Design improvements?
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I speak not as a voting member of ofbiz but one that has some 50 apps
built on ofbiz. I doubt if I had know of the way improvements have been implemented and the work that it would take to upgrade all 50 apps I would have chose ofbiz. In short if you ever expect to have ofbiz be a main stay app for developers you need to be considerate of the time and effort they have expended to customize and how your "improvements" effect those efforts. I did not get into ofbiz to support developers upgrading my customization because someone thought their way was best before discussing it in the light of production system. I got into ofbiz because of the framework basically and a Idea that what I did would work for along time. At this point I have some serious thinking to do about the future of ofbiz in my efforts. ========================= BJ Freeman Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52> Specialtymarket.com <http://www.specialtymarket.com/> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man |
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Hi BJ,
If you have contributions suitable for the general public, count me in. I know how you feel, i have the same here too. Again, create Jira issues with patches and sure, me, Jacques and others will have a look at it. Regards, Hans -- Ofbiz on twitter: http://twitter.com/apache_ofbiz Myself on twitter: http://twitter.com/hansbak Antwebsystems.com: Quality services for competitive rates. On Wed, 2010-09-22 at 04:42 -0700, BJ Freeman wrote: > I speak not as a voting member of ofbiz but one that has some 50 apps > built on ofbiz. > I doubt if I had know of the way improvements have been implemented and > the work that it would take to upgrade all 50 apps I would have chose ofbiz. > In short if you ever expect to have ofbiz be a main stay app for > developers you need to be considerate of the time and effort they have > expended to customize and how your "improvements" effect those efforts. > > I did not get into ofbiz to support developers upgrading my > customization because someone thought their way was best before > discussing it in the light of production system. > I got into ofbiz because of the framework basically and a Idea that what > I did would work for along time. > > At this point I have some serious thinking to do about the future of > ofbiz in my efforts. > > > ========================= > BJ Freeman > Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52> > Specialtymarket.com <http://www.specialtymarket.com/> > Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist > > Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man > |
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In reply to this post by BJ Freeman
Just curious; what are/have been you main stumbling blocks?
Jacques From: "BJ Freeman" <[hidden email]> >I speak not as a voting member of ofbiz but one that has some 50 apps > built on ofbiz. > I doubt if I had know of the way improvements have been implemented and > the work that it would take to upgrade all 50 apps I would have chose ofbiz. > In short if you ever expect to have ofbiz be a main stay app for > developers you need to be considerate of the time and effort they have > expended to customize and how your "improvements" effect those efforts. > > I did not get into ofbiz to support developers upgrading my > customization because someone thought their way was best before > discussing it in the light of production system. > I got into ofbiz because of the framework basically and a Idea that what > I did would work for along time. > > At this point I have some serious thinking to do about the future of > ofbiz in my efforts. > > > ========================= > BJ Freeman |
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In reply to this post by hans_bakker
Hans and Jacques:
up till now the rule expressed is dig in yourself or hire someone familiar enough to do the upgrade. what I am proposing is that when new "improvements" overwrite existing code, that a migration plan be developed with scripts. we now have a patches folder that could be used along with the scripts. the Goal is to have as much of the migration be automated so a developer like my self would be able to have confidence his customization are inline with the "Improvement" The Migration code would walk through the component-load.xml to find customizations and see if it relates to the changes of the migration. The migration should at least say that the customization found is effected by the changes and show what is effected in the customization, if it can not actually modify the code. Also Test Cases for the "improvements" which includes Selenium for UIs be part of the "Improvement" Till ofbiz grows into this stature I doubt it will be more than a Developers playpen. Hans Bakker sent the following on 9/22/2010 5:37 AM: > Hi BJ, > > If you have contributions suitable for the general public, count me in. > I know how you feel, i have the same here too. > Again, create Jira issues with patches and sure, me, Jacques and others > will have a look at it. > > Regards, > Hans > |
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In reply to this post by Jacques Le Roux
time it takes to move an app to the next "improvement"
Jacques Le Roux sent the following on 9/22/2010 5:46 AM: > Just curious; what are/have been you main stumbling blocks? > > Jacques > > From: "BJ Freeman" <[hidden email]> >> I speak not as a voting member of ofbiz but one that has some 50 apps >> built on ofbiz. >> I doubt if I had know of the way improvements have been implemented >> and the work that it would take to upgrade all 50 apps I would have >> chose ofbiz. >> In short if you ever expect to have ofbiz be a main stay app for >> developers you need to be considerate of the time and effort they have >> expended to customize and how your "improvements" effect those efforts. >> >> I did not get into ofbiz to support developers upgrading my >> customization because someone thought their way was best before >> discussing it in the light of production system. >> I got into ofbiz because of the framework basically and a Idea that >> what I did would work for along time. >> >> At this point I have some serious thinking to do about the future of >> ofbiz in my efforts. >> >> >> ========================= >> BJ Freeman > > > |
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BJ,
That reply is not very informative. Also, your original message makes a lot of broad generalizations and it doesn't specify what changes are causing a problem and why. If you want things to improve, you will need to be more specific. -Adrian On 9/22/2010 1:18 PM, BJ Freeman wrote: > time it takes to move an app to the next "improvement" > > Jacques Le Roux sent the following on 9/22/2010 5:46 AM: >> Just curious; what are/have been you main stumbling blocks? >> >> Jacques >> >> From: "BJ Freeman" <[hidden email]> >>> I speak not as a voting member of ofbiz but one that has some 50 apps >>> built on ofbiz. >>> I doubt if I had know of the way improvements have been implemented >>> and the work that it would take to upgrade all 50 apps I would have >>> chose ofbiz. >>> In short if you ever expect to have ofbiz be a main stay app for >>> developers you need to be considerate of the time and effort they have >>> expended to customize and how your "improvements" effect those efforts. >>> >>> I did not get into ofbiz to support developers upgrading my >>> customization because someone thought their way was best before >>> discussing it in the light of production system. >>> I got into ofbiz because of the framework basically and a Idea that >>> what I did would work for along time. >>> >>> At this point I have some serious thinking to do about the future of >>> ofbiz in my efforts. >>> >>> >>> ========================= >>> BJ Freeman >> >> >> > > |
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In reply to this post by BJ Freeman
On 09/22/2010 06:42 AM, BJ Freeman wrote:
> I speak not as a voting member of ofbiz but one that has some 50 apps > built on ofbiz. What is your definition of app? An install of an application? In that case, we have 50+ server based installs. However, we only have a few actual custom applications. We just install those over and over. Our applications are easy to reuse; we have a cow/overlay feature. > I doubt if I had know of the way improvements have been implemented and > the work that it would take to upgrade all 50 apps I would have chose > ofbiz. > In short if you ever expect to have ofbiz be a main stay app for > developers you need to be considerate of the time and effort they have > expended to customize and how your "improvements" effect those efforts. > > I did not get into ofbiz to support developers upgrading my > customization because someone thought their way was best before > discussing it in the light of production system. > I got into ofbiz because of the framework basically and a Idea that what > I did would work for along time. > > At this point I have some serious thinking to do about the future of > ofbiz in my efforts. > > > ========================= > BJ Freeman > Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation > <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52> > Specialtymarket.com <http://www.specialtymarket.com/> > Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist > > Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man > |
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In reply to this post by Adrian Crum
Am it to gather by this that you can do a direct SVN update and all your
customization continue to work? say from 9.04 to 10.04 Adrian Crum sent the following on 9/22/2010 1:25 PM: > BJ, > > That reply is not very informative. Also, your original message makes a > lot of broad generalizations and it doesn't specify what changes are > causing a problem and why. > > If you want things to improve, you will need to be more specific. > > -Adrian > > On 9/22/2010 1:18 PM, BJ Freeman wrote: >> time it takes to move an app to the next "improvement" >> >> Jacques Le Roux sent the following on 9/22/2010 5:46 AM: >>> Just curious; what are/have been you main stumbling blocks? >>> >>> Jacques >>> >>> From: "BJ Freeman" <[hidden email]> >>>> I speak not as a voting member of ofbiz but one that has some 50 apps >>>> built on ofbiz. >>>> I doubt if I had know of the way improvements have been implemented >>>> and the work that it would take to upgrade all 50 apps I would have >>>> chose ofbiz. >>>> In short if you ever expect to have ofbiz be a main stay app for >>>> developers you need to be considerate of the time and effort they have >>>> expended to customize and how your "improvements" effect those efforts. >>>> >>>> I did not get into ofbiz to support developers upgrading my >>>> customization because someone thought their way was best before >>>> discussing it in the light of production system. >>>> I got into ofbiz because of the framework basically and a Idea that >>>> what I did would work for along time. >>>> >>>> At this point I have some serious thinking to do about the future of >>>> ofbiz in my efforts. >>>> >>>> >>>> ========================= >>>> BJ Freeman >>> >>> >>> >> >> > |
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On 09/22/2010 03:33 PM, BJ Freeman wrote:
> Am it to gather by this that you can do a direct SVN update and all your > customization continue to work? > say from 9.04 to 10.04 Ofbiz has never supported upgrades. I agree with BJ here. Database tables can change. Not all changes are automatic. Such changes are not listed in a simple place(in the source). Values in tables can change. No upgrade conversions are provided(again, in a simple place). To solve this, requires running older ofbiz on older database, doing a test upgrade to each and every new version, and then seeing what is different. This is a *very* hard problem, not easy to automate, and takes smart people lots of time. This is not something you can just force on the community. No one has sat down to do this very busy, hard work, so it hasn't yet been done. If you run trunk, then it is up to you to solve any per-version upgrade problems. However, official releases should really have appropriate, detailed, upgrade instructions. |
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In reply to this post by BJ Freeman
to further this I did state the problem as code changes to a component
and how they effect customization. to get more granular leads to discussion about that particular problem but does not address the migration problem for customizations. ========================= BJ Freeman Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52> Specialtymarket.com <http://www.specialtymarket.com/> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man BJ Freeman sent the following on 9/22/2010 1:33 PM: > Am it to gather by this that you can do a direct SVN update and all your > customization continue to work? > say from 9.04 to 10.04 > > Adrian Crum sent the following on 9/22/2010 1:25 PM: >> BJ, >> >> That reply is not very informative. Also, your original message makes a >> lot of broad generalizations and it doesn't specify what changes are >> causing a problem and why. >> >> If you want things to improve, you will need to be more specific. >> >> -Adrian >> >> On 9/22/2010 1:18 PM, BJ Freeman wrote: >>> time it takes to move an app to the next "improvement" >>> >>> Jacques Le Roux sent the following on 9/22/2010 5:46 AM: >>>> Just curious; what are/have been you main stumbling blocks? >>>> >>>> Jacques >>>> >>>> From: "BJ Freeman" <[hidden email]> >>>>> I speak not as a voting member of ofbiz but one that has some 50 apps >>>>> built on ofbiz. >>>>> I doubt if I had know of the way improvements have been implemented >>>>> and the work that it would take to upgrade all 50 apps I would have >>>>> chose ofbiz. >>>>> In short if you ever expect to have ofbiz be a main stay app for >>>>> developers you need to be considerate of the time and effort they have >>>>> expended to customize and how your "improvements" effect those >>>>> efforts. >>>>> >>>>> I did not get into ofbiz to support developers upgrading my >>>>> customization because someone thought their way was best before >>>>> discussing it in the light of production system. >>>>> I got into ofbiz because of the framework basically and a Idea that >>>>> what I did would work for along time. >>>>> >>>>> At this point I have some serious thinking to do about the future of >>>>> ofbiz in my efforts. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ========================= >>>>> BJ Freeman >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> > > |
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In reply to this post by Adam Heath-2
glad you see what I am speaking of.
the one thing I said was it would notify the customizer their code at sos and so needs to be changed. i agree that such migration automation can not cover all. however if every new "improvement" is done individually then the task is not how large, though not easy. i am not trying to force ofbiz community to do anything. I stated a opinion as a business man that uses ofbiz in his business and has 50 apps, currently. and as a business man first and a developer when necessary, if I can not find a way to reduce the overhead to migration, then I need to look for alternative. As such any business man in my position would not consider ofbiz a viable option. Adam Heath sent the following on 9/22/2010 1:38 PM: > On 09/22/2010 03:33 PM, BJ Freeman wrote: >> Am it to gather by this that you can do a direct SVN update and all your >> customization continue to work? >> say from 9.04 to 10.04 > > Ofbiz has never supported upgrades. I agree with BJ here. > > Database tables can change. Not all changes are automatic. Such changes > are not listed in a simple place(in the source). > > Values in tables can change. No upgrade conversions are provided(again, > in a simple place). > > To solve this, requires running older ofbiz on older database, doing a > test upgrade to each and every new version, and then seeing what is > different. This is a *very* hard problem, not easy to automate, and > takes smart people lots of time. This is not something you can just > force on the community. No one has sat down to do this very busy, hard > work, so it hasn't yet been done. > > If you run trunk, then it is up to you to solve any per-version upgrade > problems. > > However, official releases should really have appropriate, detailed, > upgrade instructions. > |
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In reply to this post by BJ Freeman
The only "customization" I do is a patch file that changes settings and
comments out unused applications. There have been a few times where the files being changed were updated in the trunk and I had to update my patch file accordingly. I keep custom applications in the hot-deploy folder - where they are unaffected by changes to the trunk. The only upgrade problem I ran into was in the database. Sometimes the database needs manual work to upgrade table structures or reload seed data, etc. -Adrian On 9/22/2010 1:33 PM, BJ Freeman wrote: > Am it to gather by this that you can do a direct SVN update and all your > customization continue to work? > say from 9.04 to 10.04 > > Adrian Crum sent the following on 9/22/2010 1:25 PM: >> BJ, >> >> That reply is not very informative. Also, your original message makes a >> lot of broad generalizations and it doesn't specify what changes are >> causing a problem and why. >> >> If you want things to improve, you will need to be more specific. >> >> -Adrian >> >> On 9/22/2010 1:18 PM, BJ Freeman wrote: >>> time it takes to move an app to the next "improvement" >>> >>> Jacques Le Roux sent the following on 9/22/2010 5:46 AM: >>>> Just curious; what are/have been you main stumbling blocks? >>>> >>>> Jacques >>>> >>>> From: "BJ Freeman" <[hidden email]> >>>>> I speak not as a voting member of ofbiz but one that has some 50 apps >>>>> built on ofbiz. >>>>> I doubt if I had know of the way improvements have been implemented >>>>> and the work that it would take to upgrade all 50 apps I would have >>>>> chose ofbiz. >>>>> In short if you ever expect to have ofbiz be a main stay app for >>>>> developers you need to be considerate of the time and effort they have >>>>> expended to customize and how your "improvements" effect those >>>>> efforts. >>>>> >>>>> I did not get into ofbiz to support developers upgrading my >>>>> customization because someone thought their way was best before >>>>> discussing it in the light of production system. >>>>> I got into ofbiz because of the framework basically and a Idea that >>>>> what I did would work for along time. >>>>> >>>>> At this point I have some serious thinking to do about the future of >>>>> ofbiz in my efforts. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ========================= >>>>> BJ Freeman >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> > > |
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I too keep my customizations out of the normal svn path so they don't
get changed. apparently I have different customizations than you do. let take a example: the customization routes to the party profile and expect a certain action and behavior. the party profile is changed in a way that the previous behavior is changed which effect the customization. Adrian Crum sent the following on 9/22/2010 1:52 PM: > The only "customization" I do is a patch file that changes settings and > comments out unused applications. There have been a few times where the > files being changed were updated in the trunk and I had to update my > patch file accordingly. > > I keep custom applications in the hot-deploy folder - where they are > unaffected by changes to the trunk. > > The only upgrade problem I ran into was in the database. Sometimes the > database needs manual work to upgrade table structures or reload seed > data, etc. > > -Adrian > > On 9/22/2010 1:33 PM, BJ Freeman wrote: >> Am it to gather by this that you can do a direct SVN update and all your >> customization continue to work? >> say from 9.04 to 10.04 >> >> Adrian Crum sent the following on 9/22/2010 1:25 PM: >>> BJ, >>> >>> That reply is not very informative. Also, your original message makes a >>> lot of broad generalizations and it doesn't specify what changes are >>> causing a problem and why. >>> >>> If you want things to improve, you will need to be more specific. >>> >>> -Adrian >>> >>> On 9/22/2010 1:18 PM, BJ Freeman wrote: >>>> time it takes to move an app to the next "improvement" >>>> >>>> Jacques Le Roux sent the following on 9/22/2010 5:46 AM: >>>>> Just curious; what are/have been you main stumbling blocks? >>>>> >>>>> Jacques >>>>> >>>>> From: "BJ Freeman" <[hidden email]> >>>>>> I speak not as a voting member of ofbiz but one that has some 50 apps >>>>>> built on ofbiz. >>>>>> I doubt if I had know of the way improvements have been implemented >>>>>> and the work that it would take to upgrade all 50 apps I would have >>>>>> chose ofbiz. >>>>>> In short if you ever expect to have ofbiz be a main stay app for >>>>>> developers you need to be considerate of the time and effort they >>>>>> have >>>>>> expended to customize and how your "improvements" effect those >>>>>> efforts. >>>>>> >>>>>> I did not get into ofbiz to support developers upgrading my >>>>>> customization because someone thought their way was best before >>>>>> discussing it in the light of production system. >>>>>> I got into ofbiz because of the framework basically and a Idea that >>>>>> what I did would work for along time. >>>>>> >>>>>> At this point I have some serious thinking to do about the future of >>>>>> ofbiz in my efforts. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ========================= >>>>>> BJ Freeman >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> > |
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In reply to this post by Adam Heath-2
From: "Adam Heath" <[hidden email]>
> On 09/22/2010 03:33 PM, BJ Freeman wrote: >> Am it to gather by this that you can do a direct SVN update and all your >> customization continue to work? >> say from 9.04 to 10.04 > > Ofbiz has never supported upgrades. I agree with BJ here. > > Database tables can change. Not all changes are automatic. Such > changes are not listed in a simple place(in the source). > > Values in tables can change. No upgrade conversions are > provided(again, in a simple place). Is this useless? https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBTECH/Revisions+Requiring+Data+Migration Jacques > To solve this, requires running older ofbiz on older database, doing a > test upgrade to each and every new version, and then seeing what is > different. This is a *very* hard problem, not easy to automate, and > takes smart people lots of time. This is not something you can just > force on the community. No one has sat down to do this very busy, > hard work, so it hasn't yet been done. > > If you run trunk, then it is up to you to solve any per-version > upgrade problems. > > However, official releases should really have appropriate, detailed, > upgrade instructions. > |
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On 09/22/2010 05:44 PM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
> From: "Adam Heath" <[hidden email]> >> On 09/22/2010 03:33 PM, BJ Freeman wrote: >>> Am it to gather by this that you can do a direct SVN update and all your >>> customization continue to work? >>> say from 9.04 to 10.04 >> >> Ofbiz has never supported upgrades. I agree with BJ here. >> >> Database tables can change. Not all changes are automatic. Such >> changes are not listed in a simple place(in the source). >> >> Values in tables can change. No upgrade conversions are >> provided(again, in a simple place). > > Is this useless? > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBTECH/Revisions+Requiring+Data+Migration Pretty much. Way to hard to follow. Too much information. Needs more automation. And I'm a fairly technical ofbiz guy. And where is this linked from? |
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On 09/22/2010 05:53 PM, Adam Heath wrote:
> On 09/22/2010 05:44 PM, Jacques Le Roux wrote: >> From: "Adam Heath" <[hidden email]> >>> On 09/22/2010 03:33 PM, BJ Freeman wrote: >>>> Am it to gather by this that you can do a direct SVN update and all >>>> your >>>> customization continue to work? >>>> say from 9.04 to 10.04 >>> >>> Ofbiz has never supported upgrades. I agree with BJ here. >>> >>> Database tables can change. Not all changes are automatic. Such >>> changes are not listed in a simple place(in the source). >>> >>> Values in tables can change. No upgrade conversions are >>> provided(again, in a simple place). >> >> Is this useless? >> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBTECH/Revisions+Requiring+Data+Migration >> > > Pretty much. Way to hard to follow. Too much information. Needs more > automation. > > And I'm a fairly technical ofbiz guy. And where is this linked from? I should rephrase that. That document is too techincal, even for those who are quite familiar with the internals of ofbiz. People just doing plain jane installs will have no idea how to deal with that document. What we need to do, is become stupid. Forget everything you know. Then try to read that. The other issue is when did ofbiz last *officially* release? Waiting too long to release gives *large* changes that have to be done manually. Plus, if someone(brainfood or bj) has based an install off of an svn *snapshot*, then we can't expect the project to help us much when doing upgrade conversions. |
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In reply to this post by Jacques Le Roux
What I see here is that it is not as easy to create an upgrade system for
this kind of project. Perhaps the nature of it, it's a good reason. Remember that Ofbiz is an ERP system and tries to cover as much as it can different businesses, so IMO it's not like a proprietary product or another kind of open source project where it is not a common practice to change the trunk code by everyone and also allows to easily install plugins, mods, extensions, etc. IMO, I can say that one good chance to achieve this is to separate the framework from the apps, already discussed in a lot of posts and I think it is strongly accepted by the community. This will get the ability to extract an important piece of code which I think is not regularly altered, at least in my case, I've modified some apps but never the framework. From my point of view, the hot-deploy works fine and it's fairly enough for a lot of customization purposes and maintain the trunk code untouched. But it seems to me that sometimes is not enough mostly when an adaptation of an existing app, concretely i18n enters the scene. For example I found to be very complicated to move the entire Accounting module, IMO the one that requires more i18n, since it is related with a lot of modules. In this case I have had to customize in-place. I have some ideas about that, but I prefer to discuss this in a proper post. BJ, I believe that your problem is related with the number of installations do you have/maintain so a little solution may be (if you aren't doing yet) the vendor drop technique ( http://svnbook.red-bean.com/en/1.5/svn.advanced.vendorbr.html). But I suppose it's only valid if you decided to use the trunk version from the beginning and kept up to date so often... On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 12:44 AM, Jacques Le Roux < [hidden email]> wrote: > From: "Adam Heath" <[hidden email]> > > On 09/22/2010 03:33 PM, BJ Freeman wrote: >> >>> Am it to gather by this that you can do a direct SVN update and all your >>> customization continue to work? >>> say from 9.04 to 10.04 >>> >> >> Ofbiz has never supported upgrades. I agree with BJ here. >> >> Database tables can change. Not all changes are automatic. Such changes >> are not listed in a simple place(in the source). >> >> Values in tables can change. No upgrade conversions are provided(again, >> in a simple place). >> > > Is this useless? > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBTECH/Revisions+Requiring+Data+Migration > > Jacques > > > To solve this, requires running older ofbiz on older database, doing a >> test upgrade to each and every new version, and then seeing what is >> different. This is a *very* hard problem, not easy to automate, and takes >> smart people lots of time. This is not something you can just force on the >> community. No one has sat down to do this very busy, hard work, so it >> hasn't yet been done. >> >> If you run trunk, then it is up to you to solve any per-version upgrade >> problems. >> >> However, official releases should really have appropriate, detailed, >> upgrade instructions. >> >> > -- ----- Jonatan Soto |
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In reply to this post by Jacques Le Roux
Yes I use it. thanks for your effort.
Let me explain further that when I say 50 apps I am not talking about installations but different applications, Like Real estate(5), Education(4), Film Industry(6), Restaurants(and bars) (6) the numbers in parentheses are the vertical apps in the class of app. So my focus is reducing man hours and of course overhead of maintenance. Jacques Le Roux sent the following on 9/22/2010 3:44 PM: > From: "Adam Heath" <[hidden email]> >> On 09/22/2010 03:33 PM, BJ Freeman wrote: >>> Am it to gather by this that you can do a direct SVN update and all your >>> customization continue to work? >>> say from 9.04 to 10.04 >> >> Ofbiz has never supported upgrades. I agree with BJ here. >> >> Database tables can change. Not all changes are automatic. Such >> changes are not listed in a simple place(in the source). >> >> Values in tables can change. No upgrade conversions are >> provided(again, in a simple place). > > Is this useless? > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBTECH/Revisions+Requiring+Data+Migration > > > Jacques > >> To solve this, requires running older ofbiz on older database, doing a >> test upgrade to each and every new version, and then seeing what is >> different. This is a *very* hard problem, not easy to automate, and >> takes smart people lots of time. This is not something you can just >> force on the community. No one has sat down to do this very busy, hard >> work, so it hasn't yet been done. >> >> If you run trunk, then it is up to you to solve any per-version >> upgrade problems. >> >> However, official releases should really have appropriate, detailed, >> upgrade instructions. >> > > |
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In reply to this post by jonatan soto
I disagree. every complicated process is made up of simple processes.
the level you approach it, is what makes it complicated. An I believe the process can be modeled and implemented. just as the tests are now, as limited as they are. what it takes is a commitment by each one that changes the code base to put their smarts in the direction of what does it take to get from here to there as far as migration. one way for instance is to use Diffs or even the patch itself as a basis for driving the migration. then is it a matter of tools to use the diffs and patches to run a check on customization. I do maintain my own SVN, I would not be this far if I did not. however it does not help to compare code that outside that of the ofbiz svn(component that are customized but not part of the code base of ofbiz) The bottom line, for a business, is overhead to maintain it hard cash. Jonatan Soto sent the following on 9/22/2010 5:00 PM: > What I see here is that it is not as easy to create an upgrade system for > this kind of project. Perhaps the nature of it, it's a good reason. Remember > that Ofbiz is an ERP system and tries to cover as much as it can different > businesses, so IMO it's not like a proprietary product or another kind of > open source project where it is not a common practice to change the trunk > code by everyone and also allows to easily install plugins, mods, > extensions, etc. > > IMO, I can say that one good chance to achieve this is to separate the > framework from the apps, already discussed in a lot of posts and I think it > is strongly accepted by the community. This will get the ability to extract > an important piece of code which I think is not regularly altered, at least > in my case, I've modified some apps but never the framework. >> From my point of view, the hot-deploy works fine and it's fairly enough for > a lot of customization purposes and maintain the trunk code untouched. But > it seems to me that sometimes is not enough mostly when an adaptation of an > existing app, concretely i18n enters the scene. For example I found to be > very complicated to move the entire Accounting module, IMO the one that > requires more i18n, since it is related with a lot of modules. In this case > I have had to customize in-place. I have some ideas about that, but I prefer > to discuss this in a proper post. > > BJ, I believe that your problem is related with the number of installations > do you have/maintain so a little solution may be (if you aren't doing yet) > the vendor drop technique ( > http://svnbook.red-bean.com/en/1.5/svn.advanced.vendorbr.html). But I > suppose it's only valid if you decided to use the trunk version from the > beginning and kept up to date so often... > > On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 12:44 AM, Jacques Le Roux< > [hidden email]> wrote: > >> From: "Adam Heath"<[hidden email]> >> >> On 09/22/2010 03:33 PM, BJ Freeman wrote: >>> >>>> Am it to gather by this that you can do a direct SVN update and all your >>>> customization continue to work? >>>> say from 9.04 to 10.04 >>>> >>> >>> Ofbiz has never supported upgrades. I agree with BJ here. >>> >>> Database tables can change. Not all changes are automatic. Such changes >>> are not listed in a simple place(in the source). >>> >>> Values in tables can change. No upgrade conversions are provided(again, >>> in a simple place). >>> >> >> Is this useless? >> >> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBTECH/Revisions+Requiring+Data+Migration >> >> Jacques >> >> >> To solve this, requires running older ofbiz on older database, doing a >>> test upgrade to each and every new version, and then seeing what is >>> different. This is a *very* hard problem, not easy to automate, and takes >>> smart people lots of time. This is not something you can just force on the >>> community. No one has sat down to do this very busy, hard work, so it >>> hasn't yet been done. >>> >>> If you run trunk, then it is up to you to solve any per-version upgrade >>> problems. >>> >>> However, official releases should really have appropriate, detailed, >>> upgrade instructions. >>> >>> >> > > |
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Hi BJ,
If we customize an application by configuration, upgrades are easier. If we customize by replacing the codes, upgrades will not be possible. This means functions / features in OFBiz should be able to turn on / off. Regards, James
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