>>>> Stannah. >>>>>> >>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-6985 >>>>>> >>>>>> This is a theme that they are using at the moment (so it working) and >>>>>> have said it could be contributed back to the project. If it's only a >>>>>> case of having someone volunteer to implement it into the trunk then >>>>>> this could be a way to get a nice theme up and running quickly for us. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks >>>>>> Sharan >>>>>> >>>>>> On 03/07/17 10:29, Michael Brohl wrote: >>>>>>> Thanks Nicolas, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> is there anything, even work in progress, you are able to share at >>>>>>> the moment? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This way other could chime in and help moving further. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Michael Brohl >>>>>>> ecomify GmbH >>>>>>> www.ecomify.de >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Am 03.07.17 um 09:26 schrieb Nicolas Malin: >>>>>>>> Hi Michael >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Le 02/07/2017 à 20:42, Michael Brohl a écrit : >>>>>>>>> Hi Julien, all, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'd like to resurrect this discussion and the activities to improve >>>>>>>>> the OFBiz user interface. I think we really should put some focused >>>>>>>>> effort on it if we want OFBiz to be recognized as a modern ERP. >>>>>>>>> Also, if we imporve the UI, more users and also developers will be >>>>>>>>> attracted which will be a win for the community and further >>>>>>>>> development of OFBiz. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Nicolas and others who have started work on this: can you give us >>>>>>>>> an update about the efforts undertaken and where we stand? >>>>>>>> Currently I block on the comon-theme with a good information >>>>>>>> propagation. My next step will be create a dedicate object as >>>>>>>> referent on widget context, but my works has been disturb with the >>>>>>>> framework separation and the git-svn link break. >>>>>>>> Instead of continue, I help some people to work on the groovy >>>>>>>> mini-lang conversion. I plan to improve a few the groovy DSL and >>>>>>>> after I continue the work on commont-theme. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Nicolas >>>>>>> >>>>> >>> |
smime.p7s (5K)
Re: [DISCUSSION] Improving the OFBiz User Interface
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Improving the OFBiz User Interface
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Hi Taher,
do I understand you correctly that you want to move all screen definitions and the ftl template files (containing the html) to a central component outside the framework/applications? Regards, Michael Am 04.07.17 um 23:50 schrieb Taher Alkhateeb: > Hi Michael, > > I think we agree, just a difference in semantics. What I mean by web > is anything CSS, JavaScript, or HTML, not FreeMarker (for now). The > smaller the effort the bigger the chances to move this initiative > forward, so yeah I think we're on the same page. > > On Wed, Jul 5, 2017 at 12:35 AM, Michael Brohl <[hidden email]> wrote: >> Hi Taher, >> >> I agree that all ressources like images, css etc. should be moved away in a >> foundation component. I am not sure if I can follow your suggestion to move >> everything web-related from the framework to another component. In my mind, >> the foundation for the UI development (Renderer, macro libraries, >> transformers etc.) should reside in the framework. >> >> I think it would be also a too big move to rewrite/move all this at once and >> has not enough visible impact for users to be highly prioritized. >> >> For me, a new and modern UI would be the highest priority at the moment. I >> hope that this will attract more contributors and more users to grow the >> community. >> >> After this, more restructuring and separation can be done. >> >> At ecomify, we are currently evaluating if we can set a team on it to >> implement a new UI. It will be a lot of work and a big effort for us but I >> think it's worth it. We'll see how this will work out and how we can >> contribute this back to the project. >> >> Best regards, >> >> Michael Brohl >> ecomify GmbH >> www.ecomify.de >> >> >> Am 04.07.17 um 20:53 schrieb Taher Alkhateeb: >> >>> I agree with Michael, baby steps for the win. I propose we perhaps >>> just postpone "big ideas" for now and focus on things that can get >>> results quickly to put life back into this initiative. Maybe next >>> actions could be the following: >>> >>> - Create a base theme >>> - Move all artifacts from framework/images to the base theme (jquery, >>> bootstrap or whatever already exists) and do the rewiring. Also look >>> for any web artifacts anywhere and move them to the base theme. >>> Essentially, remove any thing that is web-based and centralize it in >>> the theme. >>> - Create an implementation theme on top of the base theme >>> >>> Once the above is done, then we can have a discussion of what to do >>> next. There are _many_ ideas, but I will restrain myself this time >>> until we get some action first :) >>> >>> On Tue, Jul 4, 2017 at 6:31 PM, Jacques Le Roux >>> <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>> Le 04/07/2017 à 16:57, Michael Brohl a écrit : >>>>> Hi James, >>>>> >>>>> thanks for your suggestions. >>>>> >>>>> As far as I know, JSF would introduce some new technologies because it >>>>> relies on beans and JSP's (correct me if I'm wrong). I'm not sure if we >>>>> want >>>>> to go so far. >>>> >>>> Facelet is now the recommended technology for JSF >>>> >>>> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/2095397/what-is-the-difference-between-jsf-servlet-and-jsp >>>> and both are parts of JavaEE. >>>> >>>> I agree with Michael and would not like to change OFBiz widgets for JSF. >>>> Not >>>> that I don't like nor trust JSF (and Oracle, but then a bit less), but >>>> the >>>> work is overwhelming and obviously we don't have the resources for that. >>>> >>>>> I digged a little deeper into the UI stuff, templates and theming and >>>>> have >>>>> to correct my summary a bit: I mentioned AngularJS and Bootstrap on the >>>>> same >>>>> level which is like comparing apples and oranges. AngularJS is a >>>>> client-side >>>>> JavaScript framework to build single page applications, icluding his own >>>>> model-view-controller mechanism while Bootsrap is a CSS framework which >>>>> provides comprehensive UI elements in a structured way. >>>>> >>>>> I guess that the use of Angular would need a whole lot more changes in >>>>> OFBiz than the use of Bootstrap. >>>>> >>>>> So I tend to think that we have to agree on a CSS framework like >>>>> Bootstrap >>>>> and rewrite the UI to use the proper CSS classes for this framework. >>>>> That >>>>> would possibly reduce the complexity and makes this statement of mine >>>>> obsolete: >>>>> >>>>>> - we will need a new approach to be able to "plug in" different UI >>>>>> frameworks. We'll need a UI layer who represents the screen contents in >>>>>> an >>>>>> abstracted way (possbly an enhanced Freemarker macro library) and make >>>>>> it >>>>>> possible to generate HTML code with the right css attributes for the >>>>>> target >>>>>> library. >>>>> It's maybe too ambitious wanting OFBiz to be able to be used with >>>>> different frameworks. The Bootstrap CSS world is well documented [1] and >>>>> there are a lot of really good looking and functional free templates out >>>>> there. So if we provide the UI code for it, together with one basic >>>>> theme, >>>>> users can put their own themes on top of it. >>>>> >>>>> Maybe this is a way to come to a competitive UI in a relative short >>>>> amount >>>>> of time. I don't think that we can afford to make this a year-long >>>>> project. >>>>> >>>>> What do others think? >>>> >>>> I agree that using Bootstrap would be a good thing. An alternative is >>>> Foundation https://www.keycdn.com/blog/bootstrap-vs-foundation, this >>>> could >>>> be possibly discussed. >>>> That's what ilscipio has used, with some success at the UI level I'd say >>>> (they now tend to lean to Foundation). Now they derived from OFBiz at >>>> other >>>> technology levels (no or less form widgets but more FTL macros, even an >>>> API >>>> of FTL macros). So I'd try to compare the rest... >>>> >>>> I'd also let Angular out of the picture. Some prefer React (initially >>>> from >>>> FB) and I wonder what those who have used Angular 1 think about Angular >>>> 2! I >>>> also remember another Google "attempt": GWT. Are there still people using >>>> it >>>> with OFBiz? I guess you get my point, trends pass and tools with them... >>>> >>>> Jacques >>>> >>>> >>>>> Best regards, >>>>> >>>>> Michael Brohl >>>>> ecomify GmbH >>>>> www.ecomify.de >>>>> >>>>> [1] https://www.w3schools.com/bootstrap/bootstrap_ref_all_classes.asp >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Am 03.07.17 um 15:00 schrieb James Yong: >>>>>> Hi Michael and all, >>>>>> >>>>>> We can look into JSF 2.2 as a possible candidate. It is similar to >>>>>> OFBiz >>>>>> Widget and seems to fit the new requirements described so far in this >>>>>> thread. >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards, >>>>>> James Yong >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2017-07-03 17:42 (+0800), Michael Brohl <[hidden email]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> Hi Sharan, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> thanks for the reminder. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It's fine to have another theme to choose for the "old" UI, I just >>>>>>> want >>>>>>> to point out that (in my mind) the new theme/UI initiative goes far >>>>>>> beyond having just another theme on base of the current technological >>>>>>> stack: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - new themes should be responsive >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - we should be able to use different UI frameworks like Bootstrap and >>>>>>> AngularJS who take care of responsiveness and browser compatibility >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - it must be easy for developers to write the screen structure and >>>>>>> also >>>>>>> easy for webdesigners to build a good design on base of this >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - developers should not care about CSS styles and classes, and >>>>>>> webdesigners should not cara about how the screen snippets are put >>>>>>> together or how the screens get their data. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - we will need a new approach to be able to "plug in" different UI >>>>>>> frameworks. We'll need a UI layer who represents the screen contents >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> an abstracted way (possbly an enhanced Freemarker macro library) and >>>>>>> make it possible to generate HTML code with the right css attributes >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> the target library. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - a rewrite of the screens will be necessary to make the UI less >>>>>>> cluttered and overloaded. This will require some concepts/design work >>>>>>> beforehand >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - there are surely many other possible requirements (I am not a UX or >>>>>>> web design expert) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I appreciate the contribution of the new theme. I am also sure that >>>>>>> this >>>>>>> will not solve the challenge to drive OFBiz to another level, UI wise. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks and regards, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Michael Brohl >>>>>>> ecomify GmbH >>>>>>> www.ecomify.de >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Am 03.07.17 um 10:52 schrieb Sharan Foga: >>>>>>>> Hi All >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Don't forget that we also had the offer of a theme from Provolve and >>>>>>>> Stannah. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-6985 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This is a theme that they are using at the moment (so it working) and >>>>>>>> have said it could be contributed back to the project. If it's only a >>>>>>>> case of having someone volunteer to implement it into the trunk then >>>>>>>> this could be a way to get a nice theme up and running quickly for >>>>>>>> us. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>> Sharan >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 03/07/17 10:29, Michael Brohl wrote: >>>>>>>>> Thanks Nicolas, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> is there anything, even work in progress, you are able to share at >>>>>>>>> the moment? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This way other could chime in and help moving further. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Michael Brohl >>>>>>>>> ecomify GmbH >>>>>>>>> www.ecomify.de >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Am 03.07.17 um 09:26 schrieb Nicolas Malin: >>>>>>>>>> Hi Michael >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Le 02/07/2017 à 20:42, Michael Brohl a écrit : >>>>>>>>>>> Hi Julien, all, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I'd like to resurrect this discussion and the activities to >>>>>>>>>>> improve >>>>>>>>>>> the OFBiz user interface. I think we really should put some >>>>>>>>>>> focused >>>>>>>>>>> effort on it if we want OFBiz to be recognized as a modern ERP. >>>>>>>>>>> Also, if we imporve the UI, more users and also developers will be >>>>>>>>>>> attracted which will be a win for the community and further >>>>>>>>>>> development of OFBiz. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Nicolas and others who have started work on this: can you give us >>>>>>>>>>> an update about the efforts undertaken and where we stand? >>>>>>>>>> Currently I block on the comon-theme with a good information >>>>>>>>>> propagation. My next step will be create a dedicate object as >>>>>>>>>> referent on widget context, but my works has been disturb with the >>>>>>>>>> framework separation and the git-svn link break. >>>>>>>>>> Instead of continue, I help some people to work on the groovy >>>>>>>>>> mini-lang conversion. I plan to improve a few the groovy DSL and >>>>>>>>>> after I continue the work on commont-theme. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Nicolas >>>>>>>>> >> |
Re: [DISCUSSION] Improving the OFBiz User Interface
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Improving the OFBiz User Interface
Administrator
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Improving the OFBiz User Interface
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Ah, thanks for the pointer, Jacques.
I forgot about this and will have a look at the work Nicolas did there so far. Regards, Michael Am 05.07.17 um 14:09 schrieb Jacques Le Roux: > That makes sense Taher and was already discussed and mostly agreed IIRW. > > There is even a Jira for that > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5776 > > Jacques > > > Le 05/07/2017 à 13:40, Taher Alkhateeb a écrit : >> Hi Michael, >> >> My suggestion (other opinions might enrich the discussion) is to limit >> current work to moving actual web items (html, css, javascript, >> images and >> so on). >> >> Moving ftl might be too much work and perhaps widgets should stay where >> they are. What I suggest moving is things that live in the browser to >> the >> base/common theme. >> >> On Jul 5, 2017 11:50 AM, "Michael Brohl" <[hidden email]> >> wrote: >> >> Hi Taher, >> >> do I understand you correctly that you want to move all screen >> definitions >> and the ftl template files (containing the html) to a central component >> outside the framework/applications? >> >> Regards, >> Michael >> >> Am 04.07.17 um 23:50 schrieb Taher Alkhateeb: >> >> Hi Michael, >>> I think we agree, just a difference in semantics. What I mean by web >>> is anything CSS, JavaScript, or HTML, not FreeMarker (for now). The >>> smaller the effort the bigger the chances to move this initiative >>> forward, so yeah I think we're on the same page. >>> >>> On Wed, Jul 5, 2017 at 12:35 AM, Michael Brohl >>> <[hidden email]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Taher, >>>> >>>> I agree that all ressources like images, css etc. should be moved >>>> away in >>>> a >>>> foundation component. I am not sure if I can follow your suggestion to >>>> move >>>> everything web-related from the framework to another component. In my >>>> mind, >>>> the foundation for the UI development (Renderer, macro libraries, >>>> transformers etc.) should reside in the framework. >>>> >>>> I think it would be also a too big move to rewrite/move all this at >>>> once >>>> and >>>> has not enough visible impact for users to be highly prioritized. >>>> >>>> For me, a new and modern UI would be the highest priority at the >>>> moment. I >>>> hope that this will attract more contributors and more users to >>>> grow the >>>> community. >>>> >>>> After this, more restructuring and separation can be done. >>>> >>>> At ecomify, we are currently evaluating if we can set a team on it to >>>> implement a new UI. It will be a lot of work and a big effort for >>>> us but I >>>> think it's worth it. We'll see how this will work out and how we can >>>> contribute this back to the project. >>>> >>>> Best regards, >>>> >>>> Michael Brohl >>>> ecomify GmbH >>>> www.ecomify.de >>>> >>>> >>>> Am 04.07.17 um 20:53 schrieb Taher Alkhateeb: >>>> >>>> I agree with Michael, baby steps for the win. I propose we perhaps >>>>> just postpone "big ideas" for now and focus on things that can get >>>>> results quickly to put life back into this initiative. Maybe next >>>>> actions could be the following: >>>>> >>>>> - Create a base theme >>>>> - Move all artifacts from framework/images to the base theme (jquery, >>>>> bootstrap or whatever already exists) and do the rewiring. Also look >>>>> for any web artifacts anywhere and move them to the base theme. >>>>> Essentially, remove any thing that is web-based and centralize it in >>>>> the theme. >>>>> - Create an implementation theme on top of the base theme >>>>> >>>>> Once the above is done, then we can have a discussion of what to do >>>>> next. There are _many_ ideas, but I will restrain myself this time >>>>> until we get some action first :) >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Jul 4, 2017 at 6:31 PM, Jacques Le Roux >>>>> <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Le 04/07/2017 à 16:57, Michael Brohl a écrit : >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi James, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> thanks for your suggestions. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As far as I know, JSF would introduce some new technologies >>>>>>> because it >>>>>>> relies on beans and JSP's (correct me if I'm wrong). I'm not >>>>>>> sure if we >>>>>>> want >>>>>>> to go so far. >>>>>>> >>>>>> Facelet is now the recommended technology for JSF >>>>>> >>>>>> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/2095397/what-is-the-diff >>>>>> erence-between-jsf-servlet-and-jsp >>>>>> and both are parts of JavaEE. >>>>>> >>>>>> I agree with Michael and would not like to change OFBiz widgets >>>>>> for JSF. >>>>>> Not >>>>>> that I don't like nor trust JSF (and Oracle, but then a bit >>>>>> less), but >>>>>> the >>>>>> work is overwhelming and obviously we don't have the resources >>>>>> for that. >>>>>> >>>>>> I digged a little deeper into the UI stuff, templates and theming >>>>>> and >>>>>>> have >>>>>>> to correct my summary a bit: I mentioned AngularJS and Bootstrap >>>>>>> on the >>>>>>> same >>>>>>> level which is like comparing apples and oranges. AngularJS is a >>>>>>> client-side >>>>>>> JavaScript framework to build single page applications, icluding >>>>>>> his >>>>>>> own >>>>>>> model-view-controller mechanism while Bootsrap is a CSS >>>>>>> framework which >>>>>>> provides comprehensive UI elements in a structured way. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I guess that the use of Angular would need a whole lot more >>>>>>> changes in >>>>>>> OFBiz than the use of Bootstrap. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So I tend to think that we have to agree on a CSS framework like >>>>>>> Bootstrap >>>>>>> and rewrite the UI to use the proper CSS classes for this >>>>>>> framework. >>>>>>> That >>>>>>> would possibly reduce the complexity and makes this statement of >>>>>>> mine >>>>>>> obsolete: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - we will need a new approach to be able to "plug in" different UI >>>>>>>> frameworks. We'll need a UI layer who represents the screen >>>>>>>> contents >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>> abstracted way (possbly an enhanced Freemarker macro library) >>>>>>>> and make >>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>> possible to generate HTML code with the right css attributes >>>>>>>> for the >>>>>>>> target >>>>>>>> library. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> It's maybe too ambitious wanting OFBiz to be able to be used with >>>>>>> different frameworks. The Bootstrap CSS world is well documented >>>>>>> [1] >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> there are a lot of really good looking and functional free >>>>>>> templates >>>>>>> out >>>>>>> there. So if we provide the UI code for it, together with one basic >>>>>>> theme, >>>>>>> users can put their own themes on top of it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Maybe this is a way to come to a competitive UI in a relative short >>>>>>> amount >>>>>>> of time. I don't think that we can afford to make this a year-long >>>>>>> project. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What do others think? >>>>>>> >>>>>> I agree that using Bootstrap would be a good thing. An >>>>>> alternative is >>>>>> Foundation https://www.keycdn.com/blog/bootstrap-vs-foundation, this >>>>>> could >>>>>> be possibly discussed. >>>>>> That's what ilscipio has used, with some success at the UI level >>>>>> I'd say >>>>>> (they now tend to lean to Foundation). Now they derived from >>>>>> OFBiz at >>>>>> other >>>>>> technology levels (no or less form widgets but more FTL macros, >>>>>> even an >>>>>> API >>>>>> of FTL macros). So I'd try to compare the rest... >>>>>> >>>>>> I'd also let Angular out of the picture. Some prefer React >>>>>> (initially >>>>>> from >>>>>> FB) and I wonder what those who have used Angular 1 think about >>>>>> Angular >>>>>> 2! I >>>>>> also remember another Google "attempt": GWT. Are there still people >>>>>> using >>>>>> it >>>>>> with OFBiz? I guess you get my point, trends pass and tools with >>>>>> them... >>>>>> >>>>>> Jacques >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>>> Michael Brohl >>>>>>> ecomify GmbH >>>>>>> www.ecomify.de >>>>>>> >>>>>>> [1] >>>>>>> https://www.w3schools.com/bootstrap/bootstrap_ref_all_classes.asp >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Am 03.07.17 um 15:00 schrieb James Yong: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Michael and all, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We can look into JSF 2.2 as a possible candidate. It is similar to >>>>>>>> OFBiz >>>>>>>> Widget and seems to fit the new requirements described so far >>>>>>>> in this >>>>>>>> thread. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>> James Yong >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 2017-07-03 17:42 (+0800), Michael Brohl >>>>>>>> <[hidden email]> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi Sharan, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> thanks for the reminder. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It's fine to have another theme to choose for the "old" UI, I >>>>>>>>> just >>>>>>>>> want >>>>>>>>> to point out that (in my mind) the new theme/UI initiative >>>>>>>>> goes far >>>>>>>>> beyond having just another theme on base of the current >>>>>>>>> technological >>>>>>>>> stack: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> - new themes should be responsive >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> - we should be able to use different UI frameworks like >>>>>>>>> Bootstrap and >>>>>>>>> AngularJS who take care of responsiveness and browser >>>>>>>>> compatibility >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> - it must be easy for developers to write the screen structure >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> also >>>>>>>>> easy for webdesigners to build a good design on base of this >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> - developers should not care about CSS styles and classes, and >>>>>>>>> webdesigners should not cara about how the screen snippets are >>>>>>>>> put >>>>>>>>> together or how the screens get their data. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> - we will need a new approach to be able to "plug in" >>>>>>>>> different UI >>>>>>>>> frameworks. We'll need a UI layer who represents the screen >>>>>>>>> contents >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> an abstracted way (possbly an enhanced Freemarker macro >>>>>>>>> library) and >>>>>>>>> make it possible to generate HTML code with the right css >>>>>>>>> attributes >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> the target library. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> - a rewrite of the screens will be necessary to make the UI less >>>>>>>>> cluttered and overloaded. This will require some >>>>>>>>> concepts/design work >>>>>>>>> beforehand >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> - there are surely many other possible requirements (I am not >>>>>>>>> a UX or >>>>>>>>> web design expert) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I appreciate the contribution of the new theme. I am also sure >>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>> will not solve the challenge to drive OFBiz to another level, UI >>>>>>>>> wise. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks and regards, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Michael Brohl >>>>>>>>> ecomify GmbH >>>>>>>>> www.ecomify.de >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Am 03.07.17 um 10:52 schrieb Sharan Foga: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi All >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Don't forget that we also had the offer of a theme from >>>>>>>>>> Provolve and >>>>>>>>>> Stannah. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-6985 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> This is a theme that they are using at the moment (so it >>>>>>>>>> working) >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> have said it could be contributed back to the project. If >>>>>>>>>> it's only >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> case of having someone volunteer to implement it into the >>>>>>>>>> trunk then >>>>>>>>>> this could be a way to get a nice theme up and running >>>>>>>>>> quickly for >>>>>>>>>> us. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>>>> Sharan >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 03/07/17 10:29, Michael Brohl wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks Nicolas, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> is there anything, even work in progress, you are able to >>>>>>>>>>> share at >>>>>>>>>>> the moment? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> This way other could chime in and help moving further. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Michael Brohl >>>>>>>>>>> ecomify GmbH >>>>>>>>>>> www.ecomify.de >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Am 03.07.17 um 09:26 schrieb Nicolas Malin: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Michael >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Le 02/07/2017 à 20:42, Michael Brohl a écrit : >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Julien, all, >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd like to resurrect this discussion and the activities to >>>>>>>>>>>>> improve >>>>>>>>>>>>> the OFBiz user interface. I think we really should put some >>>>>>>>>>>>> focused >>>>>>>>>>>>> effort on it if we want OFBiz to be recognized as a modern >>>>>>>>>>>>> ERP. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, if we imporve the UI, more users and also developers >>>>>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>> attracted which will be a win for the community and further >>>>>>>>>>>>> development of OFBiz. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Nicolas and others who have started work on this: can you >>>>>>>>>>>>> give us >>>>>>>>>>>>> an update about the efforts undertaken and where we stand? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Currently I block on the comon-theme with a good information >>>>>>>>>>>> propagation. My next step will be create a dedicate object as >>>>>>>>>>>> referent on widget context, but my works has been disturb >>>>>>>>>>>> with the >>>>>>>>>>>> framework separation and the git-svn link break. >>>>>>>>>>>> Instead of continue, I help some people to work on the groovy >>>>>>>>>>>> mini-lang conversion. I plan to improve a few the groovy >>>>>>>>>>>> DSL and >>>>>>>>>>>> after I continue the work on commont-theme. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Nicolas >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> > |
Re: [DISCUSSION] Improving the OFBiz User Interface
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Improving the OFBiz User Interface
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In reply to this post by taher
I'm currently twisting my had around the question of theme compatibility.
The current theme set and the html code (freemarker templates and the code produced by forms and widgets) correspond with each other (naturally). So if we want to introduce a new CSS framework like Bootstrap, we will have to follow it's CSS reference and introduce it's CSS classes to the html and forms/widgets code. This will surely break the other themes. So we have to (1) either find a way to remain compatible with the old themes or (2) decide to break the old themes (and remove them). (1) would mean that we (I cite myself) > will need a new approach to be able to "plug in" different UI frameworks. We'll need a UI layer who represents the screen contents in an abstracted way (possibly an enhanced Freemarker macro library) and make it possible to generate HTML code with the right css attributes for the target library. (2) would mean that we will have only one first theme for a time (I'm sure that others will follow more quickly because of using a standard CSS framework) If I look at the Odoo approach [1], it seems that they are not compatible with different frameworks but have their base template build mainly on Bootstrap and jQuery. I still think that maintaining an abstract layer for different frameworks or "theme languages" is too much a burden for us. But will the community agree upon (2)? I might be wrong with my assumptions as I am not an expert (just interested in a much better UI) so I appreciate the community's feedback on this. Thanks and best regards, Michael [1] https://www.odoo.com/documentation/10.0/howtos/themes.html Am 04.07.17 um 20:53 schrieb Taher Alkhateeb: > I agree with Michael, baby steps for the win. I propose we perhaps > just postpone "big ideas" for now and focus on things that can get > results quickly to put life back into this initiative. Maybe next > actions could be the following: > > - Create a base theme > - Move all artifacts from framework/images to the base theme (jquery, > bootstrap or whatever already exists) and do the rewiring. Also look > for any web artifacts anywhere and move them to the base theme. > Essentially, remove any thing that is web-based and centralize it in > the theme. > - Create an implementation theme on top of the base theme > > Once the above is done, then we can have a discussion of what to do > next. There are _many_ ideas, but I will restrain myself this time > until we get some action first :) > > On Tue, Jul 4, 2017 at 6:31 PM, Jacques Le Roux > <[hidden email]> wrote: >> Le 04/07/2017 à 16:57, Michael Brohl a écrit : >>> Hi James, >>> >>> thanks for your suggestions. >>> >>> As far as I know, JSF would introduce some new technologies because it >>> relies on beans and JSP's (correct me if I'm wrong). I'm not sure if we want >>> to go so far. >> >> Facelet is now the recommended technology for JSF >> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/2095397/what-is-the-difference-between-jsf-servlet-and-jsp >> and both are parts of JavaEE. >> >> I agree with Michael and would not like to change OFBiz widgets for JSF. Not >> that I don't like nor trust JSF (and Oracle, but then a bit less), but the >> work is overwhelming and obviously we don't have the resources for that. >> >>> I digged a little deeper into the UI stuff, templates and theming and have >>> to correct my summary a bit: I mentioned AngularJS and Bootstrap on the same >>> level which is like comparing apples and oranges. AngularJS is a client-side >>> JavaScript framework to build single page applications, icluding his own >>> model-view-controller mechanism while Bootsrap is a CSS framework which >>> provides comprehensive UI elements in a structured way. >>> >>> I guess that the use of Angular would need a whole lot more changes in >>> OFBiz than the use of Bootstrap. >>> >>> So I tend to think that we have to agree on a CSS framework like Bootstrap >>> and rewrite the UI to use the proper CSS classes for this framework. That >>> would possibly reduce the complexity and makes this statement of mine >>> obsolete: >>> >>>> - we will need a new approach to be able to "plug in" different UI >>>> frameworks. We'll need a UI layer who represents the screen contents in an >>>> abstracted way (possbly an enhanced Freemarker macro library) and make it >>>> possible to generate HTML code with the right css attributes for the target >>>> library. >>> It's maybe too ambitious wanting OFBiz to be able to be used with >>> different frameworks. The Bootstrap CSS world is well documented [1] and >>> there are a lot of really good looking and functional free templates out >>> there. So if we provide the UI code for it, together with one basic theme, >>> users can put their own themes on top of it. >>> >>> Maybe this is a way to come to a competitive UI in a relative short amount >>> of time. I don't think that we can afford to make this a year-long project. >>> >>> What do others think? >> >> I agree that using Bootstrap would be a good thing. An alternative is >> Foundation https://www.keycdn.com/blog/bootstrap-vs-foundation, this could >> be possibly discussed. >> That's what ilscipio has used, with some success at the UI level I'd say >> (they now tend to lean to Foundation). Now they derived from OFBiz at other >> technology levels (no or less form widgets but more FTL macros, even an API >> of FTL macros). So I'd try to compare the rest... >> >> I'd also let Angular out of the picture. Some prefer React (initially from >> FB) and I wonder what those who have used Angular 1 think about Angular 2! I >> also remember another Google "attempt": GWT. Are there still people using it >> with OFBiz? I guess you get my point, trends pass and tools with them... >> >> Jacques >> >> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> Michael Brohl >>> ecomify GmbH >>> www.ecomify.de >>> >>> [1] https://www.w3schools.com/bootstrap/bootstrap_ref_all_classes.asp >>> >>> >>> Am 03.07.17 um 15:00 schrieb James Yong: >>>> Hi Michael and all, >>>> >>>> We can look into JSF 2.2 as a possible candidate. It is similar to OFBiz >>>> Widget and seems to fit the new requirements described so far in this >>>> thread. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> James Yong >>>> >>>> On 2017-07-03 17:42 (+0800), Michael Brohl <[hidden email]> >>>> wrote: >>>>> Hi Sharan, >>>>> >>>>> thanks for the reminder. >>>>> >>>>> It's fine to have another theme to choose for the "old" UI, I just want >>>>> to point out that (in my mind) the new theme/UI initiative goes far >>>>> beyond having just another theme on base of the current technological >>>>> stack: >>>>> >>>>> - new themes should be responsive >>>>> >>>>> - we should be able to use different UI frameworks like Bootstrap and >>>>> AngularJS who take care of responsiveness and browser compatibility >>>>> >>>>> - it must be easy for developers to write the screen structure and also >>>>> easy for webdesigners to build a good design on base of this >>>>> >>>>> - developers should not care about CSS styles and classes, and >>>>> webdesigners should not cara about how the screen snippets are put >>>>> together or how the screens get their data. >>>>> >>>>> - we will need a new approach to be able to "plug in" different UI >>>>> frameworks. We'll need a UI layer who represents the screen contents in >>>>> an abstracted way (possbly an enhanced Freemarker macro library) and >>>>> make it possible to generate HTML code with the right css attributes for >>>>> the target library. >>>>> >>>>> - a rewrite of the screens will be necessary to make the UI less >>>>> cluttered and overloaded. This will require some concepts/design work >>>>> beforehand >>>>> >>>>> - there are surely many other possible requirements (I am not a UX or >>>>> web design expert) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I appreciate the contribution of the new theme. I am also sure that this >>>>> will not solve the challenge to drive OFBiz to another level, UI wise. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks and regards, >>>>> >>>>> Michael Brohl >>>>> ecomify GmbH >>>>> www.ecomify.de >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Am 03.07.17 um 10:52 schrieb Sharan Foga: >>>>>> Hi All >>>>>> >>>>>> Don't forget that we also had the offer of a theme from Provolve and >>>>>> Stannah. >>>>>> >>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-6985 >>>>>> >>>>>> This is a theme that they are using at the moment (so it working) and >>>>>> have said it could be contributed back to the project. If it's only a >>>>>> case of having someone volunteer to implement it into the trunk then >>>>>> this could be a way to get a nice theme up and running quickly for us. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks >>>>>> Sharan >>>>>> >>>>>> On 03/07/17 10:29, Michael Brohl wrote: >>>>>>> Thanks Nicolas, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> is there anything, even work in progress, you are able to share at >>>>>>> the moment? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This way other could chime in and help moving further. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Michael Brohl >>>>>>> ecomify GmbH >>>>>>> www.ecomify.de >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Am 03.07.17 um 09:26 schrieb Nicolas Malin: >>>>>>>> Hi Michael >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Le 02/07/2017 à 20:42, Michael Brohl a écrit : >>>>>>>>> Hi Julien, all, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'd like to resurrect this discussion and the activities to improve >>>>>>>>> the OFBiz user interface. I think we really should put some focused >>>>>>>>> effort on it if we want OFBiz to be recognized as a modern ERP. >>>>>>>>> Also, if we imporve the UI, more users and also developers will be >>>>>>>>> attracted which will be a win for the community and further >>>>>>>>> development of OFBiz. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Nicolas and others who have started work on this: can you give us >>>>>>>>> an update about the efforts undertaken and where we stand? >>>>>>>> Currently I block on the comon-theme with a good information >>>>>>>> propagation. My next step will be create a dedicate object as >>>>>>>> referent on widget context, but my works has been disturb with the >>>>>>>> framework separation and the git-svn link break. >>>>>>>> Instead of continue, I help some people to work on the groovy >>>>>>>> mini-lang conversion. I plan to improve a few the groovy DSL and >>>>>>>> after I continue the work on commont-theme. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Nicolas >>>>>>> >>>>> >>> |
Re: [DISCUSSION] Improving the OFBiz User Interface
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Improving the OFBiz User Interface
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These are good news, Nicolas :-)
I started to review your efforts on common-theme but might not have digged deep enough to notice the separation layer (there are many changes already). I thought that it just moved the base theme and images stuff out of the framework. I really appreciate your priority change and look forward to the new base for theming. In the meantime I will start to do some prototyping for a new theme as a base for further discussion (a picture is worth a thousand words ;-) ) Kind regards, Michael Am 05.07.17 um 23:21 schrieb Nicolas Malin: > Michael the separation layer between html/css/js lib and the model > screen is already done on the common-theme present on my github repo > (1) without break older theme. > > This it's the easier face on the problem, because the hidden face is > present with elements who use macro without ui rendering linked to a > theme like some content or pdf. I will follow your effort and raise > this task on the upper priority :) > > Cheers > > Nicolas > > > (1) https://github.com/nmalin/ApacheOFBiz/tree/common-theme > Le 05/07/2017 à 22:18, Michael Brohl a écrit : >> I'm currently twisting my had around the question of theme >> compatibility. >> >> The current theme set and the html code (freemarker templates and the >> code produced by forms and widgets) correspond with each other >> (naturally). >> >> So if we want to introduce a new CSS framework like Bootstrap, we >> will have to follow it's CSS reference and introduce it's CSS classes >> to the html and forms/widgets code. This will surely break the other >> themes. >> >> So we have to (1) either find a way to remain compatible with the old >> themes or (2) decide to break the old themes (and remove them). >> >> (1) would mean that we (I cite myself) >> >> > will need a new approach to be able to "plug in" different UI >> frameworks. We'll need a UI layer who represents the screen contents >> in an abstracted way (possibly an enhanced Freemarker macro library) >> and make it possible to generate HTML code with the right css >> attributes for the target library. >> >> (2) would mean that we will have only one first theme for a time (I'm >> sure that others will follow more quickly because of using a standard >> CSS framework) >> >> >> If I look at the Odoo approach [1], it seems that they are not >> compatible with different frameworks but have their base template >> build mainly on Bootstrap and jQuery. I still think that maintaining >> an abstract layer for different frameworks or "theme languages" is >> too much a burden for us. >> >> But will the community agree upon (2)? >> >> I might be wrong with my assumptions as I am not an expert (just >> interested in a much better UI) so I appreciate the community's >> feedback on this. >> >> Thanks and best regards, >> >> Michael >> >> >> [1] https://www.odoo.com/documentation/10.0/howtos/themes.html >> >> >> Am 04.07.17 um 20:53 schrieb Taher Alkhateeb: >>> I agree with Michael, baby steps for the win. I propose we perhaps >>> just postpone "big ideas" for now and focus on things that can get >>> results quickly to put life back into this initiative. Maybe next >>> actions could be the following: >>> >>> - Create a base theme >>> - Move all artifacts from framework/images to the base theme (jquery, >>> bootstrap or whatever already exists) and do the rewiring. Also look >>> for any web artifacts anywhere and move them to the base theme. >>> Essentially, remove any thing that is web-based and centralize it in >>> the theme. >>> - Create an implementation theme on top of the base theme >>> >>> Once the above is done, then we can have a discussion of what to do >>> next. There are _many_ ideas, but I will restrain myself this time >>> until we get some action first :) >>> >>> On Tue, Jul 4, 2017 at 6:31 PM, Jacques Le Roux >>> <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>> Le 04/07/2017 à 16:57, Michael Brohl a écrit : >>>>> Hi James, >>>>> >>>>> thanks for your suggestions. >>>>> >>>>> As far as I know, JSF would introduce some new technologies >>>>> because it >>>>> relies on beans and JSP's (correct me if I'm wrong). I'm not sure >>>>> if we want >>>>> to go so far. >>>> >>>> Facelet is now the recommended technology for JSF >>>> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/2095397/what-is-the-difference-between-jsf-servlet-and-jsp >>>> >>>> and both are parts of JavaEE. >>>> >>>> I agree with Michael and would not like to change OFBiz widgets for >>>> JSF. Not >>>> that I don't like nor trust JSF (and Oracle, but then a bit less), >>>> but the >>>> work is overwhelming and obviously we don't have the resources for >>>> that. >>>> >>>>> I digged a little deeper into the UI stuff, templates and theming >>>>> and have >>>>> to correct my summary a bit: I mentioned AngularJS and Bootstrap >>>>> on the same >>>>> level which is like comparing apples and oranges. AngularJS is a >>>>> client-side >>>>> JavaScript framework to build single page applications, icluding >>>>> his own >>>>> model-view-controller mechanism while Bootsrap is a CSS framework >>>>> which >>>>> provides comprehensive UI elements in a structured way. >>>>> >>>>> I guess that the use of Angular would need a whole lot more >>>>> changes in >>>>> OFBiz than the use of Bootstrap. >>>>> >>>>> So I tend to think that we have to agree on a CSS framework like >>>>> Bootstrap >>>>> and rewrite the UI to use the proper CSS classes for this >>>>> framework. That >>>>> would possibly reduce the complexity and makes this statement of mine >>>>> obsolete: >>>>> >>>>>> - we will need a new approach to be able to "plug in" different UI >>>>>> frameworks. We'll need a UI layer who represents the screen >>>>>> contents in an >>>>>> abstracted way (possbly an enhanced Freemarker macro library) and >>>>>> make it >>>>>> possible to generate HTML code with the right css attributes for >>>>>> the target >>>>>> library. >>>>> It's maybe too ambitious wanting OFBiz to be able to be used with >>>>> different frameworks. The Bootstrap CSS world is well documented >>>>> [1] and >>>>> there are a lot of really good looking and functional free >>>>> templates out >>>>> there. So if we provide the UI code for it, together with one >>>>> basic theme, >>>>> users can put their own themes on top of it. >>>>> >>>>> Maybe this is a way to come to a competitive UI in a relative >>>>> short amount >>>>> of time. I don't think that we can afford to make this a year-long >>>>> project. >>>>> >>>>> What do others think? >>>> >>>> I agree that using Bootstrap would be a good thing. An alternative is >>>> Foundation https://www.keycdn.com/blog/bootstrap-vs-foundation, >>>> this could >>>> be possibly discussed. >>>> That's what ilscipio has used, with some success at the UI level >>>> I'd say >>>> (they now tend to lean to Foundation). Now they derived from OFBiz >>>> at other >>>> technology levels (no or less form widgets but more FTL macros, >>>> even an API >>>> of FTL macros). So I'd try to compare the rest... >>>> >>>> I'd also let Angular out of the picture. Some prefer React >>>> (initially from >>>> FB) and I wonder what those who have used Angular 1 think about >>>> Angular 2! I >>>> also remember another Google "attempt": GWT. Are there still people >>>> using it >>>> with OFBiz? I guess you get my point, trends pass and tools with >>>> them... >>>> >>>> Jacques >>>> >>>> >>>>> Best regards, >>>>> >>>>> Michael Brohl >>>>> ecomify GmbH >>>>> www.ecomify.de >>>>> >>>>> [1] https://www.w3schools.com/bootstrap/bootstrap_ref_all_classes.asp >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Am 03.07.17 um 15:00 schrieb James Yong: >>>>>> Hi Michael and all, >>>>>> >>>>>> We can look into JSF 2.2 as a possible candidate. It is similar >>>>>> to OFBiz >>>>>> Widget and seems to fit the new requirements described so far in >>>>>> this >>>>>> thread. >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards, >>>>>> James Yong >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2017-07-03 17:42 (+0800), Michael Brohl >>>>>> <[hidden email]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> Hi Sharan, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> thanks for the reminder. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It's fine to have another theme to choose for the "old" UI, I >>>>>>> just want >>>>>>> to point out that (in my mind) the new theme/UI initiative goes far >>>>>>> beyond having just another theme on base of the current >>>>>>> technological >>>>>>> stack: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - new themes should be responsive >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - we should be able to use different UI frameworks like >>>>>>> Bootstrap and >>>>>>> AngularJS who take care of responsiveness and browser compatibility >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - it must be easy for developers to write the screen structure >>>>>>> and also >>>>>>> easy for webdesigners to build a good design on base of this >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - developers should not care about CSS styles and classes, and >>>>>>> webdesigners should not cara about how the screen snippets are put >>>>>>> together or how the screens get their data. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - we will need a new approach to be able to "plug in" different UI >>>>>>> frameworks. We'll need a UI layer who represents the screen >>>>>>> contents in >>>>>>> an abstracted way (possbly an enhanced Freemarker macro library) >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> make it possible to generate HTML code with the right css >>>>>>> attributes for >>>>>>> the target library. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - a rewrite of the screens will be necessary to make the UI less >>>>>>> cluttered and overloaded. This will require some concepts/design >>>>>>> work >>>>>>> beforehand >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - there are surely many other possible requirements (I am not a >>>>>>> UX or >>>>>>> web design expert) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I appreciate the contribution of the new theme. I am also sure >>>>>>> that this >>>>>>> will not solve the challenge to drive OFBiz to another level, UI >>>>>>> wise. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks and regards, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Michael Brohl >>>>>>> ecomify GmbH >>>>>>> www.ecomify.de >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Am 03.07.17 um 10:52 schrieb Sharan Foga: >>>>>>>> Hi All >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Don't forget that we also had the offer of a theme from >>>>>>>> Provolve and >>>>>>>> Stannah. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-6985 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This is a theme that they are using at the moment (so it >>>>>>>> working) and >>>>>>>> have said it could be contributed back to the project. If it's >>>>>>>> only a >>>>>>>> case of having someone volunteer to implement it into the trunk >>>>>>>> then >>>>>>>> this could be a way to get a nice theme up and running quickly >>>>>>>> for us. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>> Sharan >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 03/07/17 10:29, Michael Brohl wrote: >>>>>>>>> Thanks Nicolas, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> is there anything, even work in progress, you are able to >>>>>>>>> share at >>>>>>>>> the moment? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This way other could chime in and help moving further. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Michael Brohl >>>>>>>>> ecomify GmbH >>>>>>>>> www.ecomify.de >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Am 03.07.17 um 09:26 schrieb Nicolas Malin: >>>>>>>>>> Hi Michael >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Le 02/07/2017 à 20:42, Michael Brohl a écrit : >>>>>>>>>>> Hi Julien, all, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I'd like to resurrect this discussion and the activities to >>>>>>>>>>> improve >>>>>>>>>>> the OFBiz user interface. I think we really should put some >>>>>>>>>>> focused >>>>>>>>>>> effort on it if we want OFBiz to be recognized as a modern ERP. >>>>>>>>>>> Also, if we imporve the UI, more users and also developers >>>>>>>>>>> will be >>>>>>>>>>> attracted which will be a win for the community and further >>>>>>>>>>> development of OFBiz. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Nicolas and others who have started work on this: can you >>>>>>>>>>> give us >>>>>>>>>>> an update about the efforts undertaken and where we stand? >>>>>>>>>> Currently I block on the comon-theme with a good information >>>>>>>>>> propagation. My next step will be create a dedicate object as >>>>>>>>>> referent on widget context, but my works has been disturb >>>>>>>>>> with the >>>>>>>>>> framework separation and the git-svn link break. >>>>>>>>>> Instead of continue, I help some people to work on the groovy >>>>>>>>>> mini-lang conversion. I plan to improve a few the groovy DSL and >>>>>>>>>> after I continue the work on commont-theme. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Nicolas >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> >> >> > |
Re: [DISCUSSION] Improving the OFBiz User Interface
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Improving the OFBiz User Interface
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