Dev - Discuss possible integration with DWR

[BJ Freeman]

http://www.cloudgarden.com/jigloo/index.html it is not free.
I am not sure if the latest version still has this legacy feature.
the UI is saved as an XML file. Since this is swing or SWT that are some
features that are not supported by ofbiz

Vinay Agarwal sent the following on 2/12/06 7:49 PM:

> Bjfree (sorry don't know your name),
> I am very interested in knowing what tools you use for WYSIWYG design and
> then to convert of OFBiz widgets. I have been looking around but haven't
> found a good solution yet.
> Vinay Agarwal
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
> Behalf Of bjfree
> Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 6:36 PM
> To: OFBiz Project Development Discussion
> Subject: Re: [OFBiz] Dev - Discuss possible integration with DWR
>
> I know this is sort of off the wall, I use and tool that converts the
> XML created by my WYSIWYG tool to ofbiz widgets.
>
> Actuatlly it is a generic XML conversion tool. it requires the input and
> and conversion XML which generates the output XML.
>
> i also use it to convert non ofbiz xml files that I have to import.
>
> Andrew Sykes sent the following on 2/12/06 1:33 PM:
>
>>Brett,
>>
>>When you suggest "we could define a common XML format" for the AJAX
>>stuff, wouldn't this mean each integration would have to have a chunk of
>>javascript to translate to the form it expected?
>>
>>If that was the case, is there any debate over what this format should
>>be, i.e. shouldn't it just follow the standard entity XML format?
>
>  
> _______________________________________________
> Dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/dev
>  
> _______________________________________________
> Dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/dev
>

 
_______________________________________________
Dev mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/dev

[Vinay Agarwal]

Bjfree,

In which way does this provide most benefit--speed of implementation or
better looking GUI? While I am looking for both, I need something for speed
immediately.

Regards,
Vinay Agarwal

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
Behalf Of bjfree
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 10:35 PM
To: OFBiz Project Development Discussion
Subject: Re: [OFBiz] Dev - Discuss possible integration with DWR

http://www.cloudgarden.com/jigloo/index.html it is not free.
I am not sure if the latest version still has this legacy feature.
the UI is saved as an XML file. Since this is swing or SWT that are some
features that are not supported by ofbiz


 
_______________________________________________
Dev mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/dev

[BJ Freeman]

The best, for speed, is to learn the widgets XML, in my opinion.

Vinay Agarwal sent the following on 2/13/06 7:40 AM:

> Bjfree,
>
> In which way does this provide most benefit--speed of implementation or
> better looking GUI? While I am looking for both, I need something for speed
> immediately.
>
> Regards,
> Vinay Agarwal
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
> Behalf Of bjfree
> Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 10:35 PM
> To: OFBiz Project Development Discussion
> Subject: Re: [OFBiz] Dev - Discuss possible integration with DWR
>
> http://www.cloudgarden.com/jigloo/index.html it is not free.
> I am not sure if the latest version still has this legacy feature.
> the UI is saved as an XML file. Since this is swing or SWT that are some
> features that are not supported by ofbiz
>
>
>  
> _______________________________________________
> Dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/dev
>

 
_______________________________________________
Dev mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/dev

[Brett]

Ruth,

I can't speak for QooXdoo, but with Laszlo it is possible to embed in
standard HTML pages (not trivial but possible).  In the end Laszlo
compiles *.lzx files to a Flash *.swf files, so in theory you could
include the SWF file just like many people do with Flash marketing ads
that are embedded in portals.

You are correct that Laszlo does not easily integrate with outside
HTML content as it is a plugin technology.  For this reason it would
be difficult to replace all ofbiz applications using laszlo and I
wouldn't recommend that.  I just think that in cases where sorting and
pagination are complex Laszlo could be very useful.  For this reason,
I would like it if there were simple GUI components like list grids
and forms that could be separate from any specific application and a
simple example of how to plug them into an ofbiz screen.  Then users
could customize them how they want.

Thanks for the feedback,


Brett

On 2/12/06, Ruth Hoffman <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Brett:
> I also played around with Openlaszlo and QooXdoo
> (http://qooxdoo.oss.schlund.de/). I couldn't figure out how to embed
> these in OFBiz pages. Seemed like in both cases it was either do the
> entire page in OpenLaszlo/QooXdoo or with OFBiz. There was no way to,
> say build a page template with a header and footer using OFBiz and then
> embed a content section built using one of these tools. Is that what you
> found? Or did I not try hard enough? (Because I really liked both of
> these tools.)
>
> TIA
> Ruth
> Brett Palmer wrote:
>
> >We are looking at a similar solution with Laszlo
> >(http://www.openlaszlo.org).  One thing that would help is if we could
> >define a common XML format that would be returned from the Control
> >Servlet.  The Control Servlet then becomes more of a security monitor
> >than a model-view-controller since the view is essentially done on the
> >client.
> >
> >Here are some other AJAX projects in various levels of development:
> >
> >http://cpaint.booleansystems.com/
> >http://openrico.org/rico/home.page
> >http://www.modernmethod.com/sajax/
> >http://www.tersus.org/
> >http://glm-ajax.sourceforge.net/
> >http://sourceforge.net/projects/ajax-simple
> >
> >
> >I think one key component that we need to address is developing widget
> >based components that developers can easily integrate into ofbiz
> >applications.  So far the only web based UI that I have found easy to
> >integrate with ofbiz is the ofbiz Screen Widgets.  I think Screen
> >widgets work very well at quickly getting functionality working.
> >
> >I think Laszlo is another technology that could be used to create
> >custom widgets that  could be easily reused.  As I mentioned we are
> >just starting to investigate this technology.  I will keep the group
> >posted on what we find.
> >
> >
> >Brett
> >
> >
> >
> >On 2/8/06, David E. Jones <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>One way or another the AJAX requests coming in from the browser need
> >>to be processed and logic run and the results returned. How we do
> >>that is still up in the air. I guess DWR uses a servlet by default,
> >>but we would need to wrap it some way so that the services to be used
> >>can be configured just like in the Control Servlet, in fact it should
> >>go trough the Control Servlet.
> >>
> >>-David
> >>
> >>
> >>On Feb 8, 2006, at 10:34 AM, Andrew Sykes wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>Ruth,
> >>>
> >>>Can you explain in a little more detail why you think the DWR route is
> >>>better than simply creating a handler that can route requests to a
> >>>specific service as I suggested previously.
> >>>
> >>>Sorry if this seems like a silly question, I'm just trying to get my
> >>>head around the advantage that DWR provides...
> >>>--
> >>>Kind Regards
> >>>Andrew Sykes <[hidden email]>
> >>>Sykes Development Ltd
> >>>http://www.sykesdevelopment.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>_______________________________________________
> >>>Dev mailing list
> >>>[hidden email]
> >>>http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/dev
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>Dev mailing list
> >>[hidden email]
> >>http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/dev
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Dev mailing list
> >[hidden email]
> >http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/dev
> >
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/dev
>

 
_______________________________________________
Dev mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/dev

[Andrew Sykes]

Brett,

Can I clarify, are you proposing that OFBiz would return HTML rather
than XML?

Can't XML be transformed by the client? Wouldn't this reduce the burden
from OFBiz a bit?
--
Kind Regards
Andrew Sykes <[hidden email]>
Sykes Development Ltd
http://www.sykesdevelopment.com

 
_______________________________________________
Dev mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/dev

[David E. Jones]

I agree with this. Once you know how the files and tools fit together  
it is hard get any faster with any sort of tool. Because most people  
who regularly work on and contribute to OFBiz are in this position  
there has been little impetus to create more visual or "helpful" tools.

One thing we have discussed that would help speed for even the very  
experienced is a navigation tool as an IDE plugin that could draw  
some sort of picture of resources related to the current artifact.  
For example, when looking at a screen definition it could create a  
graph showing everything else related to that: controller view defs  
and from there request defs and from there event defs and service  
defs; on the other side within the screen it refers to services which  
refer to implementations and entities, and to forms which refer to  
services, entities, and so on. In addition to this graph and being  
able to click to navigate it would help give a more clear picture of  
how things fit together and what already exists. It would also make  
it possible to identify missing artifacts and perhaps have links to  
add them based on template and options or some such.

-David


On Feb 13, 2006, at 9:12 AM, bjfree wrote:

> The best, for speed, is to learn the widgets XML, in my opinion.
>
> Vinay Agarwal sent the following on 2/13/06 7:40 AM:
>> Bjfree,
>>
>> In which way does this provide most benefit--speed of  
>> implementation or
>> better looking GUI? While I am looking for both, I need something  
>> for speed
>> immediately.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Vinay Agarwal
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [hidden email] [mailto:dev-
>> [hidden email]] On
>> Behalf Of bjfree
>> Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 10:35 PM
>> To: OFBiz Project Development Discussion
>> Subject: Re: [OFBiz] Dev - Discuss possible integration with DWR
>>
>> http://www.cloudgarden.com/jigloo/index.html it is not free.
>> I am not sure if the latest version still has this legacy feature.
>> the UI is saved as an XML file. Since this is swing or SWT that  
>> are some
>> features that are not supported by ofbiz
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Dev mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/dev
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/dev

 
_______________________________________________
Dev mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/dev

[Brett]

Andrew,

Sorry, my previous description of Laszlo probably confused this
subject of HTML and XML.  If you embed a laszlo component in HTML the
communication with the server would go something like the following:

1. User makes normal http request.   Ofbiz sends back a regular HTML
page with a Laszlo/Flash SWF file embedded into the page.

2. The HTML page and the Flash widget render on in the browser window.

3. The Laszlo/Flash widget then send a request back to the server for
XML data to populate itself.

4. The server receives the request and send XML data back to the
Laszlo/Flash widget

5. The data is then displayed in the Laszlo/Flash widget with all the
default functionality of the widget.

What I am describing above is really like we use to have with
client/server types of applications olny now they are available in the
browser with plugins like flash.  The drawback of this approach is
that the widget inside the HTML page is isolated and cannot access
data  from other elements in the page (unlike an AJAX application).

Hope that clarified my previous post.


Brett

On 2/13/06, Andrew Sykes <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Brett,
>
> Can I clarify, are you proposing that OFBiz would return HTML rather
> than XML?
>
> Can't XML be transformed by the client? Wouldn't this reduce the burden
> from OFBiz a bit?
> --
> Kind Regards
> Andrew Sykes <[hidden email]>
> Sykes Development Ltd
> http://www.sykesdevelopment.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/dev
>

 
_______________________________________________
Dev mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/dev

[Brett]

What I meant to suggest is that since most of these technologies like
AJAX and Laszlo can parse XML pretty easily, it would be nice if we
defined a common XML output for all requests.  Specifically, I would
like it if we could serialize the results of a service call into XML.
That way the client programmer would just have to refer to a service
and know the expected results back from the service definition.

The ofbiz controller allows you to call an ofbiz service directly
which is what I am proposing we could do with AJAX/Laszlo like UI
components.


Brett



On 2/12/06, Andrew Sykes <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Brett,
>
> When you suggest "we could define a common XML format" for the AJAX
> stuff, wouldn't this mean each integration would have to have a chunk of
> javascript to translate to the form it expected?
>
> If that was the case, is there any debate over what this format should
> be, i.e. shouldn't it just follow the standard entity XML format?
> --
> Kind Regards
> Andrew Sykes <[hidden email]>
> Sykes Development Ltd
> http://www.sykesdevelopment.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/dev
>

 
_______________________________________________
Dev mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/dev

[Andrew Sykes]

Brett,

Aren't we already half-way there with this, there is an XML format for
storing RuntimeData which handles Maps, perhaps this same format could
be used for the result?

Of course each AJAX implementation would still have to be extended to
deal with this format coming back (javascript/actionscript?).

I can imagine that the more generic the schema, the more painful it
would be to use with any specific AJAX implementation. Perhaps it would
be better just to choose one or two specific AJAX implementations and
focus on them (one javascript and one actionscript?).

If attention was focused, perhaps it would make it more likely that
progress could be made.
--
Kind Regards
Andrew Sykes <[hidden email]>
Sykes Development Ltd
http://www.sykesdevelopment.com

 
_______________________________________________
Dev mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/dev

[Brett]

Andrew,

Yes, I think that would work.  I haven't looked at that code yet, but
I remember Andy mentioning it a few weeks ago as something that could
do what I was asking.

I agree that a focused solution would be good especially since there
are so many AJAX projects out there.  As for Laszlo I think it would
be better to make standalone components that developers and
integrators can use without polluting the current ofbiz applications
with plugins that everyone may not like.


Brett

On 2/13/06, Andrew Sykes <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Brett,
>
> Aren't we already half-way there with this, there is an XML format for
> storing RuntimeData which handles Maps, perhaps this same format could
> be used for the result?
>
> Of course each AJAX implementation would still have to be extended to
> deal with this format coming back (javascript/actionscript?).
>
> I can imagine that the more generic the schema, the more painful it
> would be to use with any specific AJAX implementation. Perhaps it would
> be better just to choose one or two specific AJAX implementations and
> focus on them (one javascript and one actionscript?).
>
> If attention was focused, perhaps it would make it more likely that
> progress could be made.
> --
> Kind Regards
> Andrew Sykes <[hidden email]>
> Sykes Development Ltd
> http://www.sykesdevelopment.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/dev
>

 
_______________________________________________
Dev mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/dev

[BJ Freeman]

In all the discussion about widget and integration of display formats, I
think it would be constructive, to revisit the Content module. Have a
developer Role that could use it.

The goes along with David plugin Idea to atleast generate how a widget
would look.


 
_______________________________________________
Dev mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/dev

[byersa]

bjfree wrote:

>In all the discussion about widget and integration of display formats, I
>think it would be constructive, to revisit the Content module. Have a
>developer Role that could use it.
>
>The goes along with David plugin Idea to atleast generate how a widget
>would look.
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Dev mailing list
>[hidden email]
>http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/dev
>
>  
>

BJ,

I have always thought that the Content module needed more discussion and
direction. I would like to know more about what you have in mind. What
do you mean by "developer Role that could use it".

There are probably things hidden in it that have not been made known.
For instance, there is a strong permission granting system in place that
could be used to build systems that need to grant varying levels of
access. Certainly, it would be nice to have a non-programmer CMS webapp.

-Al
 
_______________________________________________
Dev mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/dev

[BJ Freeman]

The developer role would be for developing module level pages to keep
people from created files that could circumvent the security already set
up for the backend pages.

where the other roles would be doing Content for the Web, like ecommerce.
So it can serve both.
since the CMS already has an WYSIWYG function, this can be expanded to
view widgets.

I am focusing on using the Content to create uploads to other Web stores
outside of ofbiz. I see storing the content as XML and using XLST to
create the WYSIWYG display.
I really have not gotten into this deeply, yet.


Al Byers sent the following on 2/14/06 2:54 PM:

> bjfree wrote:
>
>
>>In all the discussion about widget and integration of display formats, I
>>think it would be constructive, to revisit the Content module. Have a
>>developer Role that could use it.
>>
>>The goes along with David plugin Idea to atleast generate how a widget
>>would look.
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Dev mailing list
>>[hidden email]
>>http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/dev
>>
>>
>>
>
> BJ,
>
> I have always thought that the Content module needed more discussion and
> direction. I would like to know more about what you have in mind. What
> do you mean by "developer Role that could use it".
>
> There are probably things hidden in it that have not been made known.
> For instance, there is a strong permission granting system in place that
> could be used to build systems that need to grant varying levels of
> access. Certainly, it would be nice to have a non-programmer CMS webapp.
>
> -Al
>  
> _______________________________________________
> Dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/dev
>

 
_______________________________________________
Dev mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/dev